Does God exist? | J. Krishnamurti

Summary

In this thought-provoking dialogue, the speaker challenges the concept of God, questioning whether humans created God or vice versa. They explore the idea that belief in God is a product of human thought and fear, rather than an inherent truth. The speaker encourages individuals to seek truth and freedom from life's burdens, suggesting that true understanding transcends mere belief and requires personal exploration and introspection.

Takeaways

• 🤔 The speaker questions the existence of God, suggesting that the concept of God may be a human invention rather than a divine reality.
• 💭 The speaker invites the audience to investigate the idea of God, emphasizing that questioning is not the same as denying.
• 🌐 The speaker discusses the omnipotence and omniscience attributed to God, and challenges the audience to consider whether humans, as part of God's image, embody these qualities.
• 🧐 The speaker points out the irony that humans create gods out of fear and then seek security and safety through these creations.
• 💡 The speaker suggests that the concept of God is a projection of human thought, essentially worshipping an image of oneself.
• 🌏 The speaker highlights the diversity of gods in different cultures, implying that these are human constructs rather than universal truths.
• 💰 The speaker criticizes the practice of offering material things like money to gods, questioning the sincerity and depth of such devotion.
• 💔 The speaker laments the tragedy of seeking external divine entities for love and meaning, rather than finding it within oneself.
• 🚫 The speaker asserts a personal disbelief in the concept of God, distinguishing between belief and the experience of truth.
• 🕊️ The speaker encourages the audience to free themselves from societal burdens and to find vitality and strength within for self-realization.
• 🌟 The speaker distinguishes between the abstract concept of God and the tangible experience of love, suggesting that true divinity lies in the latter.

Q & A

What is the main inquiry presented in the transcript?

The main inquiry is whether God exists and, if so, how one can realize or understand God in this life.

What is the speaker's position on the concept of God?

The speaker suggests that the concept of God might be a human invention, created out of fear and the need for security.

According to the speaker, what is the relationship between God and humans?

The speaker posits that if God created humans, then humans should be extraordinary, but since they are not, it might be that humans have created the idea of God instead.

Why does the speaker question the number of gods in India?

The speaker uses the large number of gods in India to illustrate the idea that humans create gods based on their localities and needs, suggesting a human origin of these deities.

What does the speaker argue about the nature of thought and God?

The speaker argues that thought has created the image of God, and then humans worship this creation, essentially worshipping a part of themselves.

What does the speaker suggest about the offerings made to God?

The speaker questions the value of material offerings like money and rituals, implying that these might not be what a divine entity truly desires or needs.

What is the speaker's view on the concept of 'atman' or soul?

The speaker challenges the concept of 'atman' or soul, questioning its existence and relevance in one's daily life, and urging people to investigate its truth rather than blindly believing.

Why does the speaker criticize the reliance on religious and political leaders?

The speaker criticizes the reliance on leaders because it fosters dependency and weakens individuals, preventing them from finding their own path and truth.

What does the speaker mean by 'living on words'?

The speaker implies that people often settle for the descriptions and words about profound concepts like eternity, rather than experiencing the truth of these concepts themselves.

What is the speaker's stance on the idea of a timeless eternity?

The speaker acknowledges the concept of a timeless eternity but warns against taking his words as the truth, emphasizing the importance of personal discovery and experience.

What is the core message the speaker is trying to convey about belief and truth?

The core message is that belief, especially in concepts like God or the soul, should not be accepted blindly but should be questioned and explored to discover the truth for oneself.

Outlines

00:00

😔 The Existence and Concept of God

The speaker begins by addressing the question of God's existence with a historical perspective, noting the varied beliefs across cultures. They question the origin of the concept of God and challenge the traditional attributes assigned to a divine being. The speaker suggests that humans may have created God in their own image, reflecting on the irony of worshiping a creation of one's own thought. They also ponder the nature of humanity and the implications of a creator God, leading to the conclusion that perhaps humans have fabricated the idea of God rather than the other way around.

