Rethinking Peace in a State of Permanent War (Excerpt) - Dr. Francoise Verges - November 2022

Summary

The transcript discusses the interconnectedness of various forms of violence in today's society, including violence against women, the plight of refugees, and the role of the military in perpetuating sexual violence. It highlights the structural elements of patriarchal capitalism that contribute to this violence and the precarity faced by many. The speaker calls for a reflection on these issues and the need to imagine a post-violent society that does not naturalize or celebrate violence. The transcript also touches on the impact of neoliberalism and the concept of 'valid bodies' in perpetuating inequality and exploitation, and the geopolitical constructs of cleanliness and dirtiness that further marginalize certain populations.

Takeaways

• 🌍 Global violence is interconnected, affecting various aspects of society including women's rights, child suicide in refugee camps, and military actions.
• 🔥 The perpetuation of violence is a structural element of patriarchal capitalism, which is not just about individual men but systemic issues.
• 💡 The recent mobilization against gender-based and sexual violence presents an opportunity to challenge the capitalist system that enables such violence.
• 🏃‍♂️ The ideal of the 'efficient body' in neoliberalism is embodied by the white man, who is seen as the epitome of physical strength and success.
• 🧹 Behind this ideal is the exploitation of women and other marginalized groups, who enable the success and comfort of the 'valid bodies'.
• 🌨️ The geopolitics of cleanliness and dirtiness are evident in how certain areas are kept clean and habitable while others are polluted and deemed uninhabitable.
• 🏘️ The concept of the 'zone of non-being' is used to describe areas where people are excluded and subjected to state violence, such as refugee camps and conflict zones.
• 🌊 The dichotomy of clean and dirty is also seen in the treatment of different populations, with some being seen as deserving of cleanliness and others as inherently dirty.
• 🤝 The struggle for progress must involve a reimagining of what it means to be successful and human, moving away from the current destructive and violent paradigms.
• 🌱 There is a need to repair past and present damages and to work towards a future that is not predicated on the continued violence and exploitation of marginalized groups.
• 🛑 The ideology of neoliberalism and its focus on individual success and resilience often overlooks the systemic issues and violence that contribute to inequality and suffering.

Q & A

How does the transcript link various forms of violence to the broader state of global violence?

The transcript connects violence against women, child suicide in refugee camps, military use of rape in conflicts, and the exile of millions due to war and economic climates. It suggests that these forms of violence are mutually reinforcing and are symptoms of a larger, structural issue within a violent society and patriarchal capitalism.

What is the significance of the recent mobilization against gender-based and sexual violence mentioned in the transcript?

The recent mobilization is significant as it offers a practical opportunity to challenge capitalism. It is not just about addressing gender-based violence but also about reflecting on violence as a structural element of patriarchal capitalism, rather than attributing it solely to men.

How does the transcript describe the concept of a post-violent society?

A post-violent society, as described in the transcript, is not one without conflict or contradiction, but one that does not naturalize violence, does not celebrate it, and does not make it the central theme of its narrative of power.

What is the 'valid body' in the context of neoliberalism as explained in the transcript?

In the context of neoliberalism, the 'valid body' is that of the white man who is in full possession of physical strength, normalized as masculine. This body is efficient, works out, eats organic food, and works long hours to achieve economic success.

How does the transcript connect the exploitation of women and girls to the comfort of the 'valid body'?

The transcript explains that the comfort and success of the 'valid body' are made possible by the exploitation of women and girls. This includes cleaners, nannies, sex workers, and others whose exhausted bodies enable the 'valid body' to excel.

What is the geopolitical significance of cleanliness and dirtiness as discussed in the transcript?

The transcript discusses how cleanliness and dirtiness are geopolitically constructed to reflect state violence. It gives examples of how certain areas are kept clean and attractive for tourism, while others, like Gaza, are polluted and seen as uninhabitable. This reflects a political choice and a fabrication of what is considered safe and enjoyable versus what is deemed dangerous and dirty.

How does the transcript relate the concept of 'zone of non-being' to the proliferation of refugee camps?

The 'zone of non-being' in the transcript refers to areas and populations that are deemed unworthy of rights or humanity. The proliferation of refugee camps, where people lose all their rights and are treated as non-human, is an example of such zones. These zones are multiplying globally and are a product of political choices.

