How iPod was created | Tony Fadell and Lex Fridman

Summary

The transcript details the passion for music and technological innovation that led to the creation of the iPod. It discusses the individual's love for rock music, the evolution from playing music at home to DJing, and the technological advancements like MP3s and mobile computing devices that laid the groundwork. The narrative further explores the design process of the iPod, including the engineering challenges, the importance of user experience, and the strategic marketing decisions by Apple to support the product.

Takeaways

• 🎶 A passion for music from an early age was a driving force behind the creation of the iPod.
• 🔌 The desire to摆脱 heavy physical media like CDs and tapes led to the concept of a portable digital music player.
• 💡 The convergence of technology such as MP3 format, flash memory, and mobile computing devices paved the way for the iPod's development.
• 🎧 Innovations like the Nino and Velo from Philips, which focused on audio books, laid the groundwork for the iPod's audio capabilities.
• 🔄 The importance of a user-friendly interface and seamless experience was crucial in the iPod's design and its integration with iTunes.
• 📈 The iPod's development was a risk for Apple, considering the company's financial situation and market position at the time.
• 🚀 Steve Jobs' commitment to allocate significant marketing resources to the iPod project demonstrates the company's belief in its potential.
• 🔧 The process of creating the iPod involved extensive research, prototyping, and consideration of various components such as storage, battery life, and form factor.
• 🤝 Collaboration between different teams at Apple, including the iTunes team led by Jeff Robbin, was essential in bringing the iPod to market.
• 🛠️ The design process of the iPod was iterative, involving both physical mockups and digital design tools to refine the product's form and function.
• 🎉 The success of the iPod was not just in its technology but also in its ability to transform the way people consumed and carried their music.

Q & A

What was the individual's early relationship with music like?

The individual had a deep love for music since childhood, starting from the second grade when they got their first albums. Their taste in music was heavily influenced by American and British rock and roll, with bands like Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick, Styx, and Ted Nugent being among their favorites.

How did the individual's passion for music evolve over time?

Their passion for music continued to grow, leading them to become a DJ in college and later in Silicon Valley. They were always surrounded by music and even played it loudly, to the point of causing damage to their earring and still suffering from it today. They also enjoyed the diverse music scenes in Detroit and loved listening to the radio late at night.

What was the individual's involvement with the Philips Nino and Velo products?

The individual worked on the Philips Nino and Velo products, which were early mobile computing devices. The Nino was the first device to put audible books on tape, and they collaborated with Audible to store the books in DRAM. The idea of putting books on a mobile device was considered brilliant and transformative for human progress.

How did the emergence of MP3s impact the individual's thinking about music storage?

The advent of MP3s allowed for significant compression of audio files, making it possible to store more music in less space. This was a game-changer for the individual, as it meant that thousands of songs could be stored on a device, paving the way for the creation of a portable music player like the iPod.

What were some of the challenges the individual faced when designing the iPod?

Some challenges included creating a compact form factor, selecting the right storage and battery options, and ensuring the device felt substantial and solid in hand. The individual also had to consider the user interface and the overall user experience, while dealing with doubts about whether the product was even feasible at scale.

How did the individual overcome the initial doubts about creating the iPod?

The individual overcame doubts by using their experience from previous projects and focusing on the most important aspects of the project, such as battery life, interface, and cost. They also conducted extensive research by tearing apart competitive products and understanding the market landscape.

What was the significance of the iPod in relation to iTunes?

The iPod and iTunes were designed to complement each other; the iPod was the device for playing music, while iTunes was the platform for managing and purchasing music. This integration was crucial for the success of both products and helped propel Apple into a new era of music consumption.

How did Steve Jobs support the iPod project?

Steve Jobs showed his commitment to the iPod project by promising to allocate a significant portion of Apple's marketing budget to promote the iPod. He saw the potential in the product and was willing to invest heavily in its success.

What was the state of Apple when the iPod was being conceptualized?

At the time the iPod was being conceptualized, Apple was a much smaller company with a more cautious and conservative approach. It was not the financial powerhouse it is today, and the decision to invest heavily in the iPod was a bold move.

How did the individual ensure the iPod would feel substantial and rigid in hand?

