What is Wisdom? Roger Walsh
Summary
TLDRIn this interview, Roger Walsh, a psychiatrist and scholar, shares his journey from a conventional medical background to exploring the depths of the mind and spirituality. He discusses the transformative power of psychotherapy and contemplative practices, emphasizing the importance of wisdom, which he defines as deep insight into oneself and life's existential issues, coupled with practical skill. Walsh also touches on the current cultural shifts, including gender dynamics and the challenges of fostering community, offering insights into personal and collective growth.
Takeaways
- π Roger Walsh's journey began in Australia and continued in the United States, where he transitioned from a conventional medical background to exploring psychiatry and psychotherapy.
- π Walsh was profoundly impacted by his own experiences in psychotherapy, leading him to recognize the vast inner universe within each individual that often goes unexplored.
- π§ββοΈ His experiences in California exposed him to a variety of spiritual and contemplative practices, which he found to be unexpectedly beneficial despite his initial skepticism.
- π Walsh's academic pursuits led him to study and integrate both traditional academic disciplines and contemplative practices, focusing on human potential and virtues like love and wisdom.
- ποΈ He spent time in a monastery in Asia, practicing intensive meditation, which furthered his understanding of contemplative practices and their role in personal development.
- π€ Walsh discusses the evolution of academic discussions around spirituality and contemplative practices, noting a growing acceptance and integration within certain fields like psychology.
- π± He emphasizes the importance of community and relationships in personal growth, suggesting that surrounding oneself with wise and virtuous individuals can inspire and support one's own development.
- π Walsh defines wisdom as a combination of deep insight and understanding of oneself and life's existential issues, coupled with the practical skill to respond effectively and benevolently to these issues.
- π± He suggests that to cultivate wisdom, one should explore various practices and traditions, starting with those that resonate personally, and emphasizes the importance of community and nature in this process.
- π Walsh touches on the current social and cultural challenges, including the evolving relationship between men and women, and the need for a developmental perspective to navigate these changes.
Q & A
What was Roger Walsh's initial academic background before his exposure to psychiatry and psychotherapy?
-Roger Walsh initially had a very conventional medical scientific background with an MD PhD, and he thought he would end up in a neuroscience lab.
How did Roger Walsh's perspective on spirituality evolve during his time in California?
-In California, Roger Walsh was influenced by the variety of practices and traditions available. Initially skeptical, he eventually recognized the value of practices like meditation, yoga, and chanting, leading him to explore religious and spiritual traditions more deeply.
What significant realization did Roger Walsh have about his own life during his therapy sessions with Jim Dugan?
-Roger Walsh realized that he had been living his life superficially, only from 'here up', and had been unaware of the vast and mysterious inner universe within himself, which he had never explored before.
What was the turning point for Roger Walsh in understanding the value of contemplative practices?
-The turning point for Roger Walsh was a moment of insight when he recognized that behind conventional religious institutions were contemplative practices that trained the mind to cultivate the same qualities and capacities as the great founders, saints, and sages.
Why did Roger Walsh decide to take a two-year leave of absence after getting tenure?
-After getting tenure, Roger Walsh took a two-year leave of absence to immerse himself in a monastery in Asia for intensive meditation practice, seeking to merge the worlds of academia, psychiatry, and contemplative practices.
What is the common division of wisdom according to Roger Walsh's understanding of Western and some Asian traditions?
-According to Roger Walsh, there is a common division of wisdom into two types: insight, which is an intuitive direct seeing and understanding, and practical know-how, which involves skill in responding effectively and benevolently to life's existential issues.
How does Roger Walsh define wisdom in the context of both self-understanding and practical skill?
-Roger Walsh defines wisdom as deep insight and understanding of oneself and the central existential issues of life, coupled with practical skill in responding to these issues effectively and benevolently.
What role does benevolence play in the concept of wisdom as described by Roger Walsh?
-Benevolence is intimately linked with wisdom, as per Roger Walsh. He suggests that wisdom confers a profound understanding of virtues, and from the perspective of the wise, virtues are the ways of living that make sense, reflecting a deep recognition of one's transpersonal nature and that of others.
