Carbon Fibre Bike Frames… What No One Is Telling You!

Summary

In this video, carbon fiber expert Rob discusses the evolution of carbon bike frames, addressing weight reduction, design innovations, and common issues faced by manufacturers. With over 12 years of experience repairing thousands of frames, Rob offers insights into the challenges of combining materials like carbon and aluminum, the impact of consumer demands on bike design, and the importance of considering rider comfort and fatigue. He also touches on the influence of regulations like UCI compliance on bike development and the need for better solutions for clamped components.

Takeaways

• 🚴 Carbon fiber has revolutionized bike frame design, allowing for more creative and diverse shapes and options compared to steel and aluminum.
• 🔨 The evolution of carbon frames has led to lighter and stiffer bikes, but there's a debate about whether heavier bikes could offer better stability and control.
• 🛠 The quality of a carbon bike frame is heavily influenced by how it's laid up and designed, which requires engineering expertise to optimize performance and function.
• 🔧 Modern carbon frames have moved away from combining alloys with carbon due to issues with temperature expansion and contraction causing stress and cracks.
• 🛡 Disc brakes have largely replaced rim brakes on carbon bikes, reducing material incompatibility issues and improving braking performance.
• 🔄 There's a constant cycle of innovation and iteration in carbon bike design, with manufacturers continually tweaking and evolving their frames to improve performance and rider comfort.
• 🤔 The script raises questions about certain design choices, such as the lack of flexibility in some modern frames, which could affect rider comfort and fatigue over long rides.
• 👷‍♂️ Bike mechanics and manufacturers face challenges with warranty issues and consumer demands, which can lead to design changes and sometimes compromises on quality.
• 🏁 UCI regulations have an impact on bike design, aiming to level the playing field in professional racing, but also potentially limiting innovation in certain areas.
• 🔧 The importance of tool calibration is highlighted, as improper torque can lead to frame damage and is often not covered under warranty if user error is involved.
• 🔄 There's a significant focus on developing seat tubes and the rear end of the bike to improve rider comfort, as bikes have become more efficient but also potentially more fatiguing to ride.

Q & A

What is the main topic of the video involving Rob, the carbon fiber expert?

The main topic of the video is the evolution of carbon fiber bike frames, discussing their weight, design, and common issues encountered by Rob in his experience with carbon bike repair.

How has the carbon fiber technology impacted the bicycle industry according to Rob?

Carbon fiber technology has greatly impacted the bicycle industry by providing more options and flexibility in frame design, allowing for unique shapes and designs that were not possible with steel or aluminum frames.

What is one common issue Rob sees with carbon bike frames?

One common issue Rob sees with carbon bike frames is the problem with the integration of different materials, such as aluminum and carbon, which can lead to cracks and failures due to differing reactions to temperature changes.

Why does Rob mention that some modern frames may not be as comfortable to ride?

Rob mentions that some modern frames may not be as comfortable because of the design choices that prioritize aesthetics or mimic successful race bikes, which can compromise the frame's ability to flex and absorb road vibrations.

What is the significance of the seat tube design in carbon bike frames?

The seat tube design is significant in carbon bike frames because it plays a crucial role in the bike's compliance and comfort. A well-designed seat tube can provide flexibility and absorb shocks, reducing rider fatigue.

What is the problem with using aluminum dropouts on carbon bike frames?

The problem with using aluminum dropouts on carbon bike frames is that carbon fiber does not abrade well. When there is a loose skewer, the carbon can wear down quickly, leading to a loose fit and potential structural issues.

What does Rob suggest as a better solution for clamped parts on carbon bikes?

Rob suggests that there should be a better system for clamped parts on carbon bikes that is more user-friendly and less prone to cracking under pressure, as the current designs can be unfair to users who are not mechanically minded.

Why does Rob believe that the evolution of carbon bike frames is constantly happening?

Rob believes that the evolution of carbon bike frames is constantly happening because as technology and materials advance, manufacturers are continually experimenting with new designs and materials to improve performance and address issues.

What is the role of UCI compliance in the development of road bikes?

UCI compliance plays a role in standardizing certain aspects of road bike design for professional racing, ensuring a level playing field and controlling development to keep costs down, although it can also limit innovation.

What is Rob's opinion on the use of carbon fiber for brake surfaces?