What is the impact of hyper globalization and extractive logic on life expectancy and living conditions?

While hyper globalization and extractive logic have led to fewer deaths at birth and longer life expectancy, they have also resulted in more polluted air, water, and increased vulnerability to epidemics and pandemics. This means that although people live longer, they are exposed to more health risks and premature death.

How does the transcript describe the role of capitalism in perpetuating violence?

The transcript describes capitalism as weaponizing masculinity and producing extreme brutality. It suggests that capitalism measures staying alive by the capacity to instill death on others and that it gives meaning to an existence program for premature death. Violence is a tool and a display of power in this system.

What is the critique of neoliberalism's concept of success and individual responsibility as presented in the transcript?

The critique is that neoliberalism promotes an individualistic, patriarchal form of responsibility that erodes community and social support systems. It encourages an egoistic pursuit of excellence and views any vulnerability or sign of weakness as an obstacle. This ideology also bolsters conservative nationalism and excludes those who do not fit the mold of the 'successful' individual.

How does the transcript suggest we should think about progress?

The transcript suggests that traditional European progress, which is linear and future-oriented, is insufficient. Instead, we should consider multiple temporalities and work towards repairing past damage, addressing current destruction, and creating a different future. It calls for collective experimentation and imagination beyond the confines of systemic violence.

What is the importance of the right to rest as discussed in the transcript?

The right to rest is important as it combats the fatigue and exhaustion caused by neoliberal capitalism. The transcript suggests that having a good sleep, free from the stress of survival, can significantly improve one's quality of life. It argues against the discourse of resilience that expects individuals to constantly endure hardship and instead advocates for a society where people do not have to live in survival mode.

Outlines

00:00

🌍 Global Violence and Its Impact on Society

This paragraph discusses the interconnectedness of various forms of violence in today's world, including violence against women, child suicide in refugee camps, and the use of sexual violence in armed conflicts. It highlights the broader context of a global state of violence, exacerbated by war zones, economic, and climate conditions that render certain areas uninhabitable. The speaker emphasizes the need to address this comprehensively, rather than in isolated parts, and suggests that recent mobilizations against gender-based violence offer an opportunity to challenge the structural elements of patriarchal capitalism. The analysis aims to contribute to the reflection on violence as a structural issue rather than attributing it solely to individual or male behavior.

05:02

🏞️ The Geopolitics of Cleanliness and Dirtiness

The second paragraph delves into the geopolitical aspects of cleanliness and dirtiness, discussing how these concepts are used to create divisions and perpetuate state violence. It describes how certain areas are deemed unclean and undesirable, leading to the marginalization and exploitation of those living within them. The speaker also touches on the role of women in maintaining the appearance of cleanliness and order, often at the expense of their own well-being. The paragraph further explores the idea of 'non-being' zones, where people are stripped of their rights and dignity, and how these zones are proliferating globally. The speaker also discusses the impact of this division on tourism and the construction of safe and enjoyable spaces, which are often built on the exploitation of marginalized groups.

10:03

🛡️ Neoliberalism and the Culture of Violence

This paragraph examines the role of neoliberalism in fostering a culture of violence and the normalization of brutality. It criticizes the neoliberal ideal of the 'efficient body' and the pursuit of success at the expense of others. The speaker describes how this ideology perpetuates a system where success is tied to the exploitation and degradation of those deemed 'lesser', including women, trans individuals, and sex workers. The paragraph also discusses the concept of 'necropolitics', where the state and capitalism use violence as a tool to control and oppress. The speaker calls for a reimagining of society that does not rely on violence and exploitation, and instead values collective well-being and vulnerability.

15:06

🌿 The Irreparable Damages of Systemic Violence

The fourth paragraph focuses on the irreparable damages caused by systemic violence and the challenges of envisioning a post-war society. The speaker argues that the pervasiveness of violence in various forms—structural, direct, and psychological—makes the idea of a society free from violence seem illusory. The discussion includes the impact of hyperglobalization and extractive logic on life expectancy and the environment, as well as the collapse of health and education services. The speaker suggests that progress, as traditionally understood, is not linear and that repairing past damages, addressing current issues, and considering the future requires a multifaceted approach that includes resisting the economy of violence and embracing practices not based on market value.

