5 Ways to Hack Your Mind For Greater Success

Summary

このスクリプトは、成功への道についての議論です。ポッドキャストのホストであるマーク・マンソンとドリューは、心の研究に基づく5つのトピックについて話し合い、成功への道を探求します。彼らは自己の限界を超えることを奨励し、他人の意見に影響されず、自分にできることにフォーカスすることで、より成功を収めることができると述べています。彼らはまた、習慣化された生活から外れ、新しいことを挑戦することで、新たな可能性を見出す方法も提案しています。彼らの会話は、人生における成功と意義を見つけるための洞察に満ちています。

Takeaways

• 🤔 成功への道は多岐に渡り、特にポッドキャストのホストであるマーク・マンソンとドリューが語り合う中で、心理学研究に基づく成功へのアプローチを探求している。
• 🔍 成功へのアプローチとして、苦痛を楽しむこと、つまり自分が耐えられる犠牲と他人には辛いことで競争優位を得ることの重要性が強調されている。
• 🎯 成功のためには、自分に特有の強みを探し、それを集中的に活用することが肝心だという視点が示されている。
• 🧘‍♂️ 自己の感情や他人の反応、過去の出来事など、コントロールできないことには無駄なエネルギーを費やさず、コントロール可能なことに注力することが勧められている。
• 🚫 自分がコントロールできないことには煩悩を持ちすぎず、それらに対する反応をコントロールすることが肝心であると語られている。
• 💡 成功するためには、自分の注意をコントロールし、メディアやSNSなどの情報への摂取を意図的に選ぶことが重要とされている。
• 💖 愛することも選択によるものであり、他人に対する共感や受け入れ方を意識的に変えることができるという考えが示されている。
• 🌟 成功するためには、大きな目標を設定し、それを達成するための長い目で計画することが重要であるとアドバイスされている。
• 🛑 自動操縦モード（autopilot）をオフにし、日常のルーティンから外れ、新たな経験や挑戦を積極的に受け入れることが成長につながると示唆されている。
• 🚀 成功のためには、10倍の成長を目指す「10xマインドセット」を持つことが重要であり、自分自身の可能性をはるかに超える目標を設定することが奨励されている。

Q & A

ポッドキャストのホストであるマーク・マンソンは、成功するために重要な要素は何だと述べていますか？

マークは、成功するために重要な要素として、自分がコントロールできることに焦点を当てること、そして自分自身の容量を過小評価しない大きな目標を設定することが重要だと述べています。

ドリューはなぜ「自分がコントロールできること」に焦点を当てるべきだと考っていますか？

ドリューは、自分自身がコントロールできることに焦点を当てることで、時間とエネルギーを生産的な方向に最適化し、効果的に使用することができると説明しています。

ポッドキャストで話されている「10倍マインドセット」とは何を意味しますか？

「10倍マインドセット」とは、目標を設定する際に、自分が達成できると思われている範囲をはるかに超える大きな目標を設定する考え方を指しています。

ドリューがポッドキャストで述べた「自動操縦オフ」とはどのような意味ですか？

「自動操縦オフ」とは、日常生活におけるルーティンや習慣から外れ、新しい経験や挑戦に開放的に自分をさらすことを意味しています。

マークはなぜ「より多くのことを短期間で焦点に当てることは避けるべき」だとアドバイスしていますか？

マークは、多岐にわたるタスクに焦点を当てる代わりに、少数のことに長期にわたって焦点を当てることで、より深い洞察力と創造性を得られるとアドバイスしています。

ポッドキャストで話されている「自己控制の中心」とは何を意味していますか？

「自己控制の中心」とは、人が自分の感情や行動をコントロールできる範囲を持つという心理学の概念で、より成功的で生産的な生活を送るために重要な要素です。

ドリューはポッドキャストで何を理由に、習慣や日常からの変化が必要ないと述べていますか？

ドリューは、変化が必要ないと述べている理由として、新しい経験や挑戦によって洞察力、成長、興奮、意味、目的が生まれる可能性があると説明しています。

マークはポッドキャストで述べた「10年後の自分がどのような姿になるか」を想像することで、何を得られますか？

マークは、10年後の自分がどのような姿になるかを想像することで、目標達成のための最適な方法を見つけ、時間を有利に活用することができると述べています。

ドリューはポッドキャストで何を理由に、人間関係における「10倍ルール」はうまくいかないことがあると述べていますか？

ドリューは、人間関係においては「10倍ルール」がうまくいかないと述べており、関係をビジネスのように運営しすぎると、その逆効果になる可能性があると説明しています。

ポッドキャストで話されている「多面性」とは何を意味していますか？

「多面性」とは、多くの分野に興味を持ち、さまざまな知識やスキルを持つことの重要性を指しており、現代においては特に重要なスキルとされています。

Outlines

00:00

🤔 自己の強みを見つける

第1段落では、成功への道を模索する会話を展開しています。インターネットには様々な成功のコツが紹介されているが、それらは実際には役立たないことが多いと指摘。そこで、心理学の研究に基づく、成功に向けた脳をハックする方法を5つのトピックで紹介します。自分の親が誇りに思うような成功を収めようとしていると話している。

05:02

🐶 忍耐強く続けることが大事

第2段落では、警察のK-9ユニットが犬を訓練し、選ぶ方法について話しています。犬が速さで最も早く玩具を見つけるのではなく、諦めずに探し続ける犬を選ぶという趣旨の話を通して、諦めずに続けることが成功につながるというメッセージが伝えられています。

10:03

🧠 感情と自己規律

第3段落では、感情をコントロールできないが、反応はコントロールできるという考えを紹介。自己規律は、人間の知的な部分が動物的な部分を飼い驯らすことに比喩して説明。ス多葛学派の考え方として、自分がコントロールできることとできないことに焦点を当てることの重要性が強調されています。

15:04

📺 メディア消費と自己責任

第4段落では、メディア消費について議論しており、人々は自分が嫌いでもニュースやソーシャルメディアのアルゴリズムに従って消費してしまう傾向があると指摘。しかし、自分が嫌いなものには関与しない、ブロックするなどの選択肢があるとアドバイス。また、恋愛についても、誰を愛するのも選択としてコントロールできると主張。

20:06

🎯 自分のコントロールできることに焦点を当てる

第5段落では、成功への道で重要なのは自分のコントロールできることに焦点を当てることと、コントロールできないことには無駄に時間を費やさないこと。内部的なコントロールの重要性が強調されており、それは多くのポジティブな人生の結果につながると述べています。

