Grow Digital 23 - Industry 5.0
Summary
TLDRThe discussion centers on the evolution from Industry 4.0 to Industry 5.0, emphasizing human-centricity, sustainability, and resilience through digital technologies. Panelists highlight the need to see workers as investments, utilize digital tools for sustainability, and create flexible supply chains. They address the importance of skills development, collaboration between academia and industry, and the need for supportive regulatory frameworks. The conversation also touches on the global race in adopting these principles and the challenges of implementation. Overall, Industry 5.0 aims to balance productivity with societal and environmental responsibilities.
Takeaways
- ๐ Innovative companies are leveraging digital technologies to enhance creativity and drive innovation within their workforce.
- ๐ Industry 5.0 is centered around three interlinked pillars: human-centricity, sustainability, and flexibility to enhance company resilience.
- ๐ผ Human-centricity involves viewing workers as investments and using digital technologies to empower them and drive change.
- ๐ฑ Sustainability focuses on using digital technologies to develop full product lifecycle processes that promote doing more with less.
- โ๏ธ Flexibility and resilience are essential to adapt to disruptions such as raw material shortages, supply chain disruptions, and geopolitical disturbances.
- ๐ฉโ๐ซ Industry 5.0 emphasizes the importance of collaboration between academia and industry to drive human-centric perspectives and sustainability.
- ๐ Regulatory frameworks should support innovation without hampering it, and there should be coherence across policy areas to promote a holistic approach.
- ๐ Investment in ongoing skills development is crucial for empowering workers and offering them dynamic career prospects.
- ๐ค Public-private partnerships play a vital role in developing research programs and fostering the implementation of new technologies.
- ๐ Decentralization and personalization are key factors in Industry 5.0, enabling a more customized and human-centric work environment.
Q & A
What are the three pillars of Industry 5.0 as identified in the script?
-The three pillars of Industry 5.0 are human centricity, sustainability, and using technologies dynamically to increase resilience.
How does Industry 5.0 view workers in comparison to traditional models?
-Industry 5.0 views workers as an investment rather than a cost, aiming to empower them and make them agents of change within the company.
What role do digital technologies play in supporting sustainability in Industry 5.0?
-Digital technologies help companies become more sustainable by identifying ways to do more with less and developing full product lifecycle processes.
Why is flexibility important for companies in the context of Industry 5.0?
-Flexibility is crucial because rigid global supply chains no longer work effectively due to disruptions like raw material shortages, supply chain issues, the COVID-19 pandemic, and geopolitical disturbances.
What is the significance of human centricity in Industry 5.0 according to Harold?
-Human centricity is significant because new workforces are digital natives who expect a digitalized work environment and because it aligns with the broader goals of sustainability and resilience.
Why does Industry 5.0 emphasize the broader role of companies in the economy and society?
-Industry 5.0 emphasizes the broader role of companies because the straightforward global market environment has been disrupted, and there is a need to focus more on companies' impacts on the economy and society, including attracting young talent.
How is the industrial metaverse related to Industry 5.0?
-The industrial metaverse is one of the underlying technologies that will enable the transformation associated with Industry 5.0.
What is the role of regulations in achieving the goals of Industry 5.0?
-Regulations can help drive the transition by providing clear goals and incentives, though excessive regulation might create uncertainty and stifle innovation.
How does Europe compare to other regions in terms of advancing Industry 5.0?
-Europe developed the concept of Industry 5.0 early on but other regions, like the U.S., Australia, and parts of Asia, are quickly catching up by implementing policies and programs that support the transition.
What is the importance of personalization in the context of Industry 5.0?
-Personalization is important because it enhances motivation and engagement among employees, making them feel more involved and valued in their work environment.
Outlines
๐ Embracing Digital Technologies for Workforce Innovation
This paragraph discusses how innovative companies leverage digital technologies to enhance workforce creativity and stimulate innovation. The concept of Industry 5.0 is introduced, focusing on human-centricity, sustainability, and flexibility. Companies are encouraged to view workers as investments, use digital tools to empower them, and drive innovation. The importance of sustainability through digital technologies is highlighted, as well as the need for resilience in response to global challenges like supply chain disruptions and geopolitical events.
