Protein & Creatine for Women: JJ Virgin Reveals Muscle Gain Myths & Science
Summary
TLDRIn this informative discussion, JJ Virgin emphasizes the importance of creatine for women's health, debunking myths about hair loss and muscle growth. She advocates for a balanced diet, strength training, and sufficient protein intake for optimal body composition and longevity. The conversation also touches on the benefits of resistance training for muscle and bone health, the role of hormones in women's health, and the significance of biomarkers for tracking health. JJ shares her personal health journey, including the impact of travel and diet on fitness, and offers practical advice for maintaining high energy levels and a youthful appearance.
Takeaways
- 💪 The importance of creatine for women is emphasized, as it benefits not only muscle and bone health but also brain function.
- 🍽 Women often do not consume enough creatine-rich foods, which can lead to lower tissue stores of creatine.
- 🧠 Creatine helps with cognitive functions such as word recall and verbal acuity, especially under conditions of sleep deprivation.
- 💆♀️ Postmenopausal women on antidepressants who also use creatine experience better effects than those not taking creatine.
- 🏋️♀️ Women typically do not need to worry about building too much muscle from resistance training; it actually helps in maintaining a lean and fit physique.
- 🥩 The benefits of red meat consumption are discussed, highlighting the polyphenols and nutrients it contains beyond just protein and iron.
- 🥦 The conversation stresses the importance of whole, real foods over calorie counting or following fad diets.
- 🚶♀️ Walking is highlighted as a foundational form of exercise, with a recommendation to aim for at least 10,000 steps per day.
- 🏞️ Spending time in nature and getting sunlight are suggested for overall health benefits, including improved mood and cognitive function.
- 🧘♀️ The discussion touches on various biohacks like infrared saunas and cold plunges for recovery and their potential effects on hormone receptor sensitivity.
Q & A
What is the main reason suggested for women to take creatine?
-Creatine is recommended for women due to typically having less tissue stores and not getting as much creatine-rich food in their diet compared to men. It is beneficial for muscle performance, bone health, and brain function.
How can creatine help with jet lag according to the transcript?
-Creatine can help with jet lag by providing an increase in energy and cognitive function. It was found to be effective when taken in higher doses during travel across time zones, helping to mitigate the effects of sleep deprivation.
What are the common myths about creatine mentioned in the transcript?
-The common myths about creatine mentioned are that it can cause hair loss and lead to an increase in muscle size, making one look unsightly or 'manly', especially in women.
What is the suggested minimum effective dose of creatine for women?
-The suggested minimum effective dose of creatine for women is five grams a day, especially if they are not eating regularly from creatine-rich food sources.
How does the transcript suggest women can counteract the common misconception that muscle gain from resistance training leads to a masculine appearance?
-The transcript suggests that the misconception about muscle gain leading to a masculine appearance can be countered by focusing on the benefits of being strong and fit, rather than just being skinny. It also mentions that women typically do not gain excessive muscle from resistance training.
What role does protein play in the diet according to the discussion?
-Protein plays a crucial role in the diet by supporting muscle growth and repair, aiding in body composition, and contributing to overall health and longevity. It's especially important for women to consume adequate protein to maintain and build muscle mass.
What are the benefits of walking mentioned in the transcript?
-Walking is highlighted as an essential part of a fitness routine with benefits including increasing steps for overall activity, aiding digestion post-meal, and serving as a good starting point for those new to exercise. It also helps in maintaining a healthy body composition and improving heart health.
What is the significance of the red light face mask mentioned in the transcript?
-The red light face mask is significant as it is promoted as a tool for achieving younger-looking skin by reducing fine wrinkles and lines, evening out skin tone, and restoring a youthful glow.
How does the transcript address the issue of hormone health in women?
-The transcript addresses hormone health in women by emphasizing the importance of understanding one's own body, working with a functional medicine doctor, and considering various hormone supplementation options such as oral progesterone, patches for estrogen, and shots of testosterone.
What is the importance of tracking calories mentioned in the transcript?
-Tracking calories is important as it increases awareness of what and how much one is eating, which can lead to shifts in dietary habits and better weight management. It helps in holding oneself accountable and can lead to more mindful eating.
What is the view on biohacking expressed in the transcript?
-The view on biohacking expressed in the transcript is that while it can be beneficial, it should not replace the foundational aspects of health such as proper diet, exercise, and sleep. Biohacking is seen as a way to take improvements further once the basics are well managed.
Outlines
💪 The Importance of Creatine for Women's Health
The paragraph emphasizes the significance of creatine for women, highlighting its role beyond muscle performance and bone health, extending to brain function. It points out that women typically have lower creatine stores and may not consume enough creatine-rich foods. The speaker debunks myths about creatine use, such as hair loss, and insists on its benefits for managing sleep deprivation and enhancing the effects of antidepressants in postmenopausal women. The paragraph also touches on the typical female diet, suggesting it often lacks the necessary nutrients, including creatine.
🏋️♀️ Prioritizing Power Training for Aging Gracefully
This section discusses the importance of power training, especially as one ages. The speaker shares a personal journey of focusing on building muscle and power to maintain physical capabilities. There's an emphasis on the need to mimic daily life activities in the gym to prevent injuries during normal life. The paragraph also addresses the common misconception that power training leads to a higher risk of injury, advocating for a gradual approach to resistance training that starts with compound movements and progresses to include instability training.
🏃♀️ Incorporating Full-Body Workouts and Traveling with Fitness in Mind
The speaker talks about their exercise routine, focusing on full-body workouts and high-intensity training (HIT). They discuss the flexibility of their routine to accommodate travel and changing circumstances, emphasizing the importance of staying active. The paragraph also touches on the use of TRX suspension trainers and the idea of integrating exercise into daily life, even while on vacation. There's a clear message about the benefits of staying physically active, regardless of one's location or situation.
🤸♀️ Addressing Misconceptions about Strength Training and Muscle Growth in Women
This section debunks common myths about women gaining excessive muscle mass from strength training. The speaker explains the differences between muscle size, strength, and power, and why women typically do not experience significant muscle growth from resistance training. There's also a discussion about the body's composition and the importance of tracking calories and macronutrients for a better understanding of one's dietary needs and physical changes.
🥩 The Nutritional Value of Red Meat and Creatine for Women
The paragraph focuses on the nutritional benefits of red meat, particularly the polyphenols it contains. It also revisits the topic of creatine, emphasizing its cognitive benefits and its role in combating jet lag. The speaker shares personal experiences with creatine, suggesting that it can provide a significant energy boost and help with recovery after sleep deprivation.
🚶♀️ Walking as a Foundational Exercise and the Importance of Outdoor Activity
The speaker advocates for walking as a fundamental part of a fitness routine, setting a personal benchmark of 10,000 steps per day. They discuss the benefits of walking, especially outdoors, and how it connects with nature, potentially offering additional health benefits. The paragraph also touches on the idea of 'forest bathing' and the positive impact of spending time in nature on physical and mental health.
🌡️ The Role of Thermal Stress and Saunas in Recovery and Hormone Optimization
This section delves into the use of thermal stress, specifically saunas and cold plunges, for recovery and overall health. The speaker shares their personal routine, which includes using a sauna and cold plunge, and discusses the potential benefits of these practices on hormone levels and overall well-being. There's also mention of the importance of optimizing hormone levels, especially for women, and the various methods available for hormone supplementation.
💊 A Holistic Approach to Health and the Role of Supplements
The paragraph discusses a holistic approach to health, emphasizing the importance of foundational practices like proper diet, exercise, and sleep before considering supplements. The speaker shares their personal experiences with various supplements, including creatine, carnitine, and others, and expresses a more cautious stance on the excessive use of supplements, advocating for a focus on the basics first.
🏃♀️ Sprinting and the Importance of High-Intensity Interval Training (HIIT)
The speaker talks about their commitment to maintaining physical fitness, particularly through high-intensity interval training (HIIT) and sprinting. There's a reflection on the importance of challenging oneself physically and the desire to continue being active and fit into older age. The paragraph also touches on the idea of autophagy through exercise, suggesting that regular physical activity may be more effective for autophagy than fasting.
🌱 The Impact of Fermented Foods and Ginseng on Health and Hormones
In this section, the speaker discusses the health benefits of fermented foods and ginseng, sharing a personal anecdote about how ginseng may have improved their hormone receptor sensitivity. There's also a mention of the importance of consuming a diverse range of foods, especially fermented foods, for overall health. The paragraph highlights the potential of certain supplements to improve hormone balance and the significance of individualized approaches to health and wellness.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Creatine
💡Postmenopausal
💡Hormones
💡Protein
💡Sarcopenia
💡Resistant Training
💡Metabolic Rate
💡Inflammation
💡Adaptogens
💡Biohacking
💡Autophagy
Highlights
Creatine is beneficial for women's muscle and brain health.
Women typically have less tissue stores of creatine and should consider supplementation.
Creatine can help with sleep deprivation and cognitive performance.
Women might not be getting enough creatine-rich foods compared to men.
Creatine helps with muscle performance, bone health, and brain function.
Postmenopausal women on antidepressants benefit from creatine supplementation.
The typical female diet may lack sufficient nutrients for optimal health.
Importance of tracking calorie intake for weight management and awareness.
Protein intake should be at least one gram per pound of body weight for optimal health.
