Linda Raschke on Having an Edge in Trading and the Importance of Data

Summary

In this insightful interview, Jason Shapiro speaks with trading legend Linda Bradford Rashki about the importance of having an edge in the trading market and the significance of data analysis. Linda shares wisdom from her book 'Trading Sardines', emphasizing the need for discipline, the learning curve of trading styles, and the balance between systematic approaches and experience. She also discusses the challenges faced by new traders and the value of understanding market nuances through trial and error. The conversation touches on the psychological aspects of trading, the impact of technology on market dynamics, and the concept of giving back and staying humble in the world of finance.

Takeaways

• 📚 Linda Rashke shares her wisdom in 'Trading Sardines', offering market insights and life advice.
• 🎯 Having an edge in trading is crucial, derived from a statistical advantage, experience, or unique opportunities.
• 🔄 Successful trading requires consistent application of one's edge, with a focus on the long-term and money management.
• 🔍 Developing a trading edge takes time, experimentation, and understanding of various market strategies.
• 📉 Market dynamics are ever-changing, making adaptability and continuous learning key to maintaining an edge.
• 🖥️ Technological advancements and data access have transformed trading, requiring new skills and approaches.
• 📈 Understanding market trends and sentiment is essential, but technical analysis remains a primary decision-making tool.
• 👩‍💼 Personal trading discipline and a well-defined process are vital for managing risk and capitalizing on opportunities.
• 📊 Record-keeping and statistical analysis play a crucial role in refining trading strategies and understanding market behaviors.
• 🤝 Giving back and maintaining humility are fundamental values that contribute to personal and professional growth.

Q & A

What does Linda Bradford Rashki believe is essential for successful trading over time?

Linda Bradford Rashki believes that having an edge is essential for successful trading over time. This edge could come from various sources such as modeling, arbitrage opportunities, or experience. She emphasizes the importance of applying this edge consistently and managing risk through a robust money management strategy.

How does Linda describe her trading philosophy in her book 'Trading Sardines'?

In her book 'Trading Sardines', Linda describes her trading philosophy as one that incorporates market wisdom, life wisdom, and personal stories from her experiences in trading and love. She emphasizes the importance of having an edge, managing risks, and applying a systematic approach to trading while also incorporating lessons from personal experiences.

What advice does Linda give to new traders regarding their trading style?

Linda advises new traders to explore different trading styles to find what works for them. She compares it to trying on hats, suggesting that they might need to try various styles such as spreads, options, season programs, or Commitment of Traders reports before finding the right fit. She also emphasizes the importance of gaining experience and capital preservation during this exploration period.

How does Linda view the role of discipline in trading?

Linda views discipline as the single most important aspect of trading. She believes that even with the greatest trading system, a lack of discipline can lead to failure. She stresses the importance of sticking to a proven process and not deviating from it due to emotions or short-term market fluctuations.

What is Linda's perspective on the use of technology and AI in trading?

Linda acknowledges the role of technology and AI in trading but also points out their limitations. She notes that AI systems are only as good as the data they are trained on and that they may not be able to adapt to new market conditions as effectively as a seasoned trader with a keen understanding of market dynamics.

How does Linda approach the concept of 'edge' in trading?

Linda views the concept of 'edge' as something that needs to be durable and robust, meaning it should hold up over time. She warns against strategies that may become less effective as more people discover and exploit them. She also notes that while some trading strategies may have a short half-life, others, like chart formations, can persist with lower frequency but still offer trading opportunities.

What is Linda's take on the importance of trial and error in developing a trading methodology?

Linda believes that trial and error are crucial in developing a successful trading methodology. She compares this process to scientific discovery, where much of what we've learned has come through trial and error, and sometimes, serendipitous discoveries. She emphasizes that a combination of trial and error, pattern recognition, and understanding the limitations of various tools and methodologies is key to developing a lasting trading approach.

How does Linda address the psychological aspect of trading?

Linda addresses the psychological aspect of trading by emphasizing the need to desensitize oneself to the emotions associated with trading and to develop a thick skin. She notes that until traders learn to manage their emotions effectively, they will be their own worst enemy in the markets. She also highlights the importance of understanding oneself and one's risk tolerance in the context of trading.

What is Linda's view on the role of experience in trading?

Linda believes that experience plays a vital role in trading. She suggests that it can take a minimum of three to five years to learn the nuances of different trading styles and to gain the necessary experience to make informed decisions. She also mentions that experience helps in understanding market dynamics and in developing an edge that can be leveraged for successful trading.

How does Linda approach the concept of market skew and its relevance to trading?

Linda views market skew, or the fat tails in market behavior, as a critical aspect of trading. She believes that understanding and recognizing these skews can offer significant trading opportunities. She argues that while backtesting can provide an initial idea of a strategy's effectiveness, it can miss the nuances of these skews, which are essential for identifying potential edges in the market.

What advice does Linda give about trading during market extremes?

Linda advises traders to position themselves in the direction of the aberration when markets move beyond their historical boundaries. She believes there is a strong reason behind such market movements and that traders should go with the market's direction rather than against it when it comes to extreme market behavior.

Outlines

00:00

📌 Introduction and Discussion on Trading Edge

The paragraph introduces an interview with Linda Bradford Rashki, a renowned figure in trading and money management. Jason Shapiro begins by mentioning Linda's book, 'Trading Sardines', which he found insightful and enjoyable. The conversation quickly delves into the importance of having an edge in trading, emphasizing the necessity of a statistical advantage or a unique approach that can be applied consistently over time. Linda shares her experiences and stresses the significance of money management, experience, and the iterative process of learning from various trading styles, which can take several years.

05:01

🌐 Market Nuances and the Evolution of Trading

Linda discusses her early experiences trading on the floor of the Pacific Coast Stock Exchange, highlighting the differences between past and present market conditions. She talks about the Wild Frontier-like atmosphere of the equity options market in the absence of computers and the arbitrage opportunities that emerged. Linda also touches on the concept of a trading edge having a 'half-life', meaning its effectiveness can diminish over time as more people discover and exploit it. The conversation then shifts to the importance of developing a durable and robust trading methodology through trial and error, and the role of discipline in managing emotions and staying in the game.

10:01

📈 The Role of Market Skew and Fat Tails

In this segment, Linda elaborates on the concept of market skew and fat tails, explaining that these elements offer the potential for significant profit. She argues that while backtesting can provide a general idea of a trading strategy's effectiveness, it can also obscure the skew and fine nuances that are crucial for trading success. Linda also discusses the importance of recognizing and capitalizing on market relationships when they are out of line, as this can signal significant opportunities. She references her book 'Street Smarts' and emphasizes that while technical skills are valuable, they are not as critical as understanding market dynamics and having the right mindset for trading.

15:03

🛠️ Trading Discipline and Process

Linda and Jason discuss the critical nature of discipline in trading. Linda believes that discipline is the most important aspect of trading success, regardless of the trading system used. She shares her views on the importance of sticking to a process and the pitfalls of deviating from it. The conversation also touches on the challenges faced by traders who do not develop their own systems, as they lack the necessary confidence to adhere to them. Linda advocates for traders to have their own methods and to be patient in waiting for high-probability opportunities.