25:07

🚀 自動操縦解除で新しい可能性を探求する

第6段落では、ルーティンから外れ、新しい経験に開放的に取り組むことの重要性が語られています。ルーティンに従っていると停滞してしまうため、意図的に難しさや混沌をもたらすことで成長と洞察を得ることができるとアドバイス。

30:08

🌟 10倍のマインドセットを持つ

第7段落では、大きな目標を持つことの重要性が語られており、私たちは自分自身を制限しがちだと指摘。10倍のマインドセットを持つことで、自分の能力を最大限に引き出すことができると説く。また、関係性においても10倍の目標を設定することで、より深い結びつきを実現できると提案。

35:08

📚 短期間で多くのことをするのではなく、少数のことに集中する

第8段落では、少数のことに長期にわたって集中することで生産性を高めることができると説く。カウンターのアドバイスとして、多くのことに興味を持つことの利点も紹介されており、さまざまな分野の知識を結びつけることで創造性を得ることができると指摘。

40:11

👋 成功の定義を再考する

最終段落では、成功について再考する必要性が浮上している。成功の定義が誤っているかもしれないと話しており、成功について深く掘り下げる必要があると結び付けています。また、リスナーにポッドキャストを購読し、コメントやレビューを残すよう呼び掛けています。

Keywords

💡成功

成功はビデオの中心となるテーマの一つであり、主人公が追求している状態を表しています。ビデオでは、成功を達成するための様々なアプローチやハックについて議論されていますが、主人公はそれらが自分には効果がなかったと感じています。例えば、「成功のためのハック」というフレーズは、主人公が過去に試したが効果がなかった方法を指しています。

💡心理学的研究

心理学的研究は、ビデオのテーマに密接に関連しており、成功に向けた心理的なアプローチを探求しています。ビデオでは、心理学的な研究に基づく方法が、主人公が成功を達成する可能性を高めるための鍵になると示唆されています。例えば、「心理的研究はあなたの脳を成功に向かってハックすることができる」と述べています。

💡マゾヒズム

マゾヒズムは、ビデオ内で成功と関連する一つの概念として紹介されています。ビデオでは、成功するためには自己犠牲的な側面を持つことがあると指摘されており、マゾヒズム的傾向を持つ領域で優位性が生まれるという視点から話されています。例えば、「私たちの生活の特定の分野ではマゾヒズム的になる」との例が挙げられています。

💡競争優位

競争優位は、ビデオ内で重要なビジネス概念として触れられており、成功への道を開く一つの戦略として位置づけられています。ビデオでは、他の人々が苦手とする分野で自分は優れていることが、競争優位を獲得する鍵となっていると述べています。例えば、「あなたは他の人々ほど耐えられない出来事は何ですか？」という問いかけがその一例です。

💡自己責任

自己責任はビデオのメッセージに核心的な概念であり、成功への道のりの上で自分自身がどの程度責任を負うかが重要だと示唆されています。ビデオでは、自己責任を負うことで、自分の感情や他人への反応をコントロールすることができると語られています。例えば、「自己責任は、あなたがコントロールできることを強制的に取ることになる」との文が引用されています。

💡注意喚起

注意喚起は、ビデオ内でメディア消費やソーシャルメディアのアルゴリズムに対する個人の注意をコントロールする能力に関連する概念です。ビデオでは、自己の注意をコントロールすることの重要性が強調されており、それが成功への道に寄与すると示されています。例えば、「今日のメディア環境では、あなたがブロックしないで、尊重しない人や好きな人以外のビデオを見ないで、アルゴリズムに注意を払わないこと」がその一例です。

💡愛

愛はビデオ内で選択と感情との関係についての議論のキーポイントとして触れられています。ビデオでは、愛は単なる感情的反応ではなく、より深い選択と共感に基づくものであると主張されています。例えば、「愛は選択で、誰を愛するかどうかはあなた次第」との文が挙げられています。

💡積極性

積極性は、ビデオ内で成功への道のりに重要な心理的状態として提唱されています。積極的な姿勢を持つことは、自己成長と成功に向けた洞察力を燃やし、意味や目的を持たせることができるとビデオは語っています。例えば、「あなた自身の生活に少し混沌を注入しろ」とのアドバイスがその一例です。

💡10倍のマインドセット

10倍のマインドセットは、ビデオ内で大きな目標を設定し、それを実現するための思考の枠組みとして紹介されています。ビデオでは、私たちは自分自身に設定する可能性の限界を超えることを目指すべきであり、10倍の成果を目指すことが重要だと強調されています。例えば、「大きな目標を持つことは、あなたをより遠くへ連れて行く」との主張がビデオ内で示されています。

💡自己啓発

自己啓発はビデオのテーマに関連し、個人の内面に焦点を当てた成長と変化のプロセスを指します。ビデオでは、自己啓発の概念が成功への道のりにおいて重要な役割を果たしていると示唆されており、自己啓発的なアプローチは個人の潜在能力を引き出し、成功につながると語られています。例えば、「自己啓発はあなたの人生においてポジティブな結果をもたらす」との文がビデオ内で引用されています。

Highlights

寻找你享受的痛苦：我们都有某些受虐倾向的领域，这可能是我们的优势所在。

发掘你不介意的困难任务：找到那些别人讨厌但你不介意的任务，这将成为你的竞争优势。

享受创造过程：即使作品不完美，创造和改进的过程本身能带来满足感。

对批评的容忍：学会不因他人的负面评论而受到影响，保持自我。

学习的痛苦：享受学习过程中的挑战和不适，这有助于个人成长。

对无聊的容忍：高忍耐力可以让人深入研究和解决问题。

不放弃的精神：坚持到底，即使在困难面前也不轻易放弃。

选择性关注：专注于你能够控制的事情，忽略你无法控制的事情。

情绪反应的控制：虽然不能控制情绪，但可以控制对情绪的反应。

媒体消费的选择：通过选择性消费媒体，影响媒体产出的质量。

爱的选择：在人际关系中，爱和喜欢往往是一种选择，而非无法控制的情感。

10倍心态：设定远大目标，挑战自我，超越限制。

长期视角：从长远出发，思考如何利用时间来实现目标。

深度工作：专注于单一任务，减少任务切换带来的心理负担。

专家与通才的辩论：在当今世界，通才能连接不同领域的知识。

专注于少数事物：减少关注的事物数量，专注于深入探索。

Transcripts

- Drew, I wanna be successful.

I'm really trying to get,

to get it together over here.

- You need to get it together, yeah.

- I, just things have not been falling my way

for the past 12 years at all. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

- You know, the internet is full of

a lot of hokey pieces of content

talking about life hacks and mind hacks and success hacks.

