US Presidential candidate Cornel West on Israel Hamas war, greedy ruling class and Biden vs Trump

Summary

In a thought-provoking podcast, Professor Cornel West, a prominent American intellectual, philosopher, and independent presidential candidate, discusses the moral decay and spiritual decay of the American Empire, particularly its foreign policy concerning Israel. West criticizes the United States for enabling and facilitating what he describes as a genocide in Israel, and he calls for a radical change in U.S. policy. He advocates for a one-state solution with equal rights and dignity for both Jews and Palestinians, and he emphasizes the need for a fundamental shift in American politics away from corporate greed and towards social justice. West also addresses the challenges of systemic racism, the importance of social movements, and the potential for change through political education and activism. He underscores the importance of hope and the power of truth-telling in the face of despair, drawing on his background as a black thinker and his commitment to social justice.

Takeaways

• 🗣️ Professor Cornell West is running for president as an independent candidate, offering an alternative to the current political choices.
• 🌍 West criticizes the American Empire for its deep spiritual decay and moral decadence, particularly in its foreign policy regarding Israel.
• 🏛️ He accuses the United States of enabling and facilitating what he describes as genocide and barbarity in the Middle East.
• 🤝 West advocates for a one-state solution in the Middle East where both Jews and Palestinians can live with safety, security, and equality.
• 💪 West emphasizes the importance of moral consistency and taking responsibility for actions, rejecting the use of 'anti-Semitic' to silence critics.
• 👥 He believes there is a growing number of Americans who are waking up to the organized greed and institutionalized hatred in the country.
• 🕊️ West aims to dismantle the American Empire and move towards a more dignified role for the U.S. on the global stage.
• 🏥 He is a strong supporter of socialized healthcare, the abolition of poverty and homelessness, and workers' rights, including paid leave.
• ✊ West is driven by hope and a tradition of fighting against despair, inspired by the resilience and struggle of Black Americans.
• 👮‍♂️ He condemns the repression of peaceful demonstrations and the excessive use of police force, an issue he sees as unchanged despite public outcry.
• 🌈 West's campaign is about bearing witness to the truth, seeking justice, and advocating for a better world, even if it's considered a 'naive dream' by some.

Q & A

What is the main concern expressed by Professor West regarding the American Empire?

Professor West expresses deep concern about the American Empire's moral decay and spiritual decadence, particularly in relation to its foreign policy towards Israel, which he perceives as enabling and facilitating acts of criminality and barbarity.

How does Professor West describe the current state of the United States in terms of its political leadership?

He describes the United States as being led by politicians who are tied to organized greed at the top and are contributing to institutionalized hatred. He criticizes both Trump and Biden, suggesting they are pushing the country towards civil unrest and global conflict, respectively.

What does Professor West believe is the role of the United States in the Israel-Palestine conflict?

Professor West believes that the United States is enabling and facilitating what he describes as a genocide in the Israel-Palestine conflict. He accuses the U.S. of being a genocidal denier, attempting to convince the world that atrocities are not occurring when they are.

What is Professor West's stance on the use of the term 'anti-Semitic' in the context of criticizing Israel's actions?

He argues that the term 'anti-Semitic' is sometimes used to silence criticism of Israel's actions. He believes that just as Jews have been victims of genocide, they are also capable of committing it, and that using the term 'anti-Semitic' to deflect from responsibility is morally inconsistent.

What alternative solution does Professor West propose for the Israel-Palestine conflict?

Professor West suggests that the two-state solution is no longer viable due to the number of settlements. Instead, he proposes a one-state solution with either a federation or a unified state where both Jews and Palestinians can live with safety, security, dignity, and equality.

What is Professor West's ultimate goal for his presidential campaign?

His ultimate goal is not just to become president, but to dismantle the American Empire and move towards a foreign policy that does not seek full spectrum dominance or impose its will globally. He aims to create a more decent and dignified nation among nations.

How does Professor West view the current state of healthcare in the United States?

He views the current state of healthcare in the United States as a sign of moral bankruptcy, highlighting the lack of universal access to healthcare as a significant issue.

What does Professor West believe is necessary for real change in American politics?

Professor West believes that real change requires massive political education, truth-telling, and the mobilization of people outside of the system to create pressure and provide wiggle room for action within the system.

How does Professor West respond to the criticism that his campaign is a 'naive dream'?