20:07

🛌 The Right to Rest and the Resistance to Fatigue

The final paragraph discusses the concept of fatigue and exhaustion as a result of systemic violence and the relentless demands of neoliberalism. The speaker highlights the importance of rest and the right to not live in a state of constant survival. The discussion includes the critique of the resilience discourse, which often romanticizes the ability of individuals and communities to withstand hardship without addressing the root causes. The speaker calls for a reevaluation of the relentless pursuit of success and the need for self-care and collective action to combat the fatigue induced by capitalist exploitation.

Keywords

💡violence against women

Violence against women refers to the physical, sexual, or psychological harm inflicted upon women, often as a result of gender inequality and societal norms. In the context of the video, it is linked to the broader state of violence in the world, emphasizing that this issue cannot be addressed in isolation from other forms of violence.

💡refugee camps

Refugee camps are temporary settlements built to host people who have been forcibly displaced from their homes due to war, violence, or persecution. The video script discusses the harsh conditions in these camps, including the risk of suicide among children, to illustrate the devastating impact of conflict and displacement on vulnerable populations.

💡armed conflict

Armed conflict refers to the use of weapons and military force between groups, often leading to widespread violence, casualties, and displacement. The video script uses armed conflict as an example of how violence permeates various aspects of society, affecting not only those directly involved in the fighting but also civilians and refugees.

💡precarity

Precarity refers to a state of uncertainty, instability, and vulnerability, often resulting from economic, social, or political conditions. In the video, precarity is linked to the increasing instability caused by war zones, economic crises, and climate change, which render certain areas uninhabitable and contribute to the overall state of global violence.

💡neoliberalism

Neoliberalism is an economic and political philosophy that advocates for free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduced government intervention. The video script critiques neoliberalism for promoting an ideology that values efficiency and individual success over collective well-being, leading to increased inequality and exploitation.

💡geopolitical cleanliness and dirtiness

Geopolitical cleanliness and dirtiness refer to the way states and societies construct and enforce notions of purity and pollution, often to justify policies and actions that marginalize certain populations. In the video, this concept is used to discuss how certain areas are deemed 'uninhabitable' due to political choices, while others are maintained as 'safe' and 'clean' for certain groups.

💡camps

Camps, in the context of the video, refer to refugee or internment camps where people are confined, often under harsh conditions, due to conflict, persecution, or political decisions. The video discusses the proliferation of such camps as a manifestation of systemic violence and the disregard for human rights.

💡necropolitical project

The necropolitical project refers to the use of death, violence, and fear as tools of governance and control. In the video, this concept is used to describe how certain political systems and ideologies weaponize masculinity and promote consumerism, leading to an existence program that values life only in terms of its potential for exploitation and destruction.

💡resilience

Resilience is the ability to recover from or adapt to adverse conditions, challenges, or stress. In the video, the concept of resilience is critically examined, questioning the narrative that people, particularly marginalized groups, can simply 'bounce back' from systemic violence and oppression.

💡irreparability

Irreparability refers to the idea that some damages or harms are so profound that they cannot be fully repaired or undone. In the video, this concept is used to discuss the long-term and possibly irreversible impacts of systemic violence, exploitation, and environmental destruction.

💡capitalism

Capitalism is an economic system characterized by private ownership of the means of production, competition, and the pursuit of profit. The video script critiques capitalism for its role in creating and perpetuating systemic violence, inequality, and exploitation, particularly through its emphasis on individual success and consumerism.

💡vulnerability

Vulnerability refers to the state of being susceptible to harm or injury, often due to a lack of power or resources. In the video, vulnerability is discussed in the context of how certain ideologies and systems exploit and marginalize those who are most vulnerable, such as women, children, and refugees.

Highlights

Linking violence against women with global state of violence and other forms of oppression.

Children committing suicide in refugee camps as a result of violence and despair.

The rampant use of sexual violence by police and military in armed conflicts.

The exile of millions due to war zones and uninhabitable economic and climate conditions.

The interconnection of various forms of violence and their reinforcement of each other.

The role of patriarchal capitalism in perpetuating structural violence against women.

The importance of challenging capitalism as a means to address gender-based violence.

The concept of the 'efficient body' in neoliberalism as embodying the ideal of the white man.

The exploitation of women and girls enabling the comfort of the 'valid bodies'.

