Episode 19 Part 1 Tomas Björkman - Education for societal shifts
Summary
TLDRThe transcript is from an episode of the 'Name It' podcast hosted by Jonas Oganowski, featuring guest Thomas Borman, a social entrepreneur, founder of the EET Foundation, and author. They discuss the concept of collective agency, contrasting it with natural elements like oxygen, and how societal constructs like money and markets are human inventions that can be changed through collective action. Borman emphasizes the importance of lifelong learning and inner growth for individuals and organizations. The conversation touches on the need for education to foster skills and capacities to meet global challenges and the UN's sustainable development goals. It also explores the potential for societal transformation due to rapid technological advancements, suggesting that education should prepare individuals not just for the current world but also for a future that may require a new worldview and social structure.
Takeaways
- 🌿 **Nature Connection**: The importance of early connection with nature and its influence on personal development and societal change.
- 🔢 **Academic to Business**: Transitioning from academic pursuits in mathematics and physics to a career in entrepreneurship and banking, reflecting on the limitations of traditional economic models.
- 💡 **Lifelong Growth**: The significance of not only lifelong learning but also lifelong growth and maturation, both cognitively and emotionally, for individuals and society.
- 🌱 **Personal Development**: The role of leadership development consultants in highlighting the importance of personal growth within business and its broader applications.
- 🤝 **Corporate Culture**: The impact of corporate culture on organizational success and the necessity for an environment that fosters positive culture development.
- 🌐 **Global Constructs**: Recognizing that constructs like money, markets, and nation-states are human-made and can be changed through collective agency.
- 🛒 **Market Myth**: The metaphor of money versus oxygen to illustrate the difference between natural necessities and human constructs that are subject to change.
- 🧐 **Rational Limitations**: Acknowledging the value and limitations of rational scientific worldviews and the need to complement them with other perspectives for a comprehensive understanding.
- 🌟 **Societal Shift**: The potential for a significant societal shift due to rapid technological advancements, necessitating new skills and capacities for individuals.
- 📚 **Education for Change**: The need for education systems to prepare individuals for a world that is constantly evolving and to foster creativity and critical thinking.
- 🌈 **Inner Development Goals**: The connection between personal development and the United Nations' sustainable development goals, emphasizing the role of inner growth in achieving societal objectives.
Q & A
What is the main theme of the podcast episode with Thomas Borman?
-The main theme of the podcast episode is exploring the importance of lifelong learning, inner growth, and maturation in organizations, management, and society, as well as discussing the metaphorical relationship between oxygen and money concerning collective agency and societal change.
What is Thomas Borman's background before he became a social entrepreneur?
-Thomas Borman was an entrepreneur and investment banker, having built a banking business in Scandinavia and later in Switzerland. He also served as chairman of the banking group in Scandinavia and was on the board of directors of a Swiss bank.
What is the EET Foundation that Thomas Borman founded?
-The EET Foundation, founded by Thomas Borman, is a social entrepreneurship initiative based in Stockholm. The foundation focuses on the connection between personal inner growth and societal change.
What are the Inner Development Goals (IDGs) framework?
-The Inner Development Goals (IDGs) framework is a concept that Thomas Borman is involved in, which is related to the United Nations' sustainable development goals. It emphasizes the importance of personal development and societal change in meeting global challenges.
How does Thomas Borman view the difference between oxygen and money?
-Thomas Borman views oxygen as a natural necessity that humans cannot change or do without, whereas money is a human invention that could be changed or removed if collectively decided upon by society. He points out that there is a misunderstanding in society that planetary boundaries are negotiable, while market forces are obeyed without question, when in fact, the opposite is true.
What is the concept of 'Collective agency' mentioned by Thomas Borman?
-Collective agency refers to the ability of a group or society to come together and make decisions or changes that affect the collective whole. Borman discusses how society has become less adept at exercising collective agency, which is crucial for addressing global challenges and enacting societal change.
What does Thomas Borman suggest is the role of education in fostering skills to meet global challenges?
