ex Goldman Sachs Trader Tells Truth about Trading - Part 1
Summary
TLDRAnton Creole, a former Goldman Sachs trader, shares his journey from trading at 16 to being headhunted by Lehman Brothers and JP Morgan. He discusses his early experiences with IPOs and how his university trading success led to a career on Wall Street. Creole emphasizes the importance of real-money trading experience for aspiring traders, highlighting the value of learning through practice and the challenges of entering the financial industry. He also provides insights into the differences between trading in investment banks and hedge funds versus retail trading.
Takeaways
- 🚀 Anton started trading at 16 with his own money, inspired by documentaries about the financial markets.
- 🎓 He leveraged his early trading experience and success to get recruited by Goldman Sachs while at university.
- 💼 Anton's career path included roles at Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, and JP Morgan before he retired.
- 🌍 After retiring, he traveled the world and participated in the TV program 'Million Dollar Traders'.
- 🚀 He has ambitious plans, including a potential trip to space.
- 💼 Anton's early trading involved flipping IPOs and taking advantage of the T+3 settlement period.
- 📈 He caught the tech boom during his university years, which significantly boosted his trading success.
- 🏦 Goldman Sachs offered him a position after seeing his impressive trading track record and performance.
- 🏙️ Anton's time at Goldman Sachs was marked by a steep learning curve, including handling significant capital and participating in major market events.
- 📊 He emphasizes the importance of hands-on trading experience with real money for aspiring traders.
- 🌐 Volatility is key for traders to make money, and Anton suggests that forex might not be the best for day traders due to low implied volatility in recent years.
Q & A
How did Anton Creole get started in trading?
-Anton Creole started trading at the age of 16 with his own money, inspired by documentaries about the markets during Thatcher's Britain in the mid-1990s.
What was Anton's trading strategy during his early days?
-Anton's early trading strategy involved flipping IPOs, taking advantage of the T+3 settlement period to buy stocks in the morning and sell them at lunchtime if they went up significantly.
How did Anton transition from university trading to a career at Goldman Sachs?
-Anton's trading success and track record at university caught the attention of Goldman Sachs during a presentation event, leading to a telephone interview, an invitation for interviews, and ultimately a job offer.
What was Anton's experience like during the official training program at Goldman Sachs?
-The official training program at Goldman Sachs involved sitting in lectures in New York and being given a seat on the trading floor. Anton learned more about applied finance and the firm's culture during this time.
What were some of the significant market events Anton experienced while at Goldman Sachs?
-Anton experienced the tech boom, the market situation post-September 11th, 2001, the recession periods of 2002, and the market takeoff in 2003 and 2004.
How does Anton suggest aspiring traders stand out when applying to financial institutions?
-Anton suggests that aspiring traders should differentiate themselves by applying real trading methodologies and using real money, as this demonstrates practical experience and commitment.
What advice does Anton give for learning to trade effectively?
-Anton advises that the best way to learn is by doing it in practice with real money, even if it means losing some, as it provides valuable experience and education in trading.
Why is volatility important for traders according to Anton?
-Volatility creates opportunities for traders as it allows for price movements that can be capitalized on. Without volatility, traders struggle to make money.
What is Anton's view on the forex market for traders?
-Anton notes that the forex market, particularly the major G10 currency pairs, has been experiencing low volatility, making it difficult to make significant money through day trading.
What was Anton's initial experience like when he started at Goldman Sachs?
-Anton's initial experience was intense, with him being given a pot of money to trade and quickly being involved in significant market activities such as IPOs and rights issues.
How does Anton describe the difference between trading in investment banks and hedge funds versus retail trading?
-Anton describes the approach to trading in investment banks and hedge funds as very different from retail trading, with professionals having a more structured and institutional approach.
Outlines
🚀 Early Trading Career and Goldman Sachs
Anton Creole began his trading career at the age of 16, inspired by documentaries about the markets during Thatcher's Britain. He opened a trading account and started with IPOs, leveraging the T+3 settlement period to flip stocks without immediate payment. His success in university during the tech boom led to an opportunity at Goldman Sachs. Anton's trading track record and performance caught the attention of traders, leading to a phone interview and subsequent job offer. The paragraph highlights the importance of hands-on trading experience and a strong track record for breaking into the industry.
🎓 Challenges in Securing a Trading Job and Goldman Sachs Experience
The paragraph discusses the difficulties of entering the trading industry, especially given the decline in hiring within financial institutions. Anton suggests that having a demonstrable trading methodology and real-money experience can help candidates stand out. He shares his experience at Goldman Sachs, including the official training program in New York and the practical learning on Wall Street. Anton emphasizes the baptism by fire as a new trader during the tech boom, handling significant responsibilities early in his career, and the valuable lessons learned from various market situations, including the aftermath of September 11th and the market recession in 2002.