๐ Industry 5.0: A Human-Centric Approach
The paragraph features insights from an assistant professor at KTH Royal Institute of Technology, emphasizing the importance of human-centric perspectives in Industry 5.0. Despite advancements in production systems, human involvement remains crucial. The professor discusses ongoing research projects and collaborations that focus on integrating human-centric approaches with digital technologies in production logistics.
๐งฉ Defining Industry 5.0
This segment explores the definition and necessity of Industry 5.0. It addresses concerns about the premature definition of a new paradigm when Industry 4.0 is not fully realized. The speakers agree on the importance of human-centric, sustainable, and resilient approaches. They emphasize the changing conditions and the need for industry to reconnect with its broader societal role, appealing to digitally literate younger generations who value sustainability and career development.
๐ The Industrial Metaverse and Sustainable Business Practices
The discussion continues with the concept of the industrial metaverse and its role in making manufacturing more appealing. The focus shifts to the holistic view of Industry 4.0/5.0 and the integration of sustainability into business models. Panelists highlight the need for businesses to transition towards generative, planet-positive practices. The importance of personalization, digital twins, and reskilling programs is emphasized as key elements in achieving human-centric, sustainable, and resilient industrial practices.
๐ Public-Private Partnerships in Industry
The role of public-private partnerships (PPPs) in advancing Industry 5.0 is discussed. Successful examples of PPPs in data and industrial sectors are mentioned, highlighting their effectiveness in developing research programs. The need for more adaptation of new technologies and increased transparency in the market is stressed. The discussion also touches on how PPPs can help bridge the gap between research activities and real industrial implementation, particularly for small and medium enterprises.
๐ Investment and Innovation in Industry 5.0
This paragraph focuses on the need for investment in innovation and skills development to achieve Industry 5.0. It stresses the importance of company commitment to ongoing skills development and cross-sectoral cooperation. The panelists discuss the need for regulatory sandboxes to foster innovation and how regulations can both limit and enable creativity. The conversation also addresses the challenges of economic uncertainty and the need to show tangible benefits of new technologies to encourage industry adoption.
โณ The Journey to Industry 5.0
The final segment reflects on the timeline and progress towards achieving Industry 5.0. Panelists acknowledge that different industries and companies are at various stages of transformation. They express hope that some companies will reach Industry 5.0 soon, with others following. The discussion concludes with examples of companies already making significant strides towards the goals of Industry 5.0, highlighting the ongoing nature of this industrial evolution.
Mindmap
Keywords
๐กIndustry 5.0
๐กHuman-centricity
๐กSustainability
๐กResilience
๐กDigital Technologies
๐กIndustry 4.0
๐กInnovation
๐กCollaboration
๐กPersonalization
๐กGeopolitical disturbances
๐กExtended Reality (XR)
๐กSTEM Skills
๐กCircular Economy
Highlights
Innovative companies are capitalizing on digital technologies to increase creativity and stimulate innovation in their workforce.
Industry 5.0 is identified around three pillars: human-centricity, sustainability, and flexibility.
Human-centricity involves viewing workers as an investment and using digital technologies to empower them and drive innovation.
Sustainability in Industry 5.0 focuses on using digital technologies to support sustainable practices and develop full product life cycle processes.
Flexibility is crucial for companies to adapt to changes in circumstances, such as raw material shortages and supply chain disruptions.
The shift towards Industry 5.0 reflects changing conditions and emphasizes the need for industries to focus on their wider role in the economy and society.
Younger digitally literate workers expect digitalized work environments and seek employers who align with their values.
Collaboration between industry and academia is essential for advancing Industry 5.0 principles and practices.
Public-private partnerships play a significant role in fostering innovation and developing research programs that align with Industry 5.0 goals.
There is a need for investment in ongoing skills development to empower workers and offer stimulating careers.
The importance of sustainability is highlighted, including the need to measure and reduce CO2 footprints across the entire production process.
Decentralization and web3 technologies present opportunities to disrupt traditional supply chains and investment models.
The European Commission has introduced various regulations, such as the AI Act and the Data Governance Act, to promote transparency and fairness.
Personalization and customization of work environments can motivate employees and improve productivity.
Sustainability and resilience are seen as critical factors for the future of industry, with a focus on making a positive impact on the planet.