The individual created weighted styrofoam models of the iPod to mimic its weight and feel. They also focused on distributing the mass in a way that would make the device feel solid and substantial, akin to the satisfying thunk of a car door closing.

What was the role of iTunes in the iPod's success?

iTunes played a crucial role in the iPod's success by providing a seamless platform for users to manage and purchase music. The integration of iTunes with the iPod created a unique and user-friendly experience that set it apart from competitors.

What was the individual's strategy for dealing with the various components and trade-offs involved in designing the iPod?

The individual approached the design process by considering all the components and their trade-offs, focusing on achieving the best local maximum of the overall experience. They iterated between the details and the rough design, using both physical models and 3D design tools to refine the product.

Outlines

00:00

🎶 The Birth of the iPod: A Passion for Music

The narrative begins with the creator's deep-rooted love for music since childhood, highlighting the influence of classic rock bands like Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick, Styx, and Ted Nugent. The creator's early experiences with music include hacking a clock radio to listen without disturbing others and the impact of diverse musical genres in Detroit. The conversation touches on the 'greatest classic rock song of all time,' with 'Stairway to Heaven' being a notable mention. The creator's journey with music continued into college as a DJ and later into the tech industry, where the idea of combining music with mobile computing devices like the Philips Nino was revolutionary. The discussion emphasizes the significance of audio experiences and the creator's vision for a device that could store and play music conveniently.

05:01

📚 From Audible Books to Music: The Evolution of Portable Media

This segment delves into the creator's work with the Philips Nino and the idea of putting audible books on tape, which later evolved into the concept of storing music. The advent of MP3 format and its ability to significantly reduce file size is highlighted, enabling the storage of more music on portable devices. The creator's realization of the potential for a device that could carry thousands of songs is discussed, along with the challenges and innovations in storage, battery life, and user interface design. The narrative also touches on the importance of human collaboration and the transformative effects of inventions like Wikipedia, emphasizing the role of technology in unlocking human knowledge and progress.

10:04

🛠️ Designing the iPod: A Blend of Engineering and Intuition

The process of designing the iPod is detailed, from the initial concept and selection of components to the creation of a physical prototype. The creator's approach involved considering various types of batteries, memory, processors, and display options, as well as the challenges of fitting everything into a compact form factor. The importance of the device's feel and substance is emphasized, with the creator using physical models to simulate the weight and density of the final product. The iterative process of design, including the use of 3D tools and the examination of competitor products, is discussed, highlighting the creator's meticulous attention to detail and the need to balance multiple constraints and variables.

15:05

💡 Overcoming Doubt and the Risks of Innovation

The creator shares his internal struggles with doubt and the risks associated with developing the iPod. The challenges of convincing oneself and others of the feasibility of the project are discussed, along with the need to maintain credibility and confidence. The creator's previous experiences and learnings from General Magic and Philips are mentioned as valuable in managing the development process. The conversation also touches on the state of Apple at the time, including its financial situation and market position, and the significant risks involved in committing resources to the iPod project. The creator's concerns about competing with industry giants like Sony and the importance of marketing and retail strategy are also highlighted.

20:07

🎵 The iPod and iTunes: A Perfect Harmony

The relationship between the iPod and iTunes is explored, with the origins of iTunes as a MP3 player app for the Mac and its evolution into a platform for music management and consumption. The creator's involvement in the project post-six weeks is discussed, along with the vision of Steve Jobs and Jeff Robbin for integrating the iPod with iTunes. The strategic decision to allocate marketing resources to the iPod and iTunes is highlighted, emphasizing the belief in the product's potential to revolutionize the music industry. The discussion also covers the challenges of working with Apple's limited resources at the time and the critical role of the iPod in attracting new users to the Mac platform, ultimately setting the stage for Apple's future success.

Keywords

💡iPod

The iPod is a portable media player designed and marketed by Apple Inc. It was a revolutionary product that combined a hard drive-based portable music player with a user interface that was intuitive and easy to use. In the context of the video, the iPod's creation is attributed to the love for music and the desire to have a portable device that could store and play a large number of songs. The iPod's introduction changed the way people listened to music and marked a significant shift in the music industry.

💡Music Passion

A strong affection or enthusiasm for music is evident throughout the video. The individual's love for music began in their childhood and continued into adulthood, influencing their career choices and eventually leading to their involvement in the creation of the iPod. This passion is what drove the innovation and design of a device that revolutionized the way music is consumed.

