The Hans Zimmer Composer Round Table
Summary
TLDRIn this in-depth discussion, film score composers delve into the art of scoring, exploring the significance of using real orchestras and the impact of individual musicians' interpretations. They discuss the creative process, the importance of performance energy and dynamics, and how it translates to the audience. The conversation also touches on the evolution of sampling and digital music libraries, the challenge of maintaining originality in music, and the influence of conductors and orchestrators in shaping a film's emotional landscape.
Takeaways
- 😀 The quality of Spitfire's libraries is highly praised for keeping the composers busy and inspired.
- 🎵 Composers often prefer working with individual players and their unique instruments to create a distinct sound.
- 🤔 There's a suspicion that Spitfire might have taken inspiration from other libraries but pushed the boundaries too far with their Zima thing.
- 👥 The number of players used in an orchestra can greatly affect the balance and quality of the sound produced.
- 🏛️ Recording in well-known places like Abbey Road Studios isn't just for the Indian takeaway; it's because of the specific acoustics and atmosphere.
- 🎶 The evolution of music for projects like 'Game of Thrones' shows how music can grow and change over time, much like the characters and storylines.
- 👂 Listening to the samples and the way they're played can evoke emotions and set the tone for a film or series.
- 🎻 The individuality of musicians and their instruments is crucial in creating a unique sound that can't be replicated by a machine.
- 🎹 There's a debate on whether it's better to have the entire orchestra play together or to record sections separately for more control.
- 👨👩👧👦 Having all musicians play together can create a collective energy and a more emotional performance.
Q & A
What is Spitfire mentioned in the script?
-Spitfire is a company that creates high-quality sampled instrument libraries for composers and musicians. The script suggests that Spitfire may have taken inspiration from other libraries and created their own, possibly going 'one step too far' with certain aspects like the 'Zima thing'.
What does the speaker mean by 'down the center have one section of celli'?
-This refers to a specific orchestral arrangement technique where the cello section is divided, with one group placed to the center and others to the sides, creating a spatial effect in the music.
What is the significance of the number 60 in the context of celli mentioned in the script?
-The number 60 likely refers to the large number of celli used in a particular scoring session, which is unusually high and suggests an extremely large orchestra setup for a very rich and full sound.
What is the 'Zima thing' mentioned in the script?
-The 'Zima thing' is not explicitly defined in the script, but it seems to refer to a particular feature or aspect of Spitfire's sampled libraries that the speaker finds to be excessively complex or overdone.
Why does the speaker mention '32 basis' in relation to Dunkirk?
-The '32 basis' likely refers to the number of stems or individual recorded elements used in the soundtrack for the film 'Dunkirk', suggesting a complex and detailed mixing process.
What is the importance of the number 24 in the script?
-The number 24 is mentioned as the number of bases Spitfire uses, which the speaker considers insufficient compared to the 'enormous amount' needed for a balanced sound, suggesting a criticism of the library's scope or quality.
What does the speaker mean by 'it's not a string library it's these individual players'?
-The speaker is emphasizing that the quality of the music doesn't come from a generic string library but from the individual talents and characteristics of the string players recorded.
What is the significance of the speaker mentioning 'Indian takeaway'?
-The mention of 'Indian takeaway' is likely a humorous aside, suggesting that the choice of recording location is not just about the quality of the sound but also about the amenities, like food, available there.
What is the 'experiment' referred to in the script?
-The 'experiment' likely refers to the process of arranging a large number of string players in an atypical way, such as positioning different groups to the left and right, to see how it affects the sound and music creation.
Why does the speaker mention 'Henry will know how to make something huge'?
-This suggests that 'Henry' is recognized for his ability to create large, impactful soundscapes or musical scores while still maintaining a sense of refinement or sophistication.
Outlines
🎵 Spitfire's Library Inspirations and Music Composition
The speaker discusses Spitfire's music libraries, suggesting they were inspired by others' work, particularly string sections. They mention using an excessive number of violas and cellos for a balanced sound, emphasizing the importance of individual musicians and their instruments. The narrative also touches on the significance of recording in familiar rooms and the impact of the musicians' collective experience on the final sound. The speaker reflects on the challenge of creating a refined yet grand sound, comparing it to Henry's work on 'Blue Planet'.
🎼 The Emotional Connection to Instruments and Performances
This paragraph delves into the deep relationship between musicians and their instruments, likening these instruments to an extension of the musician's identity. It discusses the emotional weight of archived music samples, which can serve as a memorial to musicians' skills and the changes in technology that have preserved these performances over time. The narrative also touches on the poignant story of an oboist who, feeling his skills fade, threw his instrument into the Thames, highlighting the transient nature of a musician's career.
🎧 Sampling and the Evolution of Music Composition
The conversation explores the impact of sampling on music composition, where the speaker discusses the process of layering orchestral samples to create rich textures. They recount their experience with Batman Begins, where they initially aimed for an electronica score but ended up incorporating orchestral elements. The challenges of recording ostinatos and the subsequent re-recording for separate cues are highlighted, emphasizing the iterative nature of the composition process.
🎹 The Creative Process and Trust in Music Composition
The speaker reflects on the creative process in film scoring, discussing the trust directors place in composers and the challenges of writing music that serves the narrative. They touch on the idea of writing with restrictions to foster creativity and the struggle of revisiting themes across multiple films. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the composer's process of finding new ideas and the mental energy required for TV and film scoring.
🎬 The Dynamic Nature of TV Scoring and Character Development
This paragraph focuses on the evolving nature of TV scoring, using 'Game of Thrones' as an example. The speaker discusses the process of developing music over multiple seasons and how the music reflects the characters' development. They also touch on the challenge of laying narrative 'pipe' for future seasons and the importance of being able to adapt and evolve musically to fit the show's progression.
🎻 The Impact of Orchestral Players on Composition
The discussion centers on how the presence of orchestral players influences the composition process. The speaker shares insights on the energy and inspiration that come from directing musicians in real-time, as opposed to working with pre-recorded samples. They also discuss the importance of the players' understanding of the music's narrative and the collective spirit of the orchestra.
🎼 The Art of Subtlety and Dynamic Control in Performance
In this paragraph, the speaker emphasizes the art of playing quietly and the emotional intensity it can convey. They discuss the challenge of achieving a beautiful, quiet performance and the importance of dynamic control. The narrative also includes a discussion about the shared breath among musicians and the impact of room acoustics on the performance.
🎶 The Role of Imagination and Technology in Music Composition
The speaker explores the role of imagination in music composition, contrasting the use of technology with traditional orchestral arrangements. They discuss the importance of creating a shared experience for the audience through immersive sound design and the use of historical techniques in modern compositions. The paragraph also touches on the idea of using space and architecture to enhance the listening experience.
🎵 The Influence of Orchestral Recordings on Composition
This paragraph delves into how the sound of an orchestra, influenced by the room and the recording environment, can shape a composer's work. The speaker discusses the impact of recording in iconic rooms like Abbey Road and the importance of capturing the unique acoustics. They also touch on the challenge of programming brass instruments to sound realistic and the importance of capturing the breath of the musicians.
🎹 The Creative Journey from Idea to Composition
The speaker reflects on the process of translating musical ideas into compositions. They discuss the importance of finding the right instrument and player to bring a piece to life, as well as the challenges of writing for specific musicians. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the limitations of samples and the importance of writing with the end performance in mind.
🎻 The Significance of Personal Connection in Music Performance
In this paragraph, the speaker emphasizes the importance of the personal connection between the composer and the musician in creating impactful music. They recount a specific experience where a cellist's performance brought a piece to life, highlighting the transcendent nature of live performance. The narrative also touches on the risks and rewards of pushing for new musical ideas.
🎼 The Transformational Power of Music in Film Scoring
The discussion centers on the transformative power of music in film scoring. The speaker shares an anecdote about a key scene in 'Prince of Egypt' and how the right musical performance can elevate the emotional impact of a film. They also touch on the importance of being open to new ideas and the challenges of reinventing musical devices to serve different emotional needs.
🎶 The Evolution of Music Technology and Composition
This paragraph explores the evolution of music technology and its impact on composition. The speaker reflects on their early experiences with sampling and sequencers, discussing the limitations and creative opportunities they presented. They also touch on the importance of adapting to new technology and the role it plays in shaping a composer's sound.
🎵 The Impact of Orchestras on Film Scores
The speaker discusses the enduring impact of orchestras on film scores, highlighting the importance of live performances and the energy they bring to a composition. They reflect on the experience of recording with the same orchestra used in '2001: A Space Odyssey' and the challenges of working with analog equipment. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the role of technology in capturing the emotional performance of musicians.
🎼 The Role of Collaboration and Creativity in Music Composition
In this paragraph, the speaker emphasizes the importance of collaboration in music composition, sharing anecdotes about working with other composers and musicians. They discuss the creative process, from initial ideas to final performances, and the impact of different approaches and technologies. The narrative also touches on the importance of being open to new ideas and the challenges of maintaining a fresh perspective.
🎶 The Influence of Personal History and Experience on Composition
The speaker reflects on how personal history and experience shape their approach to composition. They discuss the influence of their family background, early musical experiences, and the importance of encouragement in pursuing a career in music. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the role of discipline and the decision to focus on music over other career paths.
🎵 The Power of Music in Visual Media and the Composer's Role
In this paragraph, the speaker discusses the power of music in visual media, using the example of a film they disliked but appreciated the music. They share the story of how they reached out to the composer and the impact it had on their career. The narrative also touches on the importance of recognizing and supporting talent in the industry.
🎼 The Creative Dynamics of Music and Film Collaboration
The speaker explores the creative dynamics between music and film, discussing the process of scoring and the importance of understanding the narrative. They share anecdotes about working with directors and the challenges of translating visual concepts into music. The paragraph also includes a discussion about the role of technology in the composition process and the importance of samples in conveying musical ideas.
🎶 The Importance of Performance in Music Composition
In this paragraph, the speaker emphasizes the importance of performance in music composition, discussing the impact of the musician's interpretation on the final piece. They share stories about working with different musicians and how their individual styles can influence a composition. The narrative also touches on the importance of casting the right musicians for a project and the challenges of capturing the essence of a live performance.
🎵 The Role of Technology in Modern Music Composition
The speaker discusses the role of technology in modern music composition, sharing their experiences with different digital audio workstations and the creative opportunities they provide.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Spitfire
💡Libraries
💡Strings
💡Orchestra
💡Samples
💡Batman Begins
💡Ostinatos
💡Game of Thrones
💡Temp Tracks
💡Immersive
💡Performance Pride
Highlights
Discussion on Spitfire's library quality and its impact on composers.
