What is the Role of Imagination in Prayer?

Summary

The video script discusses the Orthodox Christian perspective on imagination, stating it as a low function of the soul prone to misuse by the devil post the fall of Adam and Eve. It contrasts this with the Western spiritual practices like the rosary and Stations of the Cross, which use imagination. The speaker emphasizes the importance of prayer and the lives of the Saints over cultivating imagination, especially in children, to avoid delusion and maintain a grounded spiritual life. They also touch upon discerning divine visions from temptations, highlighting the need for humility and spiritual guidance.

Takeaways

• 📜 The script discusses the use of imagination in Western spiritual practices compared to Orthodox spirituality, highlighting that the latter discourages it during prayer.
• 🚫 Imagination is considered a low function of the soul and a playground for the devil to deceive people, according to Orthodox teachings mentioned in the script.
• 🧩 The fall of Adam and Eve is identified as the starting point for the use of imagination, along with other things like sexual relations, which are also said to have begun post-fall.
• 🛍️ While things like sexual relations are a result of the Fall, they are redeemed and blessed by God for the continuation of the human race.
• 🙅‍♂️ The Orthodox spiritual teaching is clear in rejecting the use of imagination during prayer due to the risk of delusion and deception.
• 👤 Saints and spiritual leaders warn against believing in dreams and visions without discernment, emphasizing the importance of guidance from spiritual fathers.
• 👁️ There are instances where God communicates through dreams and visions to the righteous, but these are discerned and confirmed by spiritual authorities.
• 🧒 The script advises against cultivating imagination in children, especially before establishing a strong foundation in prayer and the lives of the Saints.
• 📚 It suggests that the focus for children should be on reality and the teachings of the Saints, rather than on imaginative tales or allegories.
• 🎮 The modern tendency to escape into fantasy through gaming and movies is seen as a form of spiritual destruction and a departure from reality.
• 🏆 The script calls for maintaining a clear hierarchy in spiritual life, emphasizing the importance of prayer and reality over imagination.

Q & A

What is the main concern about using imagination in Orthodox spirituality as discussed in the script?

The main concern is that the use of imagination in prayer is not compatible with Orthodox spirituality and is considered dangerous, as it can lead to delusion and deception by the devil.

According to the script, what are some things that came into use after the fall of Adam and Eve?

Imagination and sexual relations are mentioned as things that came into use after the fall of Adam and Eve.

How does Orthodox spirituality view the redemption of sexual relations post the fall?

Orthodox spirituality acknowledges that while sexual relations came into existence after the fall, they are redeemed and blessed by God, especially within the context of marriage and for the continuation of the human race.

What is the stance of the Orthodox Church on the use of imagination during prayer?

The Orthodox Church advises against using imagination during prayer, as it can lead to false visions and spiritual delusions.

What advice is given by the script regarding the interpretation of dreams and visions in the spiritual life?

The script advises not to believe in or seek out dreams and visions, and to always discern whether they are of God through the guidance of a spiritual father.

How does the script differentiate between the use of imagination in daily life and its use in prayer?

The script differentiates by stating that while we naturally have images in our minds in daily life, cultivating imagination during prayer is not encouraged as it can be misleading.

What is the script's view on the use of allegory and imaginative tales in education, especially for children?

The script suggests that cultivating imagination through allegory and imaginative tales should not be done before establishing a strong prayer life and understanding of the reality of the lives of the Saints, especially for children under 13 or 15.

Why is it important to establish a prayer life and understanding of the lives of the Saints before cultivating imagination in children according to the script?

It is important because it helps children to live in reality and avoid being misled by the fantasy world, which can interfere with their spiritual growth and prayer life.

What does the script suggest about the spiritual dangers of living in an imaginative or fantasy world?

The script suggests that living in an imaginative or fantasy world can be spiritually destructive, as it can lead to an escape from reality and hinder one's spiritual life.

How does the script address the issue of discerning true spiritual experiences from false ones?

The script emphasizes the importance of discernment and seeking guidance from spiritual fathers to determine whether experiences such as visions are of God.

What is the script's perspective on the use of imagination in the context of Western spiritual systems and Orthodox spirituality?

The script suggests that Western spiritual systems may not make the same distinctions as Orthodox spirituality regarding the use of imagination, which can lead to confusion and potential spiritual pitfalls.

