The Decline Of Christianity In America

Summary

In this insightful conversation, John Daniel Davidson, senior editor at The Federalist and author of 'Pagan America,' discusses the shift from a Christian to a post-Christian society. He argues that as Christianity wanes, the moral and cultural foundations it provided are also at risk of being lost. The discussion touches on how Christian doctrines, such as the belief in the inherent dignity of every individual, have shaped American values and government. Davidson suggests that without these Christian underpinnings, society may revert to a pagan ethos characterized by force and coercion. He also addresses the historical contradictions of Christian nations engaging in wars and subjugation, acknowledging these as departures from Christian ideals. The conversation challenges the notion that secular humanism or a 'Christless Christianity' can sustain the moral and cultural achievements of Western civilization, proposing instead that a post-Christian era may see a resurgence of pagan values antithetical to the principles that have guided societies for centuries.

Takeaways

• 📚 The author, John Daniel Davidson, argues in his book 'Pagan America' that the only alternative to Christianity in the post-Christian era is not secularism but paganism.
• 🌐 He suggests that as the number of non-practicing Christians and non-identifiers grows, the U.S. is moving towards a self-identified Christian minority for the first time.
• ⛪️ Davidson posits that the American system of government and way of life are products of Christian civilization and cannot exist independently of it.
• 🚫 Outside of Christianity, he warns that societal norms may devolve into a form of post-Christian neopaganism, which is based on force and coercion.
• 🤔 He challenges the idea that general morality or civic virtue could suffice to unite people without a foundational worldview or moral cosmology.
• 🏛 Davidson discusses how pagan societies historically viewed those outside their group as subjects for subjugation or exploitation, contrasting with Christian doctrine.
• 🇺🇸 He acknowledges that despite being a Christian nation, the U.S. has engaged in wars and acts of subjugation, but argues these are departures from Christian ideals.
• 🤝 The conversation touches on the potential for a 'christless Christianity' or secular humanism, but Davidson argues that culture relies on the vitality of its religious roots.
• 👑 He references historical debates within Christianity about the treatment of indigenous peoples, highlighting the influence of Christian thought on these discussions.
• 📉 Davidson suggests that as society moves away from Christianity, there is a risk of losing the moral virtues that have shaped Western civilization.
• 🌟 He concludes that the U.S. and Europe are entering a new, unprecedented era, and we should expect a resurgence of a pagan ethos that is fundamentally different from Christian morality.

Q & A

What is the central argument of John Daniel Davidson's book 'Pagan America'?

The central argument of 'Pagan America' is that the only real alternative to Christianity in the post-Christian era is not secularism, but paganism. Davidson suggests that as the number of practicing Christians decreases, the United States is entering a new era that will likely see a resurgence of a pagan ethos, which is based on force and coercion, rather than Christian moral virtues.

How does Davidson define 'pagan morality' in the context of his discussion?

Davidson defines 'pagan morality' as a system where if you are not part of my group, it's my moral duty to take what you have or subjugate you for the benefit of me and my people. He contrasts this with Christian morality, which posits inherent dignity and equality in every person.

What does Davidson suggest will happen to American values as Christianity declines?

Davidson suggests that as Christianity declines, the values and principles that have shaped American society, such as human rights, freedom of speech, and consent of the governed, will not be able to exist on their own outside of a Christian moral cosmology. He argues that these values will devolve into a form of post-Christian neopaganism.

How does Davidson respond to the criticism that despite being a Christian nation, the United States has a history of wars and subjugation?

Davidson acknowledges that there have been instances of subjugation and wars, but he argues that these are departures from the claims of Christianity. He emphasizes that Christianity as a moral and religious system claims equality between people, which is the basis for human rights and dignity.

What is Davidson's view on the possibility of retaining Christian moral virtues in a post-Christian society?

Davidson argues that it is not feasible to retain Christian moral virtues in a post-Christian society. He believes that these virtues rely on the religious claims of Christianity as the source of their vitality and coherence. Without the religious foundation, he suggests that society would naturally revert to a pagan morality.

How does Davidson differentiate between the ideals of Christianity and the historical actions of Christian nations?

Davidson differentiates between the ideals and the historical actions by stating that history is contingent and that the ideal of human equality or the perfect realization of Christian moral ideals has never been fully attained by any civilization, including Christian ones. However, he maintains that the philosophical and moral claims of Christianity provide a fundamentally different ontological claim about human beings than what pagan societies posited.

