Peter Hitchens condemns 'appalling and disgraceful' George Galloway on his Holocaust comments

Summary

The video transcript captures a heated discussion revolving around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, George Galloway's controversial comments equating actions in Gaza to the Holocaust, and the complex dynamics of UK and US politics. Prominent figures Peter Hitchens and Jerry Baker engage in a thought-provoking debate, dissecting Galloway's statements, Israel's response in Gaza, and the role of Islam in left-wing politics. Additionally, they delve into the legal battles surrounding Donald Trump's eligibility for the 2024 US presidential election, speculating on potential surprise Democratic candidates and Joe Biden's capabilities as president.

Takeaways

• 😲 George Galloway's comparison of the Gaza conflict to the Holocaust is considered outrageous and disgraceful by political commentators.
• 🤷‍♂️ There is confusion and lack of consensus on where to stand regarding the Israel-Palestine conflict, with people either supporting Israel unconditionally or allying with conservative Islamic views.
• ⚖️ While some actions by Israel in Gaza are condemned as wrong and disproportionate, it is possible to support Israel's right to exist while criticizing specific policies.
• 🇺🇸 The 2024 US presidential race is seen as a foregone conclusion, with Trump expected to be the Republican nominee and Biden the Democratic nominee, despite concerns about Biden's age and effectiveness.
• ⚖️ Legal efforts to remove Trump from the presidential ballot due to the Capitol riots were rejected by the Supreme Court, which ruled unanimously that states do not have the authority to do so.
• 🤔 There is speculation about whether the Democrats might replace Biden as their candidate at a later stage, given concerns about his age and performance.
• 🔥 Trump's ability to galvanize opposition and legal challenges against him often backfires and ends up benefiting him politically.
• 💥 The efforts to prevent Trump from being on the ballot are seen as counterproductive and elevating him to a martyr status, reinforcing his claims of being a victim of a 'witch hunt'.
• 👴 Polls indicate growing concerns about Biden's age and effectiveness, with a majority of his own supporters from 2020 now saying he is too old to be an effective president.
• 🤷‍♀️ There is uncertainty about who is truly running the country, with questions about whether Biden is fully in control or relying heavily on a supporting staff structure.

Q & A

What is Peter Hitchens's view on comparing the actions in Gaza with the Holocaust?

Peter Hitchens finds the comparison of the actions in Gaza with the Holocaust by individuals like George Galloway to be outrageous and disgraceful, emphasizing that such comparisons are entirely unacceptable.

What does Peter Hitchens say about the current state of support for Israel?

Peter Hitchens notes that the spectrum of support for Israel has shifted, with people who previously might not have shown strong support for Israel now vocally supporting its government's actions. He personally condemns the bombardment of Gaza, differentiating his stance from those who uncritically support Israel's actions.

How does the script describe the political landscape in relation to Israel and Palestine?

The script describes a polarized political landscape, where individuals are seen as either uncritically supporting Israel or aligning with a faction of the left that allies with socially conservative Islamic viewpoints, creating confusion for those who seek a more nuanced or moderate position.

What are Jerry Baker's thoughts on Donald Trump's legal challenges and political resistance?

Jerry Baker believes that the numerous legal challenges and attempts to disqualify Donald Trump from ballots only help Trump by reinforcing his narrative of being a victim of a witch hunt, suggesting that these efforts inadvertently support his political agenda.

What was Peter Hitchens's reaction to the unanimous Supreme Court decision about Donald Trump?

Peter Hitchens expressed unease about the unanimous decision by the Supreme Court to reject attempts to remove Donald Trump from the ballot, wondering about the implications of such a rare consensus among the justices.

What speculation does Jerry Baker discuss regarding the Democratic nomination for the upcoming election?

Jerry Baker speculates about the possibility of the Democratic party introducing a surprise candidate to stand against Donald Trump, given the perceived weakness of current potential nominees and the desire to find a viable alternative.

What concerns are raised about Joe Biden's candidacy in the script?

Concerns are raised about Joe Biden's age and effectiveness as president, with polling indicating that a significant portion of his previous supporters now view him as too old to be an effective leader.

How does the script address the issue of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party?

The script discusses efforts by the Labour Party, under Kia Starmer, to address and reform its image concerning allegations of anti-Semitism that were associated with the party during Jeremy Corbyn's leadership.

What is the perspective on George Galloway's political stance and actions?

George Galloway is portrayed as a polarizing figure who, despite being recognized for his intelligence, often directs it towards what are seen as the wrong ends, with his actions and statements generating controversy and considered by some as dangerous.

