'Boots on the ground should not be be off the table' Ben Hodges interview | DW News
Summary
TLDRRetired U.S. Army General Ben Hodes discusses the war in Ukraine and tensions within NATO. He criticizes the lack of clearly defined strategic objectives by Western leaders, argues Ukraine can still win with more Western support, and warns that another Trump presidency could jeopardize NATO cohesion and embolden Putin. Hodes also alleges the recent Hamas attack in Israel was not a coincidence but rather an effort by Iran to help Russia by diverting attention and resources from Ukraine.
Takeaways
- 📝 Ben Hodes emphasizes the lack of strategic clarity from the West regarding their objectives in Ukraine, leading to conflicting statements and actions.
- 🛡️ Macron's stance on keeping military intervention in Ukraine as an option is praised for strategic ambiguity, contrasting with explicit refusals from other leaders.
- 💡 The inconsistency in European leadership and messages weakens the alliance, highlighting the need for clear U.S. objectives and coordination.
- 👍 Germany's mixed signals—increased military spending and hesitancy in troop deployment—pose a risk to its leadership role and effectiveness in the crisis.
- 🔥 The discussion on the necessity and potential effectiveness of sending troops to Ukraine underscores the importance of defining clear objectives.
- 🛠️ Putin's nuclear threats are viewed as a bullying tactic that the West should not be deterred by, with a call for the West to remain focused on their strategic goals.
- 🚨 Ukraine's potential for victory is linked to Western support and leadership, particularly through precision weapons and making Crimea untenable for Russian forces.
- 📚 Domestic politics in the U.S. could impact support for Ukraine, with bipartisan support being crucial for ongoing aid.
- 💰 Trump's potential policies on NATO and Ukraine are criticized as strategically illiterate and dangerous for both U.S. democracy and international relations.
- 🌍 The Middle East conflict, particularly Iran's alignment with Russia, is seen as a strategic maneuver that diverts attention and resources from Ukraine.
Q & A
What does General Hodes say is missing when it comes to the West's strategic approach to the war in Ukraine?
-General Hodes says what is missing right now is strategic clarity by the United States, Germany, and the West on the objectives in Ukraine. There needs to be clearly defined strategic objectives rather than vague statements about supporting Ukraine.
Why does General Hodes criticize President Biden's earlier statement about not sending American troops to Ukraine?
-General Hodes criticizes President Biden's statement about not sending American boots on the ground because he believes it was a mistake and a gift to the Kremlin, communicating what the U.S. would not do and limiting options.
What are the three capabilities General Hodes says Ukraine needs to overpower Russia?
-The three key capabilities General Hodes says Ukraine needs are: 1) Long-range precision weapons to make Crimea untenable for Russian forces, 2) Precision weapons to neutralize Russia's advantage of numbers by knocking out HQs, artillery, logistics, etc., 3) Weapons with sufficient range to hit targets across Russian-occupied Ukraine like the Taurus cruise missile.
Why does General Hodes say European countries like Germany have no reason to be tired in supporting Ukraine?
-General Hodes says European countries like Germany have zero reason to be tired because not one German soldier has even broken a fingernail. He says the real tiredness is from the failure of political leaders to clearly explain objectives and why the war matters.
What does General Hodes say Ukraine needs to do to fix problems with military manpower and rotation?
-General Hodes says Ukraine's government has to get serious and make political decisions to fix problems with the military personnel system, recall reservists, institute universal conscription if needed. This will allow proper troop rotation so units don't get exhausted.
What threat does General Hodes say another Trump presidency could pose for NATO cohesion?
-General Hodes says Trump encouraging Putin to take actions against NATO allies not spending enough on defense, signals to the Kremlin that NATO cohesion could unravel. This could dangerously undermine deterrence like during the Cold War.
Why does General Hodes believe the recent Hamas attack in Israel helped Russia?
