How to build a successful tech startup according to Paypal founder Max Levchin

Summary

マックス・レフチンは、PayPalの共同創業者であり、多くの成功したテクノロジースタートアップを創設した起業家です。このインタビューでは、彼が最新の会社であるAffirmについて語り、信用スコアの改善、消費者の透明性、そして金融業界における正直な取引の重要性を強調しています。また、彼の移民の背景が彼のビジネス哲学にどのように影響を与えているかについても触れています。さらに、彼は大企業如GoogleやFacebookの責任と、社会問題へのアプローチについても洞察を提供しています。

Takeaways

• 🚀 Max Levchinは、27歳で大成功を収め、その後も活発に起業家として活動を続けています。
• 💡 PayPalの創設後、eBayに売却され、その後もSNS事業のSlideを立ち上げ、Googleに売却しました。
• 🔄 現在はデジタルローンビジネスのAffirmを運営しており、これまでの経験を活かして様々な取り組みを進めています。
• 👦 Levchinは8歳の姪に自分の仕事を説明する際、「会社を立ち上げ、運営する」と言われています。
• 🛠️ Affirmは、信用情報の透明性と包括性を高め、信用不良者や新移民を支援することを目的としています。
• 💳 Affirmは、ポイントカードやクレジットカードとは異なり、支払い計画を提供し、消費者が正確な金額を知ることができます。
• 💰 Affirmは、利子や費用を一切追加せず、消費者が支払い金額を知り、安心して商品を購入できるようにしています。
• 📈 Affirmの成功は、ユーザー数と満足度で測られており、Net Promoter Scoreが非常に高く、ユーザーからの推薦度が高いことを示しています。
• 🌐 Levchinは、移民としてアメリカに来た経験が、彼のビジネス観や社会的問題に対する考え方に影響を与えています。
• 🤝 Levchinは、技術的な発展だけでなく、社会的な責任を重視し、企業の価値観を明確にすることが重要だと考えています。
• 🔄 彼は、社会問題に対する解決策を模索する際に、実験を通じて解決策を探ることが重要だと述べています。

Q & A

Max Levchinはどのような仕事をしていますか？

Max Levchinは、会社を創立し、運営することを主な仕事としています。彼はコーダー、ハッカー、ビルダー、そして起業家と自称しています。

Maxは8歳の姪に自分の仕事をどのように説明しますか？

Maxは、自分がコーディングすることを説明すると言っています。彼は、自分がどのように自分を捉えるかについて、コーダーであるという考え方を明確にしています。

Firmはどのような会社ですか？

Firmは、信用スコアをより透明で包括的なものに改善することを目指したスタートアップです。現在は、販売時点での貸し出しや記録上の貸し出し者として組み込まれており、ユーザーに対しては費用や利子の詳細を明確に提示しています。

Maxは成功をどのように測定していますか？

Maxは、ユーザー数とユーザー満足度を重要な成功の指標としています。特に、Net Promoter Score（NPS）が高いことを挙げて、ユーザーがFirmを友人に推薦する意欲が高いことを示しています。

Firmはどのようにして儲かっていますか？

Firmは、商品やサービスを販売する際に提供するゼロパーセントローンを通じて儲かっています。このローンは、顧客が商品を購入する際にFirmが売主に対して支払いを行い、その後顧客に対して返済を求めます。

Maxは移民としてアメリカに来た経験は彼のビジネスにどのような影響を与えましたか？

Maxは、移民としてアメリカに来た経験が、彼のビジネスに対するアプローチに影響を与えたと説明しています。彼は、移民が持つ無限の機会感や制限のない環境での成長を大切にしており、Firmの創立にもその経験が反映されています。

Maxは、技術的な教育に対するどのような考えを持っていますか？

Maxは、教育に対する投資を重要視しており、特に未来の労働力市場に必要なスキルを備えるための教育に重点を置いていると述べています。彼は、教育を通じて社会の不利な立場にある人々を支援することが重要であると強調しています。

Maxは、アメリカの現在の移民政策についてどう考えていますか？

Maxは、技術的な移民や外国留学生に対する現在の政策に対して批判的な立場をとっています。彼は、教育を受けた人々を送り返すという政策が誤りであると述べており、彼らにワークパーミットや恒久的なビザを提供することが理想的であると主張しています。

