Dan and Joe Get Critical! Episode 1 Linda Nochlin's "Why have there been no great women artists?"

Summary

In this video, Dan and Joe discuss Linda Nochlin's influential 1971 essay, 'Why Have There Been No Great Women Artists?' They explore how Nochlin challenges the exclusion of women from art institutions and critiques the societal barriers preventing women from achieving artistic greatness. The conversation highlights how women's rights, though improved, still face resistance and cultural biases. The hosts reflect on the broader struggles for equality and the complexities of changing societal attitudes. They emphasize the importance of raising awareness and continuing to challenge outdated norms to achieve true equality.

Takeaways

• 🖼️ Linda Nochlin's 1971 essay 'Why Have There Been No Great Women Artists?' challenged the male-dominated narrative in art history.
• 📚 Nochlin argues that society, not a lack of talent, barred women from accessing the necessary institutions and education to become 'great' artists.
• 🎨 Great artists are often associated with formal training, which women were historically excluded from, preventing their artistic development.
• 🚫 Women were denied access to critical training opportunities, such as studying nude models, which was essential for mastering certain art forms.
• 👩‍🎨 Despite societal barriers, women excelled in other art forms like ballet, singing, writing, and poetry, supporting Nochlin's claim that the issue lies in restricted access, not talent.
• 👩‍🏫 Nochlin's essay highlights the need for intentional societal changes to provide equal opportunities for women in the arts.
• ⚖️ The discussion draws parallels between the struggle for women's rights and other social justice issues, noting that legal changes alone don't eliminate deeply ingrained biases.
• 💡 The hosts discuss how fear of change, competition, and loss of power have historically driven resistance to women's equality.
• 🖋️ The essay is considered foundational in both women's studies and art history, bridging the gap between gender equality and artistic recognition.
• 🌍 While progress has been made since Nochlin's essay, the conversation emphasizes that there are still areas, both in the U.S. and globally, where women do not have equal access to artistic careers.

Q & A

Who is Linda Nochlin, and what is the significance of her 1971 essay?

Linda Nochlin was an American art historian, and her 1971 essay 'Why Have There Been No Great Women Artists?' challenged the traditional 'great man' theory of art history. It became a foundational text in both art history and feminist studies, arguing that societal barriers, not women's lack of talent, were responsible for the absence of notable women artists in history.

What societal barriers does Nochlin identify as preventing women from becoming great artists?

Nochlin points out that women were historically excluded from the institutions necessary to develop artistic talent, such as schools, apprenticeships, and access to life-drawing classes that included nude models. Without this education, it was nearly impossible for women to master the skills required to achieve greatness in art.

How does Nochlin's essay challenge traditional feminist responses to the question of why there have been no great women artists?

Nochlin critiques the typical feminist response of trying to list examples of great women artists, arguing that this misses the point. Instead, she suggests that the real question should be why society has prevented women from accessing the same opportunities and institutions that foster greatness in art.

What examples of artistic fields where women have made notable progress does Nochlin mention, and how do they support her argument?

Nochlin highlights ballet, singing, writing, and poetry as areas where women have historically excelled. These fields often had fewer institutional barriers, supporting her argument that it was societal restrictions, not inherent ability, that prevented women from achieving greatness in visual arts.

What is the broader message of Nochlin's essay regarding societal change?

Nochlin calls for intentional efforts to change societal norms to be more inclusive. She emphasizes the need to raise awareness of the institutional and cultural barriers that have historically hindered women’s participation in fields like art, encouraging society to dismantle these barriers.

What analogy does the discussion in the transcript draw between women's rights and other forms of social inequality?

The discussion draws a parallel between the fight for women’s rights and other forms of social inequality, like racial tensions. It suggests that, much like with racism, legal changes may occur, but societal attitudes and private institutions often lag behind, continuing to perpetuate inequality.

What are the challenges associated with changing societal attitudes towards gender equality, according to the transcript?

The transcript highlights the difficulty of changing deeply ingrained societal attitudes, noting that while legal changes, such as constitutional amendments, are important, they don’t always translate into changes in behavior or attitudes. Social change requires effort beyond legal reform, including addressing fears and prejudices.

How does the transcript suggest that fear plays a role in resistance to women's rights?

