How iPod was created | Tony Fadell and Lex Fridman
Summary
TLDRThe transcript details the passion for music and technological innovation that led to the creation of the iPod. It discusses the individual's love for rock music, the evolution from playing music at home to DJing, and the technological advancements like MP3s and mobile computing devices that laid the groundwork. The narrative further explores the design process of the iPod, including the engineering challenges, the importance of user experience, and the strategic marketing decisions by Apple to support the product.
Takeaways
- πΆ A passion for music from an early age was a driving force behind the creation of the iPod.
- π The desire toζθ± heavy physical media like CDs and tapes led to the concept of a portable digital music player.
- π‘ The convergence of technology such as MP3 format, flash memory, and mobile computing devices paved the way for the iPod's development.
- π§ Innovations like the Nino and Velo from Philips, which focused on audio books, laid the groundwork for the iPod's audio capabilities.
- π The importance of a user-friendly interface and seamless experience was crucial in the iPod's design and its integration with iTunes.
- π The iPod's development was a risk for Apple, considering the company's financial situation and market position at the time.
- π Steve Jobs' commitment to allocate significant marketing resources to the iPod project demonstrates the company's belief in its potential.
- π§ The process of creating the iPod involved extensive research, prototyping, and consideration of various components such as storage, battery life, and form factor.
- π€ Collaboration between different teams at Apple, including the iTunes team led by Jeff Robbin, was essential in bringing the iPod to market.
- π οΈ The design process of the iPod was iterative, involving both physical mockups and digital design tools to refine the product's form and function.
- π The success of the iPod was not just in its technology but also in its ability to transform the way people consumed and carried their music.
Q & A
What was the individual's early relationship with music like?
-The individual had a deep love for music since childhood, starting from the second grade when they got their first albums. Their taste in music was heavily influenced by American and British rock and roll, with bands like Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick, Styx, and Ted Nugent being among their favorites.
How did the individual's passion for music evolve over time?
-Their passion for music continued to grow, leading them to become a DJ in college and later in Silicon Valley. They were always surrounded by music and even played it loudly, to the point of causing damage to their earring and still suffering from it today. They also enjoyed the diverse music scenes in Detroit and loved listening to the radio late at night.
What was the individual's involvement with the Philips Nino and Velo products?
-The individual worked on the Philips Nino and Velo products, which were early mobile computing devices. The Nino was the first device to put audible books on tape, and they collaborated with Audible to store the books in DRAM. The idea of putting books on a mobile device was considered brilliant and transformative for human progress.
How did the emergence of MP3s impact the individual's thinking about music storage?
-The advent of MP3s allowed for significant compression of audio files, making it possible to store more music in less space. This was a game-changer for the individual, as it meant that thousands of songs could be stored on a device, paving the way for the creation of a portable music player like the iPod.
What were some of the challenges the individual faced when designing the iPod?
-Some challenges included creating a compact form factor, selecting the right storage and battery options, and ensuring the device felt substantial and solid in hand. The individual also had to consider the user interface and the overall user experience, while dealing with doubts about whether the product was even feasible at scale.
How did the individual overcome the initial doubts about creating the iPod?
-The individual overcame doubts by using their experience from previous projects and focusing on the most important aspects of the project, such as battery life, interface, and cost. They also conducted extensive research by tearing apart competitive products and understanding the market landscape.
What was the significance of the iPod in relation to iTunes?
-The iPod and iTunes were designed to complement each other; the iPod was the device for playing music, while iTunes was the platform for managing and purchasing music. This integration was crucial for the success of both products and helped propel Apple into a new era of music consumption.
How did Steve Jobs support the iPod project?
-Steve Jobs showed his commitment to the iPod project by promising to allocate a significant portion of Apple's marketing budget to promote the iPod. He saw the potential in the product and was willing to invest heavily in its success.
What was the state of Apple when the iPod was being conceptualized?
-At the time the iPod was being conceptualized, Apple was a much smaller company with a more cautious and conservative approach. It was not the financial powerhouse it is today, and the decision to invest heavily in the iPod was a bold move.
How did the individual ensure the iPod would feel substantial and rigid in hand?
-The individual created weighted styrofoam models of the iPod to mimic its weight and feel. They also focused on distributing the mass in a way that would make the device feel solid and substantial, akin to the satisfying thunk of a car door closing.
What was the role of iTunes in the iPod's success?