Maxは、FacebookやGoogleのような大規模なプラットフォーム企業にどのようなアドバイスをしますか？

Maxは、これらの企業が、人々の生活や社会的な状況をより真剣に考慮する必要があるとアドバイスしています。彼は、これらの企業が持つ膨大なデータや影響力を扱う責任を認識し、適切な対応を行うことが重要だと考えています。

Maxは、貧困や所得格差の解決策として何を提案していますか？

Maxは、より文明的で軽率でない議論を行い、実験的なアプローチを取ることを提案しています。彼は、教育への投資や、未来の労働市場に備えたスキルの習得を重視し、社会の不利な立場にある人々を支援するための具体的なアプローチを試行錯誤するべきだと述べています。

Outlines

00:00

🚀 Max Levchin's Journey and Philosophy

Max Levchin, co-founder of PayPal and CEO of Affirm, shares his experiences and insights on entrepreneurship, innovation, and the importance of transparency and inclusivity in the financial industry. He discusses his early success with PayPal, his subsequent ventures, and his commitment to building a better financial system through Affirm, which offers honest and transparent financial products.

05:01

🌟 The Power of Transparency in Finance

Levchin emphasizes the need for a transparent and consumer-friendly financial infrastructure, inspired by his own experiences as an immigrant. He explains how Affirm was created to provide a better credit scoring system and to offer a true zero-percent loan, eliminating hidden fees and promoting honest transactions. He also highlights the company's rapid growth and high user satisfaction.

10:02

🌐 The Global Impact of Immigration

Levchin reflects on his immigrant background and its influence on his business philosophy. He advocates for skilled immigration, arguing that educated immigrants should be encouraged to stay and contribute to the economy of their adopted country. He shares his thoughts on President Trump's immigration policies and the importance of recognizing the potential of immigrants.

15:03

💡 The PayPal Mafia and Silicon Valley Legacy

Levchin reminisces about the early days of PayPal and the group of people who went on to found influential tech companies, known as the 'PayPal Mafia.' He discusses the unique challenges and successes of starting a company during the dot-com crash and the lasting impact of PayPal on the payments industry.

20:04

📈 The Evolution of Payments and Financial Services

Levchin provides insights into the vast and growing market of payments and financial services, highlighting the opportunities for innovation and disruption. He discusses the evolution of PayPal, the rise of peer-to-peer payments, and the potential for multiple successful companies in the industry.

25:06

🤔 The Role and Responsibility of Tech Giants

Levchin addresses the challenges faced by large tech platforms like Google and Facebook, emphasizing the immense responsibility they hold due to their vast influence and data collection. He suggests that these companies need to prioritize people over profit and be prepared for increased regulatory scrutiny.

30:07

🌱 Addressing Inequality and the Future of Work

Levchin discusses the issue of wealth and income inequality, sharing his views on socialism and the importance of conscious capitalism. He advocates for practical solutions like universal basic income and investing in education to prepare the workforce for future changes. He emphasizes the need for experimentation and iteration in addressing social issues.

Keywords

💡インフルエンサー

インフルエンサーとは、特定の分野で影響力を持つ人物であり、この動画ではMax Levchinがその例として挙げられています。彼はPayPalの共同創設者であり、その後も多くのテクノロジースタートアップを創設しています。この動画では、彼のキャリアとその成功について語られています。

💡PayPal

PayPalは、オンライン決済サービスのことで、Max Levchinが共同創設した企業です。この動画では、PayPalの創設とその後の成功、そしてeBayへの売却について説明されています。

💡スタートアップ

スタートアップとは、新しいビジネスを開始することを指し、この動画ではMax Levchinが何度も成功したテクノロジースタートアップの創設について話されています。

💡信用スコア

信用スコアは、金融機関が貸し出す際に信用の良し悪しを評価するための数値であり、この動画ではMax Levchinが信用スコアの改善を目指したAffirmの創設について説明しています。

💡金融サービス

金融サービスは、銀行や保険など、金融に関するサービスを提供することを指します。この動画では、Max Levchinが金融サービスの分野で革新を目指すAffirmの事業内容について話されています。