The geopolitical construction of cleanliness and dirtiness and its impact on women.

The political choices that render certain zones uninhabitable and the role of state violence.

The dichotomy of safe, pleasant places versus dangerous, dirty areas in societal construction.

The proliferation of 'zones of non-being' and their manifestation in various global contexts.

The loss of rights and dehumanization of refugees in camps and at borders.

The emergence of new forms of camps, particularly affecting women and children.

The impact of hyper-globalization and extractive logic on life expectancy and health.

The concept of necropolitical project of capitalism leading to premature death.

The role of systemic violence in shaping the current era of incredible violence and inequality.

The need to resist and imagine a postviolent society beyond the current destructive ideologies.

Transcripts

and so how do we link violence against

women form a global state of violence

with the fact that children commit

suicide in refugee camp with the fact

that police and military's massive

recourse to rape in him in armed

conflict everywhere and that is not just

the rape of women but also the rape of

men with the Exile of million of people

because of the multiplication of war

zone of Economic and climate condition

that have rendered zone of living un

inhabitable go with a Relentless

increase of precarity can we imagine

addressing only part of this violence

without considering this larger state of

permanent War can we continue not to see

that all this form of violence mutually

reinforce one another and that those

more directly affect women are the

result of an extremely violent

Society the recent mobilization against

gender based and seexual viance offer a

thir and practical opportunity today

that of making this violent the very

terrain on which to challenge

capitalism my analysis though but does

not offer solution though for the

eradication of violence but H to

contribute to the reflection on violence

as a structural element of patriarchal

capitalism rather than specifically male

I want us to imagine a post violent

Society not a society without conflict

and contradiction but the society that

does not naturalize violence that does

not celebrate it that does not make it

the central theme of its Narrative of

power in neoliberalism the efficient

body is that of the white man in full

possession of physical strengths

normaliz as masculine he gets up early

he goes jogging he eats organic food and

without counting his our works you know

to achieve economic success you know

what we see the Ser with the G at like

1:00 a.m. to a.m. because they can work

you know lots that's also the fact of

success you know that the idea of like

being able to work from Monday to

Sunday what this representation of the

valid body act is that its efficiency is

made possible by the work of

rationalized body as I said the cleaning

the woman who clean the gym the office

the restaurant he fixes appointment in

the hotel where he HS with his friends

lovers or sex workers the train of the

planet Tech the glassroom it teach in

the house he goes home to his family all

these women all the whose body are

exhausted to so that is can Excel ral's

men are his world security guard his

chauffeur the people of the global s

provide him and is famili with the

object of their confort the valid bodies

protected by the whole hor of police

measure which are invisible to for their

own natural eyes guarantee his

protection geted Community surveillance

camera police presence and so forth as

for the white Bourgeois woman she more

often than not buys her Comfort thanks

to the exploitation of wom and girls in

the global source and really girls the

fast fashion clothes that enables her to

keep up with the latest Trend her

children Nanny the cleaning woman would

clean the world she move in the

exploited nurses the sex workers will

cater to a husband or companion shut

away in their Enclave the valid body

exclude body perceive as threatening who

only enter the world

under authorization and I want just to

head on this question of geopolitic of

cleanliness and dirtiness and the fact

that women the woman would clean also

other form of State violence you know to

to operate to draw that line between

cleanness and and cleanliness and we can

think of course in Brazil where the you

know where the garbages pick up and not

pick up and I'm sure in Lebanon you have

a lot to say about that but we can also

think about Palestine you know like

Israel and where you know where drum in

polluted uh garbage on Gaza so the Gaza

Beach was dirty and polluted and this

could be constructed with a very clean

Beach of T Aviv so you had a clean

Mediterranean you know for for Fun and

Sun and you had a dirty mediterran you

know inhabited by brown and black body

so black brown Mediterranean versus you

know white clean mediterrane so that's

is really looking for me as how the

world is made uninhabitable is not just

you know like it's really absolutely

fabricated it's a state it's a choice

it's political choice you know and it's

very important in also in the discourse

even for tourism of course it's it's you

know for economic a lot of things you

know where you going to have a cafe when

you're going to this is very fun to be

you know like on the beach and have you

know the and have a cafe all this

construction of what is a safe place the

nice place the nice the place to enjoy

the place you know that

if is connected to the image that goes

