Brookfield's Flatt: Commercial Real Estate Is at an Inflection Point

Summary

In this interview, Brookfield's CEO Bruce Flatt discusses the company's growth and investment strategies. He highlights Brookfield's role as a major investor in global infrastructure, focusing on long-term trends like digitalization, decarbonization, and globalization. Flatt emphasizes the importance of patience and strategic investment, as well as the company's ability to adapt to changing economic landscapes. He also shares insights on the future of commercial real estate, seeing opportunities amidst current market challenges.

Takeaways

• 🌐 Brookfield is a global leader in alternative investments, owning and funding assets that form the backbone of the global economy, including infrastructure and real estate.
• 💡 Bruce Flatt, CEO of Brookfield, emphasizes the importance of patience and careful investment selection, avoiding risky ventures and focusing on long-term growth.
• 🔄 The company has evolved over two decades, adapting to changes in the global economy and investing in sectors like data centers, telecom towers, and renewable energy.
• 🌬️ Brookfield's strategy is influenced by three major trends: digitalization, decarbonization, and globalization, which are expected to shape the world for the next 20 to 30 years.
• 🌍 Geopolitical shifts and interest rate fluctuations are considered less relevant to Brookfield's long-term investment themes, which focus on sustainable and technological advancements.
• 💹 Brookfield's success is attributed to its thoughtful approach to investing, its ability to compound wealth over time, and its focus on moderate risk for clients with long investment durations.
• 🏢 Commercial real estate is seen as an opportunity by Brookfield, with the potential to capitalize on market inflection points and invest in quality assets.
• 🔄 Brookfield is expanding its investment scope to include financial infrastructure, recognizing it as the next phase of infrastructure investing.
• 🤝 The company is open to partnerships and acquisitions that align with its strategic goals, such as the transformative partnership with Oaktree in 2018.
• 🌱 Brookfield is committed to supporting the transition to a low-carbon economy, investing in renewable energy and infrastructure that reduces carbon emissions.
• 🛠️ The organization's culture focuses on nurturing young talent, providing opportunities for growth, and ensuring a strong entrepreneurial spirit within the company.

Q & A

What is Brookfield's role in the global economy?

Brookfield invests in and owns assets that form the backbone of the global economy, including infrastructure such as hydroelectric plants, cell phone towers, power lines, wind farms, ports, and real estate.

How does Bruce Flatt describe his approach to investment?

Bruce Flatt emphasizes patience and finding the right investments, focusing on long-term growth and understanding the future trends. He believes in investing in sectors that may seem risky to others but are well-informed decisions based on their extensive experience in the industry.

What are the three mega trends that Brookfield is focusing on?

The three mega trends that Brookfield is focusing on are the digitalization, decarbonization, and globalization of everything, which are expected to be dominant in investing for the next 20 to 30 years.

How does Brookfield manage the impact of geopolitical changes on its investments?

Brookfield manages geopolitical impacts by choosing good countries to invest in, maintaining a long-term investment horizon, and focusing on themes that are less affected by short-term political changes, such as infrastructure and renewable energy.

What is Brookfield's strategy for dealing with the challenges of AI and digitalization?

Brookfield sees AI and digitalization as tailwinds for their investment sectors. They have been pushing into these areas for the last five to ten years and continue to invest in data centers and connectivity infrastructure that supports the digitalization of everything.

How does Brookfield approach the transition to a low-carbon economy?

Brookfield is funding the transition to a low-carbon economy by investing in and building solar, wind, and battery infrastructure. They focus on supporting technology companies that are leading the green transition and providing the infrastructure needed for this shift.

What is Brookfield's strategy for infrastructure investing?

Brookfield's strategy for infrastructure investing involves creating separate funds for different markets and investment themes, such as a separate fund for the Middle East and a pool for financial infrastructure, to cater to the specific needs of clients and market opportunities.

How does Bruce Flatt view the current state of commercial real estate?

Bruce Flatt sees opportunities in the current state of commercial real estate, despite concerns about a shakeout. He believes that fundamentals are improving, interest rates are coming down, and there are opportunities for those who know how to pick the right assets at the right time.

What is Brookfield's approach to talent development and leadership succession?