-Borman suggests that education needs to foster not just knowledge and skills but also the capacities for lifelong learning, personal growth, and maturation. It should also encourage a critical and creative mindset that allows individuals to understand and potentially reinvent societal constructs like money and markets.
What is the significance of the 'social imaginaries' or 'Collective imaginaries' in Thomas Borman's discussion?
-Social or Collective imaginaries are the shared beliefs, values, and constructs that societies operate on, such as money, nation-states, marriage, and religion. Borman discusses how these are human inventions that have taken on a reality of their own, shaping societal norms and behaviors, but also how they are changeable if society chooses to do so.
How does Thomas Borman connect personal development with societal change?
-Borman connects personal development with societal change by emphasizing the importance of inner growth and maturity in individuals as a prerequisite for creating a positive corporate and societal culture. He argues that personal development can lead to a more caring and aware society, capable of addressing global challenges and enacting change.
What is the relevance of Thomas Borman's discussion on the market and economy to the field of education?
-Borman's discussion is relevant to education as it highlights the need for educational systems to prepare individuals for a rapidly changing world. This includes understanding the constructed nature of economic systems and the potential for reinvention, encouraging a mindset that is adaptable, innovative, and capable of critical thinking.
What does Thomas Borman propose as the starting point for a new approach to education?
-Borman proposes that education should start by making individuals aware that the world is shifting and that societal constructs are open to reimagining and recreation. This awareness can empower people to take on a more creative role in shaping the future, fostering a sense of agency and participation in societal development.
Outlines
🎙️ Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
The podcast host, Jonas Oganowski, introduces the theme of the show, which is about exploring deeper meanings and insights related to guests' passions and professions. The episode focuses on reimagining education with Thomas Borman, a social entrepreneur and founder of various initiatives. Borman's background includes entrepreneurship, investment banking, and authoring books. The discussion aims to cover lifelong learning, inner growth, corporate culture, and the connection between personal development and societal change.
🚀 From Business to Social Entrepreneurship
Thomas Borman shares his transition from a successful career in banking and business to focusing on personal and societal development. After selling his banking business, he established the EET Foundation in Stockholm to explore the link between inner growth and societal change. His journey was influenced by leadership development consultants who highlighted the importance of lifelong growth and maturation, not just learning. Borman emphasizes the need for nurturing corporate cultures and the significance of emotional and cognitive development for a healthy democracy.
🌱 The Impact of Personal Development on Business and Society
Borman discusses his realization of the importance of personal development in business and its potential application to societal culture. He talks about the influence of organizational consultants who demonstrated the significance of corporate culture and the role of management in fostering a positive environment. He questions why society does not prioritize lifelong growth and maturation in the same way businesses do, and how this awareness can extend to caring for the planet and future generations.
💭 The Constructed Nature of the Market and Economy
The conversation delves into the constructed nature of the market and economy, contrasting them with natural elements like oxygen. Borman argues that while humans are dependent on oxygen, money and markets are human inventions that can be changed. He emphasizes that recognizing this allows us to understand our collective power to shape our economic and social systems, as opposed to viewing them as unchangeable facts of life.
🤝 Collective Agency vs. Individual Power
Borman discusses the concept of collective agency, explaining that while individuals have limited power to change certain societal constructs like money, collectively we have the ability to transform these systems. He laments the decline in collective sense-making and the importance of education in fostering the skills necessary to meet global challenges. The discussion highlights the need for education to develop skills that support sustainable development goals.
🌐 The Role of Collective Imaginaries in Society
The host and Borman explore the idea of social or collective imaginaries, which are the shared beliefs and constructs that enable society to function. They discuss how these constructs, such as nation-states, marriage, and money, are human inventions that serve a purpose and can be changed. Borman stresses the importance of recognizing our collective power to shape these agreements and the role of education in preparing individuals for this reality.
