The REAL Reason Why Blackrock is Buying Bitcoin
Summary
TLDRIn this transcript, Robbie Mitchnick, Head of Digital Assets at BlackRock, discusses the firm's journey into Bitcoin and the broader cryptocurrency space. Mitchnick highlights BlackRock's strategic approach, beginning with studying the technology and asset class, and evolving over six to seven years. He emphasizes the importance of client demand, regulatory progress, and the maturation of market infrastructure. BlackRock's entry into the Bitcoin market through ETFs and other investment vehicles reflects a careful, client-focused strategy, with an eye on long-term portfolio construction and risk management. Mitchnick also addresses the misconceptions around Bitcoin's correlation with other asset classes and its role as a diversifier in investment portfolios. The conversation touches on the future of Bitcoin on Wall Street and the potential convergence of traditional finance and blockchain technology.
Takeaways
- 🚀 BlackRock's journey into Bitcoin started 6-7 years ago with a careful study of the technology and asset class.
- 🛠️ The development of infrastructure and institutionalization, along with regulatory progress, laid the foundation for BlackRock's moves in the Bitcoin space.
- 💡 Persistent and growing client interest, despite market cycles, was a significant driver for BlackRock to enter the Bitcoin market.
- 🏦 BlackRock's decision to engage with Bitcoin was not influenced by concerns over their win-loss approval record.
- 🤝 Partnerships with firms like Coinbase and the launch of a private Bitcoin fund were crucial steps in building capabilities for asset management within the crypto space.
- 💪 The successful launch of the Bitcoin ETF in 2023 was fueled by clear client demand and the company's long-built capabilities.
- 📈 Investors are increasingly choosing Bitcoin ETFs as a more accessible, lower-cost, and convenient solution for Bitcoin exposure.
- 💰 The diversity of investor types and their varied rationales for utilizing the ETF have been surprising and broad, ranging from small to ultra-high net worth individuals and institutions.
- 🌐 The market for Bitcoin is expected to continue evolving with the entry of new types of allocators and practices such as rebalancing.
- 📊 Correlations and the role of Bitcoin as a potential diversifier or hedge within institutional portfolios are key topics of current debate and education.
- 🔍 Achieving small wins and maintaining a discerning approach are essential strategies for institutions just beginning to explore the Bitcoin and broader crypto space.
Q & A
How did BlackRock come to the decision to get involved with Bitcoin?
-BlackRock's decision to get involved with Bitcoin was not a sudden one. It was a journey that started six to seven years ago with studying the technology and the emerging asset class. The company observed the evolution of infrastructure, institutionalization, and the regulatory climate. Most importantly, they noted a consistent and enduring interest from their client base, which expressed frustration with the lack of efficient, secure, and convenient exposure solutions to Bitcoin. This, combined with the capabilities that BlackRock built over the years, led to their current position in the Bitcoin space.
What was BlackRock's approach to integrating Bitcoin into their offerings?
-BlackRock took a measured approach to integrating Bitcoin. They began by studying the technology and asset class. In 2021, they started working with Coinbase Prime to integrate their trading and custody services into BlackRock's Aladdin investment solution. In 2022, they launched a private Bitcoin fund, which was a critical step in developing their capabilities as an asset manager. By 2023, they had laid the groundwork to offer a Bitcoin ETF, driven by clear client demand.
How has the regulatory climate for Bitcoin evolved according to BlackRock?
-According to BlackRock, the regulatory climate for Bitcoin is not perfect but has come a long way, particularly in the last three to four years. This improvement in the regulatory environment has been a significant factor in BlackRock's decision to move into the Bitcoin space.
What was the driving force behind the creation of BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF?
-The driving force behind the creation of BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF was the consistent and enduring interest from their client base. Clients were increasingly frustrated by the lack of efficient, secure, and convenient exposure solutions to Bitcoin. This, combined with the capabilities that BlackRock had built over the years, led to the launch of the ETF.
How has the Bitcoin ETF been received by different investor types?