-iTunes played a crucial role in the iPod's success by providing a seamless platform for users to manage and purchase music. The integration of iTunes with the iPod created a unique and user-friendly experience that set it apart from competitors.
What was the individual's strategy for dealing with the various components and trade-offs involved in designing the iPod?
-The individual approached the design process by considering all the components and their trade-offs, focusing on achieving the best local maximum of the overall experience. They iterated between the details and the rough design, using both physical models and 3D design tools to refine the product.
Outlines
πΆ The Birth of the iPod: A Passion for Music
The narrative begins with the creator's deep-rooted love for music since childhood, highlighting the influence of classic rock bands like Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, Jimi Hendrix, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick, Styx, and Ted Nugent. The creator's early experiences with music include hacking a clock radio to listen without disturbing others and the impact of diverse musical genres in Detroit. The conversation touches on the 'greatest classic rock song of all time,' with 'Stairway to Heaven' being a notable mention. The creator's journey with music continued into college as a DJ and later into the tech industry, where the idea of combining music with mobile computing devices like the Philips Nino was revolutionary. The discussion emphasizes the significance of audio experiences and the creator's vision for a device that could store and play music conveniently.
π From Audible Books to Music: The Evolution of Portable Media
This segment delves into the creator's work with the Philips Nino and the idea of putting audible books on tape, which later evolved into the concept of storing music. The advent of MP3 format and its ability to significantly reduce file size is highlighted, enabling the storage of more music on portable devices. The creator's realization of the potential for a device that could carry thousands of songs is discussed, along with the challenges and innovations in storage, battery life, and user interface design. The narrative also touches on the importance of human collaboration and the transformative effects of inventions like Wikipedia, emphasizing the role of technology in unlocking human knowledge and progress.
π οΈ Designing the iPod: A Blend of Engineering and Intuition
The process of designing the iPod is detailed, from the initial concept and selection of components to the creation of a physical prototype. The creator's approach involved considering various types of batteries, memory, processors, and display options, as well as the challenges of fitting everything into a compact form factor. The importance of the device's feel and substance is emphasized, with the creator using physical models to simulate the weight and density of the final product. The iterative process of design, including the use of 3D tools and the examination of competitor products, is discussed, highlighting the creator's meticulous attention to detail and the need to balance multiple constraints and variables.
π‘ Overcoming Doubt and the Risks of Innovation
The creator shares his internal struggles with doubt and the risks associated with developing the iPod. The challenges of convincing oneself and others of the feasibility of the project are discussed, along with the need to maintain credibility and confidence. The creator's previous experiences and learnings from General Magic and Philips are mentioned as valuable in managing the development process. The conversation also touches on the state of Apple at the time, including its financial situation and market position, and the significant risks involved in committing resources to the iPod project. The creator's concerns about competing with industry giants like Sony and the importance of marketing and retail strategy are also highlighted.
π΅ The iPod and iTunes: A Perfect Harmony
The relationship between the iPod and iTunes is explored, with the origins of iTunes as a MP3 player app for the Mac and its evolution into a platform for music management and consumption. The creator's involvement in the project post-six weeks is discussed, along with the vision of Steve Jobs and Jeff Robbin for integrating the iPod with iTunes. The strategic decision to allocate marketing resources to the iPod and iTunes is highlighted, emphasizing the belief in the product's potential to revolutionize the music industry. The discussion also covers the challenges of working with Apple's limited resources at the time and the critical role of the iPod in attracting new users to the Mac platform, ultimately setting the stage for Apple's future success.
Mindmap
Keywords
π‘iPod
π‘Music Passion
π‘Innovation
π‘Design Process
π‘Steve Jobs
π‘Sony
π‘Dark Side of the Moon
π‘MP3
π‘Engineering
π‘ iTunes
π‘Supply Chain
π‘Flash Memory
Highlights
The individual's love for music since childhood, particularly American and British rock and roll.
The innovative idea of hacking a clock radio to listen to music privately with headphones.
The recognition of 'Stairway to Heaven' as a classic rock song and its impact on the interviewee.
The description of the 'Dark Side of the Moon' as a transformative rock opera that left a lasting impression.
The early adoption of mobile computing products like the Philips Nino and the idea of putting music on them.
The advent of MP3 format and its significant compression capabilities, changing the way music is stored and consumed.
The process of creating a device like the iPod, including the selection of components and the design challenges.