He acknowledges the criticism but argues that bearing witness to the truth and justice is as important as engaging with practical alternatives. He believes in the power of social movements and the importance of maintaining a vision alongside practical reflections.

What does Professor West think about the potential of his campaign to inadvertently aid Donald Trump's re-election?

He acknowledges the risk but emphasizes that he believes in allowing citizens to think critically and make their own choices. He suggests that his campaign is appealing to those who have given up on the system or those who would not vote for either major party.

How does Professor West differentiate his approach from that of Bernie Sanders, who has chosen to support Joe Biden?

While he has a deep love for Sanders, Professor West disagrees with his decision to support Biden, believing that Sanders recognizes the difficulties of staying within the Democratic party and its ties to corporate interests and imperial policies. West believes in the importance of integrity and not adjusting to an unjust status quo.

Outlines

00:00

🗣️ Introduction and Critique of American Foreign Policy

The first paragraph introduces the podcast 'Ways to Change the World' hosted by Christian Gir-mury, featuring Professor Cornell West, an academic, philosopher, and black leader running for president as an independent. West criticizes the American Empire's deep spiritual decay and moral decadence, particularly its foreign policy concerning Israel, accusing the U.S. of enabling and facilitating what he perceives as genocide. He emphasizes the importance of truth-telling and raising voices against such actions, despite controversy and accusations of anti-Semitism.

05:00

🌍 West's Presidential Campaign and Stance on the Middle East

In paragraph two, West discusses his presidential campaign, aiming to dismantle the American Empire and promote a more dignified international presence. He rejects the idea of a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine, considering it no longer viable due to settlements. West advocates for a one-state solution with equal rights and security for both Jews and Palestinians, drawing parallels with historical examples of reconciliation. He also addresses the perception of his views as unrealistic and the importance of challenging the status quo.

10:00

🤝 West's Vision for America and Global Impact

Paragraph three covers West's broader campaign promises, focusing on domestic issues such as healthcare, workers' rights, and the abolition of poverty and homelessness. He contrasts the American work culture with that in Europe, particularly the disparity in vacation time. West argues that his ideas are gaining traction among Americans who are waking up to the realities of organized greed and institutionalized hatred. Despite the challenges, he remains hopeful and committed to truth-telling and justice-seeking.

15:01

🏛️ The Challenge of Implementing Change in a Partisan System

In the fourth paragraph, West discusses the potential challenges of being an independent president in a predominantly two-party system. He believes in the power of truth and political education to mobilize people and put pressure on politicians. West emphasizes the need for social movements to support systemic change and expresses his disagreement with those who accept the status quo, including figures like Bernie Sanders who chose to support the Democratic nominee.

20:03

🤔 West's Response to Criticisms and Hope for the Future

Paragraph five delves into West's perspective on the criticisms he faces, including the potential for his candidacy to inadvertently aid the re-election of Donald Trump. He acknowledges the risk but maintains that citizens should make their own choices. West differentiates between short-term and long-term despair, asserting that his campaign is driven by hope and the desire to improve the world, inspired by the resilience and activism within the black community.

25:04

🌟 West's Ideal World and Final Thoughts

The final paragraph has West sharing his dream for the world, which includes abolishing poverty and establishing democratic structures in workplaces. He envisions a society less focused on short-term profit and more on the well-being of people and the planet. West's dream involves fostering genuine happiness and community, highlighting the importance of music and shared humanity. The conversation concludes with mutual expressions of respect and well wishes.

Keywords

💡Organized Greed

Organized greed refers to the systemic and structured pursuit of wealth and power by a group or institution, often at the expense of others. In the context of the video, it is associated with the top echelons of society and is criticized for leading to social and moral decay. The speaker implies that politicians are often intertwined with this greed, manipulating it for their own ends.

💡Institutionalized Hatred

Institutionalized hatred is the embedding of prejudice or discrimination within the policies or practices of a society or institution. The video discusses how this hatred is manipulated by politicians and is linked to the moral decay of the American Empire. It is suggested that this contributes to a climate where certain groups are marginalized and oppressed.

💡Empire

In the script, 'Empire' is used to describe the United States' global influence and power, particularly in the context of its foreign policy. The term carries a negative connotation, implying overreach and dominance that the speaker believes is leading to moral and spiritual decay. The speaker advocates for the U.S. to be a dignified nation among others, rather than an empire.

