NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden: 'I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things'

Summary

Edward Snowden, a former infrastructure analyst for the NSA, details his transformation from systems engineer to whistleblower. He reveals the expansive surveillance capabilities of the NSA, which indiscriminately collect and analyze global communications, potentially violating privacy rights. Snowden chose to expose these practices to empower the public to decide on the legitimacy of such surveillance. He discusses his decision to come forward publicly and the risks involved, emphasizing his commitment to transparency and democratic values over personal safety.

Takeaways

• 😀 Ed Snowden, at the time of the interview, was 29 years old and working for Booze Allen Hamilton as an infrastructure analyst for the NSA in Hawaii.
• 🔧 Snowden held various positions within the intelligence community, including systems engineer, systems administrator, senior advisor, solutions consultant, and telecommunications information systems officer.
• 🔍 Snowden's decision to become a whistleblower was influenced by his exposure to a broader scale of information and the realization of systemic abuses within the intelligence community.
• 📡 The NSA's surveillance activities are not limited to foreign intelligence but have expanded to domestic surveillance, collecting and analyzing communications of everyone by default.
• 👤 Snowden emphasized that any analyst with the right authority could target anyone, including high-profile individuals, for surveillance.
• 🌐 Snowden chose to identify himself publicly to provide transparency and context to his actions, believing that the public deserves an explanation for decisions made outside of democratic processes.
• 🏢 Snowden acknowledged the risks associated with his actions, including potential retaliation from powerful intelligence agencies.
• 🏙️ Snowden chose Hong Kong as a location to reveal his identity and the information he possessed, citing its tradition of free speech and relative independence from mainland China's censorship.
• 💡 Snowden did not intend to harm the United States or aid its enemies; his goal was to inform the public about the extent of surveillance and allow them to decide on its legitimacy.
• 🚨 Snowden expressed concern that without public action, surveillance policies could become more entrenched, leading to a 'turnkey tyranny' where the government has unchecked surveillance powers.

Q & A

What was Edward Snowden's role at Booz Allen Hamilton?

Edward Snowden worked as an infrastructure analyst for the National Security Agency (NSA) in Hawaii while employed by Booz Allen Hamilton.

What positions did Snowden hold within the intelligence community prior to his whistleblowing?

Snowden had held various positions including systems engineer, systems administrator, senior advisor, solutions consultant, and telecommunications information systems officer for the Central Intelligence Agency.

How did Snowden's exposure to information lead him to become a whistleblower?

Snowden's role as a systems administrator granted him access to a broad range of information, revealing abuses that he felt compelled to address. His concerns were often ignored, leading him to the realization that the public should be informed and decide on these matters.

What is the primary focus of the NSA and intelligence community according to Snowden?

The NSA and intelligence community aim to gather intelligence by any means necessary, originally focused on foreign intelligence but increasingly targeting domestic communications.

How does the NSA collect and process communications, according to Snowden?

The NSA collects communications by default, ingesting them into their system, filtering, analyzing, measuring, and storing them for extended periods, enabling any analyst to target anyone, including US citizens.

Why did Snowden choose to reveal his identity instead of remaining anonymous?

Snowden believed the public deserved an explanation of the motivations behind disclosures that subvert government power. He wanted to defend the authenticity of the information and show that he was not against the country but against the surveillance policies.

What were the potential risks Snowden considered in revealing his identity?

Snowden was aware of the possibility of being rendered by the CIA, pursued by third-party partners, or targeted by other nations' intelligence agencies due to his whistleblowing.

Why did Snowden choose Hong Kong as his location to disclose the information?

Snowden chose Hong Kong due to its tradition of free speech and relative independence from mainland China's restrictions. He did not intend to defect to China or aid an enemy of the United States.

What could Snowden have done with the documents if his intent was to harm the US or gain materially?

Snowden could have sold secrets on the open market to countries like Russia or revealed sensitive information about undercover assets and intelligence operations worldwide, but his goal was not to harm the US or gain materially.

What is Snowden's greatest fear regarding the outcome of his disclosures?