The importance of the physical feel of a device, such as making a weighted styrofoam model to simulate the iPod's form factor.
The strategic decision-making involved in the design process, including the selection of battery types and processing power.
The role of iTunes in the iPod's success and the symbiotic relationship between the two products.
The challenges of convincing Apple to take a risk on the iPod, given the company's financial situation at the time.
The commitment from Apple's leadership to allocate marketing resources to the iPod, showcasing their belief in the product's potential.
The process of tearing apart competitive products to learn from their design and functionality.
The importance of creating a user interface that complements the hardware and enhances the overall user experience.
The iterative design process, involving going back and forth between detailed design work and physical prototyping.
The personal and professional journey that led to the creation of the iPod, from a childhood passion for music to a career in technology and innovation.
Transcripts
what were the ideas that gave birth to
the ipod
you know i i was in love with music
since i was a kid
just loved music from i think second
grade when i got my first albums and
stuff like that what kind of music are
we talking about so this was um
this was led zeppelin
this was the stones hendrix uh aerosmith
uh
cheap trick
styx ted nugent you know just the real
you know the real american and so and
british rock and roll right there's a
bunch of people listening right now who
10 who's who who's that zeppelin what is
that
[Laughter]
um it drove my parents crazy yeah yeah
you just blasted loud loud just right
and this was second third grade fourth
guy i just i fell in love and then
uh we um
we moved back to detroit and i love
listening to the radio station because
there was all kinds of crazy music
because you'd have a
amalgam of rock and then funk and r b
and i loved to listen at night so i had
a clock radio
but if i had the clock radio on everyone
parents go go to sleep stop that turn
that stuff off so i hacked the clock
radio and put a headphone jack in it
nice
right so i said oh they're wow
okay
and then and then i could listen to it
all night and no one could hear me right
and i could just sit there and you know
just huddling around the radio groove
out just listening to zeppelin
there were to heaven
what would you say is the greatest rock
classic rock song of all time
greatest classic rock song of all time
well it pops into mine well no you know
what i mean this has to do with it
dude this is nice
dude this is
a serious journalistic interview
you're not going to back down from these
kinds of questions oh my god no i don't
know challenge yeah it's hard it's hard
to pick but i i to me stairway to heaven
is a safe
fault it's like it's so often considered
to be one of the greatest songs of all
time that you almost don't want to pick
it right exactly but you've returned to
it time and time again and it's like
yeah this is
this is something pretty special
this is a rock opera
of sorts well the rock opera that really
blew me away and still continues to blow
me away is all of dark side of the moon
like that
i love that yeah i love zeppelin i i
can't say which one's better but dark
side of the moon for me was it was a you
know audio experience right the whole
thing from soup to nuts plus all the
synthesizers all of those things
okay so back back to the ipod so that's
you from the early age you loved music
loved it absolutely loved it and you
know always was just around it and
always i just it was always playing you
know um i
played it so loud that i actually hurt
the earring in my right ear
and i still suffer from that today
um and then no regrets no regrets
whatsoever going to concerts in downtown
detroit and all that crazy stuff so
moving forward um
so i in college i was a dj
so i would dj and hang out and play all
the tunes i love and whatever for the
for the crowd and then i continued to do
that in silicon valley
when when i moved right after school
and so i was be lugging all of these cds
around with me a thousand cds to right
and
and at the same time
and so those were heavy and at the same
time i was doing the philips nino
and velo those are window ce-based
mobile computing products
the nino was the first
device to actually put audible books on
tape so we i worked with audible we met
in a conference and they were like we
don't want to do hardware we just want
to do content i was like well we have
this device let's get it together and we
got audible on that and this was in
96 or seven
first audible books and it you know as i
was oh my god that's audio
well what if we put music on it
right and so i i could the and the
memory was very small at the time right
there was almost there was almost no
flash it was all dram when you did
audible you stored it in dram
right which was okay probably because
uh how much
books do you need is the idea by the way
brilliant i mean just putting books
i know it's probably not the sexiest of
things but putting books
on
on a mobile device is a brilliant step
i i don't know you sometimes can't
measure
how much human progress occurred because
of an invention like there's the sexy
big products but you never know like
maybe like wikipedia is one of those
things that doesn't get enough
i think credit for the transformational
effects it has it's not seen as the
sexiest of products but maybe it is when
you look at human history
wikipedia
arguably is one of the big things that
that basically unlocked
human knowledge human knowledge okay and
human editing and human you know just
the human human nature of building
something together yeah so it's it's