What does Roger Walsh suggest as a starting point for someone looking to tap into their potential and gain more wisdom?
-Roger Walsh suggests that individuals should seek relationships with mentors and teachers who can support their growth, recognize the potentials available to them, and look for practices they feel drawn to, such as meditation, yoga, or community service.
How does Roger Walsh view the current state of human development in terms of maturity?
-Roger Walsh believes that most people are operating way below their potential, suggesting that what we call normality is a form of collective developmental arrest, and that there is a need for fostering psychological maturation and deep insight for wisdom.
What is Roger Walsh's perspective on the current challenges in the relationship between men and women in society?
-Roger Walsh sees the current challenges as a reflection of larger social and global changes, with roles and power structures being redefined. He suggests holding a developmental and evolutionary perspective, recognizing the benefits and new problems that arise, and focusing on fair and careful treatment in relationships.
Outlines
π Personal Journey and Discovery of Inner Depths
Roger Walsh shares his personal journey from a conventional medical scientific background to a deep exploration of psychiatry and psychotherapy. He discusses his transformative experiences in California, which led him to realize the vastness of the inner universe, a realm he was previously unaware of. His encounter with Jim Dugan, a master humanistic and existential therapist, profoundly influenced him, prompting a shift in focus towards contemplative practices and spiritual traditions. Walsh's narrative illustrates a transition from a materialistic worldview to one that values inner exploration and the integration of academic knowledge with spiritual wisdom.
π The Evolution of Spirituality in Academia
Walsh reflects on the changing attitudes towards spirituality in academic circles over the past few decades. He notes a growing acceptance of spiritual practices, particularly mindfulness and yoga, within psychology and academia. He discusses the role of 'gnostic intermediaries,' individuals who deeply immerse themselves in wisdom traditions and can communicate their insights to others. Walsh emphasizes the importance of translating ancient wisdom into contemporary language and concepts, especially in psychology, to make it more accessible and understandable in modern society.
π§ββοΈ Cultivating Wisdom and Virtues
The conversation delves into the concept of wisdom, which Walsh defines as a combination of deep insight and understanding of oneself and life's existential issues, along with practical skill in responding to these issues effectively and benevolently. He explains that wisdom is linked to virtues like benevolence and ethics, and that it confers a profound understanding of how to live meaningfully. Walsh suggests that wisdom is not just an individual pursuit but is also intimately connected to community and the collective good, emphasizing the importance of fostering wisdom for societal health and development.
π± Nurturing Personal and Collective Growth
Walsh offers advice on how individuals can begin to tap into their potential and cultivate wisdom. He suggests seeking relationships with mentors and like-minded individuals, recognizing one's potential for growth, and exploring various practices that resonate personally. He mentions the importance of community and nature in fostering growth, as well as the value of solitude and reflection. Walsh also discusses the process of spiritual development, encouraging an open-minded approach to exploring different practices and traditions to find what aligns with one's path.
π€ Collective Inquiry and the Healing Power of Community
The discussion turns to the importance of community in fostering individual and collective growth. Walsh highlights various approaches to communal inquiry, from silent reflection to active debate, emphasizing the shared search for truth and understanding. He suggests that the purpose of these communal practices should be heuristic, aimed at collective learning and growth rather than proving individual points. Walsh also touches on the current challenges in forming and maintaining community in the modern era, particularly with the rise of screen time and decreased interpersonal contact.
π₯ Navigating Gender Dynamics and Healthy Masculinity
Walsh addresses the complex issue of gender dynamics, particularly the relationship between men and women in contemporary society. He acknowledges the challenges and role confusion arising from societal changes and the dismantling of traditional gender roles. Walsh discusses the importance of viewing these changes through a developmental lens, recognizing both the benefits and the new problems they present. He also comments on the American Psychological Association's guidelines on working with men, suggesting that a healthy masculinity involves fostering well-being, wisdom, and capacities, and expressing these qualities skillfully and sensitively in relationships.
