Great Lives Robinson Crusoe & Daniel Defoe

Summary

In this episode, Lucy Irvin and Martin Popplewell share their experiences of living on a desert island, drawing parallels with Daniel Defoe's 'Robinson Crusoe.' Lucy, a former Inland Revenue clerk, spent a year on an island between New Guinea and Australia, while Martin was inspired by 'The Blue Lagoon' to live the castaway life. They discuss the appeal of island living, the evolution of the castaway myth, and the significance of Defoe's work. The conversation touches on themes of loneliness, self-sufficiency, and the human desire for simplicity and control over one's environment.

Takeaways

• 📚 The script discusses the classic novel 'Robinson Crusoe' by Daniel Defoe, which turns 300 years old this year.
• 🏝️ The conversation explores the idea of 'Robinson Crusoe' being a real person and compares it to the experiences of the guests, Lucy Irvin and Martin Popplewell, who have lived on desert islands.
• 👨‍💻 Lucy Irvin, a writer who has authored books like 'Castaway', 'Run Away', and 'Far Away', shares her experience of living in a caravan in rural Bulgaria and her time on an island between New Guinea and Australia.
• 🎬 Martin Popplewell was inspired by the film 'The Blue Lagoon' to live on a desert island, which he did, experiencing the reality of island life.
• 📖 The script highlights the detailed and adventurous early life of Robinson Crusoe before his well-known island stay, including being a slave in Morocco and a plantation owner in Brazil.
• 🕵️‍♂️ Daniel Defoe's own life was full of adventure, including being a political pamphleteer, a trader, a spy, and experiencing significant historical events like the Great Fire of London and the Plague.
• 🏝️ The myth of the desert island as a place of simplicity and escape from the complexities of modern life is discussed, and how it has evolved in popular culture.
• 🤔 The script ponders whether some individuals, like Crusoe or Selkirk, have a higher tolerance for solitude and the challenges of living independently.
• 👥 The relationship between Crusoe and his companion Friday is examined, considering the dynamics of power, culture, and possibly affection.
• 🏡 The ending of 'Robinson Crusoe' is summarized, with Crusoe returning to civilization and later embarking on further adventures in a sequel.

Q & A

What is the significance of the year 1632 in the context of the script?

The year 1632 is significant as it is the year when Robinson Crusoe, the protagonist of Daniel Defoe's novel 'The Life and Adventures of Robinson Crusoe,' was born.

Why did Lucy Irvine respond to the advertisement for a 'writer seeks a wife'?

Lucy Irvine responded to the advertisement because she was bored working for the Inland Revenue and was seeking a change, hoping for an adventure different from her routine life.

What misconceptions did Lucy Irvine have about the man who placed the advertisement?

Lucy Irvine assumed that she would be a sort of 'girl Friday' and that the man was an experienced adventurer based on his advertisement, not knowing that he had a background in writing sensational publicity materials and editing a men's magazine.

How has the image of a deserted island evolved in popular culture according to the script?

The image of a deserted island has evolved from representing limited horizons and simplicity to becoming a symbol of a different life, one that is seen as a form of escape from the complexities of modern society.

What is the connection between Daniel Defoe and Robinson Crusoe discussed in the script?

The script suggests that Daniel Defoe, the author, lives on through his creation, Robinson Crusoe, as authors often do with their characters, and that the character of Crusoe might have been inspired by various real-life stories, including that of Alexander Selkirk.

Why did Martin Popplewell decide to live on a desert island?

Martin Popplewell was captivated by the idea of living on a desert island after watching the film 'The Blue Lagoon' and decided to pursue that dream by advertising for a similar opportunity.

What is the significance of the number 28 in the context of Robinson Crusoe's story?

The number 28 is significant as it represents the number of years Robinson Crusoe was stranded on the island, which is also the time between the restoration of the monarchy and the Glorious Revolution, reflecting Daniel Defoe's own historical context.

How did Daniel Defoe's personal experiences influence his writing?

