Sofa Sessions: Conversations with Martin Parr - Alec Soth

Summary

In this interview, renowned photographer Alec Soth reflects on his journey from a quiet and introverted child in Minnesota to becoming a celebrated artist. He discusses his early experiences with photography, the evolution of his work from large format color to black and white, and his transition into editorial photography. Soth also shares insights into his process for his latest project, which focuses on building meaningful connections with his subjects before capturing their portraits. He touches on the ethical considerations of photography, particularly regarding the distribution and commercialization of his work.

Takeaways

• 😀 Alec Soth was a quiet and polite child with no interest in travel, preferring to stay at home.
• 🎨 Soth discovered photography in college, initially through painting and then through creating outdoor sculptures and earthworks.
• 📸 His first photography inspiration was Robert Adams, which led him to explore photography seriously.
• 🏫 Soth had difficulty getting into a photography class in college but eventually studied under Joel Sternfeld, who became a significant supporter of his work.
• 🏆 Soth's work gained recognition after winning a prize and being included in the Whitney Biennial, which led to a shift in his career path.
• 📚 His book 'Sleeping by the Mississippi' started as a personal project and evolved into a published work after winning a prize and gaining interest from publishers.
• 🌏 Joining Magnum Photos was not initially on Soth's radar, but after being introduced to the community, he applied and was accepted, which broadened his photographic experiences.
• 🖤 Soth transitioned from color to black and white photography for his 'Songbook' project, aiming for a journalistic and social commentary style.
• 🤝 For his latest portraits, Soth focused on building relationships and spending time with his subjects, aiming for a more collaborative and less predatory approach.
• 🖼️ Soth is mindful of the ethics of photography, particularly in the distribution of his work, and ensures that his subjects receive a copy of their portrait.

Q & A

What was Alec Soth's childhood like?

Alec Soth was a very quiet, polite, and homebody child. He didn't sneak out of the house, didn't drink, and had no real interest in travel.

How did Alec Soth discover photography?

Alec Soth discovered photography in college through an art teacher who introduced him to painting, which led him to start doing sculptures outdoors and earthworks, and subsequently photographing them.

Who were some of the early influences on Alec Soth's photography?

Robert Adams was an early influence on Alec Soth, particularly with Adams' work 'Summer Nights'.

Did Alec Soth study photography in college?

Alec Soth initially couldn't get into a photography class in college, but he took a summer course with Jim Hinkle and later got into Joel Sternfeld's class.

What was Joel Sternfeld's initial reaction to Alec Soth's work?

Joel Sternfeld was immediately a big supporter of Alec Soth's work and tried to get him into a show at MoMA with his early studio work.

How did the 'Sleeping by the Mississippi' project emerge?

The 'Sleeping by the Mississippi' project emerged after Alec Soth was working on a different project that involved photographing one picture leading to another. He made a picture along the Mississippi River and decided to shift his focus to that.

How long did it take Alec Soth to complete the 'Sleeping by the Mississippi' project?

Alec Soth worked on the 'Sleeping by the Mississippi' project for about three years.

What was the significance of the book dummy Alec Soth made for 'Sleeping by the Mississippi'?

Alec Soth made a book dummy of 'Sleeping by the Mississippi' before he knew it would be published. He made 25 copies of it, which he gave to different reviewers and eventually led to its publication.

How did Alec Soth's life change after the success of 'Sleeping by the Mississippi'?

After the success of 'Sleeping by the Mississippi', Alec Soth's life changed dramatically. He was included in the Whitney Biennial, received many calls, and had to leave his job at an art museum to focus on his photography.

What led Alec Soth to join Magnum Photos?

Alec Soth was not initially interested in joining Magnum Photos, but after meeting Nathan Bend and looking into the community, he applied and was accepted after a close vote.

What was Alec Soth's approach to portraiture in his latest work?

In his latest work, Alec Soth wanted to build a relationship with his subjects before taking their portraits. He would spend time with them, have conversations, and ensure they were aware of how the picture might be used.

How does Alec Soth address the ethical concerns in photography?

Alec Soth believes that the biggest ethical problems in photography come not from taking the picture but from its distribution. He ensures that he gives a copy of the portrait to the subject and is mindful of how the image is used and sold.