💼 Practical Trading Wisdom and Market Volatility
Anton stresses the importance of practical trading experience with real money, even if it results in initial losses, as it serves as a form of education. He advises that showing a track record, even with losses, can be viewed favorably by investment banks and hedge funds. The paragraph also touches on the different approaches to trading in investment banks versus retail trading, and the significance of volatility in creating trading opportunities. Anton notes that while forex is a good market to learn in, due to its low implied volatility, it can be challenging to make significant profits from day trading, suggesting that equities historically offer higher volatility and potential for profit.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Trading
💡Goldman Sachs
💡IPO (Initial Public Offering)
💡Tech Boom
💡Volatility
💡Track Record
💡Lehman Brothers
💡Day Trading
💡Forex (Foreign Exchange)
💡Investment Bank
💡Hedge Fund
Highlights
Anton started trading at 16 with his own money and was later recruited by Goldman Sachs.
He was involved in the IPO market, leveraging the T+3 settlement period to flip stocks without paying for them initially.
Anton's experience during the tech bull market in university allowed him to trade IPOs effectively.
His trading track record and performance caught the attention of Goldman Sachs, leading to a job offer.
Goldman Sachs provided an official training program, but real learning came from practical experience on the trading floor.
Anton emphasizes the importance of having a trading track record to stand out in the competitive financial industry.
He suggests that even losing money in trading can be valuable as it provides practical education for a trading career.
Anton's first week at Goldman Sachs involved managing a $10 million portfolio during the tech boom.
His highlights at Goldman Sachs include IPOs, the market situation after 9/11, and the market recession and recovery in 2002-2004.
Volatility is crucial for traders as it creates opportunities; however, low volatility in forex has made short-term trading difficult.
Anton's career progression included working for Lehman Brothers and JP Morgan before retiring to travel the world.
He participated in the TV program 'Million Dollar Traders' and later formed his own company.
Anton is planning to travel to space next year, indicating his adventurous spirit outside of trading.
The interview suggests that hands-on experience with real money is essential for learning trading, even if it involves initial losses.
Anton's advice for getting a trading job involves demonstrating real-world trading experience and learning from practical mistakes.
He discusses the difference between trading in investment banks and hedge funds versus retail trading, emphasizing the importance of understanding professional approaches.
Anton shares insights on the importance of volatility in different markets, particularly noting the challenges in forex due to low implied volatility.
Transcripts
so yeah we're lucky enough to have Anton
Creole here and he started his career
with trading at about 16 with his own
money and then got recruited into
Goldman Sachs headhunted Lehman Brothers
JP Morgan before retiring traveling the
world then he you may know that he also
did a PPC program million-dollar traders
and proceeded to form his own company
and next year he's trying he's going to
travel to space hopefully so yeah it's
pretty ridiculous career I think we're
gonna learn a lot from this interview
and so if we could just have a warm
welcome and a round of applause for
Anton and okay so let's make a start and
how did you get into the world of
trading and started trading pretty young
as you mentioned in the in the
introduction started when I was 16
basically so grew up in Liverpool and
was watching documentaries on television
about the markets said this was like
1994-95 and there was a lot of
documentaries on TV about Thatcher's
Britain and lots of guys in the in the
city were making lots of money so I was
watching these documentaries thinking I
could do it because I'm clever in these
guys so who heard so literally opened
the trading account with a local stock
broker in the north of England and back
then it was all physical stock so you
couldn't leverage or borrow money which
rate so it was 1 for 1 cash trading in
physical shares and really got into the
IPO situations where you could buy
stocks in the morning where you put in
for the IPO allocation a few weeks
earlier you get the IPO allocation and
without even paying for it and then you
can
the IPO like at lunchtime if it goes up
you know 50 a hundred percent with it
because it was all t plus three
settlement so you used to have to send
the check to the stockbroker and then
it'd be settled in three days so you you
were able to flip IPOs are not actually
pay for them so really got into it that
way okay and you continued trading at
university yeah so at university you
know it was 97 to 2000 so I was pretty
lucky I caught the tech bull market the
tech boom so flipping IPOs and trading
IPOs was actually really straightforward
and university day used to be get up at
6:00 a.m. do an hour's research market
with open at 8:00 put on my positions go
to lectures lunchtime go in the computer
room flip them but most of it was
already done over most of it was done
over the telephone so in my day wasn't
so long ago this was the heaven this was
before broadband so everything was
dial-up and you know at home it used to
cost like a pound a minute to plug your
internet in so and you used to only get
quotes online and when you pick up the
telephone to trade the quotes upon the
brokers would be totally different from
what you see on the screen so it was
pretty slow spreads were really wide so
you had to trade very volatile
situations and then go home in the
evening do a bit of research and do the
same again the next day was it that
experience that got you into Goldman
Sachs pretty much yeah the Goldman Sachs
situation was you know typical situation
where they come around on the milk rant
and do presentations so obviously it
first second year university you go to
all of these and you get to know all the
companies I'm sure here you have the
same even today that the track record
which is just all of your trades that
you've ever done and your performance
and your risk over return the track
record would you know I basically told
one of the traders on the desk at the
press
patience you know the amount of money
that I made in university all the
situations I was trading and they were
really interested so I basically had a