What does Peter Hitchens say about the concept of bombing as a solution in conflict situations?

Peter Hitchens criticizes the idea of using bombing in populated areas as a solution, arguing that it is not only morally wrong but also ineffective in addressing the underlying issues or defeating the ideas behind the conflict.

Outlines

00:00

🌍 Political Polarization and Super Tuesday Apathy

The discussion opens with criticism towards George Galloway's comparison of actions in Gaza to the Holocaust, describing it as outrageous and disgraceful. The narrative highlights the difficulty of finding a middle ground in modern politics, especially concerning Israel's policies under Benjamin Netanyahu. It touches upon the polarizing political spectrum, where the right staunchly supports Israel, and some on the left align with conservative Islamic views. The script also covers the lack of enthusiasm for Super Tuesday, seen as a foregone conclusion with Trump and Biden as the presumed nominees. Despite poor polling for Biden, there's speculation about his potential stepping down. The segment ends on the anticipation of a discussion about the upcoming general election and its key issues, including a focus on Muslim voters and civil liberties.

05:02

🔍 George Galloway's Political Influence and the State of UK Politics

This segment delves into George Galloway's success in the Rochdale by-election and his controversial stance on issues like Israel and Islam. It discusses Galloway's intelligence and political astuteness despite disagreement with his approaches and views. The narrative explores the complexity of UK politics, especially within the Labour Party, and Galloway's impact on it. Despite skepticism about Galloway's apocalyptic language comparing current times to 1940, the script highlights the significant Muslim vote in Rochdale, pointing out the challenges Labour faces with its voter base and the potential implications for future elections.

10:04

🤔 Political Divisions and the Gaza Conflict

This paragraph addresses the deeply polarized views on Israel's actions in Gaza, contrasting the support for Israel with criticisms of its military actions. It discusses the challenge of supporting Israel while condemning its tactics in Gaza, amidst the broader context of polarized political views where one is often forced to pick a side. The script critiques extreme comparisons made by figures like George Galloway and discusses the difficulty of finding rational discourse in a highly polarized environment. The conversation also touches on the strange alliances formed in politics, where traditional left-wing values seem to align with conservative Islamic philosophies.

15:06

📜 Reflecting on Israel's Response to Attacks and Political Narratives

This segment reflects on Israel's military response to attacks and the strategic mistakes it might have made. The discussion argues that Israel missed an opportunity to highlight its existence's justification due to the hatred against Jews, instead of focusing on military retaliation. The segment criticizes the use of legal systems to tackle political disagreements in the U.S., noting a unanimous Supreme Court decision preventing Donald Trump's removal from ballots. It questions whether such judicial unanimity suggests an avoidance of controversy rather than a clear stance, and contemplates the potential for the Democratic Party to present a surprise candidate against Trump.

20:06

🇺🇸 U.S. Political Dynamics and Speculations on Biden's Candidacy

This paragraph explores the speculations around President Joe Biden's potential to run for re-election, considering his age and effectiveness. It discusses the challenges in replacing a sitting president who does not wish to step down and the impact of legal challenges on Donald Trump's political fortunes. The narrative questions the strategy of using legal avenues to disqualify Trump from ballots, suggesting it only strengthens his victim narrative. The script also ponders the Democratic Party's strategy for the upcoming election, hinting at the possibility of introducing a new candidate to challenge Trump.

25:06

🔮 Predictions and Reflections on U.S. Political Landscape

The final segment wraps up with further speculation on the U.S. political landscape, focusing on the difficulties of displacing an incumbent president like Joe Biden without his willingness to step aside. It reflects on Biden's waning support among his previous voters due to concerns over his age and effectiveness, raising questions about who truly governs the country. The script anticipates the discussion on the Republicans overseas event, Super Tuesday, and the potential surprises in the run-up to the election. It emphasizes the unpredictability of political developments and the strategic mistakes that could benefit Donald Trump's campaign.

Keywords

💡Gaza

Gaza refers to the Gaza Strip, a self-governing Palestinian territory bordering Israel and Egypt. In the video, Gaza is discussed extensively in the context of the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The speakers debate the actions of Israel in bombing Gaza, with some criticizing it as a disproportionate response and others defending Israel's right to retaliate against Hamas, the militant group that controls Gaza and has launched attacks on Israel.