And you know, most of them involve

some configuration of alarm clocks and ice and bathtubs

- Mm-hmm - And,

yeah, they didn't really work for me.

So let's actually talk about

what the psychological research shows

can completely hack your brain

towards being more oriented towards success.

So we've got five topics here

and I want you to walk me through these,

and explain how I'm finally gonna be successful enough

that my mom is proud of me.

- Okay, I'm teaching you today, okay.

All right, let's do this.

- This wasn't on the job description

when you applied. - This was not.

This was not.

- I need a researcher, podcast producer,

and life coach. - And a life coach.

- [Narrator] The podcast that's saving the world

one fewer fuck at a time.

It's The Subtle Art of Not Giving a Fuck podcast

with your host, Mark Manson.

- Find the pain you enjoy.

- [Drew] Hmm.

- We all have a little bit of masochism in us.

There's like a certain area of our lives that

become masochistic to a certain degree.

And I personally think that

that's probably the area of our life that

we're gonna end up

having an advantage in. - Mm-hmm.

- Another way to think about it is just like

what is the bowl of shit that you don't mind eating

that most people do?

And a lot of this is, it's personality based,

like you don't teach yourself

to like a bowl of shit that you don't actually like.

Like there are gonna be some things

that you just naturally enjoy doing or don't mind doing

that most people fucking hate doing,

or it stresses them out, or it freaks them out,

or it scares the shit out of them.

Find those things

because that's gonna be your competitive advantage.

It's almost like, I think,

when thinking about skills or talent,

people again tend to focus almost entirely on the positive.

Like, what am I good at

that other people maybe aren't as good?

Even if you're good at something,

there's gonna be a lot of other people who are good at it,

but it's like,

what can you stomach that most other people can't?

- Mm-hmm. - Like, what's the bullshit

that you kind of secretly enjoy

that you get like a satisfaction out of

that most people don't.

And that's probably the secret sauce.

- Yeah. - You know?

And I think in my case, it's two things.

One is just I think the self-consciousness

or the anxiety and self-doubt

that comes with writing or creating in general,

I enjoy it to a certain extent.

Like, I just, I really love the creative process,

the actual process itself,

like not just like fantasizing about ideas,

but like actually making the thing and seeing how bad it is,

and then trying to make it better,

and seeing how bad that is

and then trying to make it better,

like that really enliven me.

And then I think the other thing

I think I'm just built for is,

I don't know, I don't really mind the haters in the feed,

like the bullshit, you know, - Yeah.

Yeah, you're good at that. - that come at me.

Like, I don't- - You don't let it bother you.

I mean, it affects you,

but you don't let it - Yeah.

- bother you, I think.

Yeah - Yeah.

It'll like ruin my lunch, but that's about it.

- And then you're over by lunch,

whereas me, I'm still thinking about

like that thing I fucked up 10 years ago, like.

So yeah, I totally get it.

- That's what's keeping you up at night.

- That's what's keeping me up at night.

No, for real.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I get that.

I think for me, I like the,

I think I'd call it like that, the pain of learning.

- Yeah. - For whatever reason,

I've always just like, I've just,

that's just one of my kind of core values is like learning.

And there's a lot of like discomfort

that comes with that too. - Mm-hmm.

- You know, that's what got me through school.

I don't think I was ever actually the smartest person.

I was just like, always like, so like,

I had to figure this out. - Mm-hmm.

- You know, I had to, I like to sit down and figure it out.

- Do you think your tolerance for boredom

is higher than most?

- Yeah, totally. - Yeah.

I believe that knowing the academic papers

I've sent to you to have you read

- Mm-hmm - instead of me,

I believe that.

- Yeah, oh, God.

If you get a good one of those, man, yeah.

It took hell, yeah.

- It's fucking rough, dude.

- Somebody called it, I like, what somebody,

I heard this years ago,

they call it ass power.

- Ass power? - You have those, yeah.

So you can sit your ass in a chair

- Yeah. - and like work through

just figuring shit out. - Yeah.

- And whether that's like an academic paper

or like some new software or something like that,

I love figuring out like a new program.

Like just get in there. - Oh.

- And like there's people who just hate that.

- Yeah. - Or like spreadsheets.

I get this is,

oh my God, this is, - Oh, yeah.

I'm with you there.

- I love that kind of stuff.

There was this story I heard years ago about this.

It was the state patrol.

I went to a talk for the state patrol

and they had a K-9 unit there.

- Okay. - And they were talking about

how they train and select dogs and everything like that.

So what they do is

they'll go out to a field, - Mm-hmm.

- and it's like full of just brush and,

you know, bushes and whatever.

And they take their favorite toy

and they'll throw it out there and it's hidden, buried.

They don't show them where it is or anything like that.

And they turn them loose.

And they don't select the dogs

that necessarily find it the fastest.

They select the dogs that don't quit.

- Hmm.

- Which I thought was really interesting.

And when I heard that,

I was like, yeah, - That's-

- I'm not the fastest or smartest dog.

I'm the one who won't quit until I find the ball.

- That's so interesting. - Yeah, I love that story.

So, yeah.

Yeah, that's- - How there's like,

there's so many areas of life

that applies to. - That are like that.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Whatever that is,

that seeking or that I got to figure this out,

I know there's an answer to this,

- Yeah. - and I have to figure it out.

Especially when I know there's an answer to something,

I'm like, I know this is figureoutable.

- Yeah. - I can do it.

It'd like, that sets me off.

- I feel like sometimes my advantage is just,

it's not even,

like I think people think that I don't give a fuck of

what other people think, - Mm-hmm.

- whereas it's more accurate to just say that

I'm oblivious to what other people think.

Like, I'm just so

in my own little world. - 100%.

- Like I remember I was in high school

and I'm like I'm super unathletic

and I went to a small school that

because there were so few kids,

we all had to

sign up for a sport. - Everybody did, yeah.

- So I signed up for cross-country,

'cause the only alternative was football

and I didn't wanna get shit knocked out of me.

So I signed up for cross-country,

even though I was a terrible runner.

And I was so fat and slow and out of shape.

I was the worst runner on the team by a large margin.

And I remember we went out for the first cross-country meet,

and I think it was like four or five miles or something.

I had never run that far in my life.

So we start to race, everybody runs out in front of me.

I'm just like trotting along.

I get maybe like two miles in,

and I'm exhausted, I just start walking.

And I'm walking and I'm walking.

I'm by myself for like 30, 40 minutes.

- Mm-hmm.

- The race that started after us begins

and those kids start passing me.