Brookfield focuses on bringing up young talent, providing them with opportunities they wouldn't get elsewhere, and growing them throughout the organization. Bruce Flatt plans to transition to an executive chairman role to mentor young leaders and help with business development.

How does Brookfield handle the challenge of staying relevant in a rapidly changing world?

Brookfield stays relevant by continuously evolving its business, investing in sectors that are transforming the economy, and learning from the changing trends. They also maintain a culture that encourages entrepreneurial spirit and hard work among their employees.

What is Bruce Flatt's perspective on the role of leadership in 2024?

Bruce Flatt believes that leadership in 2024 should focus on mentoring young talent and providing opportunities for growth. He emphasizes that different organizations may have different approaches to leadership, and what works for Brookfield may not be suitable for everyone.

Outlines

00:00

🌟 Introduction to Brookfield and Bruce Flatt's Visionary Leadership

This paragraph introduces Brookfield as one of the world's largest alternative investment companies, owning a diverse range of assets from hydroelectric plants to real estate. Bruce Flatt, the CEO, is highlighted as a visionary investor with over two decades of experience, managing more than $900 billion in assets. The focus is on patience and making the right investments, with an emphasis on the company's low-profile nature as a strength. Flatt discusses the evolution of the business over 22 years, the importance of adapting to changes such as the rise of data centers and telecom towers, and the challenge of avoiding obsolescence like Kodak. He identifies three major trends driving the world: digitalization, decarbonization, and globalization, which are expected to shape investment over the next 20 to 30 years.

05:02

🚀 Impact of Digitalization and AI on Brookfield's Strategy

This paragraph delves into the impact of digitalization and AI on Brookfield's investment strategy. It discusses how the rapid advancement of AI is accelerating the digitalization process, which is a key driver in the company's focus areas. Bruce Flatt explains that the company has been investing in these areas for years, but the advent of AI has made this sector even more critical. The conversation also touches on the transition to a less carbon-intensive economy, with Brookfield actively funding green initiatives and building infrastructure like solar and wind energy. Flatt emphasizes that the shift to renewable energy is driven by technology companies and the need for a low-carbon economy, with Brookfield playing a significant role in this transition.

10:03

🌍 Geopolitics, Global Trends, and Brookfield's Long-Term Investment Approach

In this paragraph, Bruce Flatt discusses the challenges and strategies related to geopolitics and global trends. Despite the worsening geopolitical climate and fluctuations in interest rates, Brookfield remains committed to long-term investments in countries with stable prospects. The company focuses on digitalization, decarbonization, and globalization as its North Star for future investments. Flatt also addresses the issue of geopolitical instability, stating that the key is to invest in the lowest-cost energy solutions, which today are solar and wind, and are not reliant on subsidies. He also discusses the trend of globalization, where production capacity is being diversified across different countries to reduce risk.

15:04

💼 Brookfield's Asset Management and Expansion Plans

This paragraph covers Brookfield's asset management strategies and plans for expansion. Flatt talks about the company's approach to managing risk and compounding wealth for investors over long periods. He mentions Brookfield's move into the credit market, partnering with banks rather than competing with them, and the growth potential in this area due to regulatory changes in the banking system. The conversation also touches on Brookfield's focus on moderate risk and good returns, the importance of information in making investment decisions, and the company's acquisitive nature. Flatt discusses potential transformative acquisitions and the creation of new funds for specific investment areas, such as the Middle East and financial infrastructure.

20:06

🏗️ Bruce Flatt's Outlook on Commercial Real Estate and Brookfield's Future

In the final paragraph, Bruce Flatt shares his optimistic view on the future of commercial real estate despite current market concerns. He identifies opportunities in the sector, particularly in the United States and Europe, where office valuations have dropped. Flatt believes that fundamentals are improving, and with lower interest rates, property values are expected to rise. He discusses Brookfield's strategy of buying opportunistic funds and investing in multifamily properties in the U.S. Flatt also talks about his personal focus areas, including mentoring young talent within the company and the importance of culture. He envisions a future where he transitions to an executive chairman role, allowing younger leaders to take the helm and grow the business.