The transcript suggests that fear, particularly fear of losing status or power, is a driving force behind resistance to women's rights. It parallels this fear with resistance to racial equality, positing that some men fear women gaining equal standing in society might threaten their own positions.

What does the transcript say about the complexity of social change, especially in terms of gender equality?

The transcript acknowledges that social change is complex and often slow. While improvements have been made since Nochlin's essay was published, there are still areas where gender inequality persists, both in the U.S. and globally. It points out that social roles are deeply embedded in culture, making them harder to change than legal structures.

What conclusion do the speakers in the transcript reach regarding Nochlin's essay and its relevance today?

The speakers conclude that Nochlin’s essay is still relevant today because it highlights ongoing issues with gender inequality, particularly in the arts. While progress has been made since the 1970s, they argue that raising awareness and challenging outdated societal norms remains necessary to achieve true equality.

Outlines

00:00

🎨 Introduction to Linda Nochlin's Essay on Women Artists

Dan and Joe introduce Linda Nochlin's influential essay 'Why Have There Been No Great Women Artists?' published in 1971. They provide historical context, discussing the second wave of feminism and the lack of women in art institutions at the time. Nochlin challenges the 'great man' theory of art history, arguing that societal barriers, not talent, kept women from becoming recognized artists. This essay sparked significant discussions in feminist art history, showing how societal norms limited women's access to education and artistic opportunities.

05:04

🏛️ Women’s Exclusion from Artistic Institutions

Nochlin's essay examines how societal norms excluded women from institutions critical to artistic development. The notion of a 'lone genius' artist is a myth since great artists often emerged from established art schools and mentorships—spaces where women were historically barred. For example, women were denied the opportunity to study nude models, a crucial skill for mastering the human form. This systemic exclusion led to a lack of 'great' women artists, not because of a lack of talent but because women were denied the necessary training and opportunities.

10:07

📜 Legal Equality Versus Societal Attitudes

Dan and Joe reflect on the broader issue of women's rights, noting that legal victories, like the right to vote, do not necessarily change entrenched societal attitudes. They compare this to other struggles for equality, such as racial issues, and argue that private institutions and societal beliefs play a significant role in maintaining inequality. While legal changes are essential, real progress requires shifts in cultural mindsets, which are harder to achieve and often resistant to change.

⚖️ The Challenge of Changing Cultural Norms

The conversation turns to the difficulty of changing deep-seated societal attitudes. They discuss historical examples, such as the French Revolution and oppressive policies against indigenous cultures, to illustrate how governments have tried to reshape societal values—often with inhumane methods. Dan and Joe argue that opposition to women's rights, like fear of job competition, stems from fear of change. This resistance to women's advancement is paralleled in racial and cultural tensions, revealing a broader pattern of fear and conservative thinking resisting societal progress.

🎭 Art, Gender, and Societal Barriers

Joe highlights the personal nature of art and how it is more than a career—it's a therapeutic and expressive outlet. The fact that women were barred from something so personal as artistic expression shows the extent of inequality. The discussion draws parallels between women fighting for equal opportunities in art and in broader society, noting that even today, women face obstacles in gaining the same recognition or opportunities as men. The conversation also touches on the recent political climate, where gender barriers still exist in positions of power like the presidency.

🚪 Progress and the Need for Ongoing Change

Dan and Joe conclude by acknowledging the progress made since Nochlin's essay but recognize that much work remains. Societal progress ebbs and flows, with resistance to change persisting in certain parts of society. They discuss the role of awareness and self-reflection in continuing to challenge patriarchal attitudes, noting that both men and women can uphold rigid gender roles. While there are no easy solutions, they emphasize the importance of raising awareness, holding oneself accountable, and using platforms like YouTube to promote social progress.

Keywords

💡Linda Nochlin

Linda Nochlin was an American art historian whose influential 1971 essay 'Why Have There Been No Great Women Artists?' challenged the traditional male-dominated narrative in art history. Her work, discussed in the video, is central to feminist critiques of art and explores how institutional barriers have historically prevented women from achieving recognition as great artists.

💡Great Man Theory

The Great Man Theory is a concept in historical and biographical studies that attributes the course of history to the actions of 'great men'—extraordinary individuals with inherent talents. In the context of Nochlin’s essay, this theory is critiqued for ignoring the societal barriers that prevented women from becoming great artists, implying that art history was overly focused on male genius.