Transcripts
those companies that were being most
Innovative were the ones that were able
to to to capitalize on digital
Technologies to increase the creativity
of their Workforce and stimulate
Innovation so it was on that basis that
we identified entity 5.0 around three
pillars that are very much interlinked
first of all human centricity so seeing
workers as an investment rather than a
cost for the company
and using digital Technologies to
empower them and to make them agents of
change to drive innovation in the
company secondly sustainability
capitalizing on digital Technologies to
help companies in a positive way to
support their sustainability by using
digital Technologies to identify ways of
doing more with less by developing full
products life cycle processes that
really help them to be more sustainable
and thirdly really focusing on uh the
way in which the Technologies can be
used in a dynamic and flexible way in
order to make companies more resilient
in recent years we've seen the the
difficulties for companies arising from
uh raw material and shortages supply
chain disruptions and of course that was
really emphasized by the during the
covert pandemic and now the geopolitical
disturbance caused by the the war in
Ukraine so the the idea of the very
rigid Global Supply chains really don't
work anymore and you need to use digital
Technologies in a flexible way to help
the company to adapt quickly to changes
in its circumstances so really uh we
came at this from point of view of
seeing digital Technologies being more
human used in a more human-centric way
to also Drive sustainability and
resilience
well it does quite a lot in a nutshell
um Jungkook tell us a bit about what
you're working on and uh why why you're
on the panel uh yes so now I'm working
as an assistant professor in kth Royal
Institute of Technology in Sweden and my
department is production engineering and
in the production engineering my field
is production Logistics and as you know
so we deal about like all the moving
Goods or data information in production
site and most of the production side
they are very oriented efficiency or the
digitalization but in the production
Logistics we still have some human there
and I see the industry 5.0 is a good
guideline for the transition because
even though we are developing some new
technologies for production systems but
still we have the human and I have some
project about
where is the the way of going in this
area so we have some
literature review and the surveys and we
analyzed the ongoing project in kth and
other universities as well so I would
like to like maybe more emphasize the
human-centric perspective and Industry
Academia collaboration in terms of
Industry 5.0 today so maybe that's why
I'm here thank you Harold tell us your
thinking on industry 5.0
yeah thank you
um first of all I have to mention that
I'm a co-speaker of the German research
Council on industry 40 and a member of
the steering body of the platform
industry for zero and we are not
thinking about renaming us to 5-0
although all the topics mentioned are in
the focus of our activities
so if we talk about 4-0 we include these
these topics such as human centricity
sustainability resilience from the start
on because they were already mentioned
in the 2013 paper on industry for zero
nevertheless a coining a new term might
be good to raise more the
awareness
in the European level
we noticed that these are topics that
you cannot just ignore human centricity
is important because also people are
changing I mean the new new workforces
that come into companies now they are
used to digital Technologies they are
digital natives yeah and they expect
their work environment to be digitalized
and
we lack a lot of progress there in the
real implementation of our factories
yeah so we are already
researching on how to use AR or extended
reality to help people to make them
feel comfortable with their working
environment I mean no one wants to do
the paperwork anymore yeah they want to
do it in a digital way and the same is
true with with the sustainability thing
people want to see products that are
designed from the beginning for being
reused or recycled or upcycled later
and you also have to see the European
dimension
we are short of some raw materials and
depending on raw materials from from
countries that are outside of Europe and
with a circular economy
that is enabled by industry four zero or
five zero whatever
we create another source of raw material
within Europe so it even increases the
resilience so the topics are very very
hot very important and also in the
discussions in Germany well Harold
you've raised the issue of definitions
and this is one I want to tackle first
um
Sean I think a lot of people would say
we haven't really already delivered on
4.0
is it are we getting ahead of ourselves
in already trying to define a new
paradigm with 5.0 or does it not really
matter what terms we're using to
describe the same thing and Yani I'm
coming back to you on this but I I think
Harold is correct that we shouldn't get
too hung up on on titles but
industry 5.0 it's not a chronological
follow-on Community 4.0 but it it
reflects the fact the conditions have
changed conditions which Visions are
operating uh have changed uh firstly and
that
um now in this now industry needs to
um be more focused on its impact
there's a clear impression that industry
uh with this focus on on digitalization
to drive down costs and enhance
productivity has maybe become too
focused on the factory floor and had a
little bit become disengaged from its
wider role in the economy and Society