💡Genocide

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group. The term is used in the video to describe what the speaker perceives as the Israeli treatment of Palestinians, drawing historical parallels with other genocides. This use of the term is controversial and is a central point of contention in the speaker's critique of U.S. foreign policy and Israeli actions.

💡Two-State Solution

The two-state solution refers to the establishment of two separate states for Israelis and Palestinians in the region of Palestine. The speaker argues that this solution is no longer viable due to the expansion of Israeli settlements. Instead, he proposes a one-state solution with equal rights and security for both Jews and Palestinians, emphasizing the importance of dignity and equality.

💡Neo-Fascism

Neo-fascism is a term used to describe political ideologies or movements that resemble or inherit ideas from fascism, particularly in terms of authoritarianism and nationalism. In the video, the speaker uses this term to describe a perceived shift towards authoritarianism in the United States, specifically under the leadership of Donald Trump, whom he labels a 'neo-fascist piper'.

💡Abolition of Poverty

The abolition of poverty is a goal to completely eliminate poverty from society. The speaker, as an 'abolitionist,' calls for the eradication of poverty and homelessness, advocating for a more equitable distribution of resources and opportunities. This is presented as a moral imperative and a key policy position in his vision for the United States.

💡Healthcare Access

Healthcare access refers to the ability of individuals to obtain medical care when needed. The video criticizes the lack of universal healthcare in the United States, contrasting it with European systems where healthcare is more accessible. The speaker argues that the absence of healthcare for all is a sign of moral bankruptcy in the richest country in the world.

💡Corporate Duopoly

Corporate duopoly refers to a situation where two dominant entities control a market or political system. In the context of the video, the term is used to criticize the two-party system in the United States, suggesting that it is dominated by corporate interests and does not truly represent the will of the people or offer a diversity of political choices.

💡Moral Bankruptcy

Moral bankruptcy is a term that describes a situation where an individual, group, or system lacks moral principles or values. The speaker uses this term to criticize the current state of American politics and society, suggesting that the prioritization of profit over people and the lack of social support systems are indicative of a broader moral failure.

💡Social Movements

Social movements are organized efforts by a group of people to bring about social, political, or economic change. The speaker emphasizes the importance of social movements in driving political change and influencing politicians. He believes that mobilized citizens can provide the necessary pressure to challenge the status quo and advocate for policies that promote social justice and equality.

Highlights

Cornell West emphasizes the need to break away from organized greed and institutionalized hatred in the American political system.

West criticizes the American Empire's deep spiritual decay and moral decadence, particularly in its foreign policy towards Israel.

He accuses the United States of enabling and facilitating what he describes as genocide in Israel.

West argues for moral consistency, stating that Jews, like any other group, are capable of committing acts of genocide.

He discusses the controversial nature of his language and the accusations of anti-Semitism.

West clarifies his stance on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, advocating for a one-state solution with equal rights and dignity for both peoples.

He expresses his intention to dismantle the American Empire and pursue a foreign policy that doesn't impose U.S. will globally.

West criticizes both Trump and Biden, stating that they are both morally bankrupt and tied to corporate interests.

He calls for the abolition of poverty and homelessness and supports workers' rights, including paid leave and vacation time.

West addresses the challenge of effecting real change, acknowledging the strong backlash against movements like Black Lives Matter.

He expresses disappointment in Obama's presidency and explains why he believes appealing to a broader constituency is possible.

West discusses the potential risks of his candidacy, including the possibility of helping Trump win, but maintains that citizens should make their own choices.

He shares his vision for a better world, one without poverty, where people live with dignity and there is a focus on social and environmental justice.

West emphasizes the importance of truth-telling and raising voices against injustice, even in the face of controversy and opposition.

He calls for a political revolution that challenges the status quo and corporate duopoly in American politics.

West expresses hope in the younger generation's openness to alternative ideas and the potential for a more equitable and just society.

He reflects on the importance of integrity and honesty in politics and the role of social movements in bringing about change.