-General Hodes believes the Hamas attack diverted resources and ammunition from going to Ukraine to Israel. It also created massive political problems for President Biden related to U.S. support for Israel, disrupting and delaying the Ukraine aid bill.
What transactional deal does General Hodes worry Trump could make with Putin over Ukraine if re-elected?
-General Hodes worries Trump could make a transactional deal promising Putin that Ukraine would never join NATO in exchange for Russian military withdrawal. Trump wants flexibility for deals rather than coordinating within NATO.
What evidence does General Hodes say contradicts Trump’s claim that Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if he were president?
-General Hodes says there is zero evidence to support Trump's claim. Trump has not provided any logical argument of how Putin would have been deterred from invading Ukraine under his leadership.
How could improved U.S. strategic thinking help address security threats from the Russia-Iran alliance that General Hodes highlights?
-General Hodes says the U.S. needs to recognize Russia and Iran are each other's top allies and think more strategically about countering this alliance. This could help avoid incidents like the convenient Hamas attack diverting focus from Russia's war.
Outlines
🤝 Introducing Guest Speaker General Hodes
The host welcomes retired US Army General Ben Hodes to the show and sets the stage for discussing conflicting signals from Europe regarding the Ukraine war. Topics include whether to send troops to Ukraine, Putin's nuclear threats, coordinating allies, and clarifying strategic objectives.
📈 Germany's Military Spending and Support for Ukraine
The host and General Hodes discuss Germany's increasing military budget over the last few years and positive steps like agreeing to send a brigade to support Ukraine. However, Germany's leader recently made concerning anti-troop comments and refused to provide advanced weapons to Ukraine.
😤 Ukraine Can Win the War with Western Weapons
General Hodes believes Ukraine can still win the war and eject Russia back to 1991 borders, but it requires American and German leadership and advanced weapons. He outlines specific capabilities Ukraine needs like long-range precision weapons to make Crimea untenable and neutralize Russia's manpower advantage.
👀 Domestic US Politics Affecting Ukraine Support
The host asks about prospects for Congress passing a new Ukraine aid bill, which General Hodes says depends on whether enough Republicans vote with Democrats to overcome obstruction. He criticizes how ugly American domestic politics are playing out on the world stage regarding Ukraine.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Russia
💡Ukraine
💡Objectives
💡Nuclear
💡Precision weapons
💡Germany
💡Trump
💡Iran
💡Congress
💡China
Highlights
There is a lack of strategic clarity from the West on objectives in Ukraine
Macron was right to say that the option of sending troops should be kept open
Germany's reluctance to provide aid is the most out of step with other allies
Increasing military spending shows Germany's commitment, but recent comments undermine unity
Before sending troops, clearly define the objective and purpose
Ignoring Putin's nuclear threats is the best response
Ukraine can win by ejecting Russia back to 1991 borders
Ukraine needs long range precision weapons to make Crimea untenable
The West has no reason to get tired supporting Ukraine
Another Trump presidency would be bad for US democracy and allies
Trump may sacrifice Ukraine in a transactional deal with Putin
The attack on Israel diverted resources from Ukraine
There is no evidence that Putin would not have invaded under Trump
Russia and Iran are each other's best allies
The attack on Israel creates problems for Biden's support of Israel and Ukraine aid
Transcripts
Ben Hodes is a retired United States
Army officer who served as Commanding
General of the US Army Europe he now
lives in Frankfurt we meet him in
Washington where he is attending a
security conference General hutches it's
always great to have you on DW and I
think it's especially great to have you
today because there are so many topics
we could uh uh learn from you and maybe
you can help us understand um we
observing conflicting signals from
Europe right now on the one hand there's
uh the French uh president Emanuel
macron uh who said um we should send
troops to Ukraine uh to assist in
defending against the Russian invasion
on the other hand there's the German
chancellor who says no and then the
German Chancellor said or implicated
that there might be already British uh
soldiers on the ground and of course the
Brits denied and then we have Vladimir
Putin who says if you send in troops you
will get a nuclear answer a lot to sort
out maybe I start with a simple question
