Navigating Nastiness

Summary

In this episode of Bookwormies, host Aaron Helton delves into 'Nasty People: How to Stop Being Hurt by Them, Without Stooping to Their Level' by Jay Carter. The book, published in 2003, offers insights on dealing with invalidators—those who undermine others—and provides strategies for setting boundaries to prevent being a victim. Aaron candidly shares his personal struggles with boundaries and people-pleasing, highlighting the importance of recognizing invalidation cycles and seeking support to break free from them. The episode emphasizes the book's relevance for both victims and invalidators, encouraging self-reflection and change.

Takeaways

• 📚 The book 'Nasty People: How to Stop Being Hurt by Them, Without Stooping to Their Level' by Jay Carter, published in 2003, is discussed in the podcast.
• 🚫 The book addresses the issue of dealing with people who exhibit nasty behavior without resorting to similar tactics.
• ⏰ It's a quick read, consisting of only 100 pages, making it a potentially one-day read for some.
• 🔍 The book delves into the psychology behind why some people become 'invalidators' and how it can be a cycle of behavior.
• 🤔 The host, Aaron Helton, shares personal experiences and struggles with setting boundaries and dealing with invalidation.
• 🧠 The book touches on topics like self-doubt, chemical imbalances, and personality disorders, with insights from the author's background in psychology.
• 🔑 It emphasizes the importance of breaking the cycle of invalidation and provides strategies for victims to set boundaries.
• 🤝 The book suggests that the role of the 'victim' is to break the cycle of invalidation, which can be a difficult but necessary task.
• 💡 A key lesson from the book is the concept of a 'third option', encouraging readers to think beyond binary choices when faced with invalidation.
• 👥 The book is recommended for people pleasers, victims of invalidation, and even those who may be unconscious invalidators, to understand and change their behavior.

Q & A

What is the title of the book discussed in the podcast episode?

The title of the book discussed is 'Nasty People, How to Stop Being Hurt by Them, Without Stooping to Their Level'.

Who is the author of the book 'Nasty People'?

The author of the book 'Nasty People' is Jay Carter.

What year was the book 'Nasty People' published?

The book 'Nasty People' was published in 2003.

What is the main theme of the book 'Nasty People'?

The main theme of the book 'Nasty People' is about dealing with individuals who invalidate others and how to set boundaries to protect oneself from such behavior without becoming like them.

What does the term 'invalidators' refer to in the context of the book?

In the context of the book, 'invalidators' refers to individuals who exhibit nasty behavior, such as putting others down through inappropriate actions.

What does the host, Aaron Helton, believe is the role of the 'victim' in breaking the cycle of invalidation?

Aaron Helton believes that it is the role of the 'victim' to break the cycle of invalidation by setting boundaries and not allowing the behavior to continue.

How does Aaron Helton relate the book's content to his personal experiences?

Aaron Helton relates the book's content to his personal experiences by discussing his struggles with setting boundaries and his past as a people pleaser, as well as his ASD diagnosis and how it made him more susceptible to invalidation.

What is the significance of the 'tea and stick' scenario mentioned in the book?

The 'tea and stick' scenario is significant because it illustrates the concept of binary choices and the importance of finding a third option to break free from the cycle of invalidation.

What is the host's recommendation for those who struggle with setting boundaries?

The host recommends the book 'Nasty People' for anyone who is a people pleaser and wants to learn to better set boundaries, as well as for those who feel they might be invalidators themselves.

Why does the host believe it's important to seek help and support when dealing with invalidation?

The host believes it's important to seek help and support because it can provide a sense of safety and familiarity, which can be crucial in breaking the cycle of invalidation and learning to set boundaries.

What is the host's final takeaway from the book 'Nasty People'?

The host's final takeaway is the importance of recognizing binary choices and learning to find third options to deal with invalidation, which can help in breaking the cycle and improving personal boundaries.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Introduction to 'Nasty People' and Personal Struggles

Host Aaron Helton welcomes viewers to Bookwormies, a show focusing on non-fiction books. He introduces the book 'Nasty People, How to Stop Being Hurt by Them, Without Stooping to Their Level' by Jay Carter, published in 2003. The book addresses dealing with people who exhibit nasty behaviors and provides strategies for setting boundaries without retaliating in kind. Aaron shares his personal experiences with setting boundaries, particularly after receiving an ASD diagnosis, and how the book helped him navigate such challenges. He emphasizes the book's relevance to anyone who has faced invalidation or struggled with asserting oneself against such behavior.