And I'm just like,

at this point I'm like way off in the woods

by myself, you know? - Yeah, yeah.

- And I'm still walking.

And like, I remember all these like,

high school girls are running past me and they're like,

don't give up, keep going.

And I was like, go fuck yourself.

And I just keep walking and walking and walking.

And like, finally I get to the finish line

after the next race had finished.

And it's literally just my dad and my coach there.

- Yeah.

- And I'm like, this sucks.

I wanna go home, whatever.

And so I go to school the next week

and we used to have these like announcements

and they kind of announce like the sports from that weekend.

And my coach gets up and he announces,

first of all, nobody on my school's team

placed or won anything,

and like everybody knew that. - Yeah.

- And, but then the cross-country coach gets up

in front of like the whole school.

It was like a hundred people, the whole school.

And he's like, I wanna give out an award today.

And I'm like, oh, maybe somebody did finish.

And he's like, he calls my name Mark Manson.

Everybody starts clapping.

And I'm like, are you like,

I thought he was trolling me.

I thought he was like trying to embarrass me.

And he told me it was,

he said it was the most inspirational thing

that he had ever seen. - What?

- Because he said that half of the team quit

after like two miles. - Oh, yeah, okay.

- And like nobody placed. - Yeah.

- And like, it was just this

horrendous and embarrassing showing

and I walked the entire route

and I let all the next race pass me and,

but the funny thing is

he was like telling me how inspirational it was.

And I remember I was sitting there like,

I went up and got like this like trophy or something.

I remember thinking, I was like,

it never occurred to me to even quit.

Like, I never even. - Yeah, yeah.

- It didn't even, I was just like, whatever,

okay, this race goes by, whatever.

Like, anyway it's.

Obliviousness can be an advantage.

- Yeah, no, for sure.

For sure.

Focus on what you can control

and ignore what you can't.

I think this one, to use your phrase,

people give too many fucks about the wrong things,

I think. - Right.

- And a lot of times what that is is that

we're trying to control things we just can't control.

- Yeah. - Right?

People's feelings, people's actions,

other people just in general. - Right.

- I think we try to do that a lot.

Those are kind of obvious ones for

if you're aging, you're getting older, stuff like that.

People worry about that kind of thing.

Worrying about the past,

you know, all these ones are pretty common.

I would say though, too, like your emotions,

you can't really control your emotions,

though you can control

your reaction to your emotions, right?

- I hate that term. - Okay.

- Control your emotions. - Yeah, yeah.

- I think it is a complete misnomer

and I think it really leads people astray.

- Yeah. - I could not tell you

how many emails I've gotten over the years of people saying,

how do I control my emotions?

And I'm like, you can't. - Mm-hmm.

- That it's the animal part of you.

It just happens.

And what you have to do is

take like the smart human part of you

and tame the animal part of you and be like,

don't shit on the carpet, bad dog, go to your room.

I mean, that is essentially just what self-discipline is.

- Yeah, yeah. - In a nutshell,

is kind of like the higher order your neocortex

like training and subduing your more animalistic side.

But yeah, I mean, this is the classic stoic thing, right?

Focus on what you can control,

be at peace with what you can't.

And I would throw in there

most things you can't control. - Right.

- So beware of obsessing too much

or getting too caught up in all the things

that are going on outside of you that,

that can simply be distracting or draining on you.

The emotional piece is super important.

You can't control the emotion,

but you can control the response to the emotion.

You can't control other people,

but you can control your response to other people, right?

Like, I can't control if a friend is an asshole,

but I can control

how I confront him. - Mm-hmm.

- I can control the conversation I have with him

around his behavior.

I can control whether I hang out with him again or not.

I hate to bring this back to responsibility.

It feels like we always fucking bring

everything back to responsibility.

But like that's

where the responsibility piece comes in of like

by focusing on what you can control,

you are then forced to take responsibility

for the things you can control,

because once you recognize

the things you can control and change,

then the only excuse for not changing is

that you didn't do anything.

- Yeah, yeah.

I've noticed a lot lately since I've, you know,

I've talked about my sleep problems a lot.

And a lot of times if I wake up in the middle of the night

and I can't go back to sleep,

my mind starts to turn. - Mm-hmm.

- And a lot of emotions start coming up during that too.

And it's usually like,

I'm worrying about something

and getting like real fatalistic about it.

And it's like, kind of,

it's pretty intense emotions sometimes too.

I've really trained myself to be like,

ah, this will pass. - Yeah.

- This too shall pass.

And that's the reaction I've chosen with that

that's helped me a lot.

And I go back to sleep a little bit better.

That's been part of my sleep journey this year too.

- Yup.

- Just doing that whole reframe like,

oh, this is a temporary thing.

It's like, tomorrow is not necessarily gonna suck

when I wake up or

my life is not gonna get any worse actually.

- Yeah. - This will pass,

I'm gonna let that go.

- You know, it's funny you bring that up.

Like, one of the best thing, you know,

as we've talked about before,

my wife Fernanda, - Mm-hmm.

- she's struggled with sleep her whole life.

One of the biggest things for her was

when she started meditating.

And what she realized, it was really interesting,

because I think a lot of people who struggle with sleep,

part of it is that they fall into that

doom loop of like, - Mm-hmm.

- you know, maybe you lay down,

you put your head on the pillow,

your mind starts worrying about something,

and then you realize your mind is worrying about something

and you're like, oh, God,

I'm worrying about something, I'm never gonna sleep.

And then you're like, - Yes, yes.

- then that kicks the loop in the gear

and you're like, well, now I'm worrying that I'm worrying.

Oh, God, now I'm worried about everything

and now I'm never gonna sleep. - Mm-hmm.

- And it becomes this kind of self-fulfilling prophecy.

And you know, she's not a huge meditator,

but one of the most effective things that she found was,

was simply meditating for 10 or 15 minutes before bed

because it helped her.

You know, if she put her head on the pillow,

that worrying thought came up,

it allowed her to just let that thought go

- [Drew] Mm-hmm.

- and not get caught in that loop.

And just by simply by not getting caught up in that loop,

it like made everything else flow much easier.

- Yeah, so those are things you can't control necessarily.

I think there's a few things that people can control

that they don't though too. - Okay.

- Things like boundaries.

- Yeah. - That sort of thing.

What you consume, - Mm-hmm.

- like media consumption.

I think people get caught up in, you know,

news cycles or whatever it is and they're like,

well, I can't control - Yes.

- all these crazy things going on in the world.

Yeah, you're right you can't,

but you can control

what you consume. - Yeah.

- and what you pay attention to.

- Can I just go on a tangent here?

- Oh, please.