Mindmap
Keywords
π‘Psychiatry
π‘Fulbright scholarship
π‘Existential therapy
π‘Contemplative practices
π‘Wisdom
π‘Post-conventional development
π‘Mindfulness
π‘Gnostic intermediary
π‘Solitude
π‘Community
π‘Masculinity
Highlights
Roger Walsh shares his journey from a conventional medical scientific background to exploring psychiatry and psychotherapy.
Walsh's transformative experience with psychotherapy led to a deep exploration of the mind and inner experiences.
He discusses the profound impact of his therapy with Jim Dugan, a master humanistic existential therapist.
Walsh's realization of the vast inner universe within each individual, previously unknown to him.
The cultural tendency to be out of touch with one's inner depths and the potential within.
Walsh's exploration of multiple practices and traditions, leading to a gravitation towards religious and spiritual paths.
The moment of insight connecting contemplative practices to the development of wisdom and altered states of consciousness.
Walsh's decision to take a leave of absence to practice intensive meditation in Asia after achieving tenure.
The importance of integrating traditional academic disciplines with contemplative practices to explore human potential.
The historical availability of the world's traditions for cross-cultural exploration of human possibilities.
Walsh's perspective on the evolving acceptance of spirituality in academic discussions.
The role of 'gnostic intermediary' in translating wisdom traditions into contemporary language and concepts.
Defining wisdom as deep insight and understanding of oneself and life's existential issues, coupled with practical skill.
The intrinsic link between wisdom and benevolence, with wisdom conferring a profound understanding of virtues.
Walsh's view on the current state of human development, suggesting we are in a collective adolescence.
The necessity for fostering psychological maturation and wisdom to address social and global challenges.
Recommendations for individuals to begin tapping into their potential and gaining wisdom, including seeking mentors and engaging in practices.
The importance of community and the various ways people can come together for collective inquiry and growth.
Walsh's thoughts on the current challenges in the relationship between men and women, and the need for a developmental perspective.
The role of social movements in creating both benefits and new challenges in gender relations.
Walsh's perspective on the American Psychological Association's guidelines on working with men and what constitutes healthy masculinity.
The importance of psychological health and well-being, including maturity, insight, self-acceptance, and the capacity for feedback.
Transcripts
[Music]
Roger Walsh thank you very much for
coming on the channel thank you so I'd
love to hear a little bit about your
background I've covered a lot of
different areas in my time I was very
fortunate grow up in Australia he came
over to the United States on a Fulbright
scholarship I was supposed to go back
after a year or so but rapidly fell in
love with California and wasn't going
anywhere and had the good fortune going
to stand for doing a my psychiatry
training there and that was really an
eye-opener I had come from a very
conventional medical scientific
background an MD PhD I thought I would
end up back in neuroscience lab but
being in Skytree training and being
around people who were exploring the
mind and doing our own having their own
psychotherapy and of course being in
California everything changed in ways I
could never predicted and as almost an
ethical imperative since I was doing
psychotherapy on people I thought I had
an obligation to try some myself I
didn't really expect much but boy was I
wrong I had the very good fortune of
being in therapy with a man by name of
Jim Dugan taller master humanistic
existential therapist and he was
exquisitely sensitive and able to help
me get in touch with my own experience
in a way I'd never been able to do
before and I realized I've been living
my life from here up and I came to
realize there wasn't in the universe as
vast and mysterious as the outer which I
had had no idea even existed and I was
just blown away I felt like I'd live my
entire life on the top six inches of a
wave on top of a no inner ocean and I
didn't even know existed and I was
stunned I mean how could I be so out of
touch so unaware of inner experience and
yet as I looked around at the culture
seemed like that was the way the culture
was almost no one was really in touch
with their inner depths or aware of the
potentials there
to us so then I started exploring
multiple practices and traditions in
California which there are many so you
name what I did it sta TM I mean we
could run through a long list eventually
I found myself gravitating towards
religious and spiritual traditions and I
had no idea why because I thought
religion was the opiate of the masses
and yet I tried some meditation it
seemed helpful I tried some yoga it
seemed helpful I chanted all seemed
helpful and I couldn't understand why
why did these relics of primitive
thinking seem to be beneficial and it
took a couple of years of really
