The surprising results of India’s election

Summary

In this episode of 'Trending Globally' by the Watson Institute at Brown University, host Dan Richards delves into India's recent elections, where Prime Minister Narendra Modi's BJP faced a surprising reduction in seats. The discussion with political scientist Ashutosh Varshney explores Modi's background, the rise of Hindu nationalism, and its implications for India's democracy. The episode also touches on the BJP's relationship with the RSS, the potential impact of coalition governance on Hindu nationalist policies, and the broader global context of nationalist leaders. Insights are shared on how these changes might influence India's domestic policies and its relationship with the U.S.

Takeaways

• 🗳️ India held the largest democratic election in history with over 640 million voters.
• 📅 The election lasted 44 days, involved 15 million polling staff, and had 1 million polling stations.
• 🔹 Narendra Modi's party, BJP, was expected to dominate but fell short of expectations.
• 🤝 Modi will have to rely on smaller parties for support, marking a shift to a multi-party coalition.
• 🕌 The election results impact the Hindu nationalist movement led by Modi.
• 🌍 Ashutosh Varshney from Brown University provides analysis on the surprising election outcome.
• 📉 The Congress party's decline in popularity since the late 1980s helped the BJP rise.
• 🧲 Modi's personal charisma and incorruptible image contributed to his political success.
• 📜 Modi's governance faced criticism for democratic backsliding and anti-Muslim policies.
• 🇮🇳 The election outcome suggests a potential shift in India’s treatment of minorities and constitutional governance.
• 🌐 India's relationship with the US remains strong due to geopolitical strategies against China.
• 🔄 The global trend of nationalist leaders might be losing momentum, as seen in India's election.

Q & A

What were the key statistics of India's largest democratic election?

Over 640 million people voted in India's election, which took 44 days, involved 15 million polling staff, and had 1 million polling stations to fill 543 seats in Parliament.

What was the outcome of India's recent election for Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his party BJP?

Prime Minister Narendra Modi claimed victory, but his party, BJP, fell short of expectations and did not win an outright majority, needing to rely on smaller parties for support.

Who is Narendra Modi, and what is notable about his background?

Narendra Modi comes from a very underprivileged background and did not have the privilege to study at prestigious universities. He was homeschooled and moved up the hierarchy through the RSS, an organization committed to Hindu nationalism.

What is the RSS, and how did it influence Narendra Modi?

The RSS, or Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, is nearly 100 years old and promotes the idea of Hindu primacy in India. It is a cultural organization that believes in making politics and society more Hindu-centric. Modi joined the RSS as a teenager and was trained through its programs.

What is the relationship between the RSS and the BJP?

The BJP is considered the political arm of the RSS. Many core BJP leaders, including Modi, were trained in the RSS, though not all BJP leaders come from the RSS.

How did Hindu nationalism rise to popularity in India?

Hindu nationalism was not always popular. It was a fringe movement until around 1989 when the decline of the Indian National Congress's legitimacy due to corruption created room for new ideas. The BJP filled this gap with culturally and religiously defined proposals.

What role did Narendra Modi's personal characteristics play in his political success?

Modi's profound charisma and the fact that he is single, without a family to benefit from political corruption, made him very attractive to voters, especially against a backdrop of widespread political corruption.

What actions has Modi taken that align with Hindu nationalist policies?

Modi's government has passed several laws targeting Muslims, including removing the special status of Kashmir, passing a citizenship law that excludes Muslims from neighboring countries, and enacting 'love jihad' laws to prevent Muslim men from marrying Hindu women.

What were some reasons for the BJP's underperformance in the recent election?

Concerns among voters about constitutional changes and the potential erosion of democratic principles, such as affirmative action for lower castes and the treatment of Muslims, contributed to the BJP's underperformance.

What are the potential impacts of the election results on India's governance?

The need for coalition governance will dilute the ideological purity of Modi's policies, reduce centralization of power, and revive federalism. Aggressive Hindu nationalist policies toward Muslims will likely decrease to maintain coalition stability.

How might the election results affect India's relationship with the United States?

The close relationship between India and the United States, seen as a counterweight to China, will likely remain unaffected by the election results, regardless of Modi's Hindu nationalist agenda.

