This Artist Became Successful Without Being a Master
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful podcast episode, the host engages in a deep conversation with Sam Lewis, an accomplished art YouTuber with a decade of experience. They delve into the challenges of building a successful online presence from scratch, emphasizing the importance of perseverance, continuous learning, and the ability to adapt. Sam candidly shares his journey, from solo beginnings to running a Brooklyn studio, and the ongoing struggle to balance passion with the practicalities of monetization and audience engagement. The discussion highlights the value of starting without being fully prepared, iterating based on feedback, and the reality of the ups and downs in the creative process. The episode serves as both an inspiration and a practical guide for aspiring content creators and artists, reminding them that success is a journey, not a destination.
Takeaways
- 😀 Success in creative endeavors like YouTube often requires perseverance and a long-term commitment before seeing any financial returns.
- 🛠️ The importance of execution is highlighted; creating and sharing work consistently is more important than waiting for perfection.
- 🚀 Starting a project without full preparation is encouraged as a way to learn and grow, rather than being held back by the fear of not being ready.
- 🎨 For artists, the journey of improvement can be non-linear, with periods of plateaus followed by significant leaps in skill.
- 🔄 The cycle of creating, reflecting, and iterating is presented as a fundamental process for growth in any creative field.
- 🤝 Building a community and surrounding oneself with like-minded individuals can be beneficial for motivation and improvement.
- 👀 The struggle with comparison and the need to focus on one's own progress rather than others' achievements is acknowledged.
- 💡 The value of finding joy in the process of creation, rather than solely on the outcome or audience reception, is emphasized.
- 💼 Balancing the artistic and business aspects of a creative career is crucial, and can involve wearing different 'hats' and mindsets.
- 🔑 The key to overcoming creative blocks and achieving long-term success is the ability to adapt, learn from failures, and keep pushing forward.
Q & A
How long did it take for the YouTuber to start making money on YouTube?
-It took the YouTuber 3 and a half years of grinding on YouTube before making a dollar.
What is the main focus of the YouTuber's channel?
-The main focus of the YouTuber's channel is art, including figure drawing classes, hosting a podcast, and creating larger paintings.
What does the YouTuber attribute to much of his success?
-The YouTuber attributes much of his success to execution, doing things, and creating content consistently over time.
How does the YouTuber feel about the importance of starting before being entirely prepared?
-The YouTuber emphasizes the importance of just starting and doing things without being entirely prepared, as it allows for growth and improvement over time.
What is the YouTuber's perspective on the relationship between viewership and subscriber count?
-The YouTuber believes that viewership is more important than subscriber count, as it reflects the actual engagement with the content.
How does the YouTuber handle the fear and vulnerability associated with putting creative work out into the world?
-The YouTuber acknowledges the fear and vulnerability but suggests that one must be okay with putting work out there, regardless of the fear, and learn from the process.
What advice does the YouTuber give for dealing with the ups and downs of success and failure in creative endeavors?
-The YouTuber advises to keep going regardless of the ups and downs, focusing on the process and the love for the work rather than just the outcome.
What does the YouTuber suggest as the best way to find one's style or improve at making creative content?
-The YouTuber suggests that the best way to find one's style or improve is through consistent practice and doing the work over a long period of time.
How does the YouTuber view the journey of success in the creative field?
-The YouTuber views the journey of success as an ongoing process with no clear end point, where the true success is the ability to continue doing the work and keep improving.
What is the YouTuber's opinion on the importance of monetization in the early stages of a creative project?
-The YouTuber believes that monetization should not be the primary focus in the early stages, but rather the passion and enjoyment of the work should come first.
How does the YouTuber approach the balance between creating for personal satisfaction and creating for an audience?
-The YouTuber approaches this balance by prioritizing personal satisfaction and ensuring that the work aligns with personal interests and passions, while also considering the audience.
Outlines
😀 Pursuit of Success and Overcoming Challenges on YouTube
The speaker reflects on their 3.5-year journey on YouTube before earning any income, emphasizing that success is about persistence and continuous improvement. They discuss an interview with Sam Lewis, an art YouTuber who transitioned from a solo endeavor to a larger studio in Brooklyn, hosting classes and a podcast. The episode focuses on turning YouTube into a full-time job and the importance of starting to pursue dreams without delay. The speaker also mentions their own struggles with finishing projects and the importance of execution, sharing the advice that one must simply start and consistently work on improving their craft.
😔 The Reality of Fluctuating Success on Social Media
This paragraph delves into the ups and downs of the speaker's YouTube channel, which has experienced a decline in viewership over the past eight months. They discuss the effort put into creating content, such as painting and editing, and the disappointment when videos do not perform as expected. The speaker acknowledges the challenges of balancing the desire for viewership and financial success with the reality of an unpredictable online environment. They also touch on the importance of overcoming fear and being prepared for continuous failure as part of the creative process.