20:05

🌪️ Trading in the Direction of Aberration

Linda emphasizes the importance of trading in the direction of aberrations, or significant market movements beyond historical boundaries. She believes that such movements indicate a strong underlying reason and present a trading opportunity. Linda shares an example from her experience with seasonal patterns and how failed seasonals can often lead to larger trades in the opposite direction. The conversation highlights the importance of not being stubborn and recognizing when a trading strategy or seasonal pattern is no longer effective.

25:05

💡 Adapting to Market Changes and Personal Trading Experiences

Linda shares her personal journey in trading, from equity options to various other markets. She explains her preference for currency futures over Forex and her reasons for focusing primarily on the most liquid domestic futures markets. Linda also discusses the evolution of her trading approach over the years, including her transition from strategic trading to more reactive and adaptive styles. The conversation underscores the importance of continuous learning and adapting to changing market conditions.

30:06

📊 Measuring Market Sentiment and Capitalizing on Opportunities

Linda and Jason discuss the importance of gauging market sentiment and identifying excess cash on the sidelines. Linda explains that while she primarily relies on technical analysis, she also considers sentiment readings and data from money market funds as part of her holistic approach. The conversation also touches on the role of AI programs in incorporating sentiment data and the challenge of dealing with the sensory stimulation and information overload present in today's trading environment.

35:07

🌟 The Importance of Giving and Staying Humble

In the concluding segment, Linda reflects on the wisdom she has gained over her trading career, emphasizing the importance of giving and maintaining humility. She shares a powerful quote from her book, highlighting the idea that everything given will return tenfold. Linda discusses the value of gratitude, recognizing one's blessings, and the impact of a positive mindset on trading success and overall life satisfaction. The conversation ends with Linda sharing her website for her book and expressing her philosophy on life and trading.

Keywords

💡Trading

Trading refers to the act of buying, selling, or exchanging financial instruments such as stocks, bonds, or currencies with the goal of making a profit. In the context of the video, trading is the central theme, with the interview focusing on strategies, the importance of having an edge in the market, and the psychological aspects of trading. Linda Bradford Rashke, the guest, shares her experiences and wisdom in trading, emphasizing the need for discipline, patience, and a systematic approach to capitalizing on market opportunities.

💡Edge

In trading, having an 'edge' refers to a competitive advantage or a unique approach that allows a trader to consistently outperform the market. The video discusses the necessity of developing and maintaining an edge through experience, knowledge, and effective strategies. Linda Bradford Rashke explains that an edge could come from various sources, such as understanding market patterns, exploiting arbitrage opportunities, or leveraging data to make informed decisions. She also stresses that an edge must be durable and robust, capable of withstanding market changes over time.

💡Data

Data in the context of the video refers to the information and statistics that traders use to analyze market trends and make informed trading decisions. Linda Bradford Rashke highlights the importance of data in trading, as it helps traders identify patterns, gauge market sentiment, and predict potential movements. The use of data is crucial for developing an edge in trading, as it allows traders to backtest strategies, measure performance, and adjust their approaches accordingly.

💡Money Management

Money management is the process of controlling and allocating financial resources, particularly in the context of trading and investing. In the video, Linda Bradford Rashke discusses the importance of having a sound money management strategy to protect and grow one's capital. This includes setting stop-loss orders, determining position sizes, and ensuring that the trader's psychology does not interfere with rational decision-making. Effective money management is crucial for long-term success in trading, as it helps mitigate risks and ensures that losses are kept within acceptable limits.

💡Psychology

Psychology in the context of the video pertains to the mental and emotional aspects that influence trading decisions. Linda Bradford Rashke emphasizes that understanding and controlling one's emotions is critical in trading, as fear, greed, and other psychological factors can lead to impulsive decisions and poor risk management. She suggests that discipline and a systematic approach to trading can help traders overcome these psychological biases and maintain a rational perspective in the face of market volatility.

💡Discipline

Discipline is the ability to follow a set of rules or a strategy consistently, especially in the face of temptation or adversity. In the video, Linda Bradford Rashke stresses that discipline is the most important aspect of successful trading. It involves sticking to a proven strategy, managing risks appropriately, and avoiding the trap of emotional decision-making. She suggests that even with the best trading system, a lack of discipline can lead to poor outcomes and ultimately, failure in the markets.

💡Market Report

A market report is a comprehensive analysis or summary of the performance and trends of financial markets. In the context of the video, Jason Shapiro hosts the 'Crowd and Market Report' where he interviews experts like Linda Bradford Rashke to provide insights and analysis on market conditions. The report serves as a resource for traders and investors to gain a deeper understanding of market dynamics and make informed decisions based on expert opinions and data-driven research.

💡Book - Trading Sardines

The book 'Trading Sardines' is authored by Linda Bradford Rashke and is mentioned in the video as a resource for those interested in trading. The book is described as an easy read that offers wisdom on market and trading strategies, as well as life lessons and personal stories. It is recommended for anyone looking to gain insights into the world of trading and understand the principles of successful money management. The book serves as a testament to Linda's experience and expertise in the trading industry.

💡Experience

Experience in the context of the video refers to the practical knowledge and skills gained through involvement in trading over a period of time. Linda Bradford Rashke emphasizes that developing experience is crucial for traders to refine their strategies, understand market nuances, and learn to manage risks effectively. She suggests that it takes a minimum of three to five years for new traders to gain the necessary experience and develop a consistent edge in the market.

💡Trial and Error

Trial and error is a method of learning through experimentation, where one tries different approaches and learns from the outcomes, particularly the mistakes. In the video, Linda Bradford Rashke discusses trial and error as an essential part of developing a trading edge. It involves testing different strategies, learning from both successful and unsuccessful trades, and continuously refining one's approach based on the results. This process is crucial for traders to discover what works best for them and to adapt to the ever-changing market conditions.

Highlights

Linda Bradford Rashki, a legend in trading and money management, shares insights on having an edge in trading and the importance of data.

Jason Shapiro interviews Linda Rashki about trading, money management, and the application of experience and data in making informed decisions in the market.

Linda emphasizes the necessity of having a statistical edge in trading, which can come from modeling, arbitrage opportunities, or experience.

The importance of money management algorithms is discussed as a critical component of successful trading.

Linda's book 'Trading Sardines' is recommended for its easy readability and sharing of market wisdom, life wisdom, and personal stories.

The concept of gaining experience in trading is likened to trying on different hats to find the right style that works for an individual.

Linda shares her journey from trading equity options on the Pacific coast Stock Exchange to developing a durable and robust trading methodology.

The idea of 'half-life' of trading systems is introduced, where strategies can lose effectiveness over time as more people discover and utilize them.

Linda discusses the importance of discipline in trading, stating it as the single most important aspect regardless of the trading style.

The conversation touches on the idea of trading in the direction of aberrations, capitalizing on market movements that go beyond historical boundaries.

Linda shares her perspective on the evolution of her trading approach over the years, from equity options to focusing on the most liquid domestic futures markets.