Outlines

00:00

🇮🇳 Overview of India's Historic Election

This paragraph introduces the context of the recent Indian election, highlighting its massive scale and democratic significance. It mentions the expectations surrounding Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his party, the BJP, and contrasts these with the actual election results, which fell short of predictions, necessitating a coalition government.

05:01

🗳️ Modi's Political Journey and Background

The paragraph provides background on Narendra Modi, emphasizing his underprivileged origins and rise through the ranks of the RSS, an organization promoting Hindu nationalism. It explains how the RSS shaped Modi's political career and details the connection between the RSS and the BJP.

10:04

🌍 Rise of Hindu Nationalism in Modern India

This section explores the history and growth of Hindu nationalism in India, tracing its transformation from a fringe movement to a dominant political force. It discusses the decline of the Congress Party, the appeal of Hindu nationalist ideas, and Modi's charismatic leadership, which played a crucial role in the BJP's success.

15:04

🏛️ The Impact of Modi's Policies and Governance

This paragraph delves into Modi's controversial policies and their impact on India's political landscape, focusing on the legal measures taken against Muslims and the implications for India's democracy. It also examines Modi's authoritarian tendencies and the concept of democratic backsliding.

20:06

📜 Constitutional Concerns and Election Implications

The section discusses the election results' implications for India's governance, highlighting the concerns about constitutional changes and the dilution of ideological purity due to coalition politics. It emphasizes the significance of the election in terms of federalism, minority rights, and the potential for a more inclusive political approach.

25:07

🌏 Global Implications and Future Projections

This final paragraph reflects on the broader implications of India's election for global politics, particularly its relationship with the United States and the trend of nationalist leaders worldwide. It considers the potential changes in India's governance and their effects on international relations, particularly in the context of countering China's influence.

Keywords

💡Narendra Modi

Narendra Modi is the Prime Minister of India who has led the country since 2014. He is associated with the Hindu nationalist movement and the BJP party. His background and rise from an underprivileged status contribute significantly to his political appeal.

💡BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party)

The BJP is a major political party in India that represents Hindu nationalist ideologies. Under Modi's leadership, the party has gained significant power, but in the recent elections, it failed to secure a majority, leading to a need for coalition governance.

💡Hindu Nationalism

Hindu nationalism is a political and cultural ideology that emphasizes the primacy of Hindu culture and values in India. The RSS and BJP are key proponents of this movement, which has gained prominence under Modi's leadership.

💡RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh)

The RSS is a Hindu nationalist organization that aims to promote Hindu values and culture in India. It has a significant influence on the BJP and Narendra Modi, providing a foundational network and ideology for his political career.

💡Coalition Government

A coalition government is formed when multiple political parties cooperate to form a majority in parliament. Due to the BJP's recent election performance, Modi's party will now need to govern as part of a coalition, marking a shift from their previous majority rule.

💡Democratic Backsliding

Democratic backsliding refers to the gradual decline in the quality of democracy, often through the erosion of political freedoms and checks on executive power. The script discusses how Modi's policies and leadership have been associated with such trends in India.

💡Kashmir

Kashmir is a region in India that has been a focal point of political and territorial conflict. In August 2019, the Indian government revoked its special status, which has significant implications for the region's autonomy and the rights of its predominantly Muslim population.

💡Love Jihad Laws

Love Jihad laws are state-level legislations in India that aim to prevent Muslim men from marrying Hindu women, based on the belief that such marriages are part of a strategy to increase the Muslim population. These laws reflect the BJP's anti-Muslim stance.

💡Affirmative Action

Affirmative action in India refers to policies designed to improve opportunities for historically disadvantaged groups, such as lower castes and minorities. The script mentions concerns about potential changes to these policies under Modi's government.

💡Constitutional Amendments

Constitutional amendments are changes made to a country's constitution. The script discusses how Modi's call for a larger majority in parliament could enable significant amendments to India's constitution, potentially altering its secular and democratic framework.

Highlights

On June 4th, results came in from the largest democratic election in history, with over 640 million people voting in India's election.

India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi and his party, the BJP, did not secure the expected outright majority, leading to a need for coalition governance.

For the first time in Modi's tenure, his party will have to govern as part of a multi-party coalition.

Modi comes from a very underprivileged background, which contributes to his political popularity.

Modi's political career was shaped by the RSS, a nearly 100-year-old organization committed to the idea of Hindu primacy in India.

