Amy Richards and Jennifer Baumgardner at Rollins College

Summary

The transcript captures a discussion on feminism and its impact on individuals and society. It addresses the fear associated with identifying as a feminist, especially in progressive environments, and the challenges faced by young women in embracing the term. The conversation delves into the importance of vulnerability and the need to overcome fear to grow. It also touches on the role of feminism in various careers, including law and journalism, and the complexities of issues like rape, emphasizing that it's about power, not sexual urges. The dialogue encourages finding common ground and promoting equality without dictating lifestyle choices.

Takeaways

• 😣 The fear associated with the term 'feminist' can be daunting, even on progressive campuses, causing both men and women to react defensively.
• 👩‍🎓 Young women often grapple with the question of whether to identify as feminists, influenced by societal perceptions and personal beliefs.
• 🗣️ Feminism can be communicated more effectively by finding common ground and cultural signifiers that resonate with different audiences.
• 🌟 Inspiring figures like Neil Gaiman advocate for embracing fear and vulnerability as a means for growth and creativity.
• 📚 The speaker suggests selectively using feminist language in certain groups to feel safe and to connect with others on shared experiences.
• 💼 Careers in feminism can span various fields, including law, human rights, and media, offering opportunities to integrate feminist values into professional life.
• 🏙️ New York, like other cities, can provide a platform for those willing to take risks and engage in new experiences, fostering personal and professional growth.
• 🤝 The willingness to take on any task, regardless of its perceived status, can lead to valuable opportunities and connections in the workplace.
• 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 Feminism supports the choice of women to be stay-at-home moms while also acknowledging the societal vulnerabilities this choice can entail.
• 🚫 The script challenges the stereotype that rape is about uncontrollable sexual urges, emphasizing that it's a tool of power and oppression.
• 🌐 The conversation highlights the importance of understanding rape as a global issue, connected to power dynamics and cultural attitudes towards women.

Q & A

What is the initial reaction of the speaker's colleagues when she identifies as a feminist?

The speaker notes that when she identifies as a feminist, she often sees fear in the faces of her educated colleagues, who consider themselves progressive. Both men and women tend to take a step back, indicating a sense of apprehension or misunderstanding about what being a feminist entails.

How does the speaker suggest young women deal with the fear associated with identifying as feminists?

The speaker advises young women to understand that feminism is about empowerment and equality, and to not be afraid to claim the label. She also suggests finding ways to relate to others by using cultural signifiers and finding common ground, which can help in starting conversations about feminism.

What advice does the speaker give for starting a career in feminism?

The speaker recommends exploring various avenues such as human rights law, which is a significant avenue for feminist activism. She also suggests being open to opportunities, taking risks, and being willing to learn and grow, even if it means feeling vulnerable or making mistakes.

How does the speaker feel about the idea of children's literature that includes scary elements?

The speaker agrees with Neil Gaiman's perspective that it's wrong to think children shouldn't be exposed to fear. She believes that facing fear is a part of growth and that avoiding it can lead to a reluctance to be vulnerable, which is essential for personal development.

What does the speaker suggest as a strategy for discussing feminism in a group where one might not feel safe?

The speaker suggests using a more mainstream approach by finding common interests or cultural signifiers that can make the conversation more relatable. This strategy can help in introducing feminist ideas in a subtle way that might be more acceptable to the group.

What is the speaker's opinion on the portrayal of rape as a result of men not being able to control their sexual urges?

The speaker disagrees with this portrayal and explains that rape is more complicated than just a loss of control. She emphasizes that rape is often used as a tool of oppression and is rooted in power dynamics rather than uncontrollable sexual urges.

How does the speaker propose to make the concept of rape as a tool of oppression more accessible to someone who might not understand it?

The speaker suggests engaging in a deeper conversation to understand the other person's perspective and sharing personal experiences or raising consciousness through education. She also recommends using specific examples or studies to illustrate the point that rape is about power, not uncontrollable urges.