Daniel Defoe's personal experiences, including living through the Great Fire of London and the plague, being imprisoned for his political writings, and his various business ventures, greatly influenced his writing and the creation of his characters.

What is the role of Friday in Robinson Crusoe's life as depicted in the script?

Friday is depicted as a companion to Robinson Crusoe, initially seen as inferior and someone to be civilized by Crusoe, but also as a character that Crusoe becomes fond of and who helps him survive on the island.

How does the script address the change in perception of solitude and isolation over time?

The script addresses the change in perception by highlighting how the idea of being stranded on a desert island has morphed from a terrible fate to a desirable utopian concept, reflecting a cultural shift in attitudes towards solitude and self-sufficiency.

What are the personal reflections of Lucy Irvine and Martin Popplewell on their experiences living in isolation?

Both Lucy Irvine and Martin Popplewell reflect that their experiences living in isolation have been transformative and have shaped their lives since, with Lucy finding benefits in the simplicity and Martin learning about the essentials of survival.

Outlines

00:00

🏝️ Introduction to Robinson Crusoe and Lucy Irvin's Island Life

The segment begins with a tribute to the classic novel 'Robinson Crusoe', highlighting its 300th anniversary. The host, Matthew Parris, introduces the concept of imagining Crusoe's story as real and contrasts it with the life of Lucy Irvin, a modern-day castaway. Lucy shares her current living situation in a caravan in Bulgaria, surrounded by rescued horses. She recounts her decision to leave a mundane job at the Inland Revenue to answer an advert for a 'writer seeks a wife' on a tropical island, which led to her year-long stay on an island between New Guinea and Australia. The conversation touches on the universal appeal of the desert island narrative and its influence on popular culture.

05:01

📚 Exploring the Life and Adventures of Robinson Crusoe

This part delves into the early life of Robinson Crusoe, as depicted in the novel, and the adventurous spirit that led him away from a conventional life. The discussion includes Crusoe's time as a slave in Morocco, his escape, and subsequent success as a plantation owner in Brazil. The conversation then shifts to the real-life experiences of Martin Popplewell, who was inspired by the film 'The Blue Lagoon' to live on a desert island. Martin shares his journey of island living, the challenges faced, and the fulfillment of his dream, drawing parallels with Crusoe's experiences.

10:03

📖 Daniel Defoe: The Man Behind Robinson Crusoe

The focus shifts to Daniel Defoe, the author of 'Robinson Crusoe', exploring his early life, experiences, and the influence they had on his writing. Defoe's diverse life, including living through the Great Fire of London and the plague, his bankruptcy, and imprisonment, are discussed. The conversation also touches on Defoe's writing style, his other works like 'Moll Flanders' and 'A Journal of the Plague Year', and his ventures into racy literature. The segment speculates on the inspirations behind 'Robinson Crusoe', including the possible influence of real-life castaway Alexander Selkirk's story.

15:05

🌴 The Allure of Island Living and the Castaway Myth

This section discusses the enduring appeal of the castaway narrative and the desire for a simpler, more independent life. Lucy and Martin share their personal experiences of living on a desert island, the challenges of solitude, and the transformative effect it had on their lives. The conversation explores the evolution of the castaway myth from a tale of survival and despair to one of utopian aspiration. The participants reflect on the cultural significance of the island as a symbol of escape and the human need for simplicity and self-sufficiency.

20:06

👥 Crusoe's Relationship with Friday and the End of His Adventures

The discussion in this segment centers on the relationship between Robinson Crusoe and his companion Friday, exploring the dynamics of their interaction and the cultural context of the time. It delves into the themes of power, dependency, and the colonial mindset as reflected in the novel. The conversation also addresses the absence of certain elements, like coconuts, in the story despite their significance in island survival. The segment concludes with a brief overview of the ending of 'Robinson Crusoe', including the sequel and Crusoe's further adventures.

