Lampard: Management, Chelsea & Golden Generation Myth | Stick to Football EP 16
Summary
TLDRIn this dynamic and insightful discussion, Frank Lampard reflects on his football career, management experiences, and the evolving landscape of football. From the impactful arrival of Jose Mourinho at Chelsea, instilling a winning mentality, to the challenges and strategic shifts at Chelsea under new ownership, Lampard offers a deep dive into the intricacies of football success. He shares personal anecdotes, including advice from his mother to stay humble and rise above challenges. Lampard also discusses the potential and struggles of Mason Mount at Manchester United, emphasizing the importance of adaptation and resilience. This conversation not only highlights Lampard's journey through football as a player and manager but also sheds light on the broader changes in football dynamics and the role of management in nurturing talent.
Takeaways
- 😀 Jose Mourinho had a huge positive impact when he first joined Chelsea - brought confidence, clear direction and a winning mentality
- 😮 Roman Abramovich could be very harsh in his criticisms of the team, but it created a ruthless culture and winning mentality at Chelsea
- 🤔 The 'golden generation' of England players struggled to replicate club form, partly due to rivalry between top teams and lack of progressive tactics
- 😕 Lampard feels he didn't enjoy playing for England as much as he could have due to intense rivalry between top clubs seeping into the squad
- 🧐 Chelsea's success was built on a strong core of leaders in the squad, despite frequent manager changes
- 🤨 The new Chelsea owners need time to develop a winning strategy - top 4 this season would show progress
- 😠 Mourinho's style still has a place in modern football, but his results have dipped at Roma
- 😥 Mason Mount has great talent and determination, but has struggled for form and fitness at Man United
- 🤯 Lampard's incredible goal scoring was built on intelligence, timing runs into the box and an obsession with finishing
- 🙂 The best advice Lampard got was from his mum - stay humble and rise above adversity
Q & A
What was the impact of Jose Mourinho's arrival at Chelsea according to the transcript?
-Jose Mourinho's arrival at Chelsea brought a significant boost in self-confidence to the team. He had a strong presence that influenced the players positively, emphasized winning, and implemented a simple yet effective 4-3-3 setup that was somewhat forward-thinking for the time.
How did Roman Abramovich's management style influence Chelsea's success?
-Roman Abramovich's management style was characterized by high standards and a winning culture. He was known for being direct and occasionally harsh in meetings, demanding success and setting a culture where second place was considered a disaster. This culture, combined with a core group of strong players, contributed significantly to Chelsea's success.
What were the challenges faced by Mason Mount at Manchester United as mentioned in the transcript?
-Mason Mount faced challenges due to injuries, a struggling team environment, and finding his best position within the team's structure. There was also a mention of adapting to a team that performs a lot of counterattacking football, which may not align perfectly with Mount's strengths in high pressing and tight area play.
According to the transcript, what is considered a talent in football beyond natural skill?
-The transcript suggests that hard work and the determination to improve are considered talents in their own right. The ability to consistently work hard, improve, and adapt to the demands of professional football is highlighted as just as important as natural skill.
How did Frank Lampard view the role of young players in Chelsea's strategy under new ownership?
-Frank Lampard recognized that Chelsea's strategy under new ownership, focusing on recruiting young players, would take time to bear fruit. He emphasized the need for patience and possibly a shift in strategy to include experienced players to ensure competitiveness and maintain the club's winning culture.
What was the significance of the win percentages mentioned in relation to the 'golden generation' managers?
-The discussion on win percentages aimed to highlight that success as a manager can vary greatly depending on the context, such as the club's situation and the league's competitiveness. It questioned the quick judgment and dismissal of managers from the 'golden generation' based on win percentages without considering the broader context of their careers.
What advice did Frank Lampard's mother give him that he considers the best?
-Frank Lampard's mother advised him to 'stay humble and keep your feet on the ground' and to 'rise above' difficulties. This advice has been a guiding principle for Lampard, helping him navigate the challenges and pressures of his football career.
How did the England national team's dynamics affect player relationships according to the transcript?
-The transcript suggests that intense club rivalries impacted the dynamics within the England national team, with players finding it challenging to transition from competitors to teammates. This rivalry, particularly during the 'golden generation,' may have affected the team's cohesion and performance.
What was Frank Lampard's approach to improving his goal-scoring ability from midfield?
-Frank Lampard's approach to improving his goal-scoring ability involved practical and repetitive training focused on his positioning, timing of runs, and finishing from areas he was most likely to shoot from, demonstrating the importance of hard work and specific skill development.
What challenges did Mason Mount face in adapting to Manchester United's style of play?
-Mason Mount faced challenges in adapting to Manchester United's style of play, which involves more counterattacking football. This required an adjustment from his usual style, which is more about high pressing and controlling tight spaces in the attacking third.
Outlines
😀 Jose Mourinho's arrival and impact at Chelsea
Paragraph 1 describes Jose Mourinho's arrival at Chelsea in 2004 and the immediate impact he had. Mourinho brought huge self-confidence to the team, buying top players like Petr Cech to strengthen the squad. His mentality was that they were going to win, which inspired the young squad. He set them up in a simple 4-3-3 formation but focused more on mentality and telling them they would win games.
😊 Frank Lampard's personal development under Mourinho
Paragraph 2 discusses Frank Lampard's personal development under Mourinho. Mourinho gave Lampard belief he could win titles and didn't overcoach him tactically. Lampard says Mourinho's simple mental and tactical approaches were great man management for him and helped take his game to the next level.
😔 Tensions between players from rival clubs in the England squad
Paragraph 3 talks about tensions between players from rival clubs like Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal in the England squad during the golden generation. Lampard admits they were probably too intense and should have had more harmony and left club rivalries behind.
🤔 Balancing off-field issues with on-field priorities as a manager
Paragraph 4 covers Lampard's experiences balancing off-field issues as a manager with the priority of coaching and focusing on the team. At Everton, he had to deal with tensions between fans, board and owner but tried to prioritize preparing the team tactically game-to-game.
😕 Owner Roman Abramovich's strong winning mentality and culture at Chelsea
Paragraph 5 discusses owner Roman Abramovich's ruthless winning mentality and culture at Chelsea. If results were poor, he would make harsh changes, which kept players focused on maintaining high standards. Lampard felt this culture was key to their success.
🤨 Abramovich's desire for Chelsea to play more expansively like Barcelona
Paragraph 6 covers Abramovich's desire for Chelsea to play more expansively like Barcelona. Lampard thinks this never really suited Chelsea's powerful, direct style and the fans didn't demand it either.
😣 Lampard expects Chelsea's rebuild under new owners to take time
Paragraph 7 states Lampard believes Chelsea's rebuild and new strategy under the new ownership will take time. Young players need to develop quickly to challenge for titles again after recent struggles.
😠 Resurgence of club rivalries hampered England's golden generation
Paragraph 8 discusses how club rivalries between England's golden generation players from United, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea hampered their international success. Lampard regrets they didn't have more harmony.
😞 England's rigid tactics inhibited the golden generation
Paragraph 9 suggests England's rigid tactics under Sven-Göran Eriksson inhibited the attacking talents of their golden generation. Lampard thinks they may have done better with a more progressive system.
😒 Tough transition for golden generation moving from clubs to England team
Paragraph 10 covers the difficult transition for England's golden generation moving from their club styles of play to the national team setup. Lampard says adapting to different systems and marking rivals was challenging.
😡 Abramovich's harsh criticisms affected Chelsea players
Paragraph 11 recounts some examples of Abramovich directly and harshly criticizing the Chelsea players. Lampard says this showed the ruthless culture but could destabilize them before big games.
🙂 Chelsea's strong core of players enabled managerial changes
Paragraph 12 explains Chelsea's core of strong leaders and players like Lampard, Terry and Drogba enabled the frequent managerial changes under Abramovich. The players maintained high standards.
😐 Lampard believes Chelsea overachieved under Tuchel before the new owner takeover
Paragraph 13 argues Chelsea actually overachieved under Tuchel before the new owner took over, consistently finishing top 3 behind City and Liverpool. Expectations are now unrealistic.
😀 Natural talent versus hard work in Lampard's development
Paragraph 14 has Lampard emphasize hard work and training were just as key as his natural finishing ability in becoming an elite player, aided by his competitive family environment.
👍 Lampard praises qualities of Mason Mount
Paragraph 15 sees Lampard highly praise Mason Mount's attributes like technical quality, intelligence and determination which will help him succeed despite a tough start at Manchester United.
😊 Lampard's mother advised him to stay humble and rise above negativity
Paragraph 16 concludes with Lampard saying his mother's advice to stay humble and not get affected by negativity or criticism was the best he received.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Management
💡Mentality
💡Environment
💡Owners
💡Results
💡Strategy
💡Transition
💡Standards
💡Adaptability
💡Improvement
Highlights
Jose Mourinho brought huge self-confidence when he joined Chelsea. The players took it in and it helped us believe we would win.
Abramovich would sometimes have harsh meetings with the players, saying we needed to win or many would be gone. It created a winning mentality.
The England 'golden generation' had world class players but lacked togetherness. The club rivalries crept into the national team camp.
At Chelsea the consistent success came from having a core group of top players, despite manager changes.
It will take time for the new Chelsea owners to develop a winning strategy. They can't forget Chelsea has been winning for 20 years.
There is still a place for Mourinho's pragmatic style, but he has to adapt too. His win percentage at Roma was his lowest ever.
At West Ham the nepotism claims were tough but made me tougher. I wanted to prove people wrong, it drove me to work hard.
To be an elite player it's a mix of natural talent and obsessive hard work. I was hungry to improve and focused on the details.
As England players we took responsibility for underperforming. We were too rigid tactically at big tournaments.
Mason Mount has high level attributes but may have suffered from Man United's bad mentality. He needs the right structure.
My best advice is to stay humble and keep your feet on the ground, no matter what.
I can't help the laughing then going serious in press conferences. My daughter sent me a meme about it!
I don't see myself managing into my 60s. I'll give it another 4-5 years then maybe get out.
At Everton there was tension with the board and fans. It was challenging towards the end.