The benefits of full-body workouts versus split routines for body composition and fat loss.
The significance of power training and how to structure it into a fitness program.
JJ Virgin's fitness inspiration and the importance of maintaining a high level of health and fitness.
The impact of aging on muscle hypertrophy and the adaptability of exercise.
How to maintain strength and muscle as we age, with a focus on power training.
The role of protein in muscle recovery and growth, especially for women.
The benefits of resistance training for women and dispelling the myth of getting too bulky.
The importance of full-body exercises and functional training for daily life activities.
The significance of walking and incorporating steps into daily routine for overall health.
The impact of travel and jet lag on exercise and health, and how creatine can help.
The role of hormones in women's health and the benefits of hormone replacement therapy.
The importance of early intervention with hormones in women's health.
The significance of tracking and optimizing personal health metrics like body composition.
Transcripts
every woman should be on Creatine in my
opinion because if you look at it we
have less tissue stores and you know we
store the majority of creatine our
muscle but it's a small percent goes to
our brain and it's amazing and so that's
why when you look at using it Beyond
just for muscle
performance it's and bone health Etc if
you want it for your brain you got to
push it a little bit more too and women
Tech typically are not getting uh
creatine rich foods as much as men are
as well so there is zero on that hair
loss thing like all these crazy myths
that just won't go away I think if we
get ourselves to a nice Baseline of
creatine that we should always be on and
then push it use it for hard workouts
for sleep deprivation because you want
to make sure you have what you need in
your brain but I mean then there's the
the postmenopausal study that showed
that women on anti-depressants who use
creatine had way better effects than
women who weren't if you're a woman and
you're eating the typical female diet of
you know like the yogurt with the fruit
on top and the muffins and the that
stuff you're not getting
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below so let's cut back to it with JJ JJ
it's great to be with you as I said on
your show I've been listening to your
work for a very long time back in 2007 I
used to I wanted to be a pro cyclist and
I would listen to the teleconferences
that you would offer the teleconferences
those were so fun I learned a lot oh
those were the days so what inspires you
to stay physically fit I mean you're a
rarity in this world uh when you travel
you take your supplements you're working
on optimizing your Circ and rhythm in
new time zones taking creatine which I
would love to dive into but um what
inspires you to maintain this high level
of health and
fitness why wouldn't you want to like I
can't imagine now I've literally been
working out since I was a little kid I
bet you have too right I mean I just
don't know anything else but I will tell
you I am more fired up about it now than
I've ever been like I think it's a great
time to be in the nutrition and fitness
space and I think people are starting to
wake up to a whole different reality and
a whole different Paradigm of what 50
plus can look like like I think of what
my mother looked like at 50 plus and we
don't have to go there and she was she's
been she was healthy she lived to 93 um
but you know you start to see all of
those things on Instagram of of like
that woman who started swimming at 67
who's winning medals at 99 and like you
know the grandma doing gymnastics and
like sign me up I am literally pushing
myself harder now than I think I have
for years that's awesome I mean if you
look at the research on adaptation to
exercise and muscle hypertrophy I think
the perception is once you get over 40
or 50 there's no way that you can build
muscle or adapt but the research really
does show that we can continue to build
muscle and uh change our our physique
and physiology so since you've been
working out for so long what aspects are
you noticing that are improving are you
still maintaining strength and getting
stronger
um do you focus more on balance like how
does your fitness program what does it
look like so I never really thought a
whole lot about it I've always exercised
and and then about um three or four
years ago I noticed I was trying to open
a jar and I handed it couldn't open it
so I handed it to my husband didn't
think anything of it then it happened
again then this light bulb moment went
off of like wait a minute grip strength
what's going on I'm the the jar opener
and that's when I started to really
re-evaluate what I was doing cuz I had
gotten into a r and I think this is very
easy to do when you've been doing this
for a long time where I will happily go
to the gym and lift weights all day long
every day and you know I wasn't doing as
much power workouts as I used to like
hit training I hadn't sprinted for years
I know there was that Meme going around
the internet about how after the age of
30 like 5% of the population will ever
Sprint again there's no science to back
it up but it's I I was one of those and
so I started to really look at what
would happen because I think it's like
what could happen as you age if you are
not aware of it and working against it
and so I went and all right I want to
try to pack on as much musles possible
I've always been muscular I've always
had low body fat but I want to take it
to the next level so that if I do start
to lose it at 70 or 80 I've I've got way
more to lose you know it's it's like
setting up your investment account so I
knew that but I also knew that I had to
start really pushing power because
that's where I noticed the biggest
deficit and if you look at the
statistics that is your biggest deficit
you'll lose your muscle size you'll lose
twice as much strength but you'll lose
three times the power and so that's
where I started to put a lot of the
focus love that so prioritizing power I
think that can be intimidating for
people because they associate power with
higher risk exercises and more uh
propensity to get injured so how how do
you structure that are you doing
deadlift squats are you doing more um
band work like what does that look like
practically so I think that we have to
kind of back it up to that statement
because that statement is where I think
a lot of people get in trouble they have
this idea that they're going to go to
the gym and get injured the reality is
you're not going to the gym to get
better at going to the gym you're going
to the gym to do the things you would do
in normal life so that you don't get
injured in normal life and in normal
life you've got to catch yourself
right you've got to pick up something
heavy like we when we went on the boat
trip I was telling you about we had
these huge duffel bags I was like
Farmers carry you know I've literally
started to look at traveling as travel
CrossFit where we're hauling these huge
suitcases and lugging them up on beds
and and I don't want to get injured
doing that which means that I've got to
train for that in the gym and so again
this idea of I'll do those things and
get injured no if you don't do those
things the likelihood is that you're
going to get injured and so when I go to
the gym I try to
mimic activities of daily living as much
as possible so I think we need to work
compound movements that would be you
know pushing and moving across several
joints as opposed to say just doing a
tricep extension right moving across a
single joint I think we have to put in
instability as much as possible and but
that doesn't mean we start there if
someone's brand new to resistance
training I wouldn't go hey let's let's
do some throwing exercises while
balancing on a bosou ball with with one
leg that would be ridiculous um but I
think that's what we want to move into
so that when we are presented with
situations in life where we have to
catch something or catch oursel we don't
hurt ourselves I love that and speaking
of travel this I love to people watch
when I'm in public and on airplanes I
have noticed a lot of individuals can't
even comfortably pull their suit
suitcase out of the overhead compartment
there's a lot of and I often times help
people you know sometimes but that's a
really good proxy for just whole body
strength and balance and and so forth um
when you're doing these multi-joint
movements are you uh let's say you were
to do upper body um and you were to do
maybe um chest shoulders tricep and you
know doing presses and and things like
that do you allow your upper body to
rest and then do legs the next day and
how does this look in terms of the
structure of your uh day-to-day 3 to
four days or five days a week of
exercise it always depends on where I am
and what's going on
so I'm looking I just read some research
that was looking at doing a full body
workout versus doing a split in terms of
what it would do for body composition
and fat loss and and the full body one
and I'm thinking what I really need to
move into next I think it all comes down
to your priorities right now my priority
is not building muscle it's focused on
more V2 Max and um hit training and I'll
avoid that so what I'm working on moving
into now is more full body one day and
then hit the next or doing maybe upper
with hit one day and then legs the next
so it it really depends I'll look across
a couple days especially since I travel
so much and think what is available to
me like the last couple days I was on a
boat well one day I was on a boat we
weren't getting off the boat I'm like
okay now what well I brought a TRX as a
gift right figured out a place to put
that and I literally was at the front of
the boat doing up downs you know Burpee
squat jumps they're like you okay but I
had to do something
and wasn't going to get it just sitting
on the boat right that's amazing and the
thing about the TRX Raven resistance
bins is they're so small I mean you can
put these in your suitcase you can do
these anywhere I love that and it's just
thinking ahead you know and planning a
little bit and then getting back into
your boutine after uh a vacation is so
much easier if you've been doing a
little bit of something just to send the
stimulus to the muscles right and it's
different so I look at it and go I
always travel with the TRX if I'm going
to be in places where I'm sure of the
situation like that's the Saving Grace
but so's your body so you look at and go
you can do a great hit workout with your
body right totally so I think the bigger
question is okay how am I going to pull
this off what am I going to do there's
always a way to do it and of course when
you're traveling you're getting in a lot
more steps I wish I could figure out how
to get a wrecking vest with suitcase
weight I haven't figured that one out
keep thinking we need to make a water
vest of some sort but that would be
really Co cuz otherwise you have these
little lead or steel P they kind of
throw your weight over I pack my CU on I
was laughing when you said that about
the um the carryon into the overhead
being a proxy for strength it's it's
like the perfect like you know snatch up
there or clean and jerk but I put so
much in there because I travel with a
podcast Studio my lights I mean it it's
probably like 70 pounds yeah that we're
hoisting up into the overhead so it is
right and that's in you know there's a
stress aspect of it because you've been
sitting for a long long time then you
have to get up and there's people and so
it is a really good functional test you
know for like whole body strength and