Comparison between Spitfire's approach and traditional string libraries.
The importance of individuality in sampled instruments.
The challenge of creating a realistic and balanced orchestral sound with a large number of violas.
The significance of the room's acoustics in recording and the role of 'Air' in music production.
The evolution of string library concepts and their impact on composition.
The role of individual players in creating unique textures in music.
The emotional impact of using samples from older performances.
The process of adapting orchestral performances to fit film scores.
The influence of the room's acoustics on the perception of an orchestra's performance.
The balance between the composer's vision and the orchestra's interpretation.
The challenge of maintaining creativity and freshness in long-term projects like 'Game of Thrones'.
The importance of the relationship between the composer and the musicians.
The impact of technology on the evolution of orchestral sampling.
The role of imperfections in creating realistic and emotionally engaging sampled libraries.
The importance of the performance aspect in orchestral recordings.
The emotional connection between the musician and their instrument.
The influence of the environment on the musician's performance.
The process of creating and using sampled instruments in film scores.
Transcripts
we could make this into like an
incredible plug for Spitfire because
there could the quality of the libraries
have kept us so busy
I'm loving the 10 years so anyway what
what my suspicion is Spitfire have
finally copped to where they cut the
hole inspiration from for doing us
libraries and they've tried to sort of
copy what we've done with strings etc
forever except of course they've taken
it one step too far
um the Zima thing and like really crazy
so when I did scores was 28 celli
thinking that's a lot of cherry right
they've actually done 60 but I know that
on Dunkirk correct me if I'm wrong been
I had 32 basis it's only and I I do
believe this is where Spitfires let us
down a little bit because they only
using 24 bases it's an enormous amount
of violas an enormous amount you know so
everything is balanced and it was just
the experiment of what would happen if
you down the center have one section of
celli let's say and then to the right
you could have them and to the left you
can have them people always go oh it's a
string library they forget it's not a
string library it's these individual
players it's those people that we know
with those instruments and that's that's
what makes the whole difference and it's
like all the people in this room with
the exception of Andy mr. synthesizer
well no no but in a funny way it's it's
all the players we have worked with over
the years and we sort of know are
suddenly you know and it's about the
individuals and then you actually hear
the individuals and it's actually
recorded in a room
that we we know there's a reason we go
to those places it's not just because we
like the Indian takeaway even though
there's such refined us in your writing
and then every once in a while it gets
really huge and I was thinking oh Henry
will know Henry will know how to how to
make something that is incredibly huge
but somehow still seems to have the air
of refinement about it it's sort of
English education you got to guys have
been doing on blue planet with you know
because that was I thought that was very
cool that Spitfire actually designed a
library but for what you were doing
yeah you know so you know forget that
it's a strain library nowadays it's like
because the library that I love is the
one I can never pronounce the guy's name
on there you know because I always call
them Arnold olaf's which is really it's
okay no because I love I love the
because you've got this and it's really
about the player strings he's done two
now one is it's like a very small like
octet on kind of sound and then the
other one is now at the chamber section
right it's really textural to like it
it's you know he has these evolutions
that kind of that start as one thing and
they develop it's yeah it's kind of like
it ends up being like a weird secret
weapon that you can throw on something
but I mean but but what we did as well I
mean you know when we went to London on
a recent movie let's just keep it
nameless for now you know that this
whole idea of actually having really big
sections but have this sort of
individual sort of move
within them and really extraordinary
things there was like some symphonic
chema musical most they are these waves
and everyone bouncing off each other and
the chaos that came from that it was sad
lots of surprises it was quite beautiful
yes but well of course you've been
making a living relying on one solo
channel talk about the intimate sound
you pick your library in a funny way
because of the players and their
instruments and you want you want to you
want to make sure it's not about them
like a you know I'm saying this looking
at microphone an owl would kill me but
it's it's actually not about the mic so
much it's you want people who have
really great instruments you know and
really play with a start well there's a
kind of relationship that these
musicians have I mean these instruments
are kind of an extension of who they are
and especially when you go to air it's
it's this terrifying idea this
unbelievable sort of just expansive
expensive very old and gorgeous
estimated it's quite quite overwhelming
actually but actually actually I loved I
think I can tell this I mean I think I
took you to air for the first time when
we were doing Batman Begins and you got
like you had the best room because you
had the Attic like hideout and Chris
would just live up there with you you
know
experiments were going on forever you
know so I I liked that everybody I mean
everybody in this room has a connection
in one way or the other with those
players and and I think what was fun for
those players is because those players
never all get booked for one session
right and they all know each other yeah
yeah you know and so I listen to a bit
of love it's funny talking about
individual players because I still
sometimes take
you've got an oboe sample from back in
the day that has actually weirdly become
a kind of archive memorial the plane you
can end up because the technology you
guys some weird time displacement where
when the frail fingers of an actual
amazing player failed you to old age the
sample weirdly lives on so it ends up
being this quite poignant record of a
type of playing that there's more to
that story because that oboist
he realized at a certain point in his
life that he wasn't sounding that great
anymore and he actually went on to
Chelsea bridge or Waterloo Bridge and
took his oboe and threw it into the
Thames
so yes really it's like it's a bit like
Tony priests cello yeah she's my
favorite cello and then Tony sold it and
stopped playing and I'm going I you know
so sampling becomes this thing where
were actually you you can still have the
tone of yours that police libraries is
amazing a chic especially when he plays
unbelievably quietly unbelievably high
nothing quite as fragile and makes you
lean in we can do that would be like a
picture editor just pulling up footage
of Brando whereas and when he feels like
it we got all of this performances but
it is amazing that we do that so this
because people are not familiar with you
know how how sophisticated the sampling
is a property sort of not fully aware of
how much the performance especially so
especially stuff you did the stuff that
you've done over the years that is solo
instruments actually really does become
a mmm a record of people's well and its
personality yeah and part of their
personality of cursory you guys all know
this because you've done it is of course
they want to do what you want them to do
so you're you know you're you're sort of
a co-defendant and
you know coke criminal Ramin remembers
very well days and days of sitting at
air recording Batman ostinatos and
nearly it nearly ruined a perfectly good
friendship between everybody right I
mean you know it was one of the worst
ideas ever maybe were they how long was
it three three months four months we
were there for long we were in it for a
while but but but yeah III don't know
you see somehow managed by having that
attic room you've managed to keep like
yeah you you had sanity you know you had
that the elevator couldn't even reach
anymore you have to take the stairs for
the last rites great and and and so when
whenever you wanted a bit of sanity
you'd go take the elevator and then walk
up to remains room in comes like like
you you busily made magic while
everybody else was going slightly insane
buildings amazement has all these kind
of hidden passages and rooms upstairs
really does yeah but you know it's just
think talking about Batman Begins
because when I was having like some
pompous music philosopher it is sort of
interesting the way the way all those
Austin also has worked actually it's
sort of an interesting question that is
to do with that kind of stuff sounds
absolutely brilliant as samples when the
samples are amazing and you almost end
up when a score is that concept driven
and it feels you know it's the sort of
parts that you could put in a sequencer
as much as an orchestra the fact that
it's all been so many samples have been
used actually sort of comes full circle
so that what you're asking of players is
actually starting to be influenced by it
more secret right type well that's a
very specific thing we're not asking
DaVinci carpet in that specific case
well but our original idea was correct
me if I'm wrong we were trying to write
an electronica score and get an
orchestra to before
exactly which is not a commercial or
casual attitude was it was there was
some there were some learning involved
for the players like on the creek so did
you spend time before just recording the
ostinatos no we actually did it last
which was because we wanted them
separate and that that was sort of they
were saying we'd recorded the queue so
we thought we'd done and then we had to
go and we caught every cue again just
for that another layer and that's what
became like oh my god this was such a
bad idea I thought we were done and then
I don't think people were really doing
that at the time I mean we then took
those recordings these performances and
we had music editors everywhere just
tightening in of them up so yes it had
been so if if it had been samples it
would have been a lot easier that's
where all bad ideas you learned
something from but I just think it's
just thanks for exactly and because that
kind of writing is sort of sequencer and
sample driven conceptually it ends up in
a really interesting gray area because
if you actually as well as having
samples around in the mix room if you
have these Austin are so poised but
they're also managed timing wise it
you're more in a sort of Trevor Horn
production territory than a Deutsche
Grammophon
you know the name is except for you know
[Music]
it does something to the emotion in the
room where you have a huge Orchestra who
you know they've just come from a
rehearsal with you know with no kick
track and they're they're used to
playing just after the downbeat yes
everyone's together and they breathe
together to the exact other end of the
spectrum where there's a machine gun in
your ear right and you got to play four
notes between each machine gun right and
and it's physically very exhausting and
you know you've got to do this for three
hours without hatred yes with exactly
with love with musicality with
expression and it's kind of puts you in
a sort of strange place I think as a
musician which will affect
mrs. Batman Begins this is about someone
you know mental illness creating
nightmares for people maybe
there was a bit of method acting earlier
in the school that wasn't what's
interesting from Hansbrough just
speaking to you for a second I'm sure
you don't mind
but what's crate was crazy about its
hands having put that idea together you
know as you go to London to record it
the massive big picture of how this
whole jigsaw is going to be put together
if you find yourself on the second row
on day 7 of that you don't necessarily
have that so you have to trust there's
like this you you may be a player's
thinking this doesn't make an enormous
amount of sense to me I said well you
know what it doesn't it but but there
are people for whom it does right and
the whole jigsaw is gonna be put
together and ready you may not
necessarily understand when you're on
bar 19 yeah the other the other things I
mean we you know I mean look you're
working with his brother right now
I mean one of the great things about
what has happened over time is now that
directors actually trust us that we go
this this will sound a little weird but
all all the strings are going to do is
go diggy diggy diggy do you know for a
very very long time but then I have this
thing in my head which you can't hear
yet because it's just in my head you
know and it will turn into a piece of
music you know eventually well I'm not
sure music is the correct but I mean
look you you you then ran off
screaming quite rightly so and decided
to do your own thing and do you have to
because Game of Thrones which I have now
studied extensively while on tour I mean
it just absolutely saved my life on the
pass every night you know you got so