🔄 Reinventing Social Constructs and Education
The discussion turns to the possibility of reinventing social constructs like money and education. Borman suggests that we are at a transition point in history where we can fundamentally change our worldview and collective reality. He believes that education should not only socialize individuals into the current system but also empower them with a critical and creative mindset to understand and shape the world they live in.
📚 Inner Development Goals and Sustainable Development
Borman talks about the Inner Development Goals (IDGs) project related to the United Nations' Sustainable Development Goals. He emphasizes the rapid technological development and its potential to transform society deeply. The conversation suggests that education systems should prepare young people for a future where they might need to reimagine and recreate societal structures, including the economy and the market.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Collective agency
💡Inner development
💡Sustainable development goals (SDGs)
💡Corporate culture
💡Market forces
💡Lifelong learning
💡Social entrepreneur
💡Club of Rome
💡Rational scientific worldview
💡Technological development
💡Global Environmental challenges
Highlights
The podcast explores the deeper meanings, metaphors, and insights underlying various passions, projects, and professions.
Thomas Borman, a social entrepreneur and founder of the EET Foundation, discusses lifelong learning and inner growth in organizations and society.
Borman emphasizes the importance of nurturing environments that facilitate effective and healthy corporate cultures.
The connection between inner and outer personal development and individual and collective growth is a key topic of the discussion.
Healthy democracy and societal change are linked to the metaphor of oxygen and money, illustrating what we collectively believe can be reinvented.
Borman's background in mathematics, physics, and business led him to focus on the connection between personal development and societal change.
The importance of corporate culture and its impact on society is discussed, along with the role of leadership in creating a positive environment.
Borman argues that the market and economy are human constructs that can be changed through collective agency.
The concept of 'social imaginaries' or 'collective imaginaries' is introduced to describe the shared beliefs and agreements that shape society.
The potential for reinventing societal constructs like money and markets is discussed, emphasizing human agency in change.
Borman suggests that education should foster awareness of the shifting world and the possibility of reimagining societal structures.
The Inner Development Goals (IDGs) framework is highlighted as a tool for aligning personal growth with the UN's Sustainable Development Goals.
The discussion touches on the limitations of rational scientific worldviews and the need for a broader perspective to address global challenges.
Borman shares his perspective on the rapid technological development and its implications for the future of education and societal structures.
The importance of preparing young people for a future where they can recreate and reimagine societal norms is emphasized.
The podcast concludes with a call for a form of education that empowers individuals to understand their role in shaping the world.
Transcripts
money is under our Collective agency
whereas clean air and oxygen is not but
the sad thing is that in our everyday
lives it seems like we have mixed this
up and with that we actually believe the
opposite that we somehow believe that
the planetary boundaries are up for
negotiation whereas the market forces we
just have to obey when it's of course
the the opposite
that's welcome to another episode of the
name it podcast I am your host jonis
oganowski this podcast is all about
exploring and naming the deeper meanings
metaphors and insights underneath our
guests passions projects and professions
I sit down with people from all walks of
life to find out what brings them alive
this is the fourth in a special series
exploring the reimagining of Education
rather than prescribing answers or
singular Solutions my aim is to talk to
people from all areas of Education to
learn and explore with my guests
emerging questions challenges and
opportunities this is the first of a
two-part episode with my guest today
Thomas Borman after many years in
business as an entrepreneur and
investment banker Thomas bjorkman is now
a social entrepreneur and the founder of
the EET foundation in Stockholm he is
also the co-founder of the research
institute perspectiva in London of the
co-creation Loft and the media platform
emerge in Berlin the 29 k.org digital
personal development platform and the
inner development goals or idg's
framework he is a member of the club of
Rome and a fellow of the royal Swedish
Academy of engineering science he's the
author of three books the market myth
published in 2016 the Nordic secret
together with Lana Rachel Anderson in
2017 and the world we create in 2019
Thomas divides his time between London
Stockholm and Berlin we talk about the
importance of lifelong learning and
inner growth and maturation in