🤔 Balancing Passion with the Practicalities of Commerce
The speaker discusses the dichotomy between creating art purely for the love of it and the need to consider commercial aspects to gain viewership and entertain. They describe the difficulty of balancing artistic integrity with the necessity to compromise and adapt to the medium, such as creating content that will attract an audience. The speaker also shares their own experiences with the challenges of juggling different mindsets, from purely creative to business-oriented, and the importance of finding joy and fulfillment in the process itself.
🚀 Incremental Growth and the Importance of Consistent Action
The speaker emphasizes the importance of taking incremental steps and being consistent in one's efforts to improve and grow, whether in art, YouTube, or any other field. They discuss the idea of gathering information through doing, experimenting, and learning from each attempt. The speaker also highlights the need to separate the love of the process from the desire for monetary success and viewership, suggesting that the pure joy of creation should be the primary motivator.
💪 Overcoming Resistance and Embracing the Journey
The speaker talks about the importance of pushing past resistance and struggling to do the work necessary to achieve one's goals. They share their own experiences with the constant worry and to-do lists that come with pursuing a creative career. The speaker encourages finding ways to cope with these emotions and stresses that the ability to do so is what leads to success. They also discuss the idea of the 'journey before destination' and the importance of finding joy in the process of creation.
🎨 The Artistic Journey and the Fundamentals of Improvement
The speaker discusses the importance of fundamentals in art and the process of improvement, which can be slow and challenging. They share their personal experiences with traditional oil painting and academic drawing, describing the satisfaction that comes from seeing oneself improve. The speaker also touches on the idea of self-gratification in art and the importance of starting and trying, regardless of the end goal.
🔍 The Plateauing Effect and Learning to Focus on Personal Growth
The speaker explores the concept of improvement plateaus in learning and skill development, describing how progress can be a series of levels and plateaus. They discuss the psychological impact of these plateaus and the importance of focusing on personal growth rather than comparing oneself to others. The speaker also shares insights on the importance of being open to feedback and learning from a variety of sources.
🤝 The Value of Community and Finding Your Own Path to Success
The speaker talks about the importance of surrounding oneself with like-minded individuals who are also striving to improve. They discuss the potential downsides of being around those who are already highly successful and the benefits of being part of a community of peers. The speaker also emphasizes the need to find one's own version of success and the importance of doing what one loves without being tied to a specific identity or career path.
👋 Encouraging Others to Keep Creating and the Importance of Execution
The speaker encourages others to keep creating and sharing their work, regardless of the number of views or followers. They stress the importance of execution and following through with projects, even when faced with self-doubt or the fear that others may not appreciate the work. The speaker also discusses the value of sharing perspectives and experiences, as well as the idea of choosing projects based on personal interest rather than solely on financial gain.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡YouTuber
💡Monetization
💡Executing
💡Creativity
💡Success
💡Vulnerability
💡Fear
💡Intention
💡Growth
💡Sustainability
Highlights
The journey to success on YouTube can be long and challenging, often taking years before earning any income.
Sam Lewis, an art YouTuber, started modestly without experience and eventually moved to a larger studio in Brooklyn.
The importance of not waiting to start pursuing dreams and making YouTube a full-time living is discussed.
Executing and doing things consistently is attributed to much of Sam's success.
The conversation emphasizes the need to start creating content without being entirely prepared.
Monetizing content and doing it sustainably is a focus, even when not feeling entirely ready.
The struggle with finishing projects and the advice to simply start doing things is highlighted.
Overcoming the fear of putting work out there and the vulnerability that comes with it is discussed.
The realization that success is not a destination but a continuous journey is shared.
The conversation touches on the fluctuating nature of views and the fickleness of online success.
The importance of intention in projects and balancing creative fulfillment with financial needs is covered.
The discussion of the difference between the joy of creating for oneself versus the pressure of business outcomes.
The idea that subscriber count is less important than actual viewership on platforms like YouTube.
The need to keep creating and improving, regardless of the outcome of individual videos.
The conversation about the importance of enjoying the process of creation and not just the end result.
The challenges of balancing art and commerce, and the need to adapt to the medium you're in.
The importance of doing the work, taking risks, and finding your own path to success.
The discussion on the rate of improvement in art and the plateauing effect that can occur.
The advice to focus on your own journey and not compare yourself to others in your field.
The conversation ends with the recommendation to keep creating and sharing your work.
