How iPod was created | Tony Fadell and Lex Fridman

Lex Clips
15 Jun 202223:23

Summary

TLDRThe transcript details the passion for music and technological innovation that led to the creation of the iPod. It discusses the individual's love for rock music, the evolution from playing music at home to DJing, and the technological advancements like MP3s and mobile computing devices that laid the groundwork. The narrative further explores the design process of the iPod, including the engineering challenges, the importance of user experience, and the strategic marketing decisions by Apple to support the product.

Takeaways

  • 🎶 A passion for music from an early age was a driving force behind the creation of the iPod.
  • 🔌 The desire to摆脱 heavy physical media like CDs and tapes led to the concept of a portable digital music player.
  • 💡 The convergence of technology such as MP3 format, flash memory, and mobile computing devices paved the way for the iPod's development.
  • 🎧 Innovations like the Nino and Velo from Philips, which focused on audio books, laid the groundwork for the iPod's audio capabilities.
  • 🔄 The importance of a user-friendly interface and seamless experience was crucial in the iPod's design and its integration with iTunes.
  • 📈 The iPod's development was a risk for Apple, considering the company's financial situation and market position at the time.
  • 🚀 Steve Jobs' commitment to allocate significant marketing resources to the iPod project demonstrates the company's belief in its potential.
  • 🔧 The process of creating the iPod involved extensive research, prototyping, and consideration of various components such as storage, battery life, and form factor.
  • 🤝 Collaboration between different teams at Apple, including the iTunes team led by Jeff Robbin, was essential in bringing the iPod to market.
  • 🛠️ The design process of the iPod was iterative, involving both physical mockups and digital design tools to refine the product's form and function.
  • 🎉 The success of the iPod was not just in its technology but also in its ability to transform the way people consumed and carried their music.

Q & A

  • What was the individual's early relationship with music like?

    -The individual had a deep love for music since childhood, starting from the second grade when they got their first albums. Their taste in music was heavily influenced by American and British rock and roll, with bands like Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick, Styx, and Ted Nugent being among their favorites.

  • How did the individual's passion for music evolve over time?

    -Their passion for music continued to grow, leading them to become a DJ in college and later in Silicon Valley. They were always surrounded by music and even played it loudly, to the point of causing damage to their earring and still suffering from it today. They also enjoyed the diverse music scenes in Detroit and loved listening to the radio late at night.

  • What was the individual's involvement with the Philips Nino and Velo products?

    -The individual worked on the Philips Nino and Velo products, which were early mobile computing devices. The Nino was the first device to put audible books on tape, and they collaborated with Audible to store the books in DRAM. The idea of putting books on a mobile device was considered brilliant and transformative for human progress.

  • How did the emergence of MP3s impact the individual's thinking about music storage?

    -The advent of MP3s allowed for significant compression of audio files, making it possible to store more music in less space. This was a game-changer for the individual, as it meant that thousands of songs could be stored on a device, paving the way for the creation of a portable music player like the iPod.

  • What were some of the challenges the individual faced when designing the iPod?

    -Some challenges included creating a compact form factor, selecting the right storage and battery options, and ensuring the device felt substantial and solid in hand. The individual also had to consider the user interface and the overall user experience, while dealing with doubts about whether the product was even feasible at scale.

  • How did the individual overcome the initial doubts about creating the iPod?

    -The individual overcame doubts by using their experience from previous projects and focusing on the most important aspects of the project, such as battery life, interface, and cost. They also conducted extensive research by tearing apart competitive products and understanding the market landscape.

  • What was the significance of the iPod in relation to iTunes?

    -The iPod and iTunes were designed to complement each other; the iPod was the device for playing music, while iTunes was the platform for managing and purchasing music. This integration was crucial for the success of both products and helped propel Apple into a new era of music consumption.

  • How did Steve Jobs support the iPod project?

    -Steve Jobs showed his commitment to the iPod project by promising to allocate a significant portion of Apple's marketing budget to promote the iPod. He saw the potential in the product and was willing to invest heavily in its success.

