The Hans Zimmer Composer Round Table

Summary

In this in-depth discussion, film score composers delve into the art of scoring, exploring the significance of using real orchestras and the impact of individual musicians' interpretations. They discuss the creative process, the importance of performance energy and dynamics, and how it translates to the audience. The conversation also touches on the evolution of sampling and digital music libraries, the challenge of maintaining originality in music, and the influence of conductors and orchestrators in shaping a film's emotional landscape.

Takeaways

• 😀 The quality of Spitfire's libraries is highly praised for keeping the composers busy and inspired.
• 🎵 Composers often prefer working with individual players and their unique instruments to create a distinct sound.
• 🤔 There's a suspicion that Spitfire might have taken inspiration from other libraries but pushed the boundaries too far with their Zima thing.
• 👥 The number of players used in an orchestra can greatly affect the balance and quality of the sound produced.
• 🏛️ Recording in well-known places like Abbey Road Studios isn't just for the Indian takeaway; it's because of the specific acoustics and atmosphere.
• 🎶 The evolution of music for projects like 'Game of Thrones' shows how music can grow and change over time, much like the characters and storylines.
• 👂 Listening to the samples and the way they're played can evoke emotions and set the tone for a film or series.
• 🎻 The individuality of musicians and their instruments is crucial in creating a unique sound that can't be replicated by a machine.
• 🎹 There's a debate on whether it's better to have the entire orchestra play together or to record sections separately for more control.
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 Having all musicians play together can create a collective energy and a more emotional performance.

Q & A

What is Spitfire mentioned in the script?

Spitfire is a company that creates high-quality sampled instrument libraries for composers and musicians. The script suggests that Spitfire may have taken inspiration from other libraries and created their own, possibly going 'one step too far' with certain aspects like the 'Zima thing'.

What does the speaker mean by 'down the center have one section of celli'?

This refers to a specific orchestral arrangement technique where the cello section is divided, with one group placed to the center and others to the sides, creating a spatial effect in the music.

What is the significance of the number 60 in the context of celli mentioned in the script?

The number 60 likely refers to the large number of celli used in a particular scoring session, which is unusually high and suggests an extremely large orchestra setup for a very rich and full sound.

What is the 'Zima thing' mentioned in the script?

The 'Zima thing' is not explicitly defined in the script, but it seems to refer to a particular feature or aspect of Spitfire's sampled libraries that the speaker finds to be excessively complex or overdone.

Why does the speaker mention '32 basis' in relation to Dunkirk?

The '32 basis' likely refers to the number of stems or individual recorded elements used in the soundtrack for the film 'Dunkirk', suggesting a complex and detailed mixing process.

What is the importance of the number 24 in the script?

The number 24 is mentioned as the number of bases Spitfire uses, which the speaker considers insufficient compared to the 'enormous amount' needed for a balanced sound, suggesting a criticism of the library's scope or quality.

What does the speaker mean by 'it's not a string library it's these individual players'?

The speaker is emphasizing that the quality of the music doesn't come from a generic string library but from the individual talents and characteristics of the string players recorded.

What is the significance of the speaker mentioning 'Indian takeaway'?

The mention of 'Indian takeaway' is likely a humorous aside, suggesting that the choice of recording location is not just about the quality of the sound but also about the amenities, like food, available there.

What is the 'experiment' referred to in the script?

The 'experiment' likely refers to the process of arranging a large number of string players in an atypical way, such as positioning different groups to the left and right, to see how it affects the sound and music creation.

Why does the speaker mention 'Henry will know how to make something huge'?

This suggests that 'Henry' is recognized for his ability to create large, impactful soundscapes or musical scores while still maintaining a sense of refinement or sophistication.

Outlines

00:00

🎵 Spitfire's Library Inspirations and Music Composition

The speaker discusses Spitfire's music libraries, suggesting they were inspired by others' work, particularly string sections. They mention using an excessive number of violas and cellos for a balanced sound, emphasizing the importance of individual musicians and their instruments. The narrative also touches on the significance of recording in familiar rooms and the impact of the musicians' collective experience on the final sound. The speaker reflects on the challenge of creating a refined yet grand sound, comparing it to Henry's work on 'Blue Planet'.

05:00

🎼 The Emotional Connection to Instruments and Performances

This paragraph delves into the deep relationship between musicians and their instruments, likening these instruments to an extension of the musician's identity. It discusses the emotional weight of archived music samples, which can serve as a memorial to musicians' skills and the changes in technology that have preserved these performances over time. The narrative also touches on the poignant story of an oboist who, feeling his skills fade, threw his instrument into the Thames, highlighting the transient nature of a musician's career.

10:02

🎧 Sampling and the Evolution of Music Composition

The conversation explores the impact of sampling on music composition, where the speaker discusses the process of layering orchestral samples to create rich textures. They recount their experience with Batman Begins, where they initially aimed for an electronica score but ended up incorporating orchestral elements. The challenges of recording ostinatos and the subsequent re-recording for separate cues are highlighted, emphasizing the iterative nature of the composition process.

15:04

🎹 The Creative Process and Trust in Music Composition

The speaker reflects on the creative process in film scoring, discussing the trust directors place in composers and the challenges of writing music that serves the narrative. They touch on the idea of writing with restrictions to foster creativity and the struggle of revisiting themes across multiple films. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the composer's process of finding new ideas and the mental energy required for TV and film scoring.

20:08

🎬 The Dynamic Nature of TV Scoring and Character Development

This paragraph focuses on the evolving nature of TV scoring, using 'Game of Thrones' as an example. The speaker discusses the process of developing music over multiple seasons and how the music reflects the characters' development. They also touch on the challenge of laying narrative 'pipe' for future seasons and the importance of being able to adapt and evolve musically to fit the show's progression.

25:17

🎻 The Impact of Orchestral Players on Composition

The discussion centers on how the presence of orchestral players influences the composition process. The speaker shares insights on the energy and inspiration that come from directing musicians in real-time, as opposed to working with pre-recorded samples. They also discuss the importance of the players' understanding of the music's narrative and the collective spirit of the orchestra.

30:18

🎼 The Art of Subtlety and Dynamic Control in Performance

In this paragraph, the speaker emphasizes the art of playing quietly and the emotional intensity it can convey. They discuss the challenge of achieving a beautiful, quiet performance and the importance of dynamic control. The narrative also includes a discussion about the shared breath among musicians and the impact of room acoustics on the performance.

35:19

🎶 The Role of Imagination and Technology in Music Composition

The speaker explores the role of imagination in music composition, contrasting the use of technology with traditional orchestral arrangements. They discuss the importance of creating a shared experience for the audience through immersive sound design and the use of historical techniques in modern compositions. The paragraph also touches on the idea of using space and architecture to enhance the listening experience.

40:20

🎵 The Influence of Orchestral Recordings on Composition

This paragraph delves into how the sound of an orchestra, influenced by the room and the recording environment, can shape a composer's work. The speaker discusses the impact of recording in iconic rooms like Abbey Road and the importance of capturing the unique acoustics. They also touch on the challenge of programming brass instruments to sound realistic and the importance of capturing the breath of the musicians.

45:20

🎹 The Creative Journey from Idea to Composition

The speaker reflects on the process of translating musical ideas into compositions. They discuss the importance of finding the right instrument and player to bring a piece to life, as well as the challenges of writing for specific musicians. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the limitations of samples and the importance of writing with the end performance in mind.

50:23

🎻 The Significance of Personal Connection in Music Performance

In this paragraph, the speaker emphasizes the importance of the personal connection between the composer and the musician in creating impactful music. They recount a specific experience where a cellist's performance brought a piece to life, highlighting the transcendent nature of live performance. The narrative also touches on the risks and rewards of pushing for new musical ideas.

55:28

🎼 The Transformational Power of Music in Film Scoring

The discussion centers on the transformative power of music in film scoring. The speaker shares an anecdote about a key scene in 'Prince of Egypt' and how the right musical performance can elevate the emotional impact of a film. They also touch on the importance of being open to new ideas and the challenges of reinventing musical devices to serve different emotional needs.

00:28

🎶 The Evolution of Music Technology and Composition

This paragraph explores the evolution of music technology and its impact on composition. The speaker reflects on their early experiences with sampling and sequencers, discussing the limitations and creative opportunities they presented. They also touch on the importance of adapting to new technology and the role it plays in shaping a composer's sound.

05:29

🎵 The Impact of Orchestras on Film Scores

The speaker discusses the enduring impact of orchestras on film scores, highlighting the importance of live performances and the energy they bring to a composition. They reflect on the experience of recording with the same orchestra used in '2001: A Space Odyssey' and the challenges of working with analog equipment. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the role of technology in capturing the emotional performance of musicians.

10:30

🎼 The Role of Collaboration and Creativity in Music Composition

In this paragraph, the speaker emphasizes the importance of collaboration in music composition, sharing anecdotes about working with other composers and musicians. They discuss the creative process, from initial ideas to final performances, and the impact of different approaches and technologies. The narrative also touches on the importance of being open to new ideas and the challenges of maintaining a fresh perspective.

15:32

🎶 The Influence of Personal History and Experience on Composition

The speaker reflects on how personal history and experience shape their approach to composition. They discuss the influence of their family background, early musical experiences, and the importance of encouragement in pursuing a career in music. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the role of discipline and the decision to focus on music over other career paths.

20:32

🎵 The Power of Music in Visual Media and the Composer's Role

In this paragraph, the speaker discusses the power of music in visual media, using the example of a film they disliked but appreciated the music. They share the story of how they reached out to the composer and the impact it had on their career. The narrative also touches on the importance of recognizing and supporting talent in the industry.

25:35

🎼 The Creative Dynamics of Music and Film Collaboration

The speaker explores the creative dynamics between music and film, discussing the process of scoring and the importance of understanding the narrative. They share anecdotes about working with directors and the challenges of translating visual concepts into music. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the role of technology in the composition process and the importance of samples in conveying musical ideas.

30:36

🎶 The Importance of Performance in Music Composition

In this paragraph, the speaker emphasizes the importance of performance in music composition, discussing the impact of the musician's interpretation on the final piece. They share stories about working with different musicians and how their individual styles can influence a composition. The narrative also touches on the importance of casting the right musicians for a project and the challenges of capturing the essence of a live performance.

35:41

🎵 The Role of Technology in Modern Music Composition

The speaker discusses the role of technology in modern music composition, sharing their experiences with different digital audio workstations and the creative opportunities they provide.

Keywords

💡Spitfire

Spitfire refers to Spitfire Audio, a company that creates high-quality sampled instruments for composers and musicians. In the script, Spitfire is mentioned as a source of inspiration for creating libraries, with a discussion about their sampling techniques and how they have pushed the boundaries with their products, such as the 'Zima thing' which indicates a specific library or feature.