with the Sea and the fun and the place

we are dangerous dirty and the constant

fabrication of image of that the

constant fabrication of you know pile of

dump on the one hand with children you

know look looking through them and on

the other side you know children playing

Parks green Parks you know with like

butterfly around so this is constant

construction and it's every day in

newspaper in magazine that construction

of kind dirty and the word that in in

which you can breathe and the word it

don't go because it will be irrespirable

unbreathable and that is a constant and

we saw it even as I say even more with

covid-19

right so it's a it's a word where the

zone of non- beinging proliferate the

zone you know fabricating as unclean and

um it was from F who call that you know

the the the Z of

nonbeing he wrote in a black skin white

mask you know and for him it was hell

you say you know like that was the Z of

Z being it is the Zone where the

colonizer Lo the colonizing it's a dis

mining you know space that separate the

zone of being from the zone of non-being

and and this does not belong you know to

the Past it's with us now being multiply

around the world is no longer in the

colony you know at the time it's in the

C I mean the world of Camp it's

multiplying it's everywhere it's in

Europe it's in the Americas it's in

Africa in the Middle East we saw it last

year uh on 21 at the Belarus Poland

border you know when there were thousand

of Syrian refugee Afghan Refugee CAU

between the belar police and the Poland

police in freezing temperature and being

you know those with very cold water

wering in the forest in absolutely sub

freezing temperature dying of cold in

the forest and this is was called by the

government of Poland the I War so

Refugee the bodies of of refugee were

transformed into you know like a threat

of an hybrid War so the it was no longer

human being it was in zone of one being

absolutely built and this Camp are

proliferating we can talk of of course

in Ukraine in Syria in Palestine you

know in France on the US Mexico border

and so on and these people lose all

their rights we are no longer even in

the stateless situation with is in

situation in which you know nobody and

I've been thinking and I I have not

fully be able to analy that I'm thinking

also about the camp where the woman who

were the wives of the Isis uh uh Soldier

are and nobody want them they are

absolutely in a no no no no their

country don't want them back the

children are absolutely in limbo and

this is absolutely it's not really like

the refugee camp it's another it's a new

form of camp that only woman and

children and this women nobody want them

so what is being created that there you

know and it's practically out of really

you The View on top of it it's Isis so

you know let's not talk about it so what

is being created that in that da of

non-being

um so um

sorry so for for me it was you know all

this uh how this is being constructed

how you know this geography uh is

constructed of the world that is

uninhabitable and the world that is

inhabitable and that the fact that those

who leave who want to free the

uninhabitable world cannot arrive in you

know they are stop and and of course

even they die in the mediterrane or the

or the channel or you know everywhere on

with the

die so um if if this if we iscribe to

the society that sorry to the idea that

Society are inevitably shied by violence

it become then

totally

illusory uh sorry to imagine a postwar

society it is not so much that systemic

violence is new as I say you know the

longest story that we we know about it

but hyper globalization and the

exacerbation of the extractive logic

have had an extremely negative impact on

the life expectancy although people die

less at Birth every day today on the

planet and live longer in in the global

s they breathe more polluted air drink

more polled water and are more often

victim to epidemic pandemic debt the

collapse of Heth and education services

so the question of progress to go back

to the court of of FL is like there is

progress on the one hand because less

people die at Birth you know more

children can survive their birth but in

fact they are condemned to premature

death there is a progress and the more

progress that we obtain also through

struggled a lot of them who struggled

are in fact absolutely constantly slowed

down by new form of barbarism if we want

to go back to F

quot so brute cruel violence is a form

of government a regime of existence in

this necro empowerment the injunction to

AER consumerism produce an extreme

brutality Staying Alive is measured by

the capacity to instill death on other G

capitalism weaponize masculinity to

serve his necropolitical project

violence give meaning to an existence

program for premature

death it allows people to exist even for

a short moment mostly men it all men to

exist having access to what has become

the proof of

existence here woman trans people queer

people male and female sex workers are

simply bodies to rape traffic torture

and kill all these killable body are

feminized in the sense that they are put

at the Disposable as the disposal of

domination babies children teenager

adult elderly no age group sex or gender

escape this economy murder is now

conceived as a transaction extreme

violence as a legitimate tool torture as

an ultra profitable exercise and Display

of

Power the psychic life of neol

liberalism is based on the notion that

success is strictly once one making that