What challenges does the speaker face when communicating feminist perspectives to people who haven't had similar experiences or education?

The speaker finds it challenging to bridge the gap between her worldview, informed by feminist theory, and those who haven't had the opportunity to see things from that perspective. She feels that she sometimes operates from a completely different viewpoint, making communication difficult.

How does the speaker view the role of women in society in relation to the feminist movement?

The speaker sees the feminist movement as a way to expose and challenge societal structures that undervalue women. She believes that feminism advocates for the empowerment and equality of women, allowing them to make choices, including being a stay-at-home mom, without facing vulnerabilities or lack of resources.

What does the speaker think about the societal attitude that women should control themselves to prevent rape?

The speaker is critical of this attitude, arguing that it perpetuates a culture where men are not held accountable for their actions. She believes that the next generation should challenge this notion and that women should not tolerate being held responsible for preventing rape.

Outlines

00:00

😨 Fear and Misconceptions Surrounding Feminism

The speaker, an out feminist, discusses the fear and misconceptions that arise when they identify as a feminist in a progressive environment. They describe how both men and women react with apprehension, often taking a step back as if the speaker might act unpredictably. The speaker empathizes with young women who are still exploring their feminist identities and seeks advice on how to address this fear. They also mention Neil Gaiman's perspective on fear, emphasizing the importance of not sheltering children from fear but rather teaching them to navigate it. The speaker shares personal strategies for integrating feminism into different social contexts and seeks guidance on how to start a career in feminism, given their interest in law, international human rights, and writing.

05:01

🏡 Feminism and the Choice to be a Stay-at-Home Parent

The conversation delves into the compatibility of feminism with the choice to be a stay-at-home parent. The speaker argues that while it is possible to be a stay-at-home mom and a feminist, societal structures often leave stay-at-home moms vulnerable due to lack of income and potential isolation. They discuss the romanticization versus the actual tedium and lack of societal respect for child-rearing. The speaker also addresses a friend's misconception that rape is a result of men's inability to control their sexual urges, explaining that rape is a tool of oppression and a display of power, not an uncontrollable hormonal urge. They emphasize the importance of challenging these views and raising awareness about the complexities of rape and gender dynamics.

10:02

🌐 Rape as a Global Issue and Feminist Perspective

The speaker expands on the global context of rape as a weapon of war and a tool of oppression against women. They discuss the importance of understanding rape beyond just a criminal act, highlighting its use as a means to humiliate and assert power. The conversation touches on the need for deeper understanding and communication, especially with those who may not share the same perspective. The speaker suggests engaging in dialogue to explore the roots of such misconceptions and to share personal experiences that could foster mutual understanding. They also mention a study from South Africa that challenges the notion of rape being driven by hormonal urges, instead pointing to it as a power-driven act. The discussion concludes with a call to action for changing societal attitudes towards rape and the need for a new generation to challenge and redefine these perspectives.

Keywords

💡Feminism

Feminism is a social, political, and cultural movement that advocates for gender equality and challenges the patriarchal structures that have historically oppressed women. In the video, the speaker discusses the fear and misunderstanding that can arise when they identify as a feminist, indicating the ongoing struggle for acceptance and understanding of feminist principles. The conversation also touches on how feminism can intersect with various aspects of life, including career choices and personal beliefs.

💡Fear

Fear, in this context, refers to the apprehension or anxiety that can be evoked when discussing feminism, particularly in environments that may not be fully supportive or understanding. The speaker notes that both men and women sometimes react fearfully to the term 'feminist,' which can create a barrier to open dialogue. This fear is seen as a challenge that needs to be addressed to foster a more inclusive and progressive society.

💡Vulnerability

Vulnerability is the state of being open to injury, damage, or criticism, often associated with being emotionally exposed. The speaker mentions vulnerability in the context of children's literature and how it's important for growth, contrasting it with the societal expectation to avoid fear. This concept is also linked to the experiences of women, particularly stay-at-home moms, who may face vulnerabilities due to societal structures that do not fully support their roles.