Transcripts

there's more and more Americans who are

uh waking up and realizing that the

organized greed especially at the top

the institutionalized hatred which is

manipulated too often by politicians who

themselves are tied to the organized

greed at the top uh that there there's

there's a need to break

hello and welcome to ways to change the

world I'm Christian gir mury and this is

the podcast in which we talk to

extraordinary people about the Big Ideas

in their lives and the events that have

helped shape them I'm talking to you

today from Tel Aviv in Israel where I've

been covering the news but my guest is

in Edinburgh even though he is a

prominent American Professor Cornell

West is an academic a philosopher a

black thinker a black leader and he is

running to be

president of the United States as an

independent he says the choice on offer

to the American people which currently

looks like Biden and Trump is no choice

he wants to be part of and so he wants

to offer an alternative but we begin our

conversation with the Middle East which

has been a big part of his campaign

Professor welcome to the podcast what do

you think is wrong with America's

position on Israel G and what do you

think it should

be well I just think that uh you know

the American Empire is in such deep

spiritual Decay and moral decadence that

the uh the veil has been ripped off of

US foreign policy as it relates to

Israel we're witnessing you know levels

of criminality and barbarity that's what

genocide is it could be Germany 1930 it

could be turkey and in the 1920s it

could be Rwanda we can go on and on but

that is what is taking place in United

States States is enabling this United

States is facilitating this and the

United States is now become a genocidal

denier it's denying this it's a lie it's

trying to tell the world in fact that

something is not taking place that is

actually taking place and so it seems to

me that any decent human being let alone

somebody running for president needs to

tell the truth condition of Truth is to

allow suffering to speak uh uh and we

have to raise our voices I'm here at the

U

blessed University of Edinburg I just

met some students here in in the

encampment and to me they are courageous

they're Visionary they're sensitive and

they're doing what any decent human

being would do was to raise their voes

in a context of unbelievable

barbarity as you know though the the

kind of language you're using is very

controversial and seen by many Jews and

particularly Israelis as in itself

anti-semitic they say

accusing Israel of doing what Jews were

a victim of in the Holocaust is uh you

know it's totally wrong because from

their point of view they say they are

reacting to an attack they warn people

they're trying to prevent civilian lives

to some degree can you explain why you

use that word of genocide um so

deliberately I mean one is one has to be

morally consistent there's no doubt that

presses Jews have been terrorized and

traumatized and hated for over 2,000

years uh but we have histories of course

of people who have been terrorized who

end up terrorizing others people who've

been traumatized end up traumatizing

others yes the genocide of Jews was

beyond description but Jews are human

beings and they have the capacity to

commit genocide like any other slice of

humanity and to think that you can use a

term like anti-semitic to absolve

yourself of responsibility you got to

take responsibility for your actions and

and and and when we look back 5 10 15

years from now it' be very clear that

genocide is taking place and I think uh

we're in a moment now where our Jewish

brothers and sisters many of whom many

of whom actually would agree with me

there's a wonderful sign here University

of Edinburgh Jewish brothers and sisters

say not in our name never again means

never again across Ross the board it's

not tribal and a Palestinian baby has

exactly the same value as Israeli baby

Israeli baby has the same value as a

Palestinian baby so I think there's a

sense of uh too many conservative Jews

and conservative zionists are trying to

absolve themselves responsibility by

using the term anti-semitic in such a

way that it silences the voices of those

at the encampment I try to silence my

voice but most importantly it

overlooks the Indescribable suffering of

innocent Palestinians who have been

massacred and murdered by the

IDF you're you're running to be US

president so as president what would

your position be I mean I assume

you you you pursue a two-state

solution no no no I'm running to head

the American Empire in order to

dismantle the American Empire I'm an

anti- pist I think that America ought to

be a decent and dignified Nation among

nations we don't need a full spectrum

dominance foreign policy that tries to

impose its will around the world we've

got 800 military units around the world

we got 130 Special Operations over 130

countries we don't need to do that as an

empire in deep Decay the last thing we

need is to extend military overreach to

deepen the corruption among our Elites

of both parties as you know that you got

Trump pushing the country toward the

second Civil War you got Biden pushing

the world toward the third world war

we've got we need a better choice than

that and our citizens are just

so frustrated and feeling impotent and

Powerless and as Plato and others have

taught us that's the makings of a um

tyrannical regime that's the makings of

a Neo fascism that's what you have

especially in Trump the Neo fascist pip

Piper so as president the first thing I