What is the role of the doctrine of imago Dei in Davidson's argument?

The doctrine of imago Dei, or the belief that each person is created in the image and likeness of God, is central to Davidson's argument. He suggests that this doctrine underpins the inherent dignity and rights associated with individuals in the American system of government and way of life.

Davidson mentions a 'pagan ethos' emerging in the post-Christian era. What characteristics does he associate with this ethos?

Davidson associates the 'pagan ethos' with a mentality based on force and coercion. He suggests that this ethos is in contrast to the Christian moral cosmology that has shaped Western civilization and that it may lead to a new social and cultural order.

How does Davidson address the issue of slavery in the context of Christian morality?

Davidson acknowledges that there were Christians who supported slavery, but he argues that this support was a departure from Christian principles. He points out that the abolitionist movement was rooted in Christian arguments that recognized the inherent dignity of all human beings as children of God.

What is Davidson's perspective on the argument that secular humanism or a 'christless Christianity' could uphold the moral and cultural values derived from Christianity?

Davidson contends that secular humanism or a 'christless Christianity' cannot sustain the moral and cultural values that originate from Christianity. He asserts that the culture and its values rely on the religious claims and vitality of Christianity, and without these religious underpinnings, the culture would lose coherence.

What does Davidson suggest is the fundamental difference between Christian civilization and pagan societies throughout history?

Davidson suggests that the fundamental difference lies in the ontological claims about human beings and their inherent dignity. Christian civilization posits that all humans are created equal in the image of God, whereas pagan societies historically accepted and institutionalized inequalities, such as the concept of natural slavery.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Introduction to Pagan America: The Argument

The first paragraph introduces John Daniel Davidson, a senior editor at The Federalist and author of a new book titled 'Pagan America'. The conversation revolves around the concept of 'Pagan America', which posits that as the United States moves away from Christianity, it is not becoming secular but rather turning towards a form of paganism. Davidson argues that the American system of government and way of life are fundamentally based on Christian doctrines, and without these, the country may devolve into a form of post-Christian neopaganism. He emphasizes the importance of the Christian doctrine of imago Dei, which holds that each person is created in the image of God and thus has inherent dignity, as a foundational principle for human rights and freedoms.

05:00

🌐 The Post-Christian Era and Morality

In the second paragraph, the discussion continues on the implications of a post-Christian America. The author argues that secular humanism or a 'christless Christianity' cannot sustain the moral and cultural values that have been derived from Christianity. He suggests that without the Christian moral cosmology, there is no basis for the inherent dignity and equality of all people, which are foundational to the American way of life. Davidson also addresses the historical contradictions of Christian nations engaging in wars and subjugation, arguing that these actions represent departures from Christian ideals rather than embodiments of them.

10:02

🏛️ Historical Context and Debates on Humanity

The third paragraph delves into historical debates initiated by Catholic monks and scholars regarding the treatment of indigenous peoples in the Americas following Columbus's arrival. It contrasts the Christian perspective, which engaged in debates about the humanity and inherent dignity of these peoples, with the presumed lack of such debates in pagan societies. The paragraph also touches on the concept of natural slavery and rulership, which was a common theme in pagan philosophies but was fundamentally rejected by Christianity. The discussion highlights the unique aspects of Christian civilization and its influence on shaping a more equitable and just world.

15:02

🤝 Conclusion: The Future of Christian Ideals

The final paragraph concludes the discussion by acknowledging the shared foreign policy views among the participants, despite their differences in perspective. It suggests that the conversation was beneficial, particularly for providing a viewpoint from the right. The paragraph ends on a light-hearted note, inviting viewers to engage with the content and subscribe for more in-depth discussions. It also hints at the complexity of linking nationalism with Christianity, given the historical behavior of the United States, and encourages readers to read Davidson's book for a deeper understanding of the topic.

Keywords

💡Pagan America

The term 'Pagan America' refers to the author's argument that in a post-Christian era, the dominant alternative to Christianity is not secularism but a resurgence of paganism. This concept is central to the video's theme, which discusses the potential societal and moral shifts as Christianity's influence wanes in America. The author suggests that as we move away from Christian values, we may revert to a more pagan ethos, which historically was based on force and coercion.