The interview highlights the importance of developing one's own trading system rather than relying on others', to build confidence and maintain discipline.

Linda and Jason discuss the psychological aspect of trading, acknowledging the emotional challenges and the need for mental fortitude in the markets.

The conversation emphasizes the value of record-keeping and statistics in tracking performance and making improvements in trading strategies.

Linda's advice for new traders includes starting with a short-term horizon, using simple indicators, and desensitizing oneself to the stress of trading.

The interview concludes with Linda's philosophy on life and trading, emphasizing the importance of giving, staying humble, and maintaining a positive mindset.

Transcripts

[Music]

welcome to CMR interviews by Jason

Shapiro in today's episode Jason

interviews Linda rashy on having an edge

in trading and the importance of data to

learn more about Jason and Linda check

the episode notes in the

description Hello today's March 26 2024

I'm Jason Shapiro with crowd andm

marketreport tocom today I have the

pleasure um of welcoming Linda Bradford

rashki who is a legend in the trading

and money management business um and we

are going to have a conversation about

trading and money management and and

anything else that uh falls into line

here um I will start by saying before I

did this interview uh Linda was nice

enough to mail me her book which is this

thing right here it's called trading

sardines and um I read it and it was

awesome because it was such an easy read

uh she shared a lot of market and

trading wisdom as well is a lot of Life

wisdom and some really fun stories about

love life and trading um and I would

recommend it to anybody so on that note

uh Linda welcome and thanks for joining

thank you for having me Jason it's a

real honor so I usually um start with

this very simple question um how do we

make money over time trading the market

let's just open up the whole can of

worms right off the bat how do we make

money you know that's what we want to

know right that's what we want know you

have to have some type of Edge that

would be obvious in any game that you

play be it Bridge or gambling or the

markets you need to have some type of

statistical Edge that may came from

modeling or it may come from an early

Arbitrage opportunity with the new

Emerging Markets it might come from

experience even experience is a form of

an edge but you do have to have some

sort of Edge and then you need to apply

that consistently so over time it's just

a big number game if I make 1,000 trades

and I have n Edge I will have a positive

expectation and the more trades you can

make with that type of thesis uh the

closer you come to a guaranteed profit

and of course you always need to have

that little money management algorithm

in the background um but I think that uh

you know you can either be very

systematic and have it hardcoded in your

brain or your uh system or um just

through experience you might know how to

manage the bottom line a little bit more

appropriately so you know I think that

the initial um problem is getting that

experience or when people first start

trading out uh it's like trying on hats

you know you have to try this style is

it going to work for you maybe you try

that for 3 months you know maybe we try

uh spreading maybe we try options maybe

we try season programs maybe we try

commitment of Traders reports you know

but you can't um you can't arrive and

start to learn the nuances of something

until you have explored many different

styles if you are new to the markets and

that whole process can take uh a minimum

of three to five years so just like

anything it's like playing um you know

poker and capital preservation until you

get that experience under your belt

excellent advice see mean I can't just

start trading today and start making

money right away and go for you know if

you bought those gamestock options a

couple years ago you never know huh did

you see that movie by the way oh I'm not

supposed to ask you questions it was fun

I did not see D money yeah I watched it

in

livetime yes yes which I thought was was

enough um but maybe was the movie good

maybe I should see it I don't know you

should for history's sake it wouldn't

make sense if you weren't to trade but

you know you'll get it I didn't see that

movie about the penny stocks with

Leonard DiCaprio for a lot of years

because uh I knew people when I was in

college that were in the penny stock

game and and the whole thing made me

sick Wolf of Wall Street yeah so I

refused to watch that movie for many

years and then once I did it was

actually yeah it was actually hilarious

so now I watch it all the time but um

sometimes I just don't want to watch

something that I I kind of lived in in

in lifetime anyway um okay so you need

to have an egg Edge and to develop an

edge is going to take you time um what

are the things we're looking for in that

edge and I'm not telling I don't need

you to tell me oh well the edges you

trade when the five day moving average

crosses the 25 day what do we need to

look for in that a perfect world okay

I'll start off with a perfect world and

then we'll deviate from there in a

perfect world you need something that's

durable and robust okay in other words

not

optimized um you know will hold up over

time and for example with my trading

career when I started off trading I was

in the floor and Equity options on the

Pacific coast Stock Exchange and it was

a little bit like the Wild Frontier we

did not have computers we didn't have

the uh you know the programs that keep

all the options in line so there was a

lot of lucrative opportunity for those

first couple years until it slowly got

armed out and everything got

computerized but um you know I've seen

that time and time again with um many

things in the markets it's uh you find

something and if you find it other

people can find it as well and

eventually has what we'll call a

halflife you know with a system uh a

halflife and it'll start to lose its

Effectiveness now that's not true with

everything for example you could take

chart formations a gorgeous weekly chart

formation which now has a lower

frequency of occurrence so everything's

a tradeoff on the flip side of that as

the mark have become more crowded with

different Market participants you have

an increase in the noise level which

means an increase in false breakouts and

so forth so you know everything's this

sort of balancing act and and tradeoff

But ultimately you do want a style I

will say an approach or a methodology

that will uh last over time and to

develop that style and that methodology

it seems like Char and error is really

the best way to go you know trial and

error goes a long ways that's with you

know look at uh medicine and

biochemistry and physics you know so

much of what we've learned through uh

Through the Ages has been trial and

error and then freak chance you stumble

across something like penicillin you

know so there is a little bit of that

but there's also more than that there's

uh some Savvy with pattern recognition

there's some Savvy as to what we can do

what we cannot do for example with

neural networks or artificial

intelligence which is so in Vogue right

now they're only as good as what we

train them on um you know and uh it's uh

you know some people have a better

temperament for risk-taking because

ultimately if you have not been in the

markets for a long period of time it

doesn't matter whether you have an edge

or not you're end You're Going to Be

Your Own Worst Enemy you know just with

your emot motions until you learn to

desensitize and get a very thick skin

and so forth so a lot of this game is

just being able to stay in the game as

with anything you know you're going to

go to college you're going to go to four

years medical school you're going to do

two to three years residency there is a

uh big time period there before you

start to get to that point where you can

make the big bucks and that's that's

just with more I'm saying that in the

light of of the retail type of the side

of the business because there is

opportunity for some uh quants that are

very sophisticated I know some friends

that are doing really interesting work

you know but it's it's um it's a

different science if you will so even

you know the most successful Fund in

history everybody likes to look at Jim

Simmons and his Medallion fund right

it's not that he's a Trader it's just

that he had the most amazing insane

infrastructure Network you know that

nobody else would be able to replicate

and what people don't understand with

his particular fond I don't know the

stats now I knew the stats 20 30 40

years ago because I had clients that had

uh monies with him his average holding

time was under 24 hours so it wasn't

like putting on big bets it's just that

they worked every Market in the world

you know milliseconds at times every

single edge that could be and uh you

know that is not um possible for

somebody like you or me you know it just

takes this insane amount of

infrastructure and Technics and you know

Engineers to keep everything going so

we're talking about a different type of

business here there's something I like

to say a lot to people which is you have

to trade you would you agree with and