egotism is the motor of Excellence of we

and rent you know the famous I will not

call her a philosopher but famous writer

absolutely admir by all you know

neoliberal American larly ra over there

provided this ideology sorry provided

this ideology provided the philosophy to

this Phil to this ideology sorry

any vulnerability or sign of weakness is

to be eradicated as an obstacle on the

path of talented and motivated people

exclusive white men in her philosophy

this ideology encouraged an entirely

individual patriarchal form of

responsibility and bolstered

conservative nationalism that is also

patriarchal the weak Arabi become part

of the new civilizing Mission the target

of a paternalistic philanthropy

determined to prevent any emergence of a

new conception of inhabiting the world

of being human in the world the

vulnerable are relegated to contemporary

zone of nonbeing that vast extraordinary

sterile and arid region and an utterly

naked deity where an authentic empal can

be born F or

Ro this is where the use of violence

Prevail in which politic conit with

murder and Extinction become the norm

while neoliberalism accus individual of

their own failure the new form of Neo

fascism looks for scap go but the twoed

ideology looks in denying the role of

the state and capitalism institutional

violence the analysis of the practice of

dis disiz and vulnerabil isation

demonstrate that we inevitably need to

think and act along several

temporalities repairing past politic of

dis imization including the very recent

past and their contemporary and emerging

for form with impact we can already

measure so form of entangled temporality

of working with the past you know like

repairing the past is not yet repair

this accumulation of damage and

Prejudice repairing the the present as

we see it being you know as as as we

speak today as we sit in this room today

being destroyed and the future that is

already future less if this continue

this way so how do we work through this

temporal and how this will wethink

progress in the positive sense by

thinking of this different temporality

because European progress was always

linear we always go you know towards the

kingdom to

come this mean discovering and

collectively experimenting people

practice of imagination and de

vulnerabil isation we do not have an

elsewhere completely protected for

systemic violence but we do have a map

of forline and testices poorly guarded

OPAC spaces in which to deploy practices

that are not funded on calculation and

market value this is to say that we need

to resist an entire economy exis in

which the paging and plundering is

declined in many more ways that one it's

an unprecedent cor Corporal destruction

the trafficking and commercialization of

what the anybody can offer push to the

extreme

limit but we also must uh recognize a

seductive power of such rhetoric even

for individual and group victim to this

ideology being excluded from power does

not necessarily word of its

spell if there are lesson to be learned

from the systemic violence that preceded

the politic of lockdown decreed in early

2020 around the world and from the

global deterioration of r gender sex age

and class inequality and injustices it

is that we are living in an era in which

it is impossible to escape the

unleashing or incredible violence

produced by greed cupidity and power

unless we organize alongside we those

who have nothing to lose let's not be

surprised then by the alliance between

progress when the latter is strictly

technological or being Advanced to prove

superiority of class always and

barbarism let's not be surprised by this

Alliance let's learn to live with the

idea of the irreparable without falling

you know withs Doom into doom and

despair let's learn to live with loss

and then still be you know dreaming to

have joy thank

you thank you fras that was time and

there's a lot there it's

um maybe I can make a comment and then

open to questions maybe people can just

uh you know take a minute to think about

a question or so on and then we will

take a round of questions but um so I

think this idea that you're proposing of

this irreparability is quite you know

it's quite unique in a sense in terms of

usually when people talk about

capitalism in terms of the models of

extraction uh there's generally kind of

what comes out of that is this idea that

somehow uh a repair is possible Right a

restitution is possible that would

somehow um um be an answer or be a way

towards an answer and and this notion of

irreparability that you propose is

really I think very valuable uh as a

more of a comment than but just to kind

of maybe you know to kind of

contextualize it in terms of the usual

model of dealing with extraction

extraction models of extraction or

accumulation based on you know the same

extraction from the land is the same as

the extraction of living labor from the

bodies it's the same as this kind of

Equalization of all these forms of

violence and you're saying you know

you're saying obviously that there are

multi-layers of violence that there's

systemic violence there's these moments

of violence there's structural violence

right there's and there are multiple

sites on which violence is played out

and we can also not ignore the body the

psyche right these these places of again

what you describe this this this state

of fatigue right or uh I mean you know

we're in a country where people tried

for quite some time to try to bring

about a change right uh and in a place