fascinating sometimes you can't measure
those things maybe until many many
decades later anyway sorry so that was
that was the nino that was so that's
that was there and then there was
audible they put books why not put music
music and i'm carrying around the music
for the dj gigs and you're like wait a
second uh two and two together right
like get let's get rid of this and so
and then mp3 show up
the the actual like encoder performance
the format mp3 showed up around 97.98
so mp3 is compressed so you can
have uh
like the storage is reduced
significantly right so you could go from
a um you know a large full full uh
losses lossless um you know digital
track into something that can be stored
in
four to eight megabytes something like
that for the audio now you know that's a
reduced quality but you could get it
down there and you're like oh
okay and now if we have enough flash or
dram we can put 10 15 what have you all
in that same memory and it starts to
replicate a cd and then ultimately if
you put it on a hard drive you could
start to put you know thousands of songs
yeah that's that's also another
brilliant invention like people don't
realize
i think i think people would be
surprised how big
in terms of storage raw audio is and the
fact you can compress it
like
uh
i don't know what the compression is but
it's like 10x it's very significant
compression and still it sounds almost
lossless much of the chagrin of neil
young who yeah who does not like that
but even even neil young
even the stuff he talks about is still
tiny files relative to the raw right so
he he wants us to increase it just a
little bit more a little bit more but
it's still that's an invention that's a
thing that unlocks your ability to carry
around the device like nino and listen
to music because without that there's no
way you can carry on a gigantic hard
drive
right exactly and so so then that so it
was mp3s the nino and my you know my my
hatred of carrying around all this heavy
stuff that then
spawned you know um fused and then
ultimately you know became
a lot of that the ideas and things of
that nature were
and and my passions were born into then
the ipod you know it was too
apple needed something and i wanted to
fix something and it all kind of you
know came together at this right right
place right time plus the right
technology came at this it was just like
the stars aligned so how did it come to
life
the details of
the stars aligning but the actual design
the actual engineering of getting a
device to be small
the uh
the storage of the you know the
interface how it looks sure um
the storage the details of the software
all that kind of stuff what what are
some interesting memories from that
design process what are some wisdoms you
you can
yeah
parts okay from that process well
you know how long do you want to go
because i have i can go deep uh so uh
let's go at least 20 hours let's go okay
yeah that's one of the lengthy
documentaries we're gonna turn it into
episodic uh yeah binge
game of thrones so let's just start with
uh you know after i was asked to be a
consultant to put this thing together
so i had already had knowledge of you
know the the space and the technology
and all that stuff but i had to very
quickly
and and a lot of the suppliers because
of what i was doing at fuse trying to
create that thing so
at
at as a contractor i was like okay what
is the first thing you need to do so
so after i showed a you know uh um
different architectures and what three
different products could be to steve
about options for storage options
battery options form factor options
there was three options and as i was was
i told uh given very good advice give to
the the two options you really do not
like but their options and give the best
option last because steve will shut you
know shoot all those down and give the
the best option last and then you could
talk about that and so that was the one
that had a 1.8 inch hard drive
and a small screen
uh like with the screen you you you know
it uh and the on the original ipod
classic ipod
and uh and then i had enough of the idea
of the three or three or four different
uh
cpus and processor suppliers and kind of
systems that were out there that i had
gone and found and put together on power
supplies you know uh disk drive
interfaces firewire interface all that
stuff so i put together all of those
those schematics or you know block
diagrams they weren't schematics yet
because it was just me
and coming up with a bill of materials
coming up with what it could look like
what would be the input output how we
could uh
make a better headphone jack um that was
also on there screen suppliers
tearing apart calculators so got all
calculators and all kinds of electronics
to get the the right size um
different sizes of small lcds
so i got all kinds of different battery
types i got different types of uh you
know in different battery sizes double
a's triple a's working through all the
different
and there was lithium ion nickel metal
hydride so i took all the battery types
i took all of the
memory types processing types lcd types
and
um
and and connectivity and all that stuff
not wireless but wired
and
laid out these things as lego blocks so
literally had all of these things is
just and so i made them so i could like
you know put them together and figure
out what the compact fac form factor
would be oh like how do we shove them
together what's the smallest possible
box you can get so the the questions
without the storage so the hard drive
batteries double a triple a you're right
screens so screen size and then for that
you're tearing apart calculators
calculators digital cameras whatever and
getting little things right so so you