Transcripts
was grinding at YouTube for 3 and 1/2
years before I made a dollar and that
only gave me a spot in the race to even
attempt attempt to be in the game you
never reach success I'm just able to
continue doing it and that is the true
success I'm able to keep going like
that's the only goal really hey guys in
this epod I talk to slooh or Sam Lewis
he's an art YouTuber that's been around
for about 10 years Sam had a pretty
modest start he started doing everything
completely solo without any experience
and then eventually moved to a bigger
studio in Brooklyn where he's able to
host figure drawing classes host a
podcast and also have a spot to do his
larger paintings in this episode we talk
about how we managed to make YouTube his
full-time living and the importance of
not waiting to start pursuing your
dreams also this episode is sponsored by
me if you're interested in supporting me
consider checking out the links to the
courses in the description below
everything I do is funded by me so your
guys' support really does help me make
more content like this thanks and enjoy
the episode I think a lot of people
struggle with trying to finish projects
and trying to get things done and you
know you have built this like pretty
substantial YouTube following kind of
off just doing your own thing and kind
of like experimenting and doing crazy
art projects kind of by yourself and I
guess I wanted to talk to you about like
the act of like just starting doing
things without being entirely prepared
but also being able to monetize it and
do it sustainably all my traits you know
there's a lot that I could say that I'm
not good at or I thought I was good at
and then as I've gotten older was like
oh I actually am not good at this but
one of the things I hold close to and
attribute to a lot of My Success is
executing and just doing things and
making things and doing it a lot just
very simply whatever it is it happen to
be like paintings and seeing through a
creative project like a painting and
then filming it and then seeing through
the edit and then posting it and then
doing that you know hundreds of times
over the course of a few years so
whether the video or the painting was
good or bad it doesn't matter I did it I
I meet a lot of people who are
constantly in like I have to like
constantly prepare or I'm not ready to
do this yeah I hear it all the time too
and it's like like how do I find my
style how do I actually make stuff and
the answer is like you just do it 100%
it's very torturously easy you just have
to do it for a long time and you get
better but you know I heard it all the
time also and it's what holds people
back the most I think is like oh I don't
think I'm good enough or I want to try
to get better before I start putting
things out if we're talking specifically
about like social media or like building
an online brand or business they like
they with withhold putting things out or
like I have so many examples of this for
like kids who want to start companies
let's say they want to like make sure
their designs are perfect or they want
to make sure their promotion even for
the product like make a so like an
Instagram account get good promo for the
Instagram all this stuff they want to
prepare and organize in a row before
they even put it out when the truth of
the matter if you think systematically
and like sort of logically is like you
put things out first you do it as best
as you can and then you look back you
say what can I do better what worked
within and then you do it again and then
you look back at that and then you say
what worked what didn't and then you do
it again so the goal for everyone should
be sort of just put things out again if
we're talking about like social media
and like business but I get you know
it's obvious that people get insecure
and they creative genres or creative
outlets for people are more vulnerable
so they it's harder for them to just
like put things out like I get it you
know it's obvious like you know
especially if we're talking about like
even me when I was making my first
couple videos of a camera talking to
myself with um you know with a painting
that I made I was super nervous to put
it out and even after doing it for a
year I never post it to my personal
Instagram account because I was just
nervous for people to like see me being
vulnerable talking about painting when
some of my friends and family didn't
know I was that into it I mean it seems
like like I'm getting into the stuff
more myself you know after like working
for proo for a long time I was kind of
behind the scenes I didn't have as much
risk M and kind of like taking on more
of the risk myself I'm seeing how the
fear never really goes away you know
totally like you were talking about how
you know you're at this end of you're
you're at the end of like some Journey
where you have this six studio and you
you know you have a big following and
somebody might look at that as the like
end of the journey yeah where you've
made it you're not anxious about stuff
anymore but I'm sure now you're still it
it's scary it's still it's still hard
yeah it's different anxieties but yeah
of course I'm still like that's not the
end I mean there's a hundred different
sort of rabbit holes we can go down now
but like or in this conversation like
yeah you always want more you want your
business to do more you want to get more
views and yeah the studio cuz people
don't they just see from the outside
like yeah the studio is sick it's a
Dream It's a pipe dream for me it's a
lot of responsibility like we were just
talking about but also if you dive into
the weeds of my analytics Like My Views
aren't that good actually you know like
actually for the past eight months my
YouTube channel has been going really
sort of downward and I'll have a good
video here and there and it will bring
in people but so that's like something
people don't realize and there's all
these other things going around that you
know it's super fickle I don't get
nervous about putting my work out
anymore like I I do what I I'm lucky to
do exactly what I want so and I've done
it enough where like I I'm pretty
confident with what I make in terms of
how I like it it's more of the time
allocation versus and that affirmation
it's like oh I just put in like you know
50 hours painting I put in 40 hours
editing a video and the video did bad
it's like
dang I love the painting but you know a
lot of the intention of doing that
project was to like benefit my YouTube
channel and make money because now I
have this business I have all these
other responsibilities so it's like [ __ ]
like regardless of people like it or not
which is great if they write nice
comments it's more of like dang I just