  • What was the state of Apple when the iPod was being conceptualized?

    -At the time the iPod was being conceptualized, Apple was a much smaller company with a more cautious and conservative approach. It was not the financial powerhouse it is today, and the decision to invest heavily in the iPod was a bold move.

  • How did the individual ensure the iPod would feel substantial and rigid in hand?

    -The individual created weighted styrofoam models of the iPod to mimic its weight and feel. They also focused on distributing the mass in a way that would make the device feel solid and substantial, akin to the satisfying thunk of a car door closing.

  • What was the role of iTunes in the iPod's success?

    -iTunes played a crucial role in the iPod's success by providing a seamless platform for users to manage and purchase music. The integration of iTunes with the iPod created a unique and user-friendly experience that set it apart from competitors.

  • What was the individual's strategy for dealing with the various components and trade-offs involved in designing the iPod?

    -The individual approached the design process by considering all the components and their trade-offs, focusing on achieving the best local maximum of the overall experience. They iterated between the details and the rough design, using both physical models and 3D design tools to refine the product.

Outlines

00:00

🎶 The Birth of the iPod: A Passion for Music

The narrative begins with the creator's deep-rooted love for music since childhood, highlighting the influence of classic rock bands like Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick, Styx, and Ted Nugent. The creator's early experiences with music include hacking a clock radio to listen without disturbing others and the impact of diverse musical genres in Detroit. The conversation touches on the 'greatest classic rock song of all time,' with 'Stairway to Heaven' being a notable mention. The creator's journey with music continued into college as a DJ and later into the tech industry, where the idea of combining music with mobile computing devices like the Philips Nino was revolutionary. The discussion emphasizes the significance of audio experiences and the creator's vision for a device that could store and play music conveniently.

05:01

📚 From Audible Books to Music: The Evolution of Portable Media

This segment delves into the creator's work with the Philips Nino and the idea of putting audible books on tape, which later evolved into the concept of storing music. The advent of MP3 format and its ability to significantly reduce file size is highlighted, enabling the storage of more music on portable devices. The creator's realization of the potential for a device that could carry thousands of songs is discussed, along with the challenges and innovations in storage, battery life, and user interface design. The narrative also touches on the importance of human collaboration and the transformative effects of inventions like Wikipedia, emphasizing the role of technology in unlocking human knowledge and progress.

10:04

🛠️ Designing the iPod: A Blend of Engineering and Intuition

The process of designing the iPod is detailed, from the initial concept and selection of components to the creation of a physical prototype. The creator's approach involved considering various types of batteries, memory, processors, and display options, as well as the challenges of fitting everything into a compact form factor. The importance of the device's feel and substance is emphasized, with the creator using physical models to simulate the weight and density of the final product. The iterative process of design, including the use of 3D tools and the examination of competitor products, is discussed, highlighting the creator's meticulous attention to detail and the need to balance multiple constraints and variables.

15:05

💡 Overcoming Doubt and the Risks of Innovation

The creator shares his internal struggles with doubt and the risks associated with developing the iPod. The challenges of convincing oneself and others of the feasibility of the project are discussed, along with the need to maintain credibility and confidence. The creator's previous experiences and learnings from General Magic and Philips are mentioned as valuable in managing the development process. The conversation also touches on the state of Apple at the time, including its financial situation and market position, and the significant risks involved in committing resources to the iPod project. The creator's concerns about competing with industry giants like Sony and the importance of marketing and retail strategy are also highlighted.