The BJP is the political arm of the RSS, with Modi being offered to the BJP in the late 1980s or 1990s.

Hindu nationalism was a fringe movement until around 1989, when the BJP began gaining popularity as the Congress party's dominance waned due to corruption.

Modi's charisma and perceived lack of corruption, due to his single status and lack of family, have significantly contributed to his popularity.

The BJP's victory in 2014 under Modi's leadership was a significant turning point, with an even more resounding victory in 2019.

Despite Modi's expected dominance, the BJP lost dozens of seats in the recent election, marking a shift in Indian politics.

Concerns about the Constitution and potential changes, particularly regarding affirmative action and the treatment of Muslims, influenced voter sentiment.

The BJP has historically opposed a caste census, which would highlight inequalities among different Hindu castes.

Modi's government has centralized power significantly, but coalition governance will require compromises and a revival of federalism.

The Hindu nationalist political aggression towards Muslims is expected to decrease to maintain coalition stability.

India's relationship with the United States, viewed as a counterweight to China, is expected to remain strong regardless of the election outcome.

Transcripts

from the Watson Institute for

international and public affairs at

Brown University this is trending

globally I'm Dan Richards on June 4th

results came in from the largest

democratic election in

history over 640 million people voted in

India's election 44 days 15 million

polling staff 1 million polling stations

and take 543

seats many people predicted that India's

prime minister Narendra Modi and his

party the BJP would dominate for the

third election in a row win an outright

majority of seats in India's Parliament

and further solidify their Hindu

nationalist movement's grip on the

country and then the results came

in the Indian Prime Minister Narendra

Modi has claimed Victory but his party's

performance appears to have fallen well

short of expectations a smaller than

expected mandate means Modi will have to

lean on smaller parties for support a

massive change for a man who has kept

power in the palm of his hand for two

terms for the first time in modi's

tenure his party will have to govern as

part of a multi-party

coalition but what does this actually

mean for India and what does it mean for

the Hindu nationalist movement that Modi

represents to answer these questions I

spoke with ashutosh vsh a political

scientist at Brown University and

director of the Watson institute's

saxena Center for contemporary South

Asia on this episode what led to the

surprising outcome of India's election

this year what it means for the Hindu

nationalist movement embodied by prime

minister Modi and what this all might

tell us about the struggle for democracy

currently taking place in countries

around the

world Professor

ashv thank you so much for coming back

on to trending globally pleasure to join

you so I want to talk about India's

election of course and the results we

saw the other week week but I was

wondering if we could start with a a

little bit about the man who was just

reelected as prime minister you know for

listeners who might not be that familiar

who is Narendra Modi and what drives him

Mr Modi comes from a very

underprivileged background and that is

one of the reasons for his political

popularity I can think of only one other

uh long serving being prime minister of

India who had a background as

underprivileged or perhaps more

underprivileged than his Manmohan Singh

who was prime minister from 2004 to 2014

but there was a very big difference Mr

Modi did not have the privilege to go to

either Cambridge or Oxford or American

IV League he was homeschooled he was

taught in regular Indian schools and he

has moved up the hierarchy through an

organization called the RSS

rria so what is the RSS and and how did

it shape Mr Modi Growing Up So this

organization is nearly 100 years old and

it is committed to the idea of Hindu

Primacy in India Hindu nationalism that

India is primarily a Hindu Nation Hindus

are 80% of India 20% are non-hindu

minorities the argument is that Hindus

are the original peoples of India and

they should have Primacy technically the

RSS is not a political organization it

calls itself a cultural organization it

is committed to what it calls the

cultural Rejuvenation of India and it

believes that the cultural Rejuvenation

will come from making politics and

Society more Hindu Centric they have

organizations all over India they which

meet regularly they typically catch um

members when they young in their teenage

and then they go through training

