Joe Rogan: The Questions Atheism Can't Answer

Summary

The video script discusses the philosophical implications of the Big Bang theory and the concept of a multiverse. It delves into Fred Hoyle's objections to the Big Bang and his development of the steady-state model, which was later refuted by cosmic background radiation evidence. The conversation explores the fine-tuning of the universe's parameters, which some interpret as evidence of a designer, while others propose the multiverse theory as an alternative explanation. The script also touches on the challenges of faith and the resistance to the idea of a divine authority, suggesting that the multiverse theory may be more appealing to those who reject the concept of God's sovereignty.

Takeaways

• 🧬 The script discusses the concept of the Big Bang and its criticism by Fred Hoyle, who favored the steady-state model over a universe with a beginning.
• 🌌 Hoyle's steady-state model, which proposed an eternal universe, was later disproven by evidence such as the cosmic background radiation.
• 🤝 The speaker had personal encounters with key proponents of the steady-state model, including Hermann Bondi and Thomas Gold.
• 🔬 Fred Hoyle's later life saw a shift in his worldview due to the discovery of fine-tuning parameters in the universe, leading him to a quasi-theistic perspective.
• 🌟 The phenomenon of fine-tuning refers to the precise balance of physical constants and parameters that allow for the existence of life and the universe as we know it.
• 🤔 The script raises questions about the implications of our current understanding of physics and cosmology, and how it might evolve in the next 100 years.
• 🌍 It explores the idea of a multiverse as an alternative explanation to fine-tuning, suggesting that our universe's life-friendly conditions may not be as improbable if many universes exist.
• 🔮 The multiverse theory is seen by some as a counterargument to the fine-tuner argument, proposing that our universe's specific conditions are a result of chance among many universes.
• 💭 Both the fine-tuner and multiverse hypotheses require a level of faith, as neither can provide the concrete evidence that skeptics demand for the existence of God or the physical reality of other universes.
• 🛠 The script uses analogies like a well-designed engine or recipe to illustrate the intuitive appeal of the fine-tuner argument, suggesting design implies a designer.
• 📜 It also touches on the philosophical and ethical implications of an intelligent designer, including the concept of authority and the resistance some people have to the idea of being under divine authority.

Q & A

What was Fred Hoyle's objection to the Big Bang theory?

Fred Hoyle objected to the Big Bang theory because he believed that 'nothing comes from nothing,' and he rejected the idea that the physical universe came from nothing. He also felt that the Big Bang theory was too similar to the Genesis account in the Bible, which he detested.

What is the steady state model proposed by Fred Hoyle?

The steady state model proposed by Fred Hoyle is the idea of a past eternal universe, which suggests that the universe has no beginning or end and has been existing infinitely. This model was later refuted by the discovery of cosmic background radiation.

What evidence led to the rejection of the steady state model?

The discovery of cosmic background radiation provided evidence that the universe had a beginning, which contradicted the steady state model's claim of an eternal universe. This evidence led to the rejection of the steady state model in favor of the Big Bang theory.

What is the concept of fine-tuning in the universe?

The concept of fine-tuning refers to the phenomenon where multiple parameters in the universe fall within very narrow tolerances, which are necessary for the existence of stable galaxies, basic chemistry, and life. If these parameters were slightly different, life and the universe as we know it would not be possible.

How did Fred Hoyle's discovery of the carbon resonance level lead to his reconsideration of a theistic worldview?

Fred Hoyle discovered a special resonance level necessary for the formation of carbon, which is essential for life. This discovery, along with the realization of other finely tuned parameters in the universe, led him to consider that a 'super intellect' might have designed the universe to make life possible, moving him towards a quasi-theistic worldview.

What is the multiverse theory and how does it relate to the fine-tuning argument?

The multiverse theory suggests that our universe is just one of an infinite number of universes, each with different laws and constants of physics. It posits that the fine-tuning we observe in our universe is not improbable because there are so many universes that at least one would have life-friendly conditions. This theory is often seen as an alternative to the fine-tuning argument for a designer.