💡Christian Doctrine

Christian doctrine encompasses the fundamental beliefs and practices of Christianity. In the context of the video, it is mentioned as a foundational element that has shaped American values and the system of government. The doctrine of imago Dei, which posits that each person is created in the image and likeness of God, is highlighted as a key principle that has given rise to human rights and inherent dignity.

💡Post-Christian Era

A post-Christian era refers to a time when Christianity is no longer the dominant cultural and moral force in society. The video discusses the implications of such an era, suggesting that the loss of Christian influence could lead to a decline in values associated with the American way of life, such as freedom of speech and consent of the governed.

💡Secularism

Secularism is the principle of the separation of government institutions and persons mandated to represent the state from religious institutions and beliefs. The video contrasts secularism with paganism as alternatives to Christianity, arguing that secularism is not the only path forward as society becomes less Christian.

💡Human Rights

Human rights are the basic rights and freedoms to which all humans are entitled. The video attributes the basis for human rights to Christian doctrine, particularly the idea that all individuals have inherent dignity as children of God. This concept is juxtaposed against the pagan view of natural inequality and subjugation.

💡Inherent Dignity

Inherent dignity refers to the intrinsic worth or value of a person, regardless of their actions or status. The video discusses how this concept is rooted in Christian beliefs and how it underpins the American system of government and societal norms. It is suggested that without a Christian moral cosmology, the basis for inherent dignity may be lost.

💡Pagan Morality

Pagan morality, as discussed in the video, is based on the historical practices and beliefs of pagan societies, which often included concepts of natural slavery and the subjugation of those outside one's group. The video contrasts this with Christian morality, which posits equality and the inherent dignity of all individuals.

💡Golden Rule

The Golden Rule is a principle of treating others as one would like to be treated. It is mentioned in the video as an example of a Christian moral virtue that has influenced societal norms. The discussion questions whether such virtues can be retained in a post-Christian society without the underlying religious beliefs.

💡Aristotle

Aristotle, an ancient Greek philosopher, is referenced in the video for his views on natural slavery and natural rulers. His philosophy is used to illustrate the pagan view of inequality and the natural order, which the author contrasts with the Christian revolution in moral thought.

💡Nationalism

Nationalism is the belief in the importance of one's nation or country. The video briefly touches on the relationship between nationalism and Christianity, particularly in the context of the United States. It suggests that the historical behavior of the U.S. may not support a strong link between the two, given the conflicts and wars that have occurred.

💡Enlightenment

The Enlightenment refers to an intellectual and philosophical movement in the 18th century that emphasized reason, individualism, and skepticism of traditional authority. The video discusses how the Enlightenment led to overt rejections of Christianity and challenges to Christian morality, setting the stage for a shift towards secular or post-Christian thought.

Highlights

Author John Daniel Davidson argues that the only alternative to Christianity in America is not secularism, but paganism.

In a post-Christian era, Christianity as a self-identified group may become a minority in the U.S. for the first time.

The American system of government and way of life are seen as products of Christian civilization.

The doctrine of imago Dei (image of God) is central to understanding inherent human dignity and rights.

The loss of Christian civilization may lead to a form of post-Christian neopaganism.

Pagan morality historically has been based on the subjugation of those outside one's own group.

Despite being a Christian nation, the U.S. has a history of wars and subjugation, which the author views as departures from Christian ideals.

Christianity posits equality and human rights, in contrast to many other moral and religious systems.

The culture and its vitality cannot exist without the religious claims that serve as its source.

The author challenges the idea of retaining Christian moral virtues in a post-Christian society.

Ancient pagan societies, such as the Romans and Greeks, had fundamentally different views on slavery and social hierarchy.

Christianity brought a moral revolution to the pagan view of the world, positing a new understanding of human relations.

The author suggests an unprecedented era is emerging, characterized by a resurgence of pagan mentality.

The Ottoman Empire and parts of China had societies that abolished slavery later than the West.

Christian debates over the treatment of indigenous peoples in the Americas were a product of Christian civilization.

The concept of human rights and the protection of non-combatants in war were developed by medieval Catholic Europe.

Nazism and communism are cited as examples of post-Christian societies that rejected Christian morality.

The author argues that the ideal of Christian civilization is never fully realized but serves as a guiding principle.

