Rethinking Civilization - Crash Course World History 201

Summary

In this episode of Crash Course World History, John Green explores the concept of civilization through James Scott's 'The Art of Not Being Governed.' He challenges the traditional narrative of civilization as a progression from barbarism to a settled, agricultural society. Instead, he presents the idea that hill cultures, like Zomia in Southeast Asia, were formed by people fleeing state control and the burdens of civilization. Green also discusses the interconnectedness of civilization's achievements and the sustainability of stateless social orders, prompting a reevaluation of what it means to be civilized.

Takeaways

• 📚 Civilization is a complex and controversial concept, often associated with progress but also with privileged status and the potential for insult.
• 🎮 The video game metaphor highlights the ongoing updates and changes in our understanding of what constitutes a civilization.
• 🏞 The traditional narrative suggests that 'uncivilized' people were attracted to settled agriculture and civilization, but this may not be the full story.
• 🤔 James Scott's 'The Art of Not Being Governed' challenges the idea that hill people were primitive, instead suggesting they chose to avoid state control.
• 🌾 Agriculture's role in the development of civilizations is emphasized, with food surpluses enabling population growth, job specialization, and the rise of states.
• 🏛 The historical association of civilization with state control is explored, noting that without a state, the concept of 'barbarian' may not exist.
• 🏙️ Cities and settled agriculture are linked to the formation of states, which in turn are associated with the development of civilization and its benefits.
• 🏹 The idea that hill cultures were formed by people fleeing civilization due to the downsides of state control, such as taxes and forced labor, is introduced.
• 🏞️ Hill people are reconceptualized as not just potential future citizens of a civilization but as refugees from it, seeking freedom and avoiding the pitfalls of state control.
• 🌳 The narrative that life in the hills might be preferable to life in agricultural states is considered, with the potential for better health and freedom from epidemics.
• 🌍 The concept of 'Zomia' is introduced as a region of stateless, mountainous areas in Southeast Asia, suggesting a conscious choice by its inhabitants to avoid state structures.

Q & A

What is the main theme of the video script?

The main theme of the video script is the concept of civilization, challenging the traditional narrative that uncivilized barbarians naturally progress to become part of civilized society, and introducing the idea that some people may have actively chosen to avoid state control and live outside of it.

What does the term 'civilization' often imply when used to describe an individual or a group?

When used to describe an individual or a group, the term 'civilization' often implies a privileged status that may not have been earned, while the term 'uncivilized' is generally considered an insult.

What is the traditional narrative of the development of civilization according to the script?

The traditional narrative suggests that uncivilized barbarians from hills, forests, or steppes realize the benefits of settled agriculture, abandon their barbaric ways, and assimilate into civilized society in valleys.

Who is James Scott and what is the main argument of his book 'The Art of Not Being Governed'?

James Scott is an author who argues in his book 'The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia' that the view of hill people as primitive tribal barbarians is incorrect, and he questions many assumptions about civilization.

What is the significance of the 'Zomia' region in James Scott's argument?

The 'Zomia' region, which is mountainous and jungle-y, is significant in James Scott's argument as it is home to a large population that has lived relatively stateless lives, possibly choosing to avoid the state control and civilization associated with settled agriculture.

What is the 'swiddening' agricultural method mentioned in the script?

Swiddening, also known as shifting cultivation, is an agricultural method used by some hill people that provides a more varied diet with less effort, as opposed to the more labor-intensive settled agriculture.

What does the script suggest about the relationship between agricultural surplus and the development of civilization?

The script suggests that agricultural surplus led to population growth and concentration, which in turn led to the formation of states and what we call civilizations, characterized by advancements like writing and arts.

How does the script relate the creation of states to coercion?

The script indicates that the creation of states often involved coercion, with the power of the state resting primarily on the army and taxes, and the exploitation of agricultural labor and subjugation of citizens.

What is the concept of 'Zomia' and why is it difficult to find historical evidence for it?