20:07

🎵 The iPod and iTunes: A Perfect Harmony

The relationship between the iPod and iTunes is explored, with the origins of iTunes as a MP3 player app for the Mac and its evolution into a platform for music management and consumption. The creator's involvement in the project post-six weeks is discussed, along with the vision of Steve Jobs and Jeff Robbin for integrating the iPod with iTunes. The strategic decision to allocate marketing resources to the iPod and iTunes is highlighted, emphasizing the belief in the product's potential to revolutionize the music industry. The discussion also covers the challenges of working with Apple's limited resources at the time and the critical role of the iPod in attracting new users to the Mac platform, ultimately setting the stage for Apple's future success.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡iPod

The iPod is a portable media player designed and marketed by Apple Inc. It was a revolutionary product that combined a hard drive-based portable music player with a user interface that was intuitive and easy to use. In the context of the video, the iPod's creation is attributed to the love for music and the desire to have a portable device that could store and play a large number of songs. The iPod's introduction changed the way people listened to music and marked a significant shift in the music industry.

💡Music Passion

A strong affection or enthusiasm for music is evident throughout the video. The individual's love for music began in their childhood and continued into adulthood, influencing their career choices and eventually leading to their involvement in the creation of the iPod. This passion is what drove the innovation and design of a device that revolutionized the way music is consumed.

💡Innovation

Innovation refers to the process of introducing new ideas, methods, or products. In the context of the video, innovation is the core concept behind the creation of the iPod. It represents the individual's drive to solve problems and improve upon existing technologies, leading to the development of a product that changed the music industry.

💡Design Process

The design process is the series of steps taken to create a new product or service. In the video, the design process is crucial to the development of the iPod, involving the selection of components, the layout of the device, and the user interface. It is a complex and iterative process that requires careful consideration of various factors, including aesthetics, functionality, and user experience.

💡Steve Jobs

Steve Jobs was the co-founder and former CEO of Apple Inc. Known for his vision and leadership, Jobs played a pivotal role in the development of many iconic Apple products, including the iPod. In the video, Jobs is portrayed as a key decision-maker who saw the potential in the iPod concept and committed significant resources to its development.

💡Sony

Sony is a multinational conglomerate corporation known for its leadership in the electronics and entertainment industries. In the video, Sony is mentioned as the dominant player in the audio market at the time of the iPod's conception. The individual expresses concern about competing with Sony, highlighting the challenge of entering a market dominated by an established and well-respected brand.

💡Dark Side of the Moon

Dark Side of the Moon is a classic rock album by the English rock band Pink Floyd, often considered one of the greatest albums of all time. In the video, the individual cites this album as an example of the kind of music they loved and were inspired by, which influenced their passion for music and, ultimately, the creation of the iPod.

💡MP3

MP3 is a common audio format for digital music files that uses lossy compression to reduce file size while maintaining a reasonable sound quality. In the video, the emergence of MP3 technology is a key factor that enabled the iPod's creation, as it allowed for music to be compressed and stored more efficiently.

💡Engineering

Engineering refers to the application of scientific and mathematical principles to design, build, and maintain structures, machines, devices, systems, and processes. In the context of the video, engineering is the foundation of the iPod's creation, involving the technical aspects of designing and building the device, including selecting the right components and ensuring they work together seamlessly.

💡 iTunes

iTunes is a media player, media library, and mobile device management application developed by Apple Inc. It is deeply integrated with the iPod and was instrumental in the iPod's success, providing a user-friendly platform for managing and syncing music. In the video, iTunes is highlighted as an essential component of the iPod experience, emphasizing the synergy between the two products.

💡Supply Chain

The supply chain refers to the network of organizations, people, activities, information, and resources involved in the production and distribution of a product. In the video, the supply chain is an important consideration in the iPod's development, ensuring that all components are sourced, manufactured, and assembled efficiently to produce the final product.

💡Flash Memory

Flash memory is a type of non-volatile storage technology that can be electronically erased and reprogrammed. It was a key component in early portable digital devices like the iPod, allowing for data storage without the need for a constant power supply. In the video, flash memory is discussed as an alternative to the hard drive used in the iPod, highlighting the technological considerations in the device's design.

Highlights

The individual's love for music since childhood, particularly American and British rock and roll.

The innovative idea of hacking a clock radio to listen to music privately with headphones.