Despite historical shortcomings, the author maintains that Christianity has produced the greatest civilization the world has seen.

Transcripts

we are joined Now by John Daniel

Davidson he's my colleague at the

Federalist where he's a senior editor

but for the purposes of this

conversation he's also the author of a

new book Pagan America John welcome to

the show thanks for having me of course

now a lot of our viewers and actually a

lot of the country is frankly not

Christian not practicing Christian uh in

the way that you write about in this

book and definitely probably looks at

this and says what does Pagan America

mean and I'm not even just talking about

people on the left what do you mean by

okay so it means we've separated church

and state good yeah right okay so uh

Pagan America is uh an argument uh that

there's really only one alternative to

Christianity and it's not secularism

it's it's paganism right um and I don't

mean that uh in a post-christian era

that we're in as you said you know many

people in this country a growing number

of people are not practicing Christians

and a growing number don't even identify

as Christians I think in about 30 20 or

30 years we'll have uh Christianity as a

self-identified group as a minority in

this country for the first time ever

right and they might hear postchristian

America and think and Ryan you probably

hear that and you think okay I think

okay postchristian America is fine part

of the argument of the book is that

America uh as we know it and understand

it uh is only possible with a Christian

people in other words a people who

accept basic normative claims of

Christian doctrine Chief among them the

doctrine of imod day that each person is

created in the image and likeness of God

and therefore has inherent dignity from

when we get rights freedom of speech

religion consent of the governed um all

of the things that we associate with our

American system of government and our

American way of life are products of

Christian civilization they can't exist

on their own outside of that context

right outside of that context they

eventually devolve into a form of

post-christian neopaganism and that's

the era that we're emerging into today

as we shed our Christian civilization

we're also going to shed those those

things that we associate with our

American way of life that I just

enumerated and the reason is because

there's no basis for them outside of uh

a Christian moral cosmology uh that that

posits you know what human beings are

and what the relationship to God is and

what the relationship to one another

should

be so I pride myself in reading all the

books for before before we interview the

author and I just did not have time to

that's fine to get to this one so I

apologize so I'm coming in totally kind

of blank um but why is that the case why

can't just appreciation for civic virtue

and love of country and just general

morality like be enough to stitch

together a people people well General

morality uh has to be based on something

a vision of the world or a vision of

what human beings are right so Pagan

morality uh and this this holds true

across vast expanses of time and

geography and and cultures is that if

you are not part of my group then it's

my moral duty to take what you have or

subjugate you for the benefit of me and

my people right uh and that's what we

see over and over again throughout uh

history the history of of pagan peoples

and cultures right so let me ask about

so we've been a Christian Nation for a

couple hundred years we have launched

more Wars than any other Nation maybe in

history like in the 200 plus years that

we've been a country we've done some

subjugating we've done some subjugating

there have been only a few years out of

all of those years even during our

isolation quote unquote isolation period

while we're enacting a

genocide uh that we were not at War with

other people and subjugating them so

what what either it's not true that

Christianity allows us in a meaningful

way to see others as as equals and then

and treat them as we would like to be

treated um or we are just overriding

that as an Impulse like when when is

this Christianity going to kick

in well I I I wouldn't m i I want to be

careful we don't mistake an ideal for

for you know the you know history is

contingent and uh and and we're never

going to attain the ideal of like human

equality right or um or or a perfect

realization of uh Christian moral ideals

uh United States didn't do it uh

European civilization didn't do it I

don't think anyone's ever going to get

it right uh but that doesn't negate the

um uh the the fundamental sort of

philosophical and moral claims of

Christianity right um Christianity as

opposed to many other moral and

religious systems does claim inequality

between people and that's that's where

we get things like human rights the

basis for human rights and and and human

dignity um and so why can't you take it

out like in a post-christian America why

can't you say we like the ideas that

came from Christianity golden rules

golden we're taking the Christ out of it

and like we just yeah a christless

Christianity in other words or a or a a

um uh a secular humanism right uh this

is this is the argument you know that

that step Pinker or Richard Dawkins

would make right you know they want the

culture without the cult but you can't

have the culture without the cult

because the culture relies on the

religion and the religious claims uh as

the source of its Vitality the source of

its coherence right um why should a