With England's golden generation there were big egos and club rivalries. It didn't feel like we enjoyed tournaments.
Transcripts
Roman came and had a few harsh meetings
with us in those few years when he was
more present and this was translated
which makes it even harsher you know the
Russian
translated like you're waiting for the
translation go on it's not going to be
good you know what I mean I'm literally
sat next to Ash in the dressing room for
England for 6 S8 years Ash comes up to
me screaming in my face after they score
the first goal you were talking about
the timing into the box and I was like
wow this is incredible especially for me
as a midfielder probably should have
followed you more than him I got sent a
lot when I think of management I only
think of myself being successful I don't
even think of myself losing a game and
I'll do some Any Given Sunday speeches
you said that you want to get back into
the game haven't you in terms of the
last 12 months but that listen to
Frankie
yeah absolutely love them toffee uh
popcorn a great love of that toffee
popcorn
honestly they the raspberry ones no who
who got the chocol is there a bit of
raspberry are they the raspberry are
they I'm going to have one now confirmed
raspberry I've been confirmed it's been
confirmed that they are raspberry Min
rolls have you still got the PB prank by
the way yeah I hav yeah it's so
beautiful that Pub got a little Old Pub
you on the building don't you nice one
let me
honestly of
P what's that what's the P go to the pub
it's Pub in London it's down a little
Street like with georgean houses it's
it's a beautiful little Pub on the
corner Shar Sharon is caring chel got
Chelsea Pig the Chelsea Pig you just
bought it's called it's called the pigs
here and I used to go in there a little
bit and it came up my dad to be fair DD
DD
yeah we need more te thank you
yeah
yeah are you sponsored by him Stone
Island no but I just I just something
it's a long I just like it it's just
yeah but it's a nice but why why if pet
wears it he's if pet wears it is's co I
wear at my football Lan Jill you know
what I mean you do look like my 15y old
nephew right now chill been very
aggressive today I take it off and put
my t-shirt on I'm losing my confidence
how often does this
manth want me to change it I change you
can change it that would be amazing that
would be amazing what's that change what
be eternally grateful what
for Oh's po neck it wasn't that great
anyway I was going to message you cuz
you know after you were saying about my
car right you're G wag know so I broke
down on Christmas Day for four hours no
in the car and I was going to actually
text you where were you driving now for
4 hours I was going up to no I was on
the side of the motorway for 4 hours I
was going up to Sunland to a dinner
there must have been a dinner on an
award my family no it was Christmas Day
Christmas day why you just leave your
car and get an Uber or something get
away all the
way on the side of the sit literally on
a half shoulder for 4 hours you can't
just leave your car on a BL mot with are
you allow are you not allowed to leave
your car on the mot on Christmas day no
I don't think so but this Highway M the
been gone when you got back turned up
like to help us and then they were like
H is any of you like ill in the car or
anything I was like no oh the thought
Christmas day they're going to help us
when my daughter plays football would
you mind just signing this thing signed
it and then pissed off never shed those
no just left us right he walks in
doesn't have to show lanyard just walks
in Jamie car Liverpool his anfield right
makes sense right but they know who I am
as well they know I'm not going to turn
up at Liverpool like without a so
literally can we see can we see your
pass please you not ask for his pass
yeah but girl you can't his pass you ask
my pass G you can't give it the big one
I'm not give it the big one you did
because like you didn't show him your
pass he job he have to show his pass but
I do handeld Jamie carer quity yeah but
you're man united they could do that
just to wind you up I thought it worked
as well by LS of things is that your
first one is that your second second one
I've gone now I mean I can feel I'm in
yeah so nice you feel bad this time for
the
day not should we get in I like the tank
top thanks girl you still got neck on no
this is the roll but I don't need the M
could fit on that M the mic couldn't fit
on it so I wor something that can you
know can accommodate the microphone
which is still amazing it just
happens looks good thank you must be
midnight now is it
right right right right right
welcome to stick to football brought to
you by Sky Bet and joining us this week
is the Chelsea and England Legend Frank
Lampard what have you been doing for the
last few months obviously you were at
Chelsea at the end of last season but
what have you been doing since then uh
enjoying a bit of time out actually uh
trying to be a good dad uh good how's
that working out for yeah yeah I think
it's kind of right it's kind of right I
suppose it's one of the it's one of the
the pitfalls of management obviously is
when you're out the game because you
want to work but you got to appreciate I
certainly learn appreciation over the
last few years been managing for what
four or five years now um the year at
Everton I was up close to here actually
away from the family a lot probably
didn't realize until I came home what i'
missed cuz my boy was like a year of age
at that point my daughters was three or
four now they're five and two and um
spending time with him has been a been a
great thing for me because even when
you're managing you're present but
you're not so many times do you know
what I mean so I've really appreciated
that few other bits outside that I've
always done so of when you're unemployed
as such like fulltime employment
everyone thinks you're available every
day so like do you want to go for lunch
do you want to do this and I just like
being at home a lot if I'm honest so um
yeah just being happy out the game and
uh watching a lot of football doing all
those things has it changed your
perspective on anything in terms of
whether you want to go back into
management or whether you think no
actually now I'd like to do something
different no it hasn't I enjoy it unless
you know if you ask me in the heat of a
moment in management I think he probably
the biggest highs and lows you can have
in the game especially from comparing it
to a player because I think you take so
much more responsibility so when you're
working sometimes you have moments where
you're so high back in good result or
you're low because you you got problems
you got issues you're trying to get
results whatever it is but I think when
you come out of it I think um probably
the best thing I think about experience
for me as a manager is not you know you
get better tactically you might find
different ways you want to play but I
think it's learning as a manager to deal
with those parts of the game learning to
not be I think Young managers can be
really intense on yourself every result
that goes the wrong way you're searching
yourself you can end up putting a lot
more pressure on yourself so I think
there's any balance I found it's like I
want to work again and what what little
bits can I do better maybe for myself to
to handle the the obvious roller coaster
that it can sometimes be I I mean I had
that to be fair for a brief time and I
was well out of my depth and didn't
particularly want to do the job I was
struggling towards the end have you had
moments like that in the last sort of 12
months where you've sort of had them
difficult challenges obviously Chelsea
at end of the season and EV where you've
looked in the mirror in the morning you
thought you're com on top a little bit I
think Evan was it felt a bit like that
in the end and it was probably searching
for results it's always your job
coaching trying to pick the right team
whatever keep the squad happy but
Everton in the end there were a lot of
issues in and around it you try not to
get to way laid by them because you
can't affect it too much really but we
all know that there was an issue with
the fans and the board at the time and
all those I was on the phone a lot in
the evening trying to connect with owner
chairman everyone El CEO you know and
then go in and do the day job the next
day so I think at that time I definitely
found an intense end period I didn't
find Chelsea as difficult personally
because I knew it was finite it was
going to be six seven weeks um I learned
very quickly in my head what the issues
were there um and they were not my
issues to solve long term I don't want
to sound like I palmed them off it's
just you want results but at the same
time if you go into a place where you go
there's a lot of problems here can I
turn it around in nine games when
motivation has just gone down uh and I
actually came to peace with that a
little bit I wanted to win games cuz
it's my own reputation at the same time
but at the same time I wasn't so bad
there probably at the end of Everton
would be the biggest spell where and you
know what it's it's a challenge sounds a
bit corny makes you a better person
better Coach probably after because you
maybe learn next time you know what all
those phone calls I had maybe I didn't
need to get so involved in them you have
to be respectful to speak to your owner
and stuff those phone calls were they
with the ownership and the problems that
they're having related to what's
happening now or were they related to
the sort of if you like the fact that
they couldn't come to the games and the
sort of disagreement with the fans what
you know with the ffp things that are
going on that that was all L happening
when you were there what what what were
those phone calls I think some of a bit
of everything some of it definitely was
about the uh the fans and and and the
board and I and I felt for the board
it's not easy to speak about when you're
in it you have to put on a a media face
as a coach and sometimes you don't want
to go against the fans you don't against
sh I'm bold go against your own bold
that can be fatal for your job but at
the same time I had I had a lot of
feeling for people like the chairman has
obviously passed away Bill Kite was a
great support to me through the time
really opinionated Lov the club was Mr
everon and had a lot of um you end up
very sensitive to the fact that this man
can't come to games you know you can
have opinion on all the details but this
man's given his life to this club um
Denise my CEO was incredible was trying
to really put in a football plan but at
the same time we got to the point
probably we're struggling for results of
it comeing January after the World Cup
and the break in the season um and one
of the problems I found at Everton was
that uh we were trying to work a
football plan Kevin fwell came in
sportting director Denise who was like
football plan recruitment what we
working towards
um so we're working towards it the
minute January came in it was like it
was like the wild west and agents and
what everyone and what's the what's the
you know what's it going to be who can
we bring in we were struggling to be
able to to spend money anyway because of
the ffp situation I desperately wanted
to bring in some players and in end even
after I left think it was another week
Shan came in at the back end couldn't
really make any moves anyway Anthony
Gordon left the club but there so there
was a lot of tension at the club through
that and I think it' been a buildup you
night worldcare as well but it would
have been a buildup over a few years I
felt it from the minute I came in until
the minute I left it was almost like
we're in a bit of a crisis but there's
going to be another crisis uh that was
quite difficult I think we managed it
when we stayed up that year quite a lot
of the thing which let build confidence
and feeling and we managed to get over
the line with that um but in the second
season towards the end it was
challenging where was micher in all this
Frank so you mentioned obviously Denise
and you mentioned Bill C but misher is
the ultimate owner where was he in all
that more remote in terms of not being
present which which is fine I worked
with r Abramovic for years he wasn't
present we won a lot of things he
doesn't have to be present so it be more
on the phone having conversations but I
think the joined up nature of the club
which would should have been I think a
reason for was it joined up though no
yeah it what it wasn't and you could
then see why in The Last 5 Years they
spent a lot of money in Recruitment and
it hadn't been joined up and that came
to roost a bit now and we're seeing
obviously the aftermath of that now I
think being in the city and and sort of
having you know a few little links to to
Everton there was there was definitely
that divide on the board and it's
probably almost why the board sort of
finish it was Mair was on one side and