would do is stop the war we need to

siize fire I'd stop The Siege I would

end the occupation I would

defund Israel I would refund the relief

agencies and most importantly I would

move toward a situation in which Jews

and Palestinians can live together I

think the two the two-state solution is

gone there once was a time where we had

a chance for it but the 800,000

settlements now make it impossible the

last thing you want is a so-called

two-state solution where you end up with

a Palestinian State that's so fragmented

that's so weak and so feeble that you

end up reproducing Palestinian

subjugation and domination in the name

of a two-part State a two-state solution

that I think we need to be highly create

creative we need to be highly courageous

and so I think that there be a one state

either with with Federation or one state

across the board where there's

Jewish safety security there's

Palestinian Safety and Security there's

Palestinian dignity and equality is

Jewish dignity and

equality I mean what do you say to those

who say that's hopelessly unrealistic

that you have two sides who hatte each

other and they can't live together in

one state with equal say and equal

rights I'd say we have a number of

examples of people who have hated each

other the tutus and the hoies hated each

other black folk and white folk hated

each other in Mississippi and Alabama

There's a whole host of historical

examples of people who have hated each

other under certain circumstances and be

able to Accent to best and there is a

whole slice of Palestinians and Israelis

who have worked together who do not hate

each other uh but it's it's a long road

and for those of us who have

visions of of a better world we're

always viewed as naive

dreamers all the time what's ironic is

people say oh it's impossible and then

you break your neck and you actualize it

and they come back in the scholarly

books and say well it was inevitable no

it's people who cared people who took a

risk people who cut Against the Grain

that's what is necessary now in the

Middle East and the good news is among

the younger generation I've been to a

number of encampments now all around the

United States now here in Edinburgh and

among the younger generation you got

some magnificent Palestinians and

magnificent Jewish folk who accent their

common Humanity who can try to actualize

and realize what appears at the moment

to be a naive Dream well I mean that

that takes us to your campaign more

broadly then which which again as you

know many people say is a naive dream

explain why it's not well I mean one

it's certainly a naive dream through the

lens of out politic through the lens of

a corporate duopoly through the lens of

a unjust status quo oh there's no no

doubt about that uh but when you're

trying to tell the truth you're trying

to cut Against the Grain and of course

as a Christian I'm trying to live in the

world but not of the world and therefore

I'm always over Against the Grain that

I'm trying to Bear witness and trying to

be a witness so I'm not worried about

the names that are that that I'm called

I'm I'm concerned about the witness that

I'm trying trying to Bear the truth I'm

trying to tell the Justice I'm trying to

seek and uh we are on the Move I'm

telling you we are on the move and

there's a good chance Trump could end up

in jail and Biden can pull out and run

out of gas and have an LBJ moment and

say I refuse to run oh we're in a very

different situation now we're living in

real time my brother well if you're

right and and Suppose there was a chance

that Joe Biden does have to step back

and somebody else comes comes in is it

possible that you could support them

with the same policies absolutely not

all the same morally bankrupt policy the

genocide and ethnic cleansing not only

that but they're tied to Wall Street

they're tied to Silicon Valley they're

tied to corporate Elites who are

obsessed with short-term profit and

downplay satisfying the basic social

needs of uh of Americans I I'm living in

a country in an Empire we don't even

have uh access to health care for for

Citizens across the board that's a sign

of a certain kind of moral U deficit if

not moral bankruptcy so that uh uh the

Democratic party has been in the back

pocket at Wall Street for a long long

time and so if other candidates were to

emerge my hunches they would promote the

same Democratic party policies not just

Gaza but domestic policy as well because

I'm an I'm an abolitionist you said I'm

calling for the abolition of poverty the

abolition of homelessness or

unhoused strong supporter of militant

wings of the labor party so that workers

can be treated with dignity and have

access not just to wages and benefits

but have access to paid leave so they

can have vacations and live have some

leisure time with their families all of

this I think is very different U here in

Europe certainly here in Scotland I was

just talking to the brother re driving

the taxi talking about The Average White

Band I can't wait to go to that concert

on Saturday night it's one of my

favorites coming out of the black Funk

tradition and he was saying how he's off

to his holidays six seven eight weeks of

vacation Americans would look at that

and say oh my God what kind of world is

this well you don't have that kind of

world when you have greedy bosses that

squeeze your workers out of profit

you're lucky to get two weeks of

vacation in the United States now it

seems small it's very important to

people's everyday lives you see how much

of America though do you think this

resonates with you know there's an

