Secrets of Steam's Discovery Algorithm – Chris Zukowski | IMPRESS Mini Marketing Summit 2023 (1/4)

Summary

The speaker, a game marketing expert, discusses strategies for successfully promoting indie games on Steam. He explains how Steam's algorithm curates games, rewarding those that gain visibility through demos, streamers, or PR events. He emphasizes the importance of building early visibility and 'blessing' from Steam’s algorithm to extend a game's promotion period. The speaker also highlights the challenges indie developers face with mid-tier games and offers insights on boosting a game's chances of success. He promotes his resources, including a free book and discounted courses, and offers consultations through Zoom office hours.

Takeaways

• 📊 Understanding Steam's Algorithm: Steam uses an algorithmic curation system that promotes games based on visibility and engagement, not purely on sales or quality.
• 📈 Visibility Shocks Matter: Games that experience a 'visibility shock,' such as streamers playing the game or a demo launch, often get 'blessed' by the Steam algorithm, increasing their exposure.
• 👀 Pre-release Blessing: Steam can start promoting games even before they are released if they notice significant activity, such as wishlist growth or external buzz.
• 🎯 New Marketing Strategy: Successful games often extend the 'blessed' period by launching early demos and maintaining visibility long before the official release, contrasting with the traditional marketing approach of focusing efforts just before launch.
• 📉 The Indie Zone of Sadness: Many games get stuck with positive reviews but limited sales because they haven't reached the financial threshold (around $250,000 gross) that triggers broader promotion by Steam.
• 🕹️ Real Steam vs. Algorithmic Steam: Real Steam curation is based on performance metrics like sales velocity and visibility rather than subjective quality assessments by Valve.
• 🧩 No One-Size-Fits-All: Success on Steam requires either a visually appealing game or one that is exceptionally fun. Marketing can help, but the game's quality is the primary driver.
• 🚀 Long-term Visibility Pays Off: Games that stay visible longer, like through continuous demos or betas, can sustain their momentum and enjoy extended promotion on Steam.
• 📉 Consistent Conversion Rates: Games like CosmoTear maintained consistent wishlist conversion rates over years, debunking the myth that early interest diminishes over time.
• 📚 Free Resources and Classes: The speaker offers a free book on common indie marketing mistakes and periodically discounts his paid classes, helping developers better navigate the Steam landscape.

Q & A

What does the speaker mean by 'being blessed' by the Steam algorithm?

'Being blessed' refers to when a game's visibility on Steam increases significantly due to the platform's algorithm. This happens when the game gets attention through external factors like streamers, PR campaigns, or a demo launch, prompting Steam to feature it in various widgets, such as the Discovery Queue, increasing exposure to potential buyers.

Why does the speaker believe curation alone won't fix the issue of too many games on Steam?

The speaker believes that while curation might help, it wouldn't solve the problem because many unique and unconventional games that might not look promising initially, like 'Vampire Survivors' or 'Rule the Waves 3,' have found success. Curation might prevent these innovative games from reaching audiences.

What is the 'visibility shock' and how does it impact games on Steam?

A 'visibility shock' occurs when a game receives a significant amount of attention, such as through media coverage or streamers. This surge in visibility signals to Steam's algorithm that the game is gaining momentum, leading to more exposure through Steam's features and resulting in increased impressions and wishlists.

What strategy does the speaker suggest for maintaining prolonged visibility on Steam?

The speaker suggests launching a Steam page early, well before the game's release, and continuously generating attention, such as by releasing a demo. This allows the game to stay in the 'blessed' zone for an extended period, maximizing exposure over months instead of just the typical two-week window around the launch.

How do demos help in getting a game 'blessed' by the Steam algorithm?

Demos help attract attention from streamers and players, which in turn leads to higher wishlist counts and external visibility. This signals the Steam algorithm to promote the game more aggressively, as seen with games like 'Dome Keeper' and 'Peglin,' which experienced rapid growth after their demos were launched.

What is the 'sad indie zone' according to the speaker?

The 'sad indie zone' refers to the situation where indie games receive many positive reviews (often around 150-500 reviews) but struggle to gain traction in sales. These games fall into a mid-tier category where they are not making enough sales for Steam to promote them further, leading to stagnation in visibility and growth.

Why does the speaker say that having a visually appealing game is not always necessary for success on Steam?

The speaker mentions that while visually appealing games can go viral on platforms like Twitter or TikTok, games that are fun and engaging, even if they aren't as visually stunning, can still achieve success. Examples include games with simple pixel art like 'Peglin,' where the gameplay drives interest rather than the visuals.