resilience which I think is exciting um
I still see the comments from Mostly
women and the perception is if I focus
on Power and strength I'm going to
develop all this upper body musculature
and that's going to look unsightly or
manly um you've been exercising for a
very long time very feminine yet fit
what do you say to that argument and
what do you say to women when they
present that to you well and then they
say but just want to have arms like
yours I'm like well let me tell you what
I do to get these arms you you know it's
so interesting cuz when you look at
muscle size muscle strength muscle power
if you really wanted to build muscle
size it's a different type of training
than strength or power if you want to
get strong I remember in grad school one
of my girlfriends was a powerlifter I
was so much I had so much more muscle
than she did I was had much better
hypertrophy because I was training for
hypertrophy she was training for power
and strength they're different they're
different
having said that though most of us are
just going to go in and do a resistance
training um routine and I hear every day
it I just still can't believe it
especially when I talk about that plus
creatine I don't want to get big I have
been training women for 40 years for 40
years I've never had a woman doing
resistance training get bigger ever
never I've had women doing no resistance
training and not working out they get
bigger but every time I've ever seen a
woman do resistance training it's like
they just put on metabolic spanks it's
going to hold everything in tighter it's
going to now make you more insulin
sensitive now you've got better basil
metabolic rate you've got better like
recovery you've got more metabolic cost
recovery it it's going to shift you
completely to be leaner fitter higher
metabolism and you don't get bigger and
if you did if per chance you were going
I don't like the way this muscle looks
stop I mean you're lucky if you can
build one to two pounds of muscle a
month yeah right you'd have to do
everything right I mean very intentional
about that right diet sleep I mean
especially once you're 30 plus like your
hormones aren't kicking in to save you
here so there's so many things that you
need to do to really put this together
correctly and it's a slow process I
always tell people this is like watching
grass grow yeah that's a good an allergy
watching pain dry right it takes a very
very long time yes um and I want to get
into hormones later and talk about DHA
and testosterone and things like that
but what I I think where this concern
about excessive muscle with women comes
from if they haven't been doing any
resistance training and they have a
little bit of extra body fat and they
start really pushing it in the gym their
muscles might feel Fuller their glutes
or their legs and so and if they still
have a little bit of and they still want
to lose some body fat let's say they can
feel maybe a little bit more full and
then over time they'll start to lose the
body fat and they won't feel that right
size um have you found that to be the
case well so there's an easy solution to
that you know the easy solution to that
is to do recomping is to lose fat while
building muscle whenever I hear that I
think back to another myth that still
seems to be around that was in grad
school in fact my professors taught me
this in grad school and luckily I was
one of those people that did not listen
um because I had clients at the time so
I was like well that I'm not going to
get paid to do that they said do not
have someone lift weights till they've
lost the weight
which couldn't be farther from the truth
because you've got someone who's overfat
they tend to be more insulin resistant
the fastest way we can fix that is start
to do you know build muscle um but if
someone wants to drop some body fat and
build muscle then we just recomp them we
get them into a little caloric deficit
we pump their protein up a little higher
we have them doing resistance training
hit and lots of steps and boom nice it
can be done yeah and when you're looking
at Recon pumping and getting into a
calorie deficit do you like to do some
basil uh testing with metabolic rate and
to see where their metabolic rate is or
calorie tracking how do you navigate
those Waters so if I could have my
perfect world like in the perfect world
everyone would do a dexa and it would be
great if they could do a breath
metabolism test and compare them like
you know your dexa is going to do a
prediction of your fat-free mass and
then do a basil metabolic rate predicted
off of that and I know my breath test
and my dexa were different by about 100
calories
the other cool thing that you can do
though is I I think one of the first
things that we should do is just start
to track our
calories you know I'm sure you've seen
it if all you have someone do is just
track what they're
eating things shift yeah I I'll never
forget I had a client who could not
figure out why she couldn't lose weight
and you know she was reporting which she
back then we didn't have apps so she
would you know write down tell me what
she ate each day and I was like gosh
this doesn't make any sense and and then
I went over to her house cuz she invited
me for dinner and I'm watching her as
she's cooking and I'm
like I was transfixed because she put so
much she was eating so much while she
was cooking and she had no clue she did
that like she ate a whole meal before we
ever sat down to the meal and then she
told me about you know she basically
recorded the meal she ate and so it
sometimes it's just the awareness of
what you're actually eating of how much
olive oil I
I did a podcast with I forget who who
was like do more olive oil I think it
was Dr will Lee and I'm off to Italy and
I must have had like a cup of olive oil
on each salad you know and then you come
home you're like okay rain it in you
know it's still it's still calories you
know too much healthy foods unhealthy
and it's really e easy to overload on
things like nuts and avocados and olive
oil and ghee right yeah no I agree I
think just the the fact that you're
actually going to start tracking and
being accountable causes you to a little
bit more mindful about the mind leading
and I think that's a big aspect so yeah
I started doing that in the early 2000s
and then now have a pretty good Baseline
and haven't tried calories since but if
you haven't yet done that I think that's
a oh it's amazing so if you really want
to know how many calories you need every
day to maintain your weight just track
what you're eating for a week or two you
know you'll get now the challenge will
be first you're going to start to change
things to may you do it but you have to
get into a set place where you're really
tracking it and then you take the
average just like your body comp I tell
people just get a Bia machine a biome
pedance machine yes it's not as accurate
as a DEA but a DEA is not as accurate as
an MRI and an MRI is not as accurate as
Cav dissection so you do the best with
what you can but if you look at that
Trend over time you know once a week you
take the trend of the week because every
day you'd make yourself crazy and you do
a waste in a hip every week then you can
get a really good idea of if things are
improving or not right and so you can
put that together you can look at your
your tracking food app and go oh I
maintain really easily on an average of
this many calories a day might bounce a
little bit but you know I know for me
that's like right around 2400 is an
average some days like last night we
went had a meat Fest and did 3,000
calories the day before I might have
done 2,000 but it averages out smart and
then if you do have a a surplus like
that will you intentionally fast or have
a lower calorie the next day or you just
kind of go by how you feel no I just go
by how I feel I just
basically I eat protein first that is
the biggest thing I focused on and
here's what's crazy so last night we go
out and we're we're sitting right next
to one of those Brazilian steakhouses
we're like let's just go down there and
have a meat Fest we did a pure like sea
Baker would have been proud of us we sat
down and we literally had meat right
that's all we had and I'm like looking
at this I wish I had a food scale cuz
I'm trying to gauge how much of meat
that that we've eaten and you know you
just get full you're like I'm done um
but this week to today the scale was
down 2 lbs wow but that on both of us
we're both going I probably ate 24
ounces of meat last night at dinner yeah
lean Cuts but still you know it's lot
yeah it's a lot of meat that is totally
but I mean what's interesting about meat
in comparison to processed carbohydrates
and you know liquid oils and things like
that is the thermogenic effect of
protein right so 25% of that just boom
got expelled and I mean I remember last
night just and then we walked afterwards
like we got to go do something we have
to do something walk this off but I
thought last night when I went to bed I
go I'm probably not going to need to eat
for days I'm so full but woke up this
morning you know ready to ready to go
ready to have breakfast that's awesome
uh drilling down a little bit more on
protein um obviously there's tons of
research now I think protein the the
science is pretty clear that we should
at least be having one gram per pound of
body weight I don't know you I still
have been getting people pushing back on
this really uh-huh yes and the argument
is what
so I look at this really from body
composition I mean that's my focus is is
body composition and and for people who
want to lose weight gosh the easiest
thing is to have meat protein first
they're not hungry right but there's
still the two longevity camps and
there's that longevity Camp of like if
you want to you know increase health
span lifespan keep mtor low I'm like
I want great flux and I need balce you
wouldn't want to keep insulin low all
the time we'd have a problem you
wouldn't want to keep cortisol low all
the time you'd have a problem nor do you
want to keep mtor low all the time you
want it to come up come down you want
insulin up down right and so I still
hear that over there in fact I was just
somewhere where they had that discussion
saying they're going to come out and say
we need to eat lower protein I'm like I
completely disagree in fact I think we
should probably be supplementing with
essential amino acids too just to make
sure people are getting what they need
especially women who tend to not eat
less yeah and they just tell me they
can't get enough protein and I'm like
well eat it first yeah you know I just
watched you eat your biscotti your
muffin your this you're that like just
eat it first right the the low protein
Camp it's interesting I think we're
seeing science unveil in real time as
people age I mean if I were to see you
next to wter Longo and look at body
composition and just say who's going to
age more gracefully I was going to say
could I take him Let's do an arm wrestle
dude you know I don't want to be too
judgmental but I mean you know it is
interesting you you look at how people
are eating and how they're aging look at
Sea Baker 58 years old can oh my God
he's a specimen right so this idea that
theoretically mtor is this driver of all
these different diseases but the other
foods that increase empor are cookies
biscotti ice cream cones wouldn't it
differ with the tissue we're talking
about like I want my muscles like you
look at what happens as we age and you
look at the RIS with sarcopenia and and
the person talking to me about this I
also was looking at going you look
sarcopenic to me you know let to do some
pull-ups um you know I look at this and
and think I want to be as functional as
possible for as long as possible and you