assumption uh I think across the world

that America um as a as a culture as a

political culture is about the small

state you know so many people are

terrified of workers rights socialized

Health Care um you know State

intervention to abolish poverty as you

talk about it are are you preaching to a

small

choir it's

growing it's growing I think there's

more and more Americans who are uh

waking up and realizing that the

organized greed especially at the top

the institutionalized hatred which is

manipulated too often by politicians who

themselves are tied to the organized

greed at the top uh that there's there's

there's a need to break you know I I was

blessed to be in Britain in

1984 to be in solidarity with arth

Scargill and the workers when Margaret

thater was trying to crush the Trade

union movement Margaret thater would

always talking about Tina Tina there is

no

alternative there is no

alternative well that's what's been in

place in the United States for a long

time and we have to do all that we can

to shatter that kind of narrow framework

there's got to be a choice but how easy

do you think it is to deliver real

change I mean you know we spoke to

during the whole black lives matter

protest that followed the murder of

George Floyd um after all of that all

after all of that world attention how

much really changed about racial Justice

in America not too much I mean you had

some changes of names on monuments and

so forth but in terms of changing the

issues of uh

poverty Health Care safe communities

assess to a job with a living wage no it

hasn't changed at all there strong

backlash very strong backlash in the

United States xenophobic backlash deeply

conservative backlash and but that's

Parton parts of the history though

brother Christian you know you never

want to be surprised by evil or

Paralyzed by despair uh all Freedom

Fighters and Justice Seekers and Truth

tellers have had the same challenges in

terms of looking as if they're pushing a

a car up he with a rope but you do it

because it's right it's just it's moral

that's the kind of human being you want

to be and that's what's crucial well I

mean again in terms of Hope and change I

mean you know you you you supported

Obama initially but he turned out to be

a disappointment I guess from your point

of

view why why do you think you can appeal

beyond your natural

constituency well I I I think in a

moment of uh such Decay and decadence

things actually become much more um

fluid and let's just be honest about

this though that there's a younger

generation that's much more open to what

I'm talking about than those of my

generation and I think that's good news

actually uh but beyond that you know

it's it's not just a matter my brother

of utilitarian calculus let alone

mellian calculus it's a matter of trying

to hold on to integrity and honesty and

decency and generosity in a very

concrete Way by means of example of

mobilizing people so I do have a

commitment to things that are right and

just and moral without trying to argue

that the only thing you can do is to win

in a short term and therefore adjust

yourself to an unjust status quo and

think as if you're making a breakthrough

no I I don't accept that I don't accept

that I think that uh bearing witness is

as important as

engaging with the kind of practical

Alternatives and options that we have we

have to keep Vision in place along with

our practical Reflections I mean the US

election usually boils down to a few

States and that's how it's looking again

this time if the result of your

candidacy is to help Donald Trump win

the election how will you feel

well I don't think it will but I mean

there's always that possibility and

that's a serious risk and you have to

take responsibility for those

consequences but I believe each

politician has to make their case I

don't believe any any politician owns a

vote of a citizen they make their case

citizens think critically for themselves

and they choose most or a significant

number of folk Who U who are in my

corner are people who either never voted

keep in mind almost 40% of Americans

don't vote at all so I'm I'm I'm

actually appealing to a group of persons

who are just given up on the system as a

whole and then 62% or so who do vote

outside of the two- party system say

they would never ever ever vote for

either Republican or Democrat they'd

never ever vote for any one of the two

parties so that it's not a question

really of being a quote unquote spoiler

I mean that's part of the uh the pseudo

narrative that the uh there is no

alternative crowd likes to put forward

uh we've got to be able to be honest in

terms of just just how dire the

situation is and just how deep the two

parties are tied to the moral bankruptcy

but from your point of view who who is

who is the worst candidate Trump or

Biden well it depends on which issues

but they both just so bad when it comes

to crucial litmus test that it's hard to

make a choice it's hard to make a choice

and I refuse to be confined to just that

choice that's why I'm running for

president my brother when comes to

support of my precious gay brothers and

lesbian sisters Biden's better

absolutely there's no doubt about that

it's certain certainly when it comes to

Reproductive Rights for our precious

sisters Biden would be better no doubt

about it when it comes to supporting the

repression of police crushing students

involved in peaceful demonstrations on

college campuses Biden and Trump exactly

the same when it comes to Gaza exactly

the same so it depends on which issue

that we're talking about here but we