💡Holocaust

The Holocaust refers to the genocide of European Jews carried out by Nazi Germany during World War II. In the video, one of the speakers (Peter Hitchens) strongly criticizes George Galloway for comparing the situation in Gaza to the Holocaust, calling it 'outrageous' and 'disgraceful.' Hitchens argues that while he disagrees with Israel's actions in Gaza, equating them to the systematic murder of millions of Jews is an unacceptable and offensive comparison.

💡Anti-Semitism

Anti-Semitism refers to hostility, prejudice, or discrimination against Jews. The video discusses the issue of anti-Semitism within the UK Labour Party, with Jerry Baker stating that party leader Keir Starmer had tried to distance the party from the anti-Semitism associated with former leader Jeremy Corbyn. However, Baker argues that Galloway's recent comments about Gaza and Muslims suggest that anti-Semitic sentiments still exist within certain factions of the party.

💡Israel

Israel is a country in the Middle East and a central focus of the video's discussion. The speakers debate Israel's actions in Gaza, with some defending Israel's right to exist and defend itself, while others criticize its policies and treatment of Palestinians. The video also touches on the broader issue of Western public opinion towards Israel, with concerns raised about Israel losing support in the United States and the United Nations.

💡Insurrection

In the context of the video, 'insurrection' refers to the events of January 6th, 2021, when a mob of supporters of former President Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol building in an attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election. The video discusses the legal challenges surrounding Trump's involvement in the insurrection and whether it should disqualify him from running for president again in 2024.

💡Super Tuesday

Super Tuesday is a significant day in the US presidential primary election process, where a large number of states hold their primary elections or caucuses on the same day. The video discusses the upcoming Super Tuesday in the context of the 2024 presidential election, with speculation about how the results might impact the Republican and Democratic nominees.

💡Conservative

In the context of the video, 'conservative' refers to the right-wing political ideology and the Conservative Party in the UK. The video discusses the perception that the Conservative Party under Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has leaned further to the right, contrasting with the left-wing ideology represented by figures like George Galloway.

💡Supreme Court

The Supreme Court refers to the highest court in the United States. The video discusses a recent Supreme Court ruling that rejected attempts by the state of Colorado to remove Donald Trump from the 2024 presidential ballot due to his alleged involvement in the January 6th insurrection. The unanimous ruling is seen as a victory for Trump and a significant legal precedent.

💡Impeachment

Impeachment is the process of bringing charges against a civil officer of government for crimes alleged to have been committed while in office. The video mentions that Donald Trump was impeached by the House of Representatives for his role in the January 6th insurrection, but was ultimately acquitted by the Senate, allowing him to run for president again in 2024.

💡Biden

Joe Biden is the current President of the United States. The video discusses speculation about Biden's age and cognitive abilities, with polls suggesting a significant portion of his supporters from 2020 now believe he is too old to be an effective president. There is speculation about whether Biden will ultimately step down or be replaced as the Democratic nominee for the 2024 election.

Highlights

George Galloway comparing the actions in Gaza with the Holocaust is outrageous and disgraceful.

It's perfectly possible to be a supporter of Israel and also criticize the policies of Benjamin Netanyahu as wrong and a mistake.

There is confusion about where a normal thinking person fits in the Israel-Palestine debate, as people are either blindly pro-Israel or align themselves with the socially conservative philosophy of Islam on the left.

Both the Republican and Democratic party's presidential races are essentially already over, with Trump and Biden as presumptive nominees.

Attention is turning to the general election, with polling looking terrible for Biden and Trump seeming to get stronger.

There is speculation that Biden may step down and someone else may step in as the Democratic nominee, though it is considered unlikely.

Galloway's claim that the next election will be about Muslims and civil liberties is seen as a way to exploit Labor's weakness and appeal to Muslim voters.

While supporting Israel, Peter Hitchens condemns the bombardment of populated cities like Gaza as unacceptable behavior.

The British political spectrum is completely shattered, with no clear alignment on issues like Israel and Palestine.

Jerry Baker argues that Israel's actions in Gaza are a response to Hamas' attacks and its use of civilian shields, putting responsibility for civilian deaths primarily on Hamas.

Peter Hitchens believes Israel missed an opportunity to gain Western public opinion by not clearly stating that the conflict is fundamentally about the hatred of Jews, which is the reason for Israel's existence.

The unanimous Supreme Court ruling against removing Trump from the ballot only helps Trump and reinforces his claims of being victimized.

Peter Hitchens wonders if the Democratic side is planning to find a surprise candidate other than Biden to stand against Trump.

Jerry Baker speculates that it is very hard to remove a president who doesn't want to go, and Biden may not want to step down despite his dire situation.

A New York Times/Sienna College poll showed that 61% of Biden's 2020 voters now say he is too old to be an effective president.