💡Libraries

In this context, 'libraries' refers to collections of musical instrument samples used in music production. The script discusses the quality and impact of these libraries on composers' work, suggesting that the richness of the libraries has kept them busy and influenced their creative process.

💡Strings

Strings in music typically refer to a section of bowed instruments like violins, violas, cellos, and double basses. The script mentions composers' work with string ensembles, highlighting the importance of individual players and their instruments in shaping the sound of a piece, rather than just considering it as a generic string section.

💡Orchestra

An orchestra is a large instrumental ensemble that typically includes sections of string, brass, woodwind, and percussion instruments. The script discusses the composer's experiences with orchestras, emphasizing the importance of live performance and the individuality of each musician within the ensemble.

💡Samples

In music production, 'samples' are recorded sounds that can be manipulated and used in creating music. The script talks extensively about sampling, particularly the process of capturing individual instrument sounds and the impact of these samples on the creative process and final composition.

💡Batman Begins

Batman Begins is mentioned as a film project where the composer worked intensively with ostinatos and the orchestra. It serves as an example of the challenges and creative processes involved in scoring for film, including the use of sampling and the interplay between the composer's vision and the final film product.

💡Ostinatos

Ostinatos are short, recurring musical phrases or patterns that are typically repeated throughout a piece. The script mentions the composers' experience of recording ostinatos for Batman Begins, indicating the laborious and detailed work that goes into creating a film score.

💡Game of Thrones

Game of Thrones is referenced as a significant project that consumed a large portion of the composer's life. It exemplifies the long-term commitment and creative investment required for television scoring, where music must evolve over multiple seasons and episodes.

💡Temp Tracks

Temp tracks, or temporary tracks, are placeholder music used during film editing to set the pace and mood. The script discusses the challenges and creative tensions that can arise from temp tracks, particularly when they become too influential in the final music selection process.

💡Immersive

Immersive in music production refers to creating an all-encompassing auditory experience. The script mentions the goal of making music that is truly immersive for the audience, suggesting a desire to envelop listeners in a rich, multi-dimensional soundscape.

💡Performance Pride

Performance pride refers to the heightened sense of ownership and quality that musicians bring to their playing. The script discusses how the competitive spirit among musicians can elevate the performance, leading to a more engaged and emotionally resonant result.

Highlights

Discussion on Spitfire's library quality and its impact on composers.

Comparison between Spitfire's approach and traditional string libraries.

The importance of individuality in sampled instruments.

The challenge of creating a realistic and balanced orchestral sound with a large number of violas.

The significance of the room's acoustics in recording and the role of 'Air' in music production.

The evolution of string library concepts and their impact on composition.

The role of individual players in creating unique textures in music.

The emotional impact of using samples from older performances.

The process of adapting orchestral performances to fit film scores.

The influence of the room's acoustics on the perception of an orchestra's performance.

The balance between the composer's vision and the orchestra's interpretation.

The challenge of maintaining creativity and freshness in long-term projects like 'Game of Thrones'.

The importance of the relationship between the composer and the musicians.

The impact of technology on the evolution of orchestral sampling.

The role of imperfections in creating realistic and emotionally engaging sampled libraries.

The importance of the performance aspect in orchestral recordings.

The emotional connection between the musician and their instrument.

The influence of the environment on the musician's performance.

The process of creating and using sampled instruments in film scores.

Transcripts

we could make this into like an

incredible plug for Spitfire because

there could the quality of the libraries

have kept us so busy

I'm loving the 10 years so anyway what

what my suspicion is Spitfire have

finally copped to where they cut the

hole inspiration from for doing us

libraries and they've tried to sort of

copy what we've done with strings etc

forever except of course they've taken

it one step too far

um the Zima thing and like really crazy

so when I did scores was 28 celli

thinking that's a lot of cherry right

they've actually done 60 but I know that

on Dunkirk correct me if I'm wrong been

I had 32 basis it's only and I I do

believe this is where Spitfires let us

down a little bit because they only

using 24 bases it's an enormous amount

of violas an enormous amount you know so

everything is balanced and it was just

the experiment of what would happen if

you down the center have one section of

celli let's say and then to the right

you could have them and to the left you

can have them people always go oh it's a

string library they forget it's not a

string library it's these individual

players it's those people that we know

with those instruments and that's that's

what makes the whole difference and it's

like all the people in this room with

the exception of Andy mr. synthesizer

well no no but in a funny way it's it's

all the players we have worked with over

the years and we sort of know are

suddenly you know and it's about the

individuals and then you actually hear

the individuals and it's actually

recorded in a room

that we we know there's a reason we go

to those places it's not just because we

like the Indian takeaway even though

there's such refined us in your writing

and then every once in a while it gets

really huge and I was thinking oh Henry

will know Henry will know how to how to

make something that is incredibly huge

but somehow still seems to have the air

of refinement about it it's sort of

English education you got to guys have

been doing on blue planet with you know

because that was I thought that was very

cool that Spitfire actually designed a

library but for what you were doing

yeah you know so you know forget that

it's a strain library nowadays it's like

because the library that I love is the

one I can never pronounce the guy's name

on there you know because I always call

them Arnold olaf's which is really it's

okay no because I love I love the

because you've got this and it's really

about the player strings he's done two

now one is it's like a very small like

octet on kind of sound and then the

other one is now at the chamber section

right it's really textural to like it

it's you know he has these evolutions

that kind of that start as one thing and

they develop it's yeah it's kind of like

it ends up being like a weird secret

weapon that you can throw on something

but I mean but but what we did as well I

mean you know when we went to London on

a recent movie let's just keep it

nameless for now you know that this

whole idea of actually having really big

sections but have this sort of

individual sort of move

within them and really extraordinary

things there was like some symphonic

chema musical most they are these waves

and everyone bouncing off each other and

the chaos that came from that it was sad

lots of surprises it was quite beautiful

yes but well of course you've been

making a living relying on one solo

channel talk about the intimate sound

you pick your library in a funny way

because of the players and their

instruments and you want you want to you

want to make sure it's not about them

like a you know I'm saying this looking

at microphone an owl would kill me but

it's it's actually not about the mic so

much it's you want people who have

really great instruments you know and

really play with a start well there's a

kind of relationship that these

musicians have I mean these instruments

are kind of an extension of who they are

and especially when you go to air it's

it's this terrifying idea this

unbelievable sort of just expansive

expensive very old and gorgeous

estimated it's quite quite overwhelming

actually but actually actually I loved I

think I can tell this I mean I think I

took you to air for the first time when

we were doing Batman Begins and you got

like you had the best room because you

had the Attic like hideout and Chris

would just live up there with you you

know

experiments were going on forever you

know so I I liked that everybody I mean

everybody in this room has a connection

in one way or the other with those

players and and I think what was fun for

those players is because those players

never all get booked for one session

right and they all know each other yeah

yeah you know and so I listen to a bit

of love it's funny talking about

individual players because I still

sometimes take

you've got an oboe sample from back in

the day that has actually weirdly become

a kind of archive memorial the plane you

can end up because the technology you

guys some weird time displacement where

when the frail fingers of an actual

amazing player failed you to old age the

sample weirdly lives on so it ends up

being this quite poignant record of a

type of playing that there's more to

that story because that oboist

he realized at a certain point in his

life that he wasn't sounding that great

anymore and he actually went on to

Chelsea bridge or Waterloo Bridge and

took his oboe and threw it into the

Thames

so yes really it's like it's a bit like

Tony priests cello yeah she's my

favorite cello and then Tony sold it and

stopped playing and I'm going I you know

so sampling becomes this thing where

were actually you you can still have the

tone of yours that police libraries is

amazing a chic especially when he plays

unbelievably quietly unbelievably high

nothing quite as fragile and makes you

lean in we can do that would be like a

picture editor just pulling up footage

of Brando whereas and when he feels like

it we got all of this performances but

it is amazing that we do that so this

because people are not familiar with you

know how how sophisticated the sampling

is a property sort of not fully aware of

how much the performance especially so

especially stuff you did the stuff that

you've done over the years that is solo

instruments actually really does become

a mmm a record of people's well and its

personality yeah and part of their

personality of cursory you guys all know

this because you've done it is of course

they want to do what you want them to do

so you're you know you're you're sort of

a co-defendant and

you know coke criminal Ramin remembers

very well days and days of sitting at

air recording Batman ostinatos and

nearly it nearly ruined a perfectly good

friendship between everybody right I

mean you know it was one of the worst

ideas ever maybe were they how long was

it three three months four months we

were there for long we were in it for a

while but but but yeah III don't know

you see somehow managed by having that

attic room you've managed to keep like

yeah you you had sanity you know you had

that the elevator couldn't even reach

anymore you have to take the stairs for

the last rites great and and and so when

whenever you wanted a bit of sanity

you'd go take the elevator and then walk

up to remains room in comes like like

you you busily made magic while

everybody else was going slightly insane

buildings amazement has all these kind

of hidden passages and rooms upstairs

really does yeah but you know it's just

think talking about Batman Begins

because when I was having like some

pompous music philosopher it is sort of

interesting the way the way all those

Austin also has worked actually it's

sort of an interesting question that is

to do with that kind of stuff sounds

absolutely brilliant as samples when the

samples are amazing and you almost end

up when a score is that concept driven

and it feels you know it's the sort of

parts that you could put in a sequencer

as much as an orchestra the fact that

it's all been so many samples have been

used actually sort of comes full circle

so that what you're asking of players is

actually starting to be influenced by it

more secret right type well that's a

very specific thing we're not asking

DaVinci carpet in that specific case

well but our original idea was correct

me if I'm wrong we were trying to write

an electronica score and get an

orchestra to before

exactly which is not a commercial or

casual attitude was it was there was

some there were some learning involved

for the players like on the creek so did

you spend time before just recording the

ostinatos no we actually did it last

which was because we wanted them

separate and that that was sort of they

were saying we'd recorded the queue so

we thought we'd done and then we had to

go and we caught every cue again just

for that another layer and that's what

became like oh my god this was such a

bad idea I thought we were done and then

I don't think people were really doing

that at the time I mean we then took

those recordings these performances and

we had music editors everywhere just

tightening in of them up so yes it had

been so if if it had been samples it

would have been a lot easier that's

where all bad ideas you learned

something from but I just think it's

just thanks for exactly and because that

kind of writing is sort of sequencer and

sample driven conceptually it ends up in

a really interesting gray area because

if you actually as well as having

samples around in the mix room if you

have these Austin are so poised but

they're also managed timing wise it

you're more in a sort of Trevor Horn

production territory than a Deutsche

Grammophon

you know the name is except for you know

[Music]