💡Innovation

Innovation refers to the process of introducing new ideas, methods, or products. In the context of the video, innovation is the core concept behind the creation of the iPod. It represents the individual's drive to solve problems and improve upon existing technologies, leading to the development of a product that changed the music industry.

💡Design Process

The design process is the series of steps taken to create a new product or service. In the video, the design process is crucial to the development of the iPod, involving the selection of components, the layout of the device, and the user interface. It is a complex and iterative process that requires careful consideration of various factors, including aesthetics, functionality, and user experience.

💡Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs was the co-founder and former CEO of Apple Inc. Known for his vision and leadership, Jobs played a pivotal role in the development of many iconic Apple products, including the iPod. In the video, Jobs is portrayed as a key decision-maker who saw the potential in the iPod concept and committed significant resources to its development.

💡Sony

Sony is a multinational conglomerate corporation known for its leadership in the electronics and entertainment industries. In the video, Sony is mentioned as the dominant player in the audio market at the time of the iPod's conception. The individual expresses concern about competing with Sony, highlighting the challenge of entering a market dominated by an established and well-respected brand.

💡Dark Side of the Moon

Dark Side of the Moon is a classic rock album by the English rock band Pink Floyd, often considered one of the greatest albums of all time. In the video, the individual cites this album as an example of the kind of music they loved and were inspired by, which influenced their passion for music and, ultimately, the creation of the iPod.

💡MP3

MP3 is a common audio format for digital music files that uses lossy compression to reduce file size while maintaining a reasonable sound quality. In the video, the emergence of MP3 technology is a key factor that enabled the iPod's creation, as it allowed for music to be compressed and stored more efficiently.

💡Engineering

Engineering refers to the application of scientific and mathematical principles to design, build, and maintain structures, machines, devices, systems, and processes. In the context of the video, engineering is the foundation of the iPod's creation, involving the technical aspects of designing and building the device, including selecting the right components and ensuring they work together seamlessly.

💡 iTunes

iTunes is a media player, media library, and mobile device management application developed by Apple Inc. It is deeply integrated with the iPod and was instrumental in the iPod's success, providing a user-friendly platform for managing and syncing music. In the video, iTunes is highlighted as an essential component of the iPod experience, emphasizing the synergy between the two products.

💡Supply Chain

The supply chain refers to the network of organizations, people, activities, information, and resources involved in the production and distribution of a product. In the video, the supply chain is an important consideration in the iPod's development, ensuring that all components are sourced, manufactured, and assembled efficiently to produce the final product.

💡Flash Memory

Flash memory is a type of non-volatile storage technology that can be electronically erased and reprogrammed. It was a key component in early portable digital devices like the iPod, allowing for data storage without the need for a constant power supply. In the video, flash memory is discussed as an alternative to the hard drive used in the iPod, highlighting the technological considerations in the device's design.

Highlights

The individual's love for music since childhood, particularly American and British rock and roll.

The innovative idea of hacking a clock radio to listen to music privately with headphones.

The recognition of 'Stairway to Heaven' as a classic rock song and its impact on the interviewee.

The description of the 'Dark Side of the Moon' as a transformative rock opera that left a lasting impression.

The early adoption of mobile computing products like the Philips Nino and the idea of putting music on them.

The advent of MP3 format and its significant compression capabilities, changing the way music is stored and consumed.

The process of creating a device like the iPod, including the selection of components and the design challenges.

The importance of the physical feel of a device, such as making a weighted styrofoam model to simulate the iPod's form factor.

The strategic decision-making involved in the design process, including the selection of battery types and processing power.

The role of iTunes in the iPod's success and the symbiotic relationship between the two products.

The challenges of convincing Apple to take a risk on the iPod, given the company's financial situation at the time.

The commitment from Apple's leadership to allocate marketing resources to the iPod, showcasing their belief in the product's potential.

The process of tearing apart competitive products to learn from their design and functionality.

The importance of creating a user interface that complements the hardware and enhances the overall user experience.

The iterative design process, involving going back and forth between detailed design work and physical prototyping.