What is the observer selection effect mentioned in the script?

The observer selection effect is the idea that we observe a universe that is conducive to our existence because we are observers within it. If we were in a universe that was not life-friendly, we would not be here to observe it, which makes it seem as though our universe is special by chance.

What are the implications of the fine-tuner argument for ethics and human dignity?

The fine-tuner argument suggests the existence of an intelligent designer, which can provide a basis for ethics, human rights, and human dignity. It implies that love, thoughts, and other immaterial aspects of life have meaning and purpose within the context of a designed universe.

Why might some people find the multiverse theory more appealing than the idea of a fine-tuner?

Some people may find the multiverse theory more appealing because it does not require the acceptance of a personal intelligence or authority, such as God. The idea of God implies accountability and responsibility, which can be uncomfortable for those who prefer to avoid the concept of divine authority.

What does C.S. Lewis's statement about desiring a 'Heavenly grandfather' rather than a 'Heavenly Father' suggest about human attitudes towards God?

C.S. Lewis's statement suggests that people often prefer a divine figure that is nurturing and indulgent, providing comfort and pleasure without demanding anything in return. This reflects a reluctance to accept a God who has authority and expects moral and ethical behavior from us.

Outlines

00:00

🌌 The Big Bang and Steady State Debate

This paragraph discusses the contrasting views on the origins of the universe, focusing on the objections of Fred Hoyle to the Big Bang theory. Hoyle, a proponent of the steady state model, believed in an eternal universe and criticized the Big Bang for implying a creation from 'nothing,' which he found preposterous. The paragraph also touches upon the cosmic background radiation's role in debunking the steady state model and the evolution of Hoyle's views towards a quasi-theistic world view due to the discovery of fine-tuning parameters. It raises questions about the limitations of our current understanding and the potential for future scientific advancements, hinting at the concept of multiverses.

05:01

🔬 The Phenomenon of Fine-Tuning and the Multiverse Hypothesis

This paragraph delves into the concept of fine-tuning in the universe, where certain parameters are precisely set to allow for the existence of life and stable galaxies. It references Fred Hoyle's reconsideration of his atheistic stance due to the evidence of fine-tuning, leading him to suggest a 'super intellect' behind the design of physics and chemistry. The paragraph contrasts this with the multiverse hypothesis, which posits that our universe's fine-tuning is not evidence of design but a result of being one of an immense number of universes with varying conditions. It discusses the observer selection effect and the philosophical implications of both the fine-tuner and multiverse theories, highlighting the role of faith in the absence of definitive evidence.

10:03

🛡 The Implications of Design and the Appeal of the Multiverse

The final paragraph explores the implications of an intelligent designer, suggesting that it provides a foundation for ethics, human rights, and the existence of immaterial concepts like love and thought. It contrasts this with the discomfort some feel with the idea of divine authority, which challenges the notion of personal autonomy. The paragraph also discusses C.S. Lewis's observation on the human desire for a benevolent but non-authoritative higher power. It concludes by suggesting that the appeal of the multiverse theory may stem from a resistance to the idea of divine authority, reflecting on the human tendency to prefer theories that align with personal beliefs rather than objective evidence.

Keywords

💡Big Bang

The Big Bang theory posits that the universe began from a singularity, a point of infinite density, around 13.8 billion years ago, which expanded to create all matter and energy. In the video, it is discussed as a 'miracle' event that some, like Fred Hoyle, initially rejected because it seemed to suggest something from nothing, which clashed with both scientific and atheistic views.

💡Steady State Model

The Steady State Model is an alternative theory to the Big Bang, proposing that the universe has always existed in a constant state without a beginning. Fred Hoyle, a proponent of this model, believed it was more logical than the Big Bang until it was refuted by evidence such as the cosmic background radiation.