Zomia is a term used by James Scott to describe a region in upland Southeast Asia and southern China that is relatively stateless. It is difficult to find historical evidence for it because one of the main reasons people created hill cultures like Zomia was to avoid civilizations, and civilizations are characterized by writing, which is largely absent in Zomia.

What is the script's stance on the idea that hill people are waiting to become civilized?

The script challenges this idea, suggesting that hill people are not barbarians waiting to become civilized but rather refugees from civilization itself, having chosen to live outside of state control.

How does the script address the sustainability of different social orders?

The script acknowledges the extraordinary accomplishments of civilization but also points out the sustainability of Zomian-style social orders, suggesting that their way of life is more sustainable than the civilization's current trajectory.

Outlines

00:00

📚 Civilization and Its Discontents

In this segment, John Green introduces the topic of civilization, challenging the traditional narrative that it is a linear progression from barbarism to a more advanced state. He discusses the complexities and controversies surrounding the concept of civilization, including its association with state control and the privileged status it confers. Green also introduces James Scott's 'The Art of Not Being Governed,' which presents an alternative view of hill people as not primitive but rather as individuals who have chosen to avoid the state and its associated burdens, such as taxes and forced labor. The paragraph explores the idea that the development of early civilizations was closely tied to agriculture and the formation of states, which in turn enabled advancements like writing and arts but also required control over people and resources.

05:07

🏞️ The Hill People's Rebellion Against Civilization

This paragraph delves into the concept that hill cultures were formed by people actively fleeing from the constraints of civilization, rather than being primitive tribes yearning to join it. Green cites historical figures and thinkers who have noted the difficulty states have had in controlling mountainous regions and the tendency of people to seek refuge there from state control. He discusses the idea that life in the hills, with its swidden agriculture, might offer a more varied and sustainable lifestyle compared to the settled agricultural states. Green also humorously addresses his own preference for modern civilization, despite recognizing its flaws, and introduces the term 'Zomia,' referring to a region in Southeast Asia and southern China that is characterized by its stateless and mountainous nature.

10:09

🌱 The Debate on Stateless Societies and Civilization

In the final paragraph, Green examines the historical and anthropological evidence for the idea that stateless societies, such as those in Zomia, are not remnants of an earlier stage of civilization but rather a conscious choice to avoid state control. He cites the work of anthropologists like Pierre Clastres, who argued that some so-called primitive societies may have once been part of a state structure but chose to abandon it. Green acknowledges the achievements of civilization, such as agriculture and global interconnectedness, while also recognizing the freedom and sustainability of stateless social orders. The segment concludes with a reflection on the ongoing relevance of these historical perspectives to contemporary questions about social organization and the nature of civilization.

Keywords

💡Civilization

Civilization refers to an advanced state of human society, typically characterized by complex cultural, political, and economic organizations. In the video, civilization is discussed as a controversial concept, often associated with a privileged status and progress, yet it is also challenged for its association with state control and coercion. The script questions the traditional narrative of civilization and its benefits, suggesting that some people may have chosen to avoid it.

💡Barbarians

Barbarians, in historical context, were groups considered uncivilized or primitive, often living outside of state-controlled areas. The video challenges this notion by suggesting that these groups may not be primitive but rather people who actively chose to live outside of state control, thus avoiding the negative aspects of civilization such as taxes and forced labor.

💡State

A state is a political entity with centralized authority and defined borders, capable of enforcing laws and maintaining order. The script discusses the state as a key component of civilization, often associated with positive developments like writing and arts, but also with negative aspects like coercion and exploitation.

💡Agricultural Surplus

Agricultural surplus refers to the excess of food produced beyond what is needed for immediate consumption. In the video, it is highlighted as a catalyst for the development of civilization, allowing for population growth and the specialization of labor. However, it also leads to the concentration of power and the formation of states.