💡Second Wave Feminism

Second Wave Feminism, which emerged in the 1960s and 1970s, sought to address broader societal inequalities, including legal rights, workplace discrimination, and access to education. The video places Nochlin’s essay within this context, showing how her work aligned with feminist efforts to challenge exclusionary practices in various fields, including art.

💡Institutional Barriers

Institutional barriers refer to the systemic restrictions that prevent marginalized groups, like women, from accessing opportunities in education, careers, and public life. Nochlin’s argument is centered on how women were historically barred from artistic institutions such as art schools and apprenticeships, which in turn limited their ability to become recognized as great artists.

💡Artistic Genius

Artistic genius is traditionally understood as a rare, innate talent for creating profound and influential works of art. Nochlin critiques this idea, arguing that even so-called geniuses had their talents nurtured by institutions that were inaccessible to women. The video discusses how societal structures played a more significant role in determining greatness than inherent genius.

💡Feminism in Academia

Feminism in academia refers to the introduction of feminist perspectives and critiques into academic disciplines. The video mentions how Nochlin’s essay helped integrate feminist thought into art history, highlighting how feminism had only recently begun to influence academic fields during the 1970s, starting with programs like women's studies.

💡Nude Models

Nude models are essential in art education, as learning to replicate the human form has been considered a crucial skill for artists. Nochlin points out that women were historically barred from studying nude models, which severely limited their artistic training and career opportunities. This example is used to illustrate the broader institutional barriers women faced in art.

💡Patriarchy

Patriarchy refers to a societal system where men hold primary power and dominate in roles of leadership, moral authority, and social privilege. The video discusses how patriarchy has shaped societal attitudes, including in art, where women's contributions have been undervalued or excluded due to gender norms. Nochlin’s essay addresses this imbalance in the art world.

💡Social Norms

Social norms are the unwritten rules of behavior that are considered acceptable within a society. In the context of Nochlin’s essay, the video explains how social norms have historically restricted women’s roles in the arts by creating expectations about what women could or should do, thus limiting their opportunities for artistic training and recognition.

💡Raising Awareness

Raising awareness involves making people conscious of issues they may not have previously considered, such as gender inequality in the arts. The video emphasizes Nochlin’s call to action for society to become more aware of the institutional barriers that women face, urging people to actively work to dismantle these barriers and create more inclusive opportunities in art and beyond.

Highlights

Linda Nochlin's 1971 essay 'Why Have There Been No Great Women Artists?' was a challenge to the 'great man theory' in art history.

The essay emerged during the second wave of feminism and questioned why women hadn't been given equal footing in the art world.

Nochlin argues that the issue wasn't women's capability, but the societal barriers that excluded them from artistic institutions.

Women were historically barred from institutions like art schools and apprenticeships, making it impossible for them to develop their talents.

One key example is that women were denied access to studying nude models, an essential practice for mastering the human form in art.

Nochlin's conclusion is that society must work actively to change norms and provide equal opportunities for women artists.

This inequality is reflected not only in the art world but across different spheres where women struggle for representation and equality.

The essay emphasizes that legal equality, while important, does not necessarily translate into social or institutional equality.

Social attitudes and cultural barriers are harder to change than legal structures, but they are essential for true equality.

The discussion highlights how fear of losing status or privilege has historically motivated resistance to women's rights.

The struggle for women's equality continues today, with certain parts of the world and institutions still resistant to change.

Art is not just a career but a personal and therapeutic outlet, and barring women from it impacts their personal expression.

The podcast discusses how these gender issues are reflected in broader societal debates, like women in politics.

There's an acknowledgment that while progress has been made since Nochlin's time, there's still work to be done for true gender equality.

The discussion concludes by emphasizing personal responsibility in raising awareness and challenging outdated attitudes toward gender roles.