💡Fine-Tuning

Fine-tuning refers to the precise conditions necessary for life to exist in the universe, such as specific gravitational and electromagnetic forces. The video discusses how these exact conditions led Fred Hoyle and other scientists to consider the possibility of a 'fine tuner' or intelligent designer.

💡Cosmic Background Radiation

Cosmic Background Radiation is the thermal radiation left over from the Big Bang, discovered in the 1960s. This discovery provided strong evidence against the Steady State Model and supported the Big Bang theory, influencing the scientific community's acceptance of the universe's origins.

💡Multiverse

The Multiverse theory suggests the existence of multiple, possibly infinite, universes with varying laws of physics. It is presented as an alternative explanation to the fine-tuning argument, proposing that we live in one of the few universes where conditions happened to be right for life.

💡Observer Selection Effect

The Observer Selection Effect posits that our observations are biased by our existence; we can only observe a universe where conditions allow for observers like us. This concept is used to counter the fine-tuning argument by suggesting that we shouldn't be surprised to find ourselves in a life-permitting universe.

💡Fred Hoyle

Fred Hoyle was a British astrophysicist who initially rejected the Big Bang theory in favor of the Steady State Model. His work on the fine-tuning of carbon production in stars eventually led him to consider the possibility of a superintelligent designer.

💡Intelligent Design

Intelligent Design is the belief that certain features of the universe and living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process. The video discusses this in the context of the fine-tuning argument, suggesting that the precise conditions necessary for life point to a designer.

💡Provisional Science

Provisional Science acknowledges that scientific conclusions are always subject to change with new evidence. This concept is emphasized in the video, highlighting the necessity of being open to new data and interpretations, such as the shift from the Steady State Model to the Big Bang theory.

💡Goldilocks Zone

The Goldilocks Zone refers to the habitable zone around a star where conditions are 'just right' for life. This metaphor is used in the video to describe the narrow range of conditions in the universe that allow for life, supporting the fine-tuning argument.

Highlights

Terrence's humorous take on science's reliance on the Big Bang as a singular miracle.

Fred Hoyle's objection to the Big Bang theory, viewing it as preposterous and contrary to the laws of conservation.

Hoyle's development of the steady-state model as an alternative to the Big Bang, later refuted by cosmic background radiation.

Personal encounters with key figures of the steady-state model, including Bondi and Hoyle, revealing their perspectives on the theory's validity.

Hoyle's eventual shift towards a quasi-theistic worldview due to the discovery of fine-tuning parameters.

The unexpected evidence for a beginning to the universe challenging materialistic views.

The evolution of understanding in physics over the past century and speculation about future advancements.

The concept of multiple universes as an alternative explanation to fine-tuning and its implications for the existence of God.

Hoyle's investigation into the abundance of carbon in the universe and its significance for life.

The phenomenon of fine-tuning, where multiple parameters in the universe fall within narrow tolerances necessary for life.

Hoyle's conclusion that the fine-tuning of the universe suggests the existence of a 'super intellect'.

The comparison between the fine-tuner argument and the multiverse theory as competing explanations for the universe's order.

The role of faith in both theistic design and the multiverse theories, and the lack of concrete evidence for either.

The implications of an intelligent designer for ethics, human rights, and the existence of immaterial concepts like love and thoughts.

C.S. Lewis's perspective on the desire for a 'Heavenly grandfather' versus a 'Heavenly Father' and the resistance to divine authority.

The appeal of the multiverse theory as a way to avoid the concept of divine authority and the responsibility it entails.