The personal and professional journey that led to the creation of the iPod, from a childhood passion for music to a career in technology and innovation.

Transcripts

what were the ideas that gave birth to

the ipod

you know i i was in love with music

since i was a kid

just loved music from i think second

grade when i got my first albums and

stuff like that what kind of music are

we talking about so this was um

this was led zeppelin

this was the stones hendrix uh aerosmith

uh

cheap trick

styx ted nugent you know just the real

you know the real american and so and

british rock and roll right there's a

bunch of people listening right now who

10 who's who who's that zeppelin what is

that

[Laughter]

um it drove my parents crazy yeah yeah

you just blasted loud loud just right

and this was second third grade fourth

guy i just i fell in love and then

uh we um

we moved back to detroit and i love

listening to the radio station because

there was all kinds of crazy music

because you'd have a

amalgam of rock and then funk and r b

and i loved to listen at night so i had

a clock radio

but if i had the clock radio on everyone

parents go go to sleep stop that turn

that stuff off so i hacked the clock

radio and put a headphone jack in it

nice

right so i said oh they're wow

okay

and then and then i could listen to it

all night and no one could hear me right

and i could just sit there and you know

just huddling around the radio groove

out just listening to zeppelin

there were to heaven

what would you say is the greatest rock

classic rock song of all time

greatest classic rock song of all time

well it pops into mine well no you know

what i mean this has to do with it

dude this is nice

dude this is

a serious journalistic interview

you're not going to back down from these

kinds of questions oh my god no i don't

know challenge yeah it's hard it's hard

to pick but i i to me stairway to heaven

is a safe

fault it's like it's so often considered

to be one of the greatest songs of all

time that you almost don't want to pick

it right exactly but you've returned to

it time and time again and it's like

yeah this is

this is something pretty special

this is a rock opera

of sorts well the rock opera that really

blew me away and still continues to blow

me away is all of dark side of the moon

like that

i love that yeah i love zeppelin i i

can't say which one's better but dark

side of the moon for me was it was a you

know audio experience right the whole

thing from soup to nuts plus all the

synthesizers all of those things

okay so back back to the ipod so that's

you from the early age you loved music

loved it absolutely loved it and you

know always was just around it and

always i just it was always playing you

know um i

played it so loud that i actually hurt

the earring in my right ear

and i still suffer from that today

um and then no regrets no regrets

whatsoever going to concerts in downtown

detroit and all that crazy stuff so

moving forward um

so i in college i was a dj

so i would dj and hang out and play all

the tunes i love and whatever for the

for the crowd and then i continued to do

that in silicon valley

when when i moved right after school

and so i was be lugging all of these cds

around with me a thousand cds to right

and

and at the same time

and so those were heavy and at the same

time i was doing the philips nino

and velo those are window ce-based

mobile computing products

the nino was the first

device to actually put audible books on

tape so we i worked with audible we met

in a conference and they were like we

don't want to do hardware we just want

to do content i was like well we have

this device let's get it together and we

got audible on that and this was in

96 or seven

first audible books and it you know as i

was oh my god that's audio

well what if we put music on it

right and so i i could the and the

memory was very small at the time right

there was almost there was almost no

flash it was all dram when you did

audible you stored it in dram

right which was okay probably because

uh how much

books do you need is the idea by the way

brilliant i mean just putting books

i know it's probably not the sexiest of

things but putting books

on

on a mobile device is a brilliant step

i i don't know you sometimes can't

measure

how much human progress occurred because

of an invention like there's the sexy

big products but you never know like

maybe like wikipedia is one of those

things that doesn't get enough

i think credit for the transformational

effects it has it's not seen as the

sexiest of products but maybe it is when

you look at human history

wikipedia

arguably is one of the big things that

that basically unlocked