Transcripts

hey I'm Dan and I'm here with Joe today

to talk about the essay why have there

been no great women artists by Linda and

Oakland we'll give some quick background

to put her work into context then we'll

do a breakdown of her arguments and

finish with a short discussion

afterwards to survey what she's brought

to the its intellectual table linden

Oakland was an American art historian

she was born in 1931 and passed away in

2017 when her academic work started art

history of still following a version of

the great man theory her 1971 essay why

have there been no great women artists

was an open challenge to this way of

thinking and was deeply influential to

the field this essay came at a time when

the second wave of feminism was

flourishing within three years we'd see

both title nine and the women's

educational Equality Act passed while

feminism had grown popular with Lehman

since the early 60s it had yet to

penetrate into academia San Diego State

University was the first to offer wound

studies program in 1970 with 11 courses

almost 50 years later feminism has

bloomed in academia but just by

empirical evidence from numerous fields

linden Oakland begins the essay by

pointing out that the question subtly

frames the debate in such a way that a

typical feminist would get distracted

trying to bring up examples examples are

admittedly few and no Klan uses us as a

pivot to show how the question is unfair

to women artists through the ages the

question should really be lied to

society not allow women to access the

institutions that prepare great artists

why does society not allow a woman

artist equal footing first she examines

what kinds of institutions make great

artists we tend to think of great

artists as being lone geniuses who were

gifted at birth but even for those lone

geniuses that gift was fostered most

great artists came from well-known

schools of art their art comes from a

specific style philosophy and type of

training you can clearly trace their

influences because they had an artistic

institution nurturing their ability

historically women were simply not

allowed into the

institutions great artists must first

learn the rules of art in order to

experiment outside of those rules this

leads to new clins hypothesis that calls

for this lack of great women artists is

that women were barred from the

institutions women were never allowed it

to schools apprenticeships and other

important ways to gain expertise in some

art forms the fact that women artists

made notable progress in ballet singing

writing and poetry supports Nolan's

hypothesis society itself was preventing

women from becoming masters and other

arts for example women were not

permitted to study nude models through

much of the 1800s as expert artists will

attest being able to replicate the human

form is a key milestone for a fledgling

artist given that they were denied this

cornerstone of artistic education

expecting greatness is unreasonable no

klain's conclusion is that we must make

intentional efforts to change societal

norms to be more inclusive we should

raise awareness to these societal

barriers and help tear them down this

strategy has already borne fruit we see

many gifted women artists today the

problem was never female artists it was

the ambient culture that denied women

access to the institution's necessary to

earn greatness for the next part of the

essay we were just going to talk a

little bit about no clins ideas and just

kind of what what perhaps we can take

away from this and include in society or

you know in our values today what really

struck me is that we think of women's

rights is something that's like mostly

like done you know it's like a solved

problem yeah yeah it's it's kind of like

how we how we think about like racism in

this country but obviously ended in 1970

yeah oh yeah we're done we finish this

you know it's a good ol constitutional

amendment and we're good to go but but

we start to see that that people's

attitudes and people's sort of closed

mindedness is really baked into some

parts of the country and some in some

parts of people's psyche and the laws

don't stop that and so like her essay

really shows how women have had to fight

for fight against many different

barriers in their in their struggle for

equality yeah I would agree based on my

like my reading into history I think you

can kind of see this pattern in

different struggles for equality that

you can get legal equality but most

probably most aspects of life are not

you know with the law or with legal

structures it's with private

institutions and they for the most part

can do what they want yeah most most of

life doesn't happen inside of courtroom

I think that's that's the only problem

with with these like the amendments are

a good idea you know obviously they

should be in place but but working on

people's individual like attitudes and

like kind of changing society on a

fundamental level it's a lot harder for

him changing you know the rules and

Simmel on some old piece of paper right

I mean I don't think there is a good way

of doing that without I mean the only

examples I'm aware of where governments

have big changes to culture especially

rapidly or I mean involved a lot of very

inhumane treatments I mean we could talk

for a long time about the French

Revolution but well I mean you can look

at the French Revolution you can look at

how China or I mean I don't want to say

this is just China but say China's

treatment of like the Weger people or

other ethnic minorities we've certainly

done similar with like I forget the name

of the practice but you know what the

Native Americans we take their children

and put them in Western schools they

lose their inherited languages oh yeah

this is a lot of their culture they've