25:07

🏡 Reflecting on the Impact of Island Living

In the final part, Lucy and Martin reflect on the impact of their island experiences on their lives and perspectives. They discuss the challenges of reintegrating into society after living in isolation and the valuable lessons learned from their time on the islands. The conversation wraps up with a recognition of the recklessness and foolishness of their decisions to live as castaways, yet both express no regrets, as the experiences have profoundly shaped their lives and abilities to cope with adversity.

Keywords

💡Robinson Crusoe

Robinson Crusoe is a fictional character and the protagonist of the novel 'The Life and Adventures of Robinson Crusoe' by Daniel Defoe. The novel, which is 300 years old this year as mentioned in the script, tells the story of a man who survives a shipwreck and spends 28 years living alone on an uninhabited island. In the script, Robinson Crusoe's story is used as a springboard to discuss the enduring appeal of the 'desert island' narrative and the human desire for solitude and self-sufficiency.

💡Desert Island

A desert island is an isolated, uninhabited island often depicted in literature and film as a place of solitude and survival. In the context of the script, the desert island represents a place of escape from the complexities of modern life and a setting for self-discovery and resilience. The discussion revolves around the romanticized notion of living on such an island, drawing parallels with the experiences of the guests who have lived in isolation.

💡Daniel Defoe

Daniel Defoe was an English writer, journalist, and spy, who is best known for his novel 'Robinson Crusoe,' published in 1719. In the script, Defoe is discussed as the creator of Crusoe and as a figure who lived through significant historical events, such as the Great Plague and the Great Fire of London, which may have influenced his writing. His life and works are explored in relation to the themes of survival and the human condition.

💡Castaway

A castaway is a person who is left stranded on a deserted island or in a remote area, typically after a shipwreck. The term is central to the script's discussion of the Robinson Crusoe story and the experiences of the guests who have lived in isolation. The script explores the psychological and practical aspects of being a castaway, including the struggle for survival and the transformative effects of such an experience.

💡Island Imagery

Island imagery in literature and popular culture often symbolizes a place of escape, simplicity, and self-reliance. In the script, the island is discussed as a powerful image that resonates with a universal human desire for a different kind of life, away from the complications of society. The island represents a space where one can start anew and where the essentials of life are starkly revealed.

💡Solitude

Solitude refers to the state of being alone, often voluntarily, and is a central theme in the script. The experiences of the guests who have lived in isolation are used to explore the psychological impact of solitude, the potential for personal growth, and the contrast between the romanticized idea of being alone and the reality of the challenges it presents.

💡Survival

Survival in the context of the script relates to the ability to endure or continue to exist in challenging conditions, such as living on a deserted island. The discussion touches on the physical and psychological aspects of survival, including the need for resourcefulness, adaptability, and resilience, as exemplified by the experiences of the guests and the fictional character Robinson Crusoe.

💡Empire-Building

Empire-building is a metaphor for the expansion of one's influence or control, often associated with colonialism and the historical spread of empires. In the script, the idea of Robinson Crusoe as an empire-builder is discussed, reflecting on the character's attitude towards the island and his relationship with Friday, which can be seen as a reflection of colonial attitudes.

💡Friday

Friday is a character in 'Robinson Crusoe' who becomes Crusoe's companion after being rescued from cannibals. In the script, the relationship between Crusoe and Friday is analyzed, with discussions on power dynamics, cultural differences, and the complexities of their bond. Friday represents the 'other' in the narrative and raises questions about colonialism, slavery, and the human propensity to dominate or control.

💡Self-Sufficiency

Self-sufficiency is the ability to provide for one's own needs without external assistance. It is a key theme in the script, particularly in relation to the experiences of living on a desert island. The guests' stories highlight the importance of self-sufficiency in terms of food, shelter, and emotional resilience, and it is contrasted with the dependency and interconnectedness of modern life.

Highlights

The discussion explores the legacy of 'Robinson Crusoe', a novel celebrating its 300th anniversary this year.

Lucy Irvine shares her personal connection to desert islands, having lived on one for a year.

Martin Popplewell recounts his own desert island experience, inspired by the film 'The Blue Lagoon'.