wasted like 2 weeks you know like that's
a lot of time and it was fun sure but
like I've already I've kind of I'm I'm a
little past the fun part like everything
is fun but like I'm not just you know
there's a lot of you know things I need
to do I don't know if you get what I'm
saying but it's different for someone
who like is just trying to build it and
get views in general if they're not
worried about the upkeep of their studio
and everyone has bills to pay but like
you know there's that Bob Ross quote
where it's something like you know as
long as you painted you had a good day
at a certain point it's like that's not
true like if you painted and you didn't
make any money then you don't get to
paint anymore exactly and I think that
part of all this stuff is learning to
overcome the fear and being okay with
the failure as it comes because it's
going to keep coming that's exactly
right so and that's and that goes for
both for people in my position right now
because like I said there's been like a
lot of months in the past you know half
year where like I do those week or two
week long projects and I don't get sort
of like the viewership I'm expecting but
there's never I have never had a thought
in my mind where I'm going to stop it's
always on to the next one always no
matter how down in the dumps I am about
it you know so that's what is important
is to and obviously and it's funny this
goes to the cliche thing but that's
where like the passion comes you know
and intention so like intention pie
chart you need to make money you need to
be creatively fulfilled you want to grow
your brand you want to experiment you
want to get new skills those are all
things you could could do within one
painting project one YouTube video but
for people that are like just starting
out their intentions are just or a lot
of people their intentions are like oh
this is an Avenue to success or this
creative Outlet is an Avenue to make
money where that's like the wrong way to
start cuz you'll probably be let down
and you'll probably not have good
experiences because to get lucky just
starting out it's slim unless you're
like really really good and have like
really good insight to maneuver over the
year but like the intention for most
people with anything is just to do it
cuz you want to and try hard and you
know be smart
about finding opportunities to take
advantage of but you know like I almost
Relish in the days is that the right
word like I missed the days when I was
just
painting something I've never tried
before like a big stencil project like
this tattoo I remember this is actually
the one that like kind of blew my
channel up in the beginning but it was
one of my favorite canvas projects and I
there was
nothing no overarching reason why I was
doing it I just wanted to do a big
painting project I had free time and I
it it was 100% 100% pure like bu me for
me and I wanted to film a cool video
about it you know up to that point I was
making zerar on YouTube and taking it so
seriously so my intentions were like
pure where now it's impossible to sort
of get that Purity I still do projects
that I love and want and and for just
the pure joy but there is so much more
within the intention pie chart now than
back then yeah and my intention was
never to make money it was a pipe dream
obviously you know if I could do exactly
what I want with a pure joy situation
and make money of course but it wasn't
like a
realistic pip it's like Oh and it goes
both ways too like when you have the
failures you feel like quitting yeah but
when you have the successes it's not
like you're finished either you know
it's like inevitably you're going to hit
a video and it's going to really well
and the next is not going to do as well
and it's going to feel bad you just went
through this yeah yeah I for people that
I I've been making videos for 3 years
you know and I'm not a massive Channel I
have like 7,000 subscribers now or
something and also I hate let's just get
this out of the way for a second people
are so concentrate on the subscriber
that is not that has nothing to do with
anything these days it's just viewership
right it's like monthly viewership it's
like yeah Stan or me I have 340,000
subscribers but my videos get like
10,000 views to like 60,000 views or
sometimes more so it's like anyways yeah
that's just one of my pet peeves my one
pet peeve it's like it's just viewership
so you had a good video you have 7,000
subscribers but you had a video to 140
or something yeah yeah well and it feels
great but then I released the next video
and it was like it was different and I
was trying out something new and it
didn't do nearly as well it was like 600
views or something yeah and I think that
like if if I was a little bit less less
experienced with the failure of my P or
failure right or the attempts of my past
three years I might might have been like
oh man like no one likes me you know no
one likes this next video you know and I
think uh the falling in love with the
process and kind of doing what you want
before everything else and figuring out
the business stuff afterwards seems like
the only way to actually keep the whole
thing interesting and sustainable I mean
it's just like it's I'm not like I'm not
some Sensei Master but it it seems all
very logical and rational to understand
the idea of like how to improve at
anything it's incremental it's
experimenting it's doing that thing a
lot to gather a bunch of information on
what you like what you're good at what
works and then constantly doing it more
to slowly improve and so again if we're
specifically talking about like YouTube
or like growing a Channel or like
getting good at drawing you know like
I'm just beating a dead horse it's just
like you just got to do it a lot and the
only way you're going to do it a lot is
if you like to do it yeah and
obviously you know if someone was paying
me a million dollars to like pick up
trash I'd probably pick up trash but I
wouldn't [ __ ] like to do it but i' do
it so if you're making a bunch of money
obviously it's going to help and if
you're getting a lot of views and people
are screaming they love your work and
things that obviously helps
but you know that's not realistic and
especially if you're starting out you
just got to do it a lot and the only way
to do it a lot is to be into it and so I
think a lot of people Force it you know
like again this isn't sometimes you
don't know what you like and it goes
back and forth um but you got to find
out you know okay is this something I'm
willing to put time and effort into and
if it is then just have fun with it and
experiment for like two years and then
if you get opportunities like I said