💡移民

移民は、自分の国を離れて別の国に移住することを指します。この動画では、Max Levchinが移民の経験とその影響について語られています。

💡テクノロジー

テクノロジーは、科学的な知識を応用して開発された製品やサービスを指します。この動画では、Max Levchinがテクノロジースタートアップの創設とその成功について話されています。

💡社会問題

社会問題とは、社会全体に影響を与える問題を指し、この動画ではMax Levchinが社会問題に対処するためのテクノロジーの役割について話されています。

💡金融テクノロジー

金融テクノロジーとは、金融サービスを提供するために使用されるテクノロジーを指します。この動画では、Max Levchinが金融テクノロジーの分野での仕事とその目的について説明しています。

💡ビジネスモデル

ビジネスモデルとは、企業が利益を上げ、市場で成功するために採用する戦略や方法を指します。この動画では、Max Levchinが様々なビジネスモデルを採用し、成功を収めたことを説明しています。

Highlights

Max Levchin's early success with PayPal and his transition back to entrepreneurship.

Levchin's vision for his current company, Affirm, and its focus on transparent financial products.

The importance of user experience and interface in the evolution of online commerce.

Affirm's approach to credit scoring and its aim to be more inclusive and transparent.

Levchin's personal experience with credit as an immigrant and how it influenced Affirm's mission.

Affirm's commitment to no hidden fees, late fees, or compound interest.

Levchin's views on the success of Affirm, measured by user satisfaction and Net Promoter Score.

The concept of 'true zero percent' loans and how Affirm differentiates itself from traditional financial institutions.

Levchin's thoughts on immigration policies and the benefits of skilled immigration.

The PayPal mafia and its lasting impact on the tech industry.

Levchin's perspective on the potential and challenges of the payments and financial services market.

The evolution of PayPal and its integration with eBay and Venmo.

Levchin's views on the role of big tech platforms like Google and Facebook in society.

The importance of core values in guiding a company's actions and decisions.

Levchin's experience on the board of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) and his insights into financial inequality.

Levchin's thoughts on wealth and income inequality and the potential of universal basic income.

The need for a more experimental approach to solving societal issues, according to Levchin.

Transcripts

the work of an influencer never stops

Max Levchin hit it rich at age 27 then

he went right back to the office in 1999

leptin co-founded PayPal which was sold

to eBay three years later for 1.5

billion leptin gained 100 million dollar

fortune from the deal soon after he

launched slide a social networking

business that he sold to Google from

hundreds of millions he now runs yet

another company the digital loan

business affirm and other endeavors as

well legend is here to talk about how to

find and build successful tech startups

over and over again

[Music]