Snowden's greatest fear is that nothing will change, and people will not be willing to take risks to stand up and force their representatives to act against the surveillance policies.

How does Snowden view the future of surveillance if policies are not changed?

Snowden believes that without policy changes, surveillance capabilities will continue to expand, leading to a 'turnkey tyranny' where a new leader could unilaterally increase control over society without public opposition.

Outlines

00:00

🔍 Edward Snowden's Whistleblowing Journey

Edward Snowden, a 29-year-old infrastructure analyst for the NSA in Hawaii, working for Booze Allen Hamilton, discusses his previous positions within the intelligence community, including roles at the CIA and as a telecommunications information systems officer. He describes his transformation from an insider to a whistleblower, driven by the frequent exposure to disturbing information and abuses of power within the intelligence agencies. Snowden explains how his awareness of wrongdoing built up over time, leading him to the decision to go public with his concerns, believing that the public should decide on the legitimacy of such surveillance practices rather than government officials. He also outlines the expansive capabilities of the NSA's surveillance, which can target any individual, including American citizens, and how analysts have the power to access and monitor communications without specific cause.

05:02

🌐 The American Surveillance State and Its Global Reach

Snowden elaborates on the functioning of the American surveillance state, emphasizing the NSA's strategy to gather intelligence both domestically and internationally. He explains that the NSA collects and analyzes all communications by default, not just those of foreign governments or terrorism suspects. Snowden asserts that any analyst can target anyone, anywhere, given the right authorities, which he possessed while working at his desk. He discusses the risks he has taken by revealing his identity as the whistleblower, acknowledging the potential for retaliation from powerful intelligence agencies. Snowden also addresses the potential consequences of his actions, including the possibility of being pursued by third-party partners of the CIA or other nations, and the lifelong fear that comes with such a decision. He argues that the public's right to make informed decisions about surveillance practices outweighs the personal risks he has taken.

10:04

🏙️ Snowden's Choice of Hong Kong and His Motivations

Snowden discusses his choice to come to Hong Kong, refuting the notion that he intended to defect to China or aid an enemy of the United States. He clarifies that he views China not as an enemy but as a trading partner with the U.S., and that Hong Kong has a tradition of free speech and an independent government. He explains that his decision to come to Hong Kong was based on its legal framework and not an intention to seek asylum in China. Snowden also counters accusations that his actions were motivated by personal gain or a desire to harm the United States. He could have sold secrets on the open market or caused significant damage to U.S. intelligence operations if that had been his goal, but his true intention was to expose the extent of surveillance and allow the public to decide on its acceptability. He expresses his greatest fear: that despite the disclosures, nothing will change, and the surveillance state will continue to expand its control over society.

Keywords

💡Whistleblower

A whistleblower is an individual who exposes unethical or illegal activities occurring in an organization or institution. In the context of the video, Ed Snowden is referred to as a whistleblower because he disclosed classified information from the National Security Agency (NSA) regarding mass surveillance programs. His actions are central to the video's theme of privacy, government overreach, and the public's right to know about surveillance practices.

💡Surveillance State

The term 'surveillance state' refers to a society or nation where the government exercises pervasive and intrusive surveillance over its citizens. In the video, Snowden discusses how the NSA and the intelligence community collect and analyze vast amounts of data on individuals, often without their knowledge, which is indicative of a surveillance state. This concept is crucial to understanding the video's exploration of privacy rights and state power.

💡NSA

The National Security Agency (NSA) is a U.S. government agency responsible for global monitoring, collection, and processing of information and data for foreign intelligence and counterintelligence purposes. In the transcript, Snowden mentions his role at the NSA and how it gave him access to information that led him to become a whistleblower. The NSA is a key player in the video's narrative about mass surveillance and the ethical dilemmas it presents.

💡Systems Administrator

A systems administrator is a professional responsible for the upkeep, configuration, and reliable operation of computer systems; they often have privileged access to sensitive information. Snowden mentions his position as a systems administrator, which granted him the access necessary to uncover and later expose the extent of the NSA's surveillance activities. This role is pivotal to the video's storyline as it highlights the power and responsibility that come with such access.