many styles of music in it and you got
so many different things going on so
that that your me going oh well we had
to sit there and record ostinatos for
Batman it's nothing compared to what
you've been up to which is seventh
seasons so how many years of your life
has it been
it's been you know 2011 so yeah let's
not do the math yeah it's like because
when we were working on Batman Begins so
we thought that's it right we're gonna
go1 Batman movie we'll never do a secret
or anything like this
and to people it it was three movies but
to us it was 12 years of our life you
know it's like you know Chris walking in
one day and saying oh I got this other
idea you know and oh suddenly we were
doing the Dark Knight but if you think
about it you know in the amount of life
that we've actually put into I'm not
saying I'm begrudging it's it's it's I
can't say it's always fun but it's
always interesting it's always
discovering something you're very mean
but you see because because I condensed
your life or the work you did into
binging every night many many many
episodes and going oh I see oh hang on
that's the demo oh I see new ideas
coming it oh he's got a little port here
so he's put a new whole new spin onto
something I mean am i reading this
correctly yeah no and I wish it would
come that quickly the struggle of
getting there - right yeah Batman Begins
I think it's a good example to use
because I thought we only had to surf
this one movie we had to serve this
amount of time I never knew we had to
come back to these ostinatos and
suddenly by the second one you go oh my
god did I actually write myself into a
corner what else can I do with it that I
did because I did everything I could
with it in the first one you throw
everything
I mean don't don't you find that that
it's like you've done it all and then
you sort of have to go and revisit it
and weirdly you do find that there's a
new well it's that thing of way you know
you give yourself certain restrictions
in order to generate something fresh
it's almost better than having
everything on the
because then it's you know it's an
embarrassment of riches and I guess
whenever the betterment of ready yeah I
mean I got empty drawers I felt it when
you said earlier to me that you finally
found it your eyes you know and I didn't
react Church promise I sort of went
great he's going to live another day you
know I mean do you or because I think
people assumed that we who seem to be
you know people just see the end product
right just like you said you know well I
wish it had come as quickly as I watched
it right I mean they they understand
their struggle you know you've got to
find the idea and then you've gotta find
the tune that actually matches the
concept of this idea and it takes it
takes it's it's never just sit down and
don't know is what they're really
frustrating things it's always on an
annoying exponential curve which is why
I meet me I haven't done massive
successful extensive TV like for me but
what the amount of energy required to
get exactly the right ideas for the
characterization the narrative or
anything is the big brain time and then
when you actually do figure it out yes
and then keep saga and then by the time
you get to the end you like you can
throw another two of these movies
because we all know what we are it's
finished we got to do it again with a
completely different films now set in
like 16th century France and like they
forget it's a bit like building a
Formula One car on the next season it's
helicopter rides so you can't you can't
just wheel out the same no I mean III
mean seriously what your word you're
talking about it's I mean there's the
thing that I am that just floors me is
how you manage to keep this incredibly
complicated structure going you know
right it's the arc is we all know
amazing yeah yes it's funnier in yeah I
try to challenge myself every time when
I start a new season of thinking of how
can I do something new and how can I
develop what I had started into
something else and and at what point
during that process to go I made such a
terrible mistake I should she stuck with
the thing for suddenly putting a piano
in mm-hmm I noticed that you're not
going why is he suddenly putting a piano
in and I was thinking he's trying to
tell me something you you're saying to
me it's a lie
am i right so something as simple as oh
he changed his vocabulary it's a tiny
bit and you changed it in a really
subtle way I mean it's it's the most
benign instrument you could pass it on
or instrument you could just put it
right and that made me go danger and up
to that point we had never used it so
and it didn't feel like oh I've run off
colors and so now I'm gonna do this that
would be the kazoo vibraslap so that was
that was planned right I mean completely
it completely translated to somebody as
idiotic as me who to this day does not
know the characters names I can never
remember character's name yeah but but
also that shows evolved a lot like I
couldn't imagine the scene that you're
talking about in the first season like
it's it's become kind of a different
show and I feel like the music has
changed a lot right yeah definitely yeah
the music just kind of follows that that
development of those progress and their
development I mean that's interesting
doesn't really happen in movies because
it's self-contained I mean it's not like
you get reels one at well sometimes you
do but generally you get a movie so it's
sort of interesting when something's
that long the actual the process and
yeah yeah
is not you the whole way you're trying
to get to and laying pipe on the rest of
it is a bit more kind of on the flight
because it you're rolling with where
they're going as opposed to knowing the
last scene in a three and a half hour
long Terry Malick though at least you
know what the last you know it's
fascinating you know it's quite
interesting and the writers also don't
necessarily know that's what's that mean
as yes I was really in this sense of the
Breaking Bad craters and I was saying
you know they were gonna kill off Jesse
just in that first season and and just
it was too good he was to essentially
and he is the most iconic you know
character and TV so you know and but the
fact that they were completely unaware
of its character when they started yes
it's amazing it's a particular skill
because imagine a circle you could get
your knickers in a bit of a twist in
relation to events that have gone before
and I imagine it's the same with the
music it's got to grow out of where it
came in just a new stuff doesn't just
completely appear out of nowhere but
it's also got a move with well-known oh
yeah but you're constantly laying pipe
oh yeah yeah do you yeah and I listen to
my show runners a lot I mean they set me
up in this that look this particular
tune that you're gonna write for this
character needs to do this three seasons
later so I listen to them okay so
they're aware enough their way and they
got me and then I write it that way that
I know eventually it has to do it is to
go bigger and has a darker something and
according to that that's how I tried to
set it up but I think this is another
thing that people who don't write film
musical television or whatever whatever
it is we do they don't realize that we
have to not only just come up with a
tune or a motif or something that is a
good piece of music it has to become
efficient it has to be able to turn in
yes
malleable it has to become evil yeah but
not all those things you know it's
making a stem stone less out which can
be yeah create all kinds of other
permutations and I've seen the potential
what I'm finding I'm constantly writing
myself into chorus by by by having an
idea Joe cheering it's like and then
half way down half way down the road you
go
it becomes an unsolvable burden so yeah
I remember you telling interesting story
like that to do with having to get rid
of one of your favorite caught you would
you were starting to work on so it was
cut off it was a stage but because
you're really good at knowing you've got
to kick the tires really heavily on
something to know it can do all the
things it needs to do and you weren't
happy with it and and eventually the
solution was to shoot your favorite toy
no I had this car yeah and that was
actually the beginning of where where
the problem was being dismissed the one
thing you didn't want to get rid of the
whole thing start to fall into place
once I got rid of my favorite bit I mean
really you know like like I most the
time I just I'm just happy if it's not
[ __ ] you know it's not not Samsung a
grown up composer and then that was the
thing that you know and then I had to go
on Kenneth because you know I could not
it stopped
any any progress from happening yeah
it's like oh Henry and you know I know
about this well the preview goes really
well with the temp music oh yeah and
everybody goes but the preview went well
so therefore we should do what the temp
music no temp musica C is the enemy of
invention you know it's like you can't
it absolutely unless the preview goes
badly which is a good thing that is
fantastic
if the spottings just sort of in the
right place and that's about it
oh it's actually really useful when it's
complete [ __ ] because it produces an
angry feeling of what yeah you know the
creative reaction that becomes even more
sort of fervent because it's like every
I'm hearing is exactly what must never
happen and so it actually it's mode it's
motivating that only is a bit to posting
if it turns they go oh no this is this
is kind of great right yeah we'll talk
about that I remember he made a very
interesting point about Tim which is
that for the few occasions where
directors have unwisely temporarily
potentially not giving you all the
freedom that you want because of a temp
moment I hate the freedom comes
responsibility
you make the interesting points that we
look before you all start freaking out
on this piece of music being incredibly
similar to the frame and to the shake
blah blah blah don't forget that the
piece of music that you've fallen in
love with a certain point in time was a
free it was written in a free
environment where someone wasn't
behaving how you are behaving right now
yeah which is it because otherwise
everything would be a recycled version
of something that something that
someone's got used to but you have to
start with at some point there have been
pieces where there has not been a
tyrannical regime of obsessing about
exactly what one which I thought was a
really good point well hang on who in
this room hasn't been in the situation
where every time we do something right
every time we get a job
basically what they say just we want
something new then you do something new
and then you know people sitting around
this table listening to it and they're
going and and I've really learned and I
wonder if you have this as well on you
because you're doing new all the time to
something that has a set path yeah and
you're doing something new you sometimes
you didn't it's it's like why and you
need to give them a second thought to
breathe and to get used exactly what you
remember that moment hidden figures with
tab mal fear there was in the montage
scene it was tempts with this very
serious lots of up her Geo's kind of
they're really getting down to business
pay attention and furrow was in the room
and you know they will this is the tent
this is gonna this
and he just kind of went to the keyboard
and just started playing a bass line
which was just basically a kind of funk
bass line and just and very simple and
and it's just any sort of put some drums
on and them
this is go with this and Ted narrative
like wow really like the temp and then
there's side news there was this
wonderful moment
a week later where we presented the the
result in queue which was this kind of
insane
big band funk gospel thing couldn't be
more different from the temp and Ted
sort of was like a GOG and his reaction
which i think is the greatest compliment
was I think I loved it I like we play
again that is like yeah I love it
everybody just it was that exactly what
you're saying it needs a bit of audience
yeah and then the or and of course the
audience loved it right you know because
it was kind of business yeah it was you
know but so how do you get to preview
anything oh is it all in the in the in
the privacy of your own paranoia
definitely yeah it's all second-guessing
yourself yeah yeah go to your Braverman
no because my last resort always is you
know if if there's a is this a good idea
as as a parody I'm going let's pull out
in front of an audience
let's go and see what they say and yes I
have been taught many things by an
audience going that is [ __ ] I mean but
sorry we're supposed to in one way or
the other
yeah that's where the samples come in
really handy because I can go and at
least it's not me on the piano doing
it's like able to workshop I am actually
going but you invented that I mean when
he when he started something the
orchestra everyone was demoing on the
piano I mean as far yeah but maybe not
everyone but I don't know but it was a
way of being articulate about it and the
other thing is and this is
I mean this was the thing where I was I
will take credit for this
something was absolutely thought of as
the enemy of orchestras at the time you
know and especially our casual players
were all growing right know run the
other way and I remember going to all