can make it physical right if you can
make the intangible tangible like and so
i can say look we can make this and i
could i brought this whole bag of goods
and it was like
right and like here's this here's this
this is why double a's won't work and
because it makes it too fat and
everything so just educate everybody
through here's the parts that we can use
you should not sheet a paper it's
physical you're playing in the physical
space well i would go back and forth so
truth be told because there weren't a
good enough graphical tools on on a
on the mac i was using a pc with vizio
and some 3d tools and i was doing 3d
design at the same time i was taking all
these physical parts and going okay what
feels right because you have to go from
you know the details and then the rough
and you go back and forth and you
iterate right and so it was just a lot
of fun and then i ultimately ended up
with a styrofoam model and printouts
that came from vizio that i
glued together and put my grandfather's
fishing weights in because i also
modeled the weights
right so i i said oh this is this many
ounces this is this many ounces and
grams and then i went and got all that
and made the weighted these styrofoam
models
to then match that so when you picked it
up it felt more or less form factor
right and it also you felt
how much you know was it going to be
dense enough is it going to feel solid
and rigid in your hand
right
why does need to feel rigid because it
has to feel substantial it has to feel
like i have like a like a bar of gold in
my hand right you know maybe you know
this
when you open and close a car door you
know that thunk and you go bam and you
go that feels solid that feels real and
then you get this tinny car that's like
ding and you're like does this feel safe
does this feel like a value and so you
when you have a device like that and you
you want to make sure that there's not
too much air in it that you distributed
the density of the masses in the right
way so it feels like it's the right
thing so you have to model battery life
costs
you know
mass
sizes of different things and then you
have to also think about what the ui is
going to look like right so you have all
of these constraints your work variables
you're working with and you have to kind
of you know you can't get the perfect of
everything what's the best you know
local maximum of all of these components
that come together to provide an
experience local max it's always
trade-offs what about buttons
buttons oh well there was also the
buttons too right oh by the way a lot of
these battles fought inside your mind or
is it with other people is it uh is it
with steve is it lower like what this
was all independent this was me before
being able to present to see because i
had to feel really confident
that
if i was going to put this in front of
him that it could be made right so i had
to convince myself and go work through
all the details through the like the
very very rough mechanical design
electrical design software things
because i didn't want to present
something that was going to be fictional
right my credibility view would be like
trashed
right so you mentioned convince yourself
you're painting this beautiful picture
of of a driven
engineer designer
uh futurist
how much doubt were you plagued by
through that like this this is even
doable because it's not obvious that
this is even doable
like to do this at scale to do this kind
of thing to make it sexy
to uh
[Music]
shovel
the screen the batteries the storage to
make the interface the hardware and the
software interface work all of that i
mean i don't know i would be overwhelmed
by the doubt of that because so many
things have to work plus the supply
chain like at that point i wasn't
getting into any of those details or
anything you know there's there's the
basic stuff that you have to put
together and then you have to you know
through my learnings at general magic
and my learnings at philips and
delivering you know multiple you know
large-scale programs and manufacturing
you kind of get a rule of thumb and you
know what to focus on at the beginning
and what not to worry about over time
like when i was early in my career i
worried about everything on the
engineering details so much so that you
know i would be a nervous wreck sooner
or later you learn how to filter out and
figure out what to prioritize and so 10
years later you know i was able to much
do a much better job of filtering out
the things of like we'll get to that in
the you know in weeks to come but right
now we got to like solve you know the
the very
important things which is is could this
actually be something real and that you
could deliver you know enough battery
life right enough of an interface um at
the right cost
right in the right right uh right price
point so you already you're sitting on
on a track record of successes and
failures in your own mind where you had
sort of already a confidence a calm a
calmness
uh but still
was there a doubt that you can get this
done always
always how hard is it to achieve a sort
of a confidence
to a level where you can present it to
steve and actually believe that this is
doable
like what do you remember when yeah that
moment yeah i think it was after i
triple checked i couldn't
i couldn't bring anyone in
right i couldn't let anyone in on this
so it was just me are they going to
trample on it that kind of thing why no
no because i couldn't bring any what i
mean bring anyone in on this one it was
a highly confidential program inside of
apple there was like four people who
knew about it right
and so i couldn't bring anyone from
apple because and i was a contractor i
couldn't bring anyone else from the
outside world i'm working for apple and