before then res situate but I mean we're
also just cursed especially the short
form I mean the world is just cursed
with um how fast things should happen
you know monetary success viewership
success it's like people like want to do
it for like three months and then they
give up or shorter you know so it's
like there's a lot of like horribleness
in the world that um like that
perspective I think is sort of a little
of a virus yeah yeah well and uh I think
that part of this is also just adapting
to whatever medium that you're in CU
yeah like if we lived in an isolated
environment just ourselves we might just
paint we might just do like the art that
we want to do but part of being a person
I think Beyond just the survival stuff
is Commerce and having to say and do
things that get people to watch and you
know are entertained by you um and that
compromise I think could be a little bit
uh existentially scary because you have
to uh compromise like your soul or the
thing that you know you would be doing
otherwise and I've talked to a lot of
people about this where like art brain
and business brain are almost two
completely different things you know
yeah where the act of painting you have
to be completely out of it to do a good
painting and when you're making a video
Everything has to be considered and yeah
uh be able to jump between the two
different mindsets I think is pretty
complicated totally um and it takes
practice and but it's fun it's like that
I like that it's like you're switching
between different hats like constantly
and it's fun and multitasking but yeah
it's not it's not for everyone and like
all these things I'm saying like I don't
want to sound like a know- at all like I
struggle with it all the time still I
mean like even talking about learning
new things and trying to get like quick
validation or quick success like I'm a
victim of it also like with the podcast
I thought I was just going to like be
able to do that and it was awesome for a
lot of reasons but it wasn't sustainable
in a lot of the intention I put into it
or even you know like short form for
example like I haven't really like gone
into it and like it's a really great
outlet and if you're thinking of
business to like really sort of like
start having like original short form
content all these things I'm like ah I
don't want to do it and I'm like being
an old Crogan about it so it's like twe
each his own
but yeah I think
the and it's like I keep thinking it's
like how many times can you listen to
successful people not that I'm that but
like I've listened to a zillian podcast
and everyone says the same thing I think
that's why I actually did what I did
because I would just listen to people be
like hey you just got to do it a lot and
like you got to like get better and just
like keep doing it it's like what's
another tangible way to get that across
I don't know you know like how do you
convince people to just like you just
got to work at it you just got to get
better you just got to try and if you
don't want to continue that's fine if
you get frustrated then keep doing it
and if you get too frustrated that you
want to stop then you're not going to
like make it but it's like you just got
to keep going yeah yeah well and just
doing the work and I think going like on
a broader level in the same way that
people might study drawing too much
before making paintings they might study
business too much before actually trying
to make a business they might listen to
too many [ __ ] like uh Andrew huberman
podcasts or too many like business e
podcasts before you know they're
thinking about like what would Jeff
Bezos do you know versus like you know
how do you like edit a video to to
Market something or whatever exactly
yeah yeah and then you never actually
start and do anything you just like
think about it that's the other thing
that I always talk about is like
everyone has good ideas you know anyone
can think about a path to take or like
oh this might be the best route you know
anyone could think of
like a mediumly unique version of that
individual genre or painting or business
or brand but it's less than 1% of people
who actually try it you know that's what
I'm saying it's like everyone can talk
and everyone can think about doing
things but not a lot of people start and
actually execute consistently and I get
it because it is a risk if you don't
have a disposable income you know like
it doesn't make sense to start that and
drop everything that's why a lot of the
people I know who have like transitioned
sort of in their more adult life sort of
had a full-time job and then outside of
it hustled and gr grinded you know which
is like very realistic and sounds like
the safe way to go um I was a little
different because I had different
circumstances but like that's super
realistic and then if it does pick up
after doing things for a while then you
can say hey I'm going to stop the
full-time job and dedicate all my time
to this still a risk but with you know
um more confidence to um continue sort
of penetrating yeah yeah and then in the
baby steps as well yeah exactly like
yeah the person we were just hanging
with was asking me like where my YouTube
channel transitioned and like when I
started to become full-time and it's
like it was years you know there was no
day or night it was like a snowball over
years three I was grinding at YouTube
for three and a half years before I made
a dollar yeah and then and that only
gave me we were saying before that only
gave
me you know um a spot in the race to
even attempt attempt to be in the game
you know it's like I was just waiting in
line for the actual line you know and
then I was like okay I could try so yeah
it's like it looking back you could
pinpoint spots or like oh this was a big
deal or like this video was tangibly
tangibly a big deal moment but
everything that led up to that was like
years and and still now it's like I'm
still going up and down and up and down
and trying to figure out what my next
moves are and strategizing so yeah well
and it takes a lot of work and it's it's
you want but you're still doing other
freelance jobs totally yeah yeah just
like help pay the bills I'm taking yeah
videography editing jobs for sure when
the money's right and like it's it's
worth it for sure I mean there's no
reason I you know it's a quick job like
I almost
idolize like the nineo fs or like
In-N-Out jobs you know where like you
work really hard and then you get to
stop working hard yeah you know that the
part of the curse of us and these people
who are in these positions are like or
for me at least it's like I go to bed
thinking of things I need to do and some
of it's exciting and dopamine feeling
but a lot of it's just like worrying