where you know there was a lot of

violence exercised on the population and

the people are tired you know when

people say how do people live in these

conditions you think you know you have

no water no electricity you can't walk

in the streets you can't get your

medicine you know everything all the

conditions of existence are not there

right and people are just frantically

running around to make them possible not

everybody equally obviously so uh so the

question here is you know this idea of

fatigue or or exhaustion I think it's a

very valuable point because we spend so

much time thinking about the way that

neoliberalism or capitalism produces

desires right and kind of how do you say

cannibalizes forms of enjoyment you know

the this hyper consumer life this I

don't know uh everybody wanting to

become a brand right this thing right uh

this the influencers the creatives this

whole thing this model right and I think

it's it's kind of very um you know it's

sobering to also think that it's not

just the production of desires but it's

also this kind of you know this tiring

out this you know this kind of state of

fatigue and how does one deal with

battle fatigue right and I I really

think you these Concepts you propose are

absolutely C

uh for us to consider I just these are

comments not really questions honestly I

mean obviously I'm a fan but uh I will

just say something I I noticed you know

with um um the reading you know

testimony for refug or talking with them

they how they tell you the the when the

day they they arrive in a place where

they feel safe and they can take a hot

shower and sleep in a real bed does not

mean like could you know whatever but

with clean it totally transformed

their sleep it's not the same if not

that they have not slept before but they

don't sleep the same way so there is for

me the right to rest as a you know like

as a as a right that we should fight for

against effectively that fatigue there

is something about

sleeping um having a good sleep we know

that we don't when don't sleep well we

are more tired and more irritable and

more also than fragile

so that what I mean by exhaustion is

like really getting into like deeply you

know and also fighting against the reg

the discourse of

resilience you know like you know like

the human being are resilient and you

know like people this is you know the

leban joke we all live this because

we're resilient we can handle it right I

mean this is obviously not what you're

saying no than yeah no I'm taking about

the residence used by NGS or state you

know like in a way celebrating the

residence of indigenous people or

whatever they they have survived through

absolutely terrible things and so in a

way we will continue to you know to have

terrible things you know because they

survive so they can survive they survive

5,000 years so you know they could

survive no no we have the right not to

live in survival so that's also and also

what I was thinking when you are talking

there was

also again you know like

um to count counter the idea of fatigue

against St that people could still feel

constant people feel tired constantly

people are tired people tell you know

that workers tell you that they go home

they just want to sleep they don't want

you know they have no time to enjoy to

read or whatever so it's a constant

really something on on the mental and

bodily things and it's um and how

capitalism will also propose self-help

yes you know that uh uh compartmental

psychology go on yourself do some medit

ation do some yoga before going to the

factory and you will you know you will

go I mean all this kind of how they are

proliferating you know itat well

whatever even though you don't have the

means to do that but all this constant

constant uh proposal and this absolutely

yoga place everywhere you know like you

you even have a yoga Day in India you

know like in the place where you have

the total fascism of the pgp so all this

you know it's it's like you know more

and this construction so of Desire no

longer but of place no but learn to

meditate learn to breathe you know like

like that you know like so now

everywhere it's in everywhere any any

Journal whatever on the radio all this

constant

advice to get better in a world that in

fact is mean in the meantime killing you

killing you you know there are more

dises going people are more you know

there will be more cancer more you it's

already there so there is a there is a

um how can I say it's not just the

pandemic there is a lot you know the the

russal capitalism is killing us slowly

or not slowly depending of our you know

life condition of living but nonetheless

so it's no longer there are more disase

than I mean not only the old disease

coming back like corera in your country

or in it for instance but even the new

form the fact that as I say more

children are are born with res

respiratory disease that going to make

them not having a full life when you

don't breathe when your lungs are like

small you know you don't have the same

life like that you know your

grandparents you are more prone to a lot

of disease to you know like the the

little flu it's more it's worse for you

I mean so it's a constant production of

the very daily little things that for me

is you know like not the big declaration

about capitalism it's the way in which

it's

and it it feed on on that life and the

fact that you know they are constantly

constantly um fabricating uh people that

that have to do some work otherwi they

die