Keywords

💡Global Business

Refers to the worldwide operations and transactions of economic activities. In the context of the video, it highlights Brookfield's role in funding and owning assets that form the backbone of global economic activities, such as infrastructure and real estate.

💡Alternative Investment

Alternative investments are financial assets that do not fall into the traditional investment categories, such as stocks, bonds, or cash. In the video, Brookfield is described as one of the world's largest alternative investment companies, specializing in infrastructure and real estate investments.

💡Asset Management

Asset management refers to the process of managing and overseeing financial assets to achieve desired returns. In the video, Bruce Flatt has overseen more than $900 billion of assets under management, showcasing Brookfield's significant role in handling and growing investors' wealth.

💡Visionary Investor

A visionary investor is someone who has the ability to foresee market trends and make investment decisions that lead to significant long-term gains. Bruce Flatt is described as a visionary investor with a golden touch, indicating his successful track record and strategic foresight in investments.

💡Patience in Investing

Patience in investing refers to the ability to hold onto investments for a longer period, regardless of short-term market fluctuations, with the expectation of long-term gains. The video emphasizes the importance of patience and strategic investment choices, as exemplified by Brookfield's long-term focus on infrastructure and real estate.

💡Commercial Real Estate

Commercial real estate refers to buildings or properties that are used solely for business purposes, such as offices, retail spaces, and industrial facilities. In the video, Bruce Flatt sees opportunities in commercial real estate despite concerns about market shakeouts and plunging valuations.

💡Decarbonization

Decarbonization is the process of reducing or eliminating the carbon footprint, particularly by shifting from fossil fuels to renewable energy sources. In the context of the video, Brookfield is heavily involved in funding and building solar and wind infrastructure, aligning with the global trend towards decarbonization.

💡Geopolitics

Geopolitics refers to the political relationships and conflicts between countries and regions, and how these dynamics affect international relations and policy. In the video, geopolitics is mentioned as a factor that can influence investment decisions and the global economic landscape.

💡Digitalization

Digitalization is the process of converting information and processes into digital formats, often to improve efficiency and accessibility. In the video, digitalization is cited as one of the mega-trends that will dominate investing over the next 20 to 30 years, driven by advancements in technology like cloud computing and AI.

💡Globalization

Globalization is the process by which businesses, economies, and cultures become increasingly interconnected and interdependent on a global scale. In the video, globalization is mentioned as a long-term trend that influences Brookfield's investment strategies and the global economic landscape.

💡Infrastructure Investing

Infrastructure investing involves putting capital into the construction and maintenance of essential physical and organizational structures needed for the operation of a society, such as transportation, energy, and communication networks. In the video, Brookfield's focus on infrastructure investing is highlighted as a key strategy for long-term growth and profitability.

Highlights

Brookfield is one of the world's largest alternative investment companies with over $900 billion in assets under management.

Bruce Flatt, CEO of Brookfield, emphasizes the importance of patience and finding the right investments in a rapidly changing world.

Brookfield invests in and owns critical infrastructure such as hydroelectric plants, cell phone towers, power lines, and even entire cities.

The company's success is attributed to understanding and adapting to mega trends like digitalization, decarbonization, and globalization.

Bruce Flatt discusses the evolution of Brookfield's investments over two decades, from traditional infrastructure to modern assets like data centers.

Brookfield's strategy involves listening to clients and partners to understand where the future is headed and investing accordingly.

The company is focused on long-term investments, often looking 10 to 50 years into the future.

Bruce Flatt highlights the impact of AI on digitalization, stating that it's exponentially accelerating the sector.

Decarbonization is a key focus for Brookfield, with significant investments in solar, wind, and battery infrastructure.

Brookfield's approach to geopolitics is to find stable countries and invest in infrastructure regardless of political changes or interest rates.

The company is expanding into financial infrastructure, seeing it as the next phase of infrastructure investing.

Brookfield's growth is fueled by its thoughtful approach to client money, aiming to earn good returns with moderate risk over the long term.

Bruce Flatt shares his vision for the future of Brookfield, including a transition to an executive chairman role to mentor younger leaders.

The CEO discusses the cyclical nature of real estate and the opportunity to invest at market inflection points.