have to view them as a whole and we have

to view them as part and parcel of a

system that has been bearing down in

such an ugly way on poor people and

working people that's the key for me I

mean the man you mentioned a minute ago

Bernie Sanders who you once supported

has come to a different conclusion

hasn't he I mean he he feels that the

possibility of trump is so bad um that

Biden is the better choice uh and that

that is the realist IC Choice why do you

think he's wrong well yeah I have a deep

love for my brother I I think he's wrong

and I think he he recognizes too that

he's in a party that is so dominated not

just by corporate interest but but by um

these Imperial policies in the Middle

East especially and he he's been inside

of that party as an in independent

wrestling with the establishment of that

party and I think if you to talk with

him in the midnight hour he would sound

very similar to what I'm saying he just

feels as if there's no other alternative

and so he ends up supporting I I I

disagree with his conclusion I think in

many ways he agrees with me in terms of

just

how

um difficult it is for him to stay in

that

party and so we just have a disagreement

in that regard I I would wish that he

would have broken even in 2020

but we traveled the country together in

2016 traveled the country together again

in

2020 and we just have a deep

disagreement with his conclusions even

though he he agrees with the content of

much what I have to

say I mean if if we can go down your

road for a moment and say okay let's say

you become president the house uh of

Representatives and the Senate is still

dominated by Party politics How could an

independent president ever work work

with a system that is so party

driven well one I would be able to use a

bully pull pit so that I would engage in

massive political education I respect

the people enough to tell them the truth

so we put a spotlight on the corporate

greed we put a spotlight on the

thousands and thousands and thousands of

homeless people who ought not be

homeless we put a spotlight on poor

people almost 40% of black children

living in poverty and the richest Empire

in the history of the world that is so

spiritually obscene I put a spotlight on

it I talk about it day in and day out so

would put pressure on the politicians

and I would disclose and reveal so many

of our politicians tied to legalized

bribery and normalized corruption in

terms of the role of big money and the

role of the lobbies why is it that 70%

of American citizens want Medicare for

all but we can't push it through because

of the tremendous this power of big

pharmaceutical companies in their

lobbies I tell people the truth and we

would have intense conflict in

contestation because that

truthtv yous of those corporate Elites

and they see themselves reproducing

themselves over and over and over again

and I would

say your time is coming to a close so I

I would need social movements I would

need people organized and mobilized

outside of the system to give me some

wiggle room inside of the system I mean

it's it's clear how disappointed you are

with American politics I mean ultimately

is your run driven more by despair or

hope well I only separate the two my

brother um you know Gertie used to say

he he or she has never despaired has

never lived there is no such thing as

hope that's not wrestling with despair

that's what makes hope what it is it

just does not allow Des spare to have

the last word there's retail despair

there's wholesale despair I have retail

despair every day I'm a citizen decent

human being dealing with overwhelming

suffering in the world of course I'd

have a retail despair that's a sign of a

sensitivity but wholesale despair that

paralyzes me not at all I'm full of

energy vitality and vibrancy I'm full of

fight and I'll go down swinging and so

in that sense I am driven by a hope but

more than anything else is driven by by

a tradition again my brother see I come

from a black people who have been hated

and terrorized and traumatized for 400

years but the blues is not about despair

the blues about wrestling with despair

not allowing it to have the last word

and so in that sense it's the Deeds it's

the action is the willingness to open

yourself and empty yourself and leave

the world just a little better than you

found it that to me is what this

campaign is all about it's nothing but a

moment and a great movement of a great

people over four 400 years that is

concerned about telling the truth and

Embraces oppressed people all around the

world finally Professor if you could

wave a magic WS change the world in any

way how would you change it well I mean

I would abolish poverty that's that's

that to me is the first step uh and I

would ensure that there were Democratic

structures in workplaces so we could

curtail obsessions with short-term

profit be concerned about saving the

planet be concerned about poor and

working people living lives of decency

and dignity and I would be concerned

about trying to put a smile and more

genuine laughter in people's lives give

them the short term that they have on

the planet and that would mean in fact

there'd be a whole lot of music in our

lives as we're able to downplay the

obsession with satisfying B basic social

needs and revel in each other's Humanity

now you really got me dreaming here my

brother you really got me dreaming but

that's uh that would be part and pars of

what my dream would be

about Professor Cornell West thank you

very much indeed thank you so much I

salute you my brother be safe man