Rob is critical of using carbon fiber for brake surfaces, as it can lead to issues with wear and adhesion problems between materials. He is pleased with the advent of disc brakes, which have largely resolved these issues.

What is the importance of tool calibration according to Rob?

Tool calibration is important because it ensures that components are tightened to the correct torque settings, preventing over-tightening that can lead to cracks or failures in carbon fiber components.

Outlines

00:00

🚴‍♂️ Evolution of Carbon Bike Frames

Rob, a carbon fiber expert, discusses the evolution of carbon bike frames, noting the significant reduction in weight over the years. He emphasizes the importance of the frame's layup process and design, which requires engineering expertise to achieve optimal performance. Rob also touches on the challenges of combining carbon fiber with other materials like alloy, which can lead to issues due to their different reactions to temperature changes. He predicts that trends may come full circle, suggesting we might see a return to older styles like penny farthings in the future.

05:00

🛠️ Design Challenges and Consumer Influence

This paragraph delves into the challenges faced by bike manufacturers in meeting consumer demands for aesthetically pleasing and high-performance bikes. Rob highlights the industry's struggle with designs that may not always be practical, such as the lack of flexibility in certain frame shapes that can affect rider comfort. He also discusses the pressures from warranty issues and the need for manufacturers to innovate while avoiding problematic designs. The conversation also touches on the shift from aluminum to carbon fiber in bike components and the resulting issues with compatibility and material properties.

10:01

🔨 The Impact of UCI Regulations on Bike Design

Rob talks about the influence of regulatory bodies like the UCI on bike design, particularly how they affect the development of road bikes. He explains that while regulations aim to level the playing field and control costs, they can also stifle innovation and lead to less variety in the market. The discussion includes the impact of these regulations on the evolution of bike components, such as the shift from rim brakes to disc brakes, which has allowed for better performance and design without the issues associated with rim brakes on carbon frames.

15:02

🔧 The Importance of Tool Calibration and Rider Comfort

In this section, Rob emphasizes the importance of tool calibration in maintaining bike components, particularly when dealing with carbon fiber, which can be prone to damage if not handled correctly. He also discusses the ongoing efforts to improve rider comfort, focusing on the development of the seat tube and its role in providing flexibility and reducing fatigue. The summary highlights how manufacturers are experimenting with different materials and designs to enhance the riding experience while maintaining the structural integrity of the bike.

20:04

🛑 The Need for Improved Carbon Bike Design and Rider-Friendly Features

Rob concludes the discussion by addressing the need for better design solutions in carbon fiber bikes, especially in areas that are prone to damage or require frequent adjustments by the rider. He calls for an end to the use of carbon fiber in certain components that may not be as durable or user-friendly as traditional materials. The summary also includes a sneak peek at another video where a Chinese carbon frame was cut open to reveal concerning findings, hinting at the importance of transparency and quality in bike manufacturing.

Keywords

💡Carbon Fiber

Carbon fiber is a lightweight and strong material made from thin, strong crystalline filaments of carbon. In the video, it is discussed as the primary material used in modern bike frames, allowing for a wide range of shapes and designs. The evolution from heavier steel and aluminum frames to lighter carbon fiber ones is highlighted, showcasing how carbon fiber has revolutionized the bicycle industry.

💡Frame Layup

Frame layup refers to the process of arranging and layering carbon fiber sheets in a specific pattern to create a bike frame. The video explains that the layup process is crucial for determining the frame's strength, weight, and flexibility. Different layup techniques, such as cross ply and uniweave, are mentioned, emphasizing the engineering behind the design of a carbon fiber bike frame.

💡Rider Comfort

Rider comfort is a key aspect of bike design that the video discusses in the context of frame shapes and materials. It mentions how certain designs can affect a rider's comfort, such as the lack of flex in the seat tube, which can lead to fatigue. The video also touches on how modern bike designs are evolving to provide better comfort without compromising performance.

💡Evolution of Bike Design

The evolution of bike design is a central theme in the video, which explores how bike frames have changed over time, particularly with the advent of carbon fiber. It discusses the progression from traditional steel and aluminum frames to the lighter, more flexible carbon fiber frames, and how this has allowed for greater innovation in bike shapes and performance.