what I need to do endless to-do list
wake up thinking that and go to sleep
thinking that you know there is no off
time maybe I'm not in my studio but yeah
it's always running being able to cope
with those emotions is ultimately like
what leads people to become the people
that everyone looks up to you know it's
like the ability to just push past that
you know resistance or struggle or
whatever you want to call it to just go
and do the work like do the editing do
the filming yeah you know do the
Creative thing take little risks yeah
again going back to the idea that I had
a video that did well recently if I
stopped there's no point in even doing
that video video in the first place you
know exactly it's all about the next one
totally it's always about the next one
and that's the thing you never arrive
like you're saying you never you never
reach success you know like I'm at a
bigger scale than I am than when I
started but I I wouldn't consider myself
successful I'm just able to continue
doing it you know and that is the true
success is that I'm I'm I'm able to keep
going like that's the only goal really
it's like yeah it would be sick to buy a
house yeah it be sick to do all these
but like the true goal at its core is
just to keep keep it alive and maintain
my freedom within well I I think it
relates to drawing kind of like an
existential sense because you need so
much Faith at the very beginning of your
art journey to even keep going like to
go into a place like the Watts or you
know some fancy art school and you see
somebody doing this amazing work and
they're 30 years in it's like oh I have
30 years of work before I can even do
that you know and you're doing these you
know like stent level drawings or
whatever you have to have some amount of
faith and optimism for the future in
order to just keep keep going yeah and
it's like it's really nuanced it's hard
to like really exemplify what we're
talking about cuz we're talking very
specifically about you know my path your
path our sort of world but there you
know it's not all how do I say
this it's not all doom and gloom like
it's all it's all very like low stress
low stakes you know it's like just and
we're we're hyperfocused cuz I like to
talk about and you like to talk about
like the business side of it which is
important but like there's so many ways
to make money and there's so many things
to do you just have to
like you just have to try things and I
think I feel like so contradictory
and hypocritical but it's like you you
almost just have to like do a bunch of
random things and then see what kind of
works you know like if your goal is to
be an art YouTuber okay there's a lot of
things you look up how to do it how to
get better and you could sort of stay on
that path for hopefully a long time and
then eventually get there but like if
you just like art or if you just like
video making like there's sort of like a
fractal infinite amount of things to do
those things it doesn't have to be
become a YouTuber you know you know like
most people who are watching this are
not trying to do what we're doing you
know they're trying to like make a comic
book or they're trying to like even just
like go to work in the morning and just
like do their graphic their graphic
design job or even their accounting job
you know and I think it's like whatever
goal that you're working towards there's
like fundamental laws of just trying to
be creative and be and accomplish things
that carry over whether it's YouTube
videos or poetry or music or whatever
and pushing through it and taking risks
and all that kind of stuff can make you
like a lot more legit at your Law Firm
or something totally I mean you're just
going to feel more confident also the
the great thing about art specifically
is like seeing yourself improve is
pretty addicting like that that was
probably
especially I mean just improving
anything is like you want to just get
better I mean it feels good especially
if it's something you want to do and you
see yourself improving you're
like I will never stop you know if this
is like the trend I'm going to keep
going but like specifically for like the
traditional oil painting like my more
graphic stuff back in the day
was I was getting better skills to make
the art but it wasn't really like a
language it was just like more puzzle
engineering like coming up with
characters and understanding lighting
and like the more fundamentals of
drawing but like entering the world of
like traditional oil painting and like
academic drawing that was like super
addicting and I go towards that because
there's so much sort of feedback loop of
improvement like you know like you can
really improve quickly or you know it's
challenging and so when you do see
yourself level up you're like oh yes it
feels great it's very self-gratifying
and that for a lot of people I think is
all they need they don't need the money
like if you're just working at 95 and
you want to make a comic book you know
on the side like during weekends and you
end up making a cool thing you're going
to feel good so again bringing it all
back you just got to start you got to
try because you're going to you're going
to be amped it's really hard to like put
in a lot of effort you got to be really
you know messed up to like put a lot of
effort in something and not feel good
about it especially if it's something
you want to do we're both tring fans of
like wave of kings and stuff it's like
Journey before destination and it's a
cliche and it's it's but did he
trademark that I don't that's like a
very normal thing it's like Journey
everyone says that or like take the beat
and Offroad path or something yeah but
yeah it's a mantra of that having 30
million subscribers is not the goal like
if you had that tomorrow you'd be
ecstatic for sure like a day guess what
after four or five months your new
normal yeah yeah yeah yeah a new normal
and I think which is psycho to think but
it's true well and uh trying to find you
know the love and the enjoyment and just
like learning how to render a video you
know or paying attention to like sound
settings or something all that kind of
stuff just trying to make the best thing
you possibly can with the tools in front
of you totally I mean I know about you
but I I watch my videos more than anyone
I mean once they're out it's done but
like I'm so excited for the most part
making videos to like that's why I
started cuz I like to see the process of
how things are made yeah and then I like
to make things so I was like oh pretty
obvious connection there and so yeah
it's like Euphoria editing the video and
seeing the video and like telling the
story and watched it a million times and