those players in London saying let me
sample you and I promise you I guarantee
you it will create more work because I
will be able to convince directors more
easily that an orchestra sound is
something relevant and commercial and
will will enhance will enhance your
picture you know and then most of you in
this room at one point or the other
you've got to have to you know have the
same tools and and convince your
directors and go yes it sounds great on
these samples but there's this player I
know of this cellist you you know we get
like we we use different chalice because
you and I and I love that you know
because you you write for that chalice
and that is a particular tone that is so
important to that series you use
different players yeah I think he's you
definitely use different players because
I know I walk into a band well first
session I don't know anybody whoa
there's so many players like there's so
much talent yeah and there's this
amazing thing that happens I've always
found like when you have a director in
the room with the demos and you know
framing it in such that this is a bit
like you know you're doing your color
grade or you're doing it edit you can
touch the music cause you can touch the
samples you can change things on the fly
but that moment where you're in the room
with those those players and a lot of
people who you know don't necessarily
always do sessions they're just you know
really great young talent there's a kind
of energy I feel like with the
filmmakers where they feel like that
they're on set against sometimes and
they can actually reach out and touch
the music and inject story just through
performance in the same way they work
with an older and that's that's a really
amazing wonderful thing which i think
means that orchestras will always be
part of our culture and film music it's
I mean having just an all-electronic
score which was an amazing experience
going back as the orchestra is yeah can
I talk about that because Bend being
kept on coming so from the world of
having been so immersed in the world of
the orchestra
he actually put some Orchestra sessions
on blade row and I kept saying great
that's a really good idea that's loving
that let's just move them down a little
bit that'd be another cue that was
totally electronic and oh yeah that's
pretty good out there so we don't need
an orchestra I don't know yeah I ended
up with one cue with a little bit of
Webster it's what what you want you know
that's that's why I think that the you
know the only isolate what I call the
Icelandic intimate strings right is this
one palette and it's really specific
because you can hear those players and
then you know that like you what's that
sound you always use but fire library
which I love well there's this felt
under loud though it came from actually
I think the very first beta of their
when they started making samples and
then thankfully if they put it into some
later libraries and it's there's
something about you can hear the breath
of the boat yeah and just you creep it
in and such where the audience have no
idea that this it's there but by the
time you you're there you're emotionally
engaged and especially the way they've
recorded it you know beautifully up in
the gallery it's it's it's one of those
sounds which is literally the top of my
template I mean you know look part of
why why I got into this sampling thing
is is because those musicians inspired
me and I just wanted them I wanted to
have them hanging around with yeah you
know it's like there you go yeah such a
thing is like a true pianist man I
remember back when I was studying
conducting there was this when I went
one of the lessons was how to actually
create a pianist in our own Orchestra is
actual one of the hardest things was
your piece enlightened
well it was just this thing of if you
can hear the player next to you you're
too loud
and I remember watching rehearsals back
you know well maybe that players too
well that were yes is that but it's this
it's a it creates so much tension in a
good way
you know it's and it actually I think
requires even more energy than playing a
huge fortissimo but if there's something
so ethereal and just emotive I love I
love I love that you actually say that
because I've never been able to
articulate it but it's it really is the
truth that that the lot of the time that
I spent the longest with an orchestra is
is to try to get them to play quietly
it's so hard
it's all it's so hard to get beautiful
nice very tension quiet I'm always going
I think edge off right someone's going
to stall exactly if that was pinis I'm
cool okay so if you think that spin is
about I'm calling that like mezzo Forte
plus yeah so you're gonna have to go
through the performance pride I mean
working or movie where the whole point
was to be as franchise for a bit like
what you're saying you get to the point
where the consistency is falling apart
and the tones bullying and sometimes
they're quite embarrassed about that not
realizing that's actually a process the
story the more it sounds that you're
clinging on for dear life but what you
say about this sort of performance pride
is it's quite amazing seeing a section
go okay this is insane but we're gonna
nail it on this next part and there's
something it's like that team spirit and
you don't want to be the guy who comes
into the wrong it's quite it's very
inspiring well I have a feeling that
part of what Paul and Christian were
trying to do on this new library was to
get all these players into a room that
there would be a little bit of
competitiveness Jarius like Ohio said
well you know you know I've I better I
better give because the guy next to me
can hear if it's the most beautiful tone
or not you know so and
think it's itself an amazing testament
to the you know that these orchestras
are wrong but that you can actually find
60 amazing chalice in London do it and
there's no chanting going on there's no
dodgy play you know it's bit more
difficult to tell someone slightly had a
chairman says 60 of them
no doesn't your ear go because I have I
don't know I don't know this is sort of
a question for everybody I always hear
the person that place was the least
confidence and actually place quiet ill
in my ear just goes there he doesn't
know why he's playing that nervous he
doesn't know the contest is just there
you know and and that's what [ __ ] up
the performance for me you know I think
what happens is when you have a mass of
players is because you can never do it
in real life I mean part part of it was
to try to do something that you can
never ever III don't think samples
should be about mimicking reality I
think they should sort of try to
supersede reality so to have a section
which is that large it's basically about
getting something which is so silky and
so you know that you know that the the
mass of air being moved in a quiet yet
undeniable force is actually really
interesting and it's probably no other
room in the world that could even
accommodate that air if you think well
Abbey Road look Abbey Road one you can
put a lot of players and it's a
different the height it's the height yes
and it's it's all the swimmy stuff I
just really hope that Pope Mike's right
at the back and see all the sound of
teller yeah from back there that might
be it's such a versatile room because he
could Batman Begins I mean the one of
the it wasn't about writing a tune it
was about this idea that the French
horns would be up in the gallery so -
right architectural e sometimes we I'm
sure all of you have done similar weird
things you know it's fine I'm having to
get you start as a choir boy in supposed
evil because there is thirteen point two
seconds and I'm worried so it's fun if
your singing talents or Palestrina
victorious I think it's fine because
it's all modal harmonies not gonna have
some octatonic shift and it all sounds
great and then you some pompous
nineteenth-century guff like Perry or
Stanford or something just sounds like a
disaster because by the time you roll
throughout the you know late 19th
century chords down in the net it's it's
all become a completely different things
so so there's you know you're in good
historical but the horn for thinking
architecture right but then if you look
at those unbelievable like that the
talus those works which are all about
and Tiffany as well surround the
audience in a in an immersive experience
I mean that's kind of yeah that's a
Shinto Jeremiah sort of like right the
seven point one that's it
and it's kind of I guess what we will
strive for when we record film music and
now demo it is in a mess like truly
immersive to the audience and but that
idea is 500 years old I mean it yeah
they just didn't have quite so many
faders such a lesson that when Ridley
was shooting Hannibal and Florence he
was shooting a scene at the monastery
that had a small Brunelleschi chapel and
so everything was you know it's cordoned
off because they were shooting and I
wasn't I was in the chapel which really
became a storeroom and this tourist had
somehow managed to wander and
and he didn't see me I was just guys I'm
you know what box them whatever he
started really quietly humming and so
exciting the room and
started harmonizing with him it was just
like oh that's what this right that's
like a me images you know roll it round
and right but to see somebody who you
know he knew he could do that in that
room and he'd obviously snuck past all
the dogs everything because that it's a
mastery that is always closed and except
for when you have a film crew and he pay
the money but it was just such a such a
great lesson and and and acoustics
that's why you have to record in really
good rooms I mean it doesn't you know
it's not just some researchers it's not
just the instrument you you know you you
picked your you right to the room don't
you right to the room don't you right to
the room yes brass players play the room
to that correct creating legato
just knowing how long they happen you
know yeah I know I know they want that
yeah gives you an extra so I often take
quaver off right as the air does that
yes it does the clave it they're glad
for anyway yeah because they're good
breathe and the circuit right a louder
so much so many programed brass with
actual legato which is impossible it
always sounds unrealistic Isabel yeah if
you hear a sing on you edit out all that
all the breaths it's like you actually
feel physically strange there's
something wrong yeah it's it's about a
string player see that too it's always
amazing that sense of if they're gonna
come in together and you don't breathe
with them if you're you know out there
waving around zero there's no way
they're going to tear it's that sort of
that shared breath the wind players
brass players - it's quite oh no it's
quite a amazing thing to be part of I I
like doing samples not to click mmm but
conducted it sounds different yeah yeah
that's an interesting yeah but because
it's a shared breath that's it I never
knew what Paul's secret formula was
there was this thing about this bit far
away when they started what is the
secret fire
but for my other status it is about that
but it's like playing melodies or
playing in such a way that it's not just
okay here's a D sharp in five different
[Laughter]
and made them stand out from the
beginning cause it I'm not wanting to do
sin e other libraries but there was
nothing else like it when they started
doing it well it's not dissing our
loners I mean I use all the I I use
whatever I can that makes an interesting
noise for the appropriate thing I mean I
bet you use everything you can right
kinds of baseball cards a good some
pieces I think what's interesting is
that like a lot of the new libraries are
starting to emphasize the imperfection
and I think it's really inspiring to
like for instance the one that we use
for for blue planet they have these
clouds you know sort of Epping and
flowing all you know these articulations
and sometimes they would you know
there'd be like a woodwind or brass they
would pop up a little too much that you
couldn't necessarily use it in a in the
way that you wanted to but like you'd
hear like a rhythm in the way that it
would they would do that and and maybe
that would create a loop that would just
you know create the rhythmic start to a
cue or something so you know but the
Icelandic strings that you're talking
about I think it's interesting that like
it used to be let's get as perfect as
clean as possible and now it's kind of
like let's get some character and dip
them all yes yeah because I'm crazy I
just thought oh crazy anyway I don't
think it's just because he ya know I got
a nickel as a Tina and then power and
power and everybody because I thought
these are great but these belong to our
Lord Allah for Arnold's okay thank you
please maybe forgive me but what was so
interesting is that you you gave the
same instructions but two different
musicians
yeah and they sounded totally different
well that's the thing you know
it's it's it goes without saying you'd
think you know play so the sound almost
breaks but this violinist you know he
has a just different method of producing
that and and know if that was a an
interesting thing putting them side by
side yeah and and I don't think it was
fair of Tina to post a picture on
facebook of how our fingers look yeah I
bled my pinkie member on the holiday oh
yeah I wrote some ridiculous piano part