How does Steam's algorithmic curation affect games that don't generate enough sales?

Steam's algorithm tends to suppress games that don’t generate significant sales or visibility. These games are still available on Steam, but they aren’t promoted heavily or featured in prominent areas, making it harder for them to gain exposure and continue growing.

What does the speaker mean by the 'new model' of marketing games on Steam?

The 'new model' refers to a shift in game marketing strategies where developers create a Steam page and release a demo early in the development process. This allows them to generate momentum over a longer period and stay in Steam's promotional cycle (the 'blessed zone') for months, increasing their chances of success at launch.

What factors can lead to a game getting 'blessed' by the Steam algorithm?

Factors include having a successful prior game, cross-promotion, participating in major festivals like E3, streamers or influencers playing the game, public beta releases, viral Reddit or social media posts, and successful demos. These factors help generate visibility that draws the attention of the Steam algorithm.

Outlines

00:00

🍻 Introduction and Apology for Not Being Live

The speaker expresses regret for not being able to attend live and explains how they tried to recreate the experience virtually. They humorously reference Googling a drink and imagining participating in the event despite it being early morning. The speaker writes a weekly blog on game marketing and offers free classes on how to create a Steam page. They have also consulted with game developers on marketing strategies and understanding Steam's unique ecosystem. The goal of this talk is to explain how Steam's visibility and curation system works.

05:02

🕹️ Steam's Secret Curation System

The speaker highlights that Steam does have a form of curation, despite common belief that it lacks one. They explain that even before a game goes on sale, Steam’s algorithm begins 'blessing' certain games by giving them visibility. This is based on factors like Impressions and external visibility, often influenced by major events like PR campaigns or streamer interest. Examples are given, such as the games 'Peglin' and 'Dome Keeper,' which gained visibility after external visibility spikes, leading to higher wishlists and 'blessings' from the Steam algorithm.

10:04

📈 Maximizing Your Game's 'Blessing' on Steam

The speaker explains how modern marketing strategies for games have evolved. Instead of focusing on a short promotional window right before release, developers should extend the 'blessed' period. By launching a Steam page and demos early, games can maintain high visibility on Steam for months before the official release. This strategy helps games stay in the algorithm's favorable position for longer, increasing their chances of success. Examples like 'Peglin' demonstrate how games can ride this visibility wave for extended periods.

15:05

🎮 Indie Games and Cohort Conversion Rates

The speaker debunks the fear that gamers get 'tired' of a game if it stays in the 'blessed' period for too long. They showcase data from games like 'Cosmoteer' and 'Zero Sievert,' which maintained consistent conversion rates even after being visible on Steam for years. Even games with long development cycles like Zelda remain highly anticipated. The speaker encourages developers to get blessed as early as possible and extend that visibility period as much as possible for long-term success.

💰 The Harsh Reality of Steam Curation

The speaker discusses the revenue disparity among indie games on Steam, showing that while top games make millions, the median indie game earns around $1,000. Steam uses an algorithm to promote certain games while others get 'curated out.' Games that don’t reach significant sales quickly enough tend to get less visibility, even if they have positive reviews. The speaker calls this 'real Steam' and describes how games with gross revenue under $250,000 can struggle to break through the platform’s curation algorithm.

🔮 Getting Into 'Real Steam'

The speaker concludes by emphasizing that the key to breaking into Steam’s visibility system is having a great game. While marketing plays a role, it’s ultimately the game itself that determines whether it will capture attention. Games need to either be visually stunning or exceptionally fun to play. They encourage developers to focus on getting blessed by the algorithm and maximizing the time their game spends in the 'blessed' state. They also offer a free book on avoiding marketing mistakes and mention their upcoming discounted class on game marketing.

Keywords

💡Steam

Steam is a digital distribution platform primarily for video games. In the video, it is referred to as the main platform where indie developers can publish and market their games. The speaker emphasizes the unique algorithm and curation process that determines the visibility of games on Steam, which is crucial for developers looking to gain attention for their projects.

💡Curation

Curation in the context of Steam refers to the process by which the platform selects and promotes certain games to users. The speaker explains that while many developers wish for more manual curation to filter out 'junk' games, Steam's algorithm already does a form of curation by selectively featuring games in the discovery queue and other promotional widgets based on various factors.