it does something to the emotion in the

room where you have a huge Orchestra who

you know they've just come from a

rehearsal with you know with no kick

track and they're they're used to

playing just after the downbeat yes

everyone's together and they breathe

together to the exact other end of the

spectrum where there's a machine gun in

your ear right and you got to play four

notes between each machine gun right and

and it's physically very exhausting and

you know you've got to do this for three

hours without hatred yes with exactly

with love with musicality with

expression and it's kind of puts you in

a sort of strange place I think as a

musician which will affect

mrs. Batman Begins this is about someone

you know mental illness creating

nightmares for people maybe

there was a bit of method acting earlier

in the school that wasn't what's

interesting from Hansbrough just

speaking to you for a second I'm sure

you don't mind

but what's crate was crazy about its

hands having put that idea together you

know as you go to London to record it

the massive big picture of how this

whole jigsaw is going to be put together

if you find yourself on the second row

on day 7 of that you don't necessarily

have that so you have to trust there's

like this you you may be a player's

thinking this doesn't make an enormous

amount of sense to me I said well you

know what it doesn't it but but there

are people for whom it does right and

the whole jigsaw is gonna be put

together and ready you may not

necessarily understand when you're on

bar 19 yeah the other the other things I

mean we you know I mean look you're

working with his brother right now

I mean one of the great things about

what has happened over time is now that

directors actually trust us that we go

this this will sound a little weird but

all all the strings are going to do is

go diggy diggy diggy do you know for a

very very long time but then I have this

thing in my head which you can't hear

yet because it's just in my head you

know and it will turn into a piece of

music you know eventually well I'm not

sure music is the correct but I mean

look you you you then ran off

screaming quite rightly so and decided

to do your own thing and do you have to

because Game of Thrones which I have now

studied extensively while on tour I mean

it just absolutely saved my life on the

pass every night you know you got so

many styles of music in it and you got

so many different things going on so

that that your me going oh well we had

to sit there and record ostinatos for

Batman it's nothing compared to what

you've been up to which is seventh

seasons so how many years of your life

has it been

it's been you know 2011 so yeah let's

not do the math yeah it's like because

when we were working on Batman Begins so

we thought that's it right we're gonna

go1 Batman movie we'll never do a secret

or anything like this

and to people it it was three movies but

to us it was 12 years of our life you

know it's like you know Chris walking in

one day and saying oh I got this other

idea you know and oh suddenly we were

doing the Dark Knight but if you think

about it you know in the amount of life

that we've actually put into I'm not

saying I'm begrudging it's it's it's I

can't say it's always fun but it's

always interesting it's always

discovering something you're very mean

but you see because because I condensed

your life or the work you did into

binging every night many many many

episodes and going oh I see oh hang on

that's the demo oh I see new ideas

coming it oh he's got a little port here

so he's put a new whole new spin onto

something I mean am i reading this

correctly yeah no and I wish it would

come that quickly the struggle of

getting there - right yeah Batman Begins

I think it's a good example to use

because I thought we only had to surf

this one movie we had to serve this

amount of time I never knew we had to

come back to these ostinatos and

suddenly by the second one you go oh my

god did I actually write myself into a

corner what else can I do with it that I

did because I did everything I could

with it in the first one you throw

everything

I mean don't don't you find that that

it's like you've done it all and then

you sort of have to go and revisit it

and weirdly you do find that there's a

new well it's that thing of way you know

you give yourself certain restrictions

in order to generate something fresh

it's almost better than having

everything on the

because then it's you know it's an

embarrassment of riches and I guess

whenever the betterment of ready yeah I

mean I got empty drawers I felt it when

you said earlier to me that you finally

found it your eyes you know and I didn't

react Church promise I sort of went

great he's going to live another day you

know I mean do you or because I think

people assumed that we who seem to be

you know people just see the end product

right just like you said you know well I

wish it had come as quickly as I watched

it right I mean they they understand

their struggle you know you've got to

find the idea and then you've gotta find

the tune that actually matches the

concept of this idea and it takes it

takes it's it's never just sit down and

don't know is what they're really

frustrating things it's always on an

annoying exponential curve which is why

I meet me I haven't done massive

successful extensive TV like for me but

what the amount of energy required to

get exactly the right ideas for the

characterization the narrative or

anything is the big brain time and then

when you actually do figure it out yes

and then keep saga and then by the time

you get to the end you like you can

throw another two of these movies

because we all know what we are it's

finished we got to do it again with a

completely different films now set in

like 16th century France and like they

forget it's a bit like building a

Formula One car on the next season it's

helicopter rides so you can't you can't

just wheel out the same no I mean III

mean seriously what your word you're

talking about it's I mean there's the

thing that I am that just floors me is

how you manage to keep this incredibly

complicated structure going you know

right it's the arc is we all know

amazing yeah yes it's funnier in yeah I

try to challenge myself every time when

I start a new season of thinking of how

can I do something new and how can I

develop what I had started into

something else and and at what point

during that process to go I made such a

terrible mistake I should she stuck with

the thing for suddenly putting a piano

in mm-hmm I noticed that you're not

going why is he suddenly putting a piano

in and I was thinking he's trying to

tell me something you you're saying to

me it's a lie

am i right so something as simple as oh

he changed his vocabulary it's a tiny

bit and you changed it in a really

subtle way I mean it's it's the most

benign instrument you could pass it on

or instrument you could just put it

right and that made me go danger and up

to that point we had never used it so

and it didn't feel like oh I've run off

colors and so now I'm gonna do this that

would be the kazoo vibraslap so that was

that was planned right I mean completely

it completely translated to somebody as

idiotic as me who to this day does not

know the characters names I can never

remember character's name yeah but but

also that shows evolved a lot like I

couldn't imagine the scene that you're

talking about in the first season like

it's it's become kind of a different

show and I feel like the music has

changed a lot right yeah definitely yeah

the music just kind of follows that that

development of those progress and their

development I mean that's interesting

doesn't really happen in movies because

it's self-contained I mean it's not like

you get reels one at well sometimes you

do but generally you get a movie so it's

sort of interesting when something's

that long the actual the process and

yeah yeah

is not you the whole way you're trying

to get to and laying pipe on the rest of

it is a bit more kind of on the flight

because it you're rolling with where

they're going as opposed to knowing the

last scene in a three and a half hour

long Terry Malick though at least you

know what the last you know it's

fascinating you know it's quite

interesting and the writers also don't

necessarily know that's what's that mean

as yes I was really in this sense of the

Breaking Bad craters and I was saying

you know they were gonna kill off Jesse

just in that first season and and just

it was too good he was to essentially

and he is the most iconic you know

character and TV so you know and but the

fact that they were completely unaware

of its character when they started yes

it's amazing it's a particular skill

because imagine a circle you could get

your knickers in a bit of a twist in

relation to events that have gone before

and I imagine it's the same with the

music it's got to grow out of where it

came in just a new stuff doesn't just

completely appear out of nowhere but

it's also got a move with well-known oh

yeah but you're constantly laying pipe

oh yeah yeah do you yeah and I listen to

my show runners a lot I mean they set me

up in this that look this particular

tune that you're gonna write for this

character needs to do this three seasons

later so I listen to them okay so

they're aware enough their way and they

got me and then I write it that way that

I know eventually it has to do it is to

go bigger and has a darker something and

according to that that's how I tried to

set it up but I think this is another

thing that people who don't write film

musical television or whatever whatever

it is we do they don't realize that we

have to not only just come up with a

tune or a motif or something that is a

good piece of music it has to become

efficient it has to be able to turn in

yes

malleable it has to become evil yeah but

not all those things you know it's

making a stem stone less out which can

be yeah create all kinds of other

permutations and I've seen the potential

what I'm finding I'm constantly writing

myself into chorus by by by having an

idea Joe cheering it's like and then

half way down half way down the road you

go

it becomes an unsolvable burden so yeah

I remember you telling interesting story

like that to do with having to get rid

of one of your favorite caught you would

you were starting to work on so it was

cut off it was a stage but because

you're really good at knowing you've got

to kick the tires really heavily on

something to know it can do all the

things it needs to do and you weren't

happy with it and and eventually the

solution was to shoot your favorite toy

no I had this car yeah and that was

actually the beginning of where where

the problem was being dismissed the one

thing you didn't want to get rid of the

whole thing start to fall into place

once I got rid of my favorite bit I mean

really you know like like I most the

time I just I'm just happy if it's not

[ __ ] you know it's not not Samsung a

grown up composer and then that was the

thing that you know and then I had to go

on Kenneth because you know I could not

it stopped

any any progress from happening yeah

it's like oh Henry and you know I know

about this well the preview goes really

well with the temp music oh yeah and

everybody goes but the preview went well

so therefore we should do what the temp

music no temp musica C is the enemy of

invention you know it's like you can't

it absolutely unless the preview goes

badly which is a good thing that is

fantastic

if the spottings just sort of in the

right place and that's about it

oh it's actually really useful when it's

complete [ __ ] because it produces an

angry feeling of what yeah you know the

creative reaction that becomes even more

sort of fervent because it's like every

I'm hearing is exactly what must never

happen and so it actually it's mode it's

motivating that only is a bit to posting

if it turns they go oh no this is this

is kind of great right yeah we'll talk

about that I remember he made a very

interesting point about Tim which is

that for the few occasions where

directors have unwisely temporarily

potentially not giving you all the

freedom that you want because of a temp

moment I hate the freedom comes

responsibility

you make the interesting points that we

look before you all start freaking out

on this piece of music being incredibly

similar to the frame and to the shake

blah blah blah don't forget that the

piece of music that you've fallen in

love with a certain point in time was a

free it was written in a free

environment where someone wasn't

behaving how you are behaving right now

yeah which is it because otherwise

everything would be a recycled version

of something that something that

someone's got used to but you have to

start with at some point there have been

pieces where there has not been a

tyrannical regime of obsessing about

exactly what one which I thought was a

really good point well hang on who in

this room hasn't been in the situation

where every time we do something right

every time we get a job

basically what they say just we want

something new then you do something new

and then you know people sitting around

this table listening to it and they're

going and and I've really learned and I

wonder if you have this as well on you

because you're doing new all the time to

something that has a set path yeah and

you're doing something new you sometimes

you didn't it's it's like why and you

need to give them a second thought to

breathe and to get used exactly what you

remember that moment hidden figures with