human knowledge human knowledge okay and

human editing and human you know just

the human human nature of building

something together yeah so it's it's

fascinating sometimes you can't measure

those things maybe until many many

decades later anyway sorry so that was

that was the nino that was so that's

that was there and then there was

audible they put books why not put music

music and i'm carrying around the music

for the dj gigs and you're like wait a

second uh two and two together right

like get let's get rid of this and so

and then mp3 show up

the the actual like encoder performance

the format mp3 showed up around 97.98

so mp3 is compressed so you can

have uh

like the storage is reduced

significantly right so you could go from

a um you know a large full full uh

losses lossless um you know digital

track into something that can be stored

in

four to eight megabytes something like

that for the audio now you know that's a

reduced quality but you could get it

down there and you're like oh

okay and now if we have enough flash or

dram we can put 10 15 what have you all

in that same memory and it starts to

replicate a cd and then ultimately if

you put it on a hard drive you could

start to put you know thousands of songs

yeah that's that's also another

brilliant invention like people don't

realize

i think i think people would be

surprised how big

in terms of storage raw audio is and the

fact you can compress it

like

uh

i don't know what the compression is but

it's like 10x it's very significant

compression and still it sounds almost

lossless much of the chagrin of neil

young who yeah who does not like that

but even even neil young

even the stuff he talks about is still

tiny files relative to the raw right so

he he wants us to increase it just a

little bit more a little bit more but

it's still that's an invention that's a

thing that unlocks your ability to carry

around the device like nino and listen

to music because without that there's no

way you can carry on a gigantic hard

drive

right exactly and so so then that so it

was mp3s the nino and my you know my my

hatred of carrying around all this heavy

stuff that then

spawned you know um fused and then

ultimately you know became

a lot of that the ideas and things of

that nature were

and and my passions were born into then

the ipod you know it was too

apple needed something and i wanted to

fix something and it all kind of you

know came together at this right right

place right time plus the right

technology came at this it was just like

the stars aligned so how did it come to

life

the details of

the stars aligning but the actual design

the actual engineering of getting a

device to be small

the uh

the storage of the you know the

interface how it looks sure um

the storage the details of the software

all that kind of stuff what what are

some interesting memories from that

design process what are some wisdoms you

you can

yeah

parts okay from that process well

you know how long do you want to go

because i have i can go deep uh so uh

let's go at least 20 hours let's go okay

yeah that's one of the lengthy

documentaries we're gonna turn it into

episodic uh yeah binge

game of thrones so let's just start with

uh you know after i was asked to be a

consultant to put this thing together

so i had already had knowledge of you

know the the space and the technology

and all that stuff but i had to very

quickly

and and a lot of the suppliers because

of what i was doing at fuse trying to

create that thing so

at

at as a contractor i was like okay what

is the first thing you need to do so

so after i showed a you know uh um

different architectures and what three

different products could be to steve

about options for storage options

battery options form factor options

there was three options and as i was was

i told uh given very good advice give to

the the two options you really do not

like but their options and give the best

option last because steve will shut you

know shoot all those down and give the

the best option last and then you could

talk about that and so that was the one

that had a 1.8 inch hard drive

and a small screen

uh like with the screen you you you know

it uh and the on the original ipod

classic ipod

and uh and then i had enough of the idea

of the three or three or four different

uh

cpus and processor suppliers and kind of

systems that were out there that i had

gone and found and put together on power

supplies you know uh disk drive

interfaces firewire interface all that

stuff so i put together all of those

those schematics or you know block

diagrams they weren't schematics yet

because it was just me

and coming up with a bill of materials

