Is Our Universe ACTUALLY 26 Billion Years Old? The Joe Rogan Experience

Summary

The video script discusses the debate over the age of the universe, with a claim that it might be 26 billion years old, challenging the widely accepted 13.8 billion years. It critiques the idea that advanced civilizations or the formation of galaxies could be used to determine the universe's age, emphasizing that such factors do not necessarily reflect the universe's true age. The speaker, an experimentalist, highlights the importance of testing and refining scientific models, suggesting that new technology like the Simons Observatory could provide deeper insights into galaxy formation and potentially reshape our understanding of the cosmos.

Takeaways

• 🌌 The claim of a 26 billion-year-old universe is questioned in the context of advanced civilizations existing on a 4.3 billion-year-old Earth, implying that the planet's age must be older to support such developments.
• 🔭 Gupta's argument suggests that the properties and distribution of galaxies indicate they could not have formed in a universe as young as 13 billion years, challenging the current understanding of the universe's age.
• 🤔 The speaker contemplates the difference between the universe's age being 13 billion versus 27 billion years, highlighting the importance of precision in scientific claims.
• 🧠 The speaker emphasizes that the structure of galaxies does not necessarily reflect the universe's age, but rather our models and simulations of galaxy formation.
• 🔬 The age of the universe is known with a certain degree of precision, akin to knowing a person's birth date within a week, not exact but close enough for scientific purposes.
• 🛠 The role of an experimentalist is to challenge and prove theories wrong, narrowing down possibilities to reveal the truth.
• 🌐 Isaac Asimov's quote is used to illustrate the importance of refining our understanding of the Earth's shape, and by extension, the universe's structure.
• 🌪 The unpredictability of complex systems, like climate, is compared to the challenges in accurately modeling galaxy formation.
• 🔮 The potential for new technology, like the Simons Observatory, to provide more information and refine our understanding of galaxy formation is acknowledged.
• 🚀 The speaker differentiates between the study of galaxy formation and the study of the universe's origins, noting that advancements in one do not necessarily impact the other.
• 🌟 The James Webb Space Telescope is mentioned as a tool for studying galaxy formations, stars, exoplanets, and potentially extraterrestrial civilizations, but not for understanding the Big Bang itself.

Q & A

What is the claim about the age of the universe that the speaker is discussing?

The speaker is discussing a claim that the universe is 26 billion years old, which they find hard to reconcile with the current understanding that the universe is around 13.8 billion years old.

Why does the speaker find the 26 billion years claim problematic?

The speaker finds the claim problematic because it contradicts the established scientific understanding of the universe's age and the development timeline of civilizations and galaxies.

What does the speaker suggest about the development of civilizations and technology?

The speaker suggests that the development of advanced technology, such as electrified silicon and internet, on a planet that is supposedly only 4 billion years old is implausible according to their model of civilization development.

What is the speaker's view on the criticism of the Big Bang theory based on galaxy formation?

The speaker believes that the criticism based on galaxy formation does not necessarily undermine the Big Bang theory. Instead, it might indicate flaws in our models of galaxy formation rather than the age of the universe.

What is the speaker's profession and how does it influence their perspective on scientific theories?

The speaker identifies as an experimentalist, which means their job is to test and potentially disprove scientific theories, not to prove them right, aiming to refine and improve existing models.

What does the speaker mean when they say their job is to prove theories wrong?

The speaker means that as a scientist, their role is to challenge and test the validity of existing theories, to find and correct any flaws, thereby contributing to a more accurate understanding of the truth.

What is the significance of the Simons Observatory in the context of the discussion?

The Simons Observatory is significant as it aims to provide new insights into the early universe, potentially offering more information that could refine our understanding of galaxy formation and the universe's history.

What is the speaker's stance on the possibility of new technology changing our understanding of the universe?

The speaker is open to the idea that new technology could reveal more information about the universe, potentially leading to a remapping of our current models and understanding.

What does the speaker compare the complexity of simulating Earth's climate to?

The speaker compares the complexity of simulating Earth's climate to the need for another Earth, as there is no way to reduce the complexity of a physical system to less than the system itself.

How does the speaker view the process of scientific discovery and refinement?

The speaker views scientific discovery as a process of finding flaws in existing paradigms, refining them, and improving our understanding through the discovery of new information and technologies.

What is the speaker's opinion on the possibility of advanced civilizations casting doubt on the universe's history?

The speaker believes that even if a hyper-advanced civilization were discovered, it would not cause them to question the universe's history itself, but rather it would prompt a reevaluation of models of civilization development.