-The Bitcoin ETF has been received by a broad range of investor types, from small-dollar investors to ultra-high-net-worth individuals, wealth advisory, and institutional clients. The demand has come from various use cases and rationales, reflecting the diversity of interest in Bitcoin exposure.
What are some of the misconceptions about Bitcoin's role in portfolio construction?
-One of the misconceptions is referring to Bitcoin as a 'risk-on' asset. This term implies correlation to equities and fixed income, which is not accurate for Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a risky asset due to its volatility and uncertainty, but it has a fundamentally different macro variable driving it, which is its correlation with real interest rates. Educating institutional investors about this distinction is a key part of BlackRock's engagement with them.
How does BlackRock view the future of Bitcoin in relation to cycles and market volatility?
-BlackRock believes that cycles in Bitcoin are here to stay due to its reflexive nature. The price movements of Bitcoin influence and are influenced by its perceived success and adoption. While volatility may decrease over time, the cycles of bull and bear markets are expected to continue even in an increasingly institutional environment.
What is BlackRock's strategy for educating clients about Bitcoin?
-BlackRock focuses on educating clients about the unique characteristics of Bitcoin and its role in portfolio construction. They discuss the importance of understanding correlations, the macro variables driving Bitcoin, and how it functions as an asset class. This education journey is a significant part of their client interactions and is designed to demystify Bitcoin and foster informed investment decisions.
What advice does BlackRock have for other institutions looking to engage with Bitcoin?
-BlackRock advises other institutions to start small and aim for wins that build familiarity, expertise, and credibility with the technology and asset type. It's important to be discerning and ensure that projects are well-executed. Additionally, everything should be considered from the institution's standpoint rather than individual passions, to ensure strategic and risk considerations align with the institution's goals.
How has the involvement of traditional financial institutions like BlackRock impacted the perception of Bitcoin?
-The involvement of traditional financial institutions has brought Bitcoin closer to the mainstream financial system. It has provided a familiar and convenient way for investors who were previously uncomfortable with digital asset rails to gain exposure to Bitcoin. However, there is still a place for both traditional and digital-native investment exposures, and BlackRock sees a future where the best of both worlds converge in the next generation of financial infrastructure.
What has been the most surprising aspect of BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF for the team?
-The most surprising aspect for BlackRock's team has been the breadth of investor types that the ETF has resonated with and the variety of rationales for wanting exposure to the ETF. They did not expect such a wide range of use cases and reasons from different investor segments, which has been a significant revelation for them.
Outlines
🚀 Introduction to BlackRock's Bitcoin Involvement
This paragraph introduces Robbie, the head of digital assets at BlackRock, who has been instrumental in understanding the value of Bitcoin and advocating for its integration within the firm. It outlines BlackRock's journey with Bitcoin, starting from studying the technology and asset class about six or seven years ago. The decision to get involved with Bitcoin was not sudden but a result of evolving infrastructure, institutionalization, regulatory climate, and consistent client interest. The conversation also touches on the internal decision-making process at BlackRock and the development of capabilities over the years, leading to the current state of their Bitcoin involvement.
💡 ETFs and Client Demand
In this paragraph, the discussion focuses on BlackRock's ETFs and the significant client demand that led to their creation. It highlights the company's stellar track record with ETFs and the decision-making process behind launching a Bitcoin ETF. The conversation delves into the client base's reaction to the ETFs, the reasons for the rapid capital inflow into these funds, and the different investor types attracted to Bitcoin access through these ETFs. The paragraph also discusses the role of BlackRock as a trusted name in the industry and its impact on various pools of capital, such as pension funds and sovereign wealth funds.
📈 Market Dynamics and Portfolio Construction
This section explores the market dynamics and the role of Bitcoin as a part of portfolio construction. It addresses the concept of Bitcoin as a 'digital gold' and the challenges in understanding its correlation with other assets. The conversation emphasizes the importance of education and the need for traditional investors to understand the unique characteristics of Bitcoin. It also discusses the potential future of Bitcoin on Wall Street and the expected convergence of traditional finance and cryptocurrency-native systems.