Transcripts

the appalling statements of of people

such as George Galloway comparing the

the however wrong the actions are in

Gaza comparing them with the with the

Holocaust I think that's just outrageous

disgraceful it's perfectly possible for

people in civilized politics who are

supporters of Israel and believe that it

it should continue to exist and be

defended to say equally this policy

adopted by by Benjamin Netanyahu is

wrong has been from the start a mistake

as I've said but I don't get a hearing

for that because you're either at the

moment apparently on the one side or the

other yeah

you the new right which says Israel can

do no wrong uh or you're or or you're on

this strange area of the left where

where where people who are socially and

and morally and politically on the left

Ally themselves with Islam which is in

fact in general a highly socially

conservative philosophy I can't work out

where the normal thinking person fits in

here and I again I look on it with with

with some confusion when I I cannot be

on either side is there a tickle in

everyone's tummy ahead of super Tuesday

Jerry or does it feel like a foregone

conclusion I wonder what the appetite

for it is over

there no uh I don't think anybody's

excited it's uh it's it's the flattest

super Tuesday I can recall actually

because I don't think we've ever had a

situation like this where the both

parties um races are essentially already

over we know you know Trump's going to

be the nominee for the Republicans and

Biden's going to be the nominee for the

Democrats I think what is interesting is

I think attention is already turning to

the general election and I think the the

polling right now for Joe Biden is so

terrible and but Trump seems to be

getting stronger that I think there is

an interesting Buzz around how bad is it

for Biden Biden's obviously also got his

to the union speech on Thursday and is

and and once again speculation that

maybe Biden kind of steps down somebody

else steps in that's picking up again I

think it's very unlikely but I think

that's where the interest is rather than

definitely worth talking about is it B

New York Times Sienna College reading

polling that I was reading the other

evening we'll talk about talk a bit more

about that we've got a tickle in our

tummy ahead of CA Tuesday because we

have been let out of the studio tomorrow

we're at Republicans overseas it's an

event in central London uh so we'll be

you know seeking the opinions not just

of super Tuesday but also how the

Republicans carry this forward and what

what a you know presidency a second term

under Donald Trump might look like so

all that's going on for us tomorrow

Peter Hitchens joins us as well this

evening at M on EC colist and author and

you are a great lover of not just UK

politics but American politics as well

Peter so I'm sure you'll be keeping your

eyes open ahead of tomorrow's Super

Cheese day well I go far as a lover of

American politics I find it immensely

frustrating and annoying uh but yeah a

comment I lived in Washington DC for two

years and I got so annoyed with American

politics that I responded by going off

and traveling around the country as as

far away and as often as I could uh I've

never really been one of those people

who gets particularly engaged with it

and at the moment I find it immensely

frustrating and annoying because there's

nobody it seems to me that anybody

intelligent or thoughtful can identify

with who's taking part in it and you see

a a a great country once a very

civilized country apparently determined

to to if not to destroy itself to do

itself immense damage and it's it's it's

annoying to have to watch that far away

we will um speak to Jerry Who's over

there um living over there and uh

immersed amongst it whether it really is

um as gloomy as all that uh in a short

while if you're listening to this and

you want to get involved with our two

big brains Peter Hitchens and Jerry

Baker you can get involved whatsa uh 0

triple3 uh 03

2353 it's free convenient super easy and

it comes straight through to us here in

the studio so you can WhatsApp us with

your thoughts and you can also text us

in the normal way 87 trouble to start

your message with the word times now

let's let's let's focus on UK politics

first of all because the leader of the

Workers Party George Galloway he of

course won the Rochdale byelection he

took his seat in the House of Commons

today uh he spoke after being sworn in

as an MP and criticized the lack of

leadership in government I think that we

stand at a very dangerous Crossroads in

our country's Affairs perhaps as

dangerous as any

since the uh Summer and Autumn of 1940

41 and there's no Mr Churchill in this

picture there's no one it seems able to

step forward and steady the ship of

state and begin to Rally unite uh our

people okay you also gave his thoughts

on which key issues will dominate this

year's election the next election will

be about most Muslims and will be about

the taking away of civil liberties in

this country it sunak last hope I pray

for the social peace of our country that

it's a foron hope George gay there he's

he's also said uh that he um is after

Angela Rena's Aston underly constituency

it neighbors his Rochdale one he feels

that there's a majority there that he

can bite into and has encouraged the

former labor leader Jeremy Corbin to

launch and lead a coalition of social

Progressive campaigners to contest seats

at the general election Peter Hitchens

let's come across to you you may not

like uh George Galloway the person but I

think it's important to look at what

he's saying and whether there are grains