um and was indeed perhaps becoming less
attractive to young people coming onto
the the jobs Market I already made the
point that this is the first generation
that is digitally literate but
Industries in competition with many
other sectors for these excellent people
also as we've seen with what's become
known as the great resignation in the
United States people leave a company
that doesn't share their values and
young people coming onto the job market
now want to work for an employer not
only who pays him a good salary but who
takes seriously
their career prospects in terms of of
skill development
um empowerment and having a a dynamic
and interesting job and also company
that takes its responsibilities vis-a-b
uh resilient and secure and
sustainability properly
um so that it is it is seen as a valued
part of society so I think industry 5.0
we're looking we're taking a broader
look at the the role of the company in
in the economy and Society and also
recognizing the fact that the the the
the uh very folk very straightforward
Global Market environment of 13 years
ago has been disrupted by a number of of
and therefore we need to to look in a
different way at the same things but I
don't think we should get too hung up on
titles
well I am still going to say to Yani I
mean I can't think that I'd heard of the
industrial metaverse before but of
course metal versus a huge buzzword I
mean is this just trying to make
the factory floor sexy
hmm
well maybe it's a small attempt on on
that one
um
I I kind of
agree with my my panel colleagues here
that
it's it's more about having this
holistic view on on this industrial 4.0
or 5.0 whatever term you now want to use
and and there there has this
um raised understanding of the situation
that it's not anymore optimizing it's
it's my like making your business a
generative like being a planet positive
that that you you need to have that as a
part of your business that that you
actually not just optimize the
consumption but you actually optimize
that how much you do good for for the
planet so yeah but the metaverse if if
coming back to that I think that's just
one of the underlying technologies that
will enable this transformation that is
coming up
well we'll we'll park that for now so
we'll we've talked a little bit about
the what the difficult part is always
the how how do we achieve these sort of
human-centric collaborative sustainable
and yet High productivity goals that we
seem to be marrying together under this
umbrella term
um
Jungkook will it happen by market forces
or are we going to need some sort of
Regulation to get to where we want to go
what's your take
um I think industry 5.0 and the industry
4.0 right now it's a transition because
I think the maybe some Advanced oems
like bigger players they are already
reached in the 4.0 and they are ready to
go to further but we have small and
medium companies and maybe there are
difference between Academia and Industry
and maybe developed countries and
developing countries as well so I see
this one as a transition and to achieve
this I think we should have like a clear
goal and then we the the bigger players
can maybe be the leader of this like a
use cases and the smaller medium
companies get some like a benefit from
the bigger players as well and also same
for the industry Academia and the
regulations as well so I see this is
like a long run we we will achieve maybe
efficiency and the customers involvement
and the young people will join the like
a Visionary companies later but maybe in
the short term when need some
regulations because nowadays maybe some
companies they are investing ESG and the
sustainability because they can get some
benefit at this moment so as a short
term I think we need some kind of
Regulation but I see as a long long
because it's a transition so at the end
we will get some improvement in the
bigger perspective Harold humans yeah on
the regulation I mean we have a lot we
have seen a lot of regulation in the in
the last years that's coming from the
European commission and it's it's of
course good that we have all these ESG
reporting things but you should be
careful with introducing new regulations
because we have the AI act we have the
data governance act we have the data act
coming up
so it's a lot of things that really
create uncertainty with the companies
what does that all mean what are the
consequences of that and for example the
data governance act has has destroyed
some business models that were just
raising up in the area of data sharing
because well I don't go into the details
why that's the case but
um
so I I think it's it's enough of
Regulation at the moment
um we have to consume all the new
regulations and adapt in the industry
and
even more regulation that would not
benefit but it would uh what in the
European industry yeah
um and of course industry is doing a lot
at the moment to increase all the ESG
aspects because people are demanding it
the employees are demanding it the
customers are demanding it at least in
Europe
and that should be enough to drive the
the whole movement
well I always say when we talk about
laws and in particular EU laws if there
were no Bad actors we wouldn't need any
laws at all if everyone behaved
ethically and responsibly
um than the commission would be out of a
job really
um but Sean let me bring you in here
um not to focus overly on necessarily
the legislative side but tell me whether
you think we're creating the right
conditions and what might those
conditions be for a successful
transition to 5.0
I was I was certainly agreed that it's
um this process must be driven by