Outlines

00:00

📸 Early Life and Discovering Photography

The interview begins with Alec Soth discussing his childhood and how he was a quiet, polite, and introverted kid with no interest in traveling. Born and raised in Minnesota, Soth found his passion for photography in college, where he initially explored painting and sculpture before discovering the medium that resonated with him. His first inspiration came from Robert Adams' work, which led him to start taking photographs at night. Despite not being able to get into a photography class, he eventually took a summer course with Jim Hinkle and later with Joel Sternfeld, who became a significant supporter of his work, even though Soth initially tried to distance himself from Sternfeld's style to find his own voice.

05:01

📚 The Journey to 'Sleeping by the Mississippi'

Alec Soth talks about his early career in Minnesota, working various jobs unrelated to photography, and his gradual shift towards focusing on his own photography projects. He started a project that involved photographing in a way that resembled web surfing in the real world, where one image would lead to another. This eventually led him to photograph along the Mississippi River, which became the focus of his project. He self-published a small edition of 25 book dummies, not expecting it to be published. However, his work gained recognition, leading to a prize, portfolio reviews, and an essay by Tucker from MFA Houston. Soth's participation in the Whitney Biennial marked a turning point in his career, prompting him to leave his job and pursue photography full-time.

10:03

🤝 Joining Magnum and Shifting to Black and White

Soth shares his experience of joining Magnum Photos, a significant milestone in his career. Initially not considering himself a war photographer, he was recommended to apply by Nathan Bend. After a close vote, he became a member, with Martin Parr advocating for him. Soth found the community at Magnum to be a rich source of inspiration and a contrast to his previous experiences in the art world. He also discusses his transition from color to black and white photography for his project 'Songbook,' aiming for a journalistic look at social life in America. He wanted to evoke the feel of early press photography, using flash and black and white to handle various lighting conditions and neutralize colors, which allowed him to work quickly and capture the essence of his subjects.

15:05

🖼️ The Evolution of Portraiture and Ethical Considerations

Alec Soth discusses his approach to portraiture in his latest work, emphasizing the importance of building a relationship with his subjects before taking their pictures. He wanted to move away from the predatory nature of quick, street photography and instead spend time with people, explaining his intentions and involving them in the process. Soth would often ask his subjects how they would like to be photographed, creating a collaborative atmosphere. He learned that while taking control in the creation of art is necessary, it can be balanced with respect for the subject. Soth also reflects on the ethical implications of photography, particularly the distribution of the images, and how the context in which a photograph is presented can change its meaning and impact on the subject.

20:07

🎁 The Importance of Giving Back

In the final paragraph, Soth talks about his practice of giving a copy of the portrait to the subjects, which he sees as a way to alleviate some of the guilt he feels about the commercial success of his work. He shares a humorous anecdote about how he used to send pictures to people without fully explaining the context, which he believes led to bad karma. With 'Sleeping by the Mississippi,' he made a conscious decision to send a copy to every subject, and he continues this practice as a way to give back and maintain a personal connection with those who allow him to capture their likeness.

Keywords

💡introspective

Introspective refers to the quality of being self-reflective or examining one's own thoughts and feelings. In the script, the art teacher noticed Alec Soth as an introspective kid, which implies that he was deep in thought and had a rich inner life. This characteristic likely contributed to his later success as a photographer, as introspection can lead to profound and meaningful artistic expression.

💡photography

Photography is the art, science, and practice of creating durable images by recording light or other electromagnetic radiation, either electronically by means of an image sensor, or chemically by means of a light-sensitive material such as photographic film. In the script, photography is central to Alec Soth's journey from a quiet, introverted individual to a renowned artist. His discovery of photography in college and subsequent development of his unique style are key themes of the video.

💡Robert Adams

Robert Adams is a noted American photographer known for his work in capturing the changing American West. In the script, Soth mentions Adams as a significant influence, particularly through his work 'Summer Nights,' which inspired Soth to explore photography as a medium for expressing his artistic vision.

💡large format camera

A large format camera is a type of camera that uses large sheets of film to produce high-resolution negatives. In the script, Soth discusses his association with large format cameras, which became a defining characteristic of his early work. This technology allowed him to create highly detailed images that contributed to his signature style.