🗣️ Public Communication and Client Interaction
The focus of this paragraph is on the public communication strategy of BlackRock, particularly regarding its involvement with Bitcoin. It highlights the significance of Larry Fink's statement on Bitcoin as a flight to quality and the impact of such public endorsements. The conversation also touches on the responsibilities of BlackRock as a thought leader and the importance of a measured and thoughtful approach to communicating complex topics. The paragraph concludes with a discussion on the role of correlations in portfolio management and the implications for institutional investors.
🛠️ Advice for Institutions Considering Crypto
In the final paragraph, Robbie offers advice to other institutions considering involvement in the cryptocurrency space. He emphasizes the importance of starting with small wins to build familiarity and credibility, being discerning in project selection, and maintaining an honest broker stance, focusing on the institution's perspective rather than personal passion for crypto. The conversation also reflects on the surprises encountered during BlackRock's journey, such as the diverse range of investor types interested in the Bitcoin ETF and the various rationales behind their interest. Lastly, Robbie provides tips for engaging with traditional financial institutions.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Digital Assets
💡Institutional Investors
💡Bitcoin
💡ETFs (Exchange-Traded Funds)
💡Regulatory Climate
💡Client Demand
💡Portfolio Construction
💡Market Cycles
💡Technology Integration
💡Risk Management
Highlights
BlackRock's journey into Bitcoin started 6-7 years ago with studying the technology and asset class.
The evolution of infrastructure and institutionalization in the Bitcoin space has come a long way in the last few years.
BlackRock's client base consistently showed interest in Bitcoin, even through market cycles.
In 2021, BlackRock began working with Coinbase Prime to integrate their services into the Aladdin investment solution.
BlackRock launched a private Bitcoin fund in 2022, a critical step in developing capabilities as an asset manager.
The Bitcoin ETF was introduced in 2023 with massive and clear client demand.
Investors are choosing BlackRock's Bitcoin access over direct investing due to lower costs and convenience.
There are three main investor buckets for BlackRock: end investors direct, wealth advisory, and institutional.
Large pools of capital, such as pension and sovereign wealth funds, are engaging in discussions with BlackRock about Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is considered a risky asset, but its correlation with equities and fixed income is low, making it a potential diversifier.
Bitcoin's macro variable is its correlation with real interest rates, which have driven asset performance recently.
The Bitcoin community has mistakenly embraced the idea of Bitcoin as a 'risk-on' asset.
BlackRock is focused on Bitcoin and Ethereum, with little interest in other cryptocurrencies.
The market for Bitcoin ETFs and institutional investment is expected to continue growing, but cycles of boom and bust are likely to remain.
BlackRock's entry into the Bitcoin market was a deliberate and measured process over many years.
Larry Fink's public statements on Bitcoin as a flight to quality reflect BlackRock's institutional perspective.
BlackRock's advice for other institutions is to seek small wins and be discerning in their approach to new technologies.
The variety of investor types and rationales for using the Bitcoin ETF has been a surprise to BlackRock.