must have great muscle size strength and
power to do that you can't build those
without protein right and if you look at
the amount of protein turnover we have
each day I want to make sure that I have
optimal to handle that totally cuz
there's no real store for protein in the
body no so we're going to be breaking
down muscle which we want to break down
buildup break down buildup but if we are
not really paying attention to this
we're going to be breaking down more
than we're building up yeah and I know
that's not like I literally test go do a
dexa now every six months and I because
for my 60th I'm like that's it I'm going
to get in the best shape ever and I was
like okay got got down to my leanest
body fat that I was with my 20s with
more muscle amazing so I'm like going it
doesn't have to be right and when I was
at I was at SC for my PhD work and we
had Master's level athletes in their 80s
and 90s that you know I mean they could
beat a 30-year-old any day of the week
yeah they're crushing it the the
lifelong Athletics as people get older
there was just a study because the
Olympics are going on as we record this
showing that Olympians live on average
about 5 years longer than non- Olympians
when you match their age so the idea of
regularly exercising and and stimulating
mtor and doing these things is very
beneficial well when you look at like I
think what's the big scary thing about
mtor is cancer but then you look at
people who exercise regularly and their
cancer risk is as close to zero as a GS
right so like I don't know put these
things together quality of life lower
lower way lower risk of cancer because
you're killing off those dead those
cells all the time and you know you can
do the things you want to do and feel
good yeah you know throughout life and
move well yeah it's interesting you know
I'm guilty and have been more guilty in
the past of drilling down into these
mechanisms whether it's mtor igf-1 or
what have you and you get really excited
about the cellular biology but then you
kind of lose the forest through the
trees and I think sometimes we're seeing
that in all facets of of Health we see
that with cardiovascular disease monom
manically focusing on LDL but affecting
not looking at LP little a or all these
other factors so that's interesting but
what I found with the protein
conversation is it gets really sort of
clouded or obfuscated with well what's
better for Animal Welfare what about the
environment how sustainable is it so all
these other sort of emotional buttons
and levers get pulled and then we're
kind of getting away from what we're
talking about so we need to talk about
just one Topic at a time like what is
best for Human Health and Longevity
supporting muscle we know it's so
important for as you mentioned um
overall health cancer reduction
preventing Frailty sarcopenia and not
confusing that topic with the other
aspects of the environment or Animal
Welfare yeah well I mean if if if it's
an environmental issue just stop food
transport yeah and we should probably
stop traveling so much but I mean those
you know you look at and go what's
really causing the problem you know it's
uh it being in Europe and having fruit
that doesn't taste like the fruit here
and I realize well it's because they're
not transporting it like if it's not in
season it's not there yeah which is what
we should be doing right yeah that's
what we should be doing just have eat
seasonal local organic rotate your food
the stuff we know that we're supposed to
do but then it's like you go oh I can
get cherries and it's December yay
you're you're Minnesota right where show
me the cherry tree in December exactly
it's like come on have you seen that
Meme on the internet where there was
peirs grown in Latin America they were
packaged in the Philippines and then now
they're sold in the US so it is kind of
interesting that we focus so much on how
destructive meat and cattle are for the
environment but then you look at these
so-called plant-based foods which I
quite enjoy I like pears they grow in
our backyard no I don't think of that as
a plant-based food to me a plant-based
food is the weird Burger thing like I
where was I and they literally had on
the menu this just over the last couple
days and I remember looking this going
you have a
glutenfree battered plant-based fish
stick what would that be what is that
jack fruit maybe or yeah it's bizarre
taking all these and think about the
greenhouse gases that are created to do
that from the crop production and
whatever else it it's just an
interesting conversation but I feel like
this is going to be like the uh the
topic of our life in the next 5 to 10
years as the climate activists really
sort of go after diet and and protein in
this um but getting back to for your
clients where do you like them to aim
people always want numbers and targets
how many grams whatever does it change
on where people are at on their fitness
journey you know what's so interesting
about all of this is a lot of the
numbers I was taught in my 20s are very
different than the numbers now but yet
we haven't changed so just like even
body fat percentage back when I was in
school I was taught that you know a
healthy woman was 18 to 22% body fat
maybe up to 25% and that if she was
athletic she'd be somewhere in the 15 to
20% range and men were you know healthy
at 8 to 15% right and now it's entirely
different and and so you know I look at
these things and go numbers I'm sorry
I'm going with the numbers for where you
want to be optimally and not let's like
not try to make this this whole idea
that you can be healthy at any size is
so unfair to people because you're
giving them misinformation and by the
time they realize that it's a bunch of
BS it's it's going to be late and hard
so I think the first thing we need to do
and I I started doing this years ago
because I couldn't find any norms for
skeletal muscle and literally back I
think this was 25 years ago I created
norms for skeletal muscle because I was
like really if we focused on having the
right amount of of muscle mass which you
know we have to do the proxy of fat-free
mess and a guesstimate okay we don't
have any great way to be super accurate
but we can get close enough um I think
that if we start to look at this and go
let's focus on um improving our skeletal
muscle and how you could just do this to
say get get yourself in the right range
for your body mass index with to healthy
body fat if you are at the right range
for your um BMI but your body Fat's High
your skeletal muscle is low right so
that's an easy one and then as far as
the other numbers go um are you looking
for like protein but I look at it
protein as I think that the range should
be 7 is the minimum per pound of Target
body weight and honestly if someone's
really working on recomping going up to
1.5
okay because it's just going to be
easier yeah so so that makes it easy for
that one gram but I just want people to
not be scared if they go over that
there's still this idea of oh my gosh I
went over and I'm went and nothing
happened you know like if your body
really had to do it it could it could
turn it into sugar you know and use it
so but that's really hard I someone I
was interviewing they told me that you
know you don't want to eat too much
protein because it you know it'll be
stored as fat and I go not very easily
that's a big really hard process to ever
get to be stored as fat so I like that
in in terms of protein sources um I'm
personally not a huge fan of chicken we
have backyard chickens and stuff like
that I love eggs and red meat um some
people don't like red meat they don't
like the taste or you know whatever
which is really too bad because gosh the
polyphenols I mean red meat I think is a
huge important part of our diet so let's
talk about that what what aspect I mean
I I know you're a fan of creatine which
is where I want to go next and the Caron
nutrients that's something you've been
talking a lot about for years creatin
cartine Tor and all that but why do you
think red meat is a
superfood um the polyphenols in it so we
don't think about that and I remember
you know as I started to look at the
carnivore diet and I always joke if I
had to be on a diet I'd be on the
carnivore diet like if I had to do one
thing it would be carnivore and coffee
uh that would be it but you know when I
look at that di I'm always like yeah but
where's the five fber you know where's
the fiber but when you look at what you
can get you can get a lot of nutrients
in meat that you don't think about we
tend to think of meat as protein and
iron but there's all these polyphenols
in there too especially depending on the
you know animals diet we are what we eat
eight I think the big argument around
meat is always of course you know the
way we're treating cows or what they're
eating like yeah but eat good ones you
know eat clean you are you eat eight um
so I think red meat
is really a great Cornerstone for
people's diets because of all the
nutrients are going to get into it and I
and and I agree with you like most of
the chicken that we get is just bad
they're grown in warehous nasty chicken
it's always amazing I was in Peru a
couple summers ago and we stopped by the
roadside to a chicken stand literally
the chickens were there and then they
were cooking the chickens you know I'm
glad I didn't see the ineter of that but
those chickens look entirely different
than our chickens you know they don't
have those big breasts right they
haven't been like augmented chickens
like we have that are that are higher in
Omega sixes so um I'm much more a fan of
Clean Fish lamb and meat I agree with
you those are the better choices and if
you're not intolerant like great eggs
now just being in Europe I remember
walking up to the buffet and looking at
the scrambled eggs and going the
scrambled eggs are bright orange even
here when you're ordering from the when
you're going to the store and getting
pastured eggs they do not look like the
eggs of Europe which is really
disappointing it's great that you have
chickens and you can get the bright
orange yolks at home but for most of us
at least make sure you're getting
pastured totally no I agree and what's
interesting in Europe is they don't
rinse the eggs off I mean at the grocery
store they're out near the cereal or
whatever it may be they're not stored so
yeah I found the food quality having
just been in Europe we were both there
around the same time in June to be much
higher across the board oh it's
incredible like I came out of and
literally we ate everything people was
like do you follow your you know diet
there I go I would never have done the
virgin diet in Europe because there's no
need you know um I eat everything there
I just not a big bread eater although at
One Restaurant they had this like
24-hour fermented sourdough we're like
bring it over here um but it was crazy
we went
to a 17 course Michelin dinner we went
to a wine tasting we went to all of
these things ate all of this stuff I
come home I have dropped 2 lbs wow
and the minute I go I was at an airport
I told you I was in the it Global outage
so we're now stuck at an airport hotel
we go to dinner I have fish I have
vegetables I have the worst stomach ache
ever like I look like I've got you know
I'm six months pregnant dying it was my
first meal back yeah so we it is I don't
know how to fix this one we so messed up
our food supply and when you think about
it like you know I make good choices and
I get stuff you know I'm getting great
stuff from great places and still I mean
so what does the you know typical
person who is going to an average
grocery store I mean it is really hard
and that's not even looking at the food
desert situation right it's very