💡Mass Surveillance

Mass surveillance involves the collection of personal data from a large number of people, often without their consent, by governments or corporations. The video discusses how the NSA engages in mass surveillance, indiscriminately collecting communications data. This keyword is central to the video's message about the erosion of privacy and the potential abuse of state power.

💡Self-Certification

Self-certification in the context of the video refers to the practice where government agencies, like the NSA, determine on their own that their actions are in the national interest without external oversight. Snowden criticizes this practice, arguing that it leads to unchecked surveillance powers. This concept is key to understanding the video's argument against the lack of transparency and accountability in government surveillance programs.

💡Telecommunications

Telecommunications encompasses the transmission of information over distances, typically via electronic means such as the internet or telephone networks. In the transcript, Snowden discusses how the NSA targets telecommunications, highlighting the ubiquity of surveillance in modern communication channels. This keyword is integral to the video's discussion on how surveillance technologies permeate everyday life.

💡Democratic Model

The democratic model refers to a system of governance in which power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or through their elected representatives. Snowden mentions the democratic model in the context of questioning the legitimacy of secret government actions that undermine the public's ability to make informed decisions. This keyword is essential to the video's broader theme of the importance of democratic processes and public oversight.

💡Hong Kong

Hong Kong is a special administrative region of China known for its relative autonomy and strong tradition of free speech. Snowden chose Hong Kong as a location to disclose his identity and the information he had, as mentioned in the transcript. The choice of Hong Kong is significant as it underscores Snowden's intent to seek political asylum and his belief in the region's ability to provide a platform for free speech and dissent.

💡TurnKey Tyranny

TurnKey tyranny is a term used to describe a situation where authoritarian measures are readily available and can be implemented with ease, often through existing technology or infrastructure. Snowden uses this term to warn about the potential for future governments to exploit surveillance infrastructure to exert control. This keyword encapsulates the video's warning about the dangers of unchecked surveillance technologies and their implications for freedom and democracy.

Highlights

Ed Snowden introduces himself as a 29-year-old infrastructure analyst for the NSA in Hawaii.

Snowden held various positions within the intelligence community, including systems engineer and senior advisor.

He describes the process of becoming a whistleblower, driven by witnessing systemic abuses.

Snowden explains the broad scale of surveillance by the NSA, including domestic surveillance.

He details how the NSA collects and analyzes communications, even of those not suspected of wrongdoing.

Snowden discusses the potential for any analyst to target anyone's communications, given the right authorities.

He chose to identify himself publicly to provide context and defend the authenticity of his disclosures.

Snowden considers the risks of opposing powerful intelligence agencies but believes in the public's right to know.

He anticipates potential retaliation from the US government and its partners.

Snowden emphasizes the importance of surveillance oversight and the public's role in determining its legitimacy.

He argues that even if one is not doing anything wrong, mass surveillance poses a threat to individual freedom.

Snowden chose Hong Kong for its tradition of free speech and independence, contrary to claims of seeking to defect to China.

He clarifies that his intentions are not to harm the US but to expose the extent of surveillance capabilities.

Snowden expresses concern that without change, surveillance policies will expand unchecked.

He fears that without public action, there may come a time when surveillance becomes an uncontrollable tyranny.