you know what if you don't know who you

are the markets are a very expensive

place to find out I I have that written

down here I have about 10 quotes from

your book written down here and that's

one of them so you just covered one of

my quotes thank you um but you know

being that like a lot of people it's

funny I saw it on a u on a panel a few

months ago and we were talking about you

know back testing and and all this stuff

and somebody in the audience raised

their hand and said you know I don't

know how to program and I don't have

back testing software so you know I

can't do that

stuff and one of the guys I was on the

panel with um said so what you're

telling me is you want to make money

trading the markets you you just don't

want to do the work that's necessary to

make money in the markets which I

thought was a little harsh but was

absolutely true you know I don't know

how to program um but you know you get a

trade station and and you hire somebody

for $50 an hour quite frankly and and

you can get pretty far and if you

actually take a little time programming

something like trade station is very

simple it's all just a question how much

how much you want it I think you know

you know I um for the first uh really 10

years of my um career I did everything

by hand and I would print off charts and

I would go by hand and I would calculate

the variance for every single trade and

um I learned more by doing that and

seeing the times where it didn't work

and the problem with back testing it's

great for overall modeling and giving

you an initial idea and um but the

problem is is that uh you're lumping so

much data together you're missing the

skew and the problem is that I mean with

the markets you have to understand that

the skew is where the edge is in other

words those fat tails and so when you

lump say for example uh statistical

testing with a sample size of 500 it

wipes all that out and everything

cancels each other out and you'll miss

those fine little nuances and that's

really about what the market is about to

me is that there's that skew that's what

offers the fat opportunity here and it

takes a lot of time to recognize that

you know um because our

humanness um you know we want to buy

wholesale sell retail that type of stuff

uh and we're always looking for that

Arbitrage or that reversion to the mean

type of thing just subconsciously you

know if you see a car that's marked up

too high you're going to wait till it

comes down that type of thing but what

the markets do is they impart incredible

information to us when these

relationships get out of line and they

get out of line for a very definitive

reason and so it's hard for us to

understand as humans because we don't

see enough of that we don't have enough

sample size to really understand you

know what's going on but if you have a

banded type of um you know relationship

and something starts to push outside

that band okay there's a very strong

reason why and you generally want to go

with that and that's very difficult for

people to get their hands around that

you know just like you've learned Now by

watching the commitment of Traders

reports that just because it gets

extreme sometimes when it gets so

extreme uh

you actually want to be positioned in

the direction of that because there's

something crazy going on there and of

course eventually everything does a

little bit of a reaction in the opposite

direction but um you know so I wrote a

book many years ago and it was with

Larry Connor and the name of that book

was Street smarts and so uh there

definitely is a little bit of Street

smarts when it comes to the markets you

know it's not necessarily about having

that master's degree in Applied

Mathematics or you know something that

would allow you to have these uh

incredible programming skills which are

of value for certain hedge funds or uh

you know Quant shops that do that but

for the individual I don't think it's

necessary I really don't think you have

to do that I think what happens is that

especially with electronic trading it's

so easy just to click that Mouse and

it's very difficult for most people to

have the patience and be very

discriminating in waiting for the

opportunities where uh not to be cliche

because it did get to be a very cliche

word in the last couple years that

asymmetrical opportunity you know um you

know or that high win rate uh but the

the good opportunities just don't come

along as often as people might think

it's a fact and it and it speaks to it

speaks to discipline which to me is the

hardest thing in the world you can have

the greatest system in the world if

you're not disciplined over time even

the greatest system in the world is

going to have losing trades and get

things wrong and sometimes get things

very wrong and if you're not disciplined

you're doomed um that's what I believe I

think discipline is the single most

important thing in this game I don't

care how you trade and I think you'd

probably agree with that um I hate that

word I'm sorry well to me

you know what it is it's it's like um I

like I like phrasing it as having a

process because if you have a process

you're not putting yourself at the mercy

of being disciplined or undisciplined or

doing you st disciplined to that process

well there okay all right we're doing

semantics here but yeah process so that

um I see people all the time they they

have a process but then they don't stay

disciplined to it okay I'm going to get

in here I'm going to here the stop comes

it's like well I'm going to let it drive

for another day well you know what I

mean it's like they probably haven't

gone through that learning curve yet no

they will they still you know newer in

the game so why it's a it is definitely

a game of attrition because uh you know

you you can't have so many people

winning at this game I hate to say it

you know it's um not that every Market

is a zero some type of game that's not

true either but uh you are competing in

Arena with um major money that has

exceptional execution skills it's all

automated and they are going to beat you

to it you can't leave yourself at the

mercy of oh I'm going to get out if it

hits this point no put your stop in if

you get hit you can always get back in

you know so um yes fact um the first

things that I wrote down from your book

some of these quotes trade in the

direction of the aberration and you've

mentioned this a few times in the book

okay and I love it because trading the

direction of the aberration the market

is never too high to buy or too low to

sell when something moves Beyond its

historical boundaries there's a strong

reason why which is what you were just

saying a Trader should be positioned in

the direction of the aberration I

believe in this so much this is what

triggers pretty much every one of my

trades is when a market does something

that it's not supposed to do I go with

the market and not with what the

supposed to do thing is um and I think

that's an important point I don't know

if you want to expand on that you might

have done that a little bit already I'll

just give you one example that's sort of

a different dimension and I did a lot of

work with Steve Moore and Moore Research

Center back in uh in the early 90s and I

learned a lot about seasonals and the

statistics behind them and Steve's run

this stuff for like 30 plus 40 years

he's probably I think the best in the

business that does it more research

center but you can look at seasonal that

goes back say 20 years or just say 18

years and let's say it's seasonals are

very much like an Actuarial Table

there's a window it's not necessarily

timing sensitive on either end but

there's a window where you would see a

positive expectation and so we can say

okay you know the market rallied during

this month uh 15 out of the last 18

years which is not a high sample size so

that means that on a walk forward basis

even though it was 85% win rate in the

past going forward it might only be a

60% win rate but now do that across a

portfolio of 20 different markets and

names so it's all a numbers game but

here's what Steve taught me was that a

failed seasonal often ends up being an

even bigger trade than the actual

seasonal okay so there's a very strong

reason as to why that seasonal fails and

so you know we can't afford to get

stubborn these things and you do have to

have a cut off by which you can say this

system is no longer working this

seasonal is not catching this XYZ may

you know uh be the case so that would be

an example there just having a failed

seasonal could be a bigger win in in the

opposite direction yeah I like

it um something really you know things

don't work all the time and again A lot

of times when they don't work it's an

even better signal it's going to work

the other way there you go there's

always a reason so stop being stubborn

it appears to me from your book that and

you talked about this earlier about

things give you an opportunity and they

get arbed out tell me if I'm wrong but

it appears you have traded very many

different things over over the years

maybe you you you you used to do this

and that worked for a while and then it

stopped working because maybe it got

arbed out so you you contined to do

research you found this you started

doing this and that worked for a while