💡Visibility shock

Visibility shock is a term the speaker uses to describe a sudden surge of attention a game receives, which can trigger Steam's algorithm to promote the game. This can happen when a demo goes viral or streamers begin playing the game. The speaker shows examples of how games like Peglin and Dome Keeper experienced major growth after receiving visibility shocks.

💡Blessed by the algorithm

This phrase is used metaphorically to describe the moment when Steam’s algorithm decides to promote a game, pushing it into visibility for more users. Games that are 'blessed' appear in widgets like the discovery queue, which leads to more impressions and potential sales. The speaker emphasizes the importance of being blessed early to maintain momentum.

💡Impressions

Impressions refer to how many times a game is shown to users on Steam, regardless of whether they click on it or not. The speaker discusses how different games receive varying levels of impressions, which is influenced by Steam's algorithm. Impressions are a key factor in the visibility of a game on the platform.

💡Discovery queue

The Discovery queue is a feature on Steam that suggests games to users based on their preferences and browsing history. The speaker highlights this as one of the main ways a game can be featured if it has been blessed by the algorithm. This exposure is critical for indie games looking to gain traction.

💡Demo

A demo is a free, limited version of a game that developers release to give players a taste of the gameplay. In the video, the speaker stresses the importance of releasing a demo early as it can help trigger visibility shocks and lead to the game being blessed by Steam’s algorithm. Games like Dome Keeper saw a significant increase in wishlist additions after launching a demo.

💡Wishlists

Wishlists are a way for users to bookmark games they are interested in purchasing later. The number of wishlists a game accumulates is closely tied to its visibility and eventual success on Steam. The speaker provides examples of games that saw rapid wishlist growth after a visibility shock, which helped them get blessed by Steam's algorithm.

💡Steam algorithm

The Steam algorithm is the system that determines how games are shown and recommended to users on the platform. It takes into account factors like visibility shocks, wishlist additions, and external attention from streamers. The speaker explains how understanding and working with the algorithm is essential for a game's success.

💡Cohort conversion rate

Cohort conversion rate refers to the percentage of users who added a game to their wishlist and eventually bought it when the game was on sale. The speaker uses this metric to show that games with a long marketing cycle, like Cosmoteer, can maintain a steady conversion rate even after being wishlisted for years.

Highlights

The speaker explains how they recreate the scene by finding a bar on the internet, highlighting the virtual approach due to not being present.

The speaker runs a weekly blog on howtomarketagame.com and offers a free class on how to create a Steam page.

The speaker consults game developers, helping them understand the nuances of marketing games on Steam and navigating its culture.

Steam’s curation process starts even before a game is released for sale, as early as when a Steam page is created.

Games that get visibility spikes from big events like demos or streamer coverage often receive extra algorithm attention from Steam.

The speaker discusses ‘Steam blessing,’ where the platform’s algorithm pushes games that show significant external visibility in various widgets and discovery queues.

A demo or public beta launch can dramatically boost a game’s visibility and is one of the best ways to be ‘blessed’ by the Steam algorithm.

The speaker highlights that game developers should launch their Steam page and demo as early as possible to maximize their exposure and algorithm promotion.

Despite concerns from indie developers, the speaker argues that players don’t tire of games easily, even if the wishlist period is long.

Examples are provided of games like ‘Peglin’ and ‘Dome Keeper,’ which achieved significant visibility and success through demos and streamers.

Steam algorithmically suppresses games that don’t generate enough excitement or sales, creating a challenge for mid-tier indie developers stuck in a ‘sad indie zone.’

The speaker identifies the revenue threshold of $250,000 as the point where Steam begins to actively promote a game, which can lead to its success.

The speaker introduces the concept of 'real Steam'—the math-driven curation that boosts successful games while leaving less profitable ones behind.

A fun game with high external visibility can still succeed, even if it doesn’t have viral graphics, provided it receives enough algorithmic blessing.

The speaker provides a free book titled '60 Marketing Mistakes Every Indie Makes' to help developers avoid common pitfalls.