💡Sleeping by the Mississippi

Sleeping by the Mississippi is Alec Soth's first major published book, which features a collection of photographs taken along the Mississippi River. The script describes how this project evolved from a broader endeavor to one focused on the river, marking a pivotal moment in Soth's career and establishing his reputation as a photographer.

💡Magnum Photos

Magnum Photos is a distinguished photographic cooperative owned by its member photographers, known for its documentary photography. In the script, Soth's journey to becoming a member of Magnum Photos is discussed, highlighting the significance of this achievement and the impact it had on his career, including increased international exposure and opportunities.

💡black and white

Black and white photography refers to images that are composed exclusively of shades of gray ranging from black to white. In the script, Soth's shift from color to black and white photography is highlighted as a way to work more quickly and to evoke a journalistic style, reflecting a desire to capture social life in America with a more immediate and raw aesthetic.

💡ethics of photography

The ethics of photography encompass the moral principles that guide photographers in their work, particularly concerning the representation and use of images. In the script, Soth discusses the ethical considerations of portraiture, emphasizing the importance of respect and consent in his interactions with subjects and the subsequent distribution of his work.

💡portraiture

Portraiture is a genre of photography that focuses on capturing the likeness and expression of a person. In the script, Soth's approach to portraiture is explored, particularly his method of building relationships with his subjects before photographing them. This approach contrasts with more spontaneous or 'predatory' methods and reflects a deeper engagement with his subjects.

💡book dummy

A book dummy is a mock-up of a book's layout, used for planning the final product. In the script, Soth mentions creating a book dummy for 'Sleeping by the Mississippi,' which he initially produced in a limited edition of 25 copies. This action was instrumental in attracting the attention of publishers and reviewers, leading to the book's eventual publication and success.

💡Whitney Biennial

The Whitney Biennial is a recurring exhibition showcasing contemporary American art at the Whitney Museum of American Art in New York. In the script, Soth's inclusion in the Whitney Biennial is mentioned as a significant milestone in his career, providing him with exposure and recognition in the art world.

Highlights

Alec Soth discusses his preference for being called 'Alec' instead of 'Alex'.

Soth shares his introverted and polite childhood, being a homebody with no interest in travel.

His initial exposure to art was through painting in high school, which led to his discovery of photography.

Soth's first influential photographer was Robert Adams, whose work inspired him to explore photography.

He initially struggled to get into a photography class in college but eventually studied under Joel Sternfeld.

Sternfeld was a significant supporter of Soth's work, despite it being unfashionable at the time.

Soth's early work was influenced by stage photography and artists like Cindy Sherman and Gregory Crewdson.

The origin of his 'Sleeping by the Mississippi' project and its transition from a general exploration to a river-focused series.

Soth's method of working involved a slow and deliberate approach, spending time with subjects before photographing them.

He created an early book dummy of 'Sleeping by the Mississippi', which was self-published in a limited edition of 25 copies.

Winning a prize led to portfolio reviews where he distributed his book dummy, garnering interest from publishers.

Soth's experience with Magnum Photos, including his narrow admission and the community aspect of the collective.

His transition from color to black and white photography for his 'Songbook' project, influenced by journalistic styles.

Soth's ethical considerations in photography, particularly regarding the distribution and commercialization of his work.

His practice of giving a copy of the portrait to every subject as a way to address ethical concerns and personal guilt.

Soth's latest work focuses on building relationships and taking time with subjects, moving away from a predatory approach.

The importance of conversation and consent in his portraiture process, allowing subjects to be aware and involved.