The recognition of 'Stairway to Heaven' as a classic rock song and its impact on the interviewee.

The description of the 'Dark Side of the Moon' as a transformative rock opera that left a lasting impression.

The early adoption of mobile computing products like the Philips Nino and the idea of putting music on them.

The advent of MP3 format and its significant compression capabilities, changing the way music is stored and consumed.

The process of creating a device like the iPod, including the selection of components and the design challenges.

The importance of the physical feel of a device, such as making a weighted styrofoam model to simulate the iPod's form factor.

The strategic decision-making involved in the design process, including the selection of battery types and processing power.

The role of iTunes in the iPod's success and the symbiotic relationship between the two products.

The challenges of convincing Apple to take a risk on the iPod, given the company's financial situation at the time.

The commitment from Apple's leadership to allocate marketing resources to the iPod, showcasing their belief in the product's potential.

The process of tearing apart competitive products to learn from their design and functionality.

The importance of creating a user interface that complements the hardware and enhances the overall user experience.

The iterative design process, involving going back and forth between detailed design work and physical prototyping.

The personal and professional journey that led to the creation of the iPod, from a childhood passion for music to a career in technology and innovation.

Transcripts

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what were the ideas that gave birth to

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the ipod

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you know i i was in love with music

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since i was a kid

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just loved music from i think second

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grade when i got my first albums and

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stuff like that what kind of music are

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we talking about so this was um

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this was led zeppelin

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this was the stones hendrix uh aerosmith

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uh

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cheap trick

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styx ted nugent you know just the real

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you know the real american and so and

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british rock and roll right there's a

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bunch of people listening right now who

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10 who's who who's that zeppelin what is

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that

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[Laughter]

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um it drove my parents crazy yeah yeah

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you just blasted loud loud just right

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and this was second third grade fourth

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guy i just i fell in love and then

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uh we um

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we moved back to detroit and i love

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listening to the radio station because

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there was all kinds of crazy music

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because you'd have a

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amalgam of rock and then funk and r b

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and i loved to listen at night so i had

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a clock radio

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but if i had the clock radio on everyone

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parents go go to sleep stop that turn

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that stuff off so i hacked the clock

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radio and put a headphone jack in it

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nice

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right so i said oh they're wow

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okay

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and then and then i could listen to it

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all night and no one could hear me right

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and i could just sit there and you know

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just huddling around the radio groove

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out just listening to zeppelin

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there were to heaven

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what would you say is the greatest rock

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classic rock song of all time

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greatest classic rock song of all time

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well it pops into mine well no you know

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what i mean this has to do with it

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dude this is nice

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dude this is

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a serious journalistic interview

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you're not going to back down from these

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kinds of questions oh my god no i don't

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know challenge yeah it's hard it's hard

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to pick but i i to me stairway to heaven

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is a safe

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fault it's like it's so often considered

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to be one of the greatest songs of all

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time that you almost don't want to pick

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it right exactly but you've returned to

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it time and time again and it's like

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yeah this is

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this is something pretty special

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this is a rock opera

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of sorts well the rock opera that really

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blew me away and still continues to blow

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me away is all of dark side of the moon

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like that

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i love that yeah i love zeppelin i i

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can't say which one's better but dark

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side of the moon for me was it was a you

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know audio experience right the whole

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thing from soup to nuts plus all the

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synthesizers all of those things

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okay so back back to the ipod so that's

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you from the early age you loved music

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loved it absolutely loved it and you

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know always was just around it and

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always i just it was always playing you

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know um i

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played it so loud that i actually hurt

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the earring in my right ear

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and i still suffer from that today

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um and then no regrets no regrets

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whatsoever going to concerts in downtown

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detroit and all that crazy stuff so

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moving forward um

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so i in college i was a dj

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so i would dj and hang out and play all

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the tunes i love and whatever for the

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for the crowd and then i continued to do

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that in silicon valley

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when when i moved right after school

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and so i was be lugging all of these cds

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around with me a thousand cds to right