hello everyone welcome to influencers

I'm Andy serwer and welcome to our guest

Max Levchin CEO of a firm co-founder of

PayPal part of the PayPal mafia and a

million other endeavors maybe just a

polymath we can call you that we'll get

into all the things like that oh my god

anyway welcome good to see you good to

see you so max how would you describe

what you do to say an 8 year old nephew

what do you do for a living

what's your work so I normally tell

people I start and run companies that's

kind of a 1:1 liner introduction but

when pressed I revert back to I just

write code but that's kind of how I

think of myself a coder coder a hacker a

builder a company starter that I haven't

thought of this one okay careful all

right maybe we can loop back to it why

don't you tell me about a firm your

latest company right now it's been

latest company for over seven years so

it's a bit of a bit of a long in the

tooth startup but still very much a

start-up the it's a bit of a throwback

to my PayPal day so PayPal was all about

innovating above the credit card rails

where we took credit cards which 20

years ago were really hard to use online

and built user interface which turned

out to be much more than user interface

to make it easy to use in a browser and

online commerce

was never the same 20 years later took

me a long time to realize that the

underlying infrastructure the what's

below the rails below the ground isn't

especially well made it's not

transparent it's not especially consumer

friendly it has its own user interface

problems makes money on people's

mistakes

kind of at a very fundamental level and

so I wanted to go back in there and see

if it can be remade better so 7 and a

little bit years ago we started a

company with initially just a very

narrow view of let's do a better job

scoring credit so so the venerable

credit score that everybody uses today

is pretty opaque it's not really clear

there's plenty of information online

where

this fraction is how much credit you

have used in this fraction is how much

money you make but there's not a whole

lot more to it that's been well

understood and as a result for personal

experience I came to the US as a

teenager had to have my PayPal

co-founder sign for my first car loan my

first cell phone you know this is after

PayPal IPL so your credit history is is

not exactly well utilized as your credit

is being assessed and so firm initially

was this idea let's build a better score

let's build something that's transparent

let's that's inclusive that brings

people into where they're being excluded

and then it expanded from there where at

this point we are embedded at the

point-of-sale as a lender of record so

when someone wants to buy a thing we

will underwrite you tell you hey here's

how much credit we can offer you will

actually pay the merchant so we'll take

the risk on you and finance your

purchase and then we'll build you over

time the cool thing about a firm sort of

through this commitment to transparency

we price everything in dollars as well

as rates you know exactly how much you

will pay all in so your principal your

interest we stopped at that number

so once you've paid us the amount we

promised that you will you cannot pay us

more which means we don't compound

interest into the principal but more

portly we don't charge fees of any kind

including no late fees and so as a

result it's probably the most honest or

transparent financial product out of the

market and that was we did that five

years ago and been growing very very

quickly since serving the millions of

users and billions of dollars lent keep

expanding keep on adding new financial

products so how do you measure success I

mean in how many users do you have do

you have to get accepted by various

legacy systems like payment systems like

merchants etc we measure success by

number of users we have that that is the

most important what is that try not to

talk in precise numbers but it's in the

single-digit millions at this point so

I'll keep it at that the better measure

I think is that number in juxtaposition

with user satisfaction so you can have a

lot of users but if they hate you you

know

get very far kind of you know places

like the DB come to mind but our huge

satisfaction scores have been

extraordinary

the Net Promoter Score for the company

basically from inception and through

today has been north of 80 yeah last

week was 83 I think and so that that's a

pretty good sign that most of our users

would gladly recommend a firm to their

friends and we would I use it though max

in other words how would I win what I

want to use this and try it if you're

buying a peloton bike or a Castro

mattress both great companies right here

in New York City you would find us

offered add the point of sale and the

choice there is yours we can say hey I'm

just gonna buy it with my debit card

because I have the cash and I don't need

any help or you might use your credit

card especially if you're sort of

hunting for points and you want to

double down on those but if you're

younger or an immigrant or don't like

credit cards whatever whatever sort of a

stripe of society or you come from there

plenty of people that turns out that say

I just want a payment plan that tells me

exactly how much money I'm gonna owe and

what I'm gonna be done and I don't want

a card or an account or anything to

chase me down later and make me spend

more money or charge me peas I didn't

expect so that's what a firm will do for

you about a third of our transactions

and more than a third of our merchants

offer what's called a zero percent loan

so one of the things that you can you

can take this into the bank as they say

in our industry

if somebody's offering you a zero

percent rate it is not as you represent

rings yeah right was there catch in

other words yeah the catch is always

there it's always in a fine print

there's always the pay your loan down

during the promotional period and if you