💡Zomia

Zomia is a term used in the video to describe a region of upland Southeast Asia and southern China, characterized by its mountainous terrain and relatively stateless society. It serves as a counterexample to the traditional narrative of civilization, illustrating an alternative way of life that has consciously avoided state control.

💡Anarchist History

Anarchist history is an approach to historical analysis that emphasizes the agency of people in resisting and avoiding state control. The video references James Scott's 'The Art of Not Being Governed,' which challenges conventional views of civilization and argues that hill cultures were formed by people fleeing state control.

💡Swiddening

Swiddening, also known as shifting cultivation, is a type of subsistence agriculture that involves the cultivation of plots of land for a few years and then leaving them fallow to regenerate. The video mentions this as a practice of hill people, suggesting it provides a more varied diet with less effort compared to settled agriculture.

💡Patriarchy

Patriarchy refers to a social system in which men hold primary power and are dominant in roles of political leadership, moral authority, and social privilege. The script notes that while not inevitable, patriarchy is often associated with the development of states and civilization.

💡Epic of Gilgamesh

The Epic of Gilgamesh is an ancient Mesopotamian poem that includes a narrative of the wild man Enkidu, who transitions from a life in the hills to becoming a part of civilization. The video uses this story to illustrate the historical contrast between 'civilized' and 'barbarian' lifestyles.

💡Fad Diets

Fad diets are eating plans that promise quick weight loss or other health benefits but are often unsupported by long-term scientific evidence. The video uses the example of the paleo diet to critique the idea of returning to a supposed 'natural' way of eating, suggesting that a varied diet is more in line with human history.

💡Anthropology

Anthropology is the study of human societies and cultures and their development. In the context of the video, anthropology is used to explore the history and motivations of stateless societies like Zomia, providing context for understanding their conscious choice to avoid state control.

Highlights

Civilization is a complex and controversial concept, often implying a hierarchy where 'civilized' is privileged and 'uncivilized' is insulting.

Traditional narratives depict 'uncivilized' groups as eventually assimilating into 'civilized' society, but this may not be entirely accurate.

James Scott's 'The Art of Not Being Governed' challenges the perception of hill people as primitive, suggesting they may have intentionally avoided state control.

Crash Course World History explores history from multiple perspectives, emphasizing the importance of understanding different viewpoints.

Early civilizations were often founded in river valleys due to the agricultural advantages these locations provided.

Agricultural surplus enabled population growth and concentration, leading to the development of states and what we recognize as civilizations.

The concept of civilization has historically been linked with state control, with 'barbarians' often defined as those beyond state control.

The Epic of Gilgamesh exemplifies the ancient town vs. country debate, illustrating the transformation of a 'barbarian' into a 'civilized' individual.

In Southeast Asia, the idea of hill people joining civilization was associated with the reading of religious texts, suggesting a different form of 'civilizing' influence.

James Scott argues that hill cultures were formed by people fleeing from civilizations due to the difficulties states faced in conquering mountainous regions.

Historical figures like Ibn Khaldun and Baron de Tott noted the difficulty in controlling mountainous regions, suggesting a historical precedent for Scott's argument.

The idea that hill people are 'refugees from civilization' challenges the traditional narrative of civilization as inherently superior.

Cities and settled agricultural states have downsides, such as epidemic diseases, which can make life in the hills seem more appealing.

James Scott's work focuses on the region of upland Southeast Asia and southern China, known as 'Zomia', which is relatively stateless and was partially created by flight from slavery.

The lack of written records from Zomia makes it difficult to conclusively prove Scott's theories, highlighting the limitations of traditional historical analysis.

Anthropological evidence suggests that some stateless societies may have consciously chosen to avoid the state structure as a response to civilization.

Scott's concept of Zomia encourages a reevaluation of what it means to be 'civilized' and challenges the assumption of the inherent superiority of civilization.

The episode concludes by acknowledging both the accomplishments and the freedoms of stateless social orders, prompting reflection on the best way to organize society.