instruction and Modi was brought into

this organization around that age right

correct I think it was maybe 16 years

old or 15 years old and what's the

relationship between the RSS and the BJP

the the political party that Modi now

leads so the BJP technically speaking is

their political arm

they can exchange personnel with the BJP

that's been part of the tradition Mr

Modi was offered to the BJP sometime in

the 1990s or late 80s and he's been with

the BJP since then it's not that all BJP

leaders come from the RSS they've been

Outsiders who've come in and as it has

become bigger and bigger but the core of

the BJP is still those who were trained

in the

RSS okay so like you said the Hindu

nationalist movement in India has been

around for a long time including in the

form of the RSS and the

BJP but in the last decade this movement

and the BJP as its political arm has

become a Force in a in a new way so what

has made this movement so successful

more recently so how is it that Hindu

nationalism became so popular or has it

been popular all along the answer is it

has not been popular all along it was a

fringe movement when India became

independent in

1947 it never uh even reached double

digits in elections until

1989 now the question is what changed

around

1989 as V explained the story of the

rise of Hindu nationalism and the BJP

over the last decade in some ways starts

with the Indian National Congress the

bjp's political rival also known as just

the congress party the congress party

was the party that led the Freedom

Movement in India and was the party of

Gandhi and nehu to most important uh

leaders of the 20th century it dominated

the political scene after 47 till

1989 but by the late 1980s the congress

party was losing its luster by in 1989

it was clear that the old style Congress

politics was corrupt hugely so and some

new ideas were needed the new ideas

could have come from two sides the left

wing and where the Communists were or

the right wing where the Hindu

nationalists were the left-wing ideas

led by the Communist party did not have

appeal uh because civilization or in

terms of India's culture it was very

hard to understand a Pur class-based

argument which the Communists had they

succeeded in two states but it was not

going to work in the largest part of

India it didn't make much sense to the

electorate but a culturally defined a

religiously defined alternative proposal

started making greater sense as the

legitimacy of the longlasting

incumbents congress party

declined so BJP filled that Gap with

these ideas and these ideas acquired

ferocious popularity in the last 10

years another key ingredient in This

ferocious popularity was the profound

Charisma of the bjp's leader very few

leaders in India you can count them on

your hand have wielded the kind of

Charisma Mr Modi yields part of the

Charisma is built on something that

would be called very counterintuitive in

the West which is that Mr Modi is

single he was married as a teenager but

he left his wife he doesn't have a

family he doesn't have children his lack

of a partner or children is something

that is an asset for him and other

Indian politicians the amount of

corruption that Indian politics

Saw made him very attractive to the

people because he would not use his

office to make money for his family for

his children in addition to his Charisma

and seemingly unimpeachable nature Modi

was also supported in his Rise by the

vast network of the organization that

shaped him the RSS which uh has a

long-term view of how to reform Indian

politics and Society has very dedicated

U volunteers and members and they were

all ready to support him and to work for

him to knock at the door and get the

vote

out the bjp's popularity grew in 2014

under the leadership of Mr Modi the BJP

won a majority of seats in that Year's

parliamentary elections and Mr Modi

became prime minister the victory by the

Bara jenta party and its leader Narendra

Modi had been Wily predicted but what

hadn't was the scale of the landslide 5

years later in

2019 Modi and the BJP won again with an

even more resounding Victory the

incumbent prime minister lenro mudi has

dominated this election the BJP and its

Coalition partners are leading by a long

way

347 seats a clear majority the Indian

National Congress and its allies trail

behind on 87

seats until this year's election Mod's

grip on power had seemed to only be

growing stronger and while there were a

number of factors that led to the bjp's

dominance as varsh made clear it can

also only be understood thanks to the

collapse of the bjp's Rival the strong

force that it became by 2014 that would

not have been possible without the

widespread Corruption of the congress

party and its