of Truth there that we should think

about what do you make of

it well I've had many incars with George

Galloway mainly actually in TV and radio

Studios and I've never doubted that he's

an intelligent person it's always

distressed me that he often turns his

intelligence to what seem to me to be

wrong ends and says things which are

both foolish and and in some ways

dangerous and I dislike that intensely

and I think he does how should I put it

rather more harm than good I think the

labor party is in a bigger mess than it

appears to be I don't think George

Galloway is the best person to remind us

of that or to put it right I think that

he's he's he's certainly found a very

grave weakness in st's position and he's

exploiting it like anything as he always

does and he's a very astute and clever

campaigner and he succeeded in Rochdale

when a lot of people thought that he

wouldn't and you have to take that

seriously but to convert that a

byelection results into some kind of

national party or national challenge is

probably uh a a great deal more than he

or anybody else can achieve and as for

his slightly apocalyptic language about

it being the same as 1940 I think that's

just gibberish

um Jerry what do you make of this from

afar George Galloway you know clearly

standing on the left we've heard a lot

about the conservative party leaning to

the right we've seen uh Kia starma try

and uh remain as Centrist as he possibly

can and still try and satisfy his MPS

which is sort of a work in progress in

some areas anyway but here you have a

candidate a socialist candidate clearly

on the left putting that perspective

forward and I want wonder I wonder

whether we haven't heard enough of that

here in this country where we need to

entertain the right the center and the

left and we haven't done a lot for the

left well it's ironic isn't it uh Kama

spent couple of years several years sort

of trying to exate the stain of

anti-Semitism from his party that was

very much associated with Jeremy Corbin

you know his predecessor and I think on

the whole did a reasonable job of

persuading people has done a reasonable

job persuading people that the labor

party had gone horribly and too many too

many anti- seites in in the party and

the party had reformed itself only to

discover that of course the the the

anti- seite sort of termites um you know

are there and ready to um to undermine

him I mean this I mean I think this idea

first of all I agree with Peter about

what um Galloway said in an absurd

notion that it's 1940 all over again it

does wa make you wonder by the way if

George Galloway had been around in 1940

which side he would have been on but

given given some of the things um that

he says and for him to invoke Winston

Churchill is going to you know produce

sort of guffa of laughter I think from

from anyone who knows either him or

knows anything about British history in

Winston Churchill but you know this idea

that he's putting about this next

election is going to be about Muslims um

I mean if he means it's going to be

about people like him who say things uh

about Israel um that Israel's committing

a genocide for example or whatever or or

indeed I think I heard him I think I

read somewhere that he'd actually

had the absolute shame and dishonor to

say to describe what's going on in in in

Gaza as a holocaust as another as

another holocause yeah um mean if I mean

if he's you know but but I think it does

show the if if that's all true it's

despicable but it does show I do think

labor has a problem I think there are a

very significant number of um Muslim

voters in a lot not by any means the

majority not by any means perhaps

anything more than a small minority

strong yeah but strongly strongly uh as

we saw I know there's a very low turnout

in Rochdale and all of that and he

probably will lose the general election

but but but but but but are willing to

come out and vote for someone who says

things like that and that does show you

know Labor's problem Labor's going to

win the next election with a sizable

majority but it looks like it's going to

have a significant number of MPS who are

you know you do you say on the left Kate

but I mean these are again this is a um

you know this is this is this is a

strand of opinion yeah that is

powerfully very very has a very very

distinct take on Islam and on the Middle

East in particular and I think that is

going to be a bit of a problem and we

don't have to associate those with the

left I do associate George Galloway as

you know as on the left very very

clearly on the left polarizing so

sometimes he's a socialist he's very

clear about what he stands for uh

Muslims don't have to Veer to the left

but they do want to have a voice and

there are other people who aren't Muslim

who also want to have their voices while

I worked on Friday morning after that

election result was announced in

Rochdale he was of course you know won

that fairly George Galloway with his

message uh that he was taking the fight

over Gaza to Kia starma in his in his

Winner's speech he said this is for Gaza

he was really clear about how he felt

about that the Muslim population here in

the UK 6.5% but I think he's got to not

just talk about this is for Muslims I

think he's got to talk about other

people who aren't Muslim but who believe

and they were plenty of them texting in

and whatsapping in I mean and absolutely

tons of them actually messaging in on

Friday morning saying good I'm glad

someone's finally clearly saying that

that there is something awful going on

in Gaza and that Israel's being too

harsh someone who's been really clear