Transcripts
all right next up uh we have Robbie
mitnik uh who is the head of digital
assets at Black Rock um Robbie is uh by
far I think one of the smartest
institutional investors um and uh
operators that has figured out uh some
of the value proposition of Bitcoin and
then done immense work internally at
Black Rock to uh to get them on board
and uh we we'll see if he was part of
the Larry Fink orange pill but uh Robbie
come on
up all right how did Black Rock decide
that you guys wanted to get into the
Bitcoin
game uh well we didn't just wake up one
day and make that decision um I think
that you know you look at our journey it
goes back really now uh six seven
years and it starts with studying the
technology and this emerging asset class
in a very measured way out of the gate
right and I think if you look
at the state of what it was then versus
what it's
become that really uh Paints the picture
of how we ended up making the moves that
we did right in terms of the state of
infrastructure and
institutionalization you know that has
come a very long way
particularly in the last three or four
years right the state of the regulatory
climate it's not perfect obviously but
that has come a long way and then most
importantly for us uh the level of
interest that we had from our client
base that was consistent and enduring
even through the bull and bare Market
Cycles we saw that very clear pattern
that our clients were increasingly
interested in this and increasingly
frustrated
by uh the availability of efficient
TurnKey convenient secure exposure
Solutions uh with which to get into this
space and when you put all those
together and you add sort of the the
capabilities that we built over multiple
years then you get to where we are today
so take me inside the organization um
you all do this work at some point
there's kind of a zero to one decision
hey we we should do something in the
space um
ETFs you all have a stellar track record
I think at uh the time of filing it was
575 and one um is there a fear that I
don't want to be the one to be the
second you know 575 and two or why ETFs
and kind of how did you build the
confidence to say hey look we think
actually we can get this through with
the with the
Regulators uh well there's certainly a
lot of things that we considered in that
decision but I can tell you that one
thing that we never considered was what
will it do to our uh win loss approval
record um you know it came down to if
you think about some of the things that
we did that laid the foundation right uh
starting in 2021 we began working with
with coinbase with coinbase prime to uh
integrate from a technology capability
standpoint their Prime brokerage trading
custody into our Aladdin investment
solution so that crypto uh specifically
Bitcoin
uh out of the gate uh could uh be part
of the whole portfolio for the Aladdin
clients that that that chose it to be uh
and then in
2022 we uh launched a private Bitcoin
fund right which was really important in
term one that was all you could do from
a regulatory standpoint at that time but
two in terms of developing the
capabilities as an asset manager in the
space that was limited to our largest
institutional clients in the the us but
it was a really critical stepping stone
then you get to uh start at
2023 and that's when we started to put
uh the pieces in place to take that next
step and and deliver the ETF which at
that point we had uh massive and clear
client Demand right that they were
frustrated with how difficult it had
been to get exposure you had some
clients who had tried to get exposure in
this space and they' you know been
subjected to High fees high risk
underperformance the price of Bitcoin in
many cases all three uh or maybe even
worse they missed it entirely which was
you know Bitcoin is the top performing
asset in the world the last decade and
seven in the last 10 years and they
missed it because they didn't have the
the wrapper the format in a convenient
accessible
way once you get the approval um I was
pretty bullish on the ETFs I thought hey
this is going to be uh quite exciting I
did not think we would see the inflows
that we saw as quickly as we saw did you
all think this would happen and what has
been your kind of reaction or or you
know analysis as to why so much Capital
has flowed so quickly into these uh
funds yeah it's been uh it's been an
interesting couple of months um you I
think investors are resoundingly
choosing ibit for uh Bitcoin access
whether that's uh you know new investors
to the space who weren't willing to do
it when it had the frictions that you
know for some Bitcoin direct investing
uh incurred uh or investors who are
already in the space but are choosing
this as a uh you know more efficient
lower cost uh more accessible convenient
exposure solution so you put those
together it's been obviously a lot but
when we think about our um you know
business in our client base you have
really kind of three buckets you could
you could put it in right one is uh end
investors direct and that channel you
know right out of the gate you know has
been very strong obviously a lot of
interest in demand right from small
dollar up to ultra high net worth type
uh players then you have wealth
advisory which um you know many of those
uh home offices are are wealth advisory
Partners they're still undergoing their
diligence processes right so for a lot
of these firms it's it's not approved at
all or it's not approved other than on a
unsolicited basis where the the client
has to ask the advisor can't propose it