wrestling with it but there's literally
one moment as I was walking across the
living room floor when I it hit me that
behind the conventional institutions
with their rituals and dogma and much
less well-known set of contemplative
practices for training the mind to
cultivate the same qualities and
capacities that the great founders and
saints and sages had realized and that
they also were accompanied by
contemporary philosophies and
psychologies which explained how the
world looked from those more develop
perspectives and how how the mind
functioned normally but also in very
different altered states of
consciousness and at post conventional
developmental stages so this was just an
eye open for me and the day after I got
tenure I applied for two years leave of
absence to disappear into a monastery in
Asia and in intensive meditation
practice and have been very fortunate of
being able to merge the worlds of both
traditional academia psychiatry
psychology with an exploration of
contemplative practices human
possibilities potentials virtues such as
well love and wisdom and to see how
though if we can make sense of them
and also look across traditions you know
this is the first time in history we've
had all the world's traditions available
to us to look for what are the common
practices one of the common ideas and
themes and possibilities they suggest
about what a human being can be
fascinating I'm curious because you've
really seen I imagine a lot of changes
over that time and the way people even
think about these traditions and these
kind of techniques of wisdom for one of
a better word do you think it's easier
now to bring that into the academic
discussion or is it still a challenge or
how do you find it well I think both you
could get excommunicated for saying the
word spirituality a couple of maybe
three decades ago now it's if not
acceptable in all circles at least it's
an acceptable thing in some areas such
as psychology and in a growing number of
academics now themselves although still
small minority involved in contemplative
practices mindfulness particularly yoga
of course so it's getting a little
easier and it's also a little easier as
much as we're increasingly able to
reframe and reconceptualize some of the
traditional spiritual tomes and make
sense of them in terms of contemporary
ideas around psychology mental function
etc I think a lot of you small but
growing number of people and I could
email functioning what Carl Jung called
a gnostic intermediary and he defined a
gnostic in a metre is someone who
immersed themselves in a wisdom
tradition so deeply that they were able
to communicate out of their direct
experience to other people and as far as
I can see in Gnostic intermediary then
has three goes through three processes
first they immerse themselves in the
tradition to the point that they can
really have it as a deep part of their
own experience and understand it then
they have to learn the conceptual frame
consistent of the people they want to
communicate to and then they thought
they have to translate so as to make the
ideas from the wisdom traditional
religious tradition comprehensible in
terms of the other person's framework
and I think a growing number of us are
basically trying to do that reframe what
are in some ways archaic terms and
concepts into conventional language and
in concepts particularly psychology but
not only psychology I'd love to take one
of those concepts or words wisdom
because I know you're that's something
you're looking at right now and of
course we're called rebel wisdom so it's
it's close to our hearts to you what is
wisdom mean well I've wrestled for a
long time trying to come up with a
definition and let me just give a little
context in both in both West Western in
the Western tradition and in some Asian
traditions for example as in Buddhism
there's a common division between two
types of wisdom one is inside an
understanding and the other is practical
know-how and so I think I define wisdom
as wisdom is deep insight and
understanding of oneself and the central
existential issues of life meaning
purpose Alumnus mortality suffering
death plus practical skill in responding
to these issues effectively and
benevolently well we can pause that out
a little if you'd like for example the
wisdom is deep insight and understanding
in sight both intuitive direct seeing
and understanding conceptual
understanding of both oneself and that
understanding can be at multiple levels
of course from just seeing what
particular habits I have and that's not
so smart to seeing some of the dynamics
of the mind to seeing very deeply into
the deeper nature of ourselves so called
transcendent wisdom when India would
called progerin your honor
that direct seeing into what can be
interpreted your consciousness being God
different names so those are the D
that's the deep insight and
understanding of where himself and then
also deep inside an understanding of the
central existential issues of life
issues that all of us have to face and
wrestle with simply because we're human
and come with a body which is going to
sicken an age and die and we are
challenged with how to relate to
skillfully as we can to others how to