Transcripts

hi folks I'm sorry I can't be here live

I wish I could so I kind of recreated

the scene I looked it up on on the

internet this I I hope I got the right

bar and everything this this is the

right one I thought I could just pretend

to like sit at the at the things with

you all but I can't unfortunately so

this is the next best thing I could do I

if I was gonna be drinking anything this

looks really good I found this on Google

so somebody have one of these for me I

don't know what it is but I don't know

if you eat these or just lick them or

something but looks awesome I really

wish I was there it's also 6am so I

probably it would be really fun to drink

this at 6am all right so yeah like uh

like I said I I write uh I blog every

week at how to make us how to Market a

game.com I have a free class how to make

a steampage.com because everybody should

make a steam page

um and I've done a number of GDC talks

about like how games marketing works and

that sort of stuff

I uh consult so I've got a number of

clients that I've worked with

um you know it's kind of coaching them

on how to Market a game on Steam but

really what I do is I help them navigate

steam because it's a weird culture all

upon itself why you do some things or

not so I am going to do this uh talk

understanding Steam and kind of show you

where visibility comes from and this is

kind of this very specific thing I want

to talk about now uh people always talk

about oh there's so many games on Steam

uh so much junk bring back curation like

that's gonna fix everything but I don't

think it actually will because there's

some really cool stuff on here like I

you know I saw Oliver speaking very soon

here

um uh Thomas I think uh if you can tell

you more about this but you know I would

have if I was on some sort of curation

board I probably wouldn't have curated

vampire survivors in just at First Look

of this or anything uh there's cool

games where you just like build models I

wouldn't if I was on valve I probably

wouldn't curate this like who wants to

just build a model just go out there

kids go get it or this like this is an

actual game it's called Rule the waves

three I think database in the UK

actually I tried to email the guy and he

was from the UK so this looks like an

awesome game but look look how it looks

well I wouldn't have picked this one but

it did okay so some of these games I

would have never created That's What I

Love About Steam is stuff that you never

thought would be popular

and this is how steam does it there

there is some curation but everybody

doesn't realize it and let me kind of

show you this kind of secret curation

that's going on okay now they start

curating you even before sales and I'll

show you what even before you like put

your game on sale when you just have a

steam page let me let me kind of explain

what I mean by this

okay so I always survey uh my readers

and stuff just to kind of get data and I

said what's your resting impression rate

like how many Impressions do you get

every week and not when it's high

promotion not when you like ran a clean

camp like a really cool PR Campaign

which you'll hear about later in these

talks like really good PR that's the

exciting stuff everybody talks about I

don't like exciting stuff I like really

boring stuff so I said when you're doing

nothing how many Impressions does steam

give you in each one of these bars is a

different game and as you can see

there's a number of games that get so

many Impressions every seven days and

then there's pretty much everybody else

well there's like a there's a pretty

healthy impression right here like in

this mid tier and then there's kind of

everybody else

this is the steam curation working let

me let me show you exactly what's going

on here when steam sees something this

is the valve bouncer so there's a

there's a curation bouncer in Steam

and he's kind of looking out to see uh

which game should get all the attention

and which game should not and basically

these games get featured in all those

little widgets have you ever like really

browse steam a lot you'll see the same

games kind of over and over again that's

these games now I want to be clear all

these games are pre-released they have

not been up for sale they're not selling

like hotcakes or anything all of these

games are pre-release

this is not because this game made a

million dollars or something

now

what I have found studying enough games

you know people in my community working

for clients and stuff when you get a big

visibility shock and but by that I mean

like you do something big steam pays

attention the steam algorithm bouncer

curator whatever you want to call this

guy

pays attention and says whoa this game's

got it

and you can see it this is a game called

peglin This is their follower chart

every single day you can kind of see how

many followers they have which is very

closely tied to wishlists and you can

see nothing was going on nothing was

going on nothing was going on Boom

visibility shock and then the game just

took off and it just just Rose in the

algorithm also happened with Dome keeper

another game

this is their pre-shock very flat nuts

months and months nothing

then they put out a demo got 40 000 in

wishlists in a month because of

streamers like streamers played it over

and over again and the valve algorithm

blessed them and

the steam algorithm looked at it saw all

this external visibility and said oh my

goodness and then they kind of became

blessed right here you can see it I

didn't even need to put the arrow see

you can see it but this is when they

launched the demo right here and all

those streamers played it took right off

and the way that they bless you the

reason I say this isn't like oh

everybody's talking about this on

Twitter or something the way the steam

algorithm works is they feature you in

stuff like Discovery Cube this is a very