okay they might not call it a genocide

I'm sure that they won't but that that

uh enough is enough Israel has gone too

far in its respon in in its response and

it's disproportionate yes Peter well

here's the thing the whole spectrum of

British Politics as it once was is

completely shattered nobody knows where

they stand or anything I for instance I

I look at all this with a great deal of

confusion for many years I've thought

that I was probably one of the most

dogged and determined supporters and

Defenders of Israel in the country I

suddenly find myself surrounded by

people on the right who probably a year

ago couldn't have found Israel on a map

who are tremendously supportive of the

of the actions of the current Israeli

government in bombarding G Gaza now

although I am a a very strong supporter

of Israel I think the bombardment of

Gaza and the in general the bombardment

of populated cities is completely

unacceptable behavior and entirely wrong

and I condemn it with that hesitation

but I absolutely uh do not confuse that

position with the appalling statements

of of people such as George Galloway

comparing the the however wrong the

actions are in Gaza comparing them with

the with the Holocaust I think that's

just outrageous disgraceful it's

perfectly possible for people in

civilized politics who are supporters of

Israel and believe that it it should

continue to exist and be defended to say

equally this policy adopted by by

Benjamin Netanyahu is wrong has been

from the start a mistake as I've said

but I get a hearing for that uh because

you're either at the moment apparently

on the one side or the other yeah

you the new right which says Israel can

do no wrong uh or you're or or you're on

this strange area of the left where

where where people who are socially and

and morally and politically on the left

Ally themselves with Islam which is in

fact in general a highly socially

conservative philosophy I can't work out

where the normal thinking person fits in

here and I again I look on it with with

some

confusion I I cannot be on either side

and I don't think I could be the only

person who looks to this way I'm neither

on Mr M Mr Galloway's side nor K st's

side

yeah it's that it's that none of the

above uh situation none of the below as

it as I wish it were on

Jerry below I mean can I just say I'll

say two quick things one I do support

what Israel is doing I think it is

um Israel was attacked on October 7th uh

by by an organization which is which

which runs Gaza which uses Gaza as its

base which hides among the civilian of

Gaza the responsibility for the for the

deaths of civilians in Gaza lies

primarily with Hamas if they hadn't

carried out October 7th what they did on

October 7th and if they hadn't um hidden

themselves among and if they would

simply you know if they if they would

hand over the hostages which they took

and abs you know many of them they've

murdered but the ones that they haven't

murdered if they would hand the

remaining remaining hostages over agree

for for the first time in their history

that Israel has a right to exist and

stop um you know their constant attacks

on Israeli civilians then they would be

then this war would be at an end

instantly there would be no no further

need for it but let me just say one

other very quick thing about Galloway I

know we shouldn't waste too much time on

him but it's incredibly ironic to hear

George Galloway talk about the standing

up for Muslims when he literally well

almost literally kissed the rings of um

of two men who have probably murdered

more Muslims multiple times more Muslims

than than Israel has killed uh in its

entire existence that's of course Saddam

Hussein and Bashar Assad who between

them have killed literally millions of

millions of their own people who of

course promly Muslims so this these

crocodile tears that George Galloway uh

deploys for his own political benefit I

find utterly utterly deplorable look um

can I just can just make a point Kate

one last Point October the 7th and it's

this is the ton point that what what

Israel has done in response to O 7 isn't

is is not just very seriously wrong it's

also a mistake now it would have been

very difficult that it wouldn't have

been impossible for Israel to say this

after October the 7th to stand there and

say look this is what our enemies have

done to us this is nothing to do with

our failure to negotiate a two-state

solution this is nothing to do with the

treatment we we we we give to people in

the West Bank this is nothing to do with

anything of that kind what has been

proven by this attack on o 7th is that

we have people living right next to us

who hate us because we're Jews and that

is why they have done this atrocity and

this illustrates something which has

been forgotten by much of the world

really since since the 1960s that that

is why Israel exists and by holding and

staying their hand at that point and

saying this is this is not about

anything other than than the hatred of

Jews which is the reason why why we

exist Israel could have reached a gain

towards the Western public opinion which

it is losing it is losing the support of

Western public opinion rapidly I think

in the United States now to the point

where it cannot in future necessarily

rely on the enormous support both in

military terms and in United Nations

security Council terms which has kept it

safe I think this was a very grave

mistake it's all very well saying yes of

course hamus no doubt that the J Baker

like me has been to Gaza and seen how

it's run has met people there who

actually loathe being run by Hamas and