Transcripts

so I'm on the couch with Alec Soth's

it's

as in both I want remember you saying

that because some people call you Alex

off yeah and I've been on a campaign and

it's working there you go yeah

so welcome to the foundation I want to

go right the way back so tell us where

you were naughty or a very good kid when

you were broke I was such a boring good

kid

yes very quiet very polite I wasn't I

didn't sneak out of the house and I

wasn't a drinker no very good and

interestingly I was a homebody and and

had no real interest in travel so this

idea of like traveling the globe was not

in me and it's sort of still not in me

strangely so you're home kick really I

am yeah yeah and I if I had my way I

would be a studio artist and I would

never leave the house every time I meet

you you're away from the house and it's

a real problem no my life is full of

contradictions there you go so here we

are being brought up were you actually

brought up in Minnesota born and raised

in Minnesota yeah there you go

and when did you first discover

photography and the pleasures there off

uh it was it was really in college I in

high school I had an art teacher that

saw this weird kid very introspective

kid and kind of knew something was

happening back there and and through

painting you know he handed me a

paintbrush and exposed me to some some

work and that kind of opened my eyes to

the world but here's the thing is I

wasn't I was never comfortable in the

studio they it always felt off so then I

started doing these sculptures outdoors

and earthworks started photographing

those and then discovered photography

itself and really the the first one was

Robert Adams I saw summer nights I

thought oh that I could do that I could

walk around at night and soon I was

doing it so did you then continue to go

to college and study photography you

well you actually I would this was no no

this is in yeah in college in my junior

year I started I couldn't get into a

photography class so Joel Sternfeld

taught photography at the school that I

went to I couldn't get into his class so

I took a summer course with him no no

sorry when I was home in Minnesota in

the summer with a guy named Jim Hinkle

and and then eventually I got into

Joel's class but the funny thing about

Joel is that he and at that time it was

not cool to do photography like him or

Road photography so I did this very

pretentious stage studio terrible work

but then when I would leave school on

vacation I would take road trips and

this was the beginning and did he

recognize immediately you had something

that was gonna make you into an

interesting photographer he was he was

immediately a big supporter of mine yeah

he was really pushing me along but he

loved that terrible studio work he tried

to get me into a show at like MoMA or

something with this terrible studio work

I know thank God it didn't happen that

sounds like a lapse of bad taste from

mr. Steinfeld well it was cool at the

time you know what I mean

it was Cindy Sherman was all the rage

mm-hmm Gregory Crutzen was just starting

and and that was a for me was a big

lesson is to is to not give in to what's

cool and for me to work through

influence yeah busiest people were all

stage photography's Sherman cruising

yeah but I was also I was a you know I

was embarrassed to do work that was like

Joel's work and that was so obviously

derivative of all these American masters

but it I felt that I had eventually I

after I left college I thought I just

need to do this and work through it and

and in fact eventually one finds their

own voice it's just but it's within a

tradition and then how did the sleeping

by the Mississippi project emerge so yes

so I was living in Minnesota just doing

different jobs for about 10 years and I

was always chugging away at my own

photography and when you say various

jobs you mean jobs as a photographer or

were you working a bar

uh yeah either sew it up tomorrow's

photography related darkroom jobs

usually but I found that whenever I did

it as a job I ended up hating it you

know so there was a certain point at

which I was offered a pretty good job as

a studio photographer and I thought that

this could kill me this could kill my

love and so I turned that down and I

kept working in in dark rooms and

eventually digital imaging I worked for

an art museum for a number of years and

and I was making work and I started this

project that was kind of it was sort of

like web surfing but in the real world

and one picture leading to another

leading to another and along the way I

made a picture along the Mississippi

River and I decided to shift the project

and and make that work along the

Mississippi but it's not you know it

wasn't a documentary of the Mississippi

River how do you spend shooting the

Mississippi pictures several years but

of course I wasn't on the road all that

time was taking breaks from my job etc

so yeah I did that work

yeah about three years and the right

person recommended me to another person

and um and so but you made this very

early sort of book dummy of this maybe

in fact you made it into an edition was

it 25 I think it's something like 25

yeah I mean the story behind the book I

mean I always wanted to make a book I

didn't know

I wasn't as fully aware of this world I

mean I I loved books but I didn't know

all of the book dummies out there and

inkjet technology made it much easier to

make one right so it wasn't that big of

a deal and I really legitimately thought

well no one's ever gonna publish this so