Transcripts

Hi, I'm John Green. This is Crash Course World History, and today we're going to talk about civilization.

Oh, Mr. Green, Mr. Green I have that video game. I like to play as the Assyrians!

Yeah, Me From The Past. It was a video game. In fact, it still is a video game; they've continued to update it.

But, you know, like actual civilization, its best days are probably behind it.

[Theme Music]

So those of you who watched our first series will remember that civilization is a complicated and controversial concept.

Like to describe an individual or a group as civilized is to give them a privileged status that they maybe haven't earned

while to call someone uncivilized is an insult, right?

And according to the usual mythology about civilizations, there are these uncivilized barbarians often from the hills or the forest or the steppe

and they realize the benefits of settled agriculture and give up their barbaric ways to settle in the valleys, eventually assimilating into civilized society.

That's a really neatly packaged story, right?

Like people all around the world come to the same realization and they all make progress and become civilized, but what if it's not actually true?

So today a little something for the anarchist historians among you.

We're going to look at The Art of Not Being Governed: An Anarchist History of Upland Southeast Asia by James Scott.

Scott argues that our view of hill people as primitive, tribal barbarians has it all wrong, and he calls into question much of what we assume about civilization.

So as you know, here at Crash Course World History we like to approach history from many different perspectives

because history isn't just about what happened, it's also about how we think about what happened.

So here you go anarchists, we are finally going to address your burning suspicion that civilization does not actually require a state.

So long time Crash Course viewers will remember that many of the earliest civilizations were founded in river valleys,

probably because the rivers brought water and made agriculture easier and more predictable.

You know, you got the big 3: ancient Egypt, ancient Mesopotamia, and the Indus Valley civilization- all near river valleys.

In fact, one of them is named after the Indus River, and because the land was so fertile for agriculture,

you could finally have large, concentrated populations because there was a food surplus.

Everything that we associate with civilization -- from the idea that different people can have different jobs to like, this video camera -- all a result of food surplus.

Because if some people couldn't create enough food for all people, then, like, all people would be very focused on getting food.

Having a food surplus was a huge change compared to like the first 100,000 years of humanity when everyone was a hunter-gatherer.

Food surplus led to population growth and population concentration which led to states and what we tend to call civilizations

which are characterized by good things like writing and arts and grocery stores, so that's the traditional narrative, but I'm not sure that it's the whole story.

Let's go the Thought Bubble.

Now we might equate civilization with high culture, but historically it's probably more accurate to equate it with state control.

The Han Chinese who were a pretty successful civilizing empire back in the day, wrote of barbarians as people who were beyond state control.

Some of these so-called barbarians were pastoral nomads whose raiding posed a genuine threat to the Chinese, but others were people who lived in the hills.

So the opposition of civilized agricultural societies living in the valleys and barbarian hill people is as old as, you know, like, the hills.

And one of the earliest and most famous examples of the town vs. country debate is the Epic of Gilgamesh

where Enkidu, the wild man from the hills, goes to town, spends seven days with a prostitute, joins civilization and becomes Gilgamesh's best friend.

In Southeast Asia, the story that hill people were dazzled by civilization and joined up circulated as well.

Here, though, the civilizing force was the reading of religious or philosophical texts.

But more important than either access to Classical age texts, or civilizing experiences in the city, was that civilizations were based on settled agriculture and were associated with states.

In a way, it can be argued that without a state, there's no such thing as a barbarian.

But because we live in states, we tend to think that they are

A) Necessary B) Timeless, and C) overall a pretty good thing,

and almost all civilizations are associated with states, like ancient Egypt, or China in the remote past or France if you're into Western civilization.

Thanks Thought Bubble.

I mean it's telling that the Mongols were arguably the greatest conquerors of the premodern world, but we usually don't call them a civilization.

They weren't just agriculture-y and state-like enough.