Bill kenri Denise B backs Andale sort of
on the other and I always had the
feeling I don't know if if you felt the
same when um Denise and and Bill kenr
and other people couldn't go the game
and people were asking them to resign
why you still at the club why have you
not resigned was the feeling
that almost they needed to be there to
almost somehow try and keep in check
maid because he could when you're
talking about the wild west and agents
coming around they was that that feeling
of yours that they would almost almost
stay in to actually if we leave into his
own devices things could actually get
worse I think there would have been a
bit of that in terms of there was
definitely a different strategy from the
owner to what the Chairman's idea was
about it and to what Denise's was and I
think some of it would have been their
own
um I don't know determination to see it
through I think the chairman was a tough
man was a strong man do you know what I
mean as I said he was very caring with
me and I went to his memorial recently
and the amount of people that spoke for
him spoke and I liked it in terms of how
they was speaking because what I have
sense from him you know it can challenge
you a lot Denise was working everything
to get this Stadium over the line which
I think is going to change the club
going forward hopefully and working with
us to try and get so I think they they
were working their own way as you say in
in a direction on the ground much more
Denise particularly for me at the
training ground always trying to work
forward always trying to problems and
we've got a few players over the line um
in the previous window which absolutely
Denise scraping and trying to do
everything communicating with the
Premier League because we were in you
know on a tight line so I think they
were just probably doing their job and
and I understand why it would have hurt
them deep down being evertonians that
they couldn't go to games had mistakes
been made from different people of
course they had been made but I think
there was a gen genuine good nature to
them in wanting to try and keep the club
in the league try and keep moving
forward how was it for you then because
you know the ffp thing has just sort of
dropped EV of being docked 10 points
they've been or you know know charged
again I mean what was it like for you in
terms of okay you're looking for players
and when you talk about Denise was
talking to the Premier League I mean had
any stated did the Premier League say
you can't buy this player or you've only
got so much to spend I mean how how how
did it work yeah there were a lot of
details to that and obviously when
Richardson left the club we all knew it
was coming um because it had because it
had to happen so he left the club it
gave us a little bit of rle room to try
and bring in some players there because
my view on it at the back end of the
season was that we'd stayed up but the
squad needed a lot of work and it wasn't
just the idea of bringing players in it
was the idea of getting players to move
on now some of those players were
probably you know an age in their career
would signed long contracts we're not
going to go anywhere practical nature of
any football club is sometimes you're
then a little bit hamstrung by that as I
say at that point intentions were great
of trying to bring players in but the
reality was I think we were never really
going to do it the evid supporters are
obviously uh you know fighting for the
club in terms of the 10-point deduction
and sort of attack in the Premier League
if you like but you know those
discussions where with the am couble
with the Premier League was it almost a
feeling that you were working together
or they were sort of stopping you doing
things going forward I I was never
really privy to them so I would only get
you know feedback off the back of it so
I think there was a I think they were
amical to a point but they were they
were clear lines of what you could do at
that stage is it like frustrating as a
manager because you've got all this
stuff going on and really you just want
to manage and coach your team don't you
like did you do a lot of on thefield
coaching or did you feel like that's
what you wanted to do but it seems so
much going on for managers that they
don't get to just focus on the team
sometimes yeah well you got to be wary
of that because there's not much you
can't do and in terms of recruitment now
the modern manager is not the old school
manager who's traveling up and down the
country watching players to bring in you
have to leave that pass that over to
Recruitment and the idea what the club
you have those conversations and you go
right what is my job so what I don't
want to sound here now like I'm making a
big smoke screen of what that back per
back end period was like it was like
that my main job was always to coach the
team and and I am coach when I work I
want to be on the team with them setting
up game plan who we got next week what's
that going to look like and when you're
go for a tough time you know sometimes
you go next game's Brighton then it's
Man City then it's Sansa and you how are
we going to work around that so
absolutely all my you know the big part
of my priority and focus at that point
was coaching the team as it always is
and then you know dealing with all those
other bits something you've got to try
and be able to handle I mean I I can
hand it I don't I definitely don't want
to sound like a baby or making excuses
here because the real reason you leave
the job is because you don't get results
in that period do you know what I mean
regardless of the two or three hours you
might have on the phone at night you've
got to find a way to prioritize coaching
if that's what you want to do no with um
the fact that you're born into the game
you know it's all you've known since you
growing up where where's the enjoyment
in in the management for you where what
where did you get that something Frank
cuz like listening to this now it sounds
it sounds like everything apart from
actually getting enjoyment and doing
something that you you love which I know
you do love but where's the enjoyment
well did you get any even with the wins
could you could you even reflect and be
happy for any time yeah yeah I could be
definitely and if I look back through my
career um I've had in managing managing
career I've had big wins that have
probably given me more fulfillment than
any of my planing days unfortunately
enough you know I won stuff with my plan
days whether it was because of drugar or
me or John Terry I was in a great Squad
you know great setup so but when you are
the manager the feel of responsibility
of I know getting Derby to the playoff
final you beat Lees who are probably a
better team that you feel a big sense of
and and keeping everan up in in in the
league I mean that's an enjoyment like
that night because of living in the city
and starting to buy into it and the
everon were so desperate to stay up
being a bit of a head figure as such in
that moment is massive enjoyment and
then you do get the day-to-day working
with young players and you go to Chelsea
you feel linked and proud of arice James
Mason M or Tammy Abraham players that go
on to do good things you don't take the
credit for it but you enjoy the dayto
day did I give some information did I
give them an opportunity so there were
loads of things I definitely don't want
to sound like we just asked me about
that end period at Everton focus on that
and the other parts loads of other parts
of my management people will always want
to can always make a big de you left
that club that was a bad ending but at
the same time I can look at the jobs
I've had and G at Derby yeah we we had a
good run we actually got the club
together we got to a playoff on okay we
didn't make it for that Chelsea you and
we got to the champions league and we
and we brought in some players saying we
because of the staff and everyone that
works together so there are there are
loads of good moments and you you do
have to get a balance to it you can't
think I'm going to go and win everything
yeah every manager got relative success
success you know pep wins most years
brilliant manager he's got fantastic
players the rest of us are looking for
relative success whatever that is Roy
where are you on that I mean you
obviously have said obviously Frank just
said he wants to get back into the game
and you said that you want to get back
into the game haven't you in terms of
the last 12 months but that listen to
Franklin I'm sorry about this I'm sorry
about this I'm going to bring it you
just ended managerial
career it no do you want to get back in
are you serious get back it's got to be
again I go back to it not not that
you're going to get the Real Madrid job
but it's got to be the right challenge
it's got to be the right Club it's got
to be the right contract so can you
bring your staff and I I disc discuss
this all the time I have had
opportunities but sometimes you get
offered a contract I go back to do I
look at it if I do get offered stuff a
bit of selfworth you know is the deal
right for you whatever I'd like to go
back in but I'm not desperate when I
sign any contract for anybody but but
even your experience different all that
our experiences that will definitely
will make you a better manager yeah as
you said the off the field stuff dealing
with board members that is that is tough
that is that can sap your energy when
you and maybe some clubs there's a
crisis there's always a crisis in there
and maybe ever will be one of them for
the next few years you know fighting
relegation dealing with boards and at a
club unless you had a really well-run
Club they are those challenges off the
pit if it was just about going in
working with a team it'd be great is one
of the things why you want to go back
into management is that people talk
about the day to day and you know gives
you something to do I mean for me I
always think about you with the island
job you know whether that would work for
you obviously that wouldn't be dayto day
but would that be something something
International Football I enjoyed it when
I was a coach je for what I like the
Dynamics of it again where you're not in
every day and it's not about bringing
players in and I suppose dealing with
the board every week or whatever it
might be and the academy yeah that does
appeal I did enjoy the Dynamics when I
was coaching with Martin with the Irish
team yeah but then we had a little bit
of success and you look back when you've
had a little bit of success then it's
brilliant but obviously there's
disappointment so yeah that would be
that could be an option j o
nice one Jame we got out of him we got
there in the end see the headline he's
Keen he's ke nice one Jill love Jill
Scott man go on g what you the last
question on Everton you mentioned I
think earlier on about masiri strategy
and he said that obviously the what
Denise and Bill Kem with him was trying
to defend what was going on but what is
what is the strategy of misseri at the
club because a lot of Everton fans
probably wouldn't know yeah I'm not
exactly sure about that um I'm not
saying that too Loosely um because I
came into it probably I don't know four
or five years it' been there before I
got in there but you know you could see
that it had been uh four managers U
Marco Silva Roberto Martinez Carlo
angelotti ANZ big Sam sorry so really
you know higher level managers when you
go through that Champions League winners
Etc and I came in and you could see with
the squad in terms of the squad there
wasn't a and this happened at football
clubs you new managers come in and want
to go a different way so but if you can
have a bit of a strategy of what you
want to be I wasn't sure what it was cuz
we were having conversations about Frank
what do you want how do you want to
coach the team now I've got an idea you
go okay I want to do that I go but we're
going to have to recruit a bit for that
because I can't make you know this team
exactly what I want it to be now which
is probably what at the end of my time
and when we stayed up we went to a back
five and we were really compact we
engaged the fans we got up the pitch
Anthony Gordon was flying at that time
and we got some Pace in the team um and
we fought our way out of trouble to it
and it was great for me like the idea of
evid an experience when you're in a
tough moment you get you become a better
Coach but in terms of what the club idea
was at that point no and and again I
don't want to sound like this is making
a real negative on merer or the big
decision makers over those years because
I'm sure they did it because they all
Everton to make it into a fantastic club
that was success who who wouldn't do
that it'd be crazy not to it's just
maybe when you were I I worked at Man
City for a year at the back end of my
career and I went into a a structure I
was a players you don't know everything
but you look at and go places going to
go places a vision and they're going to