The conversation delves into the historical context of Daniel Defoe's life and how it may have influenced 'Robinson Crusoe'.

Lucy Irvine discusses the appeal of the desert island as a symbol of simplicity and escape from complex modern life.

The panelists consider the evolution of the castaway narrative from a tale of survival to a utopian fantasy.

Martin Popplewell reflects on the psychological impact of living in isolation and the fear of returning to society.

Lucy Irvine expresses her discomfort with the relationship dynamics between Crusoe and Friday in the novel.

The discussion touches on the absence of certain elements, like coconuts, in 'Robinson Crusoe' despite their importance on desert islands.

The panelists compare their personal island experiences with the narrative of 'Robinson Crusoe' and its themes of self-sufficiency and mastery.

Lucy Irvine and Martin Popplewell share how their experiences have shaped their perspectives on life and their subsequent careers.

The conversation concludes with reflections on the enduring relevance and impact of 'Robinson Crusoe' on its readers.

Lucy and Martin discuss the challenges of reintegrating into society after living in isolation.

The panelists consider the role of the desert island narrative in literature and its influence on popular culture.

The discussion highlights the various adaptations and reinterpretations of 'Robinson Crusoe' over the years.

Transcripts

now an idea for his Matthew Parris with

the return of great lives and this week

it's a desert island special I was born

in the city of York in the year 1632 if

ever a man was born to be his own

destroyer than I was he against the good

advice of my father I went to see I

forgot the terror that possessed me in

my first voyage and voyaged into danger

and calamity again even after

deliverance from the Turks and landing

safe in the Brazil's where I made my

fortune my heart still yearned to wander

we all know that feeling my guests today

certainly do the clip you've just heard

comes from an astonishing tale the life

and adventures of Robinson Crusoe

written by himself that novel is 300

years old this year now let's play for a

while with the idea that Crusoe was real

because in truth we have two great lives

in this program Crusoe and his creator

Daniel Defoe who lives in a way through

his creation as authors often do

nominating him or rather them is the

heroine of her own Island adventure and

she is real the author of the books

castaway run away and far away

Lucy Irvin let's begin very simply Lucy

where are you speaking to us from today

these days I live in a caravan in rural

Bulgaria surrounded by rescued horses

but I've managed to get away from them

and I'm in the town of Stara Zagora in

south-central

boggy area has Bulgaria become a sort of

desert island for you very much so you

spent a year on - in an island between

New Guinea and Australia can you tell us

how and why you ended up there a short

version of that answer would be that I

was quite bored working for the Inland

Revenue as a clerk when I was 24 and I

went up one lunchtime to your local

library was skimming through adverts in

time out and I saw a rather riveting one

writer seeks a wife inverted commas for

a year on tropical island and I thought

well that'd be different of course

that's only the surface story wife in

inverted commas you assumed you were

going to be sleeping with him is that

right what I assumed was I'd be a sort

of girl Friday I wasn't particularly

emancipated in those days he was quite a

lot older 26 years older than me and a

writer and he'd already lived on other

islands including the one that they say

Alexander Selkirk lived on but she never

actually did and he sounded

experienced as though he knew what he

was talking about I didn't of course

know in those days that what he'd

written was sort of publicity things

Daniel Defoe with racy titles and that

when types public in brown paper

packages and that also he edited a man's

magazine a gentlemen's magazine called

Mayfair I assumed I made assumptions

about him that were incorrect and she

probably made assumptions about me that

we equally incorrect she works with

Inland Revenue so she must be terribly

straight-laced and have a bank account

and I wasn't really very straight-laced

and I'd done all sorts of curious things

before that the round island with a

single palm tree has become a staple of

cartoonists was Daniel Defoe do you

think tapping into an almost universal

human hankering or was it his book the

life and adventures of Robinson Crusoe

that spawned a whole genre of popular

fiction like Swiss Family Robinson or

Lord of the Flies and plenty of TV stuff

as well what we're doing first I'm sure

it it was the image I've thought about

this quite a lot I mean the book

definitely contributed hugely but that

image just says limited horizons

simplicity Wolf's beauty a different