💡Composite Materials

Composite materials, such as the combination of carbon fiber with other elements like aluminum, are discussed in the context of their use in bike components. The video points out the challenges of combining different materials, such as the potential for stress cracks due to differing reactions to temperature changes, and how this has influenced design choices.

💡Dropouts

Dropouts are the parts of a bike frame that hold the wheel in place. The video discusses the preference for aluminum dropouts over carbon fiber ones due to their durability and resistance to wear. It also mentions how design choices, such as the absence of a metal face on carbon dropouts, can lead to maintenance issues and affect the bike's performance.

💡UCI Compliance

UCI compliance refers to the set of rules and regulations set by the Union Cycliste Internationale that govern bike designs for professional racing. The video touches on how these rules can limit or guide the evolution of bike design, ensuring a level playing field for all competitors and sometimes leading to compromises in design for the sake of compliance.

💡Fatigue

Fatigue, in the context of the video, refers to the wear and tear on a bike frame over time, particularly due to the stress and strain of riding. It discusses how modern bike designs are addressing fatigue issues, such as by incorporating more flexible materials or designs that can absorb shock and reduce rider fatigue.

💡Design Iteration

Design iteration is the process of refining and improving a product through successive versions. The video uses this term to describe how bike manufacturers are constantly testing and evolving their designs to improve performance and rider comfort. Examples include the development of seat tubes and the use of different materials to achieve the desired balance of stiffness and flexibility.

💡Disc Brakes

Disc brakes are a type of bicycle braking system that offers better stopping power and heat dissipation compared to traditional rim brakes. The video mentions the advent of disc brakes as a positive development in the bike industry, allowing for the use of carbon fiber wheels without the issues associated with rim brakes and providing better overall performance.

💡Consumer Demand

Consumer demand is highlighted in the video as a driving force behind the evolution of bike design. It discusses how manufacturers are influenced by what consumers want, such as lighter bikes or specific frame shapes, and how this can sometimes lead to design compromises or innovations. The video also suggests that consumer feedback can help shape the future of bike design.

Highlights

Rob, a carbon fiber expert, shares insights on the evolution of carbon bike frames and common issues faced.

Discussion on the weight of frames and the preference for heavier bikes for stability.

The impact of carbon fiber on bicycle design and its allowance for creative frame shapes.

Evolution from traditional to modern carbon frames and the neutralization of weight as a design factor.

The importance of the layup process in determining the function and performance of a bike frame.

The contrast between professional bike designs and those that may be copying without understanding the purpose.

Observations on the use of twill in older frames and its absence in modern designs.

Debate on alloy in carbon frames and the incompatibility of materials leading to structural issues.

The preference for aluminum dropouts over carbon for durability and resistance to wear.

Critique of designs that may be driven by consumer demand rather than practicality or engineering principles.

The role of UCI compliance in shaping bicycle design and its impact on innovation.

The development of bicycle components like seat tubes to improve rider comfort and fatigue resistance.

Discussion on the importance of tool calibration and its effect on the longevity of bicycle parts.

The challenges of carbon fiber's lack of flexibility and its implications for clamped components.

The need for better solutions for clamping parts on high-performance bicycles to prevent cracks.

Sneak peek of a video where a Chinese carbon frame was cut open revealing poor internal construction.