challenging um I I don't know why that
message is not being conveyed from the
healthcare professionals about the
importance of whole real foods and yeah
I don't I don't know the solution but I
think it is more of a Grassroots
movement and encouraging people to do
what you just said uh several Clips ago
and that is eat within you know 100 mile
radius if you can you know it's cheaper
too a lot cheaper you care about the
environment I mean that seems to be the
most valuable solution um and then
you're eating foods that are in season
there's good research to show our
microbiome sort of changes seasonally
and then so in the winter months you're
having more meat more stews things like
that maybe all the root vegetables and
yeah yeah it just makes sense so I think
that's the that's the solution but
getting people to get on to that message
is is tough because we focus on calories
and then we look at these different
diets and they focus on these numbers
and point systems and low calories oh my
God the Weight Watcher situation it's
like will we ever recover from that I
don't know you look at so I I I looked
at Spain I what are our takeaways our
takeaways are except for the Americans I
didn't see anyone walking down the
street eating or drinking yeah like if
they were going to have a coffee they
sat down at the coffee place and had a
coffee they didn't have a jumbo siiz
Frappuccino with whipped cream on it
unless they were an American right um
they didn't walk down the street eating
they actually took time with their meals
now granted their meals are ridiculously
late at night but you know it's all real
food and I was looking at just the
difference in Ultra processed food in
Spain versus United States their diets
maybe 25% Al processed food ours is over
70 now the late night eating thing is a
conundrum for me hav spend time in Latin
America how do you do you think that
they're able to sort of overcome that
with all the socialization and walking
and taking time for their meals I mean
to me that seems like all the research
that I've read about eating close to
bedtime is bad for body composition and
Sleep Quality blood sugar I know it
makes no that's the one I was like but I
don't know how to wrap my brain around
this the only thing I looked at there is
I went well we just spent two hours
eating dinner maybe three and then we
all went and walked Mak sense so it at
least the walking is going to Aid the
digestion and I'm assuming so I was like
what you know what time do you go to bed
if you eat at 10:00 sure and what time
do you get up and what are you doing and
so that one I just that's the one I
wouldn't take home right you know it
just doesn't make any sense however they
are walking after that so that that
definitely makes a big difference yeah
speaking of walking there's a lot of
good research to show we should be
walking at least about 9,000 steps per
day is that something that you found to
be pretty effective just you know I know
you walk and are intentional about when
you walk particularly in the postmeal
window um what do you tell your clients
so I'm obsessed with walking um like in
my I like I'm very very left brain
algorithmical so I like to kind of go
what do we need to do in terms of
Fitness priorities and I think the place
we all need to start is tracking and
tracking your steps now I'll tell you
this drives my husband crazy because for
some reason you know we'll be together
the whole day and I'll have like 2,000
more steps than him he's like what is it
I go I think you must put your hand in
your pocket I don't know like you're not
swinging your arms like I'm swinging but
I as I started to track it I realized
gosh there are some days I'm getting
like six 7,000 steps this is not okay so
I've made my Benchmark now my like bare
minimum is 10,000 steps which of course
you could imagine on that boat I'm like
okay we got to do something here when
I'm on a cruise ship I never never take
the elevators and even in hotels that's
kind of our rule like whenever we can we
take stairs as much as possible um and
we walk as much as possible but I think
for a client if you're listening you're
going all right it's I'm I'm fired up
let's get in shape I think the first
place we start is to make sure that
we're getting that activity in that
we're getting in minimum 8,000 I really
like 10 12 you know more more is better
um and then the next part of that is to
add some intensity and I think these
wrecking vests are the greatest things
ever like I just love wck vest so that's
such an easy way to add intensity cuz I
live in Florida and there's no Hills
yeah it's like so what are you going to
do uh and it's great if you're just at
home on a little treadmill you know
walk-in pad you can add your rcking vest
but then after that then I start
building in now let's building
resistance training now let's add in
some power and strength into it you know
some high velocity but I think that's
your core Foundation that we have to
emphasize it's like flossing your teeth
drinking water getting your steps
yeah that's amazing and what weight do
you use personally for the wrecking vest
what yours depends what I'm doing so
I'll go anywhere from 15 to 25 okay I
know and then I saw my buddy shellene
Johnson's at 25 and I'm like you're like
half my size so I was like I need to
probably up that it up a little bit yeah
go back and forth maybe yeah I found it
to be very effective uh wrecking I have
100 pound one that I use to to train for
like the summer hiking backpacking
season and things like that and I'll do
a mile with that several days a week but
it's amazing like just if you look at
your heart rate I mean it Jacks it up
huge well I don't know if you remember
this because you are much younger than
me but back in the day we had these
stupid little hand weights that
everybody was using to work out with and
I'm like don't do that and they were
then they were putting ankle weights on
and going and walking I was like don't
do that just you know if you think about
it we started wrecking when we were kids
we wore backpacks remember all the books
we used to have to take to school MH
like we were
wrecking so I I have a backpack with me
on this trip cuz I like all right I'll
be able to pull this off and I go yeah
but I don't really have anything heavy I
can put in it to go travel I guess a ton
of water bottles which would work um but
it's one of the easiest ways because if
you don't have a rucking vest and you
don't want to spend a hundred bucks just
take a backpack and throw some books in
it yeah makes sense and it seems from a
evolutionary standpoint or or teic uh
perspective humans would do that right
Hunter gathers would go Forge for food
whether it's finding berries or nuts or
hunting um it's something that humans I
think of like when I was a you know
young mom and I had my kids a year apart
so I had like the year and a half and
the six month and I had a Baby Bjorn on
the front and I had a a big bigger
backpack thing that my older one could
sit on in the back and I'd go hike the
hills I was up in North Carolina I was
like all right this will work it was
like the ultimate wrecking totally that
is so cool I love that and plus you're
in you know encouraging your kids and
getting them in nature early on there
was just a a really interesting study in
lancit scientific report reports finding
time in nature is correlated with
physical health and reductions and all
these different diseases and we we kind
of discount that so one thing I
recommend for people is like yeah it's
great to do a treadmill you know if it's
snowy 5: in the morning but if you can
exercise Outdoors you feel so much
better you know I told you I was on that
boat trip with um the blands and the
Pearl mutter so David and Lee Pearl
mutter and Tim and I ran out we would do
hikes every day and literally I'm like
this is what they call Forest bathing it
was the most beautiful thing I ever seen
and we're walking through it and David's
telling us all the research as to why
this is so important for neurology Etc
but it I mean just the chlorophyll the
smells the sunlight it's amazing yeah
I'm a huge fan so and plus it's great
for kids I mean a lot of kids now just
spend up to six hours a day on screens
you know so encouraging our kids early
on to to you know put them throw them
outside yeah that's amazing uh I want to
get you know talking about kids I want
to get into hormones but also let's
finish up protein and Caron nutrients uh
something that you were telling me
offline and that how creatine really
helped you with jet lag we know creatine
helps with cellular energy production
during intense exercise but there's
other cognitive benefits um how did you
discover this so I you know when you
look back when someone says what would
you do differently if you had to do
differently I would be like I probably
would not have been in the Sun as much
and I would have started creatine really
early uh I used to train people at Gold
shim and Venice and carnine cre [ __ ]
was the dude's thing so I just never
even thought about using it till a
couple years ago and as I started to
unpack the research on I'm like this is
like every
woman should be on Creatine in my
opinion because if you look at it we
have less tissue stores and you know we
store the majority of creatin in our
muscle but it's a small percent goes to
our brain and it's amazing and so that's
why when you look at using it Beyond
just for um you know muscle performance
it's and bone health Etc if you want it
for your brain you got to push it a
little bit more too and women Tech
typically are not getting uh creatin
rich foods as much as men are as well so
you have that issue you know they can
get some from fish so I've never been a
good time zone a gesture and I talked
myself into this I was like you you know
can't do this and then I started to read
the research on Creatine and sleep
deprivation and it's incredible and so I
was like all right I'm going to give
this a try was talking to a creatine
researcher who goes this this is an
incredible thing to use for jetti so I
have my Baseline that I use and then I
just kick it up like I'll kick it up for
exercise and I'll kick it up for jetti
and I mean just I just if I get
someplace like when we went to Madrid we
took an overnight flight that was only
like 7 hours because it was from Boston
which is a terrible Redeye flight right
and so we get like four and a half hours
of sleep we get to Madrid and what I did
was I booked a dinner that night as a as
early as possible 8:00 which we were the
first ones there right um 2 and a half
miles from the hotel and I booked it and
paid for it so that we would lose the
money if we didn't go so we walked to
dinner so we knew when we landed that we
had to go walk to this dinner and we
were both like so we just hit ourselves
with a bunch of creatine and we were
fine it's I mean it is amazing the
difference you feel and it's this really
nice energy not like a caffeine type
it's it just feels like someone just
turned the light bulb up it's just
fantastic and you know I went from you
know being in London with you then we
went to Boston then we went to Madrid
then we went to Lisbon then we went to
Florida then we went to Seattle wow and
literally there were like you know two
days two days it was crazy shifting with
zero jetti that's impressive that's
never happened before by the way right
that's really impressive the studies
coming out on Creatine as it pertains to
sleep deprivation are really uh
interesting because if you look at like
word ret word recall cognitive
processing verbal Acuity all these
things uh after they intentionally
deprive sleep and subjects it's really
uh impressive compared to the control