Although of course the Mongols being the Mongols, there is an exception to the rule:

the Mongols DID settle in a recognizable state in Yuan China.

[Mongol Theme Music]

Ughhh, history, even your exceptions have exceptions.

So when we talk about states, we need to remember that it's pretty common for the creation of states to involve some form of coercion

like in ancient, and sometimes, not ancient societies, the power of the state rested primarily on two things - the army and taxes.

And if you want to create an army or raise taxes, or both, it's helpful to have a sedentary population that spends most of its time producing food because food is very valuable to a state.

I mean, while gold and palaces are beautiful, you can't feed them to your army.

Anyway, agricultural production and the creation of states are deeply intertwined.

Agricultural surplus and control over it leads to other aspects of civilization like property rights and patriarchy.

Well, I guess it doesn't have to lead to patriarchy, but it usually has.

So if states rely on the exploitation of agricultural labor and the subjugation of their citizens,

then the civilization narrative that barbarians were drawn to civilizations by their obvious superiority is kind of problematic.

Because there's a big downside to all that state control and taxes and conscription and servitude.

And this leads us to James Scott's big idea that rather than primitive hill tribes being attracted to the glamour and stability of valley settlements,

hill cultures are formed by people running away from civilization;

basically, Scott argues that people flee to the hills because it makes it hard for states to find and conquer them.

The Arab historian, Ibn Khaldun remarked that Arabs can gain control over flat territory and do not pursue tribes that hide in the mountains.

Then you have the Franco-Hungarian military officer, Baron de Tott, poetically exclaiming that "The steepest places have always been the asylum of liberty",

but the great French Historian Fernand Braudel probably summed it up best when he wrote,

"The mountains as a rule are a world apart from civilizations which are an urban and lowland achievement. Their history is to have none, to remain always on the fringes of the great waves of civilization..."

And you may have noticed from the mountainous tribal areas of Pakistan to people in Colorado with their legal marijuana, it's still kind of difficult for states to control hill people.

This idea turns the civilization narrative on its head.

Hill people are not barbarians waiting to become civilized. They're refugees from civilization itself.

And this brings up the possibility that life in the hills is actually better than settled agricultural states with their wars and taxes and forced labor.

Furthermore, cities and settlements breed epidemic diseases and when the next Spanish flu comes for all of us, it's going to be good to be in the mountains.

That said, I'm not a 100% sold on the argument, which is why I'm living in very flat, very civilized Indianapolis.

I mean, as I said earlier, without agricultural surpluses, we wouldn't have the Internet, which I'm fond of, also I have tried the hunter-gather paleo diet and it did not suit me. I like Doritos.

Stan just told me that the paleo diet is not in fact, the diet the people of the hills have, apparently the kind of agriculture they used was called swiddening?

It means shifting cultivation, and apparently it's great because it provides a more varied diet with less effort.

Score another one for the hill people. Maybe I'll try to popularize the swidden diet. Ohhh! Time for the Open Letter!

Oh my God, the new globe opens and food comes out of it!! Is it my birthday? Man, I love our new globe!

Anyway, an open letter to fad diets. Dear fad diets, you know what doesn't work? Eating unheathily.

You know what does work? Eating healthily. Your noble prehistoric heritage as a scavenger has prepared you to eat anything. Anything that is food.

So the idea of eating only one kind of food is just sort of inherently ludicrous.

I mean the average freegan is literally healthier than I am, and they just eat whatever is in the dumpster.

In short, fad diets, eating discarded food is much more in line with most of human history than the paleo diet.

Best wishes, John Green.

All right, so far, much of what I've said can be applied to hill people from all over the world at various times,

but the focus of Scott's book is the region of upland Southeast Asia and southern China that he calls "Zomia."

Zomia is mountainous and jungle-y and home to between 80 and 100 million people.

It'a a little hard to conceptualize because we're so used to thinking of history in terms of states, and this region is, to quote him, "relatively stateless."