i'm under this
crazy nda right in this contract so it
was just
it was so i'm i'm
i'm doing this oh and at the same time
i'm also buying every competitive
product mp3 player and tearing them all
apart yeah right tore them all apart and
looking at them and trying to learn from
those as well so it was all of this
stuff in six weeks so i didn't sleep
right yeah yeah but i i was like because
i was trying to make this from i was i
was envisioning this since the nino
right and i was like oh my god right
but there was another doubt that i had
and it wasn't just could you make the
product but could actu apple actually
have
the um
the balls to make it because apple was
not the same company
that you know it today in 2001
really it was cautious conservative
careful
it was barely break even it was a four
or five billion dollar company oh so the
guts required there is not necessarily
in the innovation it's like this is
going to cost a lot of money we're going
to potentially lose all of it because
it'll be
a flop
well there's not just that but there was
only the mac
yeah and the mac wasn't doing very well
yeah there was less it was about a one
percent only in the u.s market share for
the mac
right
the company was in debt bill gates had
to give him a loan
right michael dell at the time was
saying shut down the company and give
the money back to the shareholders
so
this is not the company that you know
that people oh my god the iphone came
out it's a very different level of
confidence and financial
situation that the company was in versus
the ipod so given that what was the
conversation when you finally presented
to steve
what was that conversation like
the conversation was
well we went we went through it the
presentation and all that stuff happened
and he he was just like and you know he
never he would flip through it real
quick throw the presentation aside and
said okay let's talk about this
right and so we went through it all
and
um
one was a big conversation about sony
and sony was the number one in all audio
categories home portable what
in the world okay
i had been already gone through 10 years
of failure and i was like wait a second
how are we going to compete with sony
and i was always worried that sony was
going to come out with whatever it was
they were going to come out with their
mp3 player and that was it game over
right
and so i was like
steve
and and this is why it took me
four weeks to finally sign on to join
apple after he greenlighted the ipod
program in that meeting
was because
i had built other things in the past at
phillips the nino and velo but they
didn't know how to sell it or market it
they didn't know how to retail it
right so i was like we could build this
and i was like steve i'm pretty sure i
can build this i've done this before
but how are we going to sell it
you have all your marketing dollars on
the mac
and he looked at me and he goes you
build this
with you know a team and our team and
apple open business to me right
and
i dedicate that we will make sure that
at least two quarters of all marketing
dollars will only go to this product and
nothing else
wow
right that was mac was the lifeblood of
all revenue of the company so steve saw
something special here
exactly
and he said i'm going to commit all the
marketing dollars if you can deliver the
experience that we're all talking about
if we can do that and that was jeff
robin as well because i ipod would have
never happened without itunes you know
people don't understand that was a
bundle you couldn't do one without the
other and vice versa so jeff and i were
you know if jeff and you can present and
bring that um
bring that experience to life
i will put all the marketing dollars
behind it when did the marriage of ipod
and itunes
sort of
uh
what was that
a birth of ideas that made up itunes
itunes existed before the ipod
okay
and so jeff robin had his company oh man
i can't remember her name but it was
bought he was making a mp3 player app
for the mac
steve saw it because there was mp3
player apps like winamp and other things
that were on the pc real player
and steve saw that going on and saw that
jeff and his small team had this this i
can't remember sound something
anyways he bought that and that became
the basis of itunes and then jeff ran
all of itunes and so what happened
specifically there was they were
starting to hook up to all these
third-party mp3 players
because there's a lot of korean
the mp man like walkman but mp man all
these
and they were trying to hook them up and
they were like these are horrible
experiences
and through that and they said
itunes was something that was going to
help grow the mac base because we were
trying to get more and people on the mac
so this program would be a great new
thing you could add to the mac
and there was also internet connectivity
at the time for the imac and so they did
that and then they're trying to do these
these hookups they weren't going well
and that's when they said we need to
build our own or steve said we need to
build our own since these are such
horrible experiences people don't want
to just burn cds from itunes we need to
get that music on the go but in an apple
fashion that's when i was called
to come in to do that the ipod thing
after the six weeks then he already
envisioned i'm sure he had envisioned
because they were trying to do this
thing
okay now that's it
itunes what you know it wasn't called
ipod yet you know what would become the
ipod that is going to be the thing that
then propels apple into this new thing
because you've been bringing all these
music lovers in that are going to need
their
their
next generation or sony walkman
version 2.0
you
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