don't there's $29.99 rates but the trick

typically is it compounds from time of

purchase all the way back it's called a

deferred interest with full recapture

it's the nastiest thing in the world

should have been banned it's been

attempted to get banned but you know

something somehow the industry manages

to weasel its way back into allowing it

in some form and so one of things that

we set out to do from the very beginning

was let's build a true zero percentage

but then what's your catch we don't have

one so these

percent that you would see at a firm is

the only true zero percent that means

that for example if you buy a pallet on

bike people see a zero percent loan how

do you make money then we have the

merchant P down the interest so what's

really going on is the merchant is

transferring some of their margin to the

consumer okay so it's an entirely honest

transaction what it does do though it

allows the merchant to preserve their

pricing integrity they're not

discounting they're helping you pay for

your bike or your mattress or your

whatever is you're buying overtime

without ever having to say the price is

not really the true price but there is

no catch there's no late fee there's no

flip to the different rates and god

forbid there's no deferred interest and

are you wearing a firm t-shirt by the

way always were in a firm t-shirt

Wow okay that's looking pretty good San

Francisco yeah we now have offices in

New York and Pittsburgh as well as San

Francisco so I rotate through my logo

and look how nicely done okay and you

mentioned that you came to this country

as an immigrant from the Ukraine right

and and it's shaped your thinking

obviously when it comes to this company

because you were talking about trying to

get credit and that being difficult how

else did it affect your thinking you

went to the University of Illinois there

being a kid from another country you

know it's the sort of thing that's

really hard to self-examine

so any form of well here's what I did to

the little max it's probably a little

Cesar exaggerated but I think I'm I'm

fairly well known for my outspoken this

in favor of certainly serve certain

types of immigration because I think

what it does to you as an immigrant is

the sense of unlimited opportunity that

just hits you in the face and you go

from hey I just escaped something that

was constraining my ability to be the

best I can be to complete lack of limits

and so I had a an extremely inspiring

teenage years in early 20s I was

surrounded by people that built the

modern Internet so I was at the U of I

as you mentioned on campus in 93 when

mosaic launched so

do you overlap with Marc Andreessen

where were a couple years overlapping

all of us kind of in the computer

science department worked at some time

or another the National Center for

supercomputing applications where mosaic

was developed and the web server was

developed so all the kind of the things

that we take for granted today weren't

around 25 years ago and they were built

by the hands of people that were in my

school kind of I had a front-row seat to

how the future would look like and so I

entered school thinking PGG in computer

science teach be a professor I come from

a long line of advanced degrees and

certainly my family expected me to do

just that and by the time I was wrapping

up junior year like one I'm gonna

hopefully I'm gonna graduate because I

know my parents are gonna murder me if I

don't but the second I'm done with that

I'm gonna just start companies and try

things and so in that sense I think

having an immigrant background gives you

a little bit of a leg up because you're

not afraid of anything we came to the US

with 600 ollars to a family of five and

the expectation was go figure it out

what do you think about President

Trump's policies on the immigration then

I think that policies on skilled

immigration and treatment of foreign

students I don't know if that policy

actually been enacted they've been

talked about a lot but I have a very

strong view on what I think is right I

think we should staple some form of work

permit and maybe a permanent visa to

every advanced degree that we give here

because what is the point of educating

people in fantastic schools from faraway

places if they're going to go back to

their faraway place and better their

country as opposed to the one that gave

them education so I think that's a very

very clear place where I have a strong

point of view I don't doubt that

immigration is extraordinary complex

issue and would certainly from my

faraway vantage point it looks like

people like to bundle skilled

immigration and various forms of refugee

and crises at border of various kinds

and I get it that I will never get it

that's why I'm not in politics right

right but in terms of putting up

impediments for skilled students I mean

happened them they're going to go back

anyway because they want to but to

actually force people to go back

doesn't see me seem to make sense yeah I

think that that's just extremely

extremely short are missed right let's

talk about PayPal because it really was

kind of a moment in time in the history

of Silicon Valley such as it is and it's

become sort of legendary

as I mentioned there's this PayPal mafia

and I want to know you know what is it

about that time and that story that

resonates to this day you know again if

you're in the soup it's hard to tell how

the cooking is being done but I think it

was just an extraordinary time

extraordinary group of people I was very

lucky to be to be at the the founding of

that the I remember the exact date but

shortly after we incorporated Yahoo's

stock price apropos the the chair in

which we said now went down something

like by 90 percent so there the crash of

the the early internet crash the world

was rioting internet business is off we

were sort of looking at ourselves in a

mirror going I did we take the worst