Brookfield is actively investing in commercial real estate, seeing opportunities in current market conditions.

The company's culture emphasizes developing young talent and providing opportunities they wouldn't get elsewhere.

Bruce Flatt believes that leadership in 2024 should focus on building a strong company culture and providing opportunities for younger generations.

Transcripts

We're the backbone behind global business.

And when they need capital, we fund it.

It's one of the world's largest alternative investment companies.

Brookfield owns hydroelectric plants, cell phone towers, power lines, wind

farms, ports and even cities guidelines. Bruce Flatt has been at the helm for

more than two decades, overseeing more than $900 billion of assets under

management. The veteran chief executive is

considered a visionary investor with a golden touch.

But for him, it's all about patience and finding the right investments.

What you might think of is risky. To us, it's not risky because we've been

in this business for these businesses for a long period of time.

In this episode of Leaders with LaCour, I speak to Bruce Flatt about the secrets

of his success, the outlook for commercial real estate and his own

future. Bruce Flett, thank you so much for

coming on Leaders. How are you?

I'm great. So I'm speaking to you.

Brookfield has gone from strength to strength.

If I was a martian meeting you for the first time.

How would you describe your company? We invest in buy and own the backbone of

global economy. When the water gets delivered to your

house, the road you drive on the pipeline that brings different things to

your community. The telecom towers that transmit your

phone. The data center.

The real estate that you live in. It's what we own and build.

So it's it's really what drives the economy.

And you don't often see your name become good or a bad thing.

You know, it's just because we're behind the scenes, but it's big with

$1,000,000,000,000 of assets almost. We're behind a lot of the things of the

global economy. So being low keyed, do you think it

gives you strength? We just try to be quiet and do our

thing. And some sometimes it helps and

sometimes it doesn't. But I'd say on balance, it's been good

for us. You've been in charge for 22 years.

I feel Brookfield seems like a long time when you say it that way.

But two decades over two decades. What was the most interesting transit?

I mean, you've grown the business by so much.

What was the most difficult question about how to grow it?

The amazing thing about this business is you learning every day and the world is

changing all the time. But if I went back 22 years or 32 years,

what we invested in then and now are very different.

Data centers didn't exist then. Telecom towers were owned by all the

phone companies. So these are things the business evolves

and the backbone evolves of the economy. So it's a really interesting business to

be in because you're always learning. But it's a difficult business because

you don't want to be Kodak, right? You don't want to invest in something

that goes nowhere. Yeah.

Look, we're always trying to understand where is the future going and how do we

invest with that. And often it's listening to your

counterparties, your clients, your partners,

and hearing what they're saying and what they want to do.

And we're going with them. And and that's really where we're the

backbone behind global business. And when they need capital,

we fund it. And I think your North Star, as it were,

is three days, right?

Yeah. Look, I'd say over time, we're always

trying to figure out what are the things and what are the themes.

They're going to drive the world. And, and today, the digitalization of

everything, the decarbonization of everything and the globalization of

everything are three, I'd say mega trends, themes that are going to be very

dominant in investing for the next not not the next two or three years, the

next 20 to 30 years. Geopolitics is, I guess, taking a turn

for the worse. How do you again, keep that trajectory

and saying, look, we will digitize interest rates are also all over the

place, so how do you stay the course, as it were?

You know, Francine, what we try to do is find good countries,

go there and stay there, invest in these things.

And whether governments come or go where interest rates go up a little bit or

down a little bit aren't really relevant to these themes

in the long term. You need to make sure you have

liquidity, you can fund yourself and you run good businesses and that's more

important than those general trends. So we're trying we're investing for ten,

20, 30, 40, 50 years. So out of the three DS, is

digitalization the hardest because of AI?

Because we don't really know where we'll end up?

Look, I'd say digitalization was happening because of cloud computing

and super tech companies getting into cloud computing and now the whole thing

going on. The amount of things that go to your

iPad every day today and it's crazy. It's amazing what's happened in the past

20 years. But now with AI, it's just it's almost

exponentially taking it up. And and so that's just another tailwind

behind this whole sector. It was very strong before that.

And for the last five, seven, ten years we had been pushing into it.