tab mal fear there was in the montage

scene it was tempts with this very

serious lots of up her Geo's kind of

they're really getting down to business

pay attention and furrow was in the room

and you know they will this is the tent

this is gonna this

and he just kind of went to the keyboard

and just started playing a bass line

which was just basically a kind of funk

bass line and just and very simple and

and it's just any sort of put some drums

on and them

this is go with this and Ted narrative

like wow really like the temp and then

there's side news there was this

wonderful moment

a week later where we presented the the

result in queue which was this kind of

insane

big band funk gospel thing couldn't be

more different from the temp and Ted

sort of was like a GOG and his reaction

which i think is the greatest compliment

was I think I loved it I like we play

again that is like yeah I love it

everybody just it was that exactly what

you're saying it needs a bit of audience

yeah and then the or and of course the

audience loved it right you know because

it was kind of business yeah it was you

know but so how do you get to preview

anything oh is it all in the in the in

the privacy of your own paranoia

definitely yeah it's all second-guessing

yourself yeah yeah go to your Braverman

no because my last resort always is you

know if if there's a is this a good idea

as as a parody I'm going let's pull out

in front of an audience

let's go and see what they say and yes I

have been taught many things by an

audience going that is [ __ ] I mean but

sorry we're supposed to in one way or

the other

yeah that's where the samples come in

really handy because I can go and at

least it's not me on the piano doing

it's like able to workshop I am actually

going but you invented that I mean when

he when he started something the

orchestra everyone was demoing on the

piano I mean as far yeah but maybe not

everyone but I don't know but it was a

way of being articulate about it and the

other thing is and this is

I mean this was the thing where I was I

will take credit for this

something was absolutely thought of as

the enemy of orchestras at the time you

know and especially our casual players

were all growing right know run the

other way and I remember going to all

those players in London saying let me

sample you and I promise you I guarantee

you it will create more work because I

will be able to convince directors more

easily that an orchestra sound is

something relevant and commercial and

will will enhance will enhance your

picture you know and then most of you in

this room at one point or the other

you've got to have to you know have the

same tools and and convince your

directors and go yes it sounds great on

these samples but there's this player I

know of this cellist you you know we get

like we we use different chalice because

you and I and I love that you know

because you you write for that chalice

and that is a particular tone that is so

important to that series you use

different players yeah I think he's you

definitely use different players because

I know I walk into a band well first

session I don't know anybody whoa

there's so many players like there's so

much talent yeah and there's this

amazing thing that happens I've always

found like when you have a director in

the room with the demos and you know

framing it in such that this is a bit

like you know you're doing your color

grade or you're doing it edit you can

touch the music cause you can touch the

samples you can change things on the fly

but that moment where you're in the room

with those those players and a lot of

people who you know don't necessarily

always do sessions they're just you know

really great young talent there's a kind

of energy I feel like with the

filmmakers where they feel like that

they're on set against sometimes and

they can actually reach out and touch

the music and inject story just through

performance in the same way they work

with an older and that's that's a really

amazing wonderful thing which i think

means that orchestras will always be

part of our culture and film music it's

I mean having just an all-electronic

score which was an amazing experience

going back as the orchestra is yeah can

I talk about that because Bend being

kept on coming so from the world of

having been so immersed in the world of

the orchestra

he actually put some Orchestra sessions

on blade row and I kept saying great

that's a really good idea that's loving

that let's just move them down a little

bit that'd be another cue that was

totally electronic and oh yeah that's

pretty good out there so we don't need

an orchestra I don't know yeah I ended

up with one cue with a little bit of

Webster it's what what you want you know

that's that's why I think that the you

know the only isolate what I call the

Icelandic intimate strings right is this

one palette and it's really specific

because you can hear those players and

then you know that like you what's that

sound you always use but fire library

which I love well there's this felt

under loud though it came from actually

I think the very first beta of their

when they started making samples and

then thankfully if they put it into some

later libraries and it's there's

something about you can hear the breath

of the boat yeah and just you creep it

in and such where the audience have no

idea that this it's there but by the

time you you're there you're emotionally

engaged and especially the way they've

recorded it you know beautifully up in

the gallery it's it's it's one of those

sounds which is literally the top of my

template I mean you know look part of

why why I got into this sampling thing

is is because those musicians inspired

me and I just wanted them I wanted to

have them hanging around with yeah you

know it's like there you go yeah such a

thing is like a true pianist man I

remember back when I was studying

conducting there was this when I went

one of the lessons was how to actually

create a pianist in our own Orchestra is

actual one of the hardest things was

your piece enlightened

well it was just this thing of if you

can hear the player next to you you're

too loud

and I remember watching rehearsals back

you know well maybe that players too

well that were yes is that but it's this

it's a it creates so much tension in a

good way

you know it's and it actually I think

requires even more energy than playing a

huge fortissimo but if there's something

so ethereal and just emotive I love I

love I love that you actually say that

because I've never been able to

articulate it but it's it really is the

truth that that the lot of the time that

I spent the longest with an orchestra is

is to try to get them to play quietly

it's so hard

it's all it's so hard to get beautiful

nice very tension quiet I'm always going

I think edge off right someone's going

to stall exactly if that was pinis I'm

cool okay so if you think that spin is

about I'm calling that like mezzo Forte

plus yeah so you're gonna have to go

through the performance pride I mean

working or movie where the whole point

was to be as franchise for a bit like

what you're saying you get to the point

where the consistency is falling apart

and the tones bullying and sometimes

they're quite embarrassed about that not

realizing that's actually a process the

story the more it sounds that you're

clinging on for dear life but what you

say about this sort of performance pride

is it's quite amazing seeing a section

go okay this is insane but we're gonna

nail it on this next part and there's

something it's like that team spirit and

you don't want to be the guy who comes

into the wrong it's quite it's very

inspiring well I have a feeling that

part of what Paul and Christian were

trying to do on this new library was to

get all these players into a room that

there would be a little bit of

competitiveness Jarius like Ohio said

well you know you know I've I better I

better give because the guy next to me

can hear if it's the most beautiful tone

or not you know so and

think it's itself an amazing testament

to the you know that these orchestras

are wrong but that you can actually find

60 amazing chalice in London do it and

there's no chanting going on there's no

dodgy play you know it's bit more

difficult to tell someone slightly had a

chairman says 60 of them

no doesn't your ear go because I have I

don't know I don't know this is sort of

a question for everybody I always hear

the person that place was the least

confidence and actually place quiet ill

in my ear just goes there he doesn't

know why he's playing that nervous he

doesn't know the contest is just there

you know and and that's what [ __ ] up

the performance for me you know I think

what happens is when you have a mass of

players is because you can never do it

in real life I mean part part of it was

to try to do something that you can

never ever III don't think samples

should be about mimicking reality I

think they should sort of try to

supersede reality so to have a section

which is that large it's basically about

getting something which is so silky and

so you know that you know that the the

mass of air being moved in a quiet yet

undeniable force is actually really

interesting and it's probably no other

room in the world that could even

accommodate that air if you think well

Abbey Road look Abbey Road one you can

put a lot of players and it's a

different the height it's the height yes

and it's it's all the swimmy stuff I

just really hope that Pope Mike's right

at the back and see all the sound of

teller yeah from back there that might

be it's such a versatile room because he

could Batman Begins I mean the one of

the it wasn't about writing a tune it

was about this idea that the French

horns would be up in the gallery so -

right architectural e sometimes we I'm

sure all of you have done similar weird

things you know it's fine I'm having to

get you start as a choir boy in supposed

evil because there is thirteen point two

seconds and I'm worried so it's fun if

your singing talents or Palestrina

victorious I think it's fine because

it's all modal harmonies not gonna have

some octatonic shift and it all sounds

great and then you some pompous

nineteenth-century guff like Perry or

Stanford or something just sounds like a

disaster because by the time you roll

throughout the you know late 19th

century chords down in the net it's it's

all become a completely different things

so so there's you know you're in good

historical but the horn for thinking

architecture right but then if you look

at those unbelievable like that the

talus those works which are all about

and Tiffany as well surround the

audience in a in an immersive experience

I mean that's kind of yeah that's a

Shinto Jeremiah sort of like right the

seven point one that's it

and it's kind of I guess what we will

strive for when we record film music and

now demo it is in a mess like truly

immersive to the audience and but that

idea is 500 years old I mean it yeah

they just didn't have quite so many

faders such a lesson that when Ridley

was shooting Hannibal and Florence he

was shooting a scene at the monastery

that had a small Brunelleschi chapel and

so everything was you know it's cordoned

off because they were shooting and I

wasn't I was in the chapel which really

became a storeroom and this tourist had

somehow managed to wander and

and he didn't see me I was just guys I'm

you know what box them whatever he

started really quietly humming and so

exciting the room and

started harmonizing with him it was just

like oh that's what this right that's

like a me images you know roll it round

and right but to see somebody who you

know he knew he could do that in that

room and he'd obviously snuck past all

the dogs everything because that it's a

mastery that is always closed and except

for when you have a film crew and he pay

the money but it was just such a such a

great lesson and and and acoustics

that's why you have to record in really

good rooms I mean it doesn't you know

it's not just some researchers it's not

just the instrument you you know you you

picked your you right to the room don't

you right to the room don't you right to

the room yes brass players play the room

to that correct creating legato

just knowing how long they happen you

know yeah I know I know they want that

yeah gives you an extra so I often take

quaver off right as the air does that

yes it does the clave it they're glad

for anyway yeah because they're good

breathe and the circuit right a louder

so much so many programed brass with

actual legato which is impossible it

always sounds unrealistic Isabel yeah if

you hear a sing on you edit out all that

all the breaths it's like you actually

feel physically strange there's

something wrong yeah it's it's about a

string player see that too it's always

amazing that sense of if they're gonna

come in together and you don't breathe

with them if you're you know out there

waving around zero there's no way

they're going to tear it's that sort of

that shared breath the wind players

brass players - it's quite oh no it's

quite a amazing thing to be part of I I

like doing samples not to click mmm but

conducted it sounds different yeah yeah

that's an interesting yeah but because

it's a shared breath that's it I never

knew what Paul's secret formula was

there was this thing about this bit far

away when they started what is the

secret fire

but for my other status it is about that

but it's like playing melodies or

playing in such a way that it's not just

okay here's a D sharp in five different

[Laughter]