allies that is what created room for Mr

modi's politics and Mr modi's

organization and that's how it spread

from one state to many other states and

made him an all- India

figure any surprising Victory involves a

an embarrassing defeat yes you know yes

yes and you know this is a fairly common

occurrence in most polities incumbents

lose because they don't behave well and

they don't understand the popular wishes

or they abuse office and authority and

then the challengers come in you know

International observers speaking of

other other polities Modi has often been

mentioned in the same circle of leaders

like erdogan in Turkey or bolsonaro and

Brazil Trump in the United States part

of a wave of um somewhat you know

nationalist autocratic leaning uh strong

men what do you make of that comparison

do you see something coherent shared

among all these figures or is it sort of

too easy an analogy no I think uh at one

level the analogy is very very

good they all have what we call now in

my discipline in political science

authoritarian Tendencies which lead to

and I'm now using a political science

term Democratic backsliding this concept

emerged quite recently in political

science and it started covering a

phenomenon which was rare earlier if not

entirely absent those who attacked

democracy in the past generally came

from the

military or authoritarian civilian

leaders who would suspend

elections or stage them basically in the

Democratic backsliding literature the

military is not an agent of democratic

erosion elected politicians are the

first thing they normally do is attack

the non-electoral aspects of democracy

freedom of expression freedom of

Association minority protection so these

are people who first attack that and

then sometime they start attacking

elections

themselves so what are some examples of

mod policies that are either attacking

elections or just generally fitting into

this template of democratic backsliding

so Hindus are 80% of India roughly and

minorities are 20% and Muslims are the

biggest minority 14% plus that is that

adds up to more than 200 million people

India by that account is either the

third or fourth largest Muslim country

in the world even though Muslims are

only 14% because the overall size of

India is so

immense so

Hindu nationalism Doctrine originally

was against both Muslims and

Christians but under its Modi

Incarnation it has especially targeted

Muslims the adversary for Hindu

nationalists has always been the Muslim

and we can get into details of this why

this is so that's because in part

Muslims came to India from Central Asia

and the Middle East to begin with uh

they ruled large parts of India between

1206 and

1757 when the British came to India and

started capturing India so there is that

126 to 1757 period in Indian history

when large parts were ruled by Muslim

kings many of whom came from abroad not

all many were born inside right so the

idea Hindu nationalism again and again

and again and again without failure is

that Muslims are

Outsiders even if so many were born in

India even if in fact an overwhelming

majority was born in India but they are

not the original peoples of India is the

argument and Hindu Supremacy has to be

restored which means Hindus and Muslims

cannot be equal an idea which as V made

clear isn't just

undemocratic that is also fundamentally

unconstitutional idea India's

Constitution says all religions are

equal every citizen regardless of their

religious background is equal to every

other citizen so can you walk us through

some of the actions he's taken to

promote this anti-muslim Hindu

nationalist agenda so at three levels

there was a legal

intervention one was the only Muslim

majority state of India Kashmir through

parliamentary legislation in August 2019

after the last victory lost its status

as a state let alone as a specially

protected State second by December of

that year when an unprecedented number

of the lower house was BJP politicians

parliament passed a law which said that

from Muslim majority neighboring

countries Pakistan Afghanistan and

Bangladesh anyone can be a refugee in

India and apply for citizenship except

Muslims uh third in states that were

governed by the BJP nearly half of India

States and many of them love Jihad laws

were passed what are love Jihad laws

love Jihad laws are that Muslim men

cannot marry Hindu women what is the

premise for this claim that Muslims have

historically used this this trick

marrying Hindu women to make their own

numbers

larger and if this is not stopped then

very soon Indian Hindus will become a

minority in their own

land so even if it was a voluntary act

between two adults it had to be

prevented and some BJP States came up

with these laws

[Music]