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and

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and at the same time

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and so those were heavy and at the same

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time i was doing the philips nino

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and velo those are window ce-based

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mobile computing products

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the nino was the first

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device to actually put audible books on

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tape so we i worked with audible we met

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in a conference and they were like we

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don't want to do hardware we just want

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to do content i was like well we have

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this device let's get it together and we

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got audible on that and this was in

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96 or seven

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first audible books and it you know as i

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was oh my god that's audio

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well what if we put music on it

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right and so i i could the and the

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memory was very small at the time right

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there was almost there was almost no

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flash it was all dram when you did

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audible you stored it in dram

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right which was okay probably because

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uh how much

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books do you need is the idea by the way

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brilliant i mean just putting books

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i know it's probably not the sexiest of

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things but putting books

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on

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on a mobile device is a brilliant step

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i i don't know you sometimes can't

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measure

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how much human progress occurred because

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of an invention like there's the sexy

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big products but you never know like

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maybe like wikipedia is one of those

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things that doesn't get enough

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i think credit for the transformational

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effects it has it's not seen as the

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sexiest of products but maybe it is when

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you look at human history

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wikipedia

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arguably is one of the big things that

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that basically unlocked

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human knowledge human knowledge okay and

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human editing and human you know just

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the human human nature of building

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something together yeah so it's it's

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fascinating sometimes you can't measure

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those things maybe until many many

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decades later anyway sorry so that was

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that was the nino that was so that's

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that was there and then there was

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audible they put books why not put music

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music and i'm carrying around the music

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for the dj gigs and you're like wait a

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second uh two and two together right

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like get let's get rid of this and so

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and then mp3 show up

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the the actual like encoder performance

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the format mp3 showed up around 97.98

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so mp3 is compressed so you can

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have uh

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like the storage is reduced

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significantly right so you could go from

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a um you know a large full full uh

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losses lossless um you know digital

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track into something that can be stored

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in

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four to eight megabytes something like

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that for the audio now you know that's a

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reduced quality but you could get it

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down there and you're like oh

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okay and now if we have enough flash or

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dram we can put 10 15 what have you all

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in that same memory and it starts to

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replicate a cd and then ultimately if

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you put it on a hard drive you could

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start to put you know thousands of songs

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yeah that's that's also another

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brilliant invention like people don't

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realize

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i think i think people would be

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surprised how big

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in terms of storage raw audio is and the

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fact you can compress it

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like

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uh

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i don't know what the compression is but

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it's like 10x it's very significant

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compression and still it sounds almost

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lossless much of the chagrin of neil

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young who yeah who does not like that

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but even even neil young

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even the stuff he talks about is still

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tiny files relative to the raw right so

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he he wants us to increase it just a

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little bit more a little bit more but

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it's still that's an invention that's a

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thing that unlocks your ability to carry

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around the device like nino and listen

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to music because without that there's no

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way you can carry on a gigantic hard

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drive

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right exactly and so so then that so it

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was mp3s the nino and my you know my my

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hatred of carrying around all this heavy

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stuff that then

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spawned you know um fused and then

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ultimately you know became

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a lot of that the ideas and things of

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that nature were

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and and my passions were born into then

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the ipod you know it was too

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apple needed something and i wanted to

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fix something and it all kind of you

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know came together at this right right

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place right time plus the right

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technology came at this it was just like

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the stars aligned so how did it come to

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life

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the details of

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the stars aligning but the actual design

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the actual engineering of getting a

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device to be small

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the uh

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the storage of the you know the

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interface how it looks sure um

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the storage the details of the software

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all that kind of stuff what what are

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some interesting memories from that

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design process what are some wisdoms you

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you can

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yeah

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parts okay from that process well

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you know how long do you want to go

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because i have i can go deep uh so uh

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let's go at least 20 hours let's go okay

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yeah that's one of the lengthy

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documentaries we're gonna turn it into

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episodic uh yeah binge

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game of thrones so let's just start with