and made them stand out from the

beginning cause it I'm not wanting to do

sin e other libraries but there was

nothing else like it when they started

doing it well it's not dissing our

loners I mean I use all the I I use

whatever I can that makes an interesting

noise for the appropriate thing I mean I

bet you use everything you can right

kinds of baseball cards a good some

pieces I think what's interesting is

that like a lot of the new libraries are

starting to emphasize the imperfection

and I think it's really inspiring to

like for instance the one that we use

for for blue planet they have these

clouds you know sort of Epping and

flowing all you know these articulations

and sometimes they would you know

there'd be like a woodwind or brass they

would pop up a little too much that you

couldn't necessarily use it in a in the

way that you wanted to but like you'd

hear like a rhythm in the way that it

would they would do that and and maybe

that would create a loop that would just

you know create the rhythmic start to a

cue or something so you know but the

Icelandic strings that you're talking

about I think it's interesting that like

it used to be let's get as perfect as

clean as possible and now it's kind of

like let's get some character and dip

them all yes yeah because I'm crazy I

just thought oh crazy anyway I don't

think it's just because he ya know I got

a nickel as a Tina and then power and

power and everybody because I thought

these are great but these belong to our

Lord Allah for Arnold's okay thank you

please maybe forgive me but what was so

interesting is that you you gave the

same instructions but two different

musicians

yeah and they sounded totally different

well that's the thing you know

it's it's it goes without saying you'd

think you know play so the sound almost

breaks but this violinist you know he

has a just different method of producing

that and and know if that was a an

interesting thing putting them side by

side yeah and and I don't think it was

fair of Tina to post a picture on

facebook of how our fingers look yeah I

bled my pinkie member on the holiday oh

yeah I wrote some ridiculous piano part

in the full knowledge that you were

getting all excited about the MIDI bass

and because I knew it was gonna be fed

MIDI to whatever that machines cool it

was just ridden right man enough meets

ugly side doesn't matter I'm not going

to play it you know we fight it through

the machine yeah with bitter comping

yeah like oh they're in the piano

yes but no on the dance floor but yeah

but I don't regret that was great I mean

but but that's the whole point

I mean isn't that the point of

[Music]