group and I think that a lot of people
don't realize that it has a brain based
benefit because they think of creatine
and they associate it with analism and
they think well I I don't want to put on
that much muscle I don't want to lose my
hair it's like well [ __ ] is really
helping with energy production there is
zero on that hair loss thing like all
these crazy myths that just won't go
away I think if we get ourselves to a
nice Baseline of creatine that we should
always be on and then push it use it for
hard workouts for sleep deprivation
because you want to make sure you have
what you need in your brain but I mean
then there's the the postmenopausal
study that showed that women on
anti-depressants who use creatine had
way better effects than women who
weren't so I mean there's but you need
to have enough there's a small
percentage that's going to be in the
brain and it's not going to be in the
brain if you don't have enough tissue
stores of it in your muscle so you need
to make sure you're getting enough of it
and it's if you're a woman and you're
eating the typical female diet of you
know like the yogurt with the fruit on
top and the muffins and the that stuff
you're not getting it right for a
minimum effective dose would you say
like five grams a day if women are not
eating reg so if you're taking
monohydrate yes um and what I have women
doing who are taking monohydrate cuz
they're so freaked out about it is start
just start with a gram then go to two
then go to three just bump it up and
take it throughout the day so that
you're not like worried about it and
then make sure that you're also doing
bioimpedance because you want to have
more water in your muscles it's a good
thing it's a good thing so we all like
we've gotten so we're so weight focused
women are and you've we've got to start
to look at what that weight's made up of
like I was a teenager I was always the
heavy heavyweight person in school right
because I was always muscular and I was
always the tallest so I just got used to
being heavy and I remember wanting to be
a model and them telling me I had to
lose 20 pounds now I was probably 10%
body fat at the time and I tried to lose
10 my dance teacher thought I was
anorexic and I remember the time just
going you know what I'm just not a
skinny person I'm going to choose strong
yeah cuz you can't be both it's amazing
yeah I I agree with that mindset and and
not focusing on just this sweet spot of
120 lb or whatever it is there's like
this 120 lb so I had a client come to me
and she was 120 lb and she wanted to
lose 10 lb and she didn't need to lose
10 lb she was skinny fat you know she
needed to lose some fat she need to put
on some muscle fortunately I had a one
of the first um tanita $5,000 biome
pedon scales that was segmental that
told me everything and over the course
of the year she lost 10 lbs of fat and
put on 10 pounds of muscle and she
dropped like 2 inches off her waist she
went from 25% to 18% body fat she looked
like an entirely different person
and you can guess what I'm about to tell
you she gained weight no she didn't gain
any weight she stayed exactly the same
and she was upset no way of course gosh
that's wild these these stigmas Run Deep
and these biases
and well I I think thankfully that
perception is changing thanks to
CrossFit and you know Instagram and
people are seeing female athletes look
really feminine and good with more
muscle so I I think that's going to take
this old idea that women need to be very
petite and you what's interesting I
don't know where it even came from
because if you look at most men they're
not attracted to like skinny minis you
know so it's like where is it coming
from right forget them you know so you
know it's it's I don't know where that
ever came from and why it won't go away
yeah you know
it's challenging um but but I love the
aspect that you mentioned there and our
cells need water and that's what you
look at you know the ten unit or any bio
impedance and creatine helps tug water
into muscle tissue in particular and
that's a good thing yes but I think
people are so afraid of what the evil
water retention and and this but there's
actually some interesting research using
creatine in hot human environments and
helping athletic uh performance you know
stay at a high level in where we know
that temperature is inversely correlated
with like V2 Max and these proxies of
athleticism so it's actually a good
thing the water retention should be I
mean that that's part of what makes you
U part of its strength enhancing benefit
so I'm glad you're helping to dispel
that myth that well if creatine helps
you retain more water in your cells
you're going to be more hydrated not the
opposite right which is ultimately going
to be better for body comp losing fat
having better cortisol levels like your
body does not like being dehydrated
right uh another kind of nut nutrient
that you've been talking about for a
long time is carnitine uh what do you
think about cartine for fat loss and
this is there any yeah you know it was
one of the first things that I learned
about early on because of our mutual
friend Robert Cray and at the time was
like okay this was going to be the
miracle you know I remember I think the
book was called The cartin Miracle
wasn't that the book you read the car um
I think it's very interesting to look
at uh organic acid tests
and see if this is something that could
help you or not now I've used it a lot
for brain nutrition doing acety Al
carnitine but it just really depends on
if someone needs it or not and I I
didn't find it to be this miracle that
someone took carnitine all of a sudden
they're dropping body fat it's like I
wish it I wish it was the case I do feel
like it helps with energy and especially
brain energy um but again it's going to
depend on someone's diet I agree
speaking of Robert um he passed away
pretty early what you knew him um I went
to several of his seminars back in
Boulder and things like that um did you
know that he had symptoms of colon
cancer like so I still remember the
phone call I got from him because he
goes I've just got such bad adrenal
fatigue and I go I don't that doesn't
sound like adrenal fatigue and my guess
is having been around um you know my dad
died of cancer and had a cough he was a
smoker and had a cough for years we're
like did you check on the cough you know
and another girlfriend who had really
bad skin cancer with this huge mole
we're like did you check the mole and
you know we'll never know but my guess
is that was a way to put your head in
the sand and kind of go this must be
this right um although it's so unusual
you still look and go how does a healthy
40-year-old have colon cancer like that
is just such a Bizarro thing um and you
wouldn't think to check unless you had
the symptoms of that so he just
I don't know you know it's still it's
still one of those head scratchers some
people speculate but he he was really
enthusiastic about five methyl tet
hydrolate and folinic acid and this that
perhaps overdoing that he drove a
pathway I don't know I I just wanted to
talk to you about you know what's
interesting um I am not as excited about
supplements in general as I used to be I
don't know where you stand with this but
I used to be like every time I go to
another conference I'm like another
thing you know um and I've gotten I've
really kind of hit the brakes on a lot
of it where I still think like the
foundational things we should look at is
do an omega-3 index optimize your
omega-3 um do a vitamin D3 test optimize
your vitamin D3 and K and get your
magnesium dialed those are like my
foundational things and then beyond that
I'll look at more things like
electrolytes and creatine and essential
amino acids and collagen um I do I do
love me my mitop pure from timeline and
qualia Celtics those those are the other
ones but I am not anywhere where I used
to be with like taking so excessive
amount of supplements uhuh not even a
multi do you take a multi ever I don't
take a multi um I've done and it's
probably time to do another organic
acids test and generally the only thing
I ever find that I need there is you
know hit myself with some more be
but than that I'm usually we always fine
um and now that I've got mitap Pure I'm
not even taking coq1 like I used to so
remind me what's in the mitop pure mitop
pure is uthan a okay it's that um it's
that compound that we should be able to
make in our guts if we were eating a lot
of cranberries and walnuts and we're the
40% of the people that can but the cool
thing with with it and you know when I
look at that in the calics as we age
we're breaking down more than we're
building up one of the things that tends
to slow down is our ability to get rid
of these damaged cells so with timelines
MIT ofure they it's mitophagy so it's
helping you clear out recycle regenerate
your mitochondria so big thing for aging
and then with the Celtics they have nine
different types of senolytics to clear
out those zombie cells so I look at
those things and go that's the stuff I
want to make sure of like I'm building
but I want to get rid of the trash too
totally that's key but that's why I love
exercise yeah which everyone talks about
like let's do intermittent fasting for
autophagy I go just exercise like
exercise it's really that's a that's
been a hard one for me CU I I started
out making a lot of videos on fasting
although I did exercise at the same time
but the research was quite appealing but
when I started to dive into autophagy as
it's related to exercise and part of the
adaptations from exercise is autophagy
like wow this is a way better mechanism
to clear the soal and it's predictable
cuz I'm still wondering how we know when
a really starts and I've never seen a
clear answer on this well you have to
look at the cellular uh expression of
autophagy related proteins but speak to
that wouldn't it be different for
everybody like well there was one study
that I love to share and we'll just
quickly highlight it uh sedentary
controls versus people who were
physically active and they looked they
ascertained physical fitness by V2 Max
so they stratified people who were fit
based on their based upon their age
related V2 Max people who had really low
V2 Maxes because they did not exercise
after 36 hours of fasting still didn't
hit the same level of autophagy compared
to just 18 hours of fasting for people
who were fit so it's like look if you
want to get the most out of your fast
you need to be fit and train regularly
well and plus you'd want to be fit in
training so you're not losing muscle
during your fast so yes yikes yeah so
that's I think a message that hopefully
after another exercise for the win right
I mean like let's just where's the bad
stuff on it it's hard to come by it's
hard to come by yeah you know it takes
effort but that's the you know what in
life if you do hard things then you can
do hard things and you're going to get
faced with hard things and so the more
you can train for those hard things the
easier they all get like I I look at
this and I go you know the less you do
the less you can do but the more you do
the more you can do so exercise is a
very controlled way for you to do hard
things because I I loved that book um
Michael Easter's Comfort crisis and what
that next one is was that he did but
it's so true it's like we just get more
and more and more comfortable you look
at what's happening with our health and
a lot of it's because of us being so
comfortable it's a great point and
speaking of that what about son and C
plunges where do you follow with thermal
stress oh so we have at the house I'm
not a fan of biohacking MH I'm a fan of
good recovery like to me I look at it
and go if you're eating correctly and