so I'll just make 25 of them and I ended

up winning of prize and as part of this

prize I get to go to these portfolio

reviews and it was there that I gave

different reviewers copies of them and

sent an Tucker from MFA Houston one she

agreed to write an essay kind of

simultaneous to all this I got into the

Whitney Biennial and then I was off and

running is give us title that saw the

book was it shown to him or did he this

would be stumbled across you at a fair

reviews oh no so yeah what happened in

that case is at the portfolio review I

had a couple different publishers very

interested thus I was able to use that

and then go to steidel and say you know

people want me will you and it worked

so will you completely amazed when you

began to realize the success that the

project actually was enjoying with the

publication of this book I was though I

mean I'll be honest where I didn't know

that the book had become something

because it sold out very quickly which

was great but there weren't that many

copies to start with and we didn't

actually reprint it for a very long time

but I was in this Whitney Biennial

yeah my whole life changed and I was

working I had this job as I mentioned an

art museum and I was getting so many

calls all day long that I had to leave

the job but which I of course I wanted

to do but I was terrified because I

didn't I didn't have a master's degree

in photography so I couldn't get a

teaching job and I I knew enough to know

that the art world is not

in a safe place and that this is not

sustainable so I thought you know what

am I gonna do and so it was at that

point that I really started doing

editorial photography I hadn't done any

previous to that and is that what led

owned your interest in joining Magnum it

is so I never I was not the kid you know

just in the same way that it wasn't

daydreaming about you know backpacking

across Europe I wasn't you know in love

with Kappa and the whole tradition and I

met Nathan Bend and he recommended

Magnum Magnum like I'm not I'm not a war

photographer but then I looked into it

and because I it was just completely not

in my universe and I thought oh there

are all these other interesting people

okay this may be this is a possibility

and then at that point I applied and as

you know very nearly didn't get in it is

I mean there is a whole club in Magnum

that squeezed in by one vote and you and

I are finding solid members of this well

in and in fact I mean the story goes

this probably should be edited out but

but the story goes that because I you

know one applies to your local office I

applied to New York and and then I was

given this call saying it's not going

forward New York isn't bringing you

forward and then they're from the

meeting I was told that Martin Parr said

well I thought you were bringing this

Alec Soth character and and then I was

presented and then I just barely got in

whether or not that's true

it is indeed true because I remember is

Philip Jones Griffiths ah who ultimately

was a person who tried to stop me

joining Magnum so it's enough something

else we have in common you know so it

must be a really good club to be a

member of you never said a word to me in

the time that he was here so you joined

Magnum and you

it becomes the medians he met the the

players of Magnum was it as you expected

or was it quite different I mean the

great

the thing about Magnum that I realized

right away is that oh it's a community

it's not it's not just this agency it's

this whole community and and of these

different characters and so the first

meeting that I went to one just sits

back and I see young photographers doing

this now and you just take it all in all

these different voices and for me the

big relief was that I was you know I was

making a living largely in the art world

and and just being exposed to this whole

other universe of photography I found

very healthy yeah yeah so more than

anything it was a community of people

and and then it internationalized my

work in a way so I did more you know

more traveling more exhibitions more

talks around the world and then he went

to he did some book you went back from

color back to black most people of

course go from black and white to color

yes so what made you think that white uh

by the time I did songbook I've been

working in large format color for a

while and you know it's a frustrating

thing about photography is that it's

always identified with the technology so

you know a writer doesn't get it you

know identified verse which typewriter

they use and even a filmmaker they don't

talk really about what camera they use

but it understandably photography you

know it's rude this medium and and I was

so identified with the large format

camera but in those ten years of working

prior to sleeping by the Mississippi I

was working mostly black and white

mostly medium format camera so I had

this other language inside of me and at

that point I wanted to make work that

was that was more

journalistic looking about social life

in America I was collaborating with the

writer we were moving quickly through

the landscape and so this this new

digital technology and black and white

enabled me to work quickly and you

always copied the sort of mentality of

the local newspaper I mean that was one

of the things that you explained at the

time yes is that correct yeah no that's

the idea is that by using both I mean in

my experience because I had once had a

job as a suburban newspaper photographer

and you know when you work as then