Transcripts

the carbon fiber expert Rob is back by

popular demand as the back is stuck

between his sweaty legs this video was

completely off the cuff with zero

planning but there was way too much good

info streaming from Rob's mouth for this

not to reach YouTube take a hexel while

it's loaded and just Nick the middle of

it and see how many people will be

squinted so that we'll talk about the

weight of frames I wish the bike was a

bit heavier in this in this Headroom

we'll talk about the evolution of carbon

bike frames and the common issues that

Rob Sees at a bad moment

how different frame shapes affect the

rider and Rider Comfort where do you

give the rider any relief we also May

touch a nerve for a few people this

brexit in which is great

all this info from Rob comes from over

12 years experience and 14 000 carbon

bike frames fixed by carbon bike repair

UK so let's get into it shall we we want

to talk about the evolution of carbon

frames right with carbon fiber what have

we what have we achieved from this Frame

yeah to this Frame and you say well

firstly the weight

the weight difference I mean arguably

they be similar size but this one is a

lot heavier and you'd say well how is

that possible first of all carbon carbon

bikes has been such a good thing for the

industry I mean yeah we had so little

options when we had steel frames and

then aluminum there's still limited

options with shapes and is that the

carbon is it's like it's just amazing

stuff it's allowed the guys to go crazy

with shapes designs yeah put DNA into

these bicycles that no one can spot and

then you create a special thing about it

as it's constantly evolving so by the

time this one gets into this hand

and this becomes the old one yeah what's

going to be this Frame I see what you

mean where is it going it's constantly

going weight has almost been neutralized

now wait wait yeah yeah they're so light

now how did you get any lighter yeah and

then you start hearing things like I'm

starting to hear things like I wish the

bike was a bit heavier in this in this

room or going down it was just blowing

me all over the place I prefer to write

something like this yeah the main thing

is as we talked about with your trip Fox

yeah it's the way they lay up bikes a

professional bike compared to a bike

that's maybe copying something is

understanding that the entire process

comes down to

you know the way the bike is laid up

yeah designed laid up and what does

function is it takes an engineer to work

out what the purpose of the spike is

yeah whereas I thought with the tripox

it was a bit

it didn't know what I wanted to be with

an aero bike or was it going to be a

yeah a climbing bike where there's a lot

of thought going into this and and even

at this at this age yeah this bike was

at its highest level of Technology yeah

and all the stuff that they had

available to them

at a bad moment

you could see the way this is laid up

you can see the cross ply okay okay it's

going at 45 degrees and you've got the

straight uniweave running this way

you've got all sorts of things you'll

probably find in here yep there's twill

in here which you don't see much now on

Modern frames it's interesting to see

the evolution of carbon frames side by

side and we'll look at an older Bianchi

later in the video as well who knows

where we are heading lighter heavier

thicker thinner they say Trends come

back around so maybe we'll all be riding

penny farthings in 10 years time this uh

for example on a lot of modern frames

now you don't see

alloy in carbon anymore

um the two materials should never be put

together

no you should never never put those two

materials together if you kind of make

that one molded item and the problem is

very simple this

uh doesn't react to temperature it

doesn't adjust it doesn't Flex the

carbon stays the same the alloy will

okay so the Matrix that's supposed to

hold the epoxy that's supposed to hold

this spot to this part yeah it's under

enormous amount of pressure as it gets

hotter hotter colder hotter colder

stress sit in the sun while having a

coffee yeah you know the carbon is happy

yeah the epoxy is you know it's saying

which which where do you want me to go

and over the few years you start seeing

cracks you start seeing I don't know

there's a lot of your viewers who will

have seen and their bottom brackets come

loose so they change out things like

dropouts yeah these are not these are

all the aluminum dropouts which I prefer

to carbon you have a look at this again

it's easy to criticize the brands it

really is bike mechanics are known to

criticize some of the ideas and some of

them are Justified because they're

reacting to maybe a warranty issue

that's happened so they'll they'll

modify the bike as quickly as possible

either modify the mold like you saw or

start afresh and then never go near that

issue again and then they'll do press

foot bearings which kind of work but

maybe the design is not quite there so

they start having problems there these

guys are going to understand have a tiny

bit of empathy for the manufacturer in

developing a high-end but it's not a

simple thing yeah it's not simple at all

we've got to have some empathy my

friends we are riding complex carbon

machines and it's interesting hearing it

from Rob who works on hundreds of frames

each month I can see how the cracks and

breaks in these frames makes Rob

empathetic given the development is

driven by the consumer and that leads us