everything we do you know there's no

reason for Spitfire to do some insanely

crazy

SuperDuper expensive library right now

other than that that it's fed by the

ambition of us because we want to go and

write an impossible piece of music and

we want to have some impossible new

tools that inspire us to do something

that nobody has ever done before right

because because I mean again I'm looking

at the history of your life which has

now been in a funny way

all those years have been very much been

defined by Game of Thrones recently that

it's gotta be an adventure and it's

gotta be something it's all in part if

it if you knew now that everything

you've done on that series if at the

beginning on day one somebody

said to you this is the task this is

what you're going to do this is this is

the amount of music you're going to

write the this is the amount of

unsolvable problems we're gonna present

to you would you have said yes to the

following problem the cast of characters

and this is what's gonna have it that's

quite daunting for sure it's what you

said yes or would you have said let me

give you a phone number of somebody I

know that you should probably do this

now definitely have to sleep over but

you didn't because it's out like

whatever I mean the opening titles felt

like impossible and then you wrote them

and then you managed to move on right

what do you write them on did you write

them on a piano I mean I'm sorry this is

really like a dumb question

just because it's so obviously written

for that player I think I think it was

on the piano yeah I had the cello in

mind but it wasn't just a cello it was

that player right because I mean do do

you do this you do you write for

particular players in mind well yeah

sometimes I'll start to get into the

discipline that I'll just put the name

you know how something can get a bit

technical and it's like cello just a

toast for time people don't like it get

rid of that just put Steve because well

the apartment part for me is because it

stops you the limitations of samples

which are getting fewer and fewer but

you know if you listen to John Tavener

you'll son I think yo-yo Ma's been

sitting on that Allegra see yeah for one

minute and 57 seconds so far and it

sounds amazing it's just gonna sit on

the Emmy yeah it's gonna and so but to

reassure yourself you just sort of put

Steve yes

oh I Steve oh absolutely

you know I mean I haven't held onto an

Allegra see but but but the point being

that if you do put an A it actually does

sort of get you in mind of knowing it's

gonna go a lot further however good the

samples oh it's obviously gonna go well

I have that I had that this is how far

something gets come alright so the first

DreamWorks animated movie Prince of

Egypt the key scene the most important

scene is no it's not the parting of time

see you gotta get to the parting of the

Red Sea wire the death of the first oh

yes right death pretty grim right so

good kid stuff do get something so I

wrote this piece which I mocked up on

the most horrible cello sample for

literally solo channel one channel

seeing Tony please in front of my eyes

playing it and bringing it to life and I

remember playing it to Jeffrey

Katzenberg and he's going this you don't

understand this is a key scene I mean oh

no when the sky prays it on his channel

it's going to be I promise you if it

doesn't move you I'm gonna pay for for

hope I'm rewrite it I'll pay for the

whole Orchestra to come back he'll pay

for us to all fly back to London first

session Prince of Egypt no we're not

doing that cue yet we're just doing any

of something the cell phone rings and

out in the orchestra everything

Wow rude and then I see Tony getting up

out of his chair packing his channel I'm

going stop stop what's going on he's

right listen mate gotta go wife's having

a baby

look let me go she's gonna have the baby

I'll come back but after she's had the

baby

this could take a very long time luckily

she had the baby relatively so that

night he knows fashion and he came in

and he sat down and and he was I mean

you know he had a transcendent moment I

see there just witnessed the birth of

his child except out one take and in

typical Tony fashion just how was that

okay

did you go to another

no no that's and that was that you know

and it really was that one player

playing that beautiful instrument

playing transcendently and that's that's

what I want I want you know that's

that's why we're still hunting down

these samples because I am trying to

have transcendent performances that we

can use every day so that could have got

really wrong I felt I felt defeat you

know Plus bankruptcy it's also good to

always be pushing for new things because

in the same way that any given

performance of an orchestral piece it's

never the same thing twice even if it's

the same Orchestra and even if it's with

the same conductor if there's definitely

a grass is greener if you just sit using

the same samples all the time I don't

know if you fact what you've done anyway

so it's looking for new ones but you

totally have the grass is green

I don't ever have this experience is

you're just in snow oh what's that

that's kind of yeah those are really

good and the reason you're thinking that

is because when you hear the audio

Oh Maude 66 it starts doing that and you

go and you go into some other in

actually be that they're better like you

know it's no but that's what I mean

there are no better samples or worse all

right it's courses for course yeah I

mean there are certain symbol roles

I just cannot listen to you because I

remind me oh there is performance in it

because that's why you have that

sickening feeling of and maybe that's

why I have use the symbol role and

trendy hot gear right you know or hop

class marquetry oh no no mark trees yeah

no no but yeah exactly it's it's it's no

things which are sort of devices which

in a funny way don't get really any more

individual yeah and and and I make it in

a in a funny way my duty to figure out

yes a symbol role would be a perfect way

to get to this cart you know so

everybody else down a symbol role how

can i reinvent the device how can i go

and do something which isn't a symbol

world then serves the same emotional

problem so that was a spoke sort of you

know by with the illustration i if you

use echo where Henry's saying there's

something that there's a sort of strange

association you have with oh absolutely

that chord played on that sample it's

it's I personally think whenever there's

a new score and you're gonna have to

mock it up there's just something about

I'm gonna buy this library and even if

it's completely wrong there's gonna be

something in it yeah it sparks something

well well my world the symbol roll thing

really got me because my flashback

instantly to symbol rollers I used to

have one sample of a symbol roll so it

reminds me of abject poverty and

so yes the the simple role days weren't

that great you know let me put it that

way there's gonna be a chapter no I

don't ever want to go and use the symbol

roll again because it were my plus it

wasn't just not having money

it was have it not having ideas neither

you know because everybody else was

using a symbol mo to get into the the

cops or whatever you know I thought

that's what you're supposed to do and

then I realized I was sounding like

everybody else and you're not supposed

to do that yeah that's I got excited

when you guys said Oh Blue Parrot we

have an idea we have an idea for a

different type of Orchestra that point

dualistic thing you know I'm going oh

good luck good luck dangerous but you

know yeah it's just a different way of

expressing a musical idea no well

reinventing it I think oh you know we're

thinking of I just love the idea that

you guys were coming from a from a

different disciplines we're looking at

paintings during oh there's a painterly

approach to this is a person you know

III would have I would have done the

draw will go and hunt down an instrument

as opposed to what you guys were doing

which was think about what would a

painter do you know the nice thing was

when you have six hours of music to

write it was you know you have themes

and then you also have the sound to go

back to all the time that feels like

another theme this this right this

custom-made thing that's just for this

project that has to do you know

conceptually with what you're trying to

do and it's the same thing as going back

to a tune you know when you were when

you bring up those sounds it was like

okay we're in the ocean this is what

we're trying to do so yeah it was yeah

well that's that's my sampling and all

that stuff is the devil's candy because

yeah you sit on that project

and then it sounded really good on this

project and so everybody knows it now so

you have to go and do it all over right

and and find find a completely new way

of doing it it's that discipline at the

have a truly Bank slate

even when you have four thousand sounds

in front of you just don't have it yeah

but but then I don't know I mean what do

you do I mean you do you how do you have

like a beautiful template not well

because because you're laughs I'm not

yeah I'm the own probably the only

person who still refuses to give a way

better even if you do have a billion

things going on you can actually sort of

manage it better but it has a more

liquid wake you I mean I've started

flipping the cube a submit' has a much

better way of whilst you do have a

million things

hang on I'm in shock that this system of

management exists or that I've even

touched no no because I I love that that

I mean you know we've had this

experience you know where we both work

on the same on the same thing but it's

not just because we are different people

but because you use different technology

the result is slightly different you

know it becomes really interesting I

mean you were so where I am no no not

where you are so I headed like audio

manipulation you and Andy actually are

very much I mean the same well I I think

actually you are the worst because you

you you you you means the best yeah

because you show no loyalty to any

sequence or anything like this you know

you always use what's best for your idea

anyway and you have a template exactly

so everything is fresh it's like

lipstick do you know it's it's like

eating a Nobu you know you know and and

it's only sometimes that I come and say

you know something it might be really a

good

if you just used to bug study we are

really out of time yeah that the

sequencer is just as much an instrument

as DeSales as well you know is this that

that relationship there yeah I mean I

I've always been secretly sequencer

agnostic I think yeah you know and

sometimes I use logic sometimes if use

Ableton sometimes most of the time I use

Pro Tools because of the audio facility

what but um yeah I mean in each program

has their own way of its own sort of set

of limitations and advantages so I think

to be able to sort of go back and forth

between them is a really useful thing

it's like having a bunch of your tiles

or a bunch of cents for a bunch of

sample hmm and what being loyal to

anyone in particular

ya know except Lee you do it you'd I

mean he does it to an extreme degree you

know which which is exactly which is the

great thing because you know it's like

by be your predicted what is predictable

about Andy is the unpredictability of

what what's gonna what's gonna happen

there and then there's this sort of

amazing picture that is being created

the subsonic thing that you know you

never heard before you never expect it

right you know it's really good and it

it's it really is a painterly approach

you know and it's you know it and it

could only be Ondi you know it's like

there's like a big signature on the

bottom of fetch which is really cool I

guess in ProTools also that your

sessions is that you're committing to

ideas from the start and so you're kind

of seeing ahead multiple steps you're a

MIDI obviously a constantly shift and

change I enjoy I know instantly [ __ ] me

up you know I go down a particular route

and I think right this is the way and

then I realized no this is [ __ ] this

isn't working

okay delete select tool see ya

start again

yeah this it's this something akin to

buying on paper I guess

yeah with ink yeah yeah yeah I remember

having to use to work like that because

I just didn't have enough RAM and I

would have to balance all the time

that's how it's a little but it's in

it's nice because you're like this is

the idea that's like working with four

tracks right yeah yeah yeah yeah

especially when it comes to Sam Desai I

was remember recognizing there's a point

it could be a bit of a control freak

like me when I was doing Winter Soldier

the amount of viktor going off to Russia

and weird recording some people hanging

out under the 405 and just ridiculous

amounts all this weird source material

and cuz I was a control freak

each time a sound sort of evolved as I

need to know how we got here in case I

want to go back it's like one evolution

and Dom did that crazy singing thing

that became the Winter Soldier voice and

they went through so a bit like 12 years

of the history of drum and bass whilst

like it's been going in and out of

everyone's AK eyes it was spinning

around us all messing with it and there

reached a point about I don't know okay

well what that one I really like it how

did you know what just let go yeah I

don't even know how we got here I think

this one might have been the one that I

stretched and then Victor put in a bit

have you still got the chain of yes

growing yes just print it bounce it and

we'll just call it and then what you

know and you just end up with a sort of

family of printed sounds as because

funny I mean there is the technology

where you could potentially trying to

unwind everything burn what I love about

that sort of sound design aspect at a

certain point you do just go record it

that's right point it I got this

terrible habit I'm now thinking of it as

a terrible habit because of you that I

don't ever go through my presets or my

sense you know I have a sound in my head

and I have to create it from scratch and

the other day Dave actually made me go

through all these presets because we

were trying to like find and put a

pallet together sir okay oh wow I forgot

about oh this is pretty clear and I'd

actually made

just put them into this folder here you

know I'll take the with three and you

know what I did

I actually went made myself a folder of

those presets and because some of them

never were never used

I just you know they weren't appropriate

for that project but you know but good

because I hope that thing about I'm not

you know know what happens this I have a

sound in my head and if I play a preset

it blunts the memory of that sound and

then the next preset so by the time gone

through five presets you can remember

what you're trying to do right but this

was actually I didn't know what I was

going to do yet so it was actually quite

an interesting stage of the writing

process of going through those old

presets and all that that's really

interesting if I think about this in a

different way this could have come in

really handy no there were no

Bladerunner well don't worry

you know I mean that you know that was a

very pure project it's funny that you

were talking about like pushing the

orchestra on that because the synths

that you used are so part of the sonic

character and I couldn't imagine it any

other way

well I kept thinking about it like this

we're not gonna we're not gonna copy the

Vangelis go we're not gonna do that but

Vangelis had an orchestra in my brain

right and that was C SAT that was this

Orchestra right so why don't we go and

use the same Orchestra and just do

different things alright and express

ourselves differently yeah but just like

say well I wanna go and record an air

with these players there was the same

thing let's drag the C SAT and which the

last time I had used was a dark night at

air you know that poor thing and been

shipped over here put into storage

nobody and it was like some weird

miracle that I persuaded people to

actually drag it in here and

worked it was kind of amazing it was

almost like oh I know what to do here

yes it was that kind of came alive and

it lasted exactly five weeks and then it

died scored yeah but - maybe like one or

two notes right and it it literally died

and it was like okay well what that

means but done that's it yeah but there

was some funny moments actually where it

was like on the cusp of about to give it

up and it sounds making these very

strange sounds those trying play these

soaring melodies and it was all very

epic and exciting and then it would go

what's that that was really interesting

and then suddenly that turns into this

crazy motorcycle sound which and it's

it's it was a fascinating thing where

you know in the same way that with with

instruments with an orchestra with with

musicians you kind of you know you're

creating some sort of emotion but with

these machines if you don't have the

same attitude if it's something that is

analog and something which is tender at

all and so the cameras will record that

actually does think my other third or

fourth I've just been very discreet but

also recreating that with the zebras was

whispers fascinating because then you

know something that is so advanced and

so digital but the whole objective was

to make it sound like it was

temperamental and analog and strange and

alive I mean I remember trying to delve

into some of those patches you created

and I had absolutely no idea what was

going yeah I'm glad that they're still

things that I can do that puzzle you

know but I mean hang on a second because

I'm the oldest one in the room by a long

shot you all started off with the

sampling existing alright I think so

yeah I mean I did definitely

I'm from the Stone Age I was 14 and it

was an 8-bit Amiga great computer that

was not great so I suppose no I was

playing a lot of music before this

little cheese wedge shaped piece of [ __ ]

