Moral behavior in animals | Frans de Waal

Summary

El guion explora la moralidad a través de la obra del pintor Hieronymus Bosch y la conducta de los chimpancés y elefantes. Se destaca la capacidad de reconciliación, cooperación y empatía en animales, y se cuestiona la imagen de la naturaleza humana como agresiva y competitiva. Los estudios muestran que los animales pueden tener una comprensión de la justicia y la equidad, lo que sugiere una moralidad evolucionada más allá de la religión.

Takeaways

• 🎨 El orador nació en Den Bosch, inspirándose en el pintor Hieronymus Bosch, quien reflexionaba sobre la moralidad en una época de declive religioso.
• 🖼 La obra 'El Jardín de las Delicias' de Bosch se interpreta como una representación de la humanidad antes o sin la Caída, cuestionando la moralidad sin el concepto de pecado original.
• 🦍 El orador estudió chimpancés y descubrió su naturaleza ambiciosa y su capacidad para reconciliación después de conflictos, desafiando la visión de la agresión y competencia como rasgos fundamentales.
• 🤝 Los chimpancés muestran comportamientos de reciprocidad y empatía, como la reconciliación post-combate, lo que sugiere una moralidad más allá de la simple supervivencia.
• 🐒 La imagen tradicional de la naturaleza humana como competitiva y agresiva fue cuestionada por el orador tras observar comportamientos cooperativos en animales.
• 🐘 El trabajo con elefantes demostró una comprensión avanzada de la cooperación y el reciclaje de favores, lo que indica una base empírica para la moralidad.
• 🤔 La moralidad humana se ve influenciada por la empatía y la reciprocidad, pilares que también se encuentran en otras especies primadas y animales.
• 🤝 Un experimento con chimpancés mostró su capacidad para cooperar y su comprensión de la necesidad de trabajar en equipo para obtener recompensas.
• 😌 El estudio de la empatía en animales, incluida la contención de bostezos y comportamientos de consuelo, apunta a una base biológica para estas emociones en humanos.
• 🔴🟢 Un experimento reveló que los chimpancés prefieren elegir de manera pro-social, es decir, en beneficio de ambos individuos y no solo de sí mismos.
• 🍇 Un estudio famoso con monos capuchinos demostró su capacidad para percibir la inequidad y rechazar recompensas desiguales, lo que sugiere una comprensión de la justicia social entre animales.

Q & A

¿De qué lugar nació el orador y qué pintor famoso se asocia con ese lugar?

El orador nació en Den Bosch, un lugar del cual el pintor Hieronymus Bosch tomó su nombre.

¿Qué obra de Hieronymus Bosch se relaciona con la moralidad y por qué?

La obra 'El Jardín de las Delicias Terrenales' se relaciona con la moralidad porque representa a la humanidad antes de la Caída o sin una Caída alguna, lo que hace pensar en qué tipo de moralidad tendríamos si no hubiéramos probado la fruta del conocimiento.

¿Qué descubrió el orador acerca de los chimpancés en el zoológico de Arnhem?

El orador descubrió que los chimpancés son muy codiciosos y escribió un libro sobre ello, lo que llevó a un enfoque en la investigación animal en la agresión y la competencia.

¿Cómo se concilian los chimpancés después de una pelea?

Los chimpancés se concilian después de una pelea mediante un gesto de reconciliación, como extender la mano al otro, y luego se abrazan y se besan en el hueco de un árbol.

¿Qué comportamiento similar al de los chimpancés se observa en los bonobos?

Los bonobos también se reconcilian después de conflictos, pero lo hacen a través del sexo, manteniendo el principio de reparar una relación valiosa dañada por el conflicto.

¿Qué imagen tradicional se tiene de la naturaleza humana en ciencias políticas y economía?

La imagen tradicional de la naturaleza humana en ciencias políticas y economía es que 'el hombre es un lobo para el hombre', lo que sugiere que nuestra naturaleza es en realidad desagradable.

¿Por qué el orador considera injusto calificar a la humanidad como desagradable comparándola con un lobo?

El orador considera injusto porque el lobo es un animal muy cooperativo y la humanidad es más cooperativa y empática de lo que generalmente se le reconoce.

¿Cuáles son los dos pilares fundamentales de la moralidad según el orador?

Los dos pilares fundamentales de la moralidad son la reciprocidad, asociada con la justicia y la equidad, y la empatía y la compasión.

¿Cómo evidencian los chimpancés la reciprocidad en un experimento de cooperación?

En un experimento de cooperación, los chimpancés trabajan juntos para traer una caja pesada con comida, lo que muestra su capacidad para cooperar y la reciprocidad al devolver favores.