But the AI, what's going on with AI is even more dramatic.

The digitalization of everything is being driven by data centers and just

the connectivity of everything. But remember, everyone in the world has

in some way committed to let's have less carbon.

Yeah, and it's just transitioning the economy.

It's not it's not good or bad or green or black.

It's just let's just transition the economy.

To have less carbon. So we're funding that.

And the leaders in that today are the technology companies.

So a lot of this is being driven by the technology companies to go green.

So we're one of the largest builders of solar and wind and now batteries to be

able to get carbon out of the system. And.

Whereas years ago, we sell power to the grid.

Today it's more our power is mostly sold to global corporates.

And again, this is you have to take a bet on what kind of technology or do you

have to take a bet on just the infrastructure that supports it.

We were doing wind 15, 18, 20 years ago. We were doing solar ten years ago, but

very small. And only when the cost curves made solar

and wind at the point where they were. They're the most economic thing way to

generate electricity. And at the point of that, you know, if

they're the most economical way to do it and they have less carbon, they're going

to win. And that that's why we're decarbonizing

today, because in most countries this is the lowest cost energy.

But geopolitics must get in the way, right?

Politicians have to be re-elected. They're pro climate change against

climate change. How do you how do you not waver?

Remember? It just just to me, the important point.

In most countries, the lowest cost energy today for electricity is solar or

wind. You don't need subsidies.

And when you did need subsidies, politics mattered.

Today, you don't do globalization. So this is what bringing back onshore.

All it is is, I think in Covid, I'd say it's always

been happening. And in Covid people just learned we

should have production capacity located in many things located where you use

them. So increasingly, for example, batteries

for cars, for example, they're being used in America and therefore there are

battery plants getting built in America, and there's an enormous need for capital

to fund battery plants. There's enormous need for

semiconductors, an enormous need for manufacturing capacity in various

locations around the world. And it's just natural that everyone

doesn't want to have all of their manufacturing capacity in one country or

place. Let's diversify.

So that's just a big theme, which means it's just a lot of capital.

But you make it sound very easy. But actually this has got you like more

than 900 billion in assets under management.

You know, it's it's not easy. But if you have operating people and you

keep repeatable do repeatable things around the world, it gets easier, it

gets simpler. It's not easy, but it's simpler.

And and I guess that's that's why we're in business, right?

It it's we've been doing this a long time

and everything's not the same, but it's there are, there are a lot of things

that rhyme and therefore you can learn and continue to grow over time.

Coming up, Bruce flat on plans to invest in the financial backbone of the global

economy. We think that's the next

the next phase of infrastructure investing.

Infrastructure has been a bright spot for Brookfield.

The company is gathering cash for a new fund targeting buyout opportunities in

the Middle East and it plans to start a pool that invests in financial

infrastructure such as payment systems as demand grows.

I continue the conversation with Bruce Flatt.

Did you know in 2002 that you wanted to be at 900 billion asset under management

or a trillion? We're just trying to make money for our

clients in a thoughtful way, and we've done that for a long period of time.

And the reason why we are at the scale we are is because we've been thoughtful

with their money and we've earned them a good return and we've not taken a lot of

risk. And if you can do that over long periods

of time, you can compound their wealth, investment, wealth

to very large sums of money. And that's that's what's important for

these sovereign institutional pension investors, because they have very long

durations. They need these type of assets to earn

them returns over the longer term. You've also gone to credit.

How much are you expecting that to grow? Look, what's what's happened with

regulations in the banking system is they've just

it's pushed out credit off the balance sheets of the banks.

And the right place where that is being funded from is institutional investors.

And therefore investors like ourselves are continuing to grow our businesses

where we're funding these type of products.

But it's not our our business is not in competition with the banks.

It's actually in partnership with banks. And as a result of that, I'd say it's

facilitating the growth of the global financial markets as opposed to

something that often people talk about it, that we're at the wrong time in the

cycle or whatever it is. This is going to be growing and

happening for a long period of time. So how big do you expect it's going to

get? Big, Because remember, this is this is

where most of the capital is in the world is in sovereign institutional

funds. These and pensions, these funds are used

to be 20 and 30 billion. Today they're 300 billion, 500 billion,

a trillion, trillion and a half dollars. These are large, large sums of money.