and then it stopped working and you did

research and you moved on to this is

that correct yes and no I started off in

the equity options which was very much a

strategic type of game it's not like

you're in the Futures pits with the snps

and everybody going totally you know

crazy all day long although we did have

green mail and blackmail and some

craziness in the pits you know back in

the 80s um but yes the edge and the

options did get arbed out so everything

was pretty much right in line um I don't

trade crypto I don't trade Forex I mean

I trade the the currency Futures I love

the currency Futures but there's really

no Advantage for me to trade Forex

versus the currency Futures I would much

rather trade the currency Futures where

I can buy on bid sell on offer that type

of thing and and use them on my uh

execution platform with the same uh

trade management tools or so forth that

I do with everything else I don't have

to have several separate accounts so um

I have traded stocks on and off you know

for like 30 40 years and I'll be

brutally honest it's like uh I find that

I get more banged for my buck in the

Futures because of the leverage and the

um it's so much easier to move size

going in and out you know with the snps

you know one Mouse click you can do a

couple hundred and with stocks you can't

really do that it's a different type of

uh execution feel to it and it's a

little bit more Capital intensive it at

least for the way that I trade so I

pretty much stick to Futures and I've

traded um urx the jgbs the Italian bonds

I mean I've traded Futures all over the

world but now um you know I pretty much

just stick to the most liquid domestic

Futures markets and trust me that's

enough to get into trouble it certainly

is um again I'm going to quote some your

book these are more my f some of my

favorite ones it's hard to muster the

necessary confidence in a system unless

you develop it yourself and this is

something that has come to my attention

since I've started this Discord page and

newsletter type thing because I find we

started this thing with the idea of

helping people to understand the bigger

picture of what it takes to be

successful in trading not to copy trade

Jason shapira okay um and I do put my

trades on there because I want people to

see what I'm doing and therefore the

discipline that I'm using and my stop

losses and my risk management so that

they can see that that is the more

important thing but what I find is a lot

of people copy the traits and I beg them

not to for this very reason that you

mention in the book if you didn't

develop this yourself you're not going

to have the confidence in it I I've been

trading what the way that I've been

trading for over 20 years I go through a

losing period I know that that's part of

it I have all my statistics you know so

I don't say oh those last three trades

stunk I'm not going to take the next one

you know I know how important it is for

me to take the next one because the next

one may very well be the big one right

um so yeah did you want to expand on

that a little bit the fact that you

really need to develop your own thing

and not you know well sure everybody has

different temperaments and uh some

people are more nervous and need a

little bit more uh you know some people

can take heat like I can take a

ridiculous amount of heat you know but

that might not be the case with

everybody and it might not be a good

thing either you know I'm also uh very

uh pro- risk I I take a lot of risk and

it doesn't bother me you know I and it

gets me into it's gotten me into trouble

in the past I'm very much uh leap and

then look you know and assess uh but the

opportunity comes I want to get it on

and then I can evaluate sometimes um I

will say that even though I do so much

crazy modeling and I always have and

I've always hired people that have been

full-time for my hedge fund that did all

the number grinding for me um my real

for is that I'm just an exceptional tape

reader and that probably came from my

years of standing on the floor when we

didn't have charts I didn't have

computers I didn't have software you

know where I could see these things but

there's a certain way that a market will

trade when there's an increase in

interest and an increase in volume and

an activity and I don't need to plot the

volume on um you know on the chart I'm

usually looking at the uh my quote board

you know so I'm trading off of the

little net change is pretty much what I

watch but I do it across a basket so

it's a very holistic type of dynamic

markets to me I mean I watch the stocks

I watch the currencies the metals the

crude all these types of things but I'm

kind of watching The Net change and I

can see when something's going plus or

minus and I've usually done my uh

homework the night before that says okay

this if this dips below the previous

days low and starts to come back up I'm

going to get long um but I use a lot of

discretion on entries I'll use a little

bit more systematic approach on exits

and I've pretty much categorized you

know my approach to exit for small

Target which is if you're scalping or

day trading on the snps 80% of the time

you want to just play for a small Target

because they're very noisy markets so if

a market is going through a

consolidation period or Market profile

terms would say bracketing Market you

want to play for a smaller Target pretty

much you know a mean reversion type of

thing if it's um you know just starting

to get some legs then you can reach for

a larger Target and then there are you

know about six to seven structured

categories that I have where I would

Trail a stop and that is maybe 30% of

the time are there cases where you can

go into the marketplace place and Trail

a stop and do better than playing for a

small Target or a large Target I tend

not to scale out so I'm pretty much all

in all out that's just what works for me

I find that people when they scale out

often it's more to satisfy that

psychological need but it does alter the

numbers so as if you want to do that for

yourself that's fine but just recognize

that that's why you're doing it to

scratch that little mental itch that you

might have um so you know I like to do a

little bit of everything uh you know if

I'm day trading the snps I might only

make one or two trades a day and then

I'll be looking for my you know

positions that I can put in one day out

the next day or hold for two or three

days and then those opportunities where

we can hold a trade for say two weeks

you know without really taking much heat

uh maybe you get seven of those per year

per Market you know so it's identifying

the pre-existing conditions and then

understanding that I might only capture

if I have 120 trades I might only

capture 60 of the 60% of those trades

you see it's uh and then if you have a

system that says you should make n%

you're doing great if you capture 80% of

that you know because it's pretty hard

to um you know for numerous reasons

psychological execution software

Hardware time of day all all kinds of

things why people will 99% of the time

underperform a quote system unless it is

100% automated and systematic and even

then you've got can of worms for a

smaller individual that doesn't have

that sophisticated uh reconciliation

going on in the background and so for

it's a whole different business though I

think it's an interesting comment if

that's what you're doing you were

talking about the scaling out thing

that's fine just recognize why you're

doing it um and I love that because

that's how I feel about all of this I I

think this whole game is a battle

against yourself um and recognizing why

you're doing things to me is the most

important thing you can do right finding

and being honest about your own biases

so that you can

overcome them you know is to me the most

important thing that you can do and what

people have the most trouble doing not

just in trading but in life I mean I see

it all the time with almost everybody I

talk to these biases that they can't get

over be it and I don't want to get into

it but be it political be it religious

be it whatever you know the bias is just

overtake any kind of ability to think in

an open-minded way and and that's fine

in life if that's what you want to do

you're not hurting anybody necessarily

but in trading you know um you're going

to lose money so you know to me that

that that's the most important thing to

me I don't know how you feel but and it

goes back to the whole discipline

argument as well but to me it's

psychological discipline you know what I

would do would be anybody that you know

maybe's been in the game for less than

10 years maybe you know a little bit

more than three years but they want to

uh step up their game um pretend that

you are going to manage money and you

know this Jason because you had to do

this as a CTA you prepare a a document

and in that document it states markets

that you trade your trading style

perhaps some general statistics as to

average holding time average drw down

these types of metrics and um then trade

that as if you are your own best client

trade it as if I'm going to take one

unit one unit might be one contract it

might be five contracts depending on

your account size it might be uh 10