organizations management and in society
nurturing environments that can
facilitate effective and healthy
corporate cultures the connection
between inner and outer personal
development and individual and
Collective growth and capacity we talk
about healthy democracy and societal
change oxygen and money as a metaphor
for what we collectively believe we can
reinvent Collective agency and
Collective sense making the value and
limitation of rational scientific World
Views what skills knowledge and
capacities does education need to Foster
to meet Global and environmental
challenges and societal shifts and how
inner development goals are important in
our meeting the un's sustainable
development goals and many other topics
please welcome Thomas
borkman welcome Thomas to the podcast
it's really great I'm I'm very honored
to have you on have been following your
work for a little while and and thought
it'd be great to have a conversation so
so thank you for coming on thank you
thank you Jonas for having me on thank
you so i' I'd like to start for for the
listeners who are not familiar with your
work and and some of your background um
if you could give a bit of a sort of an
origin story or a description of uh the
work that you do maybe a little bit
about your background and how that's
brought you to to your current interest
in broader systemic ch change um to to
meet some of the global challenges sure
sure thank you for giving me the
opportunity so um uh I'm Swedish uh uh I
was born in 1958 in a small Swedish
rural town and grew up very much on on
the countryside and had the opportunity
to connect very early with nature and
with
environment um realized quite early in
life that I had a talent for mathematics
and physics so uh I was the first in my
family to go to university and I studied
mathematics and physics and those
subjects came fairly easy to me so I
thought that I would uh pursue an
academic career in in physics but then
also B the business world was calling me
so I changed quite abruptly from the
academic environment into the business
world and have been a Serial Entre r
preneur
in it uh property and in
banking uh built a banking business in
Scandinavia and later in in Switzerland
which I sold um in the beginning of the
2000s had to commit to remain as
chairman of the banking group in
Scandinavia for some years and being on
the board of directors of the Swiss bank
for some years but when that contract
ended in 2006 I was very happy to leave
both the financial world and the
business world and I had the opportunity
to set up my own foundation in Stockholm
the Oak Island Foundation stiff is and
ear
credit uh and really try to focus both
intellectually but also very practically
on the connection between personal inner
growth and
development and societal
change
and when when I started the foundation
some almost 15 years ago now then this
was very
exotic inner development and societal
change most people did not understand at
all what what I was uh getting at and
one could ask ones how did I come into
contact into these areas and and why did
this start to interest
me and uh the background there is that I
had the luck and the privilege to work
with some very talented leadership
development
Consultants who showed me and my
management team in the bank the uh
importance of not just lifelong learning
uh but also lifelong growth and
maturation some some people in the
educational space make a diff difference
between horizontal learning and vertical
development so the horizontal learning I
was very familiar with but then starting
to explore with myself and my management
team uh how we
could help each other through the help
of these very
talented uh leadership development
Consultants to grow both cognitively and
uh
emotionally and that of course helped us
in the business world but we all also
noticed how this helped us in our family
lives and and and private lives and it
also opened up at least for myself the
horizons to care
about more parts of the world not just
the business world but the world outside
the society
care about the planet care about future
Generations so um that was a very eye
openening experience to me coming from a
very natural science and business world
to go through that uh
process and
then uh of course it's very easy to ask
on themselves than the question as I
did if we in the business world at least
in part of the business World realize
the importance of not just lifelong
learning but lifelong growth and in a
maturation and we even spend money and
valuable time in supporting this
development in our top management how
come then that we are not at all talking
about that in
society so in society we are starting to
talk about lifelong learning of facts
and skills but supporting this General
development
Journey we are not really talking
about and then also uh having the
opportunity to work with some other uh
also very gifted uh consultants in
organizational
development who showed us the importance
about uh corporate
culture and how important it is for any
larger uh Corporation to really pay
attention to uh your corporate culture
and also realizing that you cannot as a
management uh manage or Implement a
certain corporate culture but you can
certainly try to create a an