I'll allow it.

So I have this weird thing, - Yeah?

- where bad TV shows, - Mm-hmm.

- I know all the platforms have analytics

and they're measuring watch time

and they're basing their production budgets

on watch time of previous shows.

So if I start watching a Netflix show and it's bad,

I turn it off as soon as I possibly can

because you don't wanna reward bad content, right?

It kills me when people I know are like,

yeah, that show was terrible.

And I'm like, yeah, I turned it off in episode one.

And they're like, I finished the whole season.

I'm like, stop doing that.

You're promoting bad behavior.

I'm like this particularly salient for me right now

because "3 Body Problem" came out recently

and it's one of my favorite sci-fi books,

favorite fiction series ever.

And the show was complete garbage.

And everybody I know watched the whole thing

and didn't like it.

And I'm like,

they're gonna make more. - Yeah.

- This is why we don't have nice things.

So anyway, don't finish bad Netflix shows.

Carry on.

- There is a larger conversation under that though.

Like the personal responsibility

around your media consumption.

If you don't like the landscape,

change your own behavior. - Yes.

- And that does have an impact.

I know it's small and whatever,

and it's on the individual level,

but it does have an impact.

And I think we all have a responsibility around that.

And again, that's paying attention

to what you can't control.

The biggest thing you can't control is your attention.

- Yeah, in today's media environment,

I mean, I joke about the Netflix thing,

but in seriousness,

like the social media algorithms that

the news companies rely upon, - Mm-hmm.

- they notice your engagement, right?

- Mm-hmm. - So it's like,

block them, stop following them, stop reading them,

stop clicking on articles,

stop watching videos of people you don't respect

or you don't like,

because that simply reinforces to all the algorithms that,

hey, we should show this to more people.

I feel like everybody should understand that in 2024,

but sometimes it seems like people don't.

Like if you hate something,

the best thing you can do is block it

and not engage with it. - Right.

I got another one for you.

This is an example that a lot of people

I think they don't have control over, but they do,

- Mm-hmm. - which is who you love.

I think that's more of a choice than most people think.

I think it's actually almost entirely a choice.

There's that whole like kind of a cliche like,

oh, you can't help who you love,

you can't help who you like.

And actually I think

there's a lot more control over that than we think.

And I first came across this idea actually

in Derek Sivers' book "How To Live."

- Mm-hmm. - And he had this

whole section on you can choose to love

anybody who's around you.

That is a choice you can make. - Yeah.

- In a relationship, it is.

It's a constant choice you make on who to love.

But it's also just like

if someone's around you, you don't even like them.

I think you could actually choose to like them eventually,

- Yeah. - and love them.

'Cause there's that emotional side

that we've already talked about you can't control.

- Yeah. - But I think

there's a deeper type of love

that you can control that you choose.

- I think you can choose to empathize.

- Okay.

- And I think you can choose

to take on the perspective of somebody completely openly

and nonjudgmentally. - Mm-hmm.

- If you do that in a very radical and compassionate way,

is that the same thing as love?

I don't know like, - Mm-hmm.

- as you know, the definition of love

is super murky, - Right.

- especially in the English language.

But I agree with you that your disposition towards somebody

is largely within your control.

And I would even say, so to your point,

those unconscious emotions that emerge,

you know, if you go on a date with somebody

and you just like find yourself completely infatuated

and kind of head over heels with them,

a lot of that is because they're reflecting back to you

certain values and characteristics

that you have chosen - Mm-hmm.

- to seek and prioritize.

I look back at this like,

I think back to

some of the women that I dated when I was younger

and it really did not go well.

And I can see that part of the reason it didn't go well is

because I was prioritizing the wrong things

in a partner that I look for.

I, like most young, immature people,

I prioritize

really superficial things. - Yeah, yeah.

- And that gets you in the trouble.

And I think as you get older,

you realize that you should deprioritize those things

and prioritize other, you know,

deeper, more intimate things.

And then that will be reflected in the emotions that emerge

around the right person so. - Okay, okay.

- That's a very long-winded way of saying

you're right, Drew.

How wise. - In some way, yeah.

- How wise. - Yeah, yeah.

Okay so yeah, how does this make you,

how does only focusing on what you can control

make you more successful?

- I think part of this is

it's almost like the essence of productivity of like

expending your time and energy on things

that will generate

positive change for you. - Mm-hmm.

- If you're expending most of your time and energy on

reacting to bullshit that's outside of your control,

then by definition that is

a waste of time and energy, right?

So I think it's almost like the crux of productivity is

this ability to focus on what's within your control

and then what's also like

the highest leverage thing within your control.

But some of it too is just like freeing up that

mental and emotional space. - Mm-hmm.

- Like not getting bogged down in distraction,

not getting bogged down in outrage

and emotional overreacting

and drama with people that

ultimately you kind of don't really care about.

It's almost like it frees up your energy

to be directed in the most efficient direction possible.

- Yeah, for sure, yeah.

I think too, there's the concept of locus of control

in psychology. - Yeah.

- You have an internal locus of control

where these are the things I can control

and you look for the things you can control

versus external locus of control,

these things are happening to me,

I have no control of it. - Mm-hmm.

- This trains you to kind of

find the things you do control in your environment

- Yeah. - and can have an impact on.

And like you just said, be more efficient with it.

- Yeah.

- And can generalize to other areas of your life.

- It always blew me away how much internal locus of control

just like maps onto almost

every positive life outcome. - Yeah, yeah.

- In the research like,

it's just happier, more successful, more productive,

better relationships,

like boom, boom, boom, boom.

You can go down the entire list

and it's generally internal locus of control.

So that's what we're here to do.

- Yeah, yeah. - Teach people

internal locus of control.

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So what's the next one?

- The next one, turn off the autopilot.

- Hmm.

- I need some help with this one, Mark.

- What's your autopilot?

- I'm very much a creature of habit.

- Yeah.

- And if they're healthy habit,

sure, that's fine. - Mm-hmm.

- But I just notice any change in my environment.

I don't like it, like, you know,

coming out here to LA and stuff like,

oh, I don't have my gym

and I don't have my, you know, my whatever,

my little coffee shop that I like.

- Oh, no. - All that kind of stuff.

And I definitely get into those routines

and I feel those kind of

safe, comfortable areas of my life that

I really like to retreat to. - Yeah.

- I feel like, I don't know,

I just feel like

you're way more open to experience than I am.

You know, way more, but quite a bit more.

- Sure. - And you see,

you're more adaptable with it.

I mean, that's kind of a personality thing, I think.

But I don't know.