on to the next Point nicely

so obviously it would be nice if you

weren't you know the audience wasn't the

bug fixer yeah true true I mean I know

they do try before they put the bikes up

but they got it they got to keep this

ball rolling because we're getting the

benefit of riding amazing bikes yeah so

yeah what's the price you pay the price

for

an incredibly High demanding audience

who want a bike that looks with a with a

drop top tube or it's about the lightest

it's got to look right you know it's got

to have like for example this sort of

malarkey here yeah is is an iteration of

uh of something yeah I'm not quite sure

why they did this because this bike

would be a vertically very uncompliant

and very uncomfortable to ride what's

that because of the there's nowhere for

the seat tube to flex because it's

blocked now The BMC did this Cannondale

have done this now there could be a good

reason that I've missed

don't get me wrong it could be something

I'm not seeing yeah but there are a lot

of designs and I'm not referring to this

only that are forced upon

manufacturers to follow suit yeah wear

bicycles either look good yeah or

whether the world champion has won

something on that bike it looks like

that you've got to kind of go down that

road even if it's not a good idea yeah

yeah it's still going to go down that

road until either the warranty

department is a war zone you think about

it it's really not good for the consumer

because when bicycle companies go down

there's just less choices less

competition I'm not here to criticize

yeah I'm here to empathize actually yeah

I do see some things that definitely

need criticism yeah because there's some

things that are overlooked and design

you'd be surprised there's some brands

that absolutely fly on the face of

reason when it comes to design

particularly with regard to what carbon

is capable of doing and what it's not

doing change

for change sake or change for the better

or change because of consumers me and

you that does get the old mine Palace

working this type of example

um when bicycles were converted from

Wheels were converted from aluminum

wheels to carbon so another evolution in

this but the problem is that the way

that a clincher works yeah is designed

around

extrude War thicknesses yeah yeah that

are based on aluminum yeah so you can't

just convert it but they have okay so

they did convert them they just

converted them because they the way the

beading sits and where the brake

calipers sit both on because you need to

be able to swap between aluminum wheel

and a carbon so you can't have a fatter

wall then it's about the braking

surfaces etc etc these are pressures

that I've applied typical pressures that

are applied to companies where they

would if you were asked them honestly

would you want to go down that road

you'd say no yeah you've got companies

like mavic who said look some of it will

keep carbon and the other parts will

make aluminum there

and and so you get adhesion problems

again between the materials because they

don't belong together yeah and you get

warping down you know it's so I'm really

happy to see disc brakes have finally

come on awful a few feathers yeah does

this remove that problem and allowed you

to ride a carbon wheel now without the

issues of the rim of carbon that makes I

mean that just doesn't make sense in my

mind full stop to have a carbon braking

service

slowly grind down yeah and you see kind

of see the stuff here when you see all

the broken bikes across the brands and

you can start seeing very very easily

yeah

um what is working and what's not I'm

sure that is going to spark a lovely Rim

brake versus disc brake discussion ding

ding ding go on fight it out in the

comments so it appears we basically used

a design that was meant for aluminum but

simply swap the material to carbon fiber

interesting let's take dropouts for as

an example if you ask me

regardless of weight and and and and and

its potential to win a race would I

prefer an aluminum dropper over a carbon

one and I would say absolutely 100 yeah

why because carbon does not abrade well

if you rub it with uh with sandpaper it

just turns to powder okay you do that

with aluminum you'll struggle yeah yeah

so if you have a loose skewer and a drop

out and you and trust me we've repaired

more of these than any

99 dropouts carbon from the day we

started 12 years ago all carbon Dropout

problems so that tells you clearly the

decision to go carbon has been

possibly because of this bonding the

relationship between these two alien

materials forcing them together and then

just running out of steam to try and

solve why the paint is cracking on the

join line yeah so you just said just go

carbon and we'll see how far we go some

of the older bikes if you remember I'm

not sure they still do that had little

washer faces on the aluminum ones which

are brilliant brilliant yeah because

then you had the benefits of carbon

light right with no bond issues with an

aluminum face yeah and they took that

away why

was it too expensive did they fall off

were they worried about them falling

away I don't know it's the change I

guess so they've gone to through axle

which has kind of solved a few issues

there so that's nice to see that again

it's a constant evolution

so this brand and they're not they're

not alone has chosen not to put a face

on this carbon Dropout you feel the

aluminum one there's hardly anywhere you

can see some marks on it from the skewer