Transcripts

Terrence we kind of had a very funny

thing that he said about science he said

science wants you to believe that it's

all about measurement and reason if you

allow them one miracle that one

Miracle's the Big Bang Yes that all

things come from the most Preposterous

idea ever yeah that everything came from

nothing in one big miracle that's right

I completely

this was this was her Fred hoyle's

objection to the Big Bang he was he said

he was a democracy and he didn't believe

and he said nothing comes from nothing

and I simply refused to believe that

that the physical Universe came from

nothing physical and moreover he said it

smacks of the Genesis account which he

detested and so he rejected the big bang

and formulated this steady state model

by the way really quick that steady

state model that he's talking about is

the idea of a past Eternal Universe

which modern science has basically now

I'll totally debunked just context

um that was later I think decisively

refuted by the discovery of the cosmic

background radiation his uh it happens

I've had funny coincidental meetings

with Hoyle Hermann Bondi and Thomas gold

all three of the The Architects of the

steady state model I met Bondi and Hoyle

when I was a PhD Student in Cambridge

and Hoyle held on to his dying day for

the the steady state but uh Bondi uh

actually we had a conversation about it

and he said that that well it turned out

that it was a brilliant idea it was a

beautiful idea just that it turned out

that everything about it was wrong and

he rejected it so uh but uh later Hoyle

had his own conversion to a kind of

quasi-theistic world view because of his

Discovery the fine-tuning parameters but

the the point is that the materialists

did not expect

to have this evidence for the beginning

Hoyle thought that you know the laws of

physics were the the

first law of conservation of matter and

energy

matter and energy are neither created

nor destroyed except at the big bang

and he didn't like that but eventually I

think the physics Community came around

there were so many indicators of that

beginning event now again as we're

discussing detection methods and our

ability to understand things is so

radically different from 1920 100 years

ago

what is it going to be like 100 years

from now is this they're going to be I

mean are we making assumptions based on

very limited data it's a lot of great

question for us but it seems fairly

limited given the scope of not just this

universe but then the concept of

multiverses like what is what are your

thoughts of this concept of multiple

universes I'd love to talk about the

multi infinite yeah I'm glad you're glad

you raised it uh and this also this also

connects to uh the the uh the Fred Hoyle

story which is fascinating

um again with the Proviso

science is necessarily provisional and

we of course always have to be open to

new data right

um but

um the trend lines

I think are are the things that are

really interesting

uh so there's this Hoyles let's start

with oil and then we'll get to

Multiverse okay so oil is

um great astrophysicist he's thinking

about carbon

and he realizes that carbon has this

unique property of being able to make

long chain-like molecules and long

chain-like molecules and therefore are

capable of storing information and we

need information to build so specified

structures in particular

living systems so he's trying to explain

the abundance of carbon in the universe

and he thinks of four or five different

ways that won't work and finally he

comes up a way that would work and long

story short it turns out for that that

um way of building carbon chemically to

work it has to do with combining uh

simpler

uh

what are called nucleons uh smaller

atoms to get the carbon molecule there

has to be a special resonance level for

the carbon molecule special way it sings

it has a certain energy level that that

causes it to

uh uh sing at a certain frequency turns

out the frequency he predicts which

would be necessary to explain the origin

of carbon in the universe uh

exists within a particular form of

carbon and they determine this at

Caltech but then that turns out to be

the the the the the tip of an of a

deeper Iceberg of a whole series of

other things in the universe that would

have to be just right to make this

formation of carbon possible the

gravitational force would have to it

when inside Stars the gravity couldn't

be too strong too weak it's

electromagnetic force couldn't be too

strong or too weak the ratio between

them couldn't be too strong or too weak

everything fell in this sweet spot this

kind of Goldilocks zone where um and we

now we now call this the phenomenon of

fine tuning that there are multiple

parameters in the universe that fall

Within These very narrow tolerances

outside of which

not only life would be impossible but

stable galaxies and even basic chemistry

would be impossible

and so that is to say even to get the

evolutionary process going you would

have to have all these beautifully

finely tuned parameters in place

and so oil starts having a rethink about

this and he's a staunch atheist

scientific atheist materialist but he

ends up

concluding that fine-tuning points to

some kind of a fine tuner and he's

quoted as saying that the best data we

have suggests that a super intellect has