especially as a newspaper photographer

use flash because you can handle any

situation it's backlit you can deal with

it and black-and-white also has this

quality so someone's wearing a hideous

orange shirt you know sort of

neutralizes things and I'd like that and

I was also trying to evoke press

photography particularly early press

photography because I was using very

happy flash mm-hm let's just talk now

about the book that's just come out yeah

yeah I know how furiously your heart is

beating thank you yes this is ultimately

a collection of portraits but these

portraits it seems to me are ones where

you've actually enjoyed and matured the

encounter with the people so it's not

just whipping in finding someone on your

journey

exactly yeah moksu tell us a bit about

this relationship that you build up and

it how indeed you find the subjects for

your latest portraits right um well when

I started I was determined not I wasn't

doing a project that's the thing I

wasn't I wasn't doing a book in fact on

purpose 1:33 fool yeah I was it was like

I was kind of starting all over as a

photographer and I just wanted to make

photographs and I thought okay maybe

there will be a catalogue that goes with

an exhibition and I just yeah I just

wanted to get back to the basics and I

wanted to work in a different way in

terms of

we encountered people so I didn't want

to just snatch them off the street and

and I had kind of built up through all

these years of editorial photography I

built up all these skills where I could

you know sort of wrangle someone into a

picture very quickly uh and and it it

began feeling kind of predatory to me

and I wanted to stop that and so I want

to take my time and I also wanted the

subject be as aware as possible of how

the picture might be used etc so the way

I've worked is that when I traveled like

Here I am in Bristol I am I would have I

would have reached out to you or to

anyone else I know in Bristol say hey

I'm gonna be here do you know of anyone

that might be interesting to photograph

this is the way I'm working I'm spending

more time etc you might recommend

someone to me I see a picture of them I

get put in touch and then I explained to

them everything I'm doing so all that's

taken care of so that then I can come in

into their home and sit down on the

couch like this and have a conversation

before ever pulling out the camera I

mean is a conversation of ours you know

could be half an hour an hour or

something like that then I pull out the

camera but I might say to them you know

how would you like to be photographed

and know which is not to say that I

wasn't directing the picture but they I

thought of it as as being you know sort

of a dance in which I was leading and

have you ever sat down with someone so I

didn't really want to do this picture

but I'm doing it because meet sets up

yes sure absolutely I mean one of the

problems that I had is that in setting

them up in advance so if I called you

and if you know my work so you might

find some wacky character for me and in

fact that's what I wasn't looking for so

sometimes that that would happen and in

that case I might just photograph their

home what have you I also

I didn't take pictures sometimes or if

the person felt at all uncomfortable I

wasn't I was trying not to push it and I

can't I was like trying to not like

serve the market and any sort of way

what have you learned about the whole

process of portraiture through this

project you think yeah that's a great

question um I mean in the end I because

before I started that I did this

experiment where I spent time with

people without taking a picture it's

it's a long story but and I learned that

you you can't really make art very

effectively if you're if you don't take

some measure of control you know and so

I I learned that yes I do need to lead

in the dance but I can also be

respectful and these two things can go

hand in hand but it's but and I know I

want to say this on camera

well I learned that the biggest ethical

problems come in not in the making of

the work but in its distribution so it's

yeah and they're putting me in a

distribution platform is it was

established you do look it is but no

matter how much you explain to someone

if a picture goes on the wall and it's

$25,000 that changes the meaning of the

picture and and there's a lot of

discussion about the ethics of

photography the ethics of photographing

someone the street I really the taking a

picture is of someone on the street

isn't a problem it's putting it on the

internet or it's selling it in a gallery

that was smart you must feel guilty that

your pictures are now so expensive I

well I mean I wake up feeling guilty I

mean you know I'm you know I'm not

Catholic I'm not Jewish but I

it's in me the guilt so I assumed to

appease your guilt you give everyone a

copy the portrait I do I do absolutely

yeah

no a funny story about that is that the

before sleeping by the Mississippi you

know I was and I was a young

photographer figuring things out and I

would say I would send a copy of the

picture but I wouldn't you know and I

had some just built up bad karma and so

with sleeping by the Mississippi I said

that's it I'm gonna send every single

person a copy and I did almost never

heard back from them and and with this

project I was yeah very good about that

link boy see what you were a good boy I

was a very good boy thank you I used to

learn parts that I was a good boy thank

you that's very nice very good way to

finish yes thank you