life than life I'm living now and I

think it says that to many many people

the island as image is what has made the

whole desert island thing catch on let's

hear a bit more from Robinson Crusoe

must swim keep swimming

breathe must breathe

now swim swim

that was a reconstruction of the moment

poor shipwrecked crew so first hit dry

land with Roy Marsden as the old Crusoe

and Tom Bevan as the young man I'm

joined here in the studio by Martin

Popplewell

who over 30 years ago saw a film called

the blue lagoon and decided he wanted to

live on a desert island too and that's

exactly what he did how did that work

out for you Martin

well our arrival was a lot less

traumatic which we've just heard so in a

sense no less complicated the Blue

Lagoon I would say is actually a

Robinson odd it comes from that same

genre and I saw that film when I was 15

years old and was utterly captivated by

the idea of being stranded on a desert

island getting to one turned out to be a

lot more complicated I ended up

advertising in the same way that Lucy

was involved in an avert eyes meant and

going off to an island it didn't work

out with the first girl she left and

then another girl Friday came and joined

me and we kind of got to that sort of

experience which I was hoping to

recreate of building her own house and

living in part the whole ideal of living

on a desert island and tell me Martin

about Crusoe's early life something that

surprised me reading the book is how

much happened to him how much detail

there is before even get stays desert

island this is the thing I think when

people think of Robinson Crusoe they

just think of the island and nothing

else but there's a whole huge portion of

the book before that which starts with

him being told by his dad not to go off

and you know to get a sensible job be a

lawyer or whatever and then he ends up

going off on the first part of his

adventure which involves him being held

captive for two years as a slave himself

in Morocco

then he manages to escape with in fact

another slave and he ends up going to

the Brazil's as he puts it rather

crudely he kind of sells the slave that

he escaped with to the captain on the

boat he then spent some time in Brazil

becoming quite successful as a

plantation owned

and then goes off on another adventure

and that's where the bits that everybody

that everybody know yes I hadn't

realized how long he was deserted 28

years says the book and just how boring

it must have been

let me read an extract from early on

December the 24th much rain all night

and all day no stirring out December the

25th rain all day December the 26th no

rain and the earth much cooler than

before in pleasanter December the 27th

killed a young goat I have to say the

passage doesn't exactly sell it as a

page-turner does it well I think you've

been maybe a little bit mean and the

bits each exciting bit I mean it 28

years though as you point out is a

hugely long time if we're going to start

digging into some of the detail of Defoe

and Crusoe there could be some hidden

meaning in that 28 years because it

equals the time between the restoration

of the monarchy and Glorious Revolution

and that is important for Defoe but 28

years gosh you would go insane I mean

yes or you would change though

irrevocably that you couldn't just fit

into civilization again I think it would

be impossible to me that the fact that

he was able to go back and become a

businessman again and have new ventures

doesn't ring very true I think you're as

interested in Crusoe's creator Defoe as

you are in the character tell me a

little bit more about Daniel Defoe what

what do we know about his early life he

was born in extraordinary times into a

decentest family which did a very much

Church of England England it was quite a

difficult thing to be even as a young

child he had to go to a special school

and he was barred from going to Oxford

or Cambridge which his father would have

liked

so everything was dictated by religion

you begin to see where all that banging

on on the island comes from he lived

through the fire of London

apparently his house was one of only

three to be standing in his part of

London and then there was the plague so

I mean

this is a man who if he was really going

to be a castaway or on his own which

they seen many times was he was the

right person to do it he'd lived through

an awful lot before he even came to

maturity and possibly running away as

well because because Dafoe was bankrupt

a lot of the time he actually ended up

in jail a couple of times the most

famous incident for him ending up in

prison or came about because he was a

pamphleteer so in those days being a

pamphleteer meant you sort of put these

pages of the sort of 30 pages together

on a political issue or whatever and he

basically wrote a satirical attack on

the way the government was treating

dissenters Presbyterians and got charged