wow and these types of of actions were

surely you know on some people's minds

during this election and I want to look

now at the election because um many

people were surprised by the results

Modi had

expressed optimism that the BJP would

gain seats in fact the BJP ended up

losing dozens of seats their coal

Coalition makes the majority but the BJP

no longer has the majority right what

went through your head when you saw

these election

results were you surprised not after my

election travels in May I had sensed it

and I wrote a column uh I think

published on May 14th or 15th and I had

sensed a change through by traveling and

talking to several hundred people what

did you sense in those conversations so

what I discovered most most

surprisingly while talking to average

Indian citizens not the elite that they

were worried about what might happen to

the Constitution and they were worried

about serious constitutional changes one

worry of course was that affirmative

action for the lower class might

disappear and of course the Muslim

minority was very worried about Muslims

being turned into second class citizens

and Hindu Prime

legally established a very important uh

point you raised if Modi had returned to

power with BJP in a majority well modi's

call was for 370 seats out of

543 what was the logic of that call the

underlying logic became very clear for

2/3 of India's Parliament leaving out

the lower Upper House amounts to

364 370 means he wanted 2/3 of seats

going to the BJP why do you need 2/3 of

seats you can initiate serious

Constitutional Amendments including

turning India Constitution into a Hindu

nationalist document and establishing

Hindu Primacy legally enough people from

the lower rungs of Indian Society lower

Hindu cast

including dalits the lowest Hindu

cast who have affirmative action and the

low Hindu cast also have affirmative

action Constitution legally and

Muslims so the combination of Muslims

theit and lower class defeated Modi so

the concern for the Constitution is a

very important new development at the at

the level of mass

politics so the election itself has

Maybe revealed something about the state

of India's politics and Society but I

wonder what do you expect to be the

biggest changes now in terms of how

India is governed what effect will this

election itself have on the country so

several things can be said about that

first ideological Purity turned into

policy and governance will have to be

compromised modified seriously ly

diluted because Modi is an alliance and

the alliance parties are not committed

to that ideology in fact one of the very

important ones is committed to something

called a cast census the cast system in

India divides Hindus into groups that

exist within a religious and social

hierarchy a cast and a cast census would

bring light to some of the details of

this hierarchy which Modi never wanted

because if you do a cast census you will

know which Hindu cast have what share of

the

resources who is more educated who is

less educated by how much who has what

kinds of assets to put it simply what is

the level of privilege enjoyed by which

group and what is the level of

deprivation suffered by witch groups the

BJP has always been against that and

Hindu nationalists in general including

the RSS the parent organiz always been

against that because they believe the

more you talk about cast Politics the

greater the attack on Hindu Unity so

this is one reason uh why you should

expect the ideological

Purity to be seriously diluted second

India under Modi became less and less

Federal

more and more

centralized power was concentrated in

his hands in his office I think one can

safely say the prime minister's office

in India has never been as powerful the

way Mr Modi started controlling India's

FBI called CBI India's Election

Commission which is an independent body

independent constitutional body the

those parts of the poity which are

supposed to check the executive and

executive misconduct and have been

constitutionally set up were all falling

under his

control and losing their executive

oversight function they were becoming an

arm of the executive that will have to

go now and federalism also will see a

bit of Revival not not returning to its

older Health but when you have

coalitional governments in India where a

national party depends on Regional

parties for its survival some parties

are National others are state-based so

once you have a coalition with

state-based parties the state rights the

state desires start becoming more

prominent politically all the changes

you just described or potential changes

we could expect to see what effect will

that have on sort of the the treatment

and and marginalization of India's

Muslim population do you do you think so

it is almost certain

now that the Hindu nationalist political

aggression towards the Muslim minority

will have to go down it has the

potential of breaking up the ruling

Coalition one very important member of

the Coalition party in the Coalition is

committed to minority rights in its

state so this can be a deal breaker so

it'll have to go down

let's turn to what this election means

for the world and maybe let's start with

the United States and India's

relationship what does this election

mean for that

relationship India and United States

have been coming closer and closer and

closer India is not a formal Ally of um

Washington the defense collaboration ET

do not touch the level of NATO

collaborations

right however short of an alliance India

is as close to the United States today

as any country can be and that will not

be affected either by Modi regaining

power as a Hindu

supremacist which is most unlikely to

happen or when he is an alliance as is

true now India is viewed by Washington

as a counterweight to

Beijing that logic that that

geopolitical logic will not be affected

by any changes in Indian

Po and uh Mr Biden in his congratulatory

note to Modi has said roughly that as we

wrap up I wanted to zoom out even a

little bit more to this Global Trend we

have touched on of of nationalist strong

men type figure some that are more

easily comparable to Modi others less so

but this election I think many people

have seen it as as something of a a

victory for the opponents of this type

of of movement and this type of leader

do you think we can or should read into

this election at all for a sense of if

this type of politics is maybe losing

steam almost certainly that is true

because of India's uh size and uh the

fact that it's the largest democracy in

the world and the fact that Modi became

an international figure if Modi had lost

power

completely then it would have been

called an earthquake at this point it's

a big

[Music]

shakeup while this election may not have

triggered a political earthquake there

is one election later this year whose

results could but we can't be sure about

what will happen in America in November

a lot in the world will turn on that if

Mr Trump comes back to Power it's

International

ramifications will be very

different and while what we saw in India

was maybe not an earthquake in the eyes

of vsh we have yet to see its full

effects as politics are reconfigured in

many parts of the world what has

happened in India will play a

role well ashutosh V thank you so much

for talking with us it was a pleasure

talk to

you this episode was produced by me Dan

Richards and Zack Hirsch our engineer is

Eric Emma our theme music is by Henry

Bloomfield with additional music by The

Blue Dot

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[Music]