who are who are now suffering hamus is

not suffering particularly and doesn't

much care if it does its leadership is

in Qatar anyway the by bombarding in

Gaza they haven't punished Hamas they P

punished the people of Gaza and as

anyone who's watched that fantastic film

The Battle of algers knows you cannot

defeat an idea with Armed Force it

simply will never work and even if you

could even if as Israel has failed to do

you could defeat Hamas militarily on the

in Gaza and they haven't done that and

even if you could have saved the

hostages which they plainly have not

done then you would still have the

problem at the end that you would have

even if it were not hamus you would have

Gaza a strong and continuing

resistance I'm going have to leave it

there Peter I'm going to have to leave

it there otherwise we'll never get on to

any other discussion points you've both

been fascinating on this I'm enjoying

hearing what you've got to say uh we'll

talk Donald Trump that's coming up in

just a moment here on the Evening

Edition Peter Hitchens and Jerry Baker

with us Peter Hitchens the mail on

Sunday columnist and author and Jerry

Baker as well Times columnist and editor

at large of the Wall Street Journal uh

let's talk Donald Trump then the US

super Supreme Court has rejected

Colorado State's attempts to remove

Donald Trump from the ballot for US

president he's been restored then for

the uh primary takes place tomorrow the

court rejected claims that he was

accountable for the capital riots in

2021 more widely it means that states

now have no authority to remove him from

the presidential ballot uh in 2024 in

November this year um uh due to the

Insurrection or due to an accusation

that he was responsible for Insurrection

um Donald Trump I know has spoken uh

after the ruling today I think I'm

interested to hear from you Jerry first

of all what about those people in the

states who say but this isn't fair um

the legal system is is unfair it means

that a man who incited an Insurrection

who said time and time again that it

wasn't his fault that he didn't

encourage things people who don't

believe that point people who feel that

Donald Trump is divisive uh and is you

know wrong in what he's standing for

what do you say to those people who say

this isn't fair this isn't what what US

politics should be about he's a crook

I'd say the United States has a

Constitution and the law is enforced

according to the Constitution the it's

ironic you say you know Donald Trump has

been divisive and terrible for the

country has actually managed for one of

the very few certainly high-profile

political cases actually managed to

unite the entire Supreme Court of the

United I hav't said that by the way I'm

saying what about what about

people completely it's not you but but

you know that was a there are six um

Republican appointed justices on the

Supreme Court and three Democrat

appointed justices on the Supreme Court

on big political issues and

constitutional issues they sometimes

they quite often differ on this they

were nine to zero the three liberal

Progressive justices one appointed by

Joe Biden to appointed by um by Barack

Obama uh all agreed with with the others

that this was a this was a ridiculous

effort that that states do not under the

Constitution states do not have the

right to determine whether or not

someone could can can can be on the

national ballot for the election on the

grounds of that particular Amendment of

the Constitution which was established

which was written uh and imp and written

into law after the after the Civil War

look what I'd say Kate more broadly is

this that you know Donald Trump just

whatever one thinks of Donald Trump and

you know he faces many more legal

challenges yet and by the way he'll

probably unite the court court against

him in the next case that is that the

Court Supreme Court's considering which

is whether or not he has presidential

immunity from prosecution that way we'll

go 90 against him so there is you know

there there is there is Broad consensus

here on one of the one of the outward

are the the core principles of the law

what I'd say about is that Trump just

has this ability extraordinary ability

to um animate people against him and to

make them do things that actually in the

end rebound to their disadvantage and to

his Advantage this CA this case that

that Colorado this this attempt that

Colorado had to try to to kick him off

the ballot and few other states have

tried it too was always an

extraordinarily Longshot implausible and

as we've now seen unconstitutional thing

to do and they just hand Donald Trump

these victories it's going to be the

same with so many of these legal cases

he faces this prosecution uh in Georgia

right now where the prosecutor is under

tremendous pressure and investigation as

to whether or not she behaved improperly

she May will end up that case may will

end up going nowhere the case he faces

here in New York City in New York City

uh is a ridiculous case most lawyers

would agree um that has absolutely no

basis whatsoever in in federal law but

it's being brought here at the state

level and then there are other cases

that have been that the two other big

cases that he faces are obviously

relating to um you know his handling of

documents and another case relating to

the overthrow of the attempt to overturn

the election look I think what Donald

Trump did after November the after

November the 3D last year and before and

up to AB including January the 6th well

in the last election was terrible was

indefensible he should have been

impeached he was imp beached he should

have been convicted and removed from