05:01

🔍 Understanding Invalidation and Its Impact

In this segment, Aaron delves deeper into the concept of invalidation, explaining the different types of invalidators, from the overtly critical to the subtly undermining 'friends' who claim to offer 'honest' feedback. He discusses the book's exploration of why people become invalidators and the cycle of invalidation that can perpetuate harmful behaviors. Aaron also touches on the trauma response of victims and the importance of seeking support to break free from such cycles. A key lesson from the book is highlighted through a metaphorical story about a 'master' and a 'victim,' illustrating the importance of looking for a third option beyond binary choices to escape the cycle of invalidation.

10:02

🌟 Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Aaron concludes the episode by reiterating the book's value, even two decades after its publication. He recommends 'Nasty People' to people pleasers seeking to set better boundaries, those who feel invalidated, and even potential invalidators who wish to understand their impact on others. He encourages readers to reflect on their behaviors and motivations, aiming to foster personal growth and healthier relationships. The episode ends with Aaron thanking viewers for joining him on this literary journey and looking forward to their next encounter.

Keywords

💡Nasty People

The term 'nasty people' refers to individuals who engage in behaviors that invalidate or belittle others. In the context of the video, the host discusses how these behaviors can create a cycle of negativity, where the victim may become an invalidator themselves. This concept is central to understanding the dynamics of interpersonal relationships and the impact of negative interactions.

💡Invalidation

Invalidation is the act of dismissing or undermining someone's feelings or experiences. The host emphasizes that invalidation can come from various sources, including friends and acquaintances, and can lead to feelings of worthlessness in the victim. This concept is crucial in the video as it explores how to recognize and combat such behaviors.

💡Boundaries

Boundaries are personal limits that individuals set to protect their emotional and mental well-being. The host shares their struggles with establishing boundaries, particularly in the face of invalidation. The discussion highlights the importance of boundaries in maintaining healthy relationships and preventing the cycle of being a victim or an invalidator.

💡People Pleaser

A people pleaser is someone who prioritizes the approval of others over their own needs and feelings. The host identifies themselves as a former people pleaser, which made it difficult for them to set boundaries. This concept illustrates the challenges faced by individuals who struggle to assert themselves in relationships, often leading to further invalidation.

💡Cycle of Negativity

The cycle of negativity refers to the repetitive pattern where individuals who have been invalidated may go on to invalidate others. The host discusses how this cycle perpetuates harmful behaviors and emphasizes the need for victims to break this cycle. Understanding this cycle is key to addressing interpersonal conflicts and fostering healthier interactions.

💡Self-Doubt

Self-doubt is a lack of confidence in oneself and one's abilities. The host mentions self-doubt as a significant theme in the book, linking it to the experiences of victims of invalidation. This concept is important as it highlights how invalidation can erode self-esteem and hinder personal growth.

💡ASD Diagnosis

ASD, or Autism Spectrum Disorder, is a developmental disorder that affects communication and behavior. The host references their own ASD diagnosis to explain how their trusting nature made them susceptible to invalidation. This personal context adds depth to the discussion, illustrating how different backgrounds can influence experiences with invalidation.

💡Binary Choices

Binary choices refer to the limited options people perceive in decision-making, often framed as 'this or that.' The host reflects on how they used to see situations in binary terms, feeling trapped in their responses to invalidation. This concept is pivotal in the video as it encourages viewers to seek alternative solutions beyond the obvious choices.

💡Victim

In the context of the video, a victim is someone who experiences invalidation and is affected by the negative behaviors of others. The host clarifies that this term does not refer to severe trauma but rather to everyday interactions. Understanding the role of the victim is essential for recognizing the impact of invalidation and the need for boundary-setting.

💡Third Option

The third option is a concept introduced by the host as a way to navigate challenging situations. Instead of accepting binary choices, the host encourages finding alternative solutions, such as removing the source of conflict. This idea is illustrated through a metaphor involving a master and a cup of tea, emphasizing creative problem-solving in the face of invalidation.

Highlights

Introduction to the book 'Nasty People, How to Stop Being Hurt by Them, Without Stooping to Their Level' by Jay Carter.

Discussion on the importance of setting boundaries with nasty people.

The book's exploration of the psychology behind invalidation and nasty behaviors.

Aaron Helton's personal struggles with setting boundaries and being a people pleaser.

The concept of invalidators and victims in the context of everyday interactions.

The cycle of invalidation and how it can perpetuate negative behaviors.

The role of trust and gullibility in becoming a victim of invalidation.

Aaron's ASD diagnosis and how it relates to his experiences with invalidation.