monkeyed with physics and chemistry in

order to make life possible

and so he moves to this sort of

rudimentary theistic position in his in

his philosophy or his worldview now a

lot of other physicists have come to the

same conclusion sir John polkinghorn

great Cambridge physicist had a late in

life conversion religious conversion it

was partially predicated on his

awareness as a physicist of the evidence

for the universe as a setup job the

Goldilocks universe is some physicists

who called it

um so that's kind of as Hoyle said kind

of Common Sense interpretation when we

see other systems that are finally tuned

like a French recipe or an internal

combustion engine what we mean by

fine-tuning is an ensemble of improbable

parameters that work together to

accomplish some remarkable outcome or

functional functional or remarkable

outcome that's what if you see a

internal combustion engine you think it

was engineered because it's finely tuned

so common sense

the contrary argument to that the main

one there have been others but not even

most secular physicists regard them as

compelling anymore the main contrary

argument has been the idea of the

Multiverse that yes our universe has

this array of jointly improbable for

improbable parameters that are in that

sweet spot

but we just happen to be the lucky one

because there's a gabillion other

universes out there

and with different combinations of the

laws and constants of physics and

different initial conditions at the

beginning of those universes so all

those things that were just right in our

universe are yes extremely improbable

but there's so many other universes that

that that that that that the probability

of a universe with that set of

life-friendly conditions arising

somewhere had to arise somewhere

inevitably and we just happen to be in

that lucky universe and then we are

stunned by that and they call that this

Observer selection effect

so that's superficially

uh an equally plausible explanation to

the Fine tuner argument and a lot of

physicists have told me that they regard

the two as a wash you can believe in a

fine tuner or you could believe in a

Multiverse

I think the fine tuner the the we'll

call it theistic design argument

provides a better overall explanation in

both scenarios there is a level of faith

that is required we don't have evidence

for a Multiverse in the way that people

would want evidence of God atheists want

to see some physical manifestation of

God and they they also don't have that

for the Multiverse rather what you do is

you look at what we can observe and then

you make inferences based on that so I

love the example that he gave of a

combustible engine I love the example

that he gave of a of a well-made recipe

you look at the recipe and you infer

that there might be a cook that played a

role somewhere in this extremely

well-designed recipe you look at a

combustible engine you think there was

probably an engineer you look at a

painting like you know um like the Mona

Lisa and you think you know I wonder if

there was a painter's handiwork

somewhere along the way

um you look at the complexity of a

computer system and you think maybe

there was a designer behind this as well

you look at this universe and its

complexity and you and you realize that

due to that fine-tuning effect perhaps

just perhaps that there was actually

design that went into this for the same

reasons or you say well wait a second

like he already kind of explained I

don't need to rehash it but maybe we

just feel like it's special but really

it's just a numbers game where we're

lucky in the Multiverse both however

require Faith neither of those scenarios

meets the level of uh the the criteria

of evidence that atheists want God to be

able to bring to the table neither can

the Multiverse Theory bring that to the

table so we're left in a place of of

Faith at this juncture but again in the

scenario of there being an intelligent

designer we also have a Bedrock for

ethics for human rights for human

dignity for the fact that we actually

have things like love that exists things

like thoughts that exist that are

immaterial all of all these other things

begin to make more sense in the context

of there being an intelligent designer

I.E God what's inconvenient about that

is that then you also have this idea of

an authority if there's a personal uh

intelligence above us and who has

created the universe then we're on the

hook

in terms of him being an authority this

is where C.S Lewis talks about we desire

a Heavenly grandfather not a Heavenly

Father we want someone that gives us

presence and scratches our back and

gives us all the things that we like but

never asks anything of us and does not

ask us to be under their Authority in

any way and I really think that that is

the rub and the reason that the

Multiverse theory is more appealing is

people when their hearts are hard

against God simply cannot stand the idea

of his authority because that means that

they're not God and so just some things

to consider all this being said you guys

this was another

awesome clip I love the Rogan Stephen

Meyer mashup I hope you guys do too

um I might try to pull one more out of

there if not we'll move on to some other

good content and I'll see you guys in

the next video thanks a lot bye

[Music]

thank you