exercising well and sleeping well like I
don't think we should hack those things
you know get all that stuff dialed and
then if there's something you want to
work on you know take a shortcut but you
can't shortcut the basics um what we did
at home was we created a a I have an
amazing gym at home and then we took
what was our gym and we turned it into a
recovery room so we have a big sunlight
in sauna that's our evening sauna and
then we have a small fast heat sauna
that goes up to 180° so in the morning
we can go in there do that and then go
get in the cold plunge and then we have
the ju big panel of red lights and then
I go stand in front of the red lights of
course I have to be home to do that so
that's the challenge in my perfect world
I would be doing that you know three to
four times a week um the reality is like
I've been home a week the whole summer
so but it's fine you're out in nature
you're in Europe I mean you got to look
it it was well worth it so but I'm a big
fan of that I'm really intrigued with
this search showing saa's helping with
um anabolism and doing them after you've
resistance trained I have not done that
one yet I what I'll do is I'll get up in
the morning do my my sauna the hot sauna
and then get into the cold before I go
so I don't block any muscle protein
synthesis and then at night we'll watch
that's our Netflix you want to watch
Netflix you got to get in the sauna
that's our rle that's awesome that's a
really good trade-off yeah cuz otherwise
you're flopped on the couch I'm like at
night I want I either want us out
walking or an the we got to do something
yeah right that's key and the photo bi
modulation with like the ju and these
red lights and infrared lights and so
forth what have you noticed with that so
I just started with a face one since I
can't travel with the big red one we did
get when we were in London we met a guy
who has this wraparound red light
company so we brought that with us for
Tim because he's getting a hip
replacement so we have an ice machine we
have the wraparound red um and a bunch
of supplements
I don't know I just don't know what it's
doing
um and I don't know if it's just I
haven't been consistent but I can't tell
yeah like I can tell like sauna you know
you're like oh boy and and cold you know
red light is the one where I I'm there
for 12 minutes and I'm like you know
watching watching you on YouTube um
entertaining myself going I hope this is
doing something but I can't tell can you
no I so I did a little experiment in
2017 when I got the juv light they sent
one to me and I wanted to figure some
things out and i' had been hearing from
Ben Greenfield that it increases
testosterone so I ran my Baseline
testosterone levels and then put it you
know near my general for 10 minutes a
day and I did see a significant increase
in free in total test really so that to
me was pretty how long did it take to
get that so that was about uh 60 days so
I did every day um 10 minutes I would
just stand in front of a naked basically
um but that was pretty impressive that's
really imp like the guys when they came
over to the house said it could you know
restore my thyroid function I was like
Wow but I would have to be in front of
it for three you know and that's what I
haven't managed to pull off as really
being in front of it enough days in a
row to be able to see a thing so it an
interesting thing happened when we went
we went to Korea last summer on the way
to Bali and we were with do you know an
Shippy Dr an Shippy so Ann's like I want
to go to the jins sing Museum I'm
thinking really anyway you have to have
an appointment to go it's a whole thing
we get there it's the state run uh
ginsing Museum and they have this
special six-year-old black root ginsing
they do not export somehow we end up
with a year supply for all of us of
ginsing thousands of dollars and a
couple months into this Tim gets his
testosterone levels back and I get my my
hormone levels back estrogen
testosterone
thyroid they're all high and I'm like
why haven't changed anything in fact I'd
had a hysterectomy and I'm like if
anything I had my intest because like I
probably have to crank things up no had
to cut them down and I was then at a
lecture that Chris shade was doing
talking about um improving hormone
receptor sensitivity now I knew this for
insulin but I don't know why I ever
never thought about it for anything else
and he was talking about ginsing and I
went oh my gosh that's what happened wow
we just improved our hormone re receptor
sensitivity and we were able to lower
all of our hormones that's amazing
that's profound yeah was this in Soul
there was isn't that beautiful so was
amazing I loved it I loved the food that
that whatever that steak was that's like
you know better than wagu that we like
we went for dinner one night and and
chiy was like we need to come here every
night I'm like that was a $200 steak an
right yeah but there's kimchi with every
meal before and after yeah oh the food
like the food it just shows you how when
you go to these countries and they
always have something pickled there's
always some fermented food there you
know and it's just nothing I grew up
with so the problem is I hate fermented
food except for wine because I didn't
grow up with it and it's like oh yeah
it's a little bitter or smelly so with
regards to the Gins sing that's an
amazing tip do you still supplement with
ginsing in fact we just started to run
out of it and Tim it turns out once
you're on the list they'll ship it to
you so we just ordered another couple
thousand dollars of this black jins sing
it's it's amazing yeah I mean amazing so
you know those are different things that
I'm looking at now is if you could use
something that helps restore insulin or
hormone receptor
sensitivity wow it makes a lot of sense
I mean with all the research coming out
on microplastics and how they're getting
into our tissues and augmenting hormones
and stuff like that that that seems like
a really nice thing you just wonder how
much of that we could get out with
consistent infrared sauna use like yeah
you know I just feel like every house
needs a sauna like this this is such a
big deal and then you look at places I
don't know if you've been to Iceland or
one of my favorite places on the planet
and you know they're one of the happiest
countries there's the top four of the
happiest healthiest countries they all
spa and it's their regular stuff that
they coal plunge and do saunas and
that's just and have those thermal baths
and it's just part of what they do every
day yeah I mean it's really great for
socialization too especially in the
winter it's like what else are you going
to do drink watch football or go the and
do Co plunges Ian it's a great which
would be better Wonder that's wild um
getting back to hormones that's one
thing I wanted to address with you I've
personally noticed in my 40s DHEA to be
pretty effective um with hormones are
you doing there's um transdermals creams
there's pellets what have you found to
be effective first of all I think that
um I'm I'm so relieved that the
information is out even though it's
still people are still afraid but at
least the information's out on that
silly women's health initiative and I
mean it really devastated a whole
generation of women however we now have
doctors I don't know if you know Dr
Feliz gers she is amazing 70-year-old
woman who is basically putting women who
were in that Lost Generation on hormones
in their 60s and their 70s because it
was always like oh you can't start if
you missed the window it's like would no
you can um you going to be able to undo
some of the loss of bone and the
cardiovascular you know stuff that's
can't unfry an egg but you can still get
a lot of benefits I was fortunate in
that I was teaching this course called
overcoming weight loss resistance and
one of the things in the course was you
know thyroid issues and another thing
was sex hormone
imbalances well I noticed the minute my
thyroid went down and I remember going
because my TSH would always be around
one and all of a sudden it jumps to 2.2
which would be normal range except for
for me all the side effects and so I
started supplementing with that in my
40s but then when my son got hit I went
into like immediate like metabolic
crisis with my hormones and I I started
using creams to begin with I do not like
creams I think that um and I'm not a fan
of pellets because if you don't have the
right dose you're stuck yeah so you know
and when you really look at
hormones it once a woman's through
menopause it's so much easier as they're
going through the last thing you'd want
to do is get stuck with the dose because
you are on a you know you're basically
on a paddle board out in the middle of
the ocean and sometimes it's calm and
sometimes it's absolutely crazy and
you've got to be able to adjust things
as needed and so I think oral
progesterone um I love the patches for
estrad and then I use I use shots of
testosterone I found that when I used
the cream it just it it worked too much
I was like this is what a guy feels like
and then it stopped working
um but then I can titrate these easily
and change them now they're really
stable after but there was quite a while
in there where I was shifting things
when I first started using hormones I
was able to do most of my estrogen
through testosterone because
testosterone was the first one that
started to drop you know but this is
where working with a good functional
doctor and also kind of knowing where
your levels were like if you really look
at this we should be identifying levels
in your 30s you know early 30s maybe 20s
so you really see where you feel best
and then you should be working with your
thyroid and your adrenals to really
optimize those so that by the time you
need hormones you need the least amount
right and you're doing as much as you
possibly can like if you're completely
stressed out you're going to have a
problem you got to fix that first you
can't just Band-Aid these things with
hormones right but on the other hand
take your hormones I agree yeah
especially women after menopause um yeah
you'll lose your brain you'll lose your
bones you'll lose your heart like you
look at the risks for women and now this
research coming out showing that you
probably have a lower risk of breast
cancer when you're taking hormones but
it's really taking them correctly right
and not using the hormone like synthetic
products that M your medicine for on
people that's the crazy thing to me you
know you you women will say well I'm on
progesterone and it's like a synthetic
progestin yeah it's like why would you
do that it's it's a really inexpensive
easy oral compounded
yeah thing like that's not hard and have
you found that to help with sleep in
particular so I am not a good person
with progesterone I feel like and this
is where everyone has to be different
like I will use I use it a week out of
the month progesterone makes me break
out cry and gain weight when you look at
steady state elevated progesterone the
only time that you've got steady state
elevated progesterone is when you're
pregnant the minute I got pregnant with
my kids I gained 12 pounds I wanted to
cry like and I can count on one hand the
amount of times that I cry like I just
don't cry if I'm pregnant or I have too
much progesterone I'll sit and cry and
won eat chocolate chip
cookies so you got to know yourself
right I'm not someone that does well
with progesterone so I cycle it very
carefully um but you know if you look at
it it's if you're high progesterone low
estrogen that will be insulin resistance
okay so address that first well I mean
work with a really good functional
medicine doctor who understands the
lifestyle side of this I mean look at