is uh German Chancellor uh Olaf Schultz
right when he says there are already
British troops on the ground in Ukraine
well of course um I don't know that if
it is true it's not the place of the
German bonness counselor to announce it
if the British have not announced it um
you know what's what's missing right now
is strategic Clarity by the United
States by Germany by the West on on our
objective I what are we trying to
accomplish uh when we say well we're
with Ukraine for as long as it takes or
we don't want Ukraine to lose those are
not clear strategic objectives and so
you end up with these nonsensical
arguments about that you just described
I thought it was terrific that president
mcon said we should not take that off
the table he didn't say we're going to
send them he said we should not take the
option off the table because why would
you why would you communicate to your
adversary What You Won't Do um even if
you never intended to do it why would
why would you say that so um I thought
president mcon what he did was correct
uh my own president made a mistake back
before the beginning of the large scale
Invasion when he said no American boots
on the ground why would you say that
it's not it's not uh um that's just a
gift to the kremin communicating what
you want do right but obviously M didn't
talk to other European leaders before he
said that is this like strategically
motivated or is it just a mistake or
that's a great question and I don't I
don't know why he would have said
something like he could have said French
troops and without having to coordinate
but clearly if you're going to say the
EU or european troops something like
that that probably should have been
better coordinated with other countries
Europe is like really sending out all
these different signals how how much
does this weaken the alliance the United
States has got to be very very clear on
what its objective is uh its
expectations of everybody and then do
what the US traditionally has done which
is to make sure we're all uh coordinated
in our efforts to to do the necessary
work with allies to make sure that we're
in sync on the objectives and the way
ahead and we haven't done that I mean
other than this famous Ramstein contact
group that meets every month um you
don't get the feeling that the US
Administration is doing the necessary
work uh
diplomatically for us to remain United
now secretary John stoltenberg superb uh
Admiral Bower the chairman of the
military committee superb General cavoli
Supreme allly Commander superb but the
Nations do seem disjointed and I think
um to be candid unfortunately the German
bundus counselor seems the one that is
the most out of step with everybody else
it must be really painful for him to be
having to do things he's doing now
providing Aid to Ukraine building up the
bundes fair different from what he ever
imagined he would be doing when he was a
younger politician but it's essential I
mean Germany the most prosperous richest
country in Europe the massive uh
Industrial
capacity um has has got to help guide
otherwise if Ukraine fails we're we're
going to be in a terrible conflict with
Russia in Europe and Germany is going to
pay a massive price the thing that
always wanted to avoid is coming back
but we have to be fair with the German
Chancellor there was this Titan vender
and they really like increasing the
spending uh in the military uh budget
absolutely that's that's what's so
confusing is because two years ago it
was like you know San Venda 100 billion
euros um and then even the other day you
know he's out there breaking ground for
an ammunition Factory another thing I'm
sure he never imagined he would do these
are all good positive steps uh Germany
agreeing to a brigade brigata
lowan um by 2027 these are very powerful
strong signals
but then on the other hand here in just
the last few days he's
undone uh or damaged this sense of
Germany really leaning forward with the
uh um almost panicky statement like
we're not going to put troops on the
ground um and the absolute refusal to
provide Taurus um I mean very very
clearly no way we're going to do that um
which I think is unfortunate because
that would really be helpful to Ukraine
would you think it would make sense
sending troops into Ukraine not without
having clearly Define the objective I
mean what what is the purpose uh this is
a mistake we all make too many times is
to send troops send things send money
but for what end and that's the hardest
thing for our political leaders to do to
clearly Define the Strategic objective
what are you trying to accomplish and if
you have a clearly defined objective and
and you're sticking with that then you
can come up with policy that makes sense
we don't we don't have the clearly
defined objective yet so um if I was an
American Soldier or a German bondes fa
I'd like okay so what what is my purpose