in the full knowledge that you were
getting all excited about the MIDI bass
and because I knew it was gonna be fed
MIDI to whatever that machines cool it
was just ridden right man enough meets
ugly side doesn't matter I'm not going
to play it you know we fight it through
the machine yeah with bitter comping
yeah like oh they're in the piano
yes but no on the dance floor but yeah
but I don't regret that was great I mean
but but that's the whole point
I mean isn't that the point of
[Music]
everything we do you know there's no
reason for Spitfire to do some insanely
crazy
SuperDuper expensive library right now
other than that that it's fed by the
ambition of us because we want to go and
write an impossible piece of music and
we want to have some impossible new
tools that inspire us to do something
that nobody has ever done before right
because because I mean again I'm looking
at the history of your life which has
now been in a funny way
all those years have been very much been
defined by Game of Thrones recently that
it's gotta be an adventure and it's
gotta be something it's all in part if
it if you knew now that everything
you've done on that series if at the
beginning on day one somebody
said to you this is the task this is
what you're going to do this is this is
the amount of music you're going to
write the this is the amount of
unsolvable problems we're gonna present
to you would you have said yes to the
following problem the cast of characters
and this is what's gonna have it that's
quite daunting for sure it's what you
said yes or would you have said let me
give you a phone number of somebody I
know that you should probably do this
now definitely have to sleep over but
you didn't because it's out like
whatever I mean the opening titles felt
like impossible and then you wrote them
and then you managed to move on right
what do you write them on did you write
them on a piano I mean I'm sorry this is
really like a dumb question
just because it's so obviously written
for that player I think I think it was
on the piano yeah I had the cello in
mind but it wasn't just a cello it was
that player right because I mean do do
you do this you do you write for
particular players in mind well yeah
sometimes I'll start to get into the
discipline that I'll just put the name
you know how something can get a bit
technical and it's like cello just a
toast for time people don't like it get
rid of that just put Steve because well
the apartment part for me is because it
stops you the limitations of samples
which are getting fewer and fewer but
you know if you listen to John Tavener
you'll son I think yo-yo Ma's been
sitting on that Allegra see yeah for one
minute and 57 seconds so far and it
sounds amazing it's just gonna sit on
the Emmy yeah it's gonna and so but to
reassure yourself you just sort of put
Steve yes
oh I Steve oh absolutely
you know I mean I haven't held onto an
Allegra see but but but the point being
that if you do put an A it actually does
sort of get you in mind of knowing it's
gonna go a lot further however good the
samples oh it's obviously gonna go well
I have that I had that this is how far
something gets come alright so the first
DreamWorks animated movie Prince of
Egypt the key scene the most important
scene is no it's not the parting of time
see you gotta get to the parting of the
Red Sea wire the death of the first oh
yes right death pretty grim right so
good kid stuff do get something so I
wrote this piece which I mocked up on
the most horrible cello sample for
literally solo channel one channel
seeing Tony please in front of my eyes
playing it and bringing it to life and I
remember playing it to Jeffrey
Katzenberg and he's going this you don't
understand this is a key scene I mean oh
no when the sky prays it on his channel
it's going to be I promise you if it
doesn't move you I'm gonna pay for for
hope I'm rewrite it I'll pay for the
whole Orchestra to come back he'll pay
for us to all fly back to London first
session Prince of Egypt no we're not
doing that cue yet we're just doing any
of something the cell phone rings and
out in the orchestra everything
Wow rude and then I see Tony getting up
out of his chair packing his channel I'm
going stop stop what's going on he's
right listen mate gotta go wife's having
a baby
look let me go she's gonna have the baby
I'll come back but after she's had the
baby
this could take a very long time luckily
she had the baby relatively so that
night he knows fashion and he came in
and he sat down and and he was I mean
you know he had a transcendent moment I
see there just witnessed the birth of
his child except out one take and in
typical Tony fashion just how was that
okay
did you go to another
no no that's and that was that you know
and it really was that one player
playing that beautiful instrument
playing transcendently and that's that's
what I want I want you know that's
that's why we're still hunting down
these samples because I am trying to
have transcendent performances that we
can use every day so that could have got
really wrong I felt I felt defeat you
know Plus bankruptcy it's also good to
always be pushing for new things because
in the same way that any given
performance of an orchestral piece it's
never the same thing twice even if it's
the same Orchestra and even if it's with
the same conductor if there's definitely
a grass is greener if you just sit using
the same samples all the time I don't
know if you fact what you've done anyway
so it's looking for new ones but you
totally have the grass is green
I don't ever have this experience is
you're just in snow oh what's that
that's kind of yeah those are really
good and the reason you're thinking that
is because when you hear the audio
Oh Maude 66 it starts doing that and you
go and you go into some other in
actually be that they're better like you
know it's no but that's what I mean
there are no better samples or worse all
right it's courses for course yeah I
mean there are certain symbol roles
I just cannot listen to you because I
remind me oh there is performance in it
because that's why you have that
sickening feeling of and maybe that's
why I have use the symbol role and
trendy hot gear right you know or hop
class marquetry oh no no mark trees yeah
no no but yeah exactly it's it's it's no
things which are sort of devices which
in a funny way don't get really any more
individual yeah and and and I make it in
a in a funny way my duty to figure out
yes a symbol role would be a perfect way
to get to this cart you know so
everybody else down a symbol role how
can i reinvent the device how can i go
and do something which isn't a symbol
world then serves the same emotional
problem so that was a spoke sort of you
know by with the illustration i if you
use echo where Henry's saying there's
something that there's a sort of strange
association you have with oh absolutely
that chord played on that sample it's
it's I personally think whenever there's
a new score and you're gonna have to
mock it up there's just something about
I'm gonna buy this library and even if
it's completely wrong there's gonna be
something in it yeah it sparks something
well well my world the symbol roll thing
really got me because my flashback
instantly to symbol rollers I used to
have one sample of a symbol roll so it
reminds me of abject poverty and
so yes the the simple role days weren't
that great you know let me put it that
way there's gonna be a chapter no I
don't ever want to go and use the symbol
roll again because it were my plus it
wasn't just not having money
it was have it not having ideas neither
you know because everybody else was
using a symbol mo to get into the the
cops or whatever you know I thought
that's what you're supposed to do and
then I realized I was sounding like
everybody else and you're not supposed
to do that yeah that's I got excited
when you guys said Oh Blue Parrot we
have an idea we have an idea for a
different type of Orchestra that point
dualistic thing you know I'm going oh
good luck good luck dangerous but you
know yeah it's just a different way of
expressing a musical idea no well
reinventing it I think oh you know we're
thinking of I just love the idea that
you guys were coming from a from a
different disciplines we're looking at
paintings during oh there's a painterly
approach to this is a person you know
III would have I would have done the
draw will go and hunt down an instrument
as opposed to what you guys were doing
which was think about what would a
painter do you know the nice thing was
when you have six hours of music to
write it was you know you have themes
and then you also have the sound to go
back to all the time that feels like
another theme this this right this
custom-made thing that's just for this
project that has to do you know
conceptually with what you're trying to
do and it's the same thing as going back
to a tune you know when you were when
you bring up those sounds it was like
okay we're in the ocean this is what
we're trying to do so yeah it was yeah
well that's that's my sampling and all
that stuff is the devil's candy because
yeah you sit on that project
and then it sounded really good on this
project and so everybody knows it now so
you have to go and do it all over right
and and find find a completely new way
of doing it it's that discipline at the
have a truly Bank slate
even when you have four thousand sounds
in front of you just don't have it yeah
but but then I don't know I mean what do
you do I mean you do you how do you have
like a beautiful template not well
because because you're laughs I'm not
yeah I'm the own probably the only
person who still refuses to give a way
better even if you do have a billion
things going on you can actually sort of
manage it better but it has a more
liquid wake you I mean I've started
flipping the cube a submit' has a much
better way of whilst you do have a
million things
hang on I'm in shock that this system of
management exists or that I've even
touched no no because I I love that that
I mean you know we've had this
experience you know where we both work
on the same on the same thing but it's
not just because we are different people
but because you use different technology
the result is slightly different you
know it becomes really interesting I
mean you were so where I am no no not
where you are so I headed like audio
manipulation you and Andy actually are
very much I mean the same well I I think
actually you are the worst because you
you you you you means the best yeah
because you show no loyalty to any
sequence or anything like this you know
you always use what's best for your idea
anyway and you have a template exactly
so everything is fresh it's like
lipstick do you know it's it's like
eating a Nobu you know you know and and
it's only sometimes that I come and say
you know something it might be really a
good
if you just used to bug study we are
really out of time yeah that the
sequencer is just as much an instrument
as DeSales as well you know is this that
that relationship there yeah I mean I
I've always been secretly sequencer
agnostic I think yeah you know and
sometimes I use logic sometimes if use
Ableton sometimes most of the time I use
Pro Tools because of the audio facility
what but um yeah I mean in each program
has their own way of its own sort of set
of limitations and advantages so I think
to be able to sort of go back and forth
between them is a really useful thing
it's like having a bunch of your tiles
or a bunch of cents for a bunch of
sample hmm and what being loyal to
anyone in particular
ya know except Lee you do it you'd I
mean he does it to an extreme degree you
know which which is exactly which is the
great thing because you know it's like
by be your predicted what is predictable
about Andy is the unpredictability of
what what's gonna what's gonna happen
there and then there's this sort of
amazing picture that is being created
the subsonic thing that you know you
never heard before you never expect it
right you know it's really good and it
it's it really is a painterly approach
you know and it's you know it and it
could only be Ondi you know it's like
there's like a big signature on the
bottom of fetch which is really cool I
guess in ProTools also that your
sessions is that you're committing to
ideas from the start and so you're kind
of seeing ahead multiple steps you're a
MIDI obviously a constantly shift and
change I enjoy I know instantly [ __ ] me
up you know I go down a particular route
and I think right this is the way and
then I realized no this is [ __ ] this
isn't working
okay delete select tool see ya
start again
yeah this it's this something akin to
buying on paper I guess
yeah with ink yeah yeah yeah I remember
having to use to work like that because
I just didn't have enough RAM and I
would have to balance all the time
that's how it's a little but it's in
it's nice because you're like this is
the idea that's like working with four
tracks right yeah yeah yeah yeah
especially when it comes to Sam Desai I
was remember recognizing there's a point
it could be a bit of a control freak
like me when I was doing Winter Soldier
the amount of viktor going off to Russia
and weird recording some people hanging
out under the 405 and just ridiculous
amounts all this weird source material
and cuz I was a control freak
each time a sound sort of evolved as I
need to know how we got here in case I