important little widget right here and

this other thing

which is more like this down on the

bottom of every steam page that matches

yours you can start ending up in here

this is what I call real Steam pre-real

steam really

um and this is blessed when you get

blessed by the algorithm that's where

your game starts showing up and this is

where those Impressions from those games

really come from so all these games like

right in this section here lest

this yeah kind of lightly blessed here

never been blessed these games the steam

algorithm doesn't know about these games

like they they have a steam page but the

algorithm is like tell us when you have

some visibility tell us when you do

something amazing

never been blessed they don't get any

Impressions this this is basically this

quadrant is where you kind of want to be

if you got a game coming up on Steam

okay so here's kind of what

once I got to figure out this is kind of

the new model that successful games are

really doing really and really pitching

so in the old days

the old way we used to do marketing was

there's pre-production where you're

working on your game and then maybe put

a steam page up

and then maybe if you're really smart

you did six months here of like having a

steam page up doing some PR stuff but

people would really focus on the pr

right here like right at the end

and then there would be a six uh just

right there that was it and then you'd

launch your game that was basically it

now

you would do that big visibility shock

and you become blessed right here

and then there'd only be two weeks of

being blessed two weeks we want a lot of

blessing we don't just have two weeks so

really kind of this new model is why not

just pull this back pull back the

blessing and so instead of just six

months you get your steam page up way

early way way early you get that demo

out Whaley which is one of the best ways

to get blessed by the way

and then you just sit in that blessed

zone for so long for months and months

and months none of this little two week

blessing no no we want the blessing for

months and months and months

and these are kind of what I have found

are enough to shock that algorithm to

make Steam go oh this is great we got to

bless this

um basically if you're a pro a previous

developer this is a little easier once

you have a hit game I know it's it's a

problem that oh man the the first rule

of success is be successful but

um if you can Cross promo do a daily

deal that's really good pretty if you

have a really pretty game

um viral Reddit post again Ask Thomas

about this uh with lacera hidden Kingdom

um very good very good um uh IGN

Gamespot major external Festival like an

E3 like one of those like PC Gamer shows

or if you have a fun fun game you get

your public beta out demo launch

prologue launch not everybody has a

pretty enough game to go viral on

Twitter Tick Tock it's just true not all

games but the fun thing that scene is

you don't have to have a pretty game

that goes viral on Twitter Tick Tock

Reddit you can do it with just a fun

game and those fun games really this

public beta demo your demo this I think

is the best way to get that goosing of

the algorithm and I'll show you here's

peglin I mean I love peglin beautiful

game not real like it's a good game

looks good but it's not one of those

games that goes viral it's pixel art

those rarely go viral viral

um but what they did was they launched

this demo right here and if you look at

their chart

pre-blessed blessed what we really want

to do is what if we could just like pull

back this period all the way to here and

then they're just riding this blessed

period and that's the new model is

extend this time period when it's like a

steam algorithm is pushing you

everywhere every widget you show up in

this is what you want to do pull this

back shorten this pre-blessed period

now

this is wearing these get real sad and

they're like oh won't they get tired of

me I don't want to get blessed too early

they don't get tired of me uh uh I don't

know why andies are always so sad about

that they're like oh if you do like me

you're gonna like me not for very long

that always hits me up so cosmateer was

this game it was one of those games

that's so fun they got their they just

put the whole game out for free on itch

while they Market it four and a half

years they had a steam page up okay and

I looked at their conversion rate which

is how when when they wish listed it's

called a cohort you can look it up on

Steam every red bar is a cohort that

means when somebody wish listed it back

here when they went on sale they

converted it about 20 as you can see

this red bars this is their conversion

rate throughout the four and a half

years it is pretty flat you would expect

if people got tired of you they would it

would like slowly ramp up in other words

like the people who wish listed it four

and a half years ago would convert lower

than the people who converted it through

wishlist to like six months before they

launched nope just about the same just

about the same

in fact I can't even tell can't even

tell where the where they are same thing

happened with zero receiver another

great game uh this is their Coho cohort

conversion rate throughout their

campaign they had a they weren't four

and a half years

but as you can see it doesn't matter one

of some of the best converting wishlist

occurred way at the beginning when it

first put their steam pouch up they got

blessed way back here when splattercat

played them

so really they don't get tired of us

look at this how long was Zelda out

how long did we wait at six and a half

six years people then say you know what

I'm tired of this game I don't want this

game anymore no it's still a hit

even though it took them like six years

to make the sequel

so if you can get blessed before you go

on sale awesome

but what about after you're on sale this

is kind of