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uh you know after i was asked to be a

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consultant to put this thing together

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so i had already had knowledge of you

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know the the space and the technology

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and all that stuff but i had to very

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quickly

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and and a lot of the suppliers because

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of what i was doing at fuse trying to

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create that thing so

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at

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at as a contractor i was like okay what

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is the first thing you need to do so

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so after i showed a you know uh um

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different architectures and what three

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different products could be to steve

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about options for storage options

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battery options form factor options

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there was three options and as i was was

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i told uh given very good advice give to

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the the two options you really do not

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like but their options and give the best

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option last because steve will shut you

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know shoot all those down and give the

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the best option last and then you could

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talk about that and so that was the one

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that had a 1.8 inch hard drive

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and a small screen

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uh like with the screen you you you know

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it uh and the on the original ipod

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classic ipod

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and uh and then i had enough of the idea

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of the three or three or four different

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uh

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cpus and processor suppliers and kind of

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systems that were out there that i had

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gone and found and put together on power

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supplies you know uh disk drive

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interfaces firewire interface all that

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stuff so i put together all of those

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those schematics or you know block

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diagrams they weren't schematics yet

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because it was just me

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and coming up with a bill of materials

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coming up with what it could look like

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what would be the input output how we

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could uh

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make a better headphone jack um that was

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also on there screen suppliers

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tearing apart calculators so got all

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calculators and all kinds of electronics

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to get the the right size um

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different sizes of small lcds

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so i got all kinds of different battery

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types i got different types of uh you

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know in different battery sizes double

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a's triple a's working through all the

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different

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and there was lithium ion nickel metal

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hydride so i took all the battery types

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i took all of the

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memory types processing types lcd types

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and

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um

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and and connectivity and all that stuff

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not wireless but wired

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and

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laid out these things as lego blocks so

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literally had all of these things is

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just and so i made them so i could like

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you know put them together and figure

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out what the compact fac form factor

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would be oh like how do we shove them

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together what's the smallest possible

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box you can get so the the questions

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without the storage so the hard drive

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batteries double a triple a you're right

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screens so screen size and then for that

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you're tearing apart calculators

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calculators digital cameras whatever and

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getting little things right so so you

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can make it physical right if you can

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make the intangible tangible like and so

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i can say look we can make this and i

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could i brought this whole bag of goods

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and it was like

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right and like here's this here's this

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this is why double a's won't work and

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because it makes it too fat and

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everything so just educate everybody

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through here's the parts that we can use

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you should not sheet a paper it's

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physical you're playing in the physical

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space well i would go back and forth so

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truth be told because there weren't a

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good enough graphical tools on on a

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on the mac i was using a pc with vizio

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and some 3d tools and i was doing 3d

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design at the same time i was taking all

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these physical parts and going okay what

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feels right because you have to go from

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you know the details and then the rough

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and you go back and forth and you

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iterate right and so it was just a lot

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of fun and then i ultimately ended up

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with a styrofoam model and printouts

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that came from vizio that i

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glued together and put my grandfather's

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fishing weights in because i also

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modeled the weights

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right so i i said oh this is this many

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ounces this is this many ounces and

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grams and then i went and got all that

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and made the weighted these styrofoam

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models

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to then match that so when you picked it

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up it felt more or less form factor

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right and it also you felt

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how much you know was it going to be

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dense enough is it going to feel solid

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and rigid in your hand

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right

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why does need to feel rigid because it

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has to feel substantial it has to feel

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like i have like a like a bar of gold in

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my hand right you know maybe you know

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this

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when you open and close a car door you

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know that thunk and you go bam and you

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go that feels solid that feels real and

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then you get this tinny car that's like

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ding and you're like does this feel safe

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does this feel like a value and so you

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when you have a device like that and you

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you want to make sure that there's not

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too much air in it that you distributed

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the density of the masses in the right

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way so it feels like it's the right

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thing so you have to model battery life

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costs

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you know

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mass

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sizes of different things and then you