Outlines

00:00

🌌 The Improbability of Advanced Civilizations on a Young Planet

The speaker challenges the claim that the Earth is 26 billion years old by using an analogy of an advanced civilization on a 4 billion-year-old planet. They argue that such technological feats as electrified silicon communication, internet, and space flight could not have been achieved in such a short time according to their model of civilization development. The speaker then refutes the idea that the age of the universe can be questioned based on the early formation of galaxies and their distribution, emphasizing that these are separate issues from the universe's age. They stress the importance of distinguishing between the evidence for the Big Bang and the models used to understand galaxy formation, and highlight the precision with which astronomers estimate the universe's age, comparing it to the precision with which one might estimate a person's age.

05:01

🔬 The Quest for Truth in Scientific Models and the Potential of New Technology

The speaker discusses the role of a scientist, particularly an experimentalist, in seeking to prove theories wrong in order to refine and narrow down to the truth. They reference Isaac Asimov's quote about the Earth's shape to illustrate that it's better to be slightly wrong than completely wrong. The speaker then addresses the complexity of simulating the Earth's climate and the inherent challenges in understanding complex systems. They suggest that new technology, such as the Simons Observatory, could provide more information and potentially remap our understanding of galaxy formation, exoplanets, stars, and even extraterrestrial civilizations. The speaker concludes by emphasizing the excitement of discovering flaws in current models and the continuous pursuit of refining our understanding of the universe.

Keywords

💡Electrified Silicon

Electrified silicon refers to silicon that is charged or powered, often used in the context of electronic devices. In the video, it is used metaphorically to describe advanced technology on a hypothetical planet, questioning how such technology could exist on a planet that is supposedly only four billion years old, which ties into the broader theme of questioning the age of the universe and the development of civilizations.

💡Internet

The internet is a global network of interconnected computers that allows for the exchange of information and communication. In the script, it is mentioned alongside electrified silicon to illustrate the advanced technological capabilities of a civilization, which the speaker uses to challenge the perceived age of the Earth and, by extension, the universe.

💡Space Flight

Space flight is the act of traveling through outer space, typically achieved through spacecraft. The script uses space flight as an example of a technological milestone that would be unexpected on a young planet, thus questioning the established timeline of Earth's and the universe's age.

💡Gupta's Argument

Gupta's argument refers to a hypothetical scenario presented in the script where the properties of galaxies, such as their rotation and formation, are used to challenge the age of the universe. The speaker uses this to discuss the difference between the formation of galaxies and the age of the universe, emphasizing that the two are separate issues.

💡Big Bang

The Big Bang is the prevailing cosmological model for the observable universe's origin, suggesting that it began as a singularity and expanded from there. The script discusses the criticism of this model based on the early formation of galaxies, but the speaker argues that such criticisms do not undermine the evidence for the Big Bang itself.

💡Galaxy Formation

Galaxy formation refers to the process by which galaxies come into existence in the universe. The script mentions that the formation and structure of galaxies do not necessarily reflect the universe's age, but rather provide insights into the models used to understand these processes.

💡Scientific Paradigms

Scientific paradigms are the accepted theories or models that guide scientific understanding at a given time. The script discusses the importance of challenging these paradigms to refine and improve our understanding, using the example of the Earth's shape to illustrate how scientific knowledge evolves.

💡Experimentalist

An experimentalist is a scientist who conducts experiments to test hypotheses and theories. The speaker identifies as an experimentalist, emphasizing their role in disproving theories to narrow down to the truth, which is a key theme in the scientific method.

💡Complexity

Complexity in the script refers to the intricate and interrelated nature of systems, such as the Earth's climate, which cannot be fully simulated or reduced to simpler models. The speaker uses the concept of complexity to discuss the limitations of our understanding and the potential for new technologies to reveal more information.

💡Simons Observatory

The Simons Observatory is a project mentioned in the script that aims to gather more data about the universe, potentially refining our understanding of galaxy formation and other cosmic phenomena. It represents the ongoing pursuit of knowledge and the potential for new technologies to reshape scientific models.

💡Web Telescope

The Web Telescope, or the WorldWide Telescope, is an example of a technological tool that can enhance our observational capabilities in astronomy. The script suggests that while it cannot provide insights into the Big Bang, it can contribute to our understanding of galaxy formations, stars, exoplanets, and more.

Highlights

The claim of 26 billion years is questioned in the context of Earth's capabilities and age.

A hypothetical scenario is presented where advanced civilizations on a young planet challenge traditional models of civilization development.

Gupta's argument about galaxy properties and their implications on the universe's age is critiqued.

The distinction between the formation and structure of galaxies in relation to the universe's age is clarified.

The importance of refining models and paradigms in scientific discovery is emphasized.

Isaac Asimov's quote about the Earth's shape illustrates the pursuit of truth in science.

The role of an experimentalist in proving theories wrong to narrow down to the truth is explained.

The idea that advanced civilizations would not affect the understanding of the universe's evolution is discussed.

The complexity of simulating Earth's climate as an example of the inherent complexity in physical systems.

The potential for new technology to provide more information and remap our understanding of the universe is considered.

The Simons Observatory's goal to enhance our detection capabilities in the study of the universe is mentioned.