here I'm not against going but what am I
supposed to accomplish but you say when
should keep this option absolutely on
the table of course make the Russians
worry about it give them problems to
worry about instead of reducing their
problems Vladimir Putin was very clear
he said if you send in troops I will
give you a nuclear answer how how
serious is this threat U
zero this is this is what Russia does um
because they see how
easily um rattled we are when they talk
about they might use a nuclear weapon I
mean we have been deterring ourself for
years just because they somebody says oh
we might move a nuclear weapon into
bellus which does nothing to improve the
nuke or increase the chances of it being
used but just by making that
announcement that becomes a topic for
days and days or the other day oh Russia
might be putting a nuclear weapon in
space okay everybody that's all they can
talk about and so the Kremlin sees how
easily we deter ourself
and um so when I try to think
practically all right what would they
do there are no positive outcomes for
Russia if they use a nuclear weapon zero
nothing there's nothing that they could
destroy um that would win the war for
them or make things better it'd be the
opposite you know President Biden said
you use a nuclear weapon catastrophic
consequences for Russia China has said
do not use a nuclear weapon and so I
think the Russians realize that their
nuclear weapons are most effective when
they don't actually use them they just
talk about them and it's amazing to me
that we continue to fall for
this uh bullying threat so you basically
say ignoring is the best
answer I would double down on what is
our objective say we're not going to be
deterred by this this uh these threats
um we we're on the right side here we
are protecting the UN Charter we are
protecting sovereignty you go down why
why Ukraine matters to all of us that
this is not some charity case over in
Eastern Europe this affects Europe's
security and prosperity which affects us
the Chinese obviously are watching so
number one make it very clear what our
objective is number two say we have
thousands of nuclear weapons so
don't don't come to me with your your
empty threat and then we make it clear
that our objective is for Ukraine to win
and we give them what they need to
win I would like to move to that
question exactly um so you're very well
connected uh around the world but also
with uh people in Ukraine the conflict
appears to be at a still stand do you
believe that you that Ukraine still can
win uh this war and how so I absolutely
believe that Ukraine can win and that
it's important that they win and win
means eject Russia back to the 1991
border uh of course for that to happen
uh it's going to take American and
German leadership and support for that
to happen um this this thing could could
have been in a much different place
months ago if we had committed to
helping them win uh instead of what
we're doing um what would they need
uh to overpower Russia all right well
there's probably three sort of different
capabilities come to mind immediately
and there is no one wonder weapon there
is no one thing that's a complete
GameChanger okay uh but obviously the
capabilities they need um are to make
Crimea untenable for the Russian forces
so that means long range Precision
weapons and there's different types that
could hit every every part of the Navy
base
air bases Logistics
headquarters uh in Crimea and there's
nowhere to hide there so we know where
everything is in
Crimea the ukrainians just need the
ability to hit that make it untenable
that's the most important piece of
ground of of Russian occupied Ukraine
number one number two the way you
neutralize Russia's
Mass U their advantage of numbers is
with precision
knockout headquarters knockout artillery
knockout Logistics if you do those then
these huge numbers of
untrained uh cannon fodder that they
bring much less effective so again that
means you need long range Precision
weapons and every square meter of
Russian occupied Ukraine is inside 300
kilm so that Taurus at tachs uh other
weapon systems like that would be very
effective how long can this war go on
before the West in the Western countries
get tired well of course I I'm glad you
asked that because we have zero reason
to get tired I mean not one American
Soldier or German bundes Soldier has
even broken a fingernail so I mean what
are we tired of um we should be tired of
the failure of our political leaders to
explain what what's the objective and
why this matters um the ukrainians of
course have reason to be tired but
everything that I see and hear from
ukrainians with whom I
speak they they they can't stop because
they know what happens in Ukrainian
Villages when the Russians show up
ukrainians do have to fix their
personnel system um they've got over 2