Outlines

00:00

😇 Orthodox Spirituality and the Role of Imagination

The speaker discusses the incompatibility of imagination with Orthodox spirituality, particularly in prayer practices such as the rosary, Stations of the Cross, and Ignatius of Loyola's spiritual exercises. It is stated that imagination is considered a lower function of the soul, prone to misuse by negative forces. The fall of Adam and Eve is cited as the origin of imagination, and sexual relations are mentioned as another aspect that came into existence post-fall. The importance of discerning between divine visions and delusions is highlighted, with the emphasis on not seeking or encouraging such experiences. The Orthodox approach to prayer and spiritual growth is contrasted with Western practices, emphasizing the avoidance of imagination during prayer to prevent delusion.

05:03

🧐 The Saints' Perspective on Imagination in Prayer and Daily Life

This paragraph delves into the Orthodox perspective on the use of imagination, distinguishing between prayer and other aspects of life. While imagination is not inherently condemned, its use during prayer is discouraged to avoid spiritual delusions. The speaker advises against cultivating imagination in children, especially before establishing a strong foundation in prayer and the reality of the lives of the Saints. The potential negative impact of imaginative tales and allegory in education is discussed, with a preference for grounding children in reality and humility. The speaker also touches on the broader cultural impact of imagination, including its role in entertainment and escapism, and contrasts this with the Orthodox spiritual path.

10:04

🎮 The Dangers of Excessive Imagination and Escapism

The final paragraph addresses the broader societal implications of cultivating imagination, particularly in the context of modern entertainment such as gaming and movies. The speaker warns of the spiritual dangers of using imagination as an escape from reality, suggesting that it can be destructive to spiritual life. However, the use of imagination in certain contexts, such as understanding icons or writing, is not rejected outright, as long as it is kept within proper bounds and does not overshadow the importance of prayer and spiritual connection. The speaker concludes by reiterating the importance of maintaining a balanced approach to imagination in the context of Orthodox spiritual practice.

Keywords

💡Imagination

Imagination is the cognitive faculty that allows us to form mental images, ideas, and concepts that are not present to our senses. In the context of the video, it is presented as a complex concept that, while a natural human ability, is considered potentially dangerous when used in prayer within Orthodox spirituality. The speaker emphasizes that imagination is seen as a tool that can be misused, leading to delusion and deception, especially when it comes to spiritual practices.

💡Creativity

Creativity refers to the use of imagination or original ideas to produce something new and valuable. The script briefly touches on the idea that 'good imagination' might be linked to creativity, but it differentiates between the two by suggesting that the kind of imagination used for creativity is not the same as the kind that could be problematic in spiritual contexts.

💡Orthodox Spirituality

Orthodox Spirituality is the spiritual practice and beliefs within the Orthodox Christian tradition. The video discusses how the use of imagination in prayer is not compatible with Orthodox spirituality, as it is viewed as a post-Fall human faculty that can lead to spiritual delusions and is therefore forbidden.

💡Fall of Adam and Eve

The Fall of Adam and Eve refers to the biblical story of the first humans' disobedience to God, leading to their expulsion from the Garden of Eden. In the script, it is mentioned that certain human faculties, including imagination, came into use only after this event, marking a shift from a pre-Fall state of purity.

💡Sexual Relations

Sexual relations are mentioned in the script as another aspect of human life that came into existence after the Fall. The speaker discusses the Orthodox view that sexual relations in their current form are a result of the Fall but also emphasizes that they have been redeemed and sanctified by God within the context of marriage.

💡Delusion

Delusion refers to a false belief or impression that is not based in reality. In the video, the term is used to describe the potential spiritual danger of using imagination in prayer, as it can lead to false spiritual experiences and beliefs that are not grounded in truth.

💡Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola

These are a set of Christian meditations and contemplative practices developed by St. Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the Jesuits. The script mentions that such exercises, which may involve the use of imagination, are not compatible with Orthodox spirituality.

💡St. Joseph the Hesychast

St. Joseph the Hesychast is a modern Orthodox saint known for his spiritual teachings and experiences. The script references his teachings on not believing in dreams and visions without discernment, emphasizing the importance of spiritual guidance in interpreting such experiences.

💡Discernment

Discernment in a spiritual context refers to the ability to distinguish between what is of divine origin and what is not. The video discusses the need for discernment when it comes to spiritual experiences, such as visions and dreams, to avoid being misled.

💡Education

The script touches on the topic of education, particularly the use of imaginative tales in teaching young children. The speaker expresses concern about cultivating imagination at the expense of prayer and the study of the lives of the Saints, suggesting that this could lead to spiritual confusion.