environment which can facilitate the
growth of a positive corporate
culture and again asking the same
question if we in the business World
realize the important of corporate
culture and how diff difficult it can be
to handle that in terms of for example
when you're are trying to
merge different organizations and and
creating a multicultural even corporate
culture uh how come that we are not at
all talking about societal culture in
the same way and that one of the most
important aspects of political
leadership might be to uh not command or
Implement a culture but create a holding
culture a holding environment in which
uh uh a positive Multicultural Society
might grow so that was really my
starting point into the inner worlds of
us individuals in the inner world of of
society um and then also starting to
explore the connection between the two
there are organizational Consultants who
po point out that
um in order to be able to
hold replicate and
develop uh a deeper more complex more
perhaps Multicultural corporate culture
that puts demands on the participants in
that uh Corporation to have developed
those inner capacities to actually be
able to hold that culture so there is
somehow a connection between the
corporate culture or the societal
culture and the
maturation of those who participate in
that culture and if you draw that out to
to the end then one might even argue
that in order for us to be able to have
a
healthy uh democracy you you need a
certain
level of the emotional and cognitive
capacities within the um uh Society for
that to be able to operate so that that
was my background and the starting point
and my inroad into this very interesting
field of personal development and
societal change yeah thank you I find it
a really interesting uh story and and
sort of pathway that you've you
journeyed through um sort of coming from
uh your origins in Sweden and and I
think growing up on a on a farm in
Sweden and then the interest in
engineering and Mathematics and and then
Finance um very much that sort of
corporate systemic world and you some
could argue comes with a particular
world view that can sort of grow through
those experiences and those approaches
yes um
and and and now finding yourself sort of
looking more towards those inner
Dimensions not at the exclusion of those
outer um systemic Dimensions but the how
do they play that part how do they how
are they important
in um supporting the growth of of you
know an equitable uh Multicultural
sustainable future um through
um
while not getting sort of Lost in just
trying to to develop um those those
outer goals um and I I think this might
be a
really continue keep going no I was just
going to say that I've always been very
curious and that was what draw me into
the into Academia in in the first place
um and I've always been fascinated on of
how we can understand uh our world and
also the the strength of
the uh scientific perspective the the
strength of the Natural Science
perspective um but I also discovered
fairly early in business that
the um classical neoclassical economic
uh
models uh that I studied at at
University I also studied some economics
before switching into business that
those models that try to
model uh the E the economy or the market
with um natural science tools that they
are not that helpful in really
understanding what is what is going on
so you could say that through my efforts
of of trying to be an entrepreneur in
the business bus world trying to
understand the market uh I found the
traditional economic models very very
limited and found that it was much much
more helpful even from a business point
of view to try to understand uh uh the
business world and the market from a
sociological perspective and a
psychological perspective realizing that
we as actors in this world we are not
those super rational all
informed agents that the standard
economic models
presume we are but in reality we are
acting in very very different uh ways
and also the fact from sociology that
the market and the economy is is not a
natural system it's not something given
by nature or given by God it the the
market and the economy is a human
invention it's a human construct uh that
has been developing and developing
rapidly over the last couple of hundred
years only uh and when you see that and
you realize that even the free market
could be very very different
than yeah that that was my Approach in
and that's also why I called my the
first book I I uh wrote uh the world we
create putting an emphasis on that most
of the factors in our in our human
worlds that we encounter every day 80%
90% of of that
world is constructed by us humans and
and could be
different I could perhaps take that
that's quite abstract but I could take
um uh a concrete example there and
contrasting
the human world to to the Natural
World
um and say that um for me as an
individual in in the western world uh
today I to survive I need amongst many
other things I need air to breathe I
need
oxygen um and I need
money
um and for me as an
individual these two aspects of our
world that I need oxygen and that I need
money meets me as two two facts that I
need to relate
to but on a very fundamental basis there
is a huge difference between oxygen and
money so for