contracts in corn and two contracts in

the NASDAQ I adjust everything by a

dollar range so that it's uh even you

know fairly even risk there and uh say

I'm going to do a six-month period here

of my Approach and style so that I can

see the numbers and then go raise money

on that okay okay maybe you have no

intention of doing that and truly to

become a CTA or a hedge fund or

something is so insane with the

regulatory burden and the counting and

the auditing and everything else that

most people don't want to go down that

road but if you did an exercise saying

uh you know I'm going to demonstrate my

style and I'm going to do it and keep

these statistics you know and if you

really want to put the heat on yourself

show your statements every day to a

friend or a colleague or a spouse or

something like that so you are fully

accountable and I think that that

accountability problem is really uh what

can solve a lot of people's you know um

ruts that they get themselves into if

they had to be accountable to somebody

in some way because you know face it you

can hide your statements nobody sees it

except you and you can lie about it to

people too it make you oh yeah oh yeah

but if you had be accountable it might

be a whole different game changer you

know you might be more apt to exit a

losing position at the end of the day if

you want to reestablish it the next day

you can but at lean you're not carrying

this crap on your sheets overnight

that's going to get you off to a bad

foot the next day of trading so there's

all kinds of Creative Solutions that you

can do and uh I am not a coach and I'm

but I'm sure there are coaches out there

that could you know help out in that

area uh but you know it's you will find

a way if you want Mr Bill who was your

trade your trainer yes recordkeeping is

a critical part of building a good

foundation and he wasn't even talking

about trading um monitoring your

statistics is also a tool that can help

you stay focused and gain control over

areas that are prone to distractions it

is vital for tracking performance which

is exactly what you were just saying and

I think that he was about your physical

training but and how to be successful in

that and what I have come to the

conclusion of over the years is that

success in any in Denver um is a Formula

whether it be success in bodybuilding

success in trading success in

relationships I is a formula and part of

that formula is to keep records and to

keep statistics and to keep honest

unbiased notes on this stuff because

that helps you an immense amount it

helped me an immense amount when I

finally came to the conclusion after 10

years that whatever the hell I was doing

it was not getting me anywhere with this

and I had to make a decision of what I

wanted to do with my life and I decided

I wanted to go on trading I was lucky

that I had been keeping statistics and

trades for you know a good seven eight

years and I was able to go back through

that and really see what was working and

what wasn't working you know and we have

this this multi- learning thing I read

in one book the guy called it where

we'll remember the trade that did great

but we'll forget the 50 times we put

that same type of trade on and it didn't

work right whereas if you're keeping the

records of all that you can go back and

look and see hey I remember that that

worked great once but it doesn't work

great over time um I think that's such

an important thing for people and and Mr

Bill was saying that that was important

for you and nothing to do with trading

so just on that subject um this was an

interesting quote cuz I love it you were

talking about something I think the

stock market there was excess cash on

the sidelines the number one variable in

my book that drives Trends and I live

that world okay I I live in the world my

trading is all about trying to see where

possible money flows are going to come

from right if I'm looking at the coot

stuff and I'm looking to short something

that people are very long it's because

I'm hoping that I'm getting in front of

the money flows coming out if I'm

looking to buy something and people are

very short obviously I'm looking to get

in front of the money flows that coming

in how do you measure because you say

the number one variable in my book that

drives Trend so how do you measure this

idea of cash on the sidelines excess

cash on the sidelines if you do or is it

just a feel thing or um it is a big feel

thing for me now because I've integrated

so much like holistically over all the

years but I would say that first of all

you can look at sentiment readings I

think are huge okay they're very

important because if you have too much

bearishness that's people that are

sitting in cash if you have too much

bullishness they're speaking their

position so there's a you you a modicum

of that going on you can also look at

like fred is a site that has all kinds

of Statistics in terms of um you know

the data that's in Money Market funds

and so forth I mean many many years ago

there was a service called trim tabs

that would you know tell you the flows

going in and out um so I'm pretty much a

pure technical an analyst you know

technici I really don't look at news or

events or macro at all I do believe that

you know it'll show up in the charts and

the sentiment and some of these other uh

things um but uh yeah you know and

there's something to be said for as

Ralph Aur put it the broader the base

the higher into space the broader the

top the bigger the drop you know so

these adages you know about accumulation

and distribution period still play out

um uh you know we never know for sure

because if you did somehow it would be

priced in and there are lots of AI

programs out there that incorporate

these sentiment readings and so forth

and you know people have put these into

their models you know I'm sure Rayo has

models that include these types of

metrics so uh you know I don't try to I

I consider those to be secondary

variables okay so for me secondary

factors are sentiment seasonals

commitment of R trade TR reports they're

like a a they color the market for me

you know leadership in the markets you

know group sectors those are all

secondary factors I'm not going to make

a trading decision based off of those

I'm going to make it purely off of the

technicals in the market structure and

then I just have to be confident that um

you know for every 10 trades that I make

2% might be big wins you know or I might

catch a runner it's just a really a pure

numbers game as would be any game of

cards you know you just keep playing

keep playing and uh you know sometimes

the the data is choppy and noisy and

there's no volume there's not much going

on and that's the way too with cards you

know sometimes the cards are just like

crummy Bridge hands or something but

then there's other times where the I

think the biggest factor is is that you

have to recognize when you are dealt a

good hand you know and play that to the

hilt and that's

you know cards baseball markets anything

it's really about capitalizing on those

very few open doors that uh you know

come across our way and then that's

where you really have to step on the gas

and increase your leverage and play it

to the health but you can't force that

and so I find for me um I'm not trading

full-time like I once was I don't trade

by any chance on The Leverage that I

once did you know I've kind of toned

things down a lot um but

um that was probably my greatest

strength was knowing that I got it right

and to really go for it and play that

and uh so in the meantime you have to

keep yourself involved in a uh fairly

structured routine ritual process a lot

of grunt work you know I logged numbers

at the end of the day logged I didn't

keep the statistics on my trades in in

much later years you know that was more

for the beginning and kind of things but

you know you know damn well when you're

screwing up you know when you're doing

something you shouldn't do I don't need

to log the trade to you to tell me that

I you know I know when I've got a bias

you know and I recognize it but it's

just like keeping yourself I hate to say

it for me I was the markets were there

like every tick in my head every second

of the day you know I just eat sleep

breathe them and um you know it it's

like it's in your blood and uh it's it's

not that way right now but I mean I've

got enough

residual that uh you know that helps I

kind of diverged from our question there

but I mean that the baseball term I use

all the time is wait for the fat pitch

there you go wait for that fat pitch and

you know I now and I've done a lot of

different trading in my life but I now

only wait for the fat pitch and

sometimes I'm waiting a very long time

and it can be very difficult but um

again process is process discipline is

discipline and I'll wait forever for the

fat pitch if I have to because I hate

you know I wait for the fetch pitch and

sometimes I swing and I miss anyway okay

but um I'm okay with that what I'm not

okay I can't hit a curveball so when I

swing and Miss at a curveball I hate it

I just can't I can't deal with it

personally so when you first started

trading Jason did they have electronic

execution the way they do now or did you

have to call down to the floor to your

broker had to