this is curation getting worked on okay

um

this is in 2022 this is the indie game

Revenue

okay this is kind of what they earned

over time

this is all the games that released in

2022. I'm sorry explain this better

um and as you can see it's hockey stick

it's a hockey stick of a hockey stick of

a hockey stick the 93rd percentile of

games will earn a hundred thousand

dollars

the 99th percentile will earn 1.8

million dollars it's a hockey stick this

the median is about a thousand dollars

this is curation this is how Steam

curates games out they let you publish

they let you sell your game you can put

whatever you want on scene they'll

publish it but what they do is they

essentially smother the games that they

don't think or were they and they do it

algorithmically

basically

I call it real steam so here's the

bouncer the valve algorithm curator he

only lets in certain games

and in my bet I see this a lot I've

worked on some of these games you'll see

these games that are very positive but

they stall out like 150 reviews

200 reviews this this is this is sad

this is I see this all the time and

people are like what I have so many

positive reviews why aren't I selling

they got curated out in my experience

games that are in about under 250 000

gross

you know pre-steam cut

lifetime you know it could be like

within a year or so but once games kind

of get over 250 000 dollars

gross revenue

steam puts them everywhere they start

getting through it and I really think

this 250-ish now don't quote Steam on

this on valve it valves in there or

anything if you're having anyone like

250. it's kind of rough I don't know

what it is but usually when you apply

for something like a daily deal you

apply and valve goes oh we'll check it

out see how your numbers are looking

there's a number of factors but I always

find it's a 250 250k is kind of the rule

now

what I find is here here's logarithmic

scale to make it a little easier to see

there's kind of this Indie zone right

around here let me let me zoom in a

little bit this is where those games get

stuck at about 150 to 500 reviews

this is that sad Indie Zone where it's

uh it's I this is what's so frustrating

About Steam and I hate it and that's why

I want to explain this today you're

doing pretty good like awesome 150

reviews is nothing to get you know sad

about but you kind of get stuck in the

spot where it's like you're mostly

positive or very positive and you're

like why and you just didn't get enough

for valve to really start paying

attention

this is the curation in effect and I

hate this but for whatever reason valve

just doesn't want to promote games that

kind of earn in this mid tier like these

are kind of like asset flips hobbyist

games you know they're you see them when

you know you're like yeah it's

definitely the obvious game but this

this is the zone of sadness right here I

really don't like this but I I don't

know this is this is just to explain

though I don't know what to tell you but

this is kind of what what happens when

you're like God why am I I'm stuck at

200 reviews and they're all positive

everybody loves me but the sales just

weren't fast enough exciting enough to

get a valve past that bouncer

okay and the reason is valve no it's

like if they're gonna hold up two games

and one game sells as soon as it's seen

in the other game it's like well not as

always doesn't sell as well

they um they don't have they don't make

as much money when they show that the

game that is real steam okay that that's

a secret so real steam it's math it's

being blessed it's it's magic it's

getting past the bouncer okay

now

how do you get into real steam okay so

first it's your game that's that's the

one it it has to be the game it's always

the game there's no there's no one weird

trick there's no one hashtag you can use

your game has to be beautiful or if it's

not beautiful so fun that once people

start playing it they're just like I

can't get enough of this it's just like

so fun and that's it the marketing this

kind of where I come in but it it really

is the game like I wish I could take

credit for a lot of this stuff but I

can't it's it's the game so

um that's it

um

uh you just want to get blessed that's

amazing thing if I can tell you anything

like get that nice and early try and

maximize that time that you're blessed

um if you you like this I I have a free

book for you it's like 60 marketing

mistakes so it's gonna put a nice

picture I realized I didn't put that up

there uh 60 marketing mistakes every

ending makes it's a book that tells you

how to avoid the 60 mistakes that I've

identified how to Market a game.com free

to get it

um oh and I'm I'm gonna normally sell

this stuff but

Thursday I only do this two times a year

in the summer and at on in November I

put this class on deep discount so if

you sign up make sure this Thursday it's

gone sale you'll get a reminder if you

sign up on on this but my class like

super deep discount only time of the

year so I wanted to time it perfectly

with uh today but I couldn't so it is

Thursday when that thing's gonna go on

sale but that's it I don't know if we

have time for questions

um but thank you for having me maybe

I'll just go back to uh uh questions or

I'll just um silently watch everybody

that's that a lot creepier it just means

that I'm gonna be on the zoom call while

everybody else gives a talks and I won't

be drinking unfortunately so

oh unfortunately I can't hear you I

don't know why but I cannot hear you

yes I can right do you do one-on-one

Zoom calls

I do

um just hit me up I they're called

office hours and you could book an

office hour and I just review what your

plans are I answer any question you want

but I do uh an hour uh Zoom call with

people it's a pretty reasonably priced

price for Indies so uh just hit me up on

social media or something uh but how to

marketinggame.com you can find my

contact information on there