example even if the whole of the world
came together and decided that that all
humans on the world came together and
decided we do not want to be dependent
on oxygen any
longer we couldn't do anything about
that but if all of humanity came
together or even just a majority in a
nation state came together and said we
don't want to be dependent on money any
longer then money could be gone
tomorrow of course we would probably for
practical reasons have to replace it
with some other ways of of allocating
our goods and and services but money and
the market as we know it could be could
be gone
tomorrow um and so that's the invention
by by humankind side of it yeah and and
that we create it and and we create it
deliberately but also by a lot
of decisions that have just been been
taken by random through through history
we ended up with the market as it is now
it's important to say again that this
realization that the market is just a
collective invention it is part of our
Collective
imaginary that does not help me as an
individual because even with that
realization when
I go to the supermarket and I'm at the
at the cashier desk and the cashier
tells me this is what you need to
pay if I say well you know money is just
human invention it's just part of our
Collective imaginary that won't help me
because the police might come and and
put me in put me in jail for trying to
steal or even as for example Michael
Fuko has pointed out even other uh
societal functions and institution help
us to enforce this Collective imaginary
not just the law but if I totally in
insist on the world being just a f fasy
I could even be put in mental hospital
so even
our mental hospital system keeps
enforcing this Collective imaginary okay
so so why is this important well it's
important because then we realize that
even if we as individuals do not have
any agency in changing the collective
imaginary things like money on the
market we do have a we do have a
collective agency there are things that
we can change if we exercise Collective
agency that we can't change as
individuals and during the last couple
of decades I would say that we have been
generally in the Western World better
and better empowered in exercising our
individual agency whereas Collective
agency we become worse and worse at
exercising not the least because in
order to be able to exercise Collective
agency we first need to have Collective
sense making and Collective sense making
is breaking down today and of course we
can tie that to education in um in a
moment I should just make one final
comment on this on this metaphor and
that is so we realize that
money is under our Collective agency
whereas clean air and oxygen is not but
the sad thing is that in our everyday
lives it seems like we have mixed this
up and with that we actually believe the
opposite that we somehow believe that
the planetary boundaries are up for
negotiation whereas the market forces we
just have to obey when it's of course
the the opposite that's a very
interesting question we could we could
easily get lost in that would be very
tempting
[Music]
it's it's um some really interesting
metaphors and sort of tracks we went
down there um one term that I heard you
uh make was the uh was it the social
imaginaries or Collective imaginaries
um yeah yeah could you speak a little
bit
about yeah could you speak a little bit
about what those
are well it is really all of
those Collective
agreements explicit or
implicit or even subconscious agreements
that we have that makes the world
operate okay so gravit
gravitation and uh
oxygen would still be here on Earth even
if we didn't have any humans that in
order for our society to operate and
this was really the case even in the
very early dawn of of of humanity we
have invented a lot of things that we
collectively believe in
and because we collectively believe in
them they appear real to us and money is
one example but there are many many
other examples of course like Nation
States
presidents um
marriage to name a few and and all of
those are just human invention they they
do not exist in in nature they only
exist because we believe in those things
and that we
collectively enforce them some we
enforce by legal Arrangement and some
just by by
tradition and when we start to see that
that nation states marriage president
money and many many other things are
just sometimes
quite
random Collective
agreements that usually in history had
played an important role and might have
served some good purpose historically MH
or
just some good purpose for a dominating
minority who invented those things can
include King Kings and dukes and Bishops
and religions and of course religions
and God and all of those things are in
this space yes and usually we have
invented them because they
served some
purpose and religion for example some
some sociologists say and I think
there's a lot of Truth in that that we
invented religion the monotheistic
religions because that really helped us
to be able to coordinate larger groups
of people when we were moving from the
small hun together societies where
everyone knew each other and we tried to
form the first states and city states
with
perhaps tens or even hundreds of
thousands of people then you needed to