with a little thing coming around the

back going up an Amiga which in all

honesty I think I could redo to point

five-second burst but they were always

distorted right yes yes we'll have that

first ever sampler manboobs 1995's 760

with four megabytes of RAM and it was a

birthday present

and that was that was the rig was that a

MIDI keyboard a tape machine and a

sequencer think on some tiny Mac and

there and then a quad reverb which went

directly into the tape machine and it

was just that four megabytes was the

entire 16 MIDI tracks and something kind

of I still have missed that I'm

reinterpreting what he's saying it was a

birthday present so he did have like the

naughty uncle that was trying to lead

him astray into music you know I mean

you know my birthday presents would be

books on accountancy anything other than

become deteriorate anyway you are you

were encouraged to be employee

encouraged to be a musician I mean you

know yeah for sure

definitely I mean I had I was playing

more guitar than anything in the

beginning but I had a I had a keyboard

that had a 16 track step sequencer in it

that I would just one note by one like I

couldn't yeah you know I didn't know how

to play it and so I would program it in

and yeah I mean ah yeah I pro and you

worked how you were close at guitar do

you still close at guitar

yeah that's accurate what the secret man

here well I don't know but but what you

encouraged to become a musician this is

- not entirely no I mean I I wasn't

discouraged either it was it was kind of

like accountants is a Avenue you should

look at but was there any history of it

in your family

no okay that's pretty bright then yes

but yeah well you did college to be

country sister no cautiously my my dad

was an engineer is an engineer and my

mother's a literature teacher which I

think somehow makes sense to what we do

I don't know more than Pig father yeah

yeah but no no no musicians in the

family it was it was but it was

cautiously encouraged oh when you say

engineer I interpret that to mean

recording engineer you mean engineer no

I mean yeah yeah fire sprinkler engineer

which I almost went into the family

business

learned how to map fire sprinkler

systems I was terrible at it it might be

a good thing that you might have

inadvertently killed people but your

parents not I mean your parents I mean

any of your pets well you're not

terrified that you were going to go and

staff to death and live the life of her

I was I was told to study something else

first and have a real job and because

you ended up with that great guitar

teacher that hater so wanted to work

with right this this III know that the

the guy that hate have fought heroes

like swam from Brazil to work with you

just got it no but I just turned it

around and I said I want to let me try

it music first and then I'll maybe learn

something yeah don't start with the

coming yeah exactly

my dad had no he's gay doesn't matter

what they add the photos I had

photographic my dad had a number one hit

in Spain called the

our pot man hey so I had the photos of

dad circa like nineteen him and Chris

choir with seriously psychedelic shirts

and you know yeah

looking a little the worse for wear so

any any complaints about getting

involved in the record in Cydia would

just result in well the funny thing is

this I I knew

Henry stared and I had worked for Henry

stirred but I didn't know Henry oh yeah

and Bob Arum II came in one day with a

he said with a track and he said oh you

should listen to this and it was your

library album that you're done in your

bedroom yeah my secret it was supposed a

library was a bit of a subterfuge it was

not a library yeah I mean I spent two

and a half years on it and I just I just

thought it was absolutely amazing

I remember because I thought you you you

really need your way around the

orchestra and you basically said to me

no I'm not interested in oh yeah well

only do drum and bass I've got so much

to thank but I had two really weird

inverted but because I'd gone to all

these poor schools and was like you know

suppose get of high school and die

eating an Oxford and blah blah blah I'd

gone the other way and say look I don't

want anyone to know that I can go to a

piano and play you know how to classical

repertoire and whatnot and I've got so

much to thank hands for because he's

right because I started doing the sound

decide and whatnot and then you well

know you know get involved in the

orchestra and I was served yeah whatever

you know I'm saying enhance that alright

so you're just like a drum and bass guy

right so you could you you only know

about beats and so I said Wow no I said

alright well then let's of sitting you

down and saying well actually what's

what's actually and romina someone I

actually owe the the largest apology to

but it's my favorite story it's my

favorite story because I had basically

ignored you being here you made coffee

you made coffee and I thought I never

I'll see a few more interested in music

or if you played a musical and sorum or

anything and we were stuck on pirates

and you've in your typical polite way

said do you mind if when everybody's

gone home can I get on to your rig and

just try to solve the scene that nobody

could solve and the way I remember it

it's like yeah we all went home and the

next morning we came in and we prayed so

every cue that got rejected and then

when there was I in desperation somebody

said oh yeah I mean you weren't gonna

try something and it was the first sword

fight in the movie and you played the

thing back that I had worked on so hard

and couldn't solve etc and we all went

that's perfect

and it's I think it's the only time on

on any movie or whatever I ever saw a

queue just you know it was just

everybody was going yeah of course

that is it perfect and I do remember

what I said to you that I remember I

said you will never make me another yeah

but it was like I mean it really it

really was you know because you you you

were using the same material the same

tunes everything everybody had access to

written at five o'clock in the morning

in my cowshed or something

I couldn't nobody could make it working

you just took the same material and you

just and I it wasn't even about the

musicianship so much I knew story since

like there's a [ __ ] film composer

sitting right there making coffee what a

waste of time this guy this guy no son

because what you what you did was you

made Gore's movie look as if it had been

as if it had been shot to that music as

if the scene had always been designed to

that piece of music you made you made

her scene better

you made go look better yeah you know

make me another cup of coffee everything

your coffee wasn't that good exactly I

was a bit of miss casting that play

Jacob I always had high hopes but he's

disappointed me so far but I'm sorry

well yeah I've got you think I just

think I just think the history is

interesting the history of like I mean

you you know you all had balls of steel

to not become doctors and accountants

and whatever and and actually no you

were the funniest one tutor do you know

how you know my bed story mm-hmm here my

pen sorry I'm in my flat in London and

I'm watching this movie that shall

remain nameless and I detested it I was

- testing every second of the story

because I thought was pretentious and

awful but I loved the music totally

loved music so I watched the whole thing

through and gets the end and it says

Benjamin Ball fish oh not said so and I

was so driven by this that I looked I

looked him up on the internet and I

thought I found his email at or so I

sent him like some stupid email trick

hey I just watched your movie I just

really liked the music and then weeks or

whatever go by never hear from him right

and richard harvey pops by and I don't

know we're talking about something he

says I'm having lunch with Benjamin

Bathurst tomorrow okay

yeah I wrote him this email thing I

really loved his music but he ever

answered me

well I suppose what do you answer do you

hear somebody says I love your music he

go what yeah well thank you or whatever

and Melissa from that lunch I got back

to my flat and there was an email there

saying dear mr. Zimmer you probably mean

the composer Benjamin ball fish I'm the

lawyer bench

never yeah and you know hey you should

see hands he quite likes you and then

you send me the email and I was like wow

that's quite a story

yeah but if the coincidence of literally

after all those weeks getting that email

for a and and what what a sweet man I

don't know how I don't know how common

it's not presumably it's not an enormous

Lee common day right so that's what I

thought I guess not but yeah there is

some he's kind of my age too yeah he's a

medical orientation oh and if he thought

you don't MIT moment if you sort of went

to Penn said well maybe I could serious

composers on to me so I'm together a

little something on the gallows if he's

into I remember and then and then we I

think we met at air came to Sherlock

session where you had actually

ironically about a hundred cellos in the

room doing some crazy stuff and me crazy

stuff and a bad Joe yeah you gotta be

versatile yeah I don't look it's great

you know it's like destroying pianos

banjos accordions something new you know

and then the studio sitting there going

this is our big Christmas release

accordions there yeah it's like and bad

just it's like no and I did that thing

we put it in front of an audience and

the audience really got it you know and

and you have and that's why you know

that's why the samples do save you in a

funny way because he can go and mock

something up and put it in front of an

audience and you don't have to speak

because music is indefensible mm-hmm

I can't talk the most brilliant producer

I can't talk them into loving the piece

of music let me explain why your

reaction of not liking this is wrong

and once I finish this sentence it

doesn't but you know it's not just that

audiences I mean who knows what

directors were like in the 40s and 50s

and whatnot but I remember having this

arguing Matthew Bourne II so I'll just

bang it though because we're running out

times just like a few ideas and one I'll

just bang out on the piano I'll get it I

said Matthew and I've been rude but

because it's a bit of an Adagio him

here's my prediction I'll bang it out on

the piano just play it and just like

send it to me on the iPhone so here's

what here's my prediction you're gonna

go it sounds a bit like guy playing the

piano so no I won't do that like I've

never done so why don't you can you just

be patient like six hours literally just

sit and then also do this I don't know I

just do it just gonna rock it fine so

senator is that just you on the piano he

loves music

he's it really but my point being I'm

not taking the piss out Matthew I mean

there is a big difference yeah if you've

got some of those so and you program and

even if you've only got a few hours the

difference seen that going and and just

the nature of this is you know the decay

of a piano and whatnot there's no

because you're gonna get yeah it's so

I'm missing the bigness and the Cystic

what because it's someone planning

camera and so it really does help

director however much to exercise god I

promise you I've got so much imagination

let me fill in all the holes yeah but

that that's why I keep thinking you know

that there's the disconnect with

musicians it's just as great where

they're going oh I just need to get a

string library right well they're all

sound different because they're all

in its individual musicians with their

individual instruments making a sound

that I happen to like all right as or

might work for this project yeah it may

be not that way yeah no no it's like we

had to spend I heard the thing which

were so not Ben's fault I was in London

I'd written a thing and asked him to

record it with a violinist and you

picked the wrong bylaw yes for yes

casting really good violinist and I

heard this piece I went oh my god it's

this is a disaster the notes are wrong

everything is wrong it's and then I went

hang on do you not you know do you know

any other players and you bet your

friend pen pal

right who was on the road he was

literally in his car with his iPhone

recording this thing with yes no I don't

know that it came back to me it was the

same notes but it was yeah I was I

wasn't insane but if it's a you know the

performance the players of the

instrument and so it doesn't matter it

was recorded on an iPhone or nah it was

a diamond yeah you 67 assist all that

stuff it's it's you know cast your

players yeah yeah and that that makes

the whole difference no so this is this

business of temp as well I mean the

ideal of maybe we can work without temp

there was the you know had that

experience with that move the cure for

wellness with gore where was this idea

of no temp but that means you have to be

in my cutting rooms for eight months

whilst we cut and generate temp as we go

I don't feel so bad for you because that

was a film school

it totally was it was it was actually

the most extraordinary experience that

but just in terms of without actually

having samples which were performances

that whole process would have been

impossible because there was so many

times where they were you know we talked

and talked about concepts and that story

but without I should be able to show it

and and examine it with sound it was you

know all the words did you did you play

I mean when you when you because he had

your deadlines are pretty insane right

sometimes yeah sometimes yeah do you do

what Henry doesn't plan on the piano and

hope for the best don't you know

sometimes I played myself and sort of

fix it in a computer and at least try to

make it sound like what it could be like

it's yeah I don't try the piano no

actually I remember working on this one

she just forever on the piano I mean

literally I think two weeks I was a

simple and I remember floating up

Krishna and saying hey I think I got an

idea

can I just play it to you over the phone

and playing it and him going oh that's

really great and then a couple of months

later he said whatever happened to that

tune you played me over the phone

I never recorded it because it was

enough to play it over the phone and go

I'm going yeah that's do you know okay

yeah I've done that now now I need to go

deal with all the other stuff and I had

to actually sort of dig around in my

brain and find it

do you sing into your iPhone no case and

they use encounter to iPhone rhythms

I'll do here into the phone and

occasionally I do it all the time yeah

yeah it's always as if I wish my words

dude when you're driving it's like the

most dangerous thing in the world and

then there's always a bit if you're not

concentrating so you hit the stop part

then the wind dog comes up and then

there's like delete to get rid of the

meaningless default new recording

somewhere in there you can go oh I think

I just oh oh [ __ ] now what was oh yes

yes and then I'm randomly you know

everyone go so you can undo anything on

that for as long as you shakers because

that's what happens to me that's why not

do it anymore I start listening back to

it and like I hear my oh yeah so no I

don't do that well but I'm not trying to

do one upmanship here and Cubase vs.