then I don't of course but like it gets
me amped it's not just like making
something for an audience no yeah I mean
there's again that intention pie chart
sure it's for a little of that but I I
need to like it first you know it's get
a video I want to make and I I think it
always comes back down yeah to just
doing the work and you know just like
and it on an more existential level
again going back to drawing it's like go
back to the fundamentals you know study
the Spheres and cylind which I didn't I
mean specifically I need to literally do
that cuz I I I skipped that I tried to
take the quick route and you can see it
in a lot of my art a lot of my videos
even now like my skills like I I skipped
a lot of fundamentals anyways tangent
but yeah that yeah you just got to yeah
slow and steady try your best everyone's
screwed though you know with the Advent
of AI and everything instantly I mean
we're already instant creatures but it's
hard I mean so you have to really
traditional media art specifically is
like it's almost foreign in how slow
yeah the practice
is actual operation of drawing and
painting but also like the the
Improvement Loop and the the gratifying
the self-gratification loop so it's just
a different sort of
perhaps you
know you know marry go around that a lot
of people in their normal lives don't go
to but it's really Des and people are
only getting more amped about it like
people are only getting more into
drawing I think you know it's just like
books you think like oh people are
reading books anymore year-over year
there's more books being made than the
year before the crazy I was talking to
Stan Stan's best year was last year
crazy it's crazy that's crazy insane
that's really good I mean that's a good
business mine has not been like that
I've been really like this but
again the goal isn't to I'm not in the
scaling position per se I'm more of like
how much better can I do of a job in my
output right rather than like you know I
would like employees and things but yeah
it's I got a question for you cuz I
think something else that's important
for Fine Art specifically and I talk
about this a lot at my um my figure
drawing sessions is like the rate at
Improvement everyone it's not this you
know it's not a I don't know what
mathematical s cosine this is like
exponent it's it's plateauing it's like
stairs I think is more realistic it's
like you level up and then you do the
same thing you train really hard and
it's all the same and you're like what
the [ __ ] you're like what the hell I'm
working so hard but then you'll level up
again and it will be a big level up and
I've I've felt and witnessed these in
myself and it's like oh my gosh dude
like something clicks and you level up
and then you plateau again a lot and I
think that's really interesting and it's
and it's more challenging I think to
continue if it if it were different you
know if it was just like really obvious
super slow um increasing then it would
be easier for people to keep doing it
because it's like oh it's almost a
guarantee if I'm going to get better day
every day it's like every 6 months you
get better what do you think about that
those things and those plateauing I
think it it's like almost The Universe
telling you
to stop caring so much about what's
happening with other people you know
yeah cuz the act of learning how to draw
or learning how to do anything play the
piano takes a lot of time and effort
just being bad at it it's Mo it's like
99% bad and I I think the way to
actually learn how to draw is to just
step outside yourself as much as
possible and just be okay with who you
are as much as you possibly can you know
and it it's pretty like uh humbling for
people to like go into a place like the
Watts or going to a place you know like
dude oh my God I was literally like felt
like slapped in the face by God I went
in there be really good at something and
then to humble yourself in a way uh to
actually go and do the work I I think
it's that's the hard part like it'd be I
think it's harder for me now to go and
learn drawing than it was when I was in
my early 20s I was like I have more
things that I'm egotistical about now
than I you know I agree same with me and
I've sort of given up that hope of being
like a really really
like high-end fine artist like I I'm
going to keep painting I'm going to keep
trying to push my skills but it I my
like expectations are a lot lower lower
and not to say that's like sad but it's
just like I have so many other things um
and I don't really know where I'm going
with that but um yeah the comparison is
the really really hard part and in
business in your colleagues and it is
really hard and obviously the easy
answer or what you should do is just
focus on yourself but it's easier said
than done and it's like how do you do
that you just got to know what you want
to do and if you're not doing it as good
as you thought you were then take a real
look at yourself and say how can I
switch things up and do it better one of
my worst traits and I could look back
and hate myself for it not actually but
like is that I I think I'm overconfident
a lot and I still am in a probably a lot
of ways but how I did things I was like
oh yeah this is like how you do it the
best and I'm great at this and I don't
need to like or I don't need other
people's feedback or opinions and like I
would take it but I don't think I
absorbed it yeah and it didn't get like
internalized and only like years later
that I realize like oh wow I actually
you know there's way better ways to do
this or this is you know this has
actually
been been had doing wrong for a while
and I learned how to fix it way later
than I should have does that make sense
so yeah I have as I've gotten older I'm
like wow I really need to like listen to
other people's opinion about either my
work business Str structure strategy
anything you know so I was kind of like
two tunnel vision in the beginning and I
was doing fine so was easy to do that
but I'm like oh I I wish I had some more
feedback well and again going back to
the beginning of the conversation
there's a balance there because if you
listen to too much feedback then you
just never do anything totally I think
it's like or you never do things you
never learn for yourself yeah yeah for
for me I tell like the thing that I tell
people is like I made a point of like
surrounding myself with like what I
perceive as like the best art teachers
and business people that literally you
did that and and it's like it didn't
make me want to draw more it actually
like discouraged me you know because
it's like so much to live up to and it's
like uh and it's it's an internal thing
I'm not trying to blame those people but
I think that trying to get your