um so that's still you know pretty early
days and then on the institutional side
we're having lots of great conversations
a lot of sort of research and diligence
and education happening but that's early
they they just operate on a longer time
scale and so it'll be interesting to see
you know as the months and quarters
unfold how those other channels start to
come on now one of the things I think
folks are very excited about Black Rock
is there's a trusted name and there's a
lot of relationships and um some of the
pools of capital that previously have
not participated you know very large
Pension funds Sovereign wealth funds uh
you can kind of go down the line of
these pools um any insight into what
those conversations look like so far are
they open to learning more are they you
know hey guys I don't want to talk about
this where are those like kind of larger
pools of capital
currently yeah I think I think that
there is a really really important uh
discussion debate analysis going on of
how to think about this from a risk and
portfolio construction perspective and I
would say that the um Bitcoin and you
know crypto industry broadly has not
done a good job at all of speaking the
language of traditional investors right
and one of the I think most confusing
unhelpful things that happened in the
postco era was um you had people sort of
accept this idea that Bitcoin was a risk
on asset whatever that even means right
it's kind of devoid of of
fundamental uh basis that concept to
begin with but um Bitcoin is a risky
asset right it is volatile it has a lot
of uncertainty but risk on is a
different thing right it implies
correlation to equities fixed income
what have you um and what happened was
Bitcoin has one in our view uh
fundamental macro variable where it is
highly correlated with
equities and that is it is massively
short real interest rates right it is
short nominal rates and it is long
inflation expectations and real interest
rates is nominal rates less inflation
expectations so it's massively short
real interest rates
and real interest rates drove every
asset Under the Sun between 2020 and
kind of early 2023 right they collapsed
therefore a lot of assets including
Bitcoin rocketed and then they surged as
fed started hiking and inflation
expectations rolled
over and so the Bitcoin and Community
sort of embraced this idea that it was a
risk on asset which um I think was
problematic for two reasons
uh one because it was actually
counterproductive to them but two more
importantly it's fundamentally it's
probably wrong right if we think about
long-term
fundamentals and what it means to be a
global decentralized scarce
non-sovereign asset a lot of those
fundamentals paint you know Mike was
talking about some of these Dynamics and
challenges the US fiscal situation and
otherwise they paint a very different
conclusion in terms of how to think
about it versus other assets on a
long-term basis so what's happened is
those institutional investors they get
kind of this digital gold
hypothesis but then they look at the
past data from you know 2020 to 2022 and
they go well you know long-term
correlation was low but then it spiked
so you know how do we think about this
in portfolio construction so that's the
kind of education Journey that we're
on now you guys just um I think put in
application uh or announced a new type
of fund um that is going to partner with
securitise um tell us a little bit about
what's the general idea there um and
should we expect Black Rock to now go
from Bitcoin you know kind of building
this fund On ethereum and Here Comes
everything else and as Mike said you
know dog with hat is going to be the
next uh fund you guys launch like how do
you think about what that fund is and
then kind of like the long taale of
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go check them out today yeah I think
that um crypto Twitter would would love
to believe that dog with hat ETF is
coming next I actually don't know what
dog with hat even is didn't get that
reference but um you know that answers
that
question what what I can say is that um
for our client
base it is Bitcoin overwhelmingly number
one their
focus a little bit in
ethereum and very very little everything
else and when you think about it in
terms of you know various metrics and
dimensions I mean Bitcoin 52% of the
market cap of the whole asset class
ethereum but 17ish today maybe 18 and
the next that is even sort of investable
is like three right uh and so there just
Worlds Apart there in terms of you know
track record liquidity product Market
fit investor narrative Clarity all these
things right so that's where um I think
there's some misplaced uh speculation
that there's going to be a longtail of
of others from us and that's really not
where we're focused now as large pools
of capital come in whether it is
actually you know the pension Sovereign
weals Etc or just a lot of capital flows
into the ETFs um it feels like the
ground under underneath the Bitcoin
Market is shifting a little bit there's
new types of allocators um things like
rebalancing which is you know basically
blasphemy in the Bitcoin Community uh
now come into play and so do you expect
volatility to dampen do you expect the
end of the kind of the fouryear cycles
and the big boom and bust how do you see
the market moving forward given these
ETFs and other institutional
players yeah it's a great question I
certainly don't think um we've seen the
end of Cycles uh in Bitcoin I think you
know by its