want to go back it's like one evolution
and Dom did that crazy singing thing
that became the Winter Soldier voice and
they went through so a bit like 12 years
of the history of drum and bass whilst
like it's been going in and out of
everyone's AK eyes it was spinning
around us all messing with it and there
reached a point about I don't know okay
well what that one I really like it how
did you know what just let go yeah I
don't even know how we got here I think
this one might have been the one that I
stretched and then Victor put in a bit
have you still got the chain of yes
growing yes just print it bounce it and
we'll just call it and then what you
know and you just end up with a sort of
family of printed sounds as because
funny I mean there is the technology
where you could potentially trying to
unwind everything burn what I love about
that sort of sound design aspect at a
certain point you do just go record it
that's right point it I got this
terrible habit I'm now thinking of it as
a terrible habit because of you that I
don't ever go through my presets or my
sense you know I have a sound in my head
and I have to create it from scratch and
the other day Dave actually made me go
through all these presets because we
were trying to like find and put a
pallet together sir okay oh wow I forgot
about oh this is pretty clear and I'd
actually made
just put them into this folder here you
know I'll take the with three and you
know what I did
I actually went made myself a folder of
those presets and because some of them
never were never used
I just you know they weren't appropriate
for that project but you know but good
because I hope that thing about I'm not
you know know what happens this I have a
sound in my head and if I play a preset
it blunts the memory of that sound and
then the next preset so by the time gone
through five presets you can remember
what you're trying to do right but this
was actually I didn't know what I was
going to do yet so it was actually quite
an interesting stage of the writing
process of going through those old
presets and all that that's really
interesting if I think about this in a
different way this could have come in
really handy no there were no
Bladerunner well don't worry
you know I mean that you know that was a
very pure project it's funny that you
were talking about like pushing the
orchestra on that because the synths
that you used are so part of the sonic
character and I couldn't imagine it any
other way
well I kept thinking about it like this
we're not gonna we're not gonna copy the
Vangelis go we're not gonna do that but
Vangelis had an orchestra in my brain
right and that was C SAT that was this
Orchestra right so why don't we go and
use the same Orchestra and just do
different things alright and express
ourselves differently yeah but just like
say well I wanna go and record an air
with these players there was the same
thing let's drag the C SAT and which the
last time I had used was a dark night at
air you know that poor thing and been
shipped over here put into storage
nobody and it was like some weird
miracle that I persuaded people to
actually drag it in here and
worked it was kind of amazing it was
almost like oh I know what to do here
yes it was that kind of came alive and
it lasted exactly five weeks and then it
died scored yeah but - maybe like one or
two notes right and it it literally died
and it was like okay well what that
means but done that's it yeah but there
was some funny moments actually where it
was like on the cusp of about to give it
up and it sounds making these very
strange sounds those trying play these
soaring melodies and it was all very
epic and exciting and then it would go
what's that that was really interesting
and then suddenly that turns into this
crazy motorcycle sound which and it's
it's it was a fascinating thing where
you know in the same way that with with
instruments with an orchestra with with
musicians you kind of you know you're
creating some sort of emotion but with
these machines if you don't have the
same attitude if it's something that is
analog and something which is tender at
all and so the cameras will record that
actually does think my other third or
fourth I've just been very discreet but
also recreating that with the zebras was
whispers fascinating because then you
know something that is so advanced and
so digital but the whole objective was
to make it sound like it was
temperamental and analog and strange and
alive I mean I remember trying to delve
into some of those patches you created
and I had absolutely no idea what was
going yeah I'm glad that they're still
things that I can do that puzzle you
know but I mean hang on a second because
I'm the oldest one in the room by a long
shot you all started off with the
sampling existing alright I think so
yeah I mean I did definitely
I'm from the Stone Age I was 14 and it
was an 8-bit Amiga great computer that
was not great so I suppose no I was
playing a lot of music before this
little cheese wedge shaped piece of [ __ ]
with a little thing coming around the
back going up an Amiga which in all
honesty I think I could redo to point
five-second burst but they were always
distorted right yes yes we'll have that
first ever sampler manboobs 1995's 760
with four megabytes of RAM and it was a
birthday present
and that was that was the rig was that a
MIDI keyboard a tape machine and a
sequencer think on some tiny Mac and
there and then a quad reverb which went
directly into the tape machine and it
was just that four megabytes was the
entire 16 MIDI tracks and something kind
of I still have missed that I'm
reinterpreting what he's saying it was a
birthday present so he did have like the
naughty uncle that was trying to lead
him astray into music you know I mean
you know my birthday presents would be
books on accountancy anything other than
become deteriorate anyway you are you
were encouraged to be employee
encouraged to be a musician I mean you
know yeah for sure
definitely I mean I had I was playing
more guitar than anything in the
beginning but I had a I had a keyboard
that had a 16 track step sequencer in it
that I would just one note by one like I
couldn't yeah you know I didn't know how
to play it and so I would program it in
and yeah I mean ah yeah I pro and you
worked how you were close at guitar do
you still close at guitar
yeah that's accurate what the secret man
here well I don't know but but what you
encouraged to become a musician this is
- not entirely no I mean I I wasn't
discouraged either it was it was kind of
like accountants is a Avenue you should
look at but was there any history of it
in your family
no okay that's pretty bright then yes
but yeah well you did college to be
country sister no cautiously my my dad
was an engineer is an engineer and my
mother's a literature teacher which I
think somehow makes sense to what we do
I don't know more than Pig father yeah
yeah but no no no musicians in the
family it was it was but it was
cautiously encouraged oh when you say
engineer I interpret that to mean
recording engineer you mean engineer no
I mean yeah yeah fire sprinkler engineer
which I almost went into the family
business
learned how to map fire sprinkler
systems I was terrible at it it might be
a good thing that you might have
inadvertently killed people but your
parents not I mean your parents I mean
any of your pets well you're not
terrified that you were going to go and
staff to death and live the life of her
I was I was told to study something else
first and have a real job and because
you ended up with that great guitar
teacher that hater so wanted to work
with right this this III know that the
the guy that hate have fought heroes
like swam from Brazil to work with you
just got it no but I just turned it
around and I said I want to let me try
it music first and then I'll maybe learn
something yeah don't start with the
coming yeah exactly
my dad had no he's gay doesn't matter
what they add the photos I had
photographic my dad had a number one hit
in Spain called the
our pot man hey so I had the photos of
dad circa like nineteen him and Chris
choir with seriously psychedelic shirts
and you know yeah
looking a little the worse for wear so
any any complaints about getting
involved in the record in Cydia would
just result in well the funny thing is
this I I knew
Henry stared and I had worked for Henry
stirred but I didn't know Henry oh yeah
and Bob Arum II came in one day with a
he said with a track and he said oh you
should listen to this and it was your
library album that you're done in your
bedroom yeah my secret it was supposed a
library was a bit of a subterfuge it was
not a library yeah I mean I spent two
and a half years on it and I just I just
thought it was absolutely amazing
I remember because I thought you you you
really need your way around the
orchestra and you basically said to me
no I'm not interested in oh yeah well
only do drum and bass I've got so much
to thank but I had two really weird
inverted but because I'd gone to all
these poor schools and was like you know
suppose get of high school and die
eating an Oxford and blah blah blah I'd
gone the other way and say look I don't
want anyone to know that I can go to a
piano and play you know how to classical
repertoire and whatnot and I've got so
much to thank hands for because he's
right because I started doing the sound
decide and whatnot and then you well
know you know get involved in the
orchestra and I was served yeah whatever
you know I'm saying enhance that alright
so you're just like a drum and bass guy
right so you could you you only know
about beats and so I said Wow no I said
alright well then let's of sitting you
down and saying well actually what's
what's actually and romina someone I
actually owe the the largest apology to
but it's my favorite story it's my
favorite story because I had basically
ignored you being here you made coffee
you made coffee and I thought I never
I'll see a few more interested in music
or if you played a musical and sorum or
anything and we were stuck on pirates
and you've in your typical polite way
said do you mind if when everybody's
gone home can I get on to your rig and
just try to solve the scene that nobody
could solve and the way I remember it
it's like yeah we all went home and the
next morning we came in and we prayed so
every cue that got rejected and then
when there was I in desperation somebody
said oh yeah I mean you weren't gonna
try something and it was the first sword
fight in the movie and you played the
thing back that I had worked on so hard
and couldn't solve etc and we all went
that's perfect
and it's I think it's the only time on
on any movie or whatever I ever saw a
queue just you know it was just
everybody was going yeah of course
that is it perfect and I do remember
what I said to you that I remember I
said you will never make me another yeah
but it was like I mean it really it
really was you know because you you you
were using the same material the same
tunes everything everybody had access to
written at five o'clock in the morning
in my cowshed or something
I couldn't nobody could make it working
you just took the same material and you
just and I it wasn't even about the
musicianship so much I knew story since
like there's a [ __ ] film composer
sitting right there making coffee what a
waste of time this guy this guy no son
because what you what you did was you
made Gore's movie look as if it had been
as if it had been shot to that music as
if the scene had always been designed to
that piece of music you made you made
her scene better
you made go look better yeah you know
make me another cup of coffee everything
your coffee wasn't that good exactly I
was a bit of miss casting that play
Jacob I always had high hopes but he's
disappointed me so far but I'm sorry
well yeah I've got you think I just
think I just think the history is
interesting the history of like I mean
you you know you all had balls of steel
to not become doctors and accountants
and whatever and and actually no you
were the funniest one tutor do you know
how you know my bed story mm-hmm here my
pen sorry I'm in my flat in London and
I'm watching this movie that shall
remain nameless and I detested it I was
- testing every second of the story
because I thought was pretentious and
awful but I loved the music totally
loved music so I watched the whole thing
through and gets the end and it says
Benjamin Ball fish oh not said so and I
was so driven by this that I looked I
looked him up on the internet and I
thought I found his email at or so I
sent him like some stupid email trick
hey I just watched your movie I just
really liked the music and then weeks or
whatever go by never hear from him right
and richard harvey pops by and I don't
know we're talking about something he
says I'm having lunch with Benjamin
Bathurst tomorrow okay
yeah I wrote him this email thing I
really loved his music but he ever
answered me
well I suppose what do you answer do you
hear somebody says I love your music he
go what yeah well thank you or whatever
and Melissa from that lunch I got back
to my flat and there was an email there
saying dear mr. Zimmer you probably mean
the composer Benjamin ball fish I'm the
lawyer bench
never yeah and you know hey you should
see hands he quite likes you and then
you send me the email and I was like wow
that's quite a story
yeah but if the coincidence of literally