logic but I've given that stupid

something in Cubase it doesn't need to

be the retros yes

that's saved me so many times you can it

depends on can you do exactly that logic

is no yeah that's quite good I tell you

what you get in logic if the thing has

been sitting there for a long time you

get 63 notes good it's a sort of a piece

which should it be suitably unpacked and

figured out then better you'd be better

off just dying yeah for this guy's I use

logic when it was still Sealab in the

90s yes rotator and I just remembered

this sort of resize how many tracks it

was but it was vertical yeah but then

there was this weird journey for me

towards Cubase via digital performer

because the deep you had this thing

where you could flexibly record with no

click and then add click later which I

had no idea how to do logic I know

there's a way yeah but I see that's the

only reason that's why I'm worried about

the Cubase I do that all the time I

don't go edit click it's run play in and

then it has to follow the performance

but if there's somehow they've nailed

that oh and the most insane a simple

idea that you were

verse polarity instead of the thing that

static of the barlines thing the celica

the other notes and the violence you can

move and and unlike this before me I'm

geeking out please do and that's that

I'm in but it is quite because I do a

zero click track that's all and then you

somehow gotta figure out it's it's

horrible either how to actually show an

orchestra where this frame is but yeah

Cubase somehow I don't know it's funny I

started on the bass and then travel and

show them what's that yeah it moves that

that's gone right whatever that was

that's gone and here's the rig right

right so that's you know I got Trevor to

thank for that well and they asked

Trevor because Trevor didn't know I

would I would insist that we would

record to click right you know and he

asked him you know he would go why am i

recording to this you know going to

click as your everything will be and you

know whatever we do later on we can find

our way back the clicker sir especially

if you've got like a disparate thing

that with collaborations going what know

if you don't have a click it's a bit

like ooh we've loved our religion right

there's no god but he was a record guy

these are tastes you you wouldn't even

know about you're much too young because

I remember working with Java in the 90s

and him saying I could I remember him

being on the phone what do you mean

where's that stuff in the Swedish guys

mm-hm

why isn't it on to what do you mean no

click yeah I believe in the click but

you know the click is your friend

see we can we can we can go make

anything work if we as long as you know

it's the common it's the common link to

us all in a funny that way yeah yeah

yeah don't even that timestamp thing you

know it's like there's no interpretive

way of going with clicks you know it's

either in or it's out you know you're in

time or you're not in time it's true but

there is something strangely romantic

and nice when orchestra naturally gets

what you're trying to say like with a

line like the sort of the horizontal

idea and it's sort of drifts but it's

telling a story and then in retrospect

you then move it backwards so it does

line up no it's something it's a kind of

weird thing where I don't know I've

never actually understood how musicians

pull that off where they can play

musically with one ear covered so they

can't really hear the tuning and this is

hitting your eardrum yeah but they're

still playing expressively and it's kind

of amazing it's I've always you know

it's definitely yeah are you sure you

don't that's the other thing mr. soft

with samples any sample you have it what

you're doing this at that when you buy a

new sample you have to learn it it's

because the attack on strength of

strings it's going to be slow and you

know if you play you really actually

what look at it you are going to be

behind and then you figure out you

instinctively figure out what that

latency is and you you start to be in

time so embarrassing I don't know if you

guys from this but whenever I play

something into a sequencer no matter

what it's always a little bit ahead in

other words if it were lay you'd be

twice as cool that's of my TT score

early reader

you wanna be about 60 milliseconds off

it and then right you've reached a Jedi

level of which I'm certainly not a tire

dhalsim here I'm always ahead of the

beat it's that muscle memory of okay I

know I have to shift this this way

before by quantizing earth but then you

sit in a room with a drummer or a bass

player and they're absolutely there

others just forget about it it's

something obey often base is a little

bit lazy in a really nice way and it's

always a bit disappointing people

quantize it and move it back in oh no

that was what was making it sound

slightly cooler than air just that's why

you you know that's why you cast your

music

yes exactly for their feel yeah you know

and very often and this is I I want to

see if you guys disagree I think it's

about volume as well

cool people don't play loud no they

don't sound like they're trying they're

gone they don't go ping they play

quietly and there's a richness to the

cell that's tone you know absolutely and

you know if somebody told me this

recently that like the really big John

Williams bit some really exciting but he

never goes to I get double therefore

it's don't sound the best that's given

up Wow

well I guess dinner yeah ping yeah you

know so but it's it's people can make

huge volume mmm through intensity right

so true so intention exactly are the

intention translates into the instrument

and there's that thing that happens in

an orchestra where the intention is

fortissimo but everyone is maybe sort of

Forte but they're listening to each

other kind of take the togetherness

about that it's becomes a collective

thing where the oak should have become

one instrument and it rarely happens

when everyone is just going completely

nuts yeah and and it's just like okay

play as loud as you can because then it

just becomes this kind of aggressive

forced soundness of the fullness

you know he sort of envelops you and you

can't help but you know just be

overwhelmed when it when it isn't

necessarily everyone playing as that

especially to be totally geeky and

totally pretentious in Marla second

there's this one bar you know your

mulleted footnotes for every bar how are

you should perform it and it says notes

of the conductor you need to hold this

part or the orchestra has reached the

you know that the highest crescendo they

can possibly reach so carry on conducted

and the choir hasn't come in for another

20 minutes or so so this bar comes and

it gets louder and he has the choir

stand up they don't do anything that's a

good fish I remember my uncle telling me

he did a live recording and Nigel

Kennedy playing space-filling violin

concerto and he said it was the weirdest

thing cuz when they recorded it live the

balance between him and the rest the

Hulkster was absolutely perfect and then

it was one of those things where they

were doing a sort of live makes no

releasing on CD later and when they just

listened to it yeah monitoring us just

like to D be short

that's so weird cuz when we were

monitoring it and we had the T and it

said well you know why cuz he was seeing

on yes now you're not seeing him you're

missing and he said I'd be he said over

the years I've been a bit geeky and I

figured out it's about 2 and 1/2 DB

really you don't see the soloist that's

really good to know it's about two and a

half because because my big lesson is

that you know doing Orchestra chorus and

I'm looking at the orchestra and there's

passion in their faces and there's all

that stuff going on I think it's an

amazing take and three days later I'm

listening you pull it a really boring

yeah so now what I do is when we record

Orchestra I forced myself not to look at

them right you know didn't literally

have my head down and just listen yeah

I'm just to take but by that because I

mean even as a kid you know

my mom took me to see a fight blender

play and I remember him playing that

last note and holding a finger on the

note and I'm hearing it and then I'm

still hearing it and then he took my

finger off and the note disappeared and

then she buying you know I loved it and

she buying me the record and the last

note just goes plunk because right we

have the series very only Ramin will

understand this one we have a great

German expression just alga HeartMate

mm-hmm which is very hard to translate

but it basically means the the eye is a

participant in Venice right exactly

that is the pose at the point I move

you're missing the tongue quite that so

in fact was perfectly legit for the

clients to stand up I'm not actually

doing this absolutely actually just the

whole point about the stuff we do is we

are we're not prefer not giving you a

performance we're giving you a recording

is a very it's a very different thing it

is and so look you know this better than

anywhere you can see you're actually a

professional conductor you know and and

you know I see you like you know all

that stuff's going on and it looks

fantastic but I'm not always sure if it

actually sounds fun well thankfully

don't make any sound as a conductor but

no but but it it's actually the

interesting thing I mean I was very

lucky it's been most much when he's

doing that and the process of rehearsing

is almost kind of getting the the sort

of dental hygiene in place where you

know the basics are there so that then

you can perform and you almost don't

want to necessarily even discuss

dynamics and and you know you just

you're gonna do it and and you should

have leave this sort of 10% for when you

you're so involved in this in the score

and in what look about is trying to put

across that you you know that's this

amazing sort of back and forth an

exchange of energy between the conductor

and the orchestra where you galvanize

each other and when it's a really great

Orchestra they've played together all

the time you actually don't need to do

very much it's just it's a sort of you

sort of facility

this synchronicity so that they become

an you know a one instrument and then

you cannot get out of the way and let

them perform and occasionally energize

an occasional but there is this thing

where you know if I could compose like

Marla or Beethoven to wear this it was

about revolutionising the orchestra and

about doing something which never been

done before but it is you you're right

it can look very strange and it's

because most of the work is done in

rehearsal and it's about that's when the

discussions when the interpretation and

the philosophy takes place and then

there's that extra 10% where you take

the audience on that ride with you and

whenever I make a recording it's always

really important for me to don't try and

capture that sort of newness and

freshness so that it doesn't feel like

it's just something that's been

constructed no I mean we've been and I

had and Pharrell I knew we had this

experience with Herbie Hancock right oh

well yeah we thought a further but we

all thought it was a really good idea to

get Herbie Hancock in to come and play

the piano right so we've found Herbie

and we told him what it was about and

all the sudden we kind of really excited

and he said so when is this and we said

well tomorrow because you guys but no he

came and he made one stipulation that it

would be his piano you know okay so we

got his piano yes its Fazioli and then

been spend two hours three hours I don't

know how long going through all the

written notes be like off the whole

school he played all of it you know

everything is as written on the page and

then he said well okay now just do your

thing and so what he did was he prayed

far less than was written right hmm but

he knew it all and every note he played

was important and was meaningful yes

because what you're talking about

there's this preparation at hand you

know to really understand what the notes

why the notes were there what the piece

of music was about and then to have a

great musician know what you were trying

to say and say it in his way it was

because I I thought is he

me being an idiot I thought he was going

to play more and he did exactly opposite

that's right it was really everything

yeah and and every note he played was

touching and yeah it's Oh Priya

and it really brought like why he wanted

his instrument because he started

creating these voicings which was

actually quite simple very open voicings

but he knew that with this Fazioli there

was a resonance and they're kind of

there was a motion to be had from that

particular combination of sounds with

that particular piano and I was moved to

tears during the session wait we all

went yeah and I'm a pretty you know be

I'm pretty cynical it really was it was

like for me it was a lesson of why this

man is an artist as opposed to but you

know everybody can say he's a great

pianist sure but it went so beyond list

and hidden fingers was like that across

the board there were the orchestra -

there was all about intention and story

and there was no sort of musical

musician there yeah there was this

incredible it wasn't our idea was very

else idea he said you know well this

what movie really is about women and

African American women etcetera and just

like a Julie mentioned can't we have

more of those in the orchestra and if so

we saw a route to go and find all these

players that are don't normally play

session so when they started to play you

you know how you can disassociate

yourself from the from the notes and

actually just hear the sound you know

and I was listening to the sound and the

sound was crisper and more beautiful and

more purposeful and anything had ever

heard in my in an orchestra here you

know and it was exactly the same room

with the same mics and Alan you know it

was different it was absolutely

different it was and you know to search

it was extraordinary well there was

there was intention that went beyond

okay we have to pay these notes in time

they knew why they were play everybody

knew why they were playing those knows

they say about playing for themselves

yeah you know it was it was death that

music had become their music and and and

but but it did something to the actual

it I don't know it did something to the

instruments I don't know what I did but

it there's a clarity and a brightness

around a brittleness of brightness that

no EQ can give you that's true yeah yeah

it was really remarkable so yeah so yeah

cast your players right you know it's

it's that there's this reason for what

you know there's a reason for why you

want to go and record there with this

Orchestra or with these players whatever

you know it's not the strings they are

individuals and just you know the more

you can capture that way ahead another

thing that's I found experimenting with

is this idea of should you have all the

orchestra in the room at the same time

playing at the same time which hen's way

years ago well that's it but if you're

writing some insane brass writing for

example and the strings are doing some

scurrying stuff to support the buzz the

strings aren't going to be quite as

motivated if they're not being

obliterated but then you'll find stuff

yeah yeah I'm saying yeah it gives you

more control in the mix I think it

depends you know if you had done

whatever the string arrangements one

played run it you'll see you know you

don't even say that that but the I just

did Jumanji in a style that sort of

disappeared in the mid 90s that kind of

thing you you'd been saying not to do it

apart from that all the percussion

you've been saying on for tuning for

samples exactly because it's so old

school

it really is it's it's like the opposite

of what hands are saying about you know

half as sometimes you're doing things

which are deliberately going completely

outside and what a traditional orchestra

does the school like that it's doing

exactly what a symphony orchestra know

if you don't have them all in the room

per se like that you're asking for it's

an i trouble it's an answer in a way

that's not true you know when you're

putting the mighty jigsaw together for

something like Dark Knight well it's a

it's a different style yeah it's a

complete both styles

brilliant Liam yeah in the same way

you'd be insane to put them all in the

room for a dark night you know I mean

that would be not dreaming yeah

you've now can't build your perfect

jigsaw no Andy I mean I did on boss baby

you know Steve Basar and I got Conrad

pope in beautiful Orchestrator and I

said okay Conrad you're gonna have one

task I'm gonna give you the tiniest

amount of notes and I'm gonna give you

three months to go and make this

beautiful thing for the orchestra

there's going to be one cue were you

only responsible for one cue and it was

one of those which you know I wanted it

to have a sense of the old orchestra and

everybody playing together and literally

even the first you know the first

run-through with nobody wearing

headphones and just Conrad conducting

and well it was completely magical it

was completely that and you completely

understood why we had to have music in

the world two years it was one of those

sort of things you know and it was very

efficient very fast you know and and you

know look it wasn't just a treat working

with him as well you know it's like and

and he demoed it a lot by the way it was

oh it was all locked up before and it

didn't it didn't change the notes never

changed you know but when when they all

played it it's that thing he said with

the king you know everybody took that

breath and then exhale was extraordinary

yeah it also sounded but the brass easy

a bit less bright hmm because I mean

they're literally in the room it's like

wait way more people and it's that thing

of musicians inspiring each other yeah

there's so much you can do with a

pre-recorded in one in one ear

well depending again depending on the

style of what it is but but yeah I

suppose my question was do you think

it's possible to inspire musicians in

the same way as having everyone in the

room when they're not in the room

through pre-record have you ever do that

never no no I mean it says the jigsaw

thing works precisely because they don't

they don't necessarily need to know how

the city is being built ways if you have

if you have a more traditional symphonic

style you absolutely need to know how

city's being put and you're hearing it

right around well you see I have a

problem with with that theory which all

of you have purchased you make the

orchestra into one I don't think you do

that at all by having everybody in the

room I think what you do is you get to

sum total of every individuals

expression yes as opposed to doing what

I like doing depending on what you know

what the thing is where you say okay now

it's just the brass analogous the

ostinatos whatever you know this thing

we were talking about that is about

singularly my vision and I want

everybody to play the way I would play

it if I could play it so that's when it

becomes one and it's it's assertive

style you know and and it's it excludes

the it excludes the individuality of all

the players you know it's it's very

precise and then you know and then we go

and make it worse because we go in to

produce and we can go absolutely shift

the timing and lock it so that that

because it's the same as you playing it

on the piano as an individual you know

you just make the whole Orchestra into

your fingers all right

it's the authoritarian very CEO sorry -

yeah absolutely

it's the dictator so you're allowed to

play but you must have thoughts of your

own feelings that works so precisely you

know I mean you know I mean Ramin

correct me if I'm wrong because you were

there I mean what we were trying to do

in a funny way we were trying to

create a dystopian cold world that was

very very different from from from you

know the Jolly emotional worlds that you

know you know it was it was quite the

opposite you know