Innovation and we shouldn't do anything
that in any way hampers Innovation
um I think the and it is for industry to
adopt industry 5.0 and the role our role
um at the European level really should
be uh to to to to ensure the right
framework conditions are in place so
making sure that at policy level there
is coherence what we're doing across
different areas
um that um there is a clear
directionality and that there's a the
appropriate level of incentives and I
think we what's important is we need to
look in a broad way across policy areas
looking at environment policy uh
employment policy to make sure that the
the right incentives are there
education policy to make sure that
there's proper stem
skills training also Regional and social
policy to make sure that this uh these
are opportunities and the are available
to across regions and to all players in
society and also we need to look at a
taxation policy make sure the taxation
policy also supports uh the more in the
Innovation that's necessary to make this
transition and this transformation
happen and of course on the research and
Innovation side we see it as very
important as well to to have programs
and policies in place that support this
Innovation so yeah we definitely need
them in proper framework conditions and
we need to look in a broad way at these
to make sure that the system is is
working in the same direction
well I want to talk about skills now as
well because they're having a skilled
Workforce is obviously a precondition
and you've mentioned that already we
have digital natives Yani
do you see any gaps are there any
concerns or or do you see that there's
so much great young talent coming down
the line that that we're going to be
fine
well I personally definitely I see gaps
in Bell Labs we do research and we try
to do cutting-edge research and actually
there is always a scarcity of of good
resources
and talented resources
what comes to this transformation and so
on I have a little bit Hope on our
younger generation that the mindset is
different and maybe they are choosing
more wisely their their education and
and have more uh and better better kind
of suitable education for for this topic
uh like
um sustainability and so on at least I
see that in my kids and and so on but
yes there is a gap and if you think
about the geopolitical thing I think
there's a bigger Gap in in Europe than
in the U.S
uh Jungkook I mean could you expand a
little bit on that I'm sure you would
say you're you're doing fabulous in
Sweden um do you see any other gaps
around Europe or
um as Yeti mentions compared to the US
or southeast Asia or other parts of the
world in terms of like in terms of the
skill set in terms of the the workforce
that's there and coming
um for example in Sweden yeah I have
maybe no no more about Swedish cases so
I'll talk about the Swedish case though
in terms of Sweden there are many
reskilling and upskilling program for
the employees so it is not only for the
young young students and young people so
I think they are already engaged in
sustainability they're aware about their
future so they're concerned about it and
also because of the digitalization many
people are worried about can I still
work in this field can I like use my
skill in next five or ten years so in
Swedish universities we have some
um in we call it engineer 4.0 program
even though we are using 4.0 but they
are more talking about reskilling the
current workers for the digitalization
and how they like for example use the
robot or they use the digital twin in
their work so there are many upskilling
and reskilling programs in Sweden but I
guess other com other countries and
other reasons are doing this similar in
a way
but Sean we often talk about Europe as
being in a race with other parts of the
world in whatever context economically
or industrially do you have any insight
onto which where and which areas
globally are sort of best placed to uh
to race ahead in the 4.0 right as three
5.0 okay sorry well that's a very
relevant point because I think we were
ahead of the game when we we developed a
concept but in in the in the two years
two to three years since then we're
seeing other parts of the world really
catching up with us I mean if we look at
the U.S
um the bite administration's inflation
reduction act I mean industry 5.0 is at
the heart of that it's all it's about
bringing uh manufacturing back and
bringing people putting Peter at this
people at center of it and you know
we're already seeing in MIT that we
orientating their their manufacturing
programs
um to to focus on on delivering the
skills and they have a very interesting
initiative they call it the Hub and
spoke initiative where they develop it
at an MIT quality program but it's being
delivered right across the the states of
the Us close to where the companies are
that need these skills so that uh their
workers can acquire the the skills
development on an ongoing basis uh close
to where they're working we I mean in
Europe EIT is doing really good work in
in that area work a lot with our
colleagues in IIT manufacturing and
they're bringing their their programs uh
very much into line with the industry
5.0 principles but we
we're good at talking about things in
Europe and then other parts of the world
maybe they move they move ahead faster
in Australia they're just beginning now
uh to to to understand the opportunity
of Industry 5.0 and they've developed
now in um in uh
in Queensland a a trial program which is
very close to Industry 5.0 combining
training and coaching and so on and in
areas like like India and Pakistan