done similar in Australia they've done

similar in Canada it's interesting

because the common thread that really

binds all of those different different

problems together or I mean problematic

actions

together is that it's you see people who

use fear of either you know of another

culture or fear of and and I mean I

think the reason why we see a lot of

fight against women's rights is because

it's fear of a woman's gonna take my job

Oh fear of women are gonna become more

important in society than I am and I

think a lot of the racial tensions and

you know obviously it's more complicated

than this but it's just the idea it's

that fear of the unknown and sometimes

it's fear of the unknown or of a

different culture but sometimes it's

fear of the unknown of like what's gonna

happen to my society if women I have as

much say-so as I do and and so it's

you're kind of fighting against time and

people is kind of consuming you know

maybe conservative or or you know

outdated ways of thinking where because

a lot of this comes from the idea that

women don't have something to bring to

the table and we know from societies

from society today many amazing women

artists but I think another aspect of

this essay that really has stuck out to

me is the fact that like this this isn't

really like women fighting for a major

right like voting or equal opportunity

to to you know to work in a way this is

similar to the similar to find equal

opportunity to work because if men and

women artists can't get the same job

equally then that's a problem but it's

but what sticks up to me more is that is

the fact that we we usually think of art

as like a hobby something that you do to

express yourself something you do for

fun and and art is honestly it's it's

therapeutic it's you know so art is

something that is very is a very very

personal thing and to see women barred

from such a personal you know eye

opening or self self-fulfilling sort of

pastime is just you know that really

really opened my eyes because as a man

you know we take it for granted that I

can be anything from a president to

[Music]

to a popper painter you know if I want

but to see that especially because the

later latest political things that have

happened

Oh a woman doesn't have an equal shake

at being president a woman doesn't have

you know and obviously there's a lot

more that happened in the election but

but it's so we don't want to yeah that's

really over simplify here but I do think

it was a factor and I think you'd agree

with that yeah yeah it's just in a lot

of ways this country isn't ready to give

women in equal standing in in everything

and and you know maybe times have

changed from when Miss uh from when

missin Oakland wrote the essay so right

now but you know I'm I'm sure that

there's still some parts of the country

still some parts of the world that women

don't get an equal shake at being an

artist the same way that me or you would

you know there's no so that was really

eye-opening just the fact the fact that

you have to fight for equality just to

participate in you know in a hobby and a

therapeutic exercise you know because

obviously for them most people art

doesn't turn into a career but it's just

it was just really you know it'd be like

having to fight for equal rights to like

to walk your dog it's just um it just

really opened my eyes that that's a very

er woman I've had to fight against so

really awesome I say that you know that

she that she really brought this idea

into the it's a little late

yeah I know I don't think you could I

don't think he can make a well supported

claim that things have not improved

since 1970 certainly there's things that

still need to improve but I think

broadly speaking things are better in

terms of equality in most ways and you

know we're seeing sort of pushback now I

mean it's it's it's complicated

yeah well history kind of is like a tide

it it ebbs and and flows you know and

and because I know I've met you know we

all know guys that I have close-minded

ideas and so there's there's obviously

still some work that needs to be done

with raising awareness to women's issues

and

it's not just men either the plenty of

women who kind of participate in what we

called patriarchy right that's true who

wants it very rigidly in for social

roles for women and also for men it's

yeah it's I mean it's very complicated

they don't know that there's an easy

answer here there's no easy answer but

but it is it is interesting to see that

we even with just the idea of like

writing down an essay writing down your

thoughts and just kind of having your

critiques I mean I know this essay is a

foundational essay for any any person

that is interested in women's studies or

art history this is kind of like a

marriage of those two like important

ideas so it's I I think that's that's

most of and it always sucks that

progressive people always have to fall

back in the well we've done our job

we've raised awareness to this issue but

you know I think some sense that's all

you can do is kind of like research it

for yourself

maybe self reflect on this and sort of

maybe things that you've done wrong or

or attitudes that you hold but I think

of the data it's really all you control

right so as long as you hold yourself

and the people that you spend your time

with accountable and if you can do your

own forms of art where you help raise

awareness to to things like these sort

of problems to even strangers and post

some stuff on YouTube well well I guess

that's a pretty good place for us to

wrap up yeah I'd say so

all right well definitely thank you for

joining us for our uh for our first

friend an NGO get critical yeah yeah

it's um we plan to do a lot more things

like this thanks for joining us and I

hope you check out our stuff in the

future