telephone interview the next day and
emailed them my track record so the
telephone interview was with the head of
the desk and then I was invited down the
next week to have interviews and then
offered the job on the same day
basically okay do you think that method
still applies for getting students into
the say that for us that want to follow
in the same sort of path do you think
that's the right way to go about getting
a job getting a trading job now one of
the big problems with with applying to
investment banks hedge funds all
financial institutions really is a lot
of the industries of instructional
decline at the moment so you see
investment banks culling tens of
thousands of people in the Western world
hedge funds pulling back on hiring the
insurance industry pretty much the same
but the amount of applications has gone
up exponentially in the last 10 15 years
everyone seems to have an undergraduate
degree now everyone has a masters so who
you know differentiating yourself is
really really hard in my day the way I
differentiating myself was by doing as
well and I think it's still really a
place if you can show something on your
resume and show something in your
experience where you've actually applied
real trading methodologies and use real
money you stand out in a huge way you
know everybody's got an undergrad with a
2:1 everyone's got a master's when I
used to see CVS right now yeah used to
hire a lot of people in the industry
piles of CVS were dropping my desk from
HR HR is really just a filtering process
they don't know what makes a good trader
but they know that people tick all the
boxes so the Seavey's end up on the desk
but there's thousands of them and it's
literally sometimes just taking them and
going to one
masters couple of good place
institutions that you went to nothing
really interesting about this person bin
I mean it that's sometimes that can be
the process
okay so you're already trading once
you're at goldman sachs how did how did
they develop durability and well you
know publicly you know these companies
that these companies are public
companies so they're always gonna say
that they have official training
programs it's something you know public
companies have to show their
shareholders that they're being
responsible in in training they're the
people that they hire so you do have an
official training program that you go on
in New York which is pretty much sitting
in a lecture theatre like we're here now
for a couple of months but also you're
given a seat on on the trading floor on
Wall Street to be honest what you learn
in those in that situation is really
about applied finance more that you
would learn in a masters but also the
culture of the firm and you get to meet
everybody and all the right people in
the US office so you don't really learn
how to trade or learn about your
profession in practice that's when you
come back on the desk and really that's
where you works what you learn okay so
you spend about four years at Goldman's
and what were your highlights highlights
well walking onto the desk in the first
week where it's all hands to the pump
because it was the tech boom so this
would have been a June 2000 and it was
crazy so they just give you a pot of
money with me it was ten million dollars
to start they say
learn how to trade this guy next to you
is going to teach you what to do press
this button to buy press this button to
sell and because it was the tech boom it
was you know every day walking in with
pretty much very little experience
saying right we're gonna we're going to
give you some responsibilities today you
know after a couple of weeks you'll go
to IPO this company and I'm like okay so
I'm on the other side of the IPO now
that I'm used to ahem and then next day
doing a rights issue raising capital for
companies next day selling stake sink
these four large shareholders and
pension funds so yeah I mean the first
couple of months of real baptism of fire
you know I thought I knew stuff I didn't
know anything until I walked onto that
floor I guess big trading situations I
mean there's so many but ones that you
know really stand out probably during
the tech boom doing all the IPOs 2001
September the 11th a huge situation in
the market the recession we periods of
2002 and then the take off of the market
in oh three oh four okay and we'll have
a little pause now and get some audience
questions any so far yeah I really think
so I mean you've you've really got to do
it in practice with real money
if you get the experience doing that
even if you lose a little bit of money
you've got to see it as paying for the
education of trading with real money so
even if you lose money and say to an
investment bank or a hedge fund this is
my track record I lost a couple of
thousand pounds last year trading they
will look at that favorably so you've
got no downside in doing it so as long
as you show that you've done it and
you've traded for a year and they say
well what lessons have you learned well
I've learned not to do this I've learned
not to do this the market last year was
really tough the fact that you're
actually doing it means you're going to
learn faster so you because what you
know there's a great saying you're not
trading until you've got a position okay
or you don't know anything about a stock
until you've got a position you know so
once you have a position in something
you're forced to learn and monitor your
risk so I think it's it's it's really
really important to do it and you know
then going into the investment banking
site it is very very different so the
approach to trade
is very different in investment banks
and hedge funds the way professionals
did it compared to the retail trader or
the man on the street so you'll learn
how to do that but from the ground up
just having a position will teach you a
lot I would say okay in terms of
volatility
you know volatility creates
opportunities for traders over any given
time horizon and that's what traders
live and die on they need volatility
otherwise you can't make money so the
forex market you know implied volatility
over the last couple of years has been
absolutely crushed we've actually seen
it tick up a little bit recently
especially in dollar yen you know huge
moves forex is is good to learn in but
don't expect to make loads of money if
you're day trading because actually the
important of ala Atilla T of forex at
the moment of the major g10 currency
pairs globally is very very low so it's
very difficult to make money over short
periods of time in equities generally
historically volatility is higher than
in forex
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