call so I do think that I was trading

before the internet so yes okay so I do

think that you me Peter brand all of us

had a different experience than somebody

coming into the marketplace in the last

15 years and I do feel strongly that um

the little mouse you know and our

little uh which does release dopamine in

the brain um it is addicting it is very

addicting and it changes your uh you

know your brain neurology there it it

definitely does and so um that I think

is a big problem for people because it's

so easy just to go in and out during the

day and it's counterproductive into the

way that you're programming your brain

and I don't know what the answer is how

to get away from that un unless you had

a colleague sitting next to you and

you're like okay is this it yes is this

it you know maybe trying to work through

it that way um I don't know what the

answer is but I do think it's been um a

challenge for people coming into the

markets you know with this sensory

stimulation and even you know my screens

you know the amount of data now is

coming into them is probably 50 times

greater than was you know 30 years ago I

remember had a big giant satellite dish

in my backyard at one point you know and

uh that that out got outdated you know

25 years ago so um I think just being

aware of these things and once again

it's a game where you know that it's uh

maybe 4% of the people will really make

it don't overtrade is a very old trading

adage but as you say a very difficult

one more difficult now because of the

ability to just click a mouse and have

fun um my answer for that is not the

only way but the most likely way that

people are going to get over that is

they're going to lose enough money doing

it and eventually they're going to get

sick of losing money hopefully and

they're going to stop doing it okay I

think that's the only way to do it you

know I mean that's the one thing about

this game that personally I love is that

are you saying it's Darwinism

Jason yes you know I'm I'm saying you

know we all know things that have

happened in life where people have

gotten lucky and made bad decisions and

gotten lucky anyway or whatever and and

in this game any individual trade sure

but over time you're not going to get

lucky and make money in this game over

time as you very well know um and so

that's what we have to start off with

something you know that's what you and I

uh you know have to acknowledge that

somebody that's just coming into the

markets in the last two to three years

you have to start off somewhere you know

you have to start off with a little

gimmick a little indicator perhaps um a

longer term time Horizon is not

appropriate if you don't have that

experience under your belt then what's

more appropriate is desensitizing

yourself to putting on a trade taking it

off and because a lot of times you know

putting on that trade when you've got

some money on the line there's a little

Adrenaline Rush there for people that

haven't desensitized themselves right

it's like jumping off a high dive you

know my heart would be pounding out of

my chest but if I've jumped off that

high dive a hundred times it's not such

a big deal but you know it's okay to

start off with a little gimmick a little

indicator take the pressure off of

yourself to make money keep a very

short-term Horizon because it is not

about calling the markets or a macro

perspective or being right or wrong you

know it's finding one little spot where

you can pick up a dollar bill off that

sidewalk and you have to then take that

from there and uh you know the other

thing is you've got all these I don't

know Twitter and chat rooms and I I

don't want to you know Discord can be

fine if you have a good group of people

that provide the camaraderie which is

important you know comaraderie uh can be

very important but um everybody has to

learn to throttle that noise level down

to a level that's not going to be a

distraction for them or influence their

decision making process which is very

difficult I'm the first that's I'll

never have a TV in my officer listen to

the news because I know myself you know

it's it's going to influence me one way

or another I'll be like ah damned if I

do damned if I don't he already put that

out there on you know on the air wve so

um yeah so just be careful of that noise

level eliminate the distractions it's

okay to start off with a little gimmicky

trade that's you know oh wow five

minutes I'm in the trade I did a little

breakout of that first 15 minute range

in the snps and I CAU two handles hey

Pat yourself on the back you know sit

back for a little bit and uh you know

take the pressure off of yourself to try

to do so much so soon patience is a

virtue understand there's a learning

curve yes um I have two more things I

want to say um because I don't want to

keep you for too long um but in the

midst of all this some of these things

that we've talked about right in terms

of what I was saying about too much

money on the sideline and that's what

pushes the trends and feel free to tell

me I have no idea if you'd like but

where are we now I have no idea where

are we now right now in the markets with

that where are we in the stock market

right now well there's still a lot of

money out there in in the money market

funds I mean we got up to historical

levels on that money market funds you

know the monetary base on a Global

Supply expanded by like 25% on a global

basis you know so it's hard to say how

all that filters down and there's really

two classes out there you know on one

hand you have your uh middle class and

your lower class who's got you know

fairly maxed out on their credit cards

and inflation took a hefty dent in that

but on the other hand you know the

wealthy have gotten so wealthy and

there's a lot of money sitting there in

Money Market funds and that is

increasing because if I can sit there

with my money in a fund getting 5% you

know out of treasuries or something I'm

just only adding to that you know if you

want to think about it that way there's

just increasing more and more money out

there even though we know that

eventually the government will be um you

know eating into the you know it's

always the private sector versus the

public sector so they might be uh you

know attributable to a greater

percentage of the GMP than perhaps in

the past but um there's still a lot of

money out there I not sure that

valuations you know have reached

extremes that we've seen in the past and

you know I'm not a macro person but I

just gonna say this is incredi I was

just gonna say it's an incredibly macro

talk for an intraday techn know I can't

help it you're still there you know but

I'll look at the charts and you can say

that the weeklys are you know a little

rich in term terms of the uh Trend but

you know even so once we stop going up

okay which could be you know maybe we've

stopped going up typically you rotate

and you form a prolonged trading range

okay to digest everything so it's pretty

rare that market tops are straight up

straight down it's much more likely that

you'll have a market bottom that unfolds

that way you know so that to me says

that we we should have great trading

opportunity you know don't go out there

and mortgage the house to buy puts it's

not like that type of environment right

now um I still think my opinion is that

the vix is still a little high I don't

don't get me for that but you know I've

Just Seen every 10 years that vix goes

down to single digits so it is a

possibility that it will go down to

single digits again you know which means

that the implied volatility is based off

of the historical volatility and so so

typically at marks the historical Vol at

tops historical volatility tends to

contract and I don't know if we have

quite seen that contraction to the

extreme in the historical volatility it

is coming in you know you can look at

bottoms and see it was so much greater

and at Market bottoms you'll see oh uh

things like Market breadth plus 1800 -

1800 plus 1800 minus 1800 and at Market

tops you'll start to see oh Market

breadth plus 300 minus 200 plus 500 this

type of uh and that's why they always

say it's complacency it's not that it's

complacency it's just that um that's the

nature of the price Behavior once it

starts to reach that you know point

where uh all the funds have bought the

AI stocks and you're starting to see

some rotation right some rotation doubt

um yeah but that could still be a

process you know if we look at election

years uh

typically and you know again keep in

mind the sample size is small here you

know but election years tend to hold

together you know so they do you know

but it doesn't mean that we can't have

some like lovely little sell-offs along

the way as well I call them long

liquidation flushes and um my Approach

is pretty much one day at a time you

know I look at my my stuff and I say

well does this look like it's a great

sell short day is it is there a little

breakout coil here going on you know is

this a do we just have a long

liquidation flush and it's a buying

opportunity and then I don't fry my

brain because I'll fry my brain if I try

and look out too far in the future I

think the idea of how Market's top and

Market's bottom is is really really

valuable because I have been harping for

a while here on people that just keep