💡Classical Education

Classical Education refers to an educational model that has its roots in ancient Greek and Roman pedagogy, often involving the study of literature, history, and philosophy. The video critiques the Western classical education model for not making the necessary distinctions between the spiritual and the imaginative, potentially leading to spiritual confusion.

Highlights

Imagination in Western spiritual systems is considered not compatible with Orthodox spirituality.

Imagination is viewed as a low function of the soul and a playground for the devil to deceive people.

Sexual relations are believed to have come into existence after the fall of Adam and Eve.

Despite being a result of the Fall, God redeems and blesses marriage and its role in human continuation.

Imagination is not to be used during prayer to avoid delusion according to patristic teachings.

Saints and spiritual warriors warn against believing in dreams and visions without discernment.

Discernment is necessary to differentiate divine visions from those that are not of God.

Elder S FR of Katakia had a vision of Christ, which was confirmed by his spiritual father as divine.

Saints emphasize humility and rejection of self-worth in the face of divine encounters.

Imagination should not be cultivated during prayer but can be used in everyday life.

Cultivating imagination in children under 15 is discouraged to prevent them from living in a fantasy world.

The importance of establishing a prayer life and understanding the lives of Saints in children's education.

Allegory and imaginative tales are not recommended for young children's spiritual education.

The potential negative impact of modern entertainment on spiritual life and the escape from reality.

The distinction between using imagination in pedagogy and its proper context in spiritual life.

The importance of maintaining a hierarchy in spiritual life and not being misled by Western classical education.

The need for discernment in spiritual life to avoid being undermined by inappropriate cultivation of imagination.