They need to put it to work. And

therefore it's going to continue to grow for a long period of time.

And you focus when you look at regions, is it mainly the GCC countries we invest

for people in the for the long term, try to earn them good returns by taking

moderate risk. And if we can do that, it's all around

the world for you. What you want to do in your own

portfolio is take moderate risk and earn a good return.

But what's moderate risk? So again, again, you make it sound easy,

but actually this is a no How so do you look into you know, you're also quite

acquisitive. Yeah.

Look, I would say we in the businesses that we are in, we have more information

than most people about what we do. Therefore, what you might think of is

risky to us. It's not risky because we've been in

this business for these businesses for a long period of time.

We have the information of everything we know.

We know what's getting shipped across the ocean in our containers.

We know what's getting booked into the ports in different countries.

We know what what's traveling on the roads.

We know what the who how many people are going into a shopping mall.

We know all of those things. And that just informs us.

So we have, I'd say, better information to base our decisions than most people.

And but we're always, you know, we're trying

to take so we're trying to lower the risks by doing that.

Of course, investing investing is tough. It's not easy.

And therefore, you're always taking some form of risk.

How do you choose what company to buy? You know, thoughtful analysis about

what's in the business, proper pricing when things are up a lot, just wait.

And most people invest at the wrong time because they get excited about what the

markets are telling them about a business

and therefore where that's usually when we're not investing

and just wait for the time when it'll be a little better to invest.

Do you accept I mean, I think you've spoken in the past about, you know,

possible big acquisition that would be transformational for Brookfield.

You know, I would say we're always in the we're always looking for additions

to the business. In 2018, we brought Oaktree into our

fold and we have a partnership with the management there that's been

transformative to our credit business. And we're always looking for things like

that to continue to build the business and just grow over time.

And but if not, we'll just we just keep plugging away every day.

So this is so it's more partnerships than outright acquisitions like Altera

is. I mean, this is a different kind of

carbon fund. Our

transition business, we started we, we split off from our main infrastructure

business, a four and a half, four or five years ago,

we raised a large first time fund. We just did a

first close of our second fund for. $10 billion.

And then we we started an emerging markets business.

So I'd say that's just a split, right? This is just all we're trying to do is

we we informed ourself about transition. We built a team over a long period of

time. Now, are some people said to us, can you

solve emerging markets as opposed to just developed markets?

We didn't feel it appropriate to put the two in the same fund.

So we're creating another fund to do that.

And some of our clients will come along with us and we're quite excited about

it. Is that a template for for possible

future kind of spinoffs? You know, we we have in our private

equity business, we have a buyout sponsor business,

but we're also doing we're just in the midst of creating a strategy for the

Middle East, which will be a separate pool of money.

We're creating a strategy for financial infrastructure because we think that's

the next the next phase of infrastructure

investing is in the financial backbone of the global economy.

And a lot of the world has been pushing towards financial infrastructure, and

it's not appropriate for our infrastructure fund.

But so we're creating a new pool of money to do that.

And so we we're there's a fine line between to having too many things and

making sure your clients who want to be invested with you in that type of area

have have a pool to be able to do it with us.

When you look at infrastructure, I mean, there's consolidation.

It was really the I guess the name for the last six months is does that make

your job easier or tougher? Look, we we we were the maybe one I'm

going to say one of the pioneers of infrastructure in the original.

You want us in? Well, going into institutional clients,

we were the original because we were in industrial businesses ourselves.

And how we got into the infrastructure business is we decided we didn't like

the up and down of many of the industrial businesses we had in mining

businesses, but we really liked the backbone infrastructure that was in

these businesses. And the 20 years ago we started doing it

for institutional clients. At that time, nobody would listen to us

and nobody would invest with us. So it's quite

it's quite it's great that that this has become mainstream today.

The good news, I'd say we're still a leader in it.

We have very large funds, in fact, the largest in the world, and therefore

we just continue to try to differentiate our

investment strategies and with size, scale, operating people and the ability

just to grow in the places we are. So I think we're

just two others getting stronger. Help us.

Probably not, but it doesn't really bother us.