million women and men that are military
age but tens of thousands of them are
are in Germany Poland Romania Baltic
countries uh they're not attracted to
military service there are tens of
thousands that are in Ukraine that are
not in the military so um and the
average age of Ukrainian soldiers is
like over 40 it's incredible so this is
a political decision the government has
got to get serious uh otherwise they not
only do they risk all of their units
being ated
terribly and and soldiers becoming
exhausted because there's no rotation
but also I worry that uh some Nations
will begin to uh be less willing to
support Ukraine if ukrainians are not
even fully committed
themselves talking about governments I
think we have to uh turn our attention
briefly to the situation in Washington
you are well connected to lawmakers from
both sides from both political parties
do you think uh they will reach an
agreement uh on a new Ukraine Bill
members of Congress including the
majority of Republicans actually support
this so so now this is a real test uh
for speaker Johnson that he um is able
to withstand pressure from
Trump um or do enough Republicans decide
to vote with Democrats using one of the
parliamentary procedures that would
allow them to have an uh vote on the
floor so this is
unfortunately you know American domestic
politics is playing out in front of the
whole world it's ugly and uh totally
unnecessary and I think U it it not only
gives Russia an advantage for a period
of time but it also will cause our
allies to think what the hell is wrong
with the United States talking about
Trump I think we have to address this
briefly um he is threatening to withdraw
from NATO or at least drastically uh
reduce the US support if he would be
reelected how danger is this how sorry
how dangerous is this uh not only for
NATO but also for the US itself well of
course another Trump presidency would be
bad news for our
democracy uh it would be bad news for
how other nations view us as a uh a good
example of a liberal democratic country
um but but in Practical terms it's
dangerous when he encourages Vladimir
Putin to do quote whatever the hell he
wants to a NATO country that um is not
investing uh enough into their own
defense uh a remarkable degree of
strategic illiteracy when he says things
like that you know that's a signal to
the Kremlin that okay the cohesion of
the alliance which has always been the
glue the what made NATO so strong and
what successfully deterred the Soviet
Union for decades and now Russia Donald
Trump has an interesting relationship
with Vladimir
Putin do you think it's possible that he
would once in office sacrifice
Ukraine um I think given his
transactional
nature I believe it is possible I think
that uh you know when Trump says I can
solve this in 24 hours of course what he
talking about is that he tells Vladimir
Putin hey look um you pull out let get
an agreement and uh I'll make sure
Ukraine never gets into NATO for example
things like that or you can have Ukraine
but you're going to have to do something
else over here um I think that uh Mr
Trump does not care about
2% he he I don't think he wants to be
encumbered by an alliance where he has
to get agreement with 31 or 32 30 or 31
other nations soon to be
31 instead I think he sees himself like
an 18th century ruler him X and Putin
and they're the ones that kind of figure
it all out I think that's what he really
wants the 2% thing is just a uh a weapon
uh that he uses my last question is
Donald Trump repeatedly says um with him
in the White House Putin would not have
invaded Ukraine and there would be no
war in the Middle
East there's zero evidence uh to to
support that um in the Middle
East I think that we have got to think
more
strategically to recognize that Iran is
Russia's best Ally and Russia is Iran's
best Ally and I don't think that the
attack on October the 7th by Hamas was a
coincidence I think that this as part of
Iran taking advantage of an opportunity
doing something that helps Putin because
surely the Palestinians were not helped
the Russians were helped explain why the
attack helps or helped uh Russia well it
diverted uh attention and resources
immediately I mean literally ammunition
things that would have been going
Ukraine immediately were shifted to
Israel and it creates a massive uh
political problem for President Biden
also I mean you know as you know here at
home we've got challenges with people uh
unhappy with uh American support for
Israel this is a big problem um and and
now this is all held up the the Ukraine
Aid bill is tied to Israel to Taiwan and
the Border um so this disruptive effect
as well as literally a diversion of
resources away from Ukraine helps Russia
General Hotes thank you so much thank
you for the privilege
feel it's right me
sir
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