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have to also think about what the ui is

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going to look like right so you have all

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of these constraints your work variables

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you're working with and you have to kind

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of you know you can't get the perfect of

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everything what's the best you know

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local maximum of all of these components

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that come together to provide an

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experience local max it's always

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trade-offs what about buttons

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buttons oh well there was also the

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buttons too right oh by the way a lot of

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these battles fought inside your mind or

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is it with other people is it uh is it

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with steve is it lower like what this

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was all independent this was me before

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being able to present to see because i

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had to feel really confident

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that

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if i was going to put this in front of

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him that it could be made right so i had

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to convince myself and go work through

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all the details through the like the

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very very rough mechanical design

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electrical design software things

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because i didn't want to present

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something that was going to be fictional

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right my credibility view would be like

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trashed

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right so you mentioned convince yourself

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you're painting this beautiful picture

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of of a driven

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engineer designer

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uh futurist

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how much doubt were you plagued by

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through that like this this is even

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doable because it's not obvious that

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this is even doable

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like to do this at scale to do this kind

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of thing to make it sexy

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to uh

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[Music]

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shovel

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the screen the batteries the storage to

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make the interface the hardware and the

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software interface work all of that i

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mean i don't know i would be overwhelmed

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by the doubt of that because so many

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things have to work plus the supply

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chain like at that point i wasn't

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getting into any of those details or

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anything you know there's there's the

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basic stuff that you have to put

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together and then you have to you know

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through my learnings at general magic

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and my learnings at philips and

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delivering you know multiple you know

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large-scale programs and manufacturing

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you kind of get a rule of thumb and you

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know what to focus on at the beginning

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and what not to worry about over time

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like when i was early in my career i

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worried about everything on the

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engineering details so much so that you

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know i would be a nervous wreck sooner

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or later you learn how to filter out and

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figure out what to prioritize and so 10

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years later you know i was able to much

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do a much better job of filtering out

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the things of like we'll get to that in

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the you know in weeks to come but right

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now we got to like solve you know the

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the very

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important things which is is could this

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actually be something real and that you

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could deliver you know enough battery

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life right enough of an interface um at

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the right cost

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right in the right right uh right price

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point so you already you're sitting on

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on a track record of successes and

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failures in your own mind where you had

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sort of already a confidence a calm a

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calmness

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uh but still

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was there a doubt that you can get this

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done always

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always how hard is it to achieve a sort

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of a confidence

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to a level where you can present it to

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steve and actually believe that this is

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doable

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like what do you remember when yeah that

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moment yeah i think it was after i

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triple checked i couldn't

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i couldn't bring anyone in

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right i couldn't let anyone in on this

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so it was just me are they going to

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trample on it that kind of thing why no

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no because i couldn't bring any what i

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mean bring anyone in on this one it was

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a highly confidential program inside of

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apple there was like four people who

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knew about it right

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and so i couldn't bring anyone from

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apple because and i was a contractor i

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couldn't bring anyone else from the

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outside world i'm working for apple and

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i'm under this

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crazy nda right in this contract so it

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was just

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it was so i'm i'm

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i'm doing this oh and at the same time

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i'm also buying every competitive

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product mp3 player and tearing them all

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apart yeah right tore them all apart and

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looking at them and trying to learn from

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those as well so it was all of this

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stuff in six weeks so i didn't sleep

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right yeah yeah but i i was like because

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i was trying to make this from i was i

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was envisioning this since the nino

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right and i was like oh my god right

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but there was another doubt that i had

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and it wasn't just could you make the

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product but could actu apple actually

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have

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the um

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the balls to make it because apple was

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not the same company

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that you know it today in 2001

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really it was cautious conservative

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careful

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it was barely break even it was a four

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or five billion dollar company oh so the

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guts required there is not necessarily

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in the innovation it's like this is

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going to cost a lot of money we're going

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to potentially lose all of it because

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it'll be

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a flop

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well there's not just that but there was