after all those weeks getting that email
for a and and what what a sweet man I
don't know how I don't know how common
it's not presumably it's not an enormous
Lee common day right so that's what I
thought I guess not but yeah there is
some he's kind of my age too yeah he's a
medical orientation oh and if he thought
you don't MIT moment if you sort of went
to Penn said well maybe I could serious
composers on to me so I'm together a
little something on the gallows if he's
into I remember and then and then we I
think we met at air came to Sherlock
session where you had actually
ironically about a hundred cellos in the
room doing some crazy stuff and me crazy
stuff and a bad Joe yeah you gotta be
versatile yeah I don't look it's great
you know it's like destroying pianos
banjos accordions something new you know
and then the studio sitting there going
this is our big Christmas release
accordions there yeah it's like and bad
just it's like no and I did that thing
we put it in front of an audience and
the audience really got it you know and
and you have and that's why you know
that's why the samples do save you in a
funny way because he can go and mock
something up and put it in front of an
audience and you don't have to speak
because music is indefensible mm-hmm
I can't talk the most brilliant producer
I can't talk them into loving the piece
of music let me explain why your
reaction of not liking this is wrong
and once I finish this sentence it
doesn't but you know it's not just that
audiences I mean who knows what
directors were like in the 40s and 50s
and whatnot but I remember having this
arguing Matthew Bourne II so I'll just
bang it though because we're running out
times just like a few ideas and one I'll
just bang out on the piano I'll get it I
said Matthew and I've been rude but
because it's a bit of an Adagio him
here's my prediction I'll bang it out on
the piano just play it and just like
send it to me on the iPhone so here's
what here's my prediction you're gonna
go it sounds a bit like guy playing the
piano so no I won't do that like I've
never done so why don't you can you just
be patient like six hours literally just
sit and then also do this I don't know I
just do it just gonna rock it fine so
senator is that just you on the piano he
loves music
he's it really but my point being I'm
not taking the piss out Matthew I mean
there is a big difference yeah if you've
got some of those so and you program and
even if you've only got a few hours the
difference seen that going and and just
the nature of this is you know the decay
of a piano and whatnot there's no
because you're gonna get yeah it's so
I'm missing the bigness and the Cystic
what because it's someone planning
camera and so it really does help
director however much to exercise god I
promise you I've got so much imagination
let me fill in all the holes yeah but
that that's why I keep thinking you know
that there's the disconnect with
musicians it's just as great where
they're going oh I just need to get a
string library right well they're all
sound different because they're all
in its individual musicians with their
individual instruments making a sound
that I happen to like all right as or
might work for this project yeah it may
be not that way yeah no no it's like we
had to spend I heard the thing which
were so not Ben's fault I was in London
I'd written a thing and asked him to
record it with a violinist and you
picked the wrong bylaw yes for yes
casting really good violinist and I
heard this piece I went oh my god it's
this is a disaster the notes are wrong
everything is wrong it's and then I went
hang on do you not you know do you know
any other players and you bet your
friend pen pal
right who was on the road he was
literally in his car with his iPhone
recording this thing with yes no I don't
know that it came back to me it was the
same notes but it was yeah I was I
wasn't insane but if it's a you know the
performance the players of the
instrument and so it doesn't matter it
was recorded on an iPhone or nah it was
a diamond yeah you 67 assist all that
stuff it's it's you know cast your
players yeah yeah and that that makes
the whole difference no so this is this
business of temp as well I mean the
ideal of maybe we can work without temp
there was the you know had that
experience with that move the cure for
wellness with gore where was this idea
of no temp but that means you have to be
in my cutting rooms for eight months
whilst we cut and generate temp as we go
I don't feel so bad for you because that
was a film school
it totally was it was it was actually
the most extraordinary experience that
but just in terms of without actually
having samples which were performances
that whole process would have been
impossible because there was so many
times where they were you know we talked
and talked about concepts and that story
but without I should be able to show it
and and examine it with sound it was you
know all the words did you did you play
I mean when you when you because he had
your deadlines are pretty insane right
sometimes yeah sometimes yeah do you do
what Henry doesn't plan on the piano and
hope for the best don't you know
sometimes I played myself and sort of
fix it in a computer and at least try to
make it sound like what it could be like
it's yeah I don't try the piano no
actually I remember working on this one
she just forever on the piano I mean
literally I think two weeks I was a
simple and I remember floating up
Krishna and saying hey I think I got an
idea
can I just play it to you over the phone
and playing it and him going oh that's
really great and then a couple of months
later he said whatever happened to that
tune you played me over the phone
I never recorded it because it was
enough to play it over the phone and go
I'm going yeah that's do you know okay
yeah I've done that now now I need to go
deal with all the other stuff and I had
to actually sort of dig around in my
brain and find it
do you sing into your iPhone no case and
they use encounter to iPhone rhythms
I'll do here into the phone and
occasionally I do it all the time yeah
yeah it's always as if I wish my words
dude when you're driving it's like the
most dangerous thing in the world and
then there's always a bit if you're not
concentrating so you hit the stop part
then the wind dog comes up and then
there's like delete to get rid of the
meaningless default new recording
somewhere in there you can go oh I think
I just oh oh [ __ ] now what was oh yes
yes and then I'm randomly you know
everyone go so you can undo anything on
that for as long as you shakers because
that's what happens to me that's why not
do it anymore I start listening back to
it and like I hear my oh yeah so no I
don't do that well but I'm not trying to
do one upmanship here and Cubase vs.
logic but I've given that stupid
something in Cubase it doesn't need to
be the retros yes
that's saved me so many times you can it
depends on can you do exactly that logic
is no yeah that's quite good I tell you
what you get in logic if the thing has
been sitting there for a long time you
get 63 notes good it's a sort of a piece
which should it be suitably unpacked and
figured out then better you'd be better
off just dying yeah for this guy's I use
logic when it was still Sealab in the
90s yes rotator and I just remembered
this sort of resize how many tracks it
was but it was vertical yeah but then
there was this weird journey for me
towards Cubase via digital performer
because the deep you had this thing
where you could flexibly record with no
click and then add click later which I
had no idea how to do logic I know
there's a way yeah but I see that's the
only reason that's why I'm worried about
the Cubase I do that all the time I
don't go edit click it's run play in and
then it has to follow the performance
but if there's somehow they've nailed
that oh and the most insane a simple
idea that you were
verse polarity instead of the thing that
static of the barlines thing the celica
the other notes and the violence you can
move and and unlike this before me I'm
geeking out please do and that's that
I'm in but it is quite because I do a
zero click track that's all and then you
somehow gotta figure out it's it's
horrible either how to actually show an
orchestra where this frame is but yeah
Cubase somehow I don't know it's funny I
started on the bass and then travel and
show them what's that yeah it moves that
that's gone right whatever that was
that's gone and here's the rig right
right so that's you know I got Trevor to
thank for that well and they asked
Trevor because Trevor didn't know I
would I would insist that we would
record to click right you know and he
asked him you know he would go why am i
recording to this you know going to
click as your everything will be and you
know whatever we do later on we can find
our way back the clicker sir especially
if you've got like a disparate thing
that with collaborations going what know
if you don't have a click it's a bit
like ooh we've loved our religion right
there's no god but he was a record guy
these are tastes you you wouldn't even
know about you're much too young because
I remember working with Java in the 90s
and him saying I could I remember him
being on the phone what do you mean
where's that stuff in the Swedish guys
mm-hm
why isn't it on to what do you mean no
click yeah I believe in the click but
you know the click is your friend
see we can we can we can go make
anything work if we as long as you know
it's the common it's the common link to
us all in a funny that way yeah yeah
yeah don't even that timestamp thing you
know it's like there's no interpretive
way of going with clicks you know it's
either in or it's out you know you're in
time or you're not in time it's true but
there is something strangely romantic
and nice when orchestra naturally gets
what you're trying to say like with a
line like the sort of the horizontal
idea and it's sort of drifts but it's
telling a story and then in retrospect
you then move it backwards so it does
line up no it's something it's a kind of
weird thing where I don't know I've
never actually understood how musicians
pull that off where they can play
musically with one ear covered so they
can't really hear the tuning and this is
hitting your eardrum yeah but they're
still playing expressively and it's kind
of amazing it's I've always you know
it's definitely yeah are you sure you
don't that's the other thing mr. soft
with samples any sample you have it what
you're doing this at that when you buy a
new sample you have to learn it it's
because the attack on strength of
strings it's going to be slow and you
know if you play you really actually
what look at it you are going to be
behind and then you figure out you
instinctively figure out what that
latency is and you you start to be in
time so embarrassing I don't know if you
guys from this but whenever I play
something into a sequencer no matter
what it's always a little bit ahead in
other words if it were lay you'd be
twice as cool that's of my TT score
early reader
you wanna be about 60 milliseconds off
it and then right you've reached a Jedi
level of which I'm certainly not a tire
dhalsim here I'm always ahead of the
beat it's that muscle memory of okay I
know I have to shift this this way
before by quantizing earth but then you
sit in a room with a drummer or a bass
player and they're absolutely there
others just forget about it it's
something obey often base is a little
bit lazy in a really nice way and it's
always a bit disappointing people
quantize it and move it back in oh no
that was what was making it sound
slightly cooler than air just that's why
you you know that's why you cast your
music
yes exactly for their feel yeah you know
and very often and this is I I want to
see if you guys disagree I think it's
about volume as well
cool people don't play loud no they
don't sound like they're trying they're
gone they don't go ping they play
quietly and there's a richness to the
cell that's tone you know absolutely and
you know if somebody told me this
recently that like the really big John
Williams bit some really exciting but he
never goes to I get double therefore
it's don't sound the best that's given
up Wow
well I guess dinner yeah ping yeah you
know so but it's it's people can make
huge volume mmm through intensity right
so true so intention exactly are the
intention translates into the instrument
and there's that thing that happens in
an orchestra where the intention is
fortissimo but everyone is maybe sort of
Forte but they're listening to each
other kind of take the togetherness
about that it's becomes a collective
thing where the oak should have become
one instrument and it rarely happens
when everyone is just going completely
nuts yeah and and it's just like okay
play as loud as you can because then it
just becomes this kind of aggressive
forced soundness of the fullness
you know he sort of envelops you and you
can't help but you know just be
overwhelmed when it when it isn't
necessarily everyone playing as that
especially to be totally geeky and
totally pretentious in Marla second
there's this one bar you know your
mulleted footnotes for every bar how are
you should perform it and it says notes
of the conductor you need to hold this
part or the orchestra has reached the
you know that the highest crescendo they
can possibly reach so carry on conducted