go away and then Pep Guardiola Comes A
year later or whatever but when you lose
a couple of games it's not like oh what
we going to do now sack that change that
it was almost like it's going to go and
it's going to go and obviously at
Everton it hadn't it hadn't had that for
whatever reason but you were smart sorry
you were smart when you went in first
Frank obviously hadd Listen to I watch
some of the first few games and you no
doubt you were trying to play a kind of
an open game and that's what you used to
in your career but depending at least
dep pending draft for you when you first
wi in going listen Lads we need to we
need to shut up shop here we need to
play a certain way and that's management
isn't it cuz people talk about what's
your philosophy what's your plan we all
have great plans until you walk in the
door and then you see a SE group of
players you go listen we're short here
there's lack of confidence everything
have to stay up that is the priority so
it's about results so that's to me
that's what management is about so yeah
I I found as well the easier part of
that is for me was that when I went in
it was written all over the faces of the
players so I tried to to go in and go
right we're going to be a bit not
expansive is the wrong word but you know
we're going to play a bit the idea we be
for in the cup in the first game then we
lost a couple of games on the road then
we beat Le well at home and we were
pressing and it was like 433 should 442
but we were doing everything we wanted
to do and then we went and got spanked
in a few games away from home and I
could see that the players it wasn't a
big ass to say you know what Lads we're
going to protect here now and we're
going to have five at the back and then
we did get some results with it and we
had the goodison thing because in that
time for me we we were beating Man
United at goodon we beat Chelsea at
goodison and and the crowd were rallying
behind us and it was giving the players
you know a massive lease of life so it
was uh we we got over the line it was a
really interesting coaching situation
for me learn learned a lot on that front
and and I've got to say the Elation of
St up was definitely one of the was
coaching about just talking Lads talk
let's sit go along but you know but and
ever it worked at the time and it kind
of sometimes that type of play does suit
everon doesn't I think it does Sheamus
colan a good character for Sheamus
Sheamus is amazing good guy and the
first I sat with him so now messaged him
the other day CU he made his was it 15
years ago that was incredible that and
what a player as well by the way I
remember him playing against him and I
didn't really appreciate I want to work
with him because at that point he's 33
but it wasn't just what he did on the
pitch what he did off his pitch his
standards his his
humility um everything about team
player you know family man but there's
no there's not a bit of him that's not
genuine and he and he wore it on his
face when we were struggling it was like
I really care about this you want to say
to the other players but it'd speak in
front of the players on his own maybe we
spoke about you once I think my Monday
Night Football and You' had a dig you'd
had a dig at the Players so they're not
good enough enough or whatever and he
used you as a reference point and he
went I was watching Monday Night
Football last night and did you watch it
to all the players all the probably 90%
put it went Jamie carer said this it
wasn't that necess a dig at you he
probably use it in a smart way it was
basically don't accept that you know
what I mean as players and as managers
we we have to take some stick you know
what I mean but the only way to do it is
to react to it and it was it was a bit
of a turning point for us can't remember
the exact moment of it but but he was
always the man to do
thats last game of the season I never
thought you'd be more of it than ever
did that's most premier league dressing
rooms on a Tuesday morning that to be
honest with you see what he said I'm
just listening I'm think to myself I
can't I'm still trying to find a joy I
don't know if yeah because when I when I
think of management I only think of
myself being successful I don't even
think of myself losing a game honestly I
don't think someone thinking I watch
people I watch some things and I think
wow I wish yeah if I went in there and
I'll do some Any Given Sunday speeches
and I'll get the lads going and we'll
play great stuff but then I've not heard
anybody tell me about the joy I I I had
this conversation you might remember
this about 10 years ago the first time I
ever did pundy we worked together on ITV
I think in the Euros 2012 and gett
Southgate was on the panel and Roberto
Martinez and uh so three managers or had
a go management I
was two really good managers yeah sure
and when we were going to the bar after
the show I think Gordon Sten was there
as well yes and everyone was talking
about sort of the problems and this and
I and I said to I said to you why' you
do it and you said I remember you saying
to me he said being a man is like a
night out you know you have a night out
sat you get up Sunday morning you go
never again and then you get to Friday
you put your gear on I mean and that's
the type of thing just like I I don't
see that much yeah do you not miss being
on the grass though like no you know
what I hate that
say it doesn't it doesn't mean what you
think
just back from
Thailand no but I do it I don't know
just I want to go into cult understand
it I don't miss I don't people always
say oh miss the dress room I don't but
not even just kicking a ball
about no I loved it but it was just like
that oh no was pund not enough for you
Frank um I would say it's not enough I
think that's disrespectful to it cuz I
enjoyed it and um allowed you to have a
a nicer lifestyle you know it's like
know you will work hard on the table in
a different ways but like it it's from
being a player obviously um so no I
enjoyed I enjoyed the the preparation I
wanted to be as well prepped as I could
I wanted to do as good job as I could do
but you were good at it as well I
thought you know I thought I was okay
but you always want to be better at it
and what you do and look around and see
other people doing it really well and
you kind of want to be as good as you
can but so what no I wouldn't say it
wasn't no I just enjoyed the period of
doing it and you know it actually gave
me an eye towards the analysis thing
which you going have to do when you're a
manager and it's done so well now it's
why I appreciate good analysis and I
appreciate where I can see prep's been
done and someone's watched the game
rather than just go no they pressed
higher they didn't you know like the
generic stuff I I saw you the other day
the Manu game you talked about the
Midfield boy and you were talking about
two10 I have a side of You cover the
space weight and then you know where to
go and for me if I'm sitting that's what
I want to hear I want to hear Roy can
show me and tell me exactly why cuz he
did it for 20 years
it was but I appreciate but you you guys
you've done it on Monday Night Football
and made it an amazing show right when
he talks about movement you know
whatever it might be like those things I
think are good to this is what I would
want to be that version of that but then
when I got into management the sort of
drug to be the flip of the negative side
of it is can you get Improvement and and
the more you go into the whole that
because I want to be a coach and I want
to coach the players I want to give them
ideas I want to show them what they
could do to be better you do buy inct
yourself I watch games with a completely
different eye than what I did five years
ago or thought was a player so you
actually want to get Improvement you
want to improve players and then you you
know like I said about the younger
players I have been able to be part of
the the journey or the project project
but you know what I mean you you do take
a sense of pride in that and enjoy that
so there there are lots of things to say
you're R about changes s with staff do
you constantly not that you blame the
staff for you know when you've had a bad
result but you look back in think maybe
I'll tweak that with more experience or
whatever it might be know or were you
really comfortable with all everyone
around you yeah yeah I was I was i i a
really good group and we we we got on
very well I know it's not about that
it's not about a ladge trip but we were
up help it does help if you get on so
the staff office like as much as
sometimes EV again could have been
challenging towards the end we had we
had a real laugh in the office about a
lot of things I won't repeat the
stuff work again but you would we had we
had a good laugh and people you know um
Joe was now managing at milw uh Chris
Jones I worked with since I've started
managing Paul Clement as well who's
obviously worked with Carlo and all his
clubs and managed himself we had we had
Ashley car so we had a lot of experience
in the room I certainly wouldn't put it
down to any of my staff or you no I
wouldn't say you're putting it down to
them but if you were back another job
would you say listen if one of them is
tied up I lead him to it and I'll just
well one has since gone on to be
managing M so yeah I think you you do
have to think like that and sometimes
those challenges are good for you as
well you always making you think what
you're good at and what maybe you need
someone else that's better than you
analis whatever it might be set pieces I
look at you and sort of Stevie I'm
probably way at the minute you sort of
you're looking at Wayne Rooney at
Bingham and getting sck off the fans uh
you're talking about sort of ups and
downs of the ob stevies in in in Saudi
now and it do you think you you you
almost want to be a coach you're a coach
and you're a manager now that that's you
because when when I worked with say
Brendon Rogers or Rafa
Benitez they're going to be a coach or a
manager till the 60 OD it's just that's
that's their thing do you not sort of
Envision in the future you being maybe
an ambassador somewhere or maybe working
for you aan and doing a TV gig are you
in the the management stuff or sort of
think I'm going to to give this another
sort of four to five years and then try
and get out or do you see this as going
into your sort of 60s I don't go be I
don't go beyond the four or five years I
think you probably have to have that
because I think if you don't you could
probably easy get way laid off of it
because there's a lot of challenges now
I'm sitting waiting for an opportunity
you might get you might go for a job and
you don't get it or you might just be
waiting around and so I think then you
could go down different routes I think
I'm well I know exactly where I'm at
that I want to do it because I do enjoy
doing and I actually it's probably a
deep down desire to get better at it and
do the best I can at it because I've
I've always been like that a bit as a
player I haven't lost that and as much
as you try not to listen to outside
noise there will always be outside noise
Me Stevie why particularly because of
probably our playing careers I think he
of good interest of people have probably
watched you have a pretty good playing
career for 20 years and then go I'm not
going to just give you an easy ride into
management though and they kind of
presume that you just went I'm going to
finish now I'm going to be a manager and
here you work by hard I think there is a
level of dist I want to talk about that
do you think there is a level of
disrespect to this sort of golden
generation of managers and it's almost
been the last few weeks because of
what's happened with way in particular
there's an element of ridicule which is
unfair yeah I I think there's definitely
that's definitely a point because the
golden Generations thing was a nonsense
anyway because no one proclaimed us a
golden generation there's some good
players in that Squad besided Italy and
France and zidan and they had p and that
you know like International football is
always a challenge to win and that's an
old story now but of course it's nice to
rehash the story and go on result but
every manager like it doesn't matter
whether you're I don't I don't want to
cry too much here because every manager
gets a tough run every manager will be
top of the tree after a few wins and in
threat of getting a sack within a few
whether you're part of the golden
generation just an English manager or a
foreign manager but I would say probably
in the last recent period has not really
been a a young British manager that's
come and been a bit of a standard Bearer
for it so there's always this kind of
he's another one that's not really as
talented as because to be fair to
foreign managers starting with probably
arson Vena Jose Mourinho PEP guarda
joggen Club they have made a massive
difference to the Tactical nature of the
game in 20 years not not an English