nature um there's reflexivity in it
right which is and that's and that's
hard for a lot of traditional investors
to wrap their heads around as you think
about it you know if you think about a
stock the stock price goes up but now it
looks more expensive on a PE basis or or
what have you uh and it goes down it
looks cheaper on a PE basis um with
Bitcoin when the price goes up the
probabilities of success and adoption in
some sense is as digital gold are also
changing when and when bad things happen
the price goes down those probabilities
you know are also changing so you create
reflexivity and um that just reinforces
the idea that you're you're going to
have these Cycles I think that they're
still here to stay so people need to be
wary of you we'll have bull markets
we'll have bare markets too uh even in
this sort of POS institutional World um
and then what becomes interesting is how
do you think about the direction of
volatility right because volatility over
time has has pretty steadily come down
so maybe that continues to come down uh
certainly returns going forward uh will
come down it's not going to return 124%
a year uh over the next decade like it
has uh the prior decade so these are the
kinds of conversations that we're having
we're getting lots of questions from our
investors and that's a big part of the
education Journey now um when Black Rock
decided to do this uh it struck me as
literally the executive team the CEO all
the way on down there's got to be a lot
of Buy in to get to this point um I was
shocked when Larry thinkink went on
television and said people are buying
Bitcoin because it is a flight to
Quality um I joked with friends uh I may
have tweeted and said it's almost like
he's the chief marketing officer of
Bitcoin um put aside the honorary title
so so you came up with that title yes I
came up with that title not you um but I
I certainly didn't to talk a little bit
about um you know this idea of Black
Rock going out and talking about it
because you guys could have just filed
an ETF right but but actually having
Larry or others from The Firm talk about
this and this idea of flight to Quality
it's very different right if a bitcoiner
goes and says that people okay whatever
but when a firm that frankly has built
their reputation on helping investors
find quality assets and allocate for the
long term has done a very good job of
doing that says it it has a different
weight to it and so how do you guys
think about you know maybe internal
thoughts versus you share with clients
versus kind of you know Public
Communication around
this yeah I think you know when you have
topics that are novel and complex our
clients expect us to be a thought leader
and a thought partner with them right so
so that comes with the territory and and
that's what you know made our digital
assets Journey over six seven years be a
a very deliberate measured process right
because we understood the know the
import of our weight and our voice and
to get to a point where we are today
that took a lot of study and experience
and
education um and you know the things
that that we say come from a a measured
thoughtful place right it's not by
accident one of the things you and I
have talked about recently is
correlations and I think this is one
very misunderstood um but also two uh
sometimes it can be hard for people to
do the work to really understand what
what the facts are there and so how do
you all think about correlations inside
of these portfolios and maybe positives
or negatives based on those
analysis yeah I mean I think it's
probably the single most important uh
debate right now in thinking about
Bitcoin where you know historically
bitcoin's long-term average correlation
been uh close to zero slightly slightly
positive but close to zero but it's had
periods where it's spiked similar to to
gold gold has had periods as well where
it spiked actually if you put their
correlation charts in the time series uh
they look remarkably similar um but
that's a really important thing for
institutional investors when they think
about portfolio construction because
they're trying to understand in a small
allocation is this risk additive to the
portfolio or actually is it potentially
a diversifier or even a hedge right so
that's a really critical conversation it
also is important for um you know and
investors to understand because it's the
reason that um you know Bitcoin is
generally not appropriated in a large
concentration in a portfolio because in
a large concentration its
volatility becomes a huge driver of risk
but in a more modest concentration than
the fact that generally it's been
uncorrelated and has different
fundamental drivers that's where you
know potentially becomes a a a different
source of return and and even in some
cases a diversifier so that's a big part
of the education
journey is there a like average
allocation size you're seeing from
clients or uh a range that you're
actually seeing them put out there and
and I always joke that you know when
people ask me I'm like scared to say
anything other than 1 to 5 per. right
like that just seems like okay you say
that you're not crazy um but I've seen
you know many uh large institutions talk
about much higher percentages in some
cases and so like what are you actually
seeing people do yeah I think I mean
obviously it depends on investor
archetype and circumstances and and all
those factors but you know I could say
anecdotally what we're seeing is kind of
the normal range um for those clients
who are allocating whether we're talking