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only the mac

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yeah and the mac wasn't doing very well

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yeah there was less it was about a one

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percent only in the u.s market share for

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the mac

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right

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the company was in debt bill gates had

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to give him a loan

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right michael dell at the time was

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saying shut down the company and give

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the money back to the shareholders

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so

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this is not the company that you know

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that people oh my god the iphone came

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out it's a very different level of

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confidence and financial

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situation that the company was in versus

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the ipod so given that what was the

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conversation when you finally presented

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to steve

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what was that conversation like

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the conversation was

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well we went we went through it the

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presentation and all that stuff happened

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and he he was just like and you know he

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never he would flip through it real

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quick throw the presentation aside and

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said okay let's talk about this

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right and so we went through it all

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and

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um

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one was a big conversation about sony

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and sony was the number one in all audio

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categories home portable what

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in the world okay

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i had been already gone through 10 years

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of failure and i was like wait a second

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how are we going to compete with sony

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and i was always worried that sony was

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going to come out with whatever it was

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they were going to come out with their

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mp3 player and that was it game over

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right

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and so i was like

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steve

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and and this is why it took me

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four weeks to finally sign on to join

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apple after he greenlighted the ipod

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program in that meeting

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was because

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i had built other things in the past at

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phillips the nino and velo but they

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didn't know how to sell it or market it

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they didn't know how to retail it

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right so i was like we could build this

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and i was like steve i'm pretty sure i

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can build this i've done this before

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but how are we going to sell it

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you have all your marketing dollars on

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the mac

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and he looked at me and he goes you

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build this

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with you know a team and our team and

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apple open business to me right

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and

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i dedicate that we will make sure that

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at least two quarters of all marketing

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dollars will only go to this product and

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nothing else

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wow

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right that was mac was the lifeblood of

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all revenue of the company so steve saw

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something special here

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exactly

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and he said i'm going to commit all the

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marketing dollars if you can deliver the

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experience that we're all talking about

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if we can do that and that was jeff

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robin as well because i ipod would have

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never happened without itunes you know

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people don't understand that was a

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bundle you couldn't do one without the

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other and vice versa so jeff and i were

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you know if jeff and you can present and

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bring that um

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bring that experience to life

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i will put all the marketing dollars

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behind it when did the marriage of ipod

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and itunes

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sort of

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uh

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what was that

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a birth of ideas that made up itunes

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itunes existed before the ipod

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okay

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and so jeff robin had his company oh man

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i can't remember her name but it was

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bought he was making a mp3 player app

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for the mac

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steve saw it because there was mp3

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player apps like winamp and other things

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that were on the pc real player

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and steve saw that going on and saw that

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jeff and his small team had this this i

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can't remember sound something

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anyways he bought that and that became

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the basis of itunes and then jeff ran

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all of itunes and so what happened

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specifically there was they were

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starting to hook up to all these

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third-party mp3 players

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because there's a lot of korean

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the mp man like walkman but mp man all

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these

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and they were trying to hook them up and

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they were like these are horrible

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experiences

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and through that and they said

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itunes was something that was going to

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help grow the mac base because we were

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trying to get more and people on the mac

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so this program would be a great new

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thing you could add to the mac

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and there was also internet connectivity

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at the time for the imac and so they did

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that and then they're trying to do these

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these hookups they weren't going well

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and that's when they said we need to

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build our own or steve said we need to

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build our own since these are such

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horrible experiences people don't want

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to just burn cds from itunes we need to

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get that music on the go but in an apple

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fashion that's when i was called

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to come in to do that the ipod thing

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after the six weeks then he already

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envisioned i'm sure he had envisioned

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because they were trying to do this

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thing

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okay now that's it

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itunes what you know it wasn't called

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ipod yet you know what would become the

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ipod that is going to be the thing that

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then propels apple into this new thing

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because you've been bringing all these

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music lovers in that are going to need

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their

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their

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next generation or sony walkman

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version 2.0

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you

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