💡Stay-at-home mom

A stay-at-home mom is a woman who chooses to forgo employment outside the home to focus on raising her children and managing the household. The video discusses the complexities of this choice within a feminist framework, acknowledging the potential vulnerabilities and societal devaluation of this role while also recognizing it as a valid personal choice that can be compatible with feminist values.

💡Rape

Rape is a violent crime that involves non-consensual sexual activity. In the video, the discussion around rape is used to illustrate the broader themes of power, control, and misogyny. The speaker challenges the simplistic view that rape is solely about uncontrollable sexual urges, instead arguing for a more nuanced understanding that considers rape as a tool of oppression and a manifestation of power dynamics.

💡Oppression

Oppression refers to the unjust treatment or control exerted over a group of people, often based on their identity. The video uses the example of rape as a form of oppression, particularly against women, to highlight how certain acts can be used as tools to exert power and control over others. This concept is integral to understanding the feminist perspective on various forms of violence and discrimination.

💡Human Rights Law

Human Rights Law is a body of legal principles designed to protect individuals from abuse and violations of their fundamental rights. The speaker in the video mentions a career in human rights law with a focus on women and children, indicating how this field can be a powerful avenue for feminist activism. It encompasses issues like reproductive rights, sex workers' rights, and immigration, all of which are critical areas for promoting gender equality.

💡Professional Feminist

A professional feminist is someone who incorporates feminist principles into their professional life, often working in fields that advocate for gender equality. The term is used in the video to describe individuals who may not make their living as feminists in the traditional sense but who are explicit about their feminist values in their careers, such as in law, academia, or media.

💡Serendipity

Serendipity refers to the occurrence of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way. In the video, the speaker encourages embracing serendipity as a way to create opportunities and discover unexpected paths. This concept is presented as a mindset that can lead to personal and professional growth, particularly for those looking to establish a career in fields aligned with feminist values.

💡Misogyny

Misogyny is the hatred, contempt, or prejudice against women or girls. The video discusses how rape is often rooted in misogyny, reflecting broader cultural attitudes that devalue women. The speaker emphasizes the need to challenge these attitudes and to recognize the complexity of issues like rape, which are not merely about sexual urges but are deeply tied to power and control over women.

Highlights

The speaker discusses the fear associated with identifying as a feminist, even among educated and progressive individuals.

Advice is sought for young women navigating their identity as feminists amidst societal fears and misconceptions.

Neil Gaiman's perspective on not sheltering children from fear is shared, suggesting it's essential for growth and understanding vulnerability.

The speaker's personal strategy of selectively using the term 'feminist' in different social contexts is described.

A method of identifying and highlighting feminist aspects in everyday life to make them more relatable is suggested.

Career advice is requested for someone interested in law, international human rights, and writing, with a focus on feminism.

The importance of human rights law as a pathway for feminist activism and its growing relevance is emphasized.

The potential decline of traditional media and the opportunities it presents for new forms of feminist expression are discussed.

Encouragement is given to pursue opportunities with curiosity and a willingness to take risks, even if it means feeling out of place.

The value of being open to various tasks and roles, even menial ones, is highlighted as a way to gain experience and respect.

A discussion on the compatibility of being a stay-at-home mom with feminist values, addressing vulnerabilities and societal structures.

The speaker challenges the stereotype that feminism dictates against certain life choices, such as being a stay-at-home mom.

An account of a conversation about rape, highlighting the complexity and the need to move beyond simplistic explanations.

The speaker advocates for a broader understanding of rape as a tool of oppression and a manifestation of misogyny.

A recommendation for a book that explores the theme of rape during the Holocaust, offering a deeper historical context.

The importance of challenging the cultural narrative that places the onus on women to control men's behavior is discussed.

The speaker calls for a change in the next generation's attitude towards rape and gendered violence, advocating for women's empowerment.