they're really jumping on the industry
5.0 bandwagon very quickly so yeah we
very fast other parts of the world are
catching up with us so we we need not
only to talk about industry 5.0 but we
need to make sure that we're putting it
in place we're particularly putting in
place the skills that are needed
Harold let me ask you about
collaboration and in particular public
private Partnerships and and working
groups this whole uh topic that we like
so much in Brussels how important is
that and do you see it happening enough
at the moment are there any good
examples or are there any bad examples
well
um yeah I see some some good examples in
that
um we have
public private Partnerships in the data
area we have Public Partnerships in the
industrial area as well and as far as I
can see or as as I can say they are they
are quite successful because the
commission works together with with all
the stakeholders industry and research
in these Partnerships to develop the
rights research programs so that's
that's very successful
um but that's a research side that I
know on the other hand I'm not sure what
Public Partnerships can do in addition
yeah for example concerning the
procurement concerning fostering the the
usage of these new technologies not just
the development I'm just lacking ideas
there
what if anything would you like to see
change rapidly in the next five years
in in relation to this topic yeah yeah
um
I I hope that there is more adaptation
of of these new technologies that we
start really utilizing those so I think
that's that's the thing then I I hope
this legislation and all that brings
this visibility and transparency that
it's more fair to compete at the market
because I think that's also the the
driving force that once once uh you can
really
have the visibility and and say that I
do it right and and our company have the
the right measures to do it I think that
that gives you the competitive advantage
and and so on so I I hope the
transparency happens I hope that there
is a faster adaptation of of the new
technologies uh yeah I I would take
those too uh Jungkook I um I mean we've
talked about the human-centric nature
and we've said the collaboration is
important I mean some other factors that
fall under the umbrella of 5.0 is
personalization or customization
sustainability resilience and
decentralization I mean of those four or
five areas is the one that stands out to
you as potentially having the most
impact
uh well maybe the personalization is
also related to human-centric as well
because as a like a employee or the
person who will do their work they will
get more motivated if the environment is
more personalized there was one research
he was talking about uh industrial human
needs that there was a pyramid and when
the people how when what is the need for
the people so the first one was the
safety and and that the next one is
healthy and the next one is the
belonging and esteem and the
self-actualization and I think that the
last two parts are more in
correlated to the the technological
perspective but the other like
belongings and like a self-esteem or the
self-actualization it it the people can
feel more when it is more customized so
one example that I have involved in one
project with the steel manufacturing
company and we have interviewed the
drivers in the factories because we are
developing some autonomous
transportation system for them so we
thought that okay this is our solution
and we will give you the direction to
you where you go and where to pick and
so on and the driver says no but I don't
want to just follow the ai's
recommendation I want to have my options
so I can do my work and I can feel get
more motivated I think this was a really
good example for me aha there was
something else we should not just
provide maybe we need to hear the people
who will use this Technologies and also
how can get more involved and get
motivated people so I think the
personalization is the really important
part Sean same question to you I mean
where do you think the biggest impact
will be I mean I mentioned
sustainability and resilience and
decentralization as well
well I wouldn't maybe separate out
sustainability and resilience as two
goals we need to achieve but I think
there are a lot of driving forces this
this uh need for for greater
customization uh that people want that
the market is demanding uh the
opportunity for for greater
personalization I think and these
coupled with uh some of the technologies
that Yani has talked about these can all
help us to to to move in in their in the
appropriate Direction
um I I think at this moment resilience
is probably uh uh this punctually the
critical thing we need to get right
because we're still in a very uncertain
business environment
um on sustainability I think what's
important is that the digital
Technologies are used in a way so that
companies don't no longer think about it
in terms of not doing the bad things but
rather making a positive contribution to
sustainability by using digitalization
to uh improve their the the their
production processes and succeed in that
way I think you're right on resilience
we had a we kicked off yesterday morning
with a panel ON Semiconductor Supply
chains and that was the point that kept
being raised I would like to I would
like to actually pick the
decentralization because uh
um we do a lot of research on web3 type
of software and now I see a big
opportunity to combine that with this
kind of manufacturing and and it it
could affect the supply chains it could
affect the way how you how you kind of
make your Investments at your Factory