Zomia was at least partially created by slavery actually because flight from slavery is one of the main reasons that people head for the hills.

According to Scott, "Southeast Asian states were slaving states, without exception, some of them until well into the twentieth century.

Wars in pre-colonial Southeast Asia were less about territory than about the seizure of as many captives as possible who were then resettled at the core of the winner's territory."

I can just hear all you Crash Course viewers saying, "Wait, is there any evidence that any of that is true?"

Kinda... But like if one of the main reasons people create hill cultures like Zomia is to avoid civilizations and one of the hallmarks of civilization is writing?

Then, it stands to reason that there won't be much written evidence from Zomia, as writing is kind of like the bread and butter of traditional history.

Off-topic, but bread and butter is really no longer the staple of any diet. We should really change that phrase to like the Doritos Locos Tacos and Chipotle burritos of traditional history.

So the evidence that we can look at is flawed because it's mainly what other people have written about Zomians and their hill-dwelling brethren.

Like this Portuguese friar Father Sangermano wrote around 1800 that the people of the area, quote,

"Unable any longer to bear witness to the heavy oppressions and continual levies of men and money made upon them have withdrawn themselves from their native soil, with all their families..."

So basically, he thought, at least, that they were leaving because of conscription and taxes you know, hallmarks of civilization.

And then there are also later colonialists like Sir Stamford Raffles who, despite his name, was not a clown.

He was the founder of British Singapore. Here's what he said about colonial rule in Indonesia:

"Here I am the advocate of despotism. The strong arm of power is necessary to bring men together and to concentrate them into societies... Sumatra is, in great measure, peopled by innumerable petty tribes subject to no central government..."

"At present, people are as wandering in their habits as birds of the air, and until they are congregated and organized under something like authority, nothing can be done with them."

Raffles there makes an accidental but pretty damning indictment of civilization to say that the reason that people exist is so that something can be done with them.

Now admittedly this isn't particularly strong evidence, and it doesn't touch on pre-modern history or the state formation activities of Southeast Asian rulers.

But if Europeans' attitudes and activities drove some people to the mountains, it's possible that earlier rulers,

especially if they founded their states on war and slavery, and we know in many cases that they did, that they may have had a similar effect.

So can we finally conclude that hill people as well as nomads and other cultures that attempt to live outside the state structure are not primitive people left behind by civilization,

but those who have made a conscious choice to avoid it?

Well, in the absence of extensive written records, we call history "anthropology."

That's a joke for all the anthropology majors out there.

And a number of anthropologists have suggested that people who live separate from our ideas of civilization did indeed make that choice consciously in a wide variety of situations.

Like in his book Society Against the State, Pierre Clastres argues that the so-called primitive Amerindian societies of South America were not in fact ancient societies that had failed to invent settled agriculture or state forms,

but previously sedentary cultivators who abandoned agriculture and fixed villages in response to the effects of conquest.

So are all these stateless, social orders finally a response to civilization or just people who haven't realized the bounty of civilization yet?

I don't know, and studying history isn't really about providing answers. It's about providing context.

The question of what's the best and most just way to organize our social orders is a big question and a very old one.

But it's something we still need to be asking because we're all still making choices about how we're going to organize ourselves into communities.

Scott's idea of Zomia introduces us to a different way of thinking about things, and equating civilization with coercive state control calls into question the idea of what it even means to be civilized.

But I'm not enough of an anarchist to let this episode go without acknowledging the extraordinary accomplishments of civilization,

not just agriculture but every thing from antibiotics to the ability to be connected to people who live half a world away from you.

The deep and growing interconnectedness among humans has its risks for sure, but it also provides tremendous opportunities.

We can collaborate, we can play each other in FIFA, and we can also do THIS together.

But then again, there's an extraordinary freedom to Zomian-style social orders, and vitally, their way of life is far more sustainable than ours.

Thanks for watching. I'll see you next week.

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