manager in that list but at the same
time now there are a lot of English
coaches and I think it is a stick to
beat you with sometimes the golden
generation thing it's hard that's that's
another headline for them out poor old
us do you know what I mean the golden
generation we're still good that's what
you want on this
podcast fair I I want to because to be
fair I looked at this quite a bit in the
last few days and it's this thing about
who's a successful manager and who's
deemed not a successful manager and you
know I was looking at the win
percentages of say the golden generation
Steve is WI percentage overall is
57.1% yours is
41.3 um you know W's is down at 25 mine
was 35 in Valencia skulls is was 30.8
I'm just nameing five
there 35 are you serious I'm
35% what's no but what's staggering and
look charity the equivalent Char Shield
friendly is that but then you think
about these managers have unbelievable
careers Shawn D gr Potter Roy Hudson Sam
allise Eddie how and you know Roy your
win percentage overall is
38.7% Eddie how is
35% Sam Ali's overall win percentage in
the Premier League is 32% Roy Hudson's
overall win percentage in the Premier
League is 32% gr Potters who's deemed an
unbelievable manager and I think he's a
great coach 28% Shawn D is 28% now
that's what I'm talking about in terms
of they deemed to be very successful
think you mentioned this quite a few
times Ro over the last few years and we
would say they are successful managers
but they've got probably three 400 games
under the belt how do you two who have
maybe only had one difficult job between
you know you've had one difficult job at
ipswitch you had a difficult job at at
maybe um Everton in the last few months
how do you get to 10 jobs 12 jobs like
they have when your win potenti is are
higher than those but you're deemed
already to potentially be oh where's
your next job going to be that's over
that's over a longer period and I'm not
I'm not I'm not disrespecting them at
all I'm just saying the clubs and the
situations yeah so how do how do young
managers when they're being written off
with percentages of 40% 38% as an
example why would you give him a job's
when actually got higher win percentages
than some of the ones that are deemed
have got incredible careers well
unfortunately you sort of have to ignore
it because um I know perception is a big
thing you just talked about it there and
I think again I think our careers maybe
then get held on us a bit you know I
think yourself even going to Valencia
you decided then you're going to go down
your own route but there'll be there'll
be an element of people that would
probably sitting back in England go it
didn't work for him out there you know I
mean that's a reality that's the the
real world that we live in so you got to
try and ignore it or you get drawn on a
silly article that just throws that up
without any context of where you worked
at you know Sam allad will be low
because he kept keeping clubs in the
league that maybe didn't deserve to stay
in the league or whatever it is so I
think that's a per you just got TOA and
put it to the side and work forward but
I know I know what you mean it can have
an effect it's the world you think it's
because those managers maybe took jobs
lower down to start with and then went
like that and maybe the jobs that say
the golden generation have got have gone
in a lot higher and maybe the there's
that perception that I think that's
where people there's an element of where
if you you finished and you've had a
decent career and you get a decent job
quickly I think there is that resentment
towards managers who've had a good
career and just say you might mention a
few managers there who were down the
lower leagues and they learned their
trade at League one or League two and
two 300 games and they sometimes get
away with I think when they get better
jobs but I think people are waiting for
certain players who've had certain if
they've seen they've got an easy job
quickly or a big job quickly I think
there is that idea of like oh well some
you don't get the benefit of doubt as
much as other managers when you've had a
difficult spell because every manager
even the great managers go through
difficult spells they
can't players with a big name a great
play you can't make your mistakes if you
know what I mean so the manager your T
well there Roy hodin I think started in
Sweden we don't really know how it went
or obvious he did really well at the
time but I think Shawn dice was at
Watford initially Grand Potter what I'm
saying is even when they're having a
good time or a bad time they're going a
little bit under the radar in terms of
them whereas you everything's right in
the spot
like and it feels like everyone in this
country desperate for our Pep Guardiola
because everyone says well pep do went
straight in Barcelona pep guarda is a
genius he's probably going to be the
greatest manager of all pluses and
minuses you have to hold your hand up
you go listen because your career that
has given you an opportunity but then
you're not giv that bit of that bit of
brain space when you have a difficult
spell because again the first thing they
TR you is oh you're never going to be as
good as what you are as a player and
that's yeah that there's there's some of
the Hang-Ups you have to face Eddie H's
had it I suppose a little bit Eddie H
was going to be this and that then
Newcastle to a difficult spell but he
started off really well obviously I know
obviously done really Bourn went to
Burnley for a while he came back to
Bourn then and
that's there there challenges for every
manager yeah it's not just don't get
enough time though like Rooney how long
was he in that job it's crazy like I
think we spoke about before but you're
going into a club you've got to change
everything you get a bad run of results
I feel like back in the day they didn't
just get rid of you after 12 13 weeks
and I think it it takes time so but
that's your decision making the club
you're picking
Birmingham I know they were doing okay
at the time even weigh stuff at Derby
I'm sure that was difficult off the
field stuff go to the stat so everyone's
got a different Journey but yeah but
when a lot of managers you you don't get
enough time of course not obviously not
it ramps up as well when you get a
manager that's weren't doing badly you
know and then it feels like oh they've
bought oh like okay St out instantly
instantly Under Pressure it's a horrible
situation we' mentioned golden
generation and send our best wishes to
Sven gor and Erikson um
and I know you like talking about the Jo
gold generation but there's this feeling
Frank and I don't think I've ever spoken
to you about this that we were sort of
we could have been set up better we
could have potentially been more sort of
progressive we should have achieved more
and I I just wrote a team down um this
week in a system of play that had David
James in goal we got three center backs
of Saul Campbell on the right Rio fer in
the middle and John Terry on the left
got David Beckham right wing back who
played there under Glenn huddle Ashley
Cole left wing back he's dropped
himself he wants a win
up Paul skulls in Midfield dictating the
Play Holding like poo did you and Stevie
obviously moving forward in those number
eights and then Wayne Rooney and mich
Owen up front I picked that team and I
thought if we were set up in that way
would we have could we have won
something do you think the golden
generation should have won something now
you said that France before better
players I sometimes go along with that
theory as well but do you think there is
an element of us potentially being set
up in a more Progressive Way that could
mean that we would have been able to
keep possession more and do more in
tournament because you were part
obviously of the 2004 and six and I
think it's it's such a long conversation
this one because and I float a bit with
it like you said there yourself because
I do think at times we were probably too
rigid and when I say that I talk from my
own personal experience of playing in
well cups against teams that were not at
our level so I'm not talking about
France and Italy now that's playing
against Ecuador so that were keeping the
ball off us keeping the ball field cuz
they're outnumbering Us in the center of
the park so the things that maybe me and
Stevie get used to doing where we we had
numbers or we were used to now you're
just trying to cover space and and you
actually get a bit mentally done with it
in the game going why is this why is
this happening and I think we were
probably Str that would be you know
Fabio capella one of the greatest
managers in terms of his record in Italy
coming in went with that very rigid
structure as well because that was his
way and he' had great success with it
but for us yeah I do think but there
were a lot of factors to it like the SK
Paul skulls Factor skulls is an
incredible player I remember when I saw
first got into the squad I probably
upset the apple cart a little bit
because I was another one that was sort
of attacking me field now you got three
of them and I know scolan went on the
left of a diamond and we had decent
Euros that year but we got knocked out
um so then skoy kind of went retired
from International Football I think for
his own reasons whatever they were then
went into that kind of deeper role at
Man United and became a quarterback and
was Unreal now you can casually look
back and go I didn't just put scy there
he wasn't playing at that point he
wasn't playing there he was arriving
into the box I remember scoring those
two goals against Scotland B over the
top at that time you know he was an
incredible player throughout his whole
career but the circumstances had changed
you know so there were Wayne and and
Michael didn't quite play together in
that two that much like Wayne and then
Michael started to get his injuries and
then Wayne came into the team so it was
never as clearcut it was a good squad
and maybe with some different you know L
getting another body in Midfield for
sure I think would have helped it
certainly would help for the Dynamics of
people together was a lot of egos was a
years you hear stories about Liverpool
against United was that
so if you're looking at good players on
paper it doesn't mean the Dynamics in
the group is going to come together
that's in England do have that now don't
they they have that togetherness I think
G southgate's really focused on that
which massive credit for that but for
all the experienced players could they
not the group deal with all that stuff
because they had expectations week and
we go to we got to take that on the chin
I think as as the players for that one I
think it was a bit of naivity mid 20s or
whatever I was when I got into the team
fulltime and I look back now and I would
go yeah I probably did see with the
Chelsea boys on the table too didn't
link with a you know I think you just
take that one on the doesn't mean we
would have won or lost that game
necessarily but over a period of time
even the expectation I mean frankf the
group of players should be going there's
yeah there is expectation yeah okay not
everyone's going to be best Pals
together but talking about pressure
playing for England but you were getting
pressure week in we go to your Club
sorry that I'm surprised that was such a
that would kind of really creep into the
camp and affect players when a lot of
these players were winning big trophies
at their clubs every season but it's
hard in football when you've had that
massive game having you like Arsenal
Chelsea Liverpool and then you meet up
with England and it's like you've had to
be the biggest Rivals and then suddenly
the next day you're like come on then
let's get on with it I used to sometimes
find that a little bit difficult um it
was kind of like leave your Club hat at
home and then now run International and
same with style of play as well you go
from playing a club football in a
certain way and believing in it and then
you have to go away with Phil Neville at
England and believe in his style of play
and have like an open mindset and stuff
like that and sometimes you're so
drilled in by your Club aren't you cuz
that's your philosophy D in D out so was
it a case of sometimes when that golden
generation came together you had the
Liverpool Lads that believed in a
certain way playing the Chelsea boys or
yeah maybe and again I think we have to
take responsibility because that that is
the the test and the you know of
International Football you have to be a
to go and be adaptable and understand
what the basically the Chelsea LS wasn't
it it was the Chelsea
Lads we we got we got told for about 6
months after Knocked Out World Cup every
when me John and Ashley were getting PS
everyone let us know it was our fault
that's what n kept telling us when you
would believe them chel youand but Sven
was link with United y he was supposed
to be coming in but you all like Sven
didn't you he used to come back yeah