time in history to start a company

having to do with the Internet and so it

was a lot of we're coming in from an

extreme low before we shipped a product

before we did anything and so that was

kind of an interesting background noise

that shaped us we were all super young

and so was everyone around us but in

terms of people who are starting

companies in Silicon Valley at that time

and always really it's sort of the

domain of people have nothing to lose

young or old but just people that are

willing to go headfirst into a pool with

no water but we uh we were surrounded by

people telling us this will never work

I remember going to see someone about

understanding risk and credit card space

and this woman asked me something along

the lines of you know do you have this

in place you know what's your your

customer procedures and I generally held

the line though I was faking it to the

enth degree then at the end she says let

me know so what's your chargeback

management process and something in my

face betrayed the fact that I'm like

what are you talking about oh my god you

don't know what a chargeback is oh honey

you're done yeah I do they're going I

must be so so I think that the fact that

we're so unprepared and the early

success has just emboldened us to serve

you know we couldn't do wrong we we had

to keep on trying and there are plenty

of bombs plenty of things that we are

absolutely doing very bad things we

almost went out of business in numerous

times but the people that's what came

together we're ultimately really good

and who were some of those people who is

the PayPal mafia then I'd say you know

at this point I think by mutual

agreement there's about a hundred

twenty-five co-founders okay but so

obviously Peter and I started the

company up until very early on Reed

Hoffman was our first board member and

then eventually an executive vice

president so he sort of did all the

really kind of a super-advanced BD type

role and strategy people who've heard of

in other contexts people like Steve Chen

and Chad Hurley and Java creme so

eventually cofounders of YouTube of

course Russell Simmons not the rapper

but a slightly less snow and co-founder

of Yelp and Jeremy Stoppelman better

known co-founder of Yelp were both in my

organization on the technology side at

PayPal

started Yelp together a few years later

ken Howry Luke no sick all these guys

eventually wind up in founders fund Elon

Musk

obviously the merger between PayPal and

XCOM gave birth what PayPal really

became it's a long list

it's an amazing group and one of my

favorite things in my last job max was

commissioning that photograph okay I

think you had a little bit to do with

the pointage of them off exactly where

we got all of you guys to dress up a la

The Sopranos yep and took that picture

of you guys and you guys were so awesome

to cooperate and the photograph is just

to my mind epic it is an epic photo

although number of times it reappears in

the press at this point is sort of

borderline embarrassing right but it was

a figure

we were holed up in a real-life Italian

eatery in North Beach which is a

historically Italian neighborhood in San

Francisco and it was not air-conditioned

so the the giant globules of sweat on

all of our faces every L right just yeah

really really well that adds to it I

don't know if that was intentional at

the time Reid looked like he was not

enjoying really really looked I that was

pretty classic so as PayPal went forward

you know it became part of eBay and then

it came out and now it's attached with

venmo and so how has that evolution of

payments proceeded does it make sense to

you and is there still room I mean

you're actually you're of course you're

part of that world again today where

does that all stand so I think the thing

that is worth knowing or keeping in mind

about payments credit lending banking

it's either the largest - a second

largest market in the world there's

there's energy without which we're all

kind of you know I'm not gonna have

cameras to film us but other than that

payments is gargantuan there's no US

credit card outstanding balances right

now are about trillion dollars just give

you a sense for it that's just us it's

not even in the world so and then

volumes of payments going through the

world and now the internet are in many

trailers so there's always room and

every niche every little thing you find

in payments we kind of go wow let that

little thing is broken it could really

use some fixing is inevitably measured

in hundreds of millions of dollars like

the little stuff is hundreds of millions

the bigger opportunities of bigger sort

of ideas to revolutionize things are

always they quickly become trillions and

so I'm personally always very bullish on

any payments Financial Services idea

because the market is so massive because

the infrastructure is so old one of the

interesting things is actually kind of a

neat observation which I don't hear a

lot about but is absolutely true the

first industry to really embrace

computing after so the war machine was

finance so if you look at people like

Amex and people like Citibank like these

really giant of a financial industry you

in the 70s they were stocking up an IBM

system/360 s and asked for hundreds and

you know all these sort of classic big

iron biggish iron computing and that's

where they still have they haven't

really upgraded and so in many ways what

was the early adopter advantage now

became shackles that hold some of the

largest infrastructure players we have

down because they really don't have the

ability to say in a way where they're

all let's build it from scratch or

modern technology with better systems

and so that's why disruption has been so

plentiful in in the space and so yeah I

think the development of you know p2p

e-payments venmo is actually exactly how

PayPal started twenty years ago now and

there's plenty of other entrants and

they're all growing at some ridiculous