people who are post-christian um retain

Christian moral virtues right why should

I think that all men are created equal

um when clearly in many ways people are

not equal we we see inequality all

around us um and and and why shouldn't

we adopt a a pagan morality that says

you know inequality and this is you know

the ancient Aristotle said this you know

the ancient pagans they understood

inequality means that um some people are

naturally slaves and some people are

naturally rulers and and if if if you're

poor uh that fate has decided that you

should be poor and and and that's your

lot Christianity you know brought a

moral Revolution to this this Pagan

morality and this Pagan cos ology and

posited a radically new way of

understanding the world and our

relations and it launched a a a radical

shift in human civilizations that had

never before been seen and so America is

one expression of that right and I mean

we can have different interpretations of

American History European civilization

uh is of course where we came from uh

but we're entering and this is what the

book argues we're entering this new sort

of unprecedented era a post-christian

era and my argument is we should not

expect the uh the Christian cosmology

the Christian moral virtues that

organized the West uh for all these

centuries to remain intact cut off from

the source of their Vitality right and

we should expect something new and the

new thing we should expect is a

Resurgence of this Pagan mentality the

Pagan ethos which is one that's based on

force and coercion but I guess it I'm

still trying to figure out like I was

saying earlier when when does the

Christianity kick in like you if if the

country is founded on these Christian

ideals and the country had Christians

supporting slavery Christians supporting

the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans

Christians supporting the Spanish

American War the the pH these departures

I think these were departures from from

Christianity absolutely okay let's I

mean these are departures from the

claims of Christianity right it's sort

of like uh true communism has never been

tried well I people mock that idea when

you when when actual Communists will say

look when's the communism gonna kick in

yeah when's the commun like you say well

the Soviet Union wasn't great Cuba

wasn't great well then that wasn't real

communism um but communism only had like

a 200 year run Christianity has had

2,000 years right and and and well I

mean I don't know about you but uh I

think that Christianity has produced a

uh the greatest civilization the world's

ever seen right which one's that this

the one that we're sitting in right now

right but certainly a fairer and juster

world than we've seen before well that's

what I'm saying I mean consider

something like you know uh the r Empire

right uh we have a tendency I guess

since the enlightenment to sort of

romanticize the Pagan past and in the

Roman world and the Greek World those

were slave societies most people in the

Roman Empire were slaves they didn't

have anything like rights right if you

were a a Roman citizen or Roman

Aristocrat you could do whatever you

wanted to people who were at a low in a

lower station than you you could rape

them you could murder them uh you could

you could discard them and and it wasn't

seen so far from not being any kind of

moral censure it was it was like a mark

of your rank that you were able to do

this this is true all through Pagan

societies as I said across time and

cultures but what about what about the

Ottoman Empire what about a lot of

Chinese Empire like throughout Chinese

history like you had you had people who

had probably far more rights societies

too I and abolished slavery later

actually in most of the Ottoman areas

than were in the west and what's

interesting about I think actually is a

lot one of the grossest arguments one of

the grossest Christian arguments in

favor of slavery in the United States

was these are not people and what's

interesting about that is because you

know as soon as you acknowledge these

are human beings and you're a Christian

you have to treat them equally as human

beings CH was the Abolitionist argument

right well I was say if you could talk

because that's in the book about how

Christians get blamed for perpetrating

slavery I think rightfully there was a

Christian argument that was made in

favor of slavery it's a Christian

argument that's made in front of awful

imp ISM and uh to your point ethnic

cleansing but if you go to if if you

talk about what happened when Columbus

arrived it was B mes kasas that was

saying this is awful from a Christian

perspective yeah so the debates over you

know what should yeah what should uh the

proper disposition of Christian

Europeans be toward the indigenous

peoples of the Americas that was a

debate that was initiated by uh Catholic

monks and Scholars in in Spain right uh

who who had these the indigen had a view

on it too no I'm saying from the

European perspective of what should our

disposition be toward these peoples on

in the new world uh and there was a

there was a debate about their Humanity

about what responsibilities the Catholic

church and the crown had to these people

uh it was the kind of debate uh you know

the fact that they were having a debate

about this at all I would say is is a

product of Christian civilization it's

not kind of thing that would have been

debated in a pagan Society at all it

would have been absolutely just sub

these people debates in the Ottoman

Empire the debates in China debates in