grippers yeah and then you look at this

one with just a similar age and you can

feel the rich and it not only wears the

outside as soon as the skewer is

compressed down and there's there's

pressure and it starts to eat the carbon

away it starts to get looser when it

gets looser the axle that's sitting in

this Ridge starts to move up and down

back and forth particularly on the

chainstay side

yeah so what some of the manufacturers

have done is on this broken hanger

they've actually put the hanger in the

way of the Dropout to stop the Dropout

from ex wearing on the drive side

because the chain side is pulling more

than the non-drive side nothing like

turning your lovely carbon drop out into

a grinding mill what can we do people I

like the aluminum face that makes sense

to me but then we're back to aluminum

bonded to carbon let me know your

experiences down below and what you

think now this is a point that I need to

make about road bikes time trial bikes

and mountain bikes they are the test bed

for a very popular bicycle which is a

road bike yeah they test all kinds of

things mountain bike with a through axle

and and many other things yeah time

trial bike various aspects of that

bike's functionality and they trial them

excuse the pun yeah yeah and then they

start to adopt them it is I mean there's

there's all sorts of issues that uh uh

say UCI compliant road bike would have

over a non-ucr compliant bicycle and you

can see here the UCR compliant bike has

a clear label on the front in the ECI

Clause it says the bike must be

available

to purchase in order for it to qualify

for UCI race

and there's a again there's a lot of

negativity about that and it stopped the

evolution of has that always been the

case is that always well I don't know

when that Clause can be that's been

going for a long time and it's a it's

basically a leveler it's a it's a

leveler and it's a good thing because

when you train really hard you can't get

in a in a big team with a with a bike

that's made especially for them yeah

it's a bit like Formula One there's a

rule yeah by the FIA that controls the

development yeah it keeps the costs down

as well yeah but in the case of both

Sports just to con comply with UCI and

beat your component opponent means you

even spend more money so that hasn't

kind of worked the issue with the UCI

compliance has mean it's that they've

had to produce a bicycle that's still

cool yeah it's still evolving yeah yeah

I mean we could talk about the Dogma

60.5 which was one of the first

fantastic iterations of a bicycle yeah

that had squiggly forks and everyone

thought well that's really what was well

that's you know is it a trendy thing

very clever bite yeah very unique

directly at the bike and they're doing

that Trek has done it with internal

um seed post flexible seed posts on an

arrow front end of the Dome nine

fantastic bike again what is that rear

the rear the the bearing called the

isotherm ISO oh what do they have in

there yeah I'm not sure yeah ISO fix

there's not a lot sometimes on a road

bike that they can develop anymore keep

pushing compared to that giant I showed

you earlier so the UCI keeps it a Level

Playing Field if it's anything like

formula one though I'm sure there's a

bit of raw bending I can see why you

need those guidelines though or we'll be

riding some absolutely crazy funky

frames and carbon frame shapes talk

tools talk tools must have a talk tool

calibrate a talk tool it's very

important

um that they'll talk until they break

and then they'll reverse the torque

setting yeah to a point that's pretty

safe

unless the something happened in the

manufacturing which is why they will

warranty their background breaks but

they know that bike backwards and if

it's broken what we call a interaction

interface okay where the owner or the

mechanic has something to do with it in

interface we're going to put something

in yeah tighten it bottom bracket

anything those are generally not

warrantied well one of the biggest

changes so this is something I wanted to

put in yeah was when you when you put a

bicycle through an error tile yeah and

then you work out the most amazing way

of compressing carbon into the thinnest

of all thicknesses there's not much

further you can go other than change

shapes you know the Fashion's sake yeah

but one of the areas that don't get

talked about because it's not very

exciting bit of the bike

me too from what we're seeing here is

developing a huge pace and that is

because the bikes have got to a point

where they're so efficient one area that

they hadn't accounted for

was bright as fatigue yeah fatigue yeah

so you put them on an old veg yeah and

an old Dogma I don't know if you've ever

ridden one of those books but they are

hard bikes okay super fast every bit of

what comes out of the pedal there's

hardly any lateral compliance it's it

goes but you are dead tired at the end

of the day it's installed yeah with uh

with the Madonna nine was one of the

first steps trick and the others

Cannondale did it with a they started

working with the seat tubes making them

different the Sargon bike I think had a

forked end down by the bottom bracket

yeah I started to really mess around

with this part to try and give the rider

some flexibility anyway yeah yeah

because a lot of people see these

yeah see today as the Comfort mechanism

of a bike yeah but those things should

not move at all why because the back

wheel if you can see that shape yeah it