The fear of setting boundaries and the risk of becoming an invalidator oneself.

The book's discussion on self-doubt, chemical imbalances, and personality disorders.

Identification of different types of invalidators, from obvious to subtle.

The importance of breaking the cycle of invalidation for personal growth.

The metaphor of the 'master and the tea' to illustrate the concept of binary choices and finding a third option.

Aaron's realization of the need to look for third options beyond binary choices in dealing with invalidation.

Recommendation of the book for people pleasers, victims of invalidation, and potential invalidators.

The book's impact on Aaron's approach to dealing with nasty people and setting boundaries.

Closing thoughts and a call to action for listeners to reflect on their own experiences with invalidation.

Transcripts

Alright, hello hello!

Welcome back to another episode of Bookwormies.

As always, I'm your host, Aaron Helton, here to take you down the road to non-fiction books.

Today we're going to be looking a little bit into the past of the book from 2003 and a

little bit of my own struggles with setting boundaries.

So the book we're looking at today is called Nasty People, How to Stop Being Hurt by Them

Without Stooping to Their Level by Jay Carter with a side E.

So we all know nasty people, right?

We all know somebody or we've all been that person that has invalidated somebody in the

past.

We've also been victims of nasty behaviors.

Now as always, there's a disclaimer of when I say the word victim, in this book we talk

about invalidators, so those that have nasty behavior and basically put others down with

behaviors that are simply inappropriate and then victims.

Victim is not referring to like highly traumatic situations.

I don't want to talk into that field.

It is not my expertise.

This book simply talks about basically interactions with individuals that invalidate you and then

you as the victim, how to set those boundaries and how to basically fight back against those

behaviors or what to do to get yourself out of those situations.

So this book was from, as I mentioned, 2003.

It's a very quick read, 100 pages.

So for me, it's a quick one day's read for five hours, right?

And I needed this book.

When I was starting my coaching, when I was talking with my boss, the one who actually

recommended it to me, I was struggling.

We were having our check-ins as I was adjusting to a new city, a new way of life, all sorts

of different things.

And we talked a lot about my struggles, not only in the past, but in the present at that

time.

And some days now in the present, as I speak to you about this and record this, sometimes

I still struggle with these boundaries or with being faced with invalidating behavior.

And I fall back on old habits, which is to basically show my underbelly like an animal

and just to submit and let whatever's going on go on.

And that's not courageous.

That's not leadership.

That's not strong.

It's tough to stand against invalidators that make you feel small because when you feel

small, it's all the harder to feel strong and big and capable and empowered.

But I loved this book because basically it explores the mechanisms of that invalidation.

It talks a little bit about why are you an invalidator?

What happened?

Why are you nasty towards others?

And basically it says, hey, sometimes it's a cycle.

Somebody invalidated you and took your power away.

So you become an invalidator and take somebody else's power away so that you can feel better.

We're all familiar with that cycle and it's nasty.

So the victims, those that become invalidated, it's unfortunately and it's unfairly their

job to break that cycle.

As we've seen in many media and many situations, the underdog sometimes needs to step up in

order to create a break in that cycle.

So let's talk about some of the specifics.

For me, I want to talk a little bit about my ASD diagnosis and how a lot of times invalidation

for me or being the victim of invalidation came from me believing things at face value,

me being very trusting.

And I want to say that there's nothing inherently wrong with having trust for other people.

I think that's absolutely necessary for the world to run.

If everybody distrusted every single other person, there would be no interdependence.

There would just be independence and it would be just, I would never need another person.

And that just seems very sad and isolating to me.

So that gullibleness, that sense of trust, I was definitely taken advantage of quite

a bit in my past.

And when you learn to set those boundaries, sometimes you flip to the other side and you

become an invalidator or you push too hard in setting boundaries.

And that is probably the biggest fear that I had in learning to set boundaries and stop

being a people pleaser.

That was definitely my hardest hurdle.

So those who read this book and want to start setting boundaries and breaking that cycle,

it's a long and difficult road and you will slip up.

That's simply par for the course.

But yeah, let's talk about it.

Ultimately, as I mentioned, this book is a very quick read.

And so it talks a lot about self doubt and a little bit about chemical imbalances and

personality disorders.

Again, the person that wrote this, Jay Carter is a PsyD.

I believe PsyD is a PhD but specific in psychological application, I believe.

I may be mistaken on that.

So grain of salt, please.

It talks about the archetype of an invalidator and it talks a little bit about like what the

most obvious personality of the invalidator is and then some of the less obvious personalities.