Transcripts

uh my name is Ed Snowden I'm uh 29 years

old I work for Booze Allen Hamilton as

an infrastructure analyst for NSA uh in

Hawaii what are some of the positions

that you held previously within the

intelligence Community uh I've been a

systems engineer systems administrator

uh uh senior advisor uh for the uh

Central Intelligence Agency Solutions

consultant and a telecommunications

Information Systems officer one of the

things people are going to be most

interested in in in in trying to

understand what who you are and what

you're thinking is there came some point

in time when you cross this line of

thinking about being a

whistleblower um to making the choice to

actually become a whistleblower walk

people through that decisionmaking

process uh when you're in positions of

of privileged access like a a systems

administrator for these sort of

intelligence Community agencies you're

exposed to a lot more information on a

broader scale than the average employee

and because of that you see things that

uh may be disturbing but uh over the

course of a normal person's career you'd

only see one or two of these instances

uh when you see everything you see them

on a more frequent basis and you

recognize that some of these things are

actually abuses and when you talk to

people about them uh in a place like

this where this is the the normal state

of business people tend not to take them

very seriously and you know move on from

them but over time that awareness of

wrongdoing sort of builds up and you

feel compelled to talk about it and the

more you talk about it the more you're

ignored the more you're told it's not a

problem until eventually you realize

that uh these things need to be

determined by the public not by somebody

who was simply hired by the government

talk a little bit about how the American

surveillance State actually functions

are does it Target the actions of

Americans uh NSA and the intelligence

community in general uh is focused on

getting intelligence wherever it can by

any means possible that it believes on

the grounds of sort of a

self-certification that they serve the

national interest uh originally we saw

that uh Focus very narrowly tailored as

foreign intelligence gathered overseas

now increasingly we see that it's

happening domestically and to do that

they uh dnsa specifically targets the

communications of everyone it ingests

them by default it collects them in its

system and it filters them and it

analyzes them and it measures them and

it stores them for periods of time

simply because that's the easiest most

efficient and most valuable way to

achieve these ends so while they may uh

be intending to uh Target someone

associated with a foreign government or

someone that they suspect of terrorism

they're collecting your Communications

to do so any analyst that anytime can

Target anyone uh any selector anywhere

where those uh Communications will be

picked up depends on the range of the

sensor networks and the authorities that

that analyst is empowered with not all

analysts have the ability to Target

everything but I sitting my desk uh

certainly had the authorities to to

wiretap anyone from you or your

accountant to a federal judge to even

the president if I had a personal email

one of the extraordinary Parts about

this episode is that usually

whistleblowers do what they do

anonymously and take steps to remain

anonymous for as long as they can which

they hope often is forever you on the

other hand have decided to do the

opposite which is to declare yourself

openly as the person Behind These

disclosures why did you choose to do

that I I think that the public has owed

an explanation of the motivations behind

the people who make these disclosures

that are outside of the democratic model

when you are subverting the power of

government that that's a fundamentally

dangerous thing to democracy and if you

do that in secret consistently you know

as the government does uh when it wants

to benefit from a secret action that it

took uh it'll kind of give it its

official a mandate to go hey you know

tell the Press about this thing and that

thing so the public is on our side but

they rarely if ever do that when an

abuse occurs that falls to uh individual

citizens but they're typically maligned

you know it becomes a thing of these

people are against the country they're

against the government but I'm not I'm

I'm no different from anybody else I

don't have special skills uh I'm just

another guy who sits there dayto day in

the office watches what happening what's

happening and goes this is something

that's not our place to decide the

public needs to decide whether these

programs and policies are right or wrong

and I'm willing to go on the record to

defend the authenticity of them and say

I didn't change these I didn't modify

the story this is the truth this is

what's happening you should decide

whether we need to be doing this have

you given thought to what it is that the

US government's response to your conduct

is in terms of what they might say about

you how they might try to depict you

what they might try to do to you uh yeah

I I could be you know rendered by the

CIA I could have uh people come after me

or any of their their third-party

Partners uh you know they they work

closely with a number of other nations

uh or you know they could pay off the

Triads or you know any any of their

agents or assets uh We've we've got a

CIA station just up the road in the

consulate here in Hong Kong and I'm sure

they're going to be uh very busy for the

next week um and that's that's a fear

I'll live under for the rest of my life

however long that happens to be you you

can't come forward against the world's