coming up with what it could look like

what would be the input output how we

could uh

make a better headphone jack um that was

also on there screen suppliers

tearing apart calculators so got all

calculators and all kinds of electronics

to get the the right size um

different sizes of small lcds

so i got all kinds of different battery

types i got different types of uh you

know in different battery sizes double

a's triple a's working through all the

different

and there was lithium ion nickel metal

hydride so i took all the battery types

i took all of the

memory types processing types lcd types

and

um

and and connectivity and all that stuff

not wireless but wired

and

laid out these things as lego blocks so

literally had all of these things is

just and so i made them so i could like

you know put them together and figure

out what the compact fac form factor

would be oh like how do we shove them

together what's the smallest possible

box you can get so the the questions

without the storage so the hard drive

batteries double a triple a you're right

screens so screen size and then for that

you're tearing apart calculators

calculators digital cameras whatever and

getting little things right so so you

can make it physical right if you can

make the intangible tangible like and so

i can say look we can make this and i

could i brought this whole bag of goods

and it was like

right and like here's this here's this

this is why double a's won't work and

because it makes it too fat and

everything so just educate everybody

through here's the parts that we can use

you should not sheet a paper it's

physical you're playing in the physical

space well i would go back and forth so

truth be told because there weren't a

good enough graphical tools on on a

on the mac i was using a pc with vizio

and some 3d tools and i was doing 3d

design at the same time i was taking all

these physical parts and going okay what

feels right because you have to go from

you know the details and then the rough

and you go back and forth and you

iterate right and so it was just a lot

of fun and then i ultimately ended up

with a styrofoam model and printouts

that came from vizio that i

glued together and put my grandfather's

fishing weights in because i also

modeled the weights

right so i i said oh this is this many

ounces this is this many ounces and

grams and then i went and got all that

and made the weighted these styrofoam

models

to then match that so when you picked it

up it felt more or less form factor

right and it also you felt

how much you know was it going to be

dense enough is it going to feel solid

and rigid in your hand

right

why does need to feel rigid because it

has to feel substantial it has to feel

like i have like a like a bar of gold in

my hand right you know maybe you know

this

when you open and close a car door you

know that thunk and you go bam and you

go that feels solid that feels real and

then you get this tinny car that's like

ding and you're like does this feel safe

does this feel like a value and so you

when you have a device like that and you

you want to make sure that there's not

too much air in it that you distributed

the density of the masses in the right

way so it feels like it's the right

thing so you have to model battery life

costs

you know

mass

sizes of different things and then you

have to also think about what the ui is

going to look like right so you have all

of these constraints your work variables

you're working with and you have to kind

of you know you can't get the perfect of

everything what's the best you know

local maximum of all of these components

that come together to provide an

experience local max it's always

trade-offs what about buttons

buttons oh well there was also the

buttons too right oh by the way a lot of

these battles fought inside your mind or

is it with other people is it uh is it

with steve is it lower like what this

was all independent this was me before

being able to present to see because i

had to feel really confident

that

if i was going to put this in front of

him that it could be made right so i had

to convince myself and go work through

all the details through the like the

very very rough mechanical design

electrical design software things

because i didn't want to present

something that was going to be fictional

right my credibility view would be like

trashed

right so you mentioned convince yourself

you're painting this beautiful picture

of of a driven

engineer designer

uh futurist

how much doubt were you plagued by

through that like this this is even

doable because it's not obvious that

this is even doable

like to do this at scale to do this kind

of thing to make it sexy

to uh

[Music]