I think there's also something to being able to just be

a little bit more spontaneous than I am sometimes.

- I personally feel like a certain amount of chaos

- Mm-hmm. - is probably optimal.

There's a great, like one of my favorite movies is

Christopher Nolan's "The Dark Knight."

And there's a scene with the Joker

where he is talking to Harvey Dent

and he says, inject a little bit of chaos into your life.

And I always love that line because it's,

I do feel like a modest amount of chaos is probably

more optimal than zero chaos. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

- Because it's,

I think a certain amount of unpredictability and spontaneity

can ignite a lot of insight, a lot of growth,

a lot of excitement and meaning and purpose.

And I don't know,

it just makes life a lot more interesting.

I also think you can kind of

intentionally inject that chaos yourself.

Like you don't have to do something crazy and destructive.

I think we can find unpredictability or

disrupt that routine or that autopilot

in a way that's effective.

Like I met, I was at a dinner recently and I met

a professional MMA fighter,

and she was saying that

once a year she gives herself a goal that feels impossible,

a physical goal

that feels impossible. - Mm-hmm.

- And then she goes and does it.

- Yeah.

- And so last year she climbed Everest

with zero mountain training.

I was like, okay, I'm never gonna fuck with you.

- No, shit.

Not that you were before,

but you really are now, yeah. - Yeah, but like,

she was kind of like,

she was like kind of telling the table this

as like an inspiration.

She's like, yeah, I just always find it like one year,

you know, she went, she like spontaneously,

she like walked like

a hundred miles or something. - Mm-hmm.

- And didn't stop till she finished.

And you know, everybody's like, oh, that's cool.

And then they were like, what'd you do this year?

And she was like, oh, I climbed Everest.

And they're like, do you climb mountains?

She's like, no.

- Geez.

Oh, my God.

- I was like, okay.

I'm gonna dial it back a little bit.

- Yeah, yeah. - But,

I like that concept of pick something that is

like almost irrationally difficult

and just see if you can do it.

Will Smith used to have this thing

that he used to say to me, he said that he was like,

I used to try to bite off more than I can chew,

and then I'd figure out

how to chew it afterwards. - Mm-hmm.

- And he was very aware that we tend to

our assumption of our own capacity is generally as a rule

always below our actual capacity.

And so he would intentionally set himself up to do things,

do more things than he thought he was capable of.

So like, I remember he told me, he was like,

yeah, when I started doing movies,

I went to my manager and I was like,

we're gonna do an album.

And the manager's like, whoa,

our schedule's booked the next two years, there's no time.

He's like, no, we're gonna do an album

while I'm doing the movies.

And his team was like, that's impossible.

- Right. - And he's like,

we're gonna figure it out.

And he fucking did, right?

So it's, you intentionally set those kind of impossible bars

and then your brain starts setting

to inventing and innovating new ways to find them.

Also, when I was thinking about this,

I couldn't help but think about that Seinfeld episode.

Did you ever see the episode

where George Costanza does like the opposite date?

- Oh, yeah.

That's a great episode. - Oh, my God.

It's like one of the best Seinfeld episodes,

- That is, yeah. - So for listeners

who haven't watched Seinfeld, - That's so good.

there's a character George Costanza,

he's kind of like

Jerry Seinfeld's best friend in the show.

And he's just kind of a loser.

Like everything he does, he's just a mess.

He's always screwing things up.

He's single.

He's blowing dates.

Like his family, his parents are assholes to him.

He's just a classic loser.

And then there's, - There's a lot of

dark psychology in there too, yeah.

- And then there's one episode

where he gets so fed up with his own life that he's like,

I'm just gonna do the opposite of everything

I would normally do. - Right.

- And so like, he goes into work,

and he starts cursing out his boss

and telling of his boss how stupid he is.

And his boss is like, wow, I really needed to hear that.

You know what, you're due for a raise.

And then like, he goes on a date and he's like

saying all the opposite stuff that he normally says.

And just like gorgeous woman is like completely falls

in love with him. - Yeah, he's like.

I don't have a job, I live with my mom.

I'm bald, I'm short. - Yeah.

- And she's like, hey.

- She's like, wow, you're so honest, that's so sexy.

- [Drew] Yeah, yeah.

- So it's the Costanza theorem - Yeah.

- of like, if you feel stuck in an area in your life,

try the opposite,

- Yeah. - see what happens.

- And it sounds so simple.

'Cause it's like, yeah, you're in a rut,

so just do something different, right?

- Yeah. - But we don't think of that.

- Yeah. - We don't,

we get so comfortable even in the ruts,

you know what I mean? - Yeah.

It's, I don't know what that is,

and I'm very much like I said,

a creature of habit because of that I think too.

It's just you get your comfortable spaces and whatever.

- Yeah. - But, yeah.

I don't know.

- Yeah, well, I like this because it,

I mean, aside from pushing comfort zones,

- Mm-hmm. - it helps us redefine

what we consider possible and impossible, right?

Like if we usually kiss up to our boss,

maybe being bluntly honest and borderline offensive.

- Yeah.

- You'd be shocked at what's possible.

Maybe that actually does go better, right?

Or, you know, putting work goals on your plate

that feel impossible today.

Turns out actually it's like

you have more capacity than you thought you did.

- Right, yeah.

- Speaking of which, the next one,

it's adopt a 10x mindset.

What is a 10x mindset?

- The basics of it though is that

we all kind of just limit ourselves.

We think too small and it makes sense

because if you wanna do anything big,

you have to think big, right? - Mm-hmm, yeah.

- I think you're really good at this too.

Another area you could impart

some wisdom onto me I think here.

But we do, we limit ourselves.

You know, you've several times on the podcast

told the allegory about the elephant.

- [Mark] Yeah.

- Who gets tied to the fence post

and doesn't realize he can break away from it.

That sort of thing definitely happens a lot I think.

And we just, we set very small goals.

- Yeah. - And then

I think some of us wonder why we don't have more.

And I don't know.

What's the key to thinking bigger do you think?

You have a very good sense of the big picture

I think a lot of times. - Yeah.

- And you tend to aim high, shoot high.

And you know, you fail sometimes with it but.

- Most of the time. - What's your secret, Mark?

- What's my secret?

I, first of all, I like zooming out.

- Mm-hmm.

- I like the big picture that's just like

my brain kind of goes that direction naturally.

I like asking myself.

What does this look like three years from now?

What does this look like five years from now?

And I think that's an important tendency to develop

because I think it's so easy to get,

everybody tends to get caught up

in like the immediate future.

Everybody's worried about next month or next quarter,

- [Drew] Right.

- or next year.