05:01

🤔 The Illusion of God and the Search for Truth

In this paragraph, the speaker delves into the psychological aspects of belief in God, suggesting that fear and the need for security drive the creation of divine figures. They critique the materialistic offerings made to these deities and question the value of such practices. The speaker emphasizes the importance of love as a divine attribute and argues that the search for God should not be external but rather an internal realization of one's own capacity for love and goodness. They also express their personal disbelief in a man-made concept of God, advocating for a mind and heart free from life's burdens to experience true eternity.

10:02

🧐 The Debate on the Soul and Inner Truth

The dialogue in this paragraph centers on the concept of the soul or 'atman', with the speaker challenging the audience's beliefs about an eternal essence within. They question the value of such beliefs in the context of one's daily life struggles and suffering. The speaker encourages the audience to investigate the truth of the matter rather than blindly accepting beliefs. They also address the reverence for spiritual leaders and the potential pitfalls of following them without personal realization, advocating for individual exploration and understanding.

15:03

🚶‍♂️ The Journey to Self-Realization and Freedom

The final paragraph emphasizes the importance of personal responsibility and the journey of self-discovery. The speaker warns against the reliance on religious or political leaders, suggesting that dependence weakens the individual. They propose that true strength and vitality come from recognizing one's own capacity to navigate life's challenges. The speaker also discusses the limitations of words in conveying profound truths, like the concept of eternity, and the need to experience these truths directly rather than through the filtered lens of language or authority.

Keywords

💡Existence of God

The existence of God is a central theme in the script, where the speaker questions the concept of God and whether humans have created the idea of God or if God created humans. The speaker challenges the traditional belief in a divine creator, suggesting that the concept of God is a human invention to fulfill needs for security and meaning. This is exemplified in the script by the speaker's rhetorical question, 'Who invented God?'

💡Omnipotent

Omnipotent refers to the attribute of having unlimited power or being able to do anything. In the script, the speaker uses this term to describe the common conception of God as all-powerful, questioning why a benevolent and omnipotent entity would create humans to live difficult lives. This challenges the traditional understanding of God's nature and role in human existence.

💡Self-creation

Self-creation is the idea that humans have created their own beliefs and deities. The speaker posits that people have fabricated the concept of God out of fear and a desire for security, rather than God creating humans. This concept is highlighted when the speaker states, 'You have created God,' emphasizing the human need for control and understanding in a chaotic world.

💡Atman

Atman is a term from Indian philosophy, often translated as 'soul' or 'self.' The speaker questions the concept of atman, challenging the audience to consider whether it is a real entity or simply a product of thought. The discussion of atman in the script is part of the broader exploration of the nature of self and the search for a divine essence within.

💡Conscience

Conscience is an individual's moral sense of right and wrong, typically represented as an inner voice. In the script, the speaker inquires whether conscience is equivalent to atman, suggesting that people may mistake their moral compass for a divine or eternal essence. The term is used to explore the relationship between personal ethics and the concept of a soul.

💡Eternity

Eternity is the concept of something that endures forever and is outside the confines of time. The speaker distinguishes between the human-made concept of God and the possibility of an eternal, timeless state. The script uses the term to discuss the potential for a mind and heart free from life's burdens, which could lead to a realization of something beyond the temporal.

💡Belief

Belief is the acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof. Throughout the script, the speaker criticizes reliance on belief as a means of understanding the divine or the nature of existence. The speaker encourages questioning and investigation over blind faith, as seen in the line, 'Belief has no place where truth is concerned.'

💡Leadership

Leadership, in the context of the script, refers to the role of religious and spiritual leaders in guiding people's beliefs and practices. The speaker questions the need for leaders and the tendency of people to follow them, suggesting that true understanding and freedom come from personal exploration and realization, not from external guidance.

💡Self-realization

Self-realization is the process of discovering one's true nature or potential. The speaker emphasizes the importance of individuals finding their own path and realizing their own potential, rather than relying on external figures or concepts. This is a key message in the script, as the speaker encourages the audience to 'walk straight' on their own.

💡Fear

Fear is a powerful emotion that can drive behavior and shape beliefs. In the script, the speaker suggests that fear is a primary motivator behind the creation of gods and the adherence to religious practices. The term is used to explain why people might seek comfort in the idea of a divine protector or overseer.