shovel

the screen the batteries the storage to

make the interface the hardware and the

software interface work all of that i

mean i don't know i would be overwhelmed

by the doubt of that because so many

things have to work plus the supply

chain like at that point i wasn't

getting into any of those details or

anything you know there's there's the

basic stuff that you have to put

together and then you have to you know

through my learnings at general magic

and my learnings at philips and

delivering you know multiple you know

large-scale programs and manufacturing

you kind of get a rule of thumb and you

know what to focus on at the beginning

and what not to worry about over time

like when i was early in my career i

worried about everything on the

engineering details so much so that you

know i would be a nervous wreck sooner

or later you learn how to filter out and

figure out what to prioritize and so 10

years later you know i was able to much

do a much better job of filtering out

the things of like we'll get to that in

the you know in weeks to come but right

now we got to like solve you know the

the very

important things which is is could this

actually be something real and that you

could deliver you know enough battery

life right enough of an interface um at

the right cost

right in the right right uh right price

point so you already you're sitting on

on a track record of successes and

failures in your own mind where you had

sort of already a confidence a calm a

calmness

uh but still

was there a doubt that you can get this

done always

always how hard is it to achieve a sort

of a confidence

to a level where you can present it to

steve and actually believe that this is

doable

like what do you remember when yeah that

moment yeah i think it was after i

triple checked i couldn't

i couldn't bring anyone in

right i couldn't let anyone in on this

so it was just me are they going to

trample on it that kind of thing why no

no because i couldn't bring any what i

mean bring anyone in on this one it was

a highly confidential program inside of

apple there was like four people who

knew about it right

and so i couldn't bring anyone from

apple because and i was a contractor i

couldn't bring anyone else from the

outside world i'm working for apple and

i'm under this

crazy nda right in this contract so it

was just

it was so i'm i'm

i'm doing this oh and at the same time

i'm also buying every competitive

product mp3 player and tearing them all

apart yeah right tore them all apart and

looking at them and trying to learn from

those as well so it was all of this

stuff in six weeks so i didn't sleep

right yeah yeah but i i was like because

i was trying to make this from i was i

was envisioning this since the nino

right and i was like oh my god right

but there was another doubt that i had

and it wasn't just could you make the

product but could actu apple actually

have

the um

the balls to make it because apple was

not the same company

that you know it today in 2001

really it was cautious conservative

careful

it was barely break even it was a four

or five billion dollar company oh so the

guts required there is not necessarily

in the innovation it's like this is

going to cost a lot of money we're going

to potentially lose all of it because

it'll be

a flop

well there's not just that but there was

only the mac

yeah and the mac wasn't doing very well

yeah there was less it was about a one

percent only in the u.s market share for

the mac

right

the company was in debt bill gates had

to give him a loan

right michael dell at the time was

saying shut down the company and give

the money back to the shareholders

so

this is not the company that you know

that people oh my god the iphone came

out it's a very different level of

confidence and financial

situation that the company was in versus

the ipod so given that what was the

conversation when you finally presented

to steve

what was that conversation like

the conversation was

well we went we went through it the

presentation and all that stuff happened

and he he was just like and you know he

never he would flip through it real

quick throw the presentation aside and

said okay let's talk about this

right and so we went through it all

and

um

one was a big conversation about sony

and sony was the number one in all audio

categories home portable what

in the world okay

i had been already gone through 10 years

of failure and i was like wait a second

how are we going to compete with sony

and i was always worried that sony was

going to come out with whatever it was

they were going to come out with their

mp3 player and that was it game over

right

and so i was like

steve

and and this is why it took me

four weeks to finally sign on to join

apple after he greenlighted the ipod

program in that meeting

was because

i had built other things in the past at

phillips the nino and velo but they

didn't know how to sell it or market it

they didn't know how to retail it

right so i was like we could build this

and i was like steve i'm pretty sure i

can build this i've done this before

but how are we going to sell it

you have all your marketing dollars on

the mac

and he looked at me and he goes you

build this

with you know a team and our team and

apple open business to me right

and

i dedicate that we will make sure that

at least two quarters of all marketing

dollars will only go to this product and

nothing else

wow

right that was mac was the lifeblood of

all revenue of the company so steve saw

something special here

exactly

and he said i'm going to commit all the

marketing dollars if you can deliver the

experience that we're all talking about

if we can do that and that was jeff

robin as well because i ipod would have

never happened without itunes you know

people don't understand that was a

bundle you couldn't do one without the

other and vice versa so jeff and i were

you know if jeff and you can present and

bring that um

bring that experience to life

i will put all the marketing dollars

behind it when did the marriage of ipod

and itunes

sort of

uh

what was that

a birth of ideas that made up itunes

itunes existed before the ipod

okay

and so jeff robin had his company oh man

i can't remember her name but it was

bought he was making a mp3 player app

for the mac

steve saw it because there was mp3

player apps like winamp and other things

that were on the pc real player

and steve saw that going on and saw that

jeff and his small team had this this i

can't remember sound something

anyways he bought that and that became

the basis of itunes and then jeff ran

all of itunes and so what happened

specifically there was they were

starting to hook up to all these

third-party mp3 players

because there's a lot of korean

the mp man like walkman but mp man all

these

and they were trying to hook them up and

they were like these are horrible

experiences

and through that and they said

itunes was something that was going to

help grow the mac base because we were

trying to get more and people on the mac

so this program would be a great new

thing you could add to the mac

and there was also internet connectivity

at the time for the imac and so they did

that and then they're trying to do these

these hookups they weren't going well

and that's when they said we need to

build our own or steve said we need to

build our own since these are such

horrible experiences people don't want

to just burn cds from itunes we need to

get that music on the go but in an apple

fashion that's when i was called

to come in to do that the ipod thing

after the six weeks then he already

envisioned i'm sure he had envisioned

because they were trying to do this

thing

okay now that's it

itunes what you know it wasn't called

ipod yet you know what would become the

ipod that is going to be the thing that

then propels apple into this new thing

because you've been bringing all these

music lovers in that are going to need

their

their

next generation or sony walkman

version 2.0

you