And I like to ask myself like,

if I did what I'm doing this month for the next 10 years,

where am I gonna end up? - Mm-hmm.

- And okay, how do I optimize for that?

So I think part of it is timescale,

zooming out and looking at timescale.

'Cause a lot of what, you know,

the 10x rule, one way to think about it is it's

to get the 10x of anything,

you're gonna have to compound your way there,

and compounding requires time. - Mm-hmm.

- So like, what's the best way to leverage time

the next five to 10 years?

So that's one element of it.

I think the second element of it is just like

big goals are more exciting.

They're sexier.

They feel, I mean,

obviously if you manage to accomplish them,

they feel better.

And then I also, to come back to the Will Smith point like,

we tend to underestimate

what our actual capacity is. - Mm-hmm.

- So if you are overshooting

what you perceive your capacity to be,

you're actually probably gonna end up

much closer to your real capacity.

So you're actually maximizing your brain quite a bit more.

And then of course there's like that old cliche,

which is shoot for the stars,

and even if you miss, you'll land on the moon, Drew.

- I think it's the other way around.

Shoot for the moon

and if you miss you'll land among the stars.

- 'Cause the stars are further.

- Okay.

- I just- - Yeah, yeah.

I see what you're saying, I see what you're saying.

- I have qualms with this Instagram,

- Okay. - this inspirational

Instagram quote.

I'll take it up with somebody else though.

- Right.

- But yeah, I think it's,

I think it's a combination of a lot of those things.

- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

I think, yeah, you hear about this a lot,

like in money and business and stuff like that like.

And I think there's some business gurus out there,

or even like Ramit Sethi talks about this a lot where,

you know, you can,

this is kind if a variation on the 10x rule I think,

you can cut your expenses to zero, right?

- Yeah. - You could do that.

You could cut your expenses all the way to zero,

but that's the limit on that.

On the other side of it though,

there's no limit to

how much you can make. - Mm-hmm.

- So there's like a switch in thinking there too over like

what to 10x or what to optimize for.

But I think you could apply that to other areas as well

not just like money and business and stuff like that.

I think you could apply it to,

I'll go back to the relationships thing again.

You can cut out the problems in your relationship

and as much as you can, - Mm-hmm.

- as much as it practical, right?

But is there a limit on how deep your connection can go?

Is there a limit on the number of things

you can learn about your partner?

Stuff like that.

Like, to me that's like going from like a

oh, let's make our relationship a little bit better

to let's make this a lot better.

- Yeah. - And you,

and you're changing what you're focusing on

rather than changing on the little problems you can cut out,

you're changing more the focus to

how can we connect on these things?

How can I learn more about you?

- 10x in a relationship. - Yeah.

That was a thought experiment

I went through with this, anyway.

- I'm like wondering what that would look like.

I always get wary around relationships

because you run into - Mm-hmm.

- a lot of backwards law stuff - Mm-hmm.

- of like, trying to optimize a relationship,

- Oh, yeah. - ends up becoming

the relationship problem.

Whereas if you just stop trying to optimize it,

it would be how happier. - I see, okay.

- It's funny I've run into a couple friends recently

who are in new relationships

and they've gotten really excited

'cause they've set up like Notion dashboards

to track KPIs and stuff.

And I'm like, stop, fucking stop.

Like, just don't do it.

Don't go down that road.

I understand the motivation and the desire but.

I will say this, like it's to me the,

you know, ultimately the principle of

the 10x rule or whatever - Mm-hmm.

- is that there's a degree of success available to you

that is much larger than you're currently conceiving of.

And in the relationship realm,

the way I've experienced that is

an incredible amount of comfort and security

with the same person. - Mm-hmm.

- Which is ironic because you can't force that.

It's actually the lack of forcing that gives you that.

Like it's the, after 12 years together,

my wife and I, we have such a like insane level of comfort

and ease around each other. - Mm-hmm.

That you can't achieve that,

you can't shortcut it and you can't achieve it

in any other way.

And if you tried to shortcut it

or achieve it in another way,

you would be removing the comfort and ease.

And so you'd be like, it'd be self-defeating.

So, anyway. - Okay.

- It's a little bit of a tangent but.

- No, I think you make a good point.

It's probably,

which is don't necessarily apply business principles

to your relationships.

- Which there are. - Jesus.

Tell me you're an American by not telling me

you're American, right? - Which Drew,

I was just gonna say, judging by my friend group,

a lot of people need to hear that.

It's so funny, dude.

Like a lot of,

you know, we don't have kids. - Mm-hmm.

- So a lot of our friends out here in LA,

like a lot of the new friends that we've made

are five, 10 years

younger than us. - Yes.

- And so a lot of it is,

it's kind of like a lot of our friends,

our couple friends out here are couples who are

likely to get married, - Mm-hmm.

- you know, but either aren't married

or they just got married,

but they haven't had kids yet.

But they're all, you know,

two, three, four, five years into the relationship.

And we're kind of like

the elder couple now, right? - Right, yeah.

- So like, we're over 40

and we've been together for longer than everybody.

And so we've actually had a number of couples

who have kind of come to us and like

peppered us with questions.

And it's like every single time

Fernanda and I are just like,

yeah, maybe just don't try so hard like.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Just like,

just enjoy being together.

- And you know, a lot of business people.

- So you're saying

a lot of them are like trying - Totally, totally.

- to run it like a business. - Totally.

- Yeah, okay, okay. - Yeah, exactly, exactly.

- All right, well,, yeah,

I'll not do that from now on.

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Okay, we got one more.

What is it?

Focus on fewer things for longer periods of time.

So this is the kind of classic Cal Newport

productivity advice, - Mm-hmm.

- The deep work advice.

We had an episode with him a couple months ago

where we touched on this quite a bit.

You know, there's just, there's a lot of hidden,

he calls it overhead tax.

You could call it like task switching tax.

Like there's a mental tax that comes with

the diversity of information that

we're being bombarded with. - Mm-hmm.

- So like the simple act of

switching from email to your phone to a web browser,

to a phone call to a Zoom call to a notification

like just your attention moving

between all of those things

over the course of like five or 10 minutes

generates much more of a mental burden

than say just reading an academic paper

for those 10 minutes. - Mm-hmm.

- And it's really counterintuitive, because on paper,

a stupid Zoom meeting and a notification on your phone

and checking a Slack message,

like those in a vacuum, none of those actions are difficult.

None of them are intellectually difficult.

None of them are physically difficult.

They're certainly far easier than reading

a challenging book or paper.

But for some reason that series of activities

will tire you out much faster

than just sitting down and reading the single paper.