💡Abstraction

An abstraction is a concept or idea that does not have a physical or concrete form. The speaker uses the term to describe the idea of God as something that is easy to love because it is not tangible or directly experienced. This contrasts with the speaker's call for a deeper, more personal experience of truth and reality, beyond mere concepts.

Highlights

The speaker questions the existence of God and whether humans invented the concept of God or if God created humans.

Ancient cultures like the Greeks and Sumerians had the idea of God, but it's unclear if the Upanishads mention God at all.

The speaker challenges the traditional concept of an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, merciful, just, and all-good God.

If God created humans in His image, then humans should also be extraordinary, but the speaker questions why humans are not.

The speaker suggests that humans may have created God out of fear and a desire for security and safety.

In India, there are thousands of gods, suggesting that humans have created these gods rather than the other way around.

Thought creates the image of God and then worships it, essentially worshipping oneself.

The speaker emphasizes the importance of love and suggests that love itself is sacred, not the abstract concept of God.

The speaker does not believe in God as something created by humans, but acknowledges the existence of eternity outside of time.

To experience eternity, one must have a mind and heart free from the burdens of life, vanity, arrogance, and selfishness.

The speaker criticizes the reliance on religious and political leaders, suggesting that people need to find their own way.

Belief in God or goodness has no place when it comes to truth, according to the speaker.

The concept of 'atman' or soul is questioned, with the speaker challenging the belief in something permanent within oneself.

The speaker argues that belief in an atman or soul may be childish and does not necessarily play a part in one's daily life.

The value of beliefs like atman is questioned, as the speaker asks what role they play in one's life if one is already free from misery and confusion.

The speaker encourages people to investigate the truth of the matter, rather than just believing in concepts like atman or soul.

The speaker criticizes the reliance on examples and books, suggesting that people should find their own way with vitality and strength.

The speaker emphasizes the importance of realizing one's own responsibility and being free to walk straight without depending on leaders.

Transcripts

Sixth Question: 'Kindly give a straight reply.

Does God exist, or not? Yes, or no?

If yes, how best to realise Him in this life?'

It's a lovely question, isn’t it?

'Kindly give a straight reply.

Does God exist, or not? Yes, or no?

If yes, how best to realise Him in this life?'

Man throughout history from the ancient Greeks,

from the ancient Sumerians, has had this idea of God.

Right?

I'm not at all sure

whether in the Upanishads they mention God at all.

Or is it a later invention?

You understand?

So, what is God?

We are investigating, I am not attacking God.

I am not denying God,

but we are investigating whether there is such a thing as God.

Who invented God?

Did God invent us, did God create us?

God, who is omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, merciful,

just, all goodness. Right?

That’s your concept of God.

And if you say, he has created us, then we are part of his image.

We are part of him.

That is, we are omniscient, generous, loving. Right?

And eternal.

Are we? Or we think we are?

You understand my question?

If God created you, he must be an extraordinary entity

because he wants you to lead a terrible life.

You understand my question?

If God made you, why are you like this?

You must be extraordinary human beings, mustn’t you?

Beautiful, full of joy, excitement, full of delight, but you are not.

So either you have created God, or God has created you.

But if you examine very closely, you have created God.

In India, there are about

– I was told there are about 300,000 gods and more.

Every local person has his own god.

So, sirs, we have created God.

See the irony of it.

Thought has created God

and then thought worships the image which thought has created.

Which is, to worship oneself and call it 'God'.

You understand all this?

'The better part of you is God'. Right?

I wonder if you understand this.

First of all, let’s be clear.

Have you created God?

The local gods, round the corner,

or the local god in Rome, or in Tirupati, or wherever,

you have created them, haven’t you?

You're so very uncertain, aren’t you? So frightened.

If you say, 'We have created', then you are scared stiff

because you have created out of your fear, that.

Out of your fear, you want security.

You want safety, you want to feel there is somebody looking after you

because you are afraid. You follow?

So you create that, and then worship that.

Just see what you are doing!

Going to Tirupati and putting all your money in the bag.

Do you think gods want your money?

Sir, look at it all.

You have nothing to offer but money, garlands, prostrations, rituals.

Right? You have nothing else to offer.

Have you realised the tragedy of this, sirs?

If you love,

not God, that’s very easy to love God

because it's an abstraction, it has not much meaning.