pace you know it's not very stripes yeah

they're all these players that when

stripe launched it was basically like

PayPal - the business model because

PayPal arbitrage card payments against

bank payments scribe said the car

payment is enough and everybody myself

included said how you gonna make any

money like the margin is this then and

you know it's okay Tennessee or later

years later it's uh I don't know

whatever it is now thirty billion dollar

company twenty five billion so all these

companies can succeed because the

marketplace if I mean no no guarantees

but there's room for a lot of them it's

just there's a lot of things that can be

done better the opportunities are

plentiful the market is enormous

financial services is generally a market

that naturally goes to multiple winners

there very very few national monopolies

because the markets are internationally

speaking for sure Orkut so large and

very diverse what's very successful here

could not work somewhere else so you

have to be willing to reinvent yourself

or let someone else take the market I

think the most interesting ideas also

emerge when generational divides take

place so Oh 8 was this watershed moment

where whole generation watched their

parents get cleaned or fleeced or

whatever you think they did and so a

whole bunch of young people said

whatever it is my parents I'm not doing

that mortgages that sounds terrifying

I'm not gonna use credit cards that's a

bad idea I'm gonna borrow no money and

use debit cards that's really great

until you've need

by our first car you need to put a

deposit in department so borrowing has

to be reinvented

maybe the origin of a firm is as much in

this idea of let's go clean up borrowing

as it is in answering the question how

will young people buy our money if they

are so actively saying I don't want a

credit card right so that that that's

where but these opportunities are

everywhere I want to ask you about

another group of tech companies one of

the other companies that you founded was

slide which was sold to Google and then

you ended up working at Google for a

while I want to ask you about those big

platform companies like Google like

Facebook and there are a lot of issues

these companies are facing right now

sort of for myriads facets and myriad

size and I'm wondering if you've given

thought to how they can rectify their

problems

should they be regulated should they be

broken up what is your thinking on that

those are hard questions to answer I

think the general the relative measures

of too powerful not powerful enough are

always very hard to maybe they're

certainly extremely powerful in the

absolute sense yes Facebook probably

knows far more about me than I think I

know about me and that I think anybody

should know about me really because

they're an amalgamation of all my

friends knowledge of me and even more so

true of Google Facebook at least there's

some amount of sharing that I do

proactively Google like I met during my

time at Google I met an executive who

likened Google search box to an ear

where's the world's giantest ear and

billions of people come in and whisper

in - it's here you know amazing things

like where do I buy an engagement ring

and also do I have cancer and will I die

and it's a massive responsibility to

hang on to that data and mine it for

signal and figure out how to give the

right answers and the responsibility

that's implicit in what do you show

someone that say do I have cancer you

may push them to a decision that if you

knew what they were gonna do next you

would regret and so in that sense I

think the responsibility on these

companies is enormous

and I'm not sure there's one thing they

can do or anybody outside of them can do

to say well here's how you fix the

problem

at that scale any company of any

industry you're playing with human

condition more than you're playing with

balance sheet so my guess is the first

thing they need to do is probably

recognize internally sort of take very

very seriously

that what they're playing with is a lot

more than their profit and loss and

features and I think that's a weighty

weighty set of responsibilities my guess

is they're gonna end up facing a lot of

regulatory scrutiny because our

lawmakers and and others are pretty good

at dealing with a human condition and

thinking in terms of the human condition

while tech companies are actually much

better thinking in terms of growth and

features and kind of detaching

themselves a little bit from what people

really really experience when the user

products actually not to shift to a firm

suddenly but one of the that I did very

early on influenced by this experience

of being inside the belly at one of the

largest companies that Silicon Valley

are produced I try to write down our

core values which I'd never done before

so this whole notion of core values and

what do we stand for you know at PayPal

if I'd said that I probably would have

been sort of chuckled at because we're

all super young and we just wanted to

grow it to build a great company and the

morality of it all was something that we

cared about but as a side effect to look

to go build a great business with a

formost kind of backwards or the other

way around where I said I'm gonna write

down our core values I'm not gonna write

a line of code until I know what it's

for and we sort of played with this in

that and with my co-founders and a bunch

of early people and ultimately wrote

down five things but the first one of

these is people come first mm-hmm and I

think you have to decide that you feel

that before you start writing code and

that's probably what's gonna have to

happen to a lot of these large platforms

that have not necessarily been living

new people come first value or their

version of the same idea but don't we're

live in extremely interesting times I

think the fact that these companies

wield an extraordinary out of power is

is starting to really reveal itself in