The limitations of the Web Telescope in understanding the Big Bang or galaxy formation are highlighted.

The Web Telescope's potential to study galaxy formations, stars, exoplanets, and civilizations is outlined.

The pursuit of finding flaws in existing paradigms to refine our understanding of the universe is underscored.

The notion of complexity in scientific models and the challenge of reducing it to understand physical systems is discussed.

Transcripts

so this claim of 26 billion years is

that does it make any sense it can make

sense in the in the following context

imagine you see a planet and on that

planet there are people and they're

they're playing around with like these

electrified pieces of silicon and you'd

be like wait a second like that's really

weird like that planet's only four

billion years old how is it possible

that they're not only able to to talk on

electrified silicon but they're also

like having an internet and space flight

no no no it takes longer in my model of

how civilizations form it must have

taken 8 billion years for that to happen

so therefore there it's impossible to

reconcile with the Earth being 4.3

billion years old therefore the Earth

must be 8 billion years old what he said

this guy Gupta said there are properties

of galaxies they're rotating they're

appearing too early on the universe's

early history to have developed into the

spiral characteristics and the

population distribution of them is too

numerous to have occurred in a universe

that's only quote unquote 13 billion

years and you actually said that you

said like I always thought you know 13

billion is a pretty big number you know

now they're saying 27 so what's the

difference but there's a big difference

because implicit in that criticism is

that there are flaws and and

Imperfections in how we understand the

Big Bang okay when in reality at best he

could be correct about the formation of

galaxies but you see those are two

separate things right the formation and

the structure of a galaxy has no bearing

on how old the UN universe is

necessarily it tells you something about

your models of computer simulations is

what he's effectively criticizing not

criticizing the evidence that something

like a Big Bang occurred at a very

definite point in the universe's past

that we believe to about one to the we

have equivalent Precision for me to say

I know how old you are exactly but but

if you looked at a 50-year-old person

you could say you know the day they were

born plus or minus a week like that's

the Precision with which monitors

astronomers know the age of the universe

and one guy is coming up with this idea

that because there's certain galaxies

within it that have formed this I again

imagine if we found like a hyper

Advanced civilization that has warp

drives and you know does every type

three Dyson civilizations or whatever

they would not cast doubt on the

evolution and the history of the

universe

itself that would not cause me to

question that it would cause me to

question my models of how po people form

and Aliens form and stuff like that but

it wouldn't cause me to question the age

of the universe there's nothing related

to it when we are studying the age of

the universe and the vastness of space

is there potentially new technology that

would expose more than we currently can

view that would change your model in the

sense that we are JNS a scientist

especially me as an experimentalist in

contrast to people like Brian Cox um

Neil degrass Tyson Eric Weinstein Etc

my job is not to prove theories right my

job is actually to prove them wrong

that's really what I get paid to do is

to narrow and winnow out so much so that

what is left is the truth there's a

quote by Isaac azimov he said if you

think the Earth is flat you're wrong if

you think it's a perfect sphere you're

also wrong because it's not a perfect

sphere it actually bulges at the equator

it has properties you know because the

Earth is spinning and the way it forms a

little bit like a pair okay um so it's

also not but it's much less wrong to say

it's a sphere than to say it's flat our

job is to find the flaws in the existing

paradigms shatter those and refine those

and there's countless you know examples

of that throughout scientific history so

there are ways that I would be caused to

doubt the formation story of galaxies

absolutely I mean that's almost like

predicting hurricanes you know I just

came through a hurricane to see you

right there's a big hurricane in San

Diego this week and like it's like an

inch of rain okay you know how we drive

in Southern California right um so even

a slick of trace of rain causes us to go

into into total Terror um but uh but we

didn't know where was going to make

exact landfall cuz climate is an example

not of something that's merely

complicated it's complex the best way to

simulate the earth's climate is with

another Earth in other words there's no

irreducible way to reduce the amount of

complexity to describe a physical system

than the system itself that's a notion

of complexity that's a definition of

complexity so in the context of what you

said absolutely and people like Allison

and others Kat they definitely are would

be more thrilled than anybody to

discover well we didn't understand

there's something wrong with our model

of how the universe for not how the

universe formed but how galaxies form so

what I'm asking is with the levels of

detection that we have available how

significant is the change in what the

web is able to do and is it possible

that like when we're looking are is is

it whatever levels of detection whatever

methods of detection we have now is it

absolute that if you go to 13 whatever

billion years is it possible that with

new technology we would get more

information we'd be able to see more and

then you would remap this idea yes and

the good news is that's what the Simons

Observatory is trying to do the web

telescope has was never built for nor

can it say anything about the Big Bang

or what caused the big bang or it's just

Galaxy formations it's it's not just by

the way it's it's that's a pretty big

deal but it's Galaxy formation

properties the Stars exoplanets the

atmospheres the chemistry uh

civilizations on EXO it can do so much

cool stuff