with seditious libel which put simply

means that he was writing so much could

lead to an uprising or an insurrection

found guilty and was put in the pillory

which basically meant the stalks which

they moved around to three different

locations in London and you could you

could end up getting serious injuries

people perhaps through and we call

callable savage to me that's an

extraordinary punishment with your head

bent forward and your arm stuck through

holes a bat must have ate tremendously

and for three days in three different

locations he strikes me reading some of

his workers have a bit of a sort of fun

17th century 18th century read top

journalist his output is amazing Moll

Flanders a Journal of the plague year a

tour through the whole island of Great

Britain the political history of the the

devil but what about the really racy

Pacey stuff that he started writing when

he was nearly seventy one of them was

entitled matrimonial Hold'em or a

treatise on the use and abuse of the

marriage bed

no that was [ __ ] journalist who wasn't

it I mean he put that title out there it

would immediately be drawn so Cora but

people were gagging to read it so then

it went out just with the treaty's name

and he says of his of himself no man has

tasted differing fortunes more and

thirteen times I have been rich and poor

absolutely right arrest her for life he

was a spy for a while too what wasn't

yes not a spy in the formless of James

Bond and he would basically go around

listening to what people were saying so

that this was before the active union

between England and Scotland are all

around about the time he was up there

listening to what people were saying and

reporting back to very senior people

within government in in in London as to

what was going on and what people were

saying or what people were thinking so

he was a spy in that sense but before

the spying before the rioting he was a

trader and he basically was involved in

in southern pants knickers and tights

hosiery I think his is the term also had

a brick factory randomly out in Tilbury

in Essex

he had a very very full and diverse life

you're listening to great lives with

Lucy Ervin and Martin Popplewell today

we're looking at the life of Daniel

Defoe Lucy was there an inspiration for

the life and adventures of Robinson

Crusoe written by himself was Daniel

Defoe basing this on anyone else his

experience

oh I'm sure he'd have collected lots and

lots of different stories from sailors

from people he met in jail and put them

all together and I'm sure that somewhere

along the line Alexander Selkirk story

came to him Alexander Selkirk was a

castaway who lived off the coast of

Chile for a while when he was genuinely

cast away for four years I think it was

Gerald my husband every year went and

left on the same island but I don't

think that Alexander Selkirk was the one

base for the story of Robinson Crusoe

and I understand that academicians feel

that it's absolutely impossible that

this was all taken from one person one

person's story do you think some people

like Crusoe or Selkirk or or you Lucy or

perhaps you Martin have a higher

threshold for for loneliness than than

others or do we do to ourselves that we

we can just be alone and not go crazy I

can do it now I think you know I did it

when I was much younger and for

shorter period of time and if I went

back there now I would go bonkers within

a few days a few years and so I think I

think you know your horizons when you're

young are much narrower I'm not sure

about Lucy but I couldn't go did you go

bonkers Lucy if I did I still am I'm

still doing it in a sense I mean when I

came back from to an island I spent some

time in a sense trying to be normal I

heard a family but as soon as that

family it was old enough to go off to a

desert island that's what I did because

I felt the benefits of that year that

I'd had on to an island was so great I

wanted my children to have such benefits

themselves and that's the story of the

year that I spent with my younger sons

out in the Solomon Islands on a five

acre spec read a little quote from one

of your your books with a little

pirouette of inner excitement I realized

just how much there was to look forward

to tomorrow the thought of being naked

all day and the Sun was delicious enough

but there was the whole of our new world

to explore

why are we so drawn to this tale of

those who choose to live so

independently why why is it taken root

in our culture and in them the way it

has I think it's because most people's

lives seemed to them at some stage at

least very complicated very demanding I

didn't know which way to turn and there

were so many possibilities so I was

looking for simplicity and I think a

great many people are it's about having

your own Kingdom can I just try to find

a bit that I absolutely love in what

it's inclusive can you give me say yes

absolutely

[Applause]