Transcripts

um and as an out feminist um on a not

particularly Progressive campus I think

there's a lot of fear when I say I'm a

feminist when I say that to my very well

educated colleagues many of whom

consider themselves Progressive

politically I see fear in their face a

lot of time men and women and they take

a step back from me like whoa wait a

minute what does that mean what she

going to do next like um so I wonder if

you could talk like if if I am getting

that fearful reaction and it's difficult

for me an adult established out

feminist I can only imagine what it's

like for young women who are trying to

figure out am I a feminist do I want to

be a feminist what does feminism mean do

you have advice for them about dealing

with that that fear both their own fear

and and the fear that they are likely to

evoke if they say the f word out

loud it's this is not directly related

to feminism can everybody hear without

the microphone or should I um I recently

heard Neil Gaiman speak and he wrote

Coraline and the graveyard book and my

favorite book the day I swap my dad for

a goldfish and he talks about what

inspires him his writing and because

everything in there is really scary and

he said because I think it's it's wrong

that we think kids shouldn't be fearful

he's like we to teach them not to be

fearful and the fact is like that then

that makes them grow up and they don't

ever want to be vulnerable and I thought

that was so profound to say um he also

said that when he first started

researching he went into a local

bookstore in London and he had a

four-year-old the time and he said do

you have any like horror books for kids

and they're like he say it was

practically as if I said do porn for

four-year-olds but it felt like that

analogy was like why are you going to

expose a kid to anything that's scary or

fearful and more specific to your

question I know that I personally have

learned to use feminism more selectively

and sometimes when I'm more as a

feminist a certain group and I don't

feel safe I find the things that make me

mainstream that make me relate to the

crowd and sometimes it's just like oh

yeah you went to St Barts I love St you

know sometimes something totally

superficial sometimes it's a little bit

more serious like oh yeah I read that

article in the New York Times about

Shawn pen going down to Haiti and and

making it into something that's feminist

but sort of finding the cultural

signifiers that say that were more

similar than maybe you think and that's

obviously very easy to do more in in

real time and that's harder to convey

like when you're on the internet

communicating with somebody I also have

learned to try to locate the feminism in

other people's lives so when they're

sort of saying why would you do that my

comeback is a subtle way being like

here's why you have to do this and

showing the ways that that feminism is

always already presenting opportunities

in their lives um so I guess what I'm

asking is what advice would you give to

someone like me like where could I start

what should I be looking

into so so that I can you know like

start a career like start on this path

what are you interested in what was your

major what is your major my Major's

political science and I mean I want to

do law with an international human

rights with focus on women and children

um but I mean I would also love to write

for a magazine or intern somewhere

there's a feminist summer in New

York you guys mentioned yeah so no we

found it it's our it's our c yeah yeah

okay that's what I'm saying how would I

like go

about oh you just apply to that so that

that you can check right off your

list and there's four people whove

already gone to it in the room so they

can give you advice but the but the

other things I think it's interesting

like we do call ourselves professional

feminists and we're sort of joking and

not that we make our living as feminist

there are many professions that are

related to that now and and many ways

you can approach having a career and be

very explicit about your feminism in

your career so human rights law I mean

that's that's huge and going forward

that's just going to be even bigger as a

lens for analyzing issues from

Reproductive Rights and Justice to sex

workers rights and Justice to

immigration I mean human rights law is

is a is a major major um Avenue to

feminist activism in the future and I

think some of the most interesting

Innovations are coming out of that that

lens probably magazines I mean mag are

supposedly dying you could get there if

you come in the next couple years to New

York you could probably work at a you

know intern at a magazine and those can

be pretty competitive but they're also

really really interesting and I think

New York is you could say this about any

number of places if you kind of like

jump in and you're inquisitive and

curious you can make a lot of things

happen for yourself if you take

opportunities and are willing to be

willing to risk something and willing to

feel stupid one day because you're not

really sure what you're doing and just

look for Serendipity and not have it all

planned out I think a lot of amazing