the gut your gut better be working well
so you can detoxify these hormones too
right so you want to make sure you've
got your gut working well you've got
your your stress managed you're dealing
with your adrenals your thyroid dialed
in if your thyroid is not dialed in
you're not going to be able to balance
your hormones then you start dosing
these things and I really feel like it's
the least amount you need you know the
least amount you need to get to where
you want to be at Baseline which is your
cardiovascular markers look great I
remember I was working in Palm Desert
and and I would see the doctors would
send me all of their clients all their
patients with their labs and I could
tell before I even would look at what
they were taking if they were on
hormones or not because if they were
postmenopausal not on hormones elevated
LDL elevated uh insulin elevated
inflammatory markers um you know because
you look at estrogen it's going to help
you build muscle it's going to reduce
inflammation super important for insulin
sensitivity so that's where we've they'
you've got got to look at this and go
okay I've got to how how's my bone
mineral density something we should be
testing girls and their teens and they
20s I'm not sure why we wait till the
the egg is scrambled and then go oh
shoot you know you've got Minal through
urine oh no so bone meral density is
aexa okay yeah it's aexa so you know
because girls are going to build their
bone their teens early 20s that's those
are prime bone that's like when you
really look at it the most important
thing that you could have with a teenage
daughter is to get her into resistance
training get her into things that build
her bone build her
muscle build that mitochondria right um
and yet it's not it's not happening yeah
hopefully it's happening now but yeah
people are waking up to that I mean part
of it is logistically gyms I mean my
daughter's 12 I can't bring her to the
gym I used to sneak her into one gym but
their insurance waiver doesn't allow
them to train until they're 14 what it's
so I still remember back in the day that
you were not supposed to lift weights if
you were a little kid and I go okay but
we're doing all of this gymnastics yeah
like we're doing push-ups and pull-ups
and jumps so what's the difference right
so wow that's just too bad yeah maybe
that will change uh over time that
that's wild but I want to get back to
you said something about your
testosterone how that dropped first is
that a universal phenomenon or do do you
think that's just unique to your I think
that's these things are that were all
snowflakes for a lot of people the first
thing that drops is progesterone that's
why you'll see women have trouble
sleeping they get anxious but if they
just really Crank That and estrogen's
down it'll go down more so that's why
you really got to just work with someone
and get this dialed and it has to be you
have to actively participate because
until you get to that point where it's
smooth sailing you're postmenopausal
which is the greatest thing ever but
until you get there things are going to
shift you're going to be adapting you're
going to be moving things around and
that's really be more based on your
symptoms and you just have to become
aware like I discovered you know I
couldn't recover from the gym and I
don't know if you've listened to
anything of Dr Vonda Wright She's an
amazing uh orthopedic surgeon who's
who's talking about the muscular
skeletal symptoms of
menopause and for me I would go to the
gym and go I can't recover couldn't
recover was always feeling a little
inflamed you know same workout couldn't
pull it off and and was on estrogen I
just had to kick it up a little bit so
that was both that the estrogen and the
testosterone was affecting the recovery
or you think it was more it
estrogen we all think of testosterone as
this muscle building anabolic uh
supplement for women or hormone for
women estrogen we need estrogen to build
muscle that is sort of paradoxical to
the common wisdom I think most people
would not think that estrogen is so
protective in that way for women yeah it
is I mean testosterone matters but
estrogen really matters amazing and your
goat what you found to be most effective
is a patch for estrogen specifically
easy so easy to use and is that a triest
or no it's
estrad wow yeah estrad I've been using
something do you know who Karen Martell
is um she makes a really great estral
estr cream but it's more for your skin
you know it's great for your skin okay
like that's the other place that women
will start to notice so it's just
topical it's not it's not going to be
enough to make a difference um I don't
think triest is used in EST back in the
day a lot of people were doing bias but
I think estral is really because estral
is so weak I mean it's a great thing to
use on your skin but it's not going to
really affect anything it's really Ester
dial is the big mover one wow yeah JJ
you're a wealth of knowledge part of
this how you've accumulated so much
knowledge as you've been in this space
for a long time but your network just
I'm just still here aming um we've
talked we've covered a lot of ground
from muscle protein resistance training
you know hormones um you've interviewed
a lot of people and have had many people
speak at your mind share Summit which is
amazing as well what are what's like the
biggest thing that you've learned you
know and I know that's a broad statement
but maybe or something that you've had
to unlearn throughout this journey where
you're like gosh I just wish more people
would you know I wish from the beginning
I'd been more critically
openminded and not thought in
absolutes um you know I that's where I'd
say I started I was like this is the way
I remember when I was on Dr Phil there
was this video where I said never never
never do cardio before
weights and now we know it's like some
people like that I'm like you know just
like do a faceted workout it's like
there are no absolutes like there just
there are very few absolutes in life and
for so much of this the most important
we we tend to miss the big picture cuz
we're so concerned about did we eat
within our fasting window did this break
the fast is that a dirty fast can I
should I eat before I work out do I need
to have that protein shake right after
like all this ridiculous stuff it's like
don't major in the minors you know if
you focus on the big things like really
looking at what you eat and getting
really clear on that and making sure
you're getting the protein making sure
you're getting the fiber and the
phytonutrients and then being well
hydrated and adding in those supplements
that that we tend to be deficient in
that will make a difference and then
moving more and then doing that
resistance training and adding in some
balance and adding in some velocity you
know and making sure you're recovering
well and restoring and then hanging out
with cool people yeah you know it's like
those are the things and I love uh I
love looking at all the stuff that Brian
Johnson's doing because here he is
spending $2 million a year to biohack
his body and all of a sudden you go and
what are the most important things
eating and sleeping and friends like
yeah the Basics right yeah they're not
sexy but boy they work right have you
met him no yeah I don't know him either
um yeah it's interesting you know the I
did that um the pheno age test through
uh true true Health Diagnostics I
haven't gotten the results back yet but
that's have you been looking at this
this epigenetic age so I think that Dr
Reika did that test on
me and I'm trying to remember because
there was one issue in it that was like
uh oh you know um I just listened to
Austin pearlmutter just did an amazing
longevity talk for big bold Health that
I just listened to where he was talking
about all the different ways because
they've been doing testing now to see
what Himalayan Tarter buckwheat can do
turns out it acts a lot like uh it's a
glp1 Agonist because uh of the bids and
yeah which is pretty pretty interesting
um but I've got to go back and look at I
really I haven't been focusing as much
on that because I look at this and
go right now I like to pick one thing at
a time and work on it yeah and I think
that that book Gary Keller wrote the one
thing is probably like the book I should
read every day just focus on the one
thing one for for a year it was all
meditation and everything I could do to
help with my adrenals right now I'm
really focused on BO2 Max nice that's
like that's why I was talking about okay
I got to be careful because I'll do
weight training all day long but I
really need to get in there and do power
and sprinting so I got a Sprint
treadmill at home nice yes cuz when I
saw that Meme I'm like that will not be
me I will be sprinting um but I think
you know if you look at all these things
work with someone prioritize out of out
of those big pillars of of fuel and
recover and move where's the first focus
focus there nail it build on it go to
the next thing you know that's smart I
do see I mean that's the beauty of the
internet is we can you know disseminate
all this information the downside is
there's so many you know new rabbits to
Chase and it's hard for people to stay
focus on one thing well and the other
downside is um and I was just having
this conversation with Jeff Bland
because I was like you know it's so
frustrating because I know if I took a
stand and said outrageous things that
I'd be super way more popular right and
I can't do it I can't do it I just can't
do it so you know that's the other
challenge with the Internet is quite
often the people that have the loudest
voices are saying the most ridiculous
things you know the most polarizing
things and you know the very clear
things that make a difference aren't so
sexy it it is the it's more the
controversial things that get the the
algorithms attention in the comments on
both sides that's wild but as you said I
think that um majoring in the majors and
and not focusing on on the minutia um
the foundations really move the pendulum
yeah and what's great is most of that
stuff doesn't cost a lot of money it
does take time
and I had a great Robert cran early on
he said if you don't have time make time
yeah and I mean that's there's just you
really have to you can't you can't hack
exercise you're not going to be able to
do it in five minutes a week that's
absolutely ridiculous yeah uh yeah I
have comments on that but we'll talk
about that later nor can you hack sleep
yes so you know that there is all this
poly physic sleep stuff and people like
getting up for two hours and then going
back to B yeah that seems crazy to me
yeah I remember hearing oh but that's
what we used to do we'd get up midnight
I'm like really huh I know how I sleep
best yeah so and it's not getting up at
midnight for 2 hours to eat and do
whatever and then go back to sleep so
yeah JJ really appreciate you coming on
the show and sharing great wisdom if if
folks want to connect with you what's
the best way to do that JJ virgin.com
and I've got well beyond 40 that you
were a guest on so that was a lot of fun
that was super cool that I ran into at
that event although we run into each
other now at a lot of events so it's
awesome appreciate your work and thanks
again for um offering you know clinical
rounds in these different conversations
a long time ago because you really
helped shape my mindset in nutrition uh
and my career development so thank you
for that well and thank you for then
taking that out there and doing amazing
things like your YouTube channel is
fabulous I absolutely love it so big fan
big subscriber everybody should
subscribe to that thank you so much
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