it would have made a stoic smile to see

me and my little family sit down to

dinner there was my Majesty The Prince

and Lord of the whole island

I had the lives of all my subjects at my

absolute command I could hang your give

me liberty take it away

no rebels among all my subjects I mean

this big Monica Voorhees surveys and

summers wrote that

oh is it yes a Selkirk himself in his

the solitude of Alexander Selkirk says I

am monarch of all I survey my right

there is none to dispute isn't there

something a little bit selfish Martin

about the idea of having your own little

kingdom as you put it when you read

Robinson Crusoe he is really miserable

at least initially he learns to love the

island and learns to rise how lucky is

but initially his technique I'm sure

what well exactly

exactly yeah but I can't help thinking

that when people probably read it as

well they would have thought how

horrible to have been stranded away

somewhere in the last 300 years

the idea has morphed from being

something which is terrible and a

terrible of fiction to being something

hugely desirable yes to being a utopian

idea and and it's wrong but it's a

really important thing to observe about

how the castaway myth has evolved in the

last 300 years I think people have

changed so much in their attitude to it

for instance I I didn't feel at all this

is my kingdom

I felt very humbled by being a minuscule

and inconsequential speck on an island

every evening I would walk out onto a

sand spit when the tide was low and I

would realize how how little and

unimportant

I was and how huge and terrifying and

also magnificent nature was if you like

I would say this is in harmony with

nature it's more like a being in awe of

something you can't control you can't

control it so this thing about forming a

kingdom on an island

it's like an attempt at controlling in

order to stay sane if you like and also

I mean it of its time isn't it it's

empire-building and if ever there was an

imperious imperialist cultural colonial

that has to be Robinson Crusoe

absolutely Lucy and let's hear another

extract from the book which this leads

us straight to this time it's about

cruises companion Friday the days after

the discovery of the footprint were a

turmoil of doubt and fear I hid in my

cave to freighted to venture forth

except on brief excursions I never went

without my gun although I didn't use it

for fear of alerting my enemies but took

to snaring game and fishing

each morning I climbed the hill behind

my cave and spying my island always

looking towards the west to see if there

were any visitors I see it clearly now

the footprint was a vision sent to be a

test of my faith for what mortal man can

leave one footprint on an entire Shore

fear a dangerous a thousand times more

terrifying than danger itself

the summit the air is good and fresh for

Sunshine's the sea is perfect my island

is a Garden of Eden Lucia

are you comfortable with Chris's

relationship with Friday no I'm not

comfortable with it but that's because

I'm a person of my time and Dafoe who

created Crusoe was a person of his time

and it was in the way of things for

Defoe to make his character Crusoe

immediately see this savage as inferior

to him and somebody to enslave and be

useful to him we have quite near the

beginning of their relationship the

moment when Friday puts Crusoe's foot on

his head and this is his ultimate act of

maybe rather wishful submission and

people must have seen a wonderful

satirical adaptation of the cruces story

called man Friday with starring Peter

O'Toole and his wonderful perfect for

desert island eyes in that he teaches

Friday to be exactly like an English

school boy there's a beautiful scene

where they're eating for the first time

together and of course fried is sitting

a bit down and if the body language is

all I master you slave and when he names

him Friday he gives Friday a name but he

doesn't have a name he's master I master

you Friday don't play about with your

spoon I wonder at Martin whether there

isn't just a missionary instinct at play

here what do you do sense any sort of

gay subtext to the relationship with

Friday in the book in Robinson Crusoe

there is nothing no reference at all

the only thing which does come out from

the book is Crusoe is really really fond

of Friday in a way that I would imagine

that he had an affection for him that I

suspect would have not have been the

same kind of fact

that a slave owner would have had all

the traders would necessarily have

expect exactly and it's also important

to point out that Friday was actually

not a black African he was from the sort

of the Caribbean from those islands

there what some scholars of Defoe have

said is that Defoe was homosexual

obviously we'll never know but there are

a number of people who have pointed to

that and it's interesting that you know

it wasn't a woman that he ended up being

on an island with it was a man the film

of Martin's experience out on a speck of