And I think there's a place for us to continue to grow in the business.

Coming up, why Bruce Flatt has faith in the future of commercial real estate.

There's opportunity coming and if you know what you're doing, you can pick the

right assets. There's a great opportunity here.

From the United States to Europe, plunging office valuations are spooking

investors, raising fears about a broader contagion.

As one of the world's biggest owners of commercial real estate, Brookfield is at

the center of a global industry shakeout.

For the chief executive, Bruce Flatt, who made his name in real estate, sees

opportunities where others see risks. We continue the conversation.

Commercial real estate. So a lot of people say, look, this is

not this is not the right time. We're going to see a shake out in

commercial real estate. There are opportunities that you see.

I think, look, the next the next story is that integrates coming down.

Fundamentals are pretty good in a lot of commercial real estate.

Of course, there are some there's a tale of some investors that had properties

that for this environment the fundamentals either don't support it or

the financing they have can't be supported and therefore those have to

get dealt with. So that's a tale that's getting dealt

with within the financial system. Fundamentals are actually getting

better. Interest rates are coming down, which

means the values are going to improve. But that tail, there's opportunity

coming. And if you know what you're doing, you

can pick the right assets. There's a great opportunity here.

And we've we've done this for a long period of time and we've seen these

cycles before. Real estate's cyclical and you can make

a lot of money when you pick the inflection point of markets.

And I remember it in the early nineties, I remember it in

early 2000, so I remembered it in 2009, ten, 11, 12.

There are points when when there's an inflection point and

we're at one of those inflection points. So you're buying we are buying our

opportunistic fund. We just bought some we foreclosed on

some loans for multifamily in the U.S. recently.

We're very excited about that and we continue to look at a bunch of things.

Do you see anything in Europe? Absolutely.

I think there will be, you know, the biggest most liquid markets are in the

United States. That doesn't mean, therefore, because of

the most liquid, you always find the most opportunities, but you're up,

there's less capital and therefore there will be there will be opportunities here

as well. But how do you make a difference between

the ones that you know will get better and the ones that actually you just you

should forget? You know, I would just say it.

It depends on the types of real estate.

You just need quality wins always. It always has.

It always will. What you spend most of your time

thinking about. You know, I personally, I spend my time

sometimes helping our teams with business.

Sometime I'd say a third that a third with clients, helping them understand

what we're doing, where we're going. And a third is just internal people

running the organization, I'll call it. And and with that, we spend an enormous

amount of time building our people and transitioning

our people within all of our businesses. And it's just a it's not something that

happens once sapping all the time in our whole goal is our culture of our place

is bring people up that are very young, give them opportunities that they'd

never get anywhere else. Grow them throughout the organization,

make sure they're entrepreneurial, hardworking, and and want to win.

And and if you have that, you have a great culture in a company.

And that's sort of what we spend all of our a huge amount of our time

trying to build within the organization, bring them up to test them or just to

make them learn, look, we can bring them up to take on roles and

eventually, eventually I will I will become an executive chairman

and I'll still be around, but somebody else, will you ever retire?

Well, you know, I will. I will become an executive chairman at

some point in time. And what that means is I'm here to help

mentor young people, help with business development, look after clients that

that can be helpful to the overall organization.

But at some point in time, it's this is a hard business.

We're in 30 countries. We have lots of people.

It's better to have younger people grow the business.

I took over 30 in my 30 early thirties and

and I probably slower today than I was then.

Not that I've slowed down, but I'm slower today and at some point in time

it's the right thing just to bring to give the people those roles.

And so we're continually evolving the organization in that way.

But are you going anywhere anytime soon? No.

Is this the biggest mistake actually, for politicians and chief executives?

Is is staying on for too long or is it is leadership in 2024 different to what

it was in early 2000? You know, I think it all depends on the

organization. Some organizations fit one way, some fit

another. I'm not suggesting our culture.

Here is what works for everybody else. But we have a culture where

our elders stay around for long periods of time to help

and our young people get opportunities which they wouldn't otherwise get if the

elders stayed in place in a full time role.

And that's what we do. But maybe it doesn't work for everyone,

and that's okay. Maurice Black, thank you so much for

joining us today.