have new coordination mechanism to keep
those
societies uh together and their religion
played an important role yes just like
today keeping the world together the
market plays a very very important role
in in keeping that together and making
it possible for us to even have business
transactions internationally with even
with our
enemies it even in this conflict today
in in Europe we are still trading with
Russia yeah that's I mean it's a it's a
topic well out of my sphere of
understanding and and uh uh knowledge
but it's a good point there was
something I just wanted to sort of come
back to before we do move towards how
does all this relate entially to
education even in the broadest
conception and it does and it does
absolutely I think very much and it's
good kind of having built this sort of
foundation background which um I I did
want to do and that was just that coming
back to the the analogy and the
difference between oxygen and money um
and I just wanted to sort of um think
out loud a little bit here see what you
think about this and and you can respond
which is that um yes in very many ways
something like money um uh or debt um
when it was first conceived or started
to emerge because I believe in
some um some schools of thought there's
no such thing as a a a first single
appearance of any
new um phenomena or or or invention it
sort of happens of in a very emergent
distributed way absolutely absolutely
abely I'm sure we had sure we had some
sort of concept of of death even in
Stone Age absolutely Absolut yeah so I
was just thinking so that initially
there's it's it's invented um by humans
in this case um and so it has very
different qualities from Air so it's in
some way it could be that if there was
some kind of Collective Agreement and at
the moment I think it's granted that you
and me are sort of using this as thought
experiment not and we're aware of real
difficulties to to do something like
let's all agree absolutely that money
doesn't exist absolutely however um
after that those initial emergent
inventions of of that Collective
imaginary such as money um our the way
we conceive of ourselves the way we
relate um culturally uh relationally
emotionally and even physically so that
the the institutions and the systems
that start to form around or the rituals
that start to form around that
original uh
imagined
uh uh phenomenon such as money those
start to form in a way their own um
concrete realities in some sense that
have almost
like cultural or systemic gravity on our
own um and as you point I think an
example is with the cashier so it's
there's still those realities that kind
of no absolutely and and and another
example of that would be that even if
the nation state y uh is a u just an
invented
idea when I was
visiting Lithuania uh during summer
I went up against the Border towards
kaliningrad which is Russia and of
course there you hit the barb
wire okay you hit the barb wire and and
we even had um um a um border patrol
approaching us saying that you can't go
closer to the Border than this so of
course these ideas take on a very
tangible reality in in in many cases
that you hit up against but again it's
important that to remember that the
origin is with us humans and we could
decide to change it we could tear down
the borders we could tear down the wall
and I I I think that's a a
really uh a really important Point
actually and um one that I'm I I agree
with and perhaps we can use this as sort
of the branching off point to start to
take us in the direction of how this
relates to education in in the broadest
sense which is if we take this
particular topic of having invented
something like money or and the system
and the markets around which it um
orients and and uh
manifests
um is that we could reinvent it
potentially so there's that opportunity
to we are impacted individually and
collectively daily um some more than
others by the very
real uh climate that th and world that
those inventions um have brought about
such as money and the market um and the
same could be said for um forms of
education and what kind of skill sets
were valued and encouraged when our
current educational system was
introduced and that we can and I would
argue and perhaps you might agree start
to reinvent that in in all absolutely
different locals around the world and
it's there's a
gravitational a strong gravitational I
almost think of it like with a black
hole there's an event
horizon um or the the event horizon or
the the the gravitation
um pull of when you first escape the
Earth in a rocket I think a certain
large percentage of fuel is and energy
is used up in getting away from that
that that strong gravity after which new
system change new changes of yes ways of
doing education possible and I complet
completely agree with with what you said
and I think one could make an even
stronger claim today and and that is
that
um I believe that we are right now very
close
to uh again in the history of
humanity uh a transition point where we
are transitioning from one system into
another and um one of the reasons why
[Music]
why humanity is still
around after so many thousands of years
is that we have had the ability to
change our uh world viw and our social
our Collective reality fundamentally a