And so, you know,

a lot of Cal's advice revolves around

being very conscious of like

how you organize all your tasks, blocking out notifications,

blocking out social media, staying off YouTube,

getting rid of dumb meetings or,

you know, batching them together at the very least.

And I mean, I have to say like,

I really think, I think he's onto something like.

- Mm-hmm. - I think this is the,

he calls it like the

fundamental challenge of knowledge work.

And I think he's right about that.

And I think it's hard to ignore how

the increase in burnout has coincided with

work that is just kind of objectively easier

than it was say 50 years ago.

As a population, we're not out in factories.

We're not like

dying in coal mines, - Right, right.

- like we were generations ago.

We're sitting in air conditioned rooms on computers,

with amazing devices in our hands,

talking to people remotely in our gym shorts,

working whenever we want, however we want,

with the people we want.

Yet we are experiencing a mental and emotional fatigue

that we haven't really experienced before.

And so I just, it's a really interesting phenomenon.

- Mm-hmm. - And I just think

it's so important for our generation

to understand the nature of it,

- Yeah. - so that we can adapt.

- I think that you're talking kind of on the micro level,

the daily level, just getting shit done type of level.

If you step back one level though too,

and just the number of things

that you're focusing on in general.

- [Mark] Mm-hmm.

- I have a problem with this 'cause I'm just,

I'm fascinated by everything. - Yeah.

- I'm interested in everything.

Everything like, you know, everything grabs my attention,

and I go with it. - Yeah.

- I mean, even when I like out here,

I'm like drilling holes in ceilings

and then I sit down and I'm,

- You literally do. - we're talking about.

- By the way, everybody,

Drew built this studio.

- I was fishing for that,

I was, yeah. - With his bare hands.

I'm not even exaggerating.

Like if you pull up the video,

if you're listening to this,

open Spotify, look at the video.

Drew built this fucking studio with his bare hands.

So I apparently I hired a GC

when I was hiring a research assistant and I had no idea.

- But okay, that's my point.

My point is though, Mark, is that,

I don't know, there's like,

I feel very much like the jack of all trades,

master of none type of thing, you know.

And that's what I mean, that next level,

if you back out and you say,

okay, I need to focus on fewer things rather than

chasing every little, - Yeah.

- you know, rabbit down the hole.

- So this one actually, this raises an interesting question

because you know, Cal,

Cal kind of bangs on the drum of

specialized focus, - Yeah, very much so.

- really drill deep on one thing.

There is a prevailing counter argument.

There's a different, there's an opposite school of thought.

- [Drew] Mm-hmm.

- There's a great book called "Range" by David Epstein.

I think Tyler Cowen has talked about this a bit as well,

or maybe it was Peter Thiel.

But like, the importance of

generalists today. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

- Because,

a generalist today,

because there's access to so much information

and there's so much disparate things and opportunities

and different trends and fields

and research coming out and data coming out

that we actually need generalists more than ever

simply to tie the thread between all the stuff out there.

- Right. - Like if you're

only zoomed in on your field and you're like,

you're knowledge-based,

you're gonna become too detached from the wider world.

And actually generalists are gonna be the ones

who are going to be able to like keep track of everything.

I don't know if I buy that,

but I think it's a really interesting argument.

And Epstein in particular, you know,

he tries to argue in his book,

he finds examples of how

some of the people that we considered domain experts

were actually generalists. - Yeah.

- You know, like Steve Jobs was

very famously kind of a generalist.

Like he was really into art and calligraphy

and eastern spirituality

and like all those things really influenced

his views of technology and consumer products.

He talks about Roger Federer and how like Federer,

you would assume that Federer was like

playing tennis all day, every day

since he was four years old.

But it turns out that Federer actually spent

as much time playing soccer and a bunch of other sports.

Or like Magnus Carlson,

the best chess player who's ever lived,

like apparently he spends,

when he was like competing for world championships,

he actually spends his days playing soccer with his friends

the day before he goes in to actually play the chess match.

And it like frees up his brain

to be more creative during the chess match.

So it's an interesting argument.

- Mm-hmm. - I don't know

where I land or how much I buy it,

but it's out there.

- No, and I've,

I've tried that on before. - Yeah/

- I've tried to kind of take that view

and I think there is some merit to that.

There's also a great little book.

It's an easy read.

It's called "How To Be Everything" by Emily Wapnick.

- [Mark] Okay.

- And she talks about kind of this same thing.

She was very much a generalist and fascinated by everything

and also left a PhD program

like I did, you know? - Yeah.

- And which is very common amongst people like us, I think.

And she talks about what you're saying is kind of,

if you can find a theme

across these domains. - Hmm, yeah.

- And I do think,

I do really like it when I am like feeling scatterbrained,

but then all of a sudden I find one idea in one domain

and bring it over to another and tie the two together.

That's very satisfying to me. - Yes.

- So maybe if I focused on that more,

that would be a little bit more,

more productive for me, I don't know.

- Yeah. - Yeah.

- Yeah, I don't know.

I do think we live in a time

that rewards that - Yeah.

- more than ever before, - Yeah, okay, okay.

- like intuitively - Yeah.

- that feels true to me.

But that said, to be able to make those connections,

you need to be able to focus on that theme.

Right? - One at a time.

- I think it's the

one at a time theme, - It's the one at a time

- that's important. - that's important, yeah.

- You can't, like Magnus Carlson can't be playing chess

while he plays soccer. - Yeah.

- Like he needs to play one and then go play the other.

- Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, and I don't know. - Although it would be fun

to watch him try.

- He could probably.

- If anybody could do it, - He could probably do it.

- it would be him. - Yeah,

if anybody could do it, - Yeah.

- it's probably him. - No, for real.

For real.

- All right.

What else? Is that it?

- I think that's it.

I think that's the pod, Mark.

- I still don't feel successful, Drew.

- Yeah?

- Perhaps it's just a faulty definition of success.

- That could be, that's a whole another podcast.

- That's a whole another podcast.

- That's a whole another podcast, yeah.

- Well, until we dig into that,

until we dig into my faulty sense of success

or lack of success, - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

- that's all for today's episode.

Be sure to like and subscribe.

Leave a comment, leave a review.

Sign up for the newsletter it's at markmanson/newsletter.

I send out a newsletter every Monday morning

with a few pieces of advice

and also breakthroughs from readers.

Anything else you'd like to add, Drew?

- That's all I got today.

- That's it, that's it. - That's it.

- No quirky sign off?

No? - Doing this one straight.

- Okay, all right.

All right, well, we'll be better next time.

Until next time.

(lively music)