and then how you distribute your factory
assets and so on so I I would pick that
one as the next District disruptive uh
thing and the biggest thing in this one
pick the pick
the Pick 4 shall I ask you the question
about investment no I I fully I fully
fully agree to what what has been said
but I want to highlight the
sustainability apart a little bit
um
currently we are talking a lot about CO2
footprint but we are not able to really
measure the real CO2 footprint over
scope one scope 2 scope 3 in reality so
it's all models it's all estimations and
you don't really know what's happening
and as long as you don't know you can't
change now and we need to change of
course yeah we should all agree on that
so um that's that's one thing that I see
as as very much important uh to improve
there and also to improve I mean
sustainability is not just CO2 it's also
reusing material and we're seeing a lot
of initiatives there
um but it's just in the beginning and
there is no clear goal and how how far
we should go I mean consider the
building industry
concrete is is known to be
um depending on Sand which is a rare
resource nowadays interestingly
um it's creating a lot of CO2 and so on
but on the other hand the deconstruction
of buildings creates a lot of material
but that material is rarely used to
build new buildings
maybe because of Regulation maybe
because of Technology issues so
improving and that aspect is from my
point of view very very important in
particular for Europe
we should have had you at EIT raw
materials a couple of weeks ago talking
about that very subject
um to wrap up I mean I I wanted to
quickly touch on the point of investment
into Innovation into R D
um and where that fits within this
ecosystem shall we call it
um Sean what do we need and and how fast
do we need it
I think we need
um
first of all we need we need commitment
uh to London to really move forward with
the transmit transformation coming
quickly I think we need more engagement
and investment by companies uh in
ongoing skills developing
skills as as a strategic tool for the
company so that uh it's a way of
empowering workers it's also a way of
offering workers a stimulating career so
we certainly need something there and I
think we also need in investment in
Innovation and uh opening up
opportunities for cross-sectoral
cooperation so that we we really see
that the opportunities that
digitalization uh can can have for
industry in terms of moving out of the
old uh sectoral silos and bringing ideas
together across sectors and companies
coming together to develop new markets
and New Opportunities across sectors
uh Jungkook what are the next steps then
thinking more near-term
um in achieving the aims that we want to
achieve with 5.0 I was thinking about
like the regulations and rules are very
important to get Innovative because
maybe people are in the box and they
will think about something creativity
but also the regulation and the rules
can limit the people's thinking so maybe
some kind of Regulation free sandbox for
the Innovative companies or Innovative
research institutions so they can do
whatever they want it should be
regulated but some more Innovative space
I think that would that can be helpful
you said the sort of regulatory
sandboxes that we talk about yeah yeah
Harold your thoughts on on where the
direction of travel and the speed of
travel and are we getting that right
well it's
in an economic situation that we have at
the moment it's not it's not easy for
companies to invest in technologies that
are maybe far off um so we have to show
the companies the the low hanging fruits
even in in respect to sustainability to
human centricity and so on and and to do
so it's very important to bridge the
research activities that are there and
that have have done great progress on on
all these areas with the real Industries
industrial implementation
in particular and in Germany it's it's
difficult because we have a lot of
world-leading companies real champions
but they are small and they are very
distributed over over Germany so 99 of
the German industry is small and medium
Enterprises
um and to to distribute all the
knowledge to them that's that's an hard
issue and we should work very hard on to
do that
um Yani I said at the beginning that
there could be criticism that we haven't
achieved 4.0 uh Sean points out it's not
necessarily A next iteration uh to get
to 5.0 but
how fast are we going to get there when
do you think we'll be looking back and
saying oh that's job done tick the Box
um you mean to Industry 5.0
and why well I I think it's a it's a
transformation and there are businesses
and industries in different stages so
most probably it's a hard to say that
when when we have reached that and we
can claim that now we are there can we
even claim that we have done industry
4.0 at least I have been in a businesses
that they they are not even close so my
answer is that hopefully some companies
will reach that soon and and the others
follow fast
so watch this space oh uh I think that
some of the companies are almost there I
because now okay it's it depends how you
define it and how widely you want to
think about it but but
um I would say that for example Nokia is
quite well on on is on its way well you
would say that wouldn't you yeah thank
you very much gentlemen it's been an
interesting discussion I don't think
we've solved all the issues or answered
indeed all the questions at this point
but we were never going to achieve that
in 45 minutes so thank you very much a
big round of applause for our speakers
please
if
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