things just kind of come your way and I

know that the the biggest things that

have helped us are that we're willing to

do things like we are willing to answer

the phone or like change the pack

machine paper we're not above certain

jobs and I think you have this real

openness to being um that person in

anywhere that somebody can't do without

you end up working with glor st you know

it's just like these things it's it's it

does have to do in a way with like this

hunger and then this openness and this

humbl

yeah I just I'm just curious as to what

why can't you believe in empowering

women and that women should be empowered

and that they should be equal and they

should be able to fulfill roles that men

fulfill and that men should be able to

do the same women but why is it that you

can't have those beliefs but at the same

time choose to do something like be be

stay at home mom or stay at home and

take care of your kids CU I think you

just said that that was on becoming a

feminist well just The Stereotype of

what a

yeah but so which will lead me to

another question then what are the what

are some of the things that you would

see through these feminine contact

lenses that would that that that um that

don't agree with feminism what are some

of those things as a woman to change in

your life if you want it to be a

feminist well you could certainly be a

stay-at-home mom and be a feminist I

mean the when we spoke earlier about how

it's it's deemphasizing the choice that

you make but your ability to make the

choice that's true at the the same time

because of the way the society is

structured women who are stay-at-home

moms tend to have certain

vulnerabilities that they wouldn't that

feminism has been kind of working to up

end so you don't have income usually if

you're a stay- at home mom you're so

you're dependent and so if you're in a

good relationship that's fine but if

you're not you're you're much more

vulnerable to violence or whatever you

know just being with someone annoying

you know you're just you're more

vulnerable to that and um and it's

tedious I don't know who in this room

has children but raising young children

is very tedious and so there's that

element too the repetitive tedium and

it's not very valued we romanticize

child rearing we romanticize mothers but

we don't actually respect them they're

they're pedestalize but I don't think

that they actually are given the

resources that they need to be truly

valued and then there's the isolation

that often happens from being a stay-at

home mom I me the reason there's these

mommy and me groups and all this sort of

stuff that's come you know

these um marketing opportunities to moms

that have grown in the last 20 years is

because moms now realize that they don't

have to be isolated because they've had

so many doors opened up for them so then

when they choose to go back into the

home and they experien that isolation

it's menacing and so they try to

recreate you know some form of community

by having these mommy me groups so I I

think that um I think

feminism at its best exposes all the

ways in which we don't truly value women

in the world but it would never dictate

I think feminists do more to say that

being a stay-at home mom is a valid and

valuable um option than any other group

does personally so so basically if there

was a there was a woman who saw

value there are many women who do and

they absolutely and my question is that

I was talking with somebody close to me

about rape somebody who's educated

somebody who treats me really well and

there was an assumption on his part that

rape happens because a men can't control

their sexual urges

and I was really surprised to hear him

say that because he doesn't act like

that in his everyday life and I tried to

explain that you know rape is a lot more

complicated than that it's used as a

tool of Oppression people use rape in

war to oppress women to like humiliate a

nation humiliate women and you know it's

part of this misogyny that we have as a

culture this attitude towards women and

like it was met with like this like

really just look of like just being

completely confused like how could you

say something like that I thought it was

um an assumption that in our culture

that we just had that's

straightforwardly true and I felt like I

was talking from a worldview that was

completely inaccessible and I couldn't

find the words to make it to make it so

that it was understandable and I just

felt like we were operating from two

completely different perspectives and I

think that in a way we were because I

took Dr McLaren's feminist Theory class

and it opened my eyes to a lot of things

and I'm wearing those feminist contacts

that we're not now talking about and I

see things so differently and I I guess

my question is I have a hard time

communicating with people who haven't

had the opportunity to see things that

way and more specifically especially on

this rape issue if you could maybe say a

few words about how to make that more

accessible because it is we don't think

about rape in our culture that way to of

of like how it oppresses people how it's

not anything to do with sexual