motivation structures in your brain
working takes a lot of uh just operating
at your own level like not looking up or
down or wherever for motivation just
looking like oh yeah this is what I can
do and you know like this is obvious not
an exact um example but what probably
would have been better than surround
yourself with Jeff and proo even though
that is extremely valuable let's not be
naive what would probably have helped
you more is if you surround yourself
with equal hungry people to get better
absolutely you know what I mean that are
grinding with you at the same level to
improve yeah rather than just you know
proximity to the best yeah and that's
hard you need to get friends you need to
get like minded people that's where like
the communities are important but right
well like like it's part of the reason I
lived in the van too it's just like you
know it's like you know to try and step
outside of all that hero worship and
just kind of just do my own thing and uh
the crazy part about this is like there
are so many different versions of
success and we can look at someone like
Jeff or Stan or whoever as being these
like paradigms of what it means to be
like a YouTuber or a fine artist or
whatever but ultimately it's about like
you know like you can be successful in
completely different ways doing the
opposite of what they would tell you to
do 100% absolutely I mean think of can't
imagine I mean I can because I just
filmed a documentary on stand but like
everyone's looking up to him or this in
this example and we're and Jeff but like
they're probably also looking outside
and looking like oh what can I you know
so it's it never ends yeah and yeah it's
a I go back it's like again it's so easy
to say these things and you've heard
these people rant about like this so
much what are the tangible ways what are
the real in-person ways to you know stop
comparing become more disciplined
patient it's like I don't know you got
to find out for yourself um everyone's
different you know whether it's like
exercising working
out making videos being grateful yeah
learning getting talking with people
you're really good at connecting with
artists like you connect artists but I
think you're also just like open with to
talking with anyone and that's probably
a good trait to have you know because
you I think if you want to
become Jeff Watts the best you got to
only listen to one person do things one
way but that's not for everyone if you
want to get a bunch of perspectives and
try a bunch of different things and then
find what work you have to you know be
more in your corner of well and and
again I think it just comes down to what
you want personally and what you want to
do and I think that uh for me my version
of small successes started out as doing
things on proo channel and then see
seeing those do well and being like okay
I can all I have to do to figure out
that stuff doing well on my own channel
is just doing the work so it's you know
figuring out right you understood the
formula yeah you just had to try it you
know conversation for a different time
is how do I find out what I want to do
you know what I mean because that's what
a lot of people struggle with yeah what
to actually do in the first place what
do they actually like which is perhaps
episode 2.5 absolutely yeah when I come
to New York next yeah but that's like
that's a real thing cuz like I mean
that's what kids deal with in college
you know they're forced to like pick
they're forced to pick what they want to
do with their life it's like what the
[ __ ] how would you ever know at 18 yeah
well for for you it was painting and
then it turned into video making but it
was like it was always video making and
it was always just like what I was into
I did YouTube I had YouTube channels
about skateboarding about fingerboarding
about video games about Nerf guns yeah
and so video was just
a um appendage of what I was into
graffiti was the next thing and that
just snowballed and I kept the channel
the same I did graffiti then I did
street art then I did murals and then
that was canvases and painting and
traditional artwork and so that was the
lineage but yeah it's always just what
I've been into and you know what maybe I
won't be painting in 5 years maybe I'll
just like do enough and be excited and
I'll find something else that I'll be
into who knows you know like I'm not I'm
not beholden to like the sacred idea of
painting or anything it's just you know
why would I do anything that I don't
want again money is involved you
sometimes have to do what you don't want
to do but if I have the ability to be
free why would I drown in painting
content if it wasn't working anymore
yeah if I didn't like it also I'm saying
well and part of it again I think it
goes back to not tying your identity to
being a painter or an artist and just
doing it following the interest exactly
I I I I've been reading a lot of rck
Rubin yeah and him talking about how
like if you have two options or five
different options and one is more
efficient financially and the other has
more interest always choose the one with
more interest because you in terms of
just pure longevity and the ability to
make something that people care about
it's actually probably going to make
more money you're right yeah you want to
tell people uh just like a piece of
advice like something you you would
recommend to your 20-year-old self like
we could break down the idea real quick
of like executing something and
following through with it yeah whether
you don't do it again but like I was
very sort of um what's the word
pragmatic and organized with a project
before starting I knew it what I wanted
to make I prepared what I needed and how
to make said thing and then I worked
hard and was patient to maintain a level
of quality to make that thing and
through that there's so many times you
want to stop or you think it's shitty or
people won't like it but I always like
kind of finish so I think executing is
like really important and I don't know
what the Webster definition of executing
is but like seen something through like
Go the whole yard and M you know have
the same sort of um focus throughout the
whole thing and yeah but yeah I don't
know the advice is just do it just do it
yeah right shy buff you want to tell
people how to follow you and yeah sure I
mean I'm slooh subscribe to my YouTube
channel and uh subscribe to Christian
because he is really tapping into
awesome artists and getting their
perspective so I think that's valuable
and whether you're getting 600 views or
6 million
there's at least a few real people who
are benefiting from this so I think keep
going
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