wanting to short the stock market

um and I'm like listen you're not going

to miss anything okay like you're trying

to short when a market closes on new

all-time highs you know don't do it you

know I mean it's not going to close in

an all-time high and you're going to

wake up tomorrow and the S&P are going

to be down 300 and you missed it I've

never seen that happen every crash I've

ever seen you traded through the 87

crash the 87 crash the market topped in

what August and it crashed in October

you have time right and I think that's

an interesting comment about how workk

at tops because while I have never done

the Quant work that you have I have

noticed that as well they Spike bottom

they don't Spike top um they I follow a

lot of the uh Global indices too again

just purely on a technical basis I'm not

going to ask how or why but you can't

have markets like the Dax which is still

one time framing meaning consecutive

higher highs and higher lows on a daily

bar chart uh you know you're not going

to have a selloff in the US market as

long as you have some of these other

indices just going uh crazy you know

Japan's been nice I mean the uh you know

Mexico's been nice there's all sectors

in the rest of the world where even when

they stop going up even when that Dax

stops going up it's going to rotate it's

going to form a trading range and

probably that will um parallel you know

price action in the US markets yeah I

mean my issue all of the markets here is

that I think there's been a switch

personally you know what I mean last

year people were so massively bearish

you know looking for the recession and

you know I'm I trade this sort of fade

the mass psychology whereas now that's

totally gone nobody can call for

recession anymore um and people are

bullish uh I don't think that they have

put all their money to work so I don't

think it's a short but for me and I

trade on a different time frame than you

you know I'm picking sort of major turns

and trying to catch major Trends very

early um I am not into being long here

I'm also not into being short here you

know that that's just me but neither

here nor there there's one last thing

that I want to say that I read in your

book that personally it had so many your

book had so many great nuggets of wisdom

um and I thought this was the best one

and you put it right at the end which I

thought was op propo because I think it

is the most important thing and and and

this is something that I have learned

I'm now 56 this is not something that I

ever would have understood when I was 30

years old okay when I was 30 years old

my man was I want to be a billionaire

come Heller high water that's what I'm

going for okay me I'm going for me right

um but what you said here is give and

everything you give will come back to

you in tenfold stay humble but remain

confident and never forget if you don't

know who you are the markets are an

expensive place to find out I think

that's such a great conclusion to all

this because it says nothing about

markets well the last part does but give

and everything you give will come back

to you tenfold um this is something I

never would have believed or

understood um until I had some

experiences with some people in my life

who imparted that upon me and I still

didn't believe it but as I've gotten

older now I have come to understand that

and I think if anybody takes anything

away from any of this that that's the

most no one's going to believe it and

most young people aren't going to

believe it but I have learned especially

in the last five years or 10 years of my

life um the more you give the more you

get so I didn't know if you wanted to

come comment on that but I just think

it's such an important know it's just uh

all that mindset of gratitude and uh

recognizing how lucky and fortunate and

blessed we are to live in the uh United

States where we do and um you know how

you choose to look at things my mom was

always one that's like okay you can look

at it as half full or half empty you

know make lemons out of lemonade all

that type of stuff and so um I think

think by uh taking the rosy side of the

equation looking at uh positive our

blessings and so forth that opens up

your mind you know to receive and uh you

know whereas if you have um you know if

you can't let go of things and you've

got some negative energy and so forth

you'll have a block and it's just not

going to flow the same way I think that

you won't be as happy of a person and

you know sometimes the happiest people

out there really have very simple lives

and in the long run that's what it kind

of comes down to you know uh what we

choose to fill our life with I mean it

might just be you know gardening or

cooking or something simple or our

children or a friend um but it allows

you to then proceed with your work in a

more seamless type of mode you know

without getting stuck in rucks and

blockages and why did I do that I can't

you know I and I did that when I was

younger I mean I'd wake up in the middle

of the night and going oh my God I can't

believe I did that and why I tap my

husband at the time on his shoulder I'm

like I'm so stupid why did I do that you

know and I'm like how much negative

energy did I waste and I really think

that's why I got sick for a period there

as well you know so we want to keep

ourselves functioning functioning

optimally first phys physically you know

Good Health Nutrition and so forth uh

you know mentally spiritually whatever

that may mean to you and then I think

that you will be able to perform your

best in the markets because it is a

performance oriented discipline period

it's just like going out and playing

tennis or any other performance oriented

discipline and you can't be performing

well when you have you know negative you

know cancerous energy inside of yourself

so that's my philosophy I love it I love

it words from a successful person um to

be listened to thank you so much Linda

it's been uh an absolute pleasure you

are an absolute gem um please read her

book please listen to the things that

she says um about trading and about life

and I don't know is there a place people

can can that you want to be found or

anything like that or do you not want to

be found hi Rock Jason I never want to

be found again I don't know if you have

a web page I do have a website it's

gotten greatly paired down because it

was under so many cyber attacks I

probably need to redo it uh you know but

that's the only place that you can buy

my book which only has I don't know

maybe 200 or 300 copies left and then I

really need to uh I just you know hate

dealing with this stuff I need to either

sell the rights off to a publisher get

stick it on Amazon or something like

that I'm probably the only person that

didn't stick the book on Amazon cuz I'm

like they can't have 40% of my profits I

did all the work on that damn thing you

know and you know it was kind of cool so

it was fun because um and I do have an

assistant who helps out with all this

stuff because I just would not have the

patience to deal with self-publishing

but what was super cool was that 60% of

the people that purchased my book were

overseas and I subsidized the shipping I

pay for half that shipping because it's

expensive to ship books overseas but I

just felt very strongly that I wanted to

produce a really pretty book with the

highest quality paper and the old

traditional jackets and I was willing to

pay the shipping for somebody you know

to get it in Australia and uh I don't

have many copies left but um I thought

that was interesting that 60% of the

sales were overseas because people are

so conditioned to using Amazon they just

want to go with that one click Boop you

know and uh I don't know we'll see what

happens in the future thought it'd be

really fun to do an audible version I

just you know God if we had 50 hours in

every day it's one of those things so

yeah I mean I thought the world was

going to end today because some Bri that

that thing hit that bridge in Baltimore

and the Amazon warehouses right there

and they were saying it might delay

Amazon deliveries I was like oh my God

the world's going to end everyone's

gonna have to wait an extra 48 hours for

their Amazon delivery I was shocked I

Wasing and I heard uh the uh amount of

millions of dollars of trade that passed

through that Port I did not realize that

so many cars were delivered into that

Port from Europe so kind of interesting

yeah I mean well get your Volkswagen now

step right up grab it off the lot yeah

right awesome thank you so much Linda I

hope we keep in touch again um you're a

special person and I really appreciate

your time thank you for having me on

your show Jason and just the best of

success to you and let me know next time

you need some warm weather and come down

to Florida

okay sit here every day and I I was

actually looking at Florida today I'm

looking at those bare trees in the

background behind your image I'm like oh

that's

Bleak know it's Bleak it's Bleak up here

in Rhode Island but you know we love it

you like it in the summertime yeah no I

like it all the time my wife's here I

like it here that's what she's my life

so that's what counts that sounds good

all right best team

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[Music]

Jason