But if you loved, that very love is God, that very love is sacred.

You won’t go outside to look for God.

You understand all this, sirs?

And the questioner wants to know if I believe in God.

I don’t.

Because 'God' is not something created by man.

There is such a thing as eternity,

which is to be outside of time.

Right, sir?

For that you must have a mind,

a heart that is completely free from all the burdens of life.

Right?

From your vanity, your arrogance, your selfishness.

You follow, sir?

And we say, we are not capable of it, tell us what to do.

You are back in the cycle, somebody to tell you what to do.

Sir, you're in a jungle, you have to walk through it by yourself.

And for that you need vitality and vigour and strength.

Not belief in God, in goodness

– belief has no place where truth is concerned.

Q: Then what is atman, sir?

Atman, about which we have been hearing even Annie Besant in the past.

Atman.

K: Who is that?

Q: The conscience inside each of us.

K: Who is atman?

Q: The conscience inside each of us.

K: Is conscience atman?

Q: What they call a soul.

K: Soul. Which soul?

The sole of a shoe? Or soul?

I don’t know what you are talking about.

Q: Atman.

K: At last, you are all getting excited!

Because your belief is being attacked.

You are not meeting the challenge, but you are resisting it.

You think there is something inside you which is permanent,

which is the light of God, which is nameless, etc, etc,

call it 'atman', 'soul', 'light', whatever you like to call it.

That there is inside you, in your conscience,

in your brain, in your mind,

something which is not worldly, which is not of thought.

Right?

You believe that, don’t you? Yes, sir?

Q: No, I don’t believe in it.

K: Why?

Q: There is no such thing.

K: How do you know?

Q: (Inaudible)

K: Childish. Just belief, belief, belief.

What kind of brains have you, sirs?

Don’t you want to find out?

Don’t you want to investigate into the truth of this matter,

whether there is soul, atman, whatever you like to call it?

Just believe. If you believe, what value has it?

Suppose I believe I have got atman, or whatever it is,

'super-atman' I would call it.

I believe in that. What value has it?

In my daily life what part does it play?

I am miserable, I am confused, I’m lonely, anxious, in agony,

what’s the point of my having a belief in atman?

If I am free from all that, completely, then I shall find out.

But to suppose I am, it becomes so childish.

For God’s sake.

And we are all grown-up people – jobs, children, wives.

Q: (Inaudible)

K: What, what, what, sir? I don’t understand what you’re saying.

Q: So many great people…

K: Ramana Maharshi and who?

Q: Ramakrishna.

K: All right, sir. What about them?

Q: They lived a simple life (inaudible)

K: Sir, would you forget all these people,

including Ramana Maharshi, whatever the other gentleman was?

Would you forget them?

What value has their life to you?

You have your life to live, not their life!

God, what kind…?

And when the people say they have attained

– whatever they have attained – how do you know?

Q: You have also said there's some timeless eternity.

K: Ah, I have said it, sir. Don’t believe it!

Q: That's not fair, sir.

K: It is not fair, I know, it is not quite fair.

But, sir, just listen.

Sir, truth is something you cannot experience.

It cannot be told to you, the word is not that.

But if you live on words, it is that.

You understand?

The word is not that, like the word ‘tree’ is not the tree.

I can describe eternity, blah, blah, but the word is not that.

But we are satisfied with the word.

Right, sir?

You love with your heart, with your mind,

with everything that you have, you love somebody,

and you tell me of that love,

and I accept the words but I have no...

– the flower isn’t there, the perfume isn’t there.

You see, sirs, you have leaders:

religious leaders and political leaders.

I don’t know why, why you have leaders at all.

Ramakrishna, whatever gurus that you've had, one after the other.

This country is full of them.

And why do you follow? You understand?

If once you realised that you are responsible entirely for yourself,

that you are in a jungle, literally in a jungle,

where you have to make your own way out.

There is nobody to lead you,

then you forget all this:

the examples, the books, everything,

because you have got vitality, strength to go through.

But the moment you depend on leaders, you become weak.

If once you realise it, in your heart not just intellectually,

then you are a man, a human being,

free to walk straight!

But we don’t want all that.

Sir, it's so simple when you think of it all.