absolutely yeah we really liked but and
to be fair I always I've always taken
the sort of same opinion as Frank that I
look back and think of as players we
disappointed him we'd fell below our
standards and other countries had great
players but then I just think when I
look at sort of how we played under
Terry in your night six or maybe Glenn
and I think of how we were rigid for
about eight years as you were at
Liverpool quite rigid weren't you in
sort of compact in defense and then it's
very difficult to get out from that and
we were kept the ball were being kept
off Us by teams that were inferior to us
um and you wonder whether it would have
been different if we'd have gone for a
more sort of progressive system or
something you just you know it's a
question when you changed it with Glenn
no Glenn was before yeah but when you
changed it with um Terry vbl Terry ven
was was he not playing ter vbl it was
Terry vbl and then it was U but was not
Terry in making like inv you to play a
nice style of football yeah yeah no
absolutely that's what I'm saying to we
we play different
win what you no that that is a good part
you have this in your head if we played
a certain way we could have won no you
still listen as you know still find
margins yeah you still have to get over
the line in certain games and so even
when you did start playing and you were
having more possession and get more
balls in the box and Brilliant Strikers
like Shear just Nick still came up short
I think you're right but what I would I
would say about that is I think when I
he players talk about Euro 96 and maybe
the World Cup 98 it feels like there was
an enjoyment I mean I was in the squad
without really being in the team but I
don't ever felt like we enjoyed it that
much you know the tournament because you
sometimes get res but it like felt like
a grind didn't it you know it just
didn't feel yours was in England again J
sorry I'm just I'm I'm trying to SP
underw here but when you're obviously
you're playing at Wembley all the time
you you get with that momentum then it
is going to good isn't it more pressure
and obviously Lads are based in England
you got family surely all that comes
into because a lot of ir when you go
away and you sometimes been away for
kind of long spell didn't seem to suit
certain countries because You' always
hear the Brazilian LS they love been
away for four or five weeks together but
as you said if if and if especially if
you think lad's wen't getting on that
well together that does make it a long
tournament you're aware with all doubt
were be that bad was it that bad I
thought it was that bad it was no don't
that bad no no no no I'm not saying it
was that bad I'm say it was the it was
them was it was you but scor you never
you like going away I for example SC
used to come back you on about white you
know scy kind of retired from England
yeah he was you know he's still fairly
young but he used to come back and he
yeah didn't like it I would think the
man united boys I'm not I'm not pinning
on you we were a generation slightly
younger than you that Chelsea Lads so
when I remember com to the squad and
looking at the man united have I'm go oh
like that that they would you would have
G of the room as negative made an effort
Frank sorry would you you were fairly
quiet weren't you you wouldn't have gone
over like to I I just can't visualize
you going over to the Chelsea L for
example just it was good when there was
a cause you know what I mean yeah strike
stri union
man Gary was the kind of person that
when you go back and they say what was
he like what Gary Neville like he say he
I don't not
sure got I could imagine him sitting
down all night
maned dinner was 7:00 she get there
maybe couple of minutes
before under Des honest to God the man
you they all sat there they're done yeah
it's like school did you get more the C
school no I didn't do c School no no but
this this is all not not a diversion
there there were six of us in the squad
where there's a lot of us there there
were a lot of you there and environment
is clearly big because we'll talk about
it at different time you need a good
environment but you don't have to be
best mates and I remember one thing I
remember from yourself and Phil actually
play as players was your mentality I
remember the warm-ups Sheed doing in the
dress room when Phil used to do doggies
in the back of the dress I thought was a
bit much still
do in a positive I like I looked I was
like this is what man united cuz you you
were winning everything pretty much you
that was not to garyan
Phil just in all of our defenses I think
it was quite an intense period between
United Chelsea Arsenal Liverpool there's
a lot of
you we were all going for the Champions
League between s that period of five six
years Jose had come in and was trying to
create a Siege mentality ason Wenger was
obviously with the invincibles Liverpool
was starting to get closer with
obviously Rafa bonitz and there's a lot
of you know anger there between F you
know for S Alex Ferguson V so it was all
a bit like you you at each other's
throat the manager ever get you together
this is my point and and feel that
tension even if you go it's not that
obvious you're not going down and not
speaking to people but you miss
something it wasn't that bad but it
maybe it'd be little things for me so I
know Glenn tried to for instance um he
brought in a single table so basically
rather than having the four round tables
of 10 and then you might sit on
different tables he would bring in the
one big table so you're all sat
basically around one table and things
like that can help um what else think
one of
problems chines I think within that
rivalry if you thought of Chelsea at
that time it was you and John it it
wasn't just like you were in the team
you were like and it probably felt a
little bit like so of Liverpool was me
and St and you were like the class of 92
so the it wasn't just the teams were
against each other the big figures
within those
teams you like did you like going away
with England no not really I remember
for that reason I football nothing to do
with that played Ro you did not but you
must have enjoyed being together and
training with know Roy the tunnel game
Roy the tunnel game uh um Arsenal that
game you remember how arsenal were that
game they were so fired up before the
game Arsenal scor the first goal don't
they what was that the 2-2 no the 42 win
in the end the end yeah we win the game
was that Sharpie no well after that yeah
no it well after that um Ashley Cole I'm
literally sat next to Ash in the
dressing room for England for six seven
eight years Ash comes up to me scream in
my face you [ __ ] after they score the
first goal right Ashley Cole the most
Placid you know Ashley brilliant lad is
he yeah another a great lad
yeah
get Ash come screaming in my face I'm
like what the fu should have booted him
right so literally like a couple of
weeks later you literally sat there next
to him so much was going on you
obviously with Chelsea and there was
that type of thing rivalry took over no
wonder you nothing Jesus this is why
Phil did so much work on environment
when he came into the England job I
think with us and we did I loved going
away with England I absolutely loved it
and I think especially tournaments you
are away maybe you'll have you two three
weeks it's bring you together as a group
yeah he did he he really did yeah his
work off the pitch was really good
Serena carried it on and I think when
you're in a tournament you have the
three-week prep maybe at St George's
part which there's not a lot going on
it's great facilities and then you go
away so you could have like eight nine
weeks together which is a lot and if you
take away the on the pitch time more of
it is obviously spent around each other
and I absolutely loved it and I think
that's why we ended up doing well
because you have to enjoy it like
playing for your country is the biggest
thing ever and I'm sitting here now and
I find it quite sad that at times you
just didn't enjoy it because you look
back and it should be the best day I
don't think there's any any um England
squads like you mentioned like the
golden generation that had the
competitiveness amongst the team like
that generation none not in not in
[Music]
England right Frank want to finish with
Chelsea go go back so Chelsea now but
Chelsea to start with going back to when
obviously Jose joined what was that like
what happened at Chelsea when he arrived
and what impact did it have on your
career uh as as a group he bought um a
huge um self-confidence that rubbed off
we all saw the press conference and we
all felt it the minute he walked into
the room so I think we were we were we
were a good group good players so he
came into a team already that had come
second I think the year before had a bit
of a core of a British the dressing room
we sort of ran the dressing room but he
had that strength within the dressing
room um I think we in that first year we
we got did Big Pete uh cavalo came in so
he went bang is is for other players top
players to make you a better team um
sent us set us up in a pretty simple
structure 433 but at the time it was
soon as a little bit forward thinking
but not much not much to it looking back
um but it was more for me the the
mentality of we're going to win and I'm
telling you so and when you got loads of
20 mid 20s young year old Lads sort of
taking that in I think we all took it in
so it was was the first League match
against United or was second away I was
s a
half give the goal away I we got in
video let's get the
video like no but that was you about a
new manager coming in putting a
statement down and yeah was a big win
even that the season well we we played a
diamond that day for some we went into
433 I don't know why we played a diamond
and it was a bit study the game and it
was a great game we nicked it one nil
but then as we got in as we hit the
ground running all all new things which
which fantastic man management sit there
and go he the next six games we're going
to win that that win that win that wi
that it was new to us do you know what I
mean no one had come in yeah and we're
going we will then that kind of it went
through to the team on a personal level
it was probably pretty similar it was
like I was you know a good player I was
getting better I'd had a decent year
before with with rier in the second year
but I I needed someone and his way with
me was to kind of go you are you're
there and that's you need to win titles
now and me being impressionable was like
okay boss I'll try and do that and and
it helped me do you know what I mean and
it was a lot of that as I said it was
not loads of information to give me
about that it was almost like you'll be
there Mady will be there the other one
might stay a bit more than you there's
your Wingers we do this we do that and
you know it was uh it was spot on some
of the greatest things for me in
management are simple things simple
things mentally simple things on the
pitch as well you mentioned earlier when
you talk about masiri about he doesn't
turn up but then Roman Abramovic didn't
turn up but he was successful what was
sort of like he how was Chelsea so
successful and the model became so so
successful even changing managers all
the time still what was it about Chelsea
under Abramovic that made it such a sort
of success machine really it was I mean
for many years the only United won more
Premier League titles well then it it's
the players isn't it I think if you if
you explain it that way we had such a
strong core of players that when the
manager changed few would be dis scrun a
bit about it if you would be happy
because they might get back in the team
but the basis of it remained that we had
drum being the captain that was there
visually for everyone to see myself who
was behind that a bit quiet but maybe
like like my training I was bit of the
standards man D was like looking after
the boys and address from the African
boys and scen and these ones and the
French speaking and Big Pete so we just
had this however Smart IT personalities
big spine I don't know how much you know
if it would stuck with Jose for that
patch and he stayed on I know Jose
history now sort of looks like he moves
on after a few years anyway and Carlo
left after two years top managers so I'm
not sure it was necessarily the right
but they he did manage to get over the
line again with the players do you know
what I mean and it became you know the
the Roman sort of idea he came and had a
few harsh meetings of us in those few
years when he was more present what
would he say he just come in one was
before we played Old Trafford in the
Champions League he just come and it
just s of be really harsh and I remember
him say once before before the Old
Trafford at the hotel game I think
Chikorita went for and scored early in
the game champion League Quarter final
or something and he sat down and went
and this was translated which makes it