deal with the inevitable issues that
life presents us with so those are the
those are existential issues they have
part of existence they're not just
circumstantial their existential they
come with being in a body so deep inside
and understanding both oneself from the
central existential issues of life plus
practical skill you'd be able to respond
effectively that is skilfully
effectively to handle situations and
benevolently because there's agreement
across multiple traditions that wisdom
is intimately linked with benevolence
it's not just if if a person is acting
out of mere self-interest that's not
enough benevolence altruism seems to be
inextricably linked with wisdom and in
fact wisdom confers a profound a radical
understanding of virtues because from
the perspective of the wise the virtues
are simply the ways of living that makes
sense
if a person who sees deeply into
themselves
recognizing recognizes their deep
transpersonal nature and recognizes it
in others of course they want to be
ethical that person deserves no less
than that of course they want to be
benevolent the person deserves no less
than that but we deserve no less than
that ourselves so that gives a whole
different understanding of virtues and
so when I think when a lot of people
look out the window they see or you know
lots of us here very tribal eyes very
chaotic political and cultural landscape
do you think there's any relationship
between wisdom and or maybe lack of
wisdom and that well sure I think
there's no question that most of us are
living way below our potential and when
you ask a group of people for example to
talk or perhaps if you asked your
audience where on the average is
humankind in its journey from infancy to
adolescence through maturity through old
age most people will say adolescence I
think that speaks to a intuitive insight
on the part of the majority of people
that we are not functioning at our best
that and it's becoming clearer and
clearer from both adult developmental
psychology which is a remarkably
important field which is I think one of
the most exciting discoveries of
psychology in the last few decades that
what we took to be normality is not the
sealing of human possibilities there are
stages of development which people have
now beginning to map out through post
conventional and even trans conventional
stages yet if yet though only a small
percentage of the people are operating
at those levels and who knows what
possibilities there are beyond that so
if most people are operating way below
their potential with as Abraham Maslow
with a great humanistic psychologist
said you know what we call normality is
really a form of form of collective
pathology and I would frame it is what
we call normality is a form of
collective developmental arrest and once
you see that then you can see that yeah
it's not surprising that we have so many
social and global problems not to
mention the fact of course that that
we're dealing with entirely new eras and
levels of complexity and innovation and
change and so forth we don't have
guidelines we're kind of thrown into
this and trying to make our way so we
have
desperate need for fostering
psychological maturation for fostering
deep insight and understanding wisdom
and others so as someone who's really
delved into many different traditions
I'm written very well about many of them
as well
where would you suggest someone begin if
they want to start tapping into their
potential more fully and kind of let's
say gaining more wisdom well I think
obviously it depends on the individual
and so it's a little hard to to make
general recommendations but we can cover
a variety of spectra possibilities first
of all you know I spent three years
writing this book essential spirituality
of some central practices and three
years studying the different traditions
and what they say about cultivating
different virtues and capacities
including wisdom and you know what
surprised me most was that every single
tradition said that for every single
virtue if you want to develop this
virtue on yourself hang out with people
who have it you know consciousness is
catchy
and the what of a theme that has been
recognized for millennia in these
traditions is that we're it we're like
tuning forks we resonate with one
another and when they're around wise on
more altruistic more ethical people we
hold in that direction ourselves you
know parents know this they want the
kids to hang out with right kids I mean
this is not revolutionary except we
don't apply it to ourselves so first
thing relationships look for people who
can be there can be mentors and teachers
and friends who can support us in our in
our learning and growth second recognize
that there are further potentials and
possibilities available to us and that
in itself is inspiring third look for a
particular kind of practice you feel
drawn to we are blessed in the West at
this time with an unprecedented
opportunity for a enormous variety of
practices we can do so what is it that
appeals to you
are you drawn to meditation to yoga to
using your work in the world as a form
of service are you drawn to exploring in
groups men's groups women's groups