office but those are the Constitutional

remedies that there is a constitutional

remedy there when somebody behaves like

that uh he was impeached by the House of

Representatives the Senate then hears a

trial and it declined to convict him in

my view that was a mistake but that's

once that's done that's it those are the

remedies that the constitution give you

for that kind of a behavior and if the

American if they're represented the

American people through their

representatives in the Senate didn't do

that then that I'm sorry that's the law

so now we've got to do so instead of

coming up with all of these these rather

sort of um uh Barack uh interpretations

of the law to try and get him off the

ballot or get him disqualified those are

the that the law is there and is very

very clearly there and by doing this and

this is what is tragic for those who

people who don't want Donald Trump to be

reelected by going through these Extreme

Measures to try to prevent him from

being on the ballot they only help him

in the end they elevate him to a kind of

Marty status they reinforce the uh

message that he gives that he's being

victimized that he's the victim of a

Witch Hunt these they are making

terrible terrible mistakes in doing this

they are only helping Trump in doing

this whereas where they should leave

this it is a political matter it should

be left to the politic to to to the

representatives and ultimately to the

people to decide whether or not he's fit

for office

Peter Well I completely agree with Jerry

Baker that these court cases do nothing

but help Donald Trump I think there's

been a kind of disease in the United

States really since the days of Richard

Nixon where people try and obstruct and

get rid of political figures they don't

like through the legal system rather

than through the democratic system I

think it's done a lot of damage

continues to do so but on the other hand

I have a slightly uneasy feeling about

an absolutely unanimous verdict from the

United States Supreme Court a very rare

thing indeed and I have to wonder why

that should be the case and I wonder

whether it's simply that the court

doesn't want to to to take any risks

under these circumstances and can see

clearly that that Trump's support isn't

going to be abated by this For Heaven's

Sake if they rued the other way imagine

the consequences it it just none of this

will work and what puzzles me and I

wonder if Jerry baker has any

speculations on it because I've heard

some quite amusing ones whether in fact

the Democratic side of this election is

planning somehow or other at a late

stage in in the matter around about the

nomination time uh to find another

candidate apart from Joe Biden who might

conceivably stand successfully against

Donald Trump and Donald Trump won the

first time because the Democratic party

picked the probably the only person in

America uh who couldn't beat Donald

Trump in the shape of Hillary Clinton uh

I don't know quite how how much effort

they've put into to to so putting all

their strength and muscle behind poor

old President Biden under the current

circumstances or whether really they're

just waiting till later to come up with

a with with with a surprise candidate

who might but at the moment they got

nothing to say yeah speculation about

that 30 seconds left Jerry um apologies

we'll be really late to the news

butri continu to be speculation about

that look but a pres it's very hard to

remove a president if he doesn't want to

go and you know I've said this before I

think in my column and on on your on

your program on your on your program

Kate that you know John McCain famously

said the only known cure for

presidential ambition is EMB barming

um and you know with with Joe Biden we

might unfortunately be close to testing

that proposition um he if if he doesn't

want to go and there's no evidence that

he wants to go it's very very hard to

get rid of him as as dire as his

situation and indeed the situation of

the country increasingly looks it's very

very hard to dislodge a president a

president from um you know either from

office or indeed from being the nominee

of his party when he's been elected as

the nominee of his part of his Parts

yeah look I I mentioned this poll

earlier and and I'll just round it off

with that it was a new poll by the New

York times in Sienna College um for

those voters who backed Joe Biden four

years ago 61% now say that he's just too

old to Be an Effective president and

this runs through um so much polling at

the moment that he's too old that he's

ineffective it makes you wonder who is

running the country at the moment is it

really Joe Biden or you know is it all

about now having a structure of Staff

around him beneath him who can support

him as the president only for short

periods of time in public more than the

work that goes on behind the scenes look

we we will talk more about that uh super

Tuesday tomorrow we will be at the

Republicans overseas event we'll talk

about Donald Trump now what has he got

planned for his uh for his presidency in

office if he gets there what about Joe

Biden what happens before the election

are there are there surprises to be had

are there unpredictabilities ahead of it

uh let's see listen I've really enjoyed

hearing from both of you today two big

brains discussing some of the big

subjects of the day Jerry Baker Times

columnist editor at large of the Wall

Street Journal thanks to you Jerry and

Peter hit much cheers Peter Hitchens

mail on Sunday columnist and author good

to speak you again Peter thank you thank

you uh two excellent guests there listen

much to

the