even harsher you know the Russian
translation waiting for the translation
go it's not going to be good you know I
mean and he he was like do I think we're
going to win this game no do I think
will you be here at the end of the
season if we don't win this game a lot
of you know you know that was being
translated to us like two hours before
the game typically we all go out like
little kids shouldn't have been saying
that before the game and all that but
really what he did with I didn't realize
he was so invasive like that he had he
only had a few I've got to say it'd come
to a lot of games and in the early years
my bigger memory is him cuddling us a
bit not too close you know well down
high five and off and that was great but
there were a couple of times I remember
with Carlo onu he came in we won the
league and we won the FA Cup but we got
knocked out by Inter Milan in the
champion Jo was the manager and by Jo by
joose beat us at the bridge and um he
came in and absolutely went sort of went
at everybody from ourselves and manager
it was strong um and then after that we
went about nine unbeaten we were winning
so we start we won 70 8 nil at the back
end the season and it was we had a good
and El could Dr muda and it was we were
strong but we'd been a bit like that he
came in and went B and everyone walked
out the room and then we were on a big
run not saying it was just that but
there was definitely so when I say it
was the players there was also a
cultural thing around the club there it
was like we're winners coming second was
the disaster for and and I felt it as
well we as we as a group of players it's
not the ones that go see you later next
year let in the Champions League next
year anyway it was his culture and
mentality really yeah I think so I think
it just landed and then it was what it
was and maybe sacking managers as much
as it could have been good or bad was a
reminder of the brutality of it so if
you don't live up to the standards of
the owner and if you don't live up to
the standards of the dressing room when
we were strong on that there were loads
of players that came in you know like
not to say this is the reason but Kevin
De bruyne came through and moved on and
mo Salah and that and they're obviously
world class players to say the least now
but there were a lot of players all that
that got patted away that just worked
for Chelsea Frank at the time like I
don't know if that would obviously if
you hear about owners getting involved
people go that's out of order it's this
doing obviously your dressing was strong
enough to deal with all that but I I
love that culture of Chelsea and in
terms that he was just a winner machine
would you like an owner coming in Jim if
you were a player and oh no yeah yeah
but the thing about Chelsea at that time
and changing managers there was always
this feeling from the outside that
Abramovic wanted Chelsea to be like
Barcelona the way they played a little
bit and I could never understand it
because I'm thinking just win every
season I'm always thinking why would you
change that model CU your model almost
reminded me a little bit the way I'd
always see like a bay unich where big
powerful strong you wouldn't want to
play against you got quality but it's
not massively overplaying but you're
your team and you play against you're
thinking how you going to beat there
yeah and I used to just think s you're
winning I I presume that one I'm
presuming a bit here but um there might
have been a lot of people around the
owner the ownership that would be oh
you've done well here but you could play
like Barcelona that's amazing and I
presume that that might have because we
we probably tried that came in didn't
scari vs bers we tried to be a bit more
expansive and it didn't work really and
then when when they left through the
seasons we went gas hi didn't come in
and went bank and then we went with the
players even with Carlo and with um con
the type of managers a bit more formula
and methodical aren't they but but the
the the thing with it as well was I felt
that the Chelsea fans didn't demand they
W they were not looking for Ticket
tackle football I love jobber up front
and me joining on if we did go long and
J like you know what I mean like it was
there was no real desire for it but
maybe you know like in the world was
changing a bit tick attack it was
amazing let's try and do that but it
never really worked when Abramovic came
in was he sense did he know the game was
he like or was he just digging people
out was did you have a run of bad
results or something or it' have been
off the back of a run of results he
never declared himself as to why it was
it was never like go because of this
this this it was more of a if I don't
see you L winning then we'll have to
make changes it was that cut and dried
looking back I appreciate and even at
the time I was a little bit like oh
myself you know what I mean like you
don't want to be one of those players it
worked yeah it did WOW moving on to
modern day Chelsea you to about winning
a winning mentality under Roman
Abramovic the new ownership have come in
and they've tried tried to obviously do
something completely different from a
strategic point of view sort of the
8year contracts do you feel like we're
at the beginning of a winning you know
you've spent 11 um get up three four
five months what three months there last
season do you feel like this is going to
be a successful ownership and that at
the beginning of it or do you think it's
a little bit rabbit in headlights and
they're going to have to change um I I
think it's definitely going to take time
and I think the strategy might have to
develop as it goes because at the minute
you can't forget the one thing that's
important when you've been a winning
club for 20 years you got to win you got
to keep the fans happy you keep the
media you know engaged in it in a way
that's not negativity so I think they're
going to have to change these players
have to develop quickly and I I feel for
the manager a bit not feeling sorry for
him but you know I understand that that
that change is going to take time for
those players to do what he what is he
experiencing there what did you
experience at the end of last season
that you said you thought would be
difficult this season my feeling was
because uh it was a bit different for me
in a way because I probably had half the
squad I remember going through the squad
on the board in in the office and it was
like half the squad at least and this is
30 players I want to leave or been told
that they're going to leave and we had
seven games to go that were going
against like Arsenal playing for the
title Man United playing for Europe Man
City brenford you know all these teams
you go if we've got no you know this
lack of motivation with a group players
want to go with had a few injuries and
stuff it's not going to get there so
when the positive I saw at the end of
the season those players have to go now
for whatever reason some some you might
have say could you have kept him but
whatever moved them on and then bring
but then you're bringing in another
batch of players which is going to take
time and the reality is as well with
with younger players that don't have you
never win anything with youngsters like
the reality is now you look at what Man
City and Liverpool doing there's a gap
and it's going to take time to do that
so I'm not saying that you have to
completely turn the strategy around and
go okay now go and buy the finished
article you know going by Harry Kane in
the summer or going by but I think you
do have to look at going okay what's
talk about spines again we got enough in
the spine there that's going to pull us
through and they is going to be vocal on
the pitch going to drive training every
day cuz the manager you can't do all
those things you know players have to
take I I just look sorry I I just look
at it and I think City and Liverpool for
sort of five or six years are probably
been the two best teams in Europe or the
world if you like and I think Chelsea
almost forget that this new ownership
it's being that scatter on that you you
got top four I think and got to a Cup
Final in your first season then
obviously tle comes in Chelsea would
always third under Thomas tle and yeah
what manager could have competed with a
Liverpool or a man city how good they
were so Chelsea were doing thought they
was doing fine two Cup finals against
Liverpool Liverpool won on penalty
shoots on both of them so they were
competing with the two best teams in
Europe at the time and then the the
owner comes in and then all of a sudden
Chelsea like look like the eighth
whereas like even for a few years you
know they weren't winning
everything they were still really
competitive were the best of the rest if
you're like and it's still competitive
league like spars Arsenal Manchester
United that time they were still sort
like the best team behind those two and
all of a sudden now you look at it you
think the miles away from miles away
from the top two but even sort of like
you look at Villa now even like in
Newcastle you know Manchester United
last season it just feels like so
quickly it's just gone from being almost
there to just miles away yeah yeah no I
see what you're saying the it's a
premier league it moves forward really
quickly and at the time now as I saying
the strategy has been to to to recruit
young and it's going to take time now
you're seeing the difficulties of that
so I don't think anyone can expect I
think if Chelsea you know progression
this year will be starting to play
better and get a better feeling around
the place I don't know what that ends up
in the might be eighth it might be sixth
or whatever I don't know but that it's
just a reality of it that car I agree
with what you're saying just wanted to
ask about J Mourinho and perception of
managers before obviously Jose was seen
as the greatest manager in the world
with Pep Guardiola what do you think's
happened in the last do you think the
game's moved on in terms of style
expectations or do you think there's
still a place for a Jose know playing
the style of play that he plays what
because the perception's changed hasn't
it around Jose in the last few years's
no doubt about that yeah I I think
there's definitely a place for for it
because you know not everyone you manage
with your style and I don't think anyone
would expect him to go miles away from
that CU that's what's given him success
over the years I think the reality is as
well I saw when he lost his job recently
that oh um back to the win percentage um
Jose was 48.2% at Romo which is his
lowest ever that's why he's got to sa of
course it was at Romo he's not a Chelsea
a squad that's going to get 70% win
percentage so everyone's got different
challenges he's got them to two finals
European finals wins one of them doesn't
win the next one um and I just think you
know it's I would never I'm not going to
comment too much I don't know watch Roma
I don't watch Italian yeah on message
and stuff yeah but I don't I I don't I
think it would be quite lazy to kind of
go he's still you know like people talk
about him the old being quite harsh play
he's still a big story up here he is and
I know he's you know been sent off
whatever times over there that comes
with the Jose thing but I when I look at
him I wouldn't want to see think about
exactly how he is with the players at
Roma because I've seen a lot of stuff
this week as well players game thanks
very much I know that can happen a lot
play thanks very much on to the next one
but at the same time I I would have
thought he' adapted he's a smart he's a
smart man he can't change from being
Jose he's one in 30 titles or whatever
it is so I think there's absolutely a
place for him it'll be I think it'd be
interesting to see where he pops up
[Music]
next couple of community questions how
much was natural T Talent versus work
rate to become the elite footballer you
were uh is that that should be a
question for you like as a Viewpoint do
you know I mean it's hard for me to on
Frank was
99% you know what yeah that's like a
back but Frank what you can score goals
from Midfield which is a massive talent
I mean seriously put a lot of work in
Frank as well a lot of work I've saw it
myself West Ham constant finishing and
you know I mean everything you you was
doing in the hard work situation then
obviously talent I remember the remember
that Harry RN that when he done the
interview saying he's going to be this
and he's going to be that because I
always found it Frank very tough for you
especially when we when I came to West H
with your with your dad and your uncle
it was so hard in the even just watching
how how how you had to react to certain
stuff this why I remember suest nepotism
basically well yeah and I remember I
remember you when you when you went back
with Chelsea and you Scot I always sent
a message said nice one Frank you just
do your stuff but that must have been
really tough Frank going through that