Micronesia was called the real castaway

and at one point he starts talking about

being terrified of going back because of

the sheer numbers of people options

choices people I remember being more

daunted about going back to the UK then

I felt going to my desert island maybe

it's because when you're living on a

desert island it's very very simple

it's a matter of about clocking the fact

that you perhaps haven't got enough

firewood and so you should perhaps going

collect some driftwood or make sure that

you open up some dry coconuts to add to

your fuel and so yes and I remember as

well we had occasional visitors from

another Island about ten miles away that

was the closest in the habited land but

they always came during the day and they

were friendly we knew them and we'd hear

the boats in the distance and we'd see

them approaching I remember one night

hearing this boat and Rachel my

companion we were terrified did you Lucy

develop this fear of other people while

you were on the island yes in fact

during part of the time when I was on

the island towards the end when Gerald

my husband was starting to mend engines

for local Islanders I started to resent

their coming I just wanted to go back to

being alone

actually that's what I did I said to

Jared look we've come here for a year I

want to stay here and Jared would go off

to another island and and he would stay

with the chief of Bardot and I would

stay alone on to him and also who

explored a different theme but along the

same lines as JM Coetzee who of course

wrote fo a book called foe which is all

about a woman landing on the island and

kind of living between Friday and

Robinson Crusoe and she actually has her

way with Crusoe and ends up going off

with Friday

it's a marvelous book actually but but

don't you think also that I mean it may

not have necessarily been that Crusoe

was gay or Friday gay but perhaps

because they were so dependent on each

other they had to form an unusually

close relationship what's interesting

there was what sorry to interrupt

they had to form a close relationship

but there's no there's no really the

book where Crusoe gets annoyed with

Friday we'll see don't know what

Friday's thinking and I just can't help

thinking my experiences of living on an

island think all of our experiences of

being on a holiday with friends if

you're cooped up with one other person

for a while you will probably end up

having a row about something and those

those roles matter to you but there's no

reference to them in Robinson Crusoe at

all the other thing just as an aside

which fascinated me there are no

reference to coconuts and when you are

on a desert island it's all about

coconuts you can drink them you can eat

them you can make alcohol out of them

you can make vinegar out of them you can

make thatch to put on your your roof to

keep you dry but there is no reference

to the coconut tree in in Robinson

Crusoe very briefly how does Crusoe's

story end so there are I suppose two

answers to this there's the end to the

Robinson Crusoe book and and he

crucially discovers that the island is

being visited by cannibals

some mutineers arrive and basically he

helps the captain get control of the

ship and then leaves and then there's

this rather sort of strange bit of the

book where he makes his way back to the

UK over the Pyrenees and he's chased by

I think about 300 wharves and it's all

mad I mean you just like thinking where

do these ideas come from that's the end

of the Robinson Crusoe first book he did

of course write a second book which I'll

give you the short version was called

Lee the further adventures of Rods

secrets oh yeah the sequel came out the

same year because it had been such a

success in 1719 the first one where he

goes off on on a whole / adventures poor

old Freud he gets killed he does

actually go back to his island

interestingly enough but ends up going

to Madagascar and Siberia and all sorts

of other places Defoe through the mouth

of Crusoe admits almost from the start

that his adventures were reckless and

foolish Lucey first and then Martin was

it silly what you did it was reckless

and foolish I don't know about silly but

I don't regret it one bit

it's informed every day of my life since

I could not do the very difficult work

that I'm doing at the moment in helping

animals in need among the Roma community

helping children and seeing horrible

sights every day of cruelty and so on I

couldn't do it without having Island

experience and I couldn't have coped

when my house burnt down two years after

I moved to port area it was just

automatic I went straight back into

castaway mode I'm gonna camp fine I

would completely agree with Lucy

reckless and an experience which is

defined absolutely without doubt

everything that has come after it that

knowledge that actually you don't need

very much to survive my thanks to Lucy

Ervin in Bulgaria and to Martin

Popplewell in the warmth and safety of

this London studio goodbye