and the choir hasn't come in for another
20 minutes or so so this bar comes and
it gets louder and he has the choir
stand up they don't do anything that's a
good fish I remember my uncle telling me
he did a live recording and Nigel
Kennedy playing space-filling violin
concerto and he said it was the weirdest
thing cuz when they recorded it live the
balance between him and the rest the
Hulkster was absolutely perfect and then
it was one of those things where they
were doing a sort of live makes no
releasing on CD later and when they just
listened to it yeah monitoring us just
like to D be short
that's so weird cuz when we were
monitoring it and we had the T and it
said well you know why cuz he was seeing
on yes now you're not seeing him you're
missing and he said I'd be he said over
the years I've been a bit geeky and I
figured out it's about 2 and 1/2 DB
really you don't see the soloist that's
really good to know it's about two and a
half because because my big lesson is
that you know doing Orchestra chorus and
I'm looking at the orchestra and there's
passion in their faces and there's all
that stuff going on I think it's an
amazing take and three days later I'm
listening you pull it a really boring
yeah so now what I do is when we record
Orchestra I forced myself not to look at
them right you know didn't literally
have my head down and just listen yeah
I'm just to take but by that because I
mean even as a kid you know
my mom took me to see a fight blender
play and I remember him playing that
last note and holding a finger on the
note and I'm hearing it and then I'm
still hearing it and then he took my
finger off and the note disappeared and
then she buying you know I loved it and
she buying me the record and the last
note just goes plunk because right we
have the series very only Ramin will
understand this one we have a great
German expression just alga HeartMate
mm-hmm which is very hard to translate
but it basically means the the eye is a
participant in Venice right exactly
that is the pose at the point I move
you're missing the tongue quite that so
in fact was perfectly legit for the
clients to stand up I'm not actually
doing this absolutely actually just the
whole point about the stuff we do is we
are we're not prefer not giving you a
performance we're giving you a recording
is a very it's a very different thing it
is and so look you know this better than
anywhere you can see you're actually a
professional conductor you know and and
you know I see you like you know all
that stuff's going on and it looks
fantastic but I'm not always sure if it
actually sounds fun well thankfully
don't make any sound as a conductor but
no but but it it's actually the
interesting thing I mean I was very
lucky it's been most much when he's
doing that and the process of rehearsing
is almost kind of getting the the sort
of dental hygiene in place where you
know the basics are there so that then
you can perform and you almost don't
want to necessarily even discuss
dynamics and and you know you just
you're gonna do it and and you should
have leave this sort of 10% for when you
you're so involved in this in the score
and in what look about is trying to put
across that you you know that's this
amazing sort of back and forth an
exchange of energy between the conductor
and the orchestra where you galvanize
each other and when it's a really great
Orchestra they've played together all
the time you actually don't need to do
very much it's just it's a sort of you
sort of facility
this synchronicity so that they become
an you know a one instrument and then
you cannot get out of the way and let
them perform and occasionally energize
an occasional but there is this thing
where you know if I could compose like
Marla or Beethoven to wear this it was
about revolutionising the orchestra and
about doing something which never been
done before but it is you you're right
it can look very strange and it's
because most of the work is done in
rehearsal and it's about that's when the
discussions when the interpretation and
the philosophy takes place and then
there's that extra 10% where you take
the audience on that ride with you and
whenever I make a recording it's always
really important for me to don't try and
capture that sort of newness and
freshness so that it doesn't feel like
it's just something that's been
constructed no I mean we've been and I
had and Pharrell I knew we had this
experience with Herbie Hancock right oh
well yeah we thought a further but we
all thought it was a really good idea to
get Herbie Hancock in to come and play
the piano right so we've found Herbie
and we told him what it was about and
all the sudden we kind of really excited
and he said so when is this and we said
well tomorrow because you guys but no he
came and he made one stipulation that it
would be his piano you know okay so we
got his piano yes its Fazioli and then
been spend two hours three hours I don't
know how long going through all the
written notes be like off the whole
school he played all of it you know
everything is as written on the page and
then he said well okay now just do your
thing and so what he did was he prayed
far less than was written right hmm but
he knew it all and every note he played
was important and was meaningful yes
because what you're talking about
there's this preparation at hand you
know to really understand what the notes
why the notes were there what the piece
of music was about and then to have a
great musician know what you were trying
to say and say it in his way it was
because I I thought is he
me being an idiot I thought he was going
to play more and he did exactly opposite
that's right it was really everything
yeah and and every note he played was
touching and yeah it's Oh Priya
and it really brought like why he wanted
his instrument because he started
creating these voicings which was
actually quite simple very open voicings
but he knew that with this Fazioli there
was a resonance and they're kind of
there was a motion to be had from that
particular combination of sounds with
that particular piano and I was moved to
tears during the session wait we all
went yeah and I'm a pretty you know be
I'm pretty cynical it really was it was
like for me it was a lesson of why this
man is an artist as opposed to but you
know everybody can say he's a great
pianist sure but it went so beyond list
and hidden fingers was like that across
the board there were the orchestra -
there was all about intention and story
and there was no sort of musical
musician there yeah there was this
incredible it wasn't our idea was very
else idea he said you know well this
what movie really is about women and
African American women etcetera and just
like a Julie mentioned can't we have
more of those in the orchestra and if so
we saw a route to go and find all these
players that are don't normally play
session so when they started to play you
you know how you can disassociate
yourself from the from the notes and
actually just hear the sound you know
and I was listening to the sound and the
sound was crisper and more beautiful and
more purposeful and anything had ever
heard in my in an orchestra here you
know and it was exactly the same room
with the same mics and Alan you know it
was different it was absolutely
different it was and you know to search
it was extraordinary well there was
there was intention that went beyond
okay we have to pay these notes in time
they knew why they were play everybody
knew why they were playing those knows
they say about playing for themselves
yeah you know it was it was death that
music had become their music and and and
but but it did something to the actual
it I don't know it did something to the
instruments I don't know what I did but
it there's a clarity and a brightness
around a brittleness of brightness that
no EQ can give you that's true yeah yeah
it was really remarkable so yeah so yeah
cast your players right you know it's
it's that there's this reason for what
you know there's a reason for why you
want to go and record there with this
Orchestra or with these players whatever
you know it's not the strings they are
individuals and just you know the more
you can capture that way ahead another
thing that's I found experimenting with
is this idea of should you have all the
orchestra in the room at the same time
playing at the same time which hen's way
years ago well that's it but if you're
writing some insane brass writing for
example and the strings are doing some
scurrying stuff to support the buzz the
strings aren't going to be quite as
motivated if they're not being
obliterated but then you'll find stuff
yeah yeah I'm saying yeah it gives you
more control in the mix I think it
depends you know if you had done
whatever the string arrangements one
played run it you'll see you know you
don't even say that that but the I just
did Jumanji in a style that sort of
disappeared in the mid 90s that kind of
thing you you'd been saying not to do it
apart from that all the percussion
you've been saying on for tuning for
samples exactly because it's so old
school
it really is it's it's like the opposite
of what hands are saying about you know
half as sometimes you're doing things
which are deliberately going completely
outside and what a traditional orchestra
does the school like that it's doing
exactly what a symphony orchestra know
if you don't have them all in the room
per se like that you're asking for it's
an i trouble it's an answer in a way
that's not true you know when you're
putting the mighty jigsaw together for
something like Dark Knight well it's a
it's a different style yeah it's a
complete both styles
brilliant Liam yeah in the same way
you'd be insane to put them all in the
room for a dark night you know I mean
that would be not dreaming yeah
you've now can't build your perfect
jigsaw no Andy I mean I did on boss baby
you know Steve Basar and I got Conrad
pope in beautiful Orchestrator and I
said okay Conrad you're gonna have one
task I'm gonna give you the tiniest
amount of notes and I'm gonna give you
three months to go and make this
beautiful thing for the orchestra
there's going to be one cue were you
only responsible for one cue and it was
one of those which you know I wanted it
to have a sense of the old orchestra and
everybody playing together and literally
even the first you know the first
run-through with nobody wearing
headphones and just Conrad conducting
and well it was completely magical it
was completely that and you completely
understood why we had to have music in
the world two years it was one of those
sort of things you know and it was very
efficient very fast you know and and you
know look it wasn't just a treat working
with him as well you know it's like and
and he demoed it a lot by the way it was
oh it was all locked up before and it
didn't it didn't change the notes never
changed you know but when when they all
played it it's that thing he said with
the king you know everybody took that
breath and then exhale was extraordinary
yeah it also sounded but the brass easy
a bit less bright hmm because I mean
they're literally in the room it's like
wait way more people and it's that thing
of musicians inspiring each other yeah
there's so much you can do with a
pre-recorded in one in one ear
well depending again depending on the
style of what it is but but yeah I
suppose my question was do you think
it's possible to inspire musicians in
the same way as having everyone in the
room when they're not in the room
through pre-record have you ever do that
never no no I mean it says the jigsaw
thing works precisely because they don't
they don't necessarily need to know how
the city is being built ways if you have
if you have a more traditional symphonic
style you absolutely need to know how
city's being put and you're hearing it
right around well you see I have a
problem with with that theory which all
of you have purchased you make the
orchestra into one I don't think you do
that at all by having everybody in the
room I think what you do is you get to
sum total of every individuals
expression yes as opposed to doing what
I like doing depending on what you know
what the thing is where you say okay now
it's just the brass analogous the
ostinatos whatever you know this thing
we were talking about that is about
singularly my vision and I want
everybody to play the way I would play
it if I could play it so that's when it
becomes one and it's it's assertive
style you know and and it's it excludes
the it excludes the individuality of all
the players you know it's it's very
precise and then you know and then we go
and make it worse because we go in to
produce and we can go absolutely shift
the timing and lock it so that that
because it's the same as you playing it
on the piano as an individual you know
you just make the whole Orchestra into
your fingers all right
it's the authoritarian very CEO sorry -
yeah absolutely
it's the dictator so you're allowed to
play but you must have thoughts of your
own feelings that works so precisely you
know I mean you know I mean Ramin
correct me if I'm wrong because you were
there I mean what we were trying to do
in a funny way we were trying to
create a dystopian cold world that was
very very different from from from you
know the Jolly emotional worlds that you
know you know it was it was quite the
opposite you know
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