about in in you know financial advisors
on behalf of their clients or large
institutions it tends to be kind of in
that one to 3%
range and then where are we going with
Bitcoin and Wall Street right on one
hand um I think a lot of people who
bought Bitcoin early like the fact that
it was outside the system um Black Rock
other financial institutions creating
ETFs and people buying that uh brings it
a little bit closer into the system but
maybe 10 years from now like what does
Bitcoin on Wall Street look like and
what are these asset managers doing and
and what are maybe the changes to the
market or or even to the
players yeah well I think um you know
that there's some irony in the fact that
with uh the Bitcoin ETF and IIT we took
a Crypton native investment exposure and
we put it in a traditional Finance
rapper and with tokenization we're
taking traditional Finance investment
exposure and we're putting it in a crypt
native rapper and that may seem
contradictory but it it's really not
because across our client base there are
those who are uh not comfortable yet
with digital asset rails but they want
those investment exposures and they want
that in a you know convenient familiar
wrapper and we have clients who are
comfortable and fluent on uh blockchain
infrastructure interacting with digital
assets and they want traditional
investing exposures in that format
because it's digitally native Global
programmable instantly transferable Etc
and that uh dichotomy will persist for a
while but eventually I think we expect
there will be some convergence that
looks like sort of the best of the old
system and the best of this new
technology fused into to a Next
Generation infrastructure set in in
finance and I'm not going to ask you for
a price prediction um but you have been
working on this for a while you your
team is out of Black Rock do you have
advice or maybe lessons learned from
going through that process inside a
large Organization for those that work
at other institutions that may say hey
look I you know we're not doing
something or we're just starting our
process what are some of the things that
you thought were important and and you
look back like hey I'm glad we did this
as part of the research analysis and
then also maybe things that you
personally or people on your team
probably would share with them if they
want to be part of that group to to go
and talk it inside of their
corporation yeah I'd say two things
maybe um one is you have to look for
opportunities to get small wins so you
may have Ambitions of you know what what
you would hope an org might do but you
don't start there you build familiarity
and expertise and trust and credibility
uh with smaller prizes but demonstrated
successes that help people get
comfortable with with the technology and
and in this case you know a new asset
type um but you have to be be careful
because it's not throw everything at the
wall and see what sticks right you want
to have a high win rate where the
projects that you advocate for are
effective and well executed because
there's lots of orgs that became
disillusioned with blockchain and crypto
because they took a try everything
approach and got bogged down in a lot of
bad ideas that went nowhere so be
Discerning and have some early wins and
the second piece is you have to be an
honest
broker you don't work for
crypto you work for your institution so
everything when you think about um you
know strategy and ideas and risks that
that may be taken have to be from the
standpoint of the institution not an
individual who happens to be passionate
about Bitcoin or crypto and wants to see
you know this come forth in the
world and my last question for you is um
through that whole process what have you
been surprised by the amount of inflows
the type of people buying the ETF maybe
something internally like like just what
surprised you uh because I think it
would really I help us identify like the
difference between expectations and what
ended up happening and and so like those
surprises is probably are pretty
informative as
well you know I think the biggest
surprise has just been the breadth of
investor types that um the the ETF has
resonated with and the uh level of
variation in rationals for wanting the
ETF so we talk about you know small
dollar all the way up to ultra ultra
high net worth we talk about wealth
advisory
institutional and Myriad use cases and
rationals for well I used to hold this
way and now I prefer to hold through the
ETF because X or because why or because
the there's just been way more of those
than I think we ever
expected and for those that would like
to work with black rock what is your
suggestion so that you don't get
harassed when you get off stage maybe
you share that so we could save you some
time well I think one of the things
that's um important to understand
working with large traditional Finance
institutions is it's kind of similar to
to what I was saying a moment ago in a
in a different context which is you kind
of have to build your way up to it right
we're not going to be someone's first
large traditional Finance large Asset
Management client right there's sort of
a track record that gets built over time
you look at the partners we've worked
with in this space so it's you know
coinbase or Circle or securitize they
all started in places and built that
credibility long before before we
ultimately you know entered the
Partnerships that we
did Robbie mitnik everyone thank you so
much
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