Transcripts

next question is there such a thing as

good imagination the kind that leads to

creativity or would we call that

something

different so I think this is this stems

from the post that we made was it today

or yesterday uh father Sarah from Rose

and I think I have it here um so let's

read it it says in conversation

in conversation father Sim

explained that the use of imagination in

Western spiritual systems of

meditation Visa while saying the rosary

reciting the Stations of the Cross or

doing the spiritual exercises of

Ignatius of Leola was not compatible

with Orthodox

spirituality and was forbidden because

imagination came into use only after the

fall of Adam and Eve it is one of the

lowest functions of the soul and the

favorite playground playground of the

devil who can and does use human

imagination in order to deceive and

mislead even well-meaning people that's

that's the quote we put

on uh the internet today and I know

there's a lot of people reacting mostly

Roman Catholics probably are being

reacting because they're they're praying

the rosary they're doing the Stations of

the Cross they might be doing the

spiritual exercises of Leola F saying

something really simple and basic in

Orthodox patristic literature he's not

saying something strange or bizarre here

very basic all right so imagination when

the use of

imagination in

prayer in prayer is not compatible with

Orthodox spiritual allity and was

forbidden because imagination came into

use only after the fall of Adam and Eve

so my question to you is anything else

come into use after the fall of Adam and

Eve besides imagination what do we got

let's think of something a lot of people

don't know this sexual relations came in

after the fall did you know that I've

heard Orthodox priests say that's not

true yes it is there was no sexual

relations before the fall they lived as

brother and sister they were not having

relations before the fall so what

happens to the relations does God just

say it's part of the Fall

nothing can do about it or does he

redeem it bless it and give it even in

the

fall the blessing of the Lord clearly he

blessed marriage and and marriage

clearly has it's at the heart of it the

continuation of the race of man in

childbearing and that's Inseparable from

the intimacy and the unity of the couple

those two things are together right so

the Lord

even though things are the result of the

Fall he can and does make use of them

for and redeems them now the

imagination is not to be used during

prayer that's very clear from the

patristic teaching it is very dangerous

if you start imagining things you will

fall into delusion almost certainly you

don't and you reject it in fact if you

read the writings of St Joseph the hesus

and all the great hesus and all the

great warriors of the spirit they say

absolutely do not believe your dreams do

not

believe visions do not do not accept

these things do not try to encourage

them and bring them on do not seek them

out right does that mean they don't have

visions no they have them does that mean

they don't the dreams are never ever

ever used by the Lord they are so how do

we discern well that's a that's a whole

lecture that I can't give you right now

and we'd have to pour over the text of

the fathers but there is a discernment a

clear discernment between that which is

of

god from for instance the dreams are you

we have dreams in the scriptures right

where they're and we have in the lives

of the Saints where they're not really

asleep they're kind of half asleep and

then they have these Visions they have

these appearances of saints we have S FR

of katakia for instance just separated

his memory on the new calendar February

27th two days ago and he see he saw the

Lord just like Abraham saw him he said

three were coming at him and in the

middle was Christ and he embraced Christ

and he's and there's a video online you

can watch it and it's actually I think

English subtitles Elder s AR

Elder weeping remembering the vision of

Christ that he had all right so he went

immediately to his spiritual father said

is this of God and the spiritual father

said this is of God and this is the

beginning of a spiritual life uh and

Grace that you have yet to imagine he

said saying Joseph hisus so there are

there are times for those few that God

blesses and we're almost in all humility

we have to admit we are not those people

right we are weak we are worldly we are

slothful we don't pray nearly as much so

we're assuming immediately who am I for

God to come to visit me who am I for God

to appear to me right so immediately

we're going to stand and say nope that's

not of God because I am worthy for God

to come he went to Joseph and he went to

the various right he appeared through to

the righteous and the Saints and but I'm

not a saint I'm not righteous so I

immediately reject that as a Temptation

and the Saints and the Saints say God

will come again and again until to make

it very clear he'll speak through your

spiritual father he'll come if it's

really of God you your rejection of it

will not be taken uh let's say wrongly

the Lord will praise actually The Humble

man who says no I can't possibly have

saints so so and so appear to be so The

Stance of the Saints with regard to

imagination in the realm of prayer is

very clear they reject it during prayer

now can they use it to to do they

imagine things in other words literally

what the word means to put an image in

front like create an image in your mind

yeah of course we do that all the time

we do that

constantly is that is that condemned no

it's not condemned it' be like

condemning our life like we're

constantly having images in our mind

whether awake or sleep we we create

these images in our mind we that's not

absolutely rejected right

obviously but we don't cultivate it we

don't use it during

prayer uh and and I would say that what

one of the things I think is problematic

is when we see it being cultivated and

used in education with small

children I don't see that as a good idea

so for instance I would teach personally

and I have if you've seen my lectures on

this not to

introduce uh not to

introduce to children under the age of

let's say 15 or

13 uh these very imaginative tales that

are very impressive like toen or CS

Lewis I would not personally encourage

them why because I don't want them to I

don't want them to cultivate the

imagination and then live in this

imaginative world and then have a

difficulty going and praying right first

and foremost lay down the prayer life

the first five to 10 years of the life

should be two things prayer and the

lives of the Saints reality hard fast

reality we want to live in reality

because reality is God when am I not in

reality when I'm full of

Pride the proud man is in delusion he's

not in reality who's in reality The

Humble man we don't want to cultivate in

our little children imagination which

brings them into a fantasy world uh and

and then they they're going to have

difficulty going into prayer right

should you later on use allegory and all

the yeah as teaching methods for for

older children I don't think it's a

problem I don't think it should be

cultivated before prayer in the place of

prayer and in the place of the reality

of the lives of the Saints so what

happens today is that we think the

Saints Li Liv and and their their the

Miracles and all that happens is

fanciful in mythology and then we become

enamored with mythology and the and the

token and and and the

rest what there's something wrong here

we're not in we don't have the right

order of things right so this is what's

going on today there's a lot of

Confusion And you have to walk that

Royal path that middle way of

understanding when and how there's no

easy you know quick answer everybody

wants a quick black and white rejection

acceptance no imagination imagination no

no it's it there is limited in this time

in this space we use it pedagogic but

for prayer which is should be our bread

and butter which is our daily life right

we do not cultivate the imagination

right hopefully that answers you and the

hierarchy of things is very clear to you

what we should give to our children is

very clear to you and not be taken in by

this the this even the so-called

classical education of the West which

does not have these these uh

distinctions doesn't seem to apply these

things to their spiritual life I mean

Western Christians largely what I just

told you I don't think what would

necessarily agree with or they're not

hearing it for the most part might be

exceptions and so we're in this climate

where which is not Orthodox and that and

we're sucking in and and breathing in

these ways and we might be undermined in

our spiritual life because we are we are

undermined in times uh if you cultivate

the imagination and you live in I mean

there are people who want to live in

that world like they're they're escaping

into that world many people like many

children what do you think all the the

the gaming and all the the incessant

like binging on movies and all that it's

escape from

reality that kind of escape from reality

that kind of imagination that kind of

cultivation is very destructive that's

spiritual life right uh

but having images in our mind about you

know from icons or from uh you know as a

as a writer of a book or something

that's not to be

rejected as as long as it's understood

properly in its proper context and the

hierarchy is kept that would be my

answer I don't

[Music]

know my God is

[Music]

the

the