comes up to there so this thing flexed

you'd be you'd be banging into there so

that isn't what the seat stays there for

thin seed stays just mean lighter weight

yeah so where do you give the rider any

relief I'm going to see it too basically

this part of the bike is like a crossbow

yeah yeah absolutely yeah if you apply

weight yeah to the saddle yeah the rider

goes back yeah okay this part bows

forward so it's under that attention

it's under tension yeah so what they're

looking at now is that if you stop that

from bowing yeah you've got to control

it but if you stop it like it's

happening here

then you might as well have a thick Post

in here because you can't do anything

with this there's a lot of development

work going on these frames and you can

sometimes you can see them clearly

sometimes not so clear but you could

over Flex it which would mean that the

back tail gets whippy okay and it gets

whippy and you you don't feel confident

the back wheels on the floor yeah so you

need to start dialing back and the

beauty of what I said earlier about

developing bicycles of carbon without

changing the mold yeah is you add carbon

you take carbon away yeah it's amazing

yeah and you can dial that back in like

a like a finely tuned piano it's really

brilliant this is me playing the piano

plus I just actually wanted some air

time it seems there is plenty of

development in and around the seat tube

hopefully making us all a little bit

more comfortable in the long run so this

is like an evolution happening right

here these guys are looking at this

design again

this is the best thing at this time

right you've got

um aluminum down here fine you've got

bolts Allen key bolts you can take them

off replace them great the factors of

that aluminum you don't either have to

replace them but it was nice it was nice

to have which you don't have now then

you've got this enormous chunk of

material here for no reason and then

you've got absolutely no consideration

at all it's just a circulatory it's just

a circular tube which stops this part

from collapsing because it's like a

house of cards if you think about that

if it collapses this way if you get it's

almost like tension if you get hit from

the rear yeah right the rider goes back

actually the bike goes forward because

the vehicle is faster than the road so

that tension because the bike is stuck

between your sweaty legs it's literally

like it literally is the saddle is

locked in

yeah you're locked in there so that

pressure from the top plus you'll yeah

if you like 80 kilos or whatever there's

a lot of tension going down on the end

of the seat post so it's like you said

it's there being about an hour and then

take a crossbow and take it and take it

hacksaw while it's loaded and just Nick

the middle of it and see how many people

will be squinted

that's why the sea tube's so important

as well and because it's under that

tension no no one has had any

consideration here this is the safest

route right but they have had no

consideration for the rider what's it

it's not this company's fault yeah at

this period they were all doing the same

thing they were working on things like

this getting more shape into you see the

way the the asymmetric shape a lot of

angles and things to try and stiffen up

this whippiness that's happening on the

back so we're just getting them so they

were dealing with this part of the bike

at in this era dealing with this area

dealing with the tubes lots of funny

shapes foreign

stuff around here and they've missed

this bit

yeah this bit was a bit right I was

incredibly fatigued on a bike like this

but everybody was the same so it didn't

matter I'm not sure about you but I'd

still love one of those Bianchi frames

even if it does feel like I'm riding a

brick down the road I must admit this

Frame really did stand out but I'm sure

the eagle-eyed amongst you spotted the

huge crack in the top of the seat stay

which makes this a write-off and also

makes me pretty sad to fight on the

evolution side then is that I'll ask you

is there anything you would like to see

or the thing you'd like to see the most

I I don't know if there's anything with

no disc brakes are in which is great I'd

like to see carbon dry Parts Disappear

Completely yeah I think they've got to

get rid of that I'd like to see a better

solution for anything that's going to be

clamped by a human being yeah this

should be a better system it's really

unfair uh when you're producing a high

performance bicycle yeah to give it to

somebody who's not mechanically minded

yeah yeah that's true to to then suck up

the result of a crack because an

aluminum or metal it might bulge a

little bit and you could probably Hammer

attack yourself yeah but when this goes

you really are awesome you're in for a

retail discounted yeah replacement frame

so it's not a very user-friendly thing

carbon fiber you'd like these things

have got to be changed yeah these are

compressed in

um riveted bottle cage holders and if

you tweak them just a little bit too

tight they start to spin yeah they lose

a great lizard yeah this is a really bad

thing as a reward for making it this far

in the video here is a sneak peek of

what else we got up to on the day

[Music]

a big thanks to Rob for sharing his

knowledge and letting me record and

hassle him for a whole day if you

haven't already do watch this video

where we cut up this Chinese carbon

frame and found something pretty bad

inside

it wasn't good