most powerful intelligence agencies and

uh be completely free from risk because

they're such powerful adversaries that

that no one can meaningfully oppose them

um if they want to get you they'll get

you in time but at the same time you

have to make a determination about what

it is that's important to you and if

living uh living UNF freely but

comfortably is something you're willing

to accept and I think many of us are

it's it's the human

nature uh you can get up every day you

can go to work you can collect your your

large paycheck for relatively little

work uh against the public interest and

go to sleep at night after watching uh

your shows but if you realize that

that's the world that you helped create

and it's going to get worse with the

Next Generation and the Next Generation

who extend the capabilities of this sort

of architecture of depression uh you

realize that you might be willing to

accept any risk and it doesn't matter

what the outcome is so long as the

public gets to make their own decisions

about how that's applied why should

people care about surveillance because

even if you're not doing anything wrong

you're being watched and recorded and

the the storage capability of these

systems increases every year

consistently by orders of

magnitude uh to where it's getting to

the point you don't have to have done

anything wrong you simply have to

eventually fall under suspicion from

somebody even by a wrong call and then

they can use the system to go back in

time and scrutinize every decision

you've ever made every friend you've

ever discussed something with and attack

you on that basis to sort of derive

suspicion from an innocent life and

paint anyone in the context of a

wrongdoer we are currently sitting in a

room in in Hong Kong which is where we

are because you travel here talk a

little bit about why it is that you came

here and specifically there going to be

people who will speculate um that what

you really intend to do is to defect to

the country that many see as the number

one rival of the United States which is

China and that what you're really doing

is essentially seeking to Aid an enemy

of the United States with which you

intend to um seek Asylum can you talk a

little bit about that sure so there

there's a couple assertions in in those

arguments um that are that are sort of

embedded in the the questioning of the

choice of Hong Kong uh the first is that

China is an enemy of the United States

it's not I mean there there are

conflicts between the United States

government and the Chinese uh PRC

government but the the peoples

inherently you know we we don't care we

trade with each other freely you know

we're not at War we're not uh in armed

conflict and we're not trying to be

we're we're the largest trading part

Partners out there for each other um

additionally Hong Kong has a strong

tradition of free speech uh people think

oh China Great firewall mainland China

does have significant restrictions on

Free Speech but uh the Hong Kong the

people of Hong Kong uh have a long

tradition of protesting in the streets

of making their views known the internet

is not filtered here um no more so than

any other Western Government and I

believe that the the uh Hong Kong

government is actually independent uh in

relation to a lot of other leading

Western

governments if your motive had been to

harm the United States and help its

enemies or if your motive had been

personal material gain were there things

that you could have done with these

documents um to advance those goals that

you didn't end up doing oh absolutely I

mean anybody in the positions of access

with the te technical uh capabilities

that I had could you know suck out

Secrets pass on the open market to

Russia you know they always have an open

door as we do

um I had access to you know the the full

rosters of everyone working at the NSA

the entire intelligence Community uh and

undercover assets all around the world

uh the locations of every station we

have what their missions are and so

forth uh if I had just wanted to harm

the US you know

that you could shut down the the

surveillance system in an

afternoon um but that's not my attention

and I I think for anyone um making that

argument they need to think if they were

in my position uh and you know you live

a privileged life you you're living in

Hawaii in paradise and making a ton of

money what would it take to make you

leave everything

behind the the greatest fear that I have

regarding um the

outcome uh for America of these

disclosures is that nothing will change

um people will see in the media uh all

of these disclosures they'll know the

length that the the government is going

to Grant themselves Powers

unilaterally um to create greater

control over American society and Global

Society but they they won't be willing

to take the risks necessarily to stand

up and fight to change things to force

their representatives to actually take a

stand in their

interests uh and the months ahead the

the years ahead it's only going to get

worse until eventually there will be a

time where uh policies will change

because the only thing that restricts

the activities of the surveillance state

are policy uh even our agreements with

with other Sovereign governments we

consider that to be uh a stipulation of

policy rather than a stipulation of Law

and because of that a new leader will be

elected they'll flip the switch uh say

that

um because of the crisis because of the

dangers that we face in the world you

know some some new and unpredicted

threat we need more Authority we need

more power and there will be nothing the

people can do at that point to oppose it

uh and it'll be TurnKey

tyranny