stage there yeah it was tough cuz I was
probably 17 18 was a kid still really so
when grown men are giving you stick for
that but now with reflection you look
back and kind of go it was probably a
make it of me because at the time when I
was bit soft but you kind of and then
you get through it and you come through
and it makes you a bit tougher so I
don't reflect on it it was certainly
certainly tough at the time but also it
drive you to work hard as absolutely
prove people wrong yeah that that stuck
with me through my career and it
probably the start of it probably
started there a little bit but I was in
a great environment too at West H
because I had Harry rnap and as much as
it was hard for me having my dad and
uncle probably did help a tiny bit do
you know what I mean in certain ways and
for a little step and and then all
sudden I went and did the step but
players like yourself uh Deano Harry had
a nice little Environ to train and I
loved it cuz I look up people the
socials were amazing but better to say
but I think the original question I
think work hard work is a talent itself
so if you prepared to put in the was
very natural to me like to one did Harry
come up one time and really defend
you it was brilliant it's a beautiful
watch it aged very well I we we used to
room together England
me and when you think
that let's leave it
there but I always when I think of like
sort of you know like the superstars of
the England team and you think of like a
Rio or a Michael Owen or a Rooney or
Stevie they don't do the 21s they just
go bypass it don't they whereas we were
there for like two or three years have
to do your stint and you don't normally
see someone like that you then became
one of the stars of the team and I think
that's test them into sort of you ility
of course but also mentality in the work
that you put in as well because as I
said it wasn't like you were seen as a
star at England of the 21s it was like
there wasn't like a clamor to get you in
the squad yeah and myself had sorted
2021 so you sort of done that stint and
didn't really become a regular for
England did 25 26 yeah no I it's it's
probably 50/50 you know like I think in
in the big scheme of of players that
probably play to get to that top level
some naturally you really evident others
I think you got to work hard and that's
part of the cuz I when I was 17 I was
even at school I was probably not always
the best player in the team or West Ham
youth team so but then I'll be I want to
be so I used to run but again fake
things go in your favor at a football in
family in the dad game you are going to
be you're going to run lose and run you
know what I mean all those things he was
one of those trained his off yeah and
I'm lucky that cuz I've seen kids go by
the wayside that don't have that push
maybe their parents are not as invested
or whatever it is they didn't so I had
things in my favor but it stuck with me
me and I then I had like an obsession
with training but like scoring goals
from Midfield wasn't by chance cuz I
remember watching a video that you did
with the Man City younger players had
circulated at city and you were talking
about the timing into the box and I
remember just looking at the detail that
you were sham with them and I was like
wow this is incredible especially for me
as a midfielder probably should have
followed you more than him I got got
sent off a lot but like you put detail
into absolutely everything didn't you
like your standards and was that goal
scoring something that you've worked on
a lot yeah well I worked on I'm just I
was always like a practical man I
learned it from people at right because
we would do finishes from all sorts of
angles and at all sorts of speeds proper
speed yeah so I would always look at
where am I going to have my shots from
they're either going to be arriving onto
something which should be one or two
touches in the box or it's going to be
me shifting it outside the box and
hitting it and I would just do that
again and again and again and then you
layer it up with like when the wing has
got it you wait you run off the back of
someone diagonal runs all those things
you know I think a lot of top players
isn't intelligence I think it's quite
simple personally maybe that was one of
my talents being out to clock right time
to run rather I'm I'm never going to
beat five players really I can clock the
right time to run and maybe be fitter
than you it's hard to coach that Frank
and I I think a lot of that's instinct
when to make those runs I know you a
brilliant Shadow outside the box but
also getting the end of stuff and again
you're talking about other players
scores he had it jard and a lot of play
players actually do have the good
movement but when they do get in there
they panic and they can't finish but
that's it very hard to coach that yeah
the timing definitely so many times now
I'm where are like so I do think it's a
real a real I think you got to be really
hungry as well I was really hungry for
goals yeah it's a good point I remember
used to work with players midfielders
you talk about getting the box and they
would players would turn on said to me
well and you you mention you and Jared
and schools and all these boys and they
were turn go but I've made three runs
you go know sometimes they've made 20
runs but you only see the end of one
maybe you know you got to keep getting
in there and be brave enough to not get
there and be brave enough to miss but
players make three or four R they think
I've done no no no keep keep getting in
there be bra with you even like I knew
you going honestly you'd be watching the
game Chelsea be like two or three up the
game's finished and everyone just
walking around but if he hadn't scored
he he'd always get one in the last minut
keep I got that Jammy bastard scored
again his other favorite was if he
hadn't scored getting loads of shots in
and saying sorry before anyone's even as
a go I know I know he gets it again he
goes again I didn't realize you were
standing me to
was a bonus is your contract for scoring
goals I was just well play that
was no bonus stuff yeah and last
question which player have you coached
that reminds you of yourself the
most uh um well I used to get asked this
about Mason man it was just an easy
question do you know what I mean and I
didn't really I didn't really see it if
I'm honest I think we had different
attributes we played in a similar era of
the pitch obviously and he sort of ran
forward but he's not got the finishing
he probably no and he you know just talk
to us about him and his move tonight
talk to us about what you see in him as
a player because obiously you believed
in him enormously and got great things
out of him he's obviously struggled in
his first bit at United just talk to us
about him can you a little bit yeah I
mean a bit of injuries as well to be fa
and a team that's Str struggling and a
big negativity in certain ways but um
from my point of view because I took him
to Derby he he he changed everything for
me there really him and tamori and
Wilson a young mason particularly his
level in training um was was high high
level um pressing brilliant off the ball
stuff brilliant uh if you want to give
him information takes it like that we'll
jump we'll recover we'll jump we'll
recover a great lad uh good technically
very good technically so I think he he
was really I think he's really high
level in lows of those areas and and a
proper lad that you say you can give him
anything so I think probably he's
probably suffered from a change into a
bad mentality I look at him he looks
quite a sort of
a I'm trying to say this in the right
way which doesn't sort of if you like
impact negatively upon him but he looks
like a nice a nice mental has he got
that real Fierce mentality no no he has
he's very driven like if you um if you
drop him the face goes I mean straight
away he one of those and not in a bad
way he's like no I want to I want to
show you he absolutely would want to
show he's very determined that don't I
wouldn't be sort of like kidded by as
you say I see what you mean about the
look of him but he definitely is a
determined lad uh I'm not just saying it
because he's my lad a bit and I've had
you know relationship on the pitch in
terms of managing him but I do think
he'll come good because of that and
because of his talent and once the team
gets more structured because I I do
think it's important for a structure of
your team to say that you're you're an
aggressive eight or you're in a 10 and
when the only worry I had when he went
to man united was go where does Bruno
Fernandez and him fit and then you go
and then you got cmir I know it's
starting to develop already and change
probably away from that as an idea but
you kind of go where' you fit and I
think when you are and this is not not
to dig Mason or to dig man united
actually for bringing him in but you got
I think a player that level for that
level of man you got to go this is the
plan what i' want to hear you know what
I mean and my question would be where do
where did we fit he's almost got to play
Cent midfield if
Fernand 433 man isn't is is he basically
the position that you played in that
sort of a you know Bas one sitter and
then one of the two in front I would say
he's probably slightly more advanced
than me in general Play I Like to arrive
from deeper probably drop down and play
a bit more than arrive from deeper I
think he's high where in tles team that
won the Champions League is's a 10
highest 10 on the side two 10 and a nine
and I think he could do that probably
than I could in a way I like to come
from deeper so a bit bit higher up comp
play as a single 10 as well but again
it's you into the captain of the
football club Bruno Fernandez is playing
there who hardly gets injured as far as
I see it so I think that would be a
difficult one that is a conundrum to to
solve as a team to get him you know into
the into the team and his best position
but that's one of his challenges isn't
it if you're good enough you got to find
a way and we can make excuses and again
the injuries have held him back no doubt
and he's gone into a difficult I think
time at United but if he's got that
belief and that
Personality yeah you got find your way
into that team yeah but Roy like like
Frank said it's the structure if he's
got the right structure and you can fit
him in that and that's what that's what
we're saying about United earlier you
got to get get the structure right then
you can put someone like getting the
team Frost I agree on both points
because mace does have to do I think he
will but I think when you go from
certainly when I had him at Derby when I
managed him at Chelsea and then tle came
in but they would dominate a lot of
games my team i' have him jumping would
be quite help the pitch a lot I do think
man united do a lot of their best work
when they're Counterattack him they
turnning teams around and rash going
bang bang bang maybe Ma has got to get
to grips with what that looks like for
him cuz all that high pressing stuff's
great if you're in a high pressing team
they're not massively High pressing Team
all these sort stuff in tight areas up
the pitch which I think he's good at and
can get better at it I think and be more
effective in the Box Score more goals I
don't think they stay there lows and you
kind of going like that they actually go
their best stuff when I when I've
coached against United is probably have
a lot of a ball but be be careful of
that yeah and I'm not sure that m is one
that's going to be going oh yeah I'll
join you Marcus you know what I mean
it's not that's not easy for anybody so
you know it's different style of play as
well what's the best piece of advice
you've ever had to finish um well it'
probably be from my mom and it would be
stay
humble and keep your feet on the ground
no matter what you know what I mean she
was always and she used to say rise
above it would be her things so stay
humble and and Rise Above [ __ ] and I
haven't always managed to do that I
don't think any of us do do you know
what I mean but sometimes I check myself
a little bit that be that nice brilliant
Frank can I ask you one
thing just to say this
oh no he's going to get
youo you must be aware uh obviously when
when you've manag and you do your
interviews and you do that thing where
you're laughing then go serious yeah I
say I love it I used to love
it looking for it now no yeah I you know
you do it or you try to stop it now to
stop
it no but I have I my daughter sent it
to me a ago like was it meme whatever
they call it I don't even really but now
now not now I've seen I can't unse it
I've done a few press conferences where
I've you know you do it and you go
[ __ ] you know I mean can't help it
brilliant well
done Frank in the
middle
anti Irish isn't it I tell
you I want be no I want to
be
right about England
one to
be we just stayed at a different
Hotel dri bus driver thanks
[Music]
everyone
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