org well I think it's interesting the

way the way I think it's interesting the

way the way you framed it cuz you went

right away to a really Global and um

generalized context that I think is true

but it was a very generalized context

you said it used as a weapon of war and

it is used as a tool of Oppression

against women and while I think that

that's true and that's feminist theory

for sure and I think that's an important

thing that that we've learned you know

in studying the history of rapes Brown

Miller kind of aggregated that

information I also think that it's it

feels very far away

and so this is someone you care about it

sounds like and someone who cares about

you that you're having this conversation

with and out of shock maybe you went to

that direction but I think that you

could peel back more where he's coming

from like so say more about that I mean

that's what I always say that people

should say in interviews as a journalist

say more about that and get them to kind

of go deeper like well where did he get

those

assumptions and what does he mean and

maybe he meant something slightly

different and then again if there's a

true commitment I think to each of you

in Friendship um and mutual respect to

invite him in a in a nice way to things

that you care about that have to do or

things that have helped you raise your

Consciousness some if your Consciousness

is just being a woman and walking down

the street and being aware that there

you know once we hit a certain age

there's this kind of predatory thing

that happens suddenly where you're like

I can't you know look up or make ey

contact with people because it could be

a weirdo you know there's there's that

element that you have that maybe he

doesn't have and you can share that a

little bit and then there's all the

stuff you did to raise your

Consciousness that that could help him

raise his too and there might be

something that he knows that would be

useful for you to hear too I mean I

don't think the way that he framed it

might even not that might not even be

the whole story of what he thinks he

knows about it there might be something

that he can tell you from a man's

perspective that's personal as opposed

to generalizing that would give you

information about rank

to and and if you need to go to

statistics there was a study done in

South Africa and I'll think of the

woman's name she was based in Cape to um

and did this study in South Africa they

tried chemical castration on rapist and

it did not diminish the

percentage of rapes at all and so sort

of proving that it's not a hormonal urge

it's not a hormonal urge that it is a

power urge and there's a book out right

now and it's a great book it's a very

tough book but it's about the rapes

during the Holocaust and in the

concentration camps and it specifically

talks about how everybody was so

humiliated and debased but it was one

way to sort of reclaim your Humanity was

them to rape a woman it was this sense

of like well at least I can have power

over something

because everybody else has power for me

right now and I mean just saying it's

like a very intense book to read because

it's very hard and very harsh um but it

gets to sort of that that point um and I

think that it

is rape is very complicated I don't know

if people saw this there was an article

in the New York Times yesterday about an

11-year-old girl that had been raped in

Texas and I literally two a month and a

half ago somebody emailed me about that

or 6 weeks two weeks ago somebody

emailed me about this case and I was

just emailing her back and she was like

why isn't any talking about this why is

and this was whatever really happened 2

weeks ago the woman emailed me and she

says why is anybody happening she's like

and here they're only covering it

they're not covering it because they're

making it about race and there is all

these ways I think that we distract from

the act of rape we try to be like oh but

it wasn't about that it was and where

were her parents why was she allowed out

of the house you know it immediately

sort of turned back on on girls and

women and I feel like separate of the

issue of rape I still think that what

happens tons in our culture and I see it

with dress codes in high schools I see

it with rape and sort of aggressive

behavior I see it you know with college

admissions there's a sense that men

can't be controlled so women have to

control themselves and I think that that

attitude has just perpetuated for far

too long that women have to take control

of themselves because we can't ask that

of men and I think that that has to sort

of change in the Next Generation that

women have to stop tolerating that

behavior and you see it with little boys

too you see it with you know little

girls are sort of like oh he didn't mean

it he didn't mean it and then that

behavior when you're 15 it's like he

didn't mean to back into that corner he

didn't mean to and you're like what okay

so it's my problem problem um and so

look at the ways separate of rape that

maybe it's practicing because I think it

all contributes to the same attitude

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