big ways you mentioned law makers you

were on the board of the CFPB and Mick

Mulvaney disband

that what was your never been fired

until until that time what was your take

I really enjoyed that process it was the

firing part yeah the firing part was

uneventful I called into a conference

line and they said hey the board's been

disbanded

thank you for a service yeah know what I

know it feels like it was my box you

know I need my but it was an unpaid

position so there was no no boxer

service but the process of hearing from

stakeholders from everywhere like really

really everywhere it was amazing so and

I live in my own little insular Silicon

Valley world they're people that I think

are doing a really great job sticking to

their moral principles and doing the

right thing and people I think are

probably walking the gray line and

people I think really should not be

building products that they're building

and you know I don't make any secrets of

who they are since I'm willing to put my

opinion out there in public but it's

very different when you sit down around

a table with people that represent or

advocate for people from truly

impoverished communities people that are

unable to make their mortgage payments

and are facing repossession of whatever

property that they have people that are

fighting with some local agency that was

supposed to stand behind a mortgage and

there's now bankrupt and all the sort of

like the reality of life in places that

are not like Silicon Valley where we all

get paid sick digit salaries or higher

and these problems don't really come up

and detail a conversation was a sort of

an amazing window into how this country

really works and so if you didn't have

this sense of you know people come first

you walked out of there every time

feeling like wow like the world is a

complicated place and not everybody

lives in San Francisco in New York City

what do you think about people like

Alexandria acasio Cortez who are looking

to address wealth and income inequality

by for instance raising taxes on rich

people I think in general what has

struck me as amusing and to some extent

tragic is that there's not a whole lot

of people that are pounding the table

for some form of socialism that lived in

a socialist setting having grown up tour

spending my first 16 years in a

socialist country from personal

experience the redistribution does not

work because people doing the

redistribution somehow always get a lot

more and that you know that's almost too

trite of a characterization but I'm not

a fan of significant march into

significant redistribution because I've

seen how it fails and it works for a

while because you're excited or that you

know people are were excited right after

the Soviet revolution in the teens of

last century but fast forward to the 50s

and the place was going downhill fast

and by the 90s there were tanks on the

streets because we couldn't couldn't

contain the populace from tearing the

country apart so I'm not a I'm not a fan

I'm not a fan of the blunt let's just

give the government all the power and

all the money and then everything's

gonna be okay

having said that I think you know a lot

of the folks in social democratic

movement and various forms of serve a

very progressive parties that or

movements that we have in the US are

kind of speaking to the same thing that

I observed at this apv board the

increment equality the desperate nature

of life and a lot of these communities

is very real

so I don't think it's a my point isn't

to ignore or to push it away just think

the conversation could be more civilized

and a little bit less flippant and I

remain a big believer in conscious

capitalism or more thoughtful capitalism

as way of figuring out how to contribute

to elevation of people who have been

left behind or who are being left behind

me not having short term goals I mean

just having broader goals than this

quarters Pinel for instance for

companies for sure yeah I think so as an

engineer any of them to go back full

circle I write code writing code is all

about

testing and iterating and I think one of

the things that we do a lot of is debate

and not enough of his experiment the

most exciting news I've ever heard

whether I believe in it or not on the

addressing poverty is the fact that

there's a bunch of places in the US now

try universal basic income I've no idea

a few bi is a solution or not in fact

there have been some reasons to believe

that it's not but we want to know if it

works here or not until we try it right

so just having you know let's ship a

bunch of features that try to make the

world a better place for folks that have

been left behind observe it for whatever

number of years months quarters that it

takes and then iterate on it and I think

to me the two big areas are figuring out

how to train people to prepare them for

the next iteration of what the workforce

will require I'm a big believer that

jobs are not disappearing but they're

being replaced and I think that's

something very important and for younger

version of our future workforce just

investing very heavily into education a

special education of people that without

some form of help will end up on the

disadvantaged side of society I think

that's really really important and my my

hope is that instead of spending too

many cycles debating what is the perfect

solution in creating what looks like

partisan gridlock

just iterating on good ideas that you

know there's no shortage of papers and

academics and sociologists and

economists that all have a really really

strong view usually backed up by good

data that we then don't even bother

testing we just sort of go right into

debate of why it couldn't work so try

more talk less okay on that note we're

gonna wrap things up Max Levchin CEO of

a firm thanks so much for joining us

today

thank you I'm Andy serwer you've been

watching influencers we'll see you next

time

you

[Music]