Japan like there's everybody debates

like uh I'm talking about a debate about

whether or not these people should be

just enslaved like animals and and

treated as such or uh should their

inherent dignity uh and Humanity be

recognized as children of God and and

our goal should be to to Greeks and the

Romans all debated that uh and on one

side of I mean Aristotle debated the he

disagreed with the the practice how

slavery was practiced but he accepted at

the very beginning of the politics he

accepts the premise of natural slavery

and natural rulers his quibble is with

the implementation of it not not with

the the philosophical uh position that

slavery is a natural state for some

people and and this is this was common

but this was never accepted uh in in

Christianity in centuries and centuries

of Catholic Europe it was only in a

modern context uh in the 19th century

when the the antibellum South posited

this very unchristian uh very Pagan

argument that slavery was natural and it

was an abortion it was a departure from

how Christianity had been approaching

this issue for centuries and centuries

uh not only the new world against

slavery in like 1100 yeah that's what

I'm saying I mean the the idea of Human

Rights or of of of Peace of in you know

that that war should uh should be

confined and uh non-combatants should be

protected these were things that

medieval Catholic Europe came up with

it's true but one reason for that is

that these these Christians were doing

more war than anybody else in history

than who than gask

Khan gask Khan gas Khan gask Khan is the

exception more more War uh than North

Americans South Americans uh Chinese um

Africans more war than the Aztecs I

don't know more war than I mean more war

than the Egyptians Kaman you know look

look around the world like look at the

the biggest Wars and the US and Europe

you're talking about modern like World

War I World War II if you're talking

about right yeah but but if you look at

how far they went well World War II was

a pagan War right I mean Nazi Germany

was a post-christian

society uh communist uh the Soviet Union

was a post-christian society the these

were these were um n's primary argument

against Christianity was that it was uh

in some ways too Nazis were people I

think Nazis were yeah Nazis absolutely

Pagan so Nazis were honest enough like

the marquad right to uh uh to to say if

we're going to reject Christianity then

we then then the Christian morality has

got to go there's no basis to treat

people as though they have inherent

dignity and worth let's just liquidate

all these people but they tried to keep

the trappings they they liked some of

the trappings of Christianity but they

took chist quite literally took Christ

out of the Christianity and didn't they

go after the Communist as

Godless the Nazis were were their God

was sort of the the pagan vul right the

uh this very clearly hearkening back to

a pre-christian even in their Aesthetics

right you know the there's no sense in

which the Nazis were were a

manifestation of uh Christian cosmology

right this was this was very clearly

post-christian and so when I say

post-christian and the reason I say that

the Nazis were at least honest about it

is that it if you get rid of the

Christian claims uh you eventually have

to get rid of the Christian morality too

so I I mentioned the marqu Assad during

the Enlightenment there was this this

this rejection overt rejection of

Christianity and specifically attacks

against the Catholic Church marquad said

well not only should we attack

Christianity but we should sweep away

Christian morality as well there's no

reason why the strong should you know uh

scrape and bow before the weak that

that's against nature right that's what

n said too yeah that's and that's what

marad that's what n said that's what you

know the Nazis said right um and that is

what Pagan Society that's the principle

on which Pagan societies had always been

organized and what I'm saying is that

Christian civilization was organized on

different principles never fully

realized right ideals that we are always

moving toward never never quite going to

achieve because this is this is the

world and we're Fallen you know um

people are what they are uh but the

ideal and the claim the ontological

claim about what people are was

fundamentally different than what pagans

posited last r r no go ahead and read

this book but I I don't know I think if

uh if the US is held up as the example

um as the most Christian Nation uh that

doesn't bode well

for linking nationalism and Christianity

just based on our Behavior over the last

200 years I was say what's somewhat

interesting about this conversation is

that all three of us share very very

similar foreign policy uh at the moment

so I I don't know what your guys's

foreign policy he's a full

Lon um but no I mean we pretty much

agree on what's happening right now all

that is to say uh I actually think it

was this was very helpful to have a

conversation from the right uh we do a

lot on the left and it was great to have

one from the right I appreciate y'all

having me on you read the book and then

we'll come back and talk about it some

more and then we'll do a fist fight

there go it'll be see who can

try would wouldn't be not Christian well

if you leave me out of it it would be

kind of of Christian keep the women the

vulnerable out of this this fight all

right John Daniel Davidson thanks for

joining us thanks for having me

appreciate it hey if you liked that

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