So an invalidator, we think of, okay, you put somebody down, then you're critical of

them, your name calling, etc.

Some of the less obvious versions might be, oh, they're bringing up the past or they're

saying what might be called a neg, which is a kind of a backhanded compliment.

Like oh, you know, I love your makeup.

I just wish it went with your face or something.

And you just go, oh, that didn't feel very great.

That's a less obvious form of invalidation.

Of course, the least obvious one, it says right here, page 35, in their least obvious

personality, the invalidator appears to be your good buddy.

They always have some negative thing to tell you quote unquote in good faith.

They love to be quote honest and truthful quote unquote.

And of course, that is a sarcastic quoting in the sense of, hey, I'm just telling you

this because I'm your friend, but really it's just putting you down and it's not great.

It's still invalidation at its core.

Of course, we also go on to talk a little bit about the victims and how there's still

that I suppose trauma response to again varying degrees.

And I'm not speaking of abuse or anything like that.

That's simply outside my expertise, but talking about victims where there's safety in the

familiarity of, well, I mean, all they're doing is putting me down.

It could be worse.

And it goes, ah, it's a difficult situation to be in.

It is because it's familiar, but it's still painful.

It's still hurting you.

It's still invalidation.

And I personally would implore you to seek help and get a group together that you can

lean on to feel supported in order to maybe break those cycles.

Again, outside of my expertise, but that is a regurgitation, I suppose, of some common

suggestions.

So that said, on nasty people talking about the victims, really the main theme out of

this book that I want to talk about is on page 18.

So there's a little comic.

So a theme in this book is that there's all these little cartoons and there's this really

like cute and kind of yucky characters at times.

Just kind of very dramatized.

Page 18, there's this quote unquote master and it's this older character in a wizard's

robe and they have this stick they have.

And there's this confused individual sitting at the table with a cup of tea right in front

of them.

So basically the master says, hey, this is your lesson for today.

If you pick up this tea, I'll hit you with the stick.

And if you don't pick up this cup of tea, I'll hit you with the stick.

And so in the book, this is the lesson that stood out to me the most.

Basically you have that question.

There are two answers that will solve the problem.

One is a good answer because it solves the problem while still maintaining a relationship

with the master.

The answer is you take the stick away because so many people hear that and they hear if

you drink this tea, you're going to get whacked.

If you don't drink this tea, you're going to get whacked.

And people say, oh, well, might as well drink the tea.

I get something out of it.

Right.

But no, you take away the stick.

You have a third choice.

You have an option that's outside of what you were thinking.

The other answer, Jay Carter writes, is to walk away.

This answer solves the problem, but cuts off further interaction with the master.

So ultimately this lesson hit me so hard because for a long time, binary choices were my normal.

It was, I have to act this way or I get isolated or ostracized or invalidated.

I have to stay or it's going to be much worse.

And changing my belief to becoming, there's going to be a third option somehow.

How do I take away the stick because sometimes I'm both the person drinking the tea and the

master.

And so sometimes I'm invalidating myself in my decisions.

I guess that takes this theme of the book a little further, but when dealing with other

nasty people, because that is the first step when we think about nasty people, we tend

to think about others and those that wrong us.

It's how can I take away the stick?

How do I turn what I believe is a binary choice?

I have to do this or this consequence.

How do I turn that into a, what's the third option?

What else can I do?

What else can I try?

And that was one of the biggest lessons I got from this book.

And I would definitely recommend it even 20 years old of a book.

It is still incredible to me that it is this impactful.

So I would definitely recommend this book for anybody who is a people pleaser and wants

to learn to better set boundaries, to better have habits that they can try towards setting

those boundaries or reducing that people pleasing.

Anybody that relates to the victim as far as the definition in this book, which is those

that become invalidated.

Again, you know, I'm not saying victim in the sense of trauma, that is a separate thing,

but maybe this book would help as well.

I also want to recommend this book to those who want to set those boundaries and also

to invalidators.

If you feel that you have wronged somebody or somebody has told you, man, you invalidate

my feelings sometimes thinking, hey, you know, what are the behaviors, what are the thoughts?

What is the motivator that I have that's causing me to harm other people in this way or belittle

others?

I would recommend you pick up this book so that you could understand the impact you have

on others.

And then also to see some of the behaviors that might be harmful and how you can change

those.

Hi, as always, thank you for stopping by on another journey into nonfiction, checking

out this book.

And as always, I'm your host, Aaron Helton.

I'll see you next time.

Thank you again.

Bye.

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