psychotherapy groups whatever community
very very important nature every
tradition recommends nature is a source
of healing and inspiration and opening
to resonance with the larger world and
our role in a short time in nature
solitude periods of Solitude just having
the time to sit and and reflect and
reflecting with the aid of tools like
journaling taking refusing a journal as
a way of reflect reflecting so those are
some of the possibilities there are more
but there there are lots and I think
well each of us has to feel me do what
draws us and it may be appropriate just
say a little bit about the the
development that people go through as
they begin exploring growth practices
because initially it may be totally
appropriate to do a to do adopt a
smorgasbord approach you know try a
little this Tuesday I'll try that a
Sunday maybe our church and that's fine
let's see what feels good into some
stage you may feel drawn and may be
perfectly appropriate to dive very
deeply into one practice or one
tradition and that can be very valuable
to focus to really immerse oneself and
to dedicate oneself to a particular
practice then again at some future stage
and they feel you getting a little stale
and would benefit from the exposure to
something else so so there's a rhythm to
psychological work and spiritual growth
then we CH have to tune in and trust our
own intuitive feelings about this I'm
curious as well about how how that might
look
on the more collective level when we
come together because this is something
we're very interested in a lot of our
events we you know we might bring up a
cultural issue but then encourage people
to enter into an inquiry around that and
maybe not from a kind of place of
telling a story or here's my opinion but
really a kind of an inquiry like a
talking meditation on this into thinking
okay what does this really bring up for
me and thinking a deeper level so I'm
very curious about what what some of the
traditions have said or your experience
in the best ways for us to come together
in that way what we used to do all the
time in church but we don't really do
anymore
yes and the significant research of
course showing that communities groups
interpersonal contact has gone down
dramatically since particularly some
screen time decreased so much so I think
this is one of the issues of our time
how how we can foster community and
particularly how we can foster
communities that that serve both our
individual and collective healing and
growth in various ways and I think I
know you're exploring various
possibilities and and I think a number
of people are I think you think this is
a kind of cutting edge work so again it
feels like know what particular approach
are we drawn to some people are drawn to
again to more contemplative inquiry
together kind of one extreme would be
the Quaker movement where there's a lot
of emphasis on silence listening and
then speaking from the spirit and when
called another ism at the other extremes
a more active inquiries dialogue even in
some traditions debate challenging
debate Tibetan Buddhism Judaism for
example they really go at it as a way of
trying to try to carve away faulty
presuppositions which much hard to see
in ourselves now this and and so even
that kind of very active debate if done
for the purpose and here's the crucial
thing what
the purpose of these things is the
purpose what was traditionally called
heuristic where I'm trying to prove my
point or is it more Socratic a shared
inquiry for truth which may probably
eludes us both but together perhaps we
get a little closer so one of the kind
of hot topics in our culture right now
is a relationship between men and women
I probably a relationship is old as time
and it certainly seems now you know
we've referred to it as it looks very
much like a dysfunctional relationship
in the culture and many people are
looking at you know how do we kind of
heal that relationship um as a
psychiatrist do you have any thoughts on
that I have a lot of thoughts but so do
a lot of other people yes it is a very
challenging time and it's reflective of
the larger social situation a larger
global situation of so much dramatic
change so much immersion immersion from
out of conventional roles and rules
where things were simply circumscribed
in pre-pro prescribed and prescribed and
so people had very clear directions
there wasn't such a demand for for
autonomy for finding one's own role and
at the same time we have the social
structures including power structures
being called into question broken up and
in some ways very healthy we have the
meat to move like people women now able
to speak out about things they didn't
feel safe speaking out before and that's
all to the good
at the same time they we have the
diversity movement so so there's there's
just an enormous amount going on and
everyone of course most people feeling
understandably somewhat confused for
example there's a role confusion what is
what is a skillful role as a man or a
woman in this culture or in some other
gender
division a lot of the appropriate and
skillful ways of relating I mean we're
still we trying to find work find those
out for ourselves and of course this is
all in some ways for the good if we see