number of times and we have already
mentioned mentioned that when we went
from being small groups of hunter
gatherers uh and then trying to create
large
cities or or small nation states we
needed to invent some sort of so social
function some social glue that would
help us to keep those
societies together as our instincts were
not enough as our instincts were created
over millions of years then our
instincts have essentially not shifted
but our culture has shifted and the last
uh time we had such a deep cultural
shift in the western world uh I would
argue was during the
Enlightenment when we went from uh a
religious dogmatic worldview in to a u
uh
scientific
rationalistic worldview and that was the
start of the Industrial Revolution and
all of that and essentially we have been
living in that worldview and that
culture that Collective
imaginary uh
since
um the
Enlightenment and we should be I think
we should be very grateful for that
approach to the world because that
rationalistic um scientific approach has
given us everything from modern medicine
to uh human rights and democracy and we
wouldn't want to be without that but at
the same time I think that we can all
see how this approach to the world is
running out of steam and some would even
argue
that the worst problems that we are
facing such as now the breakdown of
democracy and the Global Environmental
challenges that they might actually be
an
effect uh of that particular
worldview so again I'm a scientist I
know the strength of the scientific
perspective so I think it would be
unwise to get rid of that
perspective just like we in during the
Enlightenment just got rid of
religion um I I think we should keep
that perspective but that we should
realize the limitations of that
perspective and that that has to be
complemented with other ways of of
knowing and understand
standing and if that is true that we are
actually standing in front of such a
substantial societal shift then of
course we as individuals in this Society
we need other skills other knowledges
other
capacities uh than the typical
inhabitant that lived uh in the society
50 years ago or a 100 years ago that
even if we back then perceived a very
rapid technological development it was
essentially the same society that we
were living
in so now if we have a shift like this
then we need to first of all in
education
make uh everyone aware of the fact that
uh the world is Shifting and that it is
possible I to recreate and reimagine
such things as the N the nation
state uh
marriages um money uh the market
political system and that most of those
things might even be up for grabs and
that just knowing that is empowering
people to be able to step into a more
creative role
so how can we
instead of the way that our school
system today has been set up
in socializing people into a specific
world and specific world view which we
of course still need to do but on top of
that have a constructive critical view
on our world and knowing that we all are
actually the creators of this world uh
every day when we are act either
replicating or
recreating this world whether we know it
or or not and if that would be the basis
for uh if we took that as our basis when
we speaking of a a form of Education
that um may still need to include the
preparing of young people for a
particular um uh capacity to to live
well and and leave meaningful lives um
that can include a world viiew that
comes with that could you speak a little
bit about one of the projects that you
uh helped to found or or have some
involvement in around the inner
development goals project that's related
to the sustainable development goals
from the United Nation absolutely
absolutely
so the first thing I I should say is
that um whether you believe or not that
we are in for a a
fundamental societal shift due to what
is happening right now with the
technological development not not the
least what is happening in the field of
AI and blockchain technology and those
things that would make it possible I
mean blockchain technology
makes it possible not just to invent
cryptocurrencies which is essentially
same money but
digitally but could actually open the
door to having possibilities of really
Reinventing the market and getting
beyond the money and and
having completely new ways of making the
economy H clear so the technological
development is moving so quickly even if
you
might not like I do believe that we are
facing a very deep societal uh
transformation uh at least everyone
would would agree with me that the
technological development that we see
now is so uh rapid and transformative
that we can really not have any idea
about what practical skills or what
train needs we should educate young
people
into if you enjoyed or learned from this
episode please subscribe and follow on
wherever you listen to your podcasts so
you never miss an
[Music]
episode
Просмотреть больше связанных видео
Virtual Walk Talk Listen with Maria Modigh (episode 138)
Individual Consciousness Is Not Enough - Tomas Björkman
AI and the Workforce
ひふみ目論見倶楽部【準備運動編】安宅和人さんと一緒に未来について考えました。
What stands in the way of women being equal to men? BBC News
【40代からのアンラーン戦略】アンラーンとは「学習の断捨離」/仕事中毒の罠/学びと行動を有機的に繋げよ/小さなアンラーンサイクルを数多く回す/五輪委員会のアンラーニング【中竹竜二】
5.0 / 5 (0 votes)