it as a developmental or evolutionary
process in which we're coming out of a
rigid conventional structures and moving
into a at least hopefully a post
conventional more open more fluid nor
wider range of possibilities that's very
good but it does lead through a period
of disorientation so holding that
developmental and evolutionary
perspective I think is helpful there
also some problems you know social
movements inevitably go to extremes and
have counter reactions and backlashes
you know philosopher Hegel certainly had
it right but these these each thesis
leads to its antithesis and and another
way of putting it each each for as the
philosopher Hamas said there's the
dialectical progress every new
developmental phase a revolutionary
faced solve some problems but it opens
new ones so we're seeing benefits but
we're also seeing the opening of new
problems and to list some of them you
know there's a there's now a
hypersensitivity among men and women
about what can what particularly men
what can I say how can I relate can I be
this close can I touch I mean just you
know may be healthy but also very very
difficult and problem problematic
there's also you know some misuse of
data for example the in this country you
know is commonly thrown around as an
accusation against
quotes patriarchy and women still own
their own 85 cents on the dollar for the
man well yes but when you look more
closely for equal jobs and equal hours
it's
eight cents on the dollar and once that
there was 103 so we so the assumption
that this is due to patriarchal bias may
not hold it may be certainly one problem
is the lack of adequate childcare in
this country which is visible and
penalizes women enormous Lee so one
problem that comes up is an assumption
if there's any inequality that it's a
reflection of reflection of bias and
actually if we look at things in the
lodge in a more systemic way and then
there may be some bias but there are
other factors as well that thought of it
comes down to how do we treat each other
as fairly and honestly and carefully as
we possibly can it's not going challenge
roles and part of the so recently the
American Psychological Association
released their guidelines on for working
with men and it created quite a storm
and I'm curious about your perspective
on that and also what what do you a
healthy masculinity looks like well
that's a great question what does a
healthy masculinity masculinity looked
like well I think it looks I'm in my
mind I'm immediately trying to
differentiate how does that as the
masculine side differentiate or add to
the idea of psychological health and how
does it house the flavor so I suspect
it's you know how does the answer is
what is psychological health which is
something we don't have clear ideas
about you know psychology psychiatry
know a lot about pathology they don't
all have much about psychological health
and well-being which is why it's such a
fascinating area but I think certainly
we can say that psychological health and
well-being consists of several things
they comprise a maturity so now that we
know about post conventional
developmental stages you know clearly
psychological health involves which
during through at least early post
conventional stages secondly it involves
insight self inside and understanding of
one of the central elements of wisdom so
that's clearly core third it involves
sulphur deep self acceptance of
recognition of our humanity in evitable
failures and foibles inevitable neuroses
so Carl Jung said that self acceptance
was the acid test of one's humanity so
clearly that clear it involves they kept
at a willingness and capacity for
accepting feedback which is crucial for
any relation your relationship the
willingness to accept hopefully helpful
criticism to and to look at one
shortcomings and failings so there we
could go on and I think there a hole we
could track a variety of capacities and
virtues and say that a healthy person
embodies these and then a healthy
masculinity again it will vary from
between you from individual to
individual and so a healthy masculinity
I think will involve fostering one's own
fostering one's well-being and wisdom
and capacities as fully as possible and
feeling into how most sensitively and
appropriately and skillfully and
joyfully to express those in
relationship with everyone but you will
[Music]
[Music]
rebel wisdom is a new sense making
platform bringing together the most
rebellious and inspiring thinkers from
around the world if you're enjoying our
content then you can help us make more
by becoming a subscriber which will give
you access to a load of exclusive films
also you can then join our group zoom
calls to discuss the ideas in the films
and you can send us ideas for questions
for upcoming interviews we're also
looking for talented people to help us
out with editing graphics music that
kind of thing and if you're a regular
viewer you'll know we talk a lot about
the value of embodying or actually
living out the ideas that we talk about
so that's why we run regular events in
London check out the links on the
website for more and hope to see you
soon
you
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