¿Qué comportamiento de empatía se observa en los elefantes durante un experimento de cooperación?

Los elefantes muestran empatía al sincronizar sus acciones para trabajar juntos en un experimento, y algunos elefantes incluso desarrollan técnicas inteligentes para esperar y no tirar de la cuerda si su compañero no está listo.

¿Cómo se estudia la empatía en chimpancés y cuál es su relación con la contagio de bostezos?

La empatía en chimpancés se estudia presentándoles una cabeza animada que bosteza y observando si el chimpancé bosteza también, lo cual está relacionado con la empatía y se encuentra en muchos mamíferos.

¿Qué comportamiento de consuelo se observa en los chimpancés y cómo se relaciona con la empatía humana?

El comportamiento de consuelo en chimpancés es similar al humano, donde un chimpancé juvenile abraza a uno que perdió una pelea para calmarlo, lo que es una expresión de empatía.

¿Qué reveló el experimento de altruismo con chimpancés y cómo se relaciona con la preocupación por el bienestar de otros?

El experimento de altruismo con chimpancés reveló que ellos eligen tokens que benefician tanto a ellos como a sus compañeros, lo que indica que los chimpancés sienten preocupación por el bienestar de otros miembros de su grupo.

¿Qué descubrieron los investigadores sobre la sensación de equidad en los monos capuchinos y cómo reaccionan ante la inequidad?

Los monos capuchinos mostraron una reacción negativa al recibir una recompensa menos deseable que su compañero, lo que indica que tienen una sensación de equidad y pueden sentirse injustamente tratados.

¿Qué opinión el orador tiene sobre la moralidad evolucionada y cómo se relaciona con la empatía, la reciprocidad y la equidad?

El orador cree en una moralidad evolucionada que incluye ingredientes como la empatía, el consuelo, la tendencia pro-social, la reciprocidad y la sensación de equidad, que se encuentran en otros primates y son fundamentales para la moralidad humana.

Outlines

00:00

🎨 La moralidad y la obra de Hieronymus Bosch

El primer párrafo introduce al narrador, nacido en Den Bosch, y su admiración por el pintor Hieronymus Bosch, quien reflexionaba sobre la sociedad sin influencia religiosa, como se ve en su obra 'El Jardín de las Delicias'. Luego, el narrador comparte su experiencia con chimpancés en un zoológico, descubriendo su naturaleza competitiva y a la vez su capacidad para reconciliación post-combates, lo que desafía la visión de la naturaleza humana como únicamente agresiva y competitiva.

05:08

🤝 La cooperación y reciprocidad en los animales

Este párrafo explora el concepto de cooperación y reciprocidad en chimpancés y elefantes a través de experimentos. Los chimpancés muestran entendimiento de la cooperación al trabajar juntos para obtener comida, incluso cuando uno de ellos ya ha sido alimentado. Los elefantes demuestran una comprensión avanzada al realizar tareas de manera coordinada, aunque también se observan casos de 'sobreescritura' en el protocolo experimental, evidenciando su inteligencia y adaptabilidad.

10:09

🐵 Empatía y consuelo en chimpancés

El tercer párrafo se enfoca en el estudio de la empatía, definiendo su capacidad de entendimiento y compartición de emociones. Se muestran ejemplos de consuelo en chimpancés, que se asemejan a las expresiones humanas de apoyo emocional. Además, se describe un experimento que cuestiona si los chimpancés tienen una verdadera preocupación por el bienestar de otros, desafiando la creencia de que solo los humanos poseen esta capacidad.

15:10

🍇 La sensación de equidad en monos capuchinos

El último párrafo narra un experimento que demostró que los monos capuchinos rechazan recibir recompensas inferiores en comparación con sus compañeros, mostrando una reacción al感知 de inequidad. Este hallazgo desafía las nociones tradicionales de la moralidad y la equidad como conceptos complejos exclusivos del ser humano, y sugiere que estos sentimientos pueden tener raíces evolutivamente antiguas.

📚 Conclusión sobre la moralidad evolucionada

El narrador concluye que la moralidad es un constructo evolutivo, y aunque es más compleja de lo que se ha discutido, no podría existir sin ingredientes como la empatía, la consolación, la tendencia pro-social, la reciprocidad y la sensación de equidad, que se encuentran en otros primates. Agradece a la audiencia por su atención y se cierra el discurso con una reflexión sobre la posibilidad de construir una moralidad desde abajo, sin la necesidad de dioses o religión.

Keywords

💡Hieronymus Bosch

Jerónimo Bosh fue un famoso pintor del siglo XV, conocido por sus obras que reflejan la moralidad y la religión de su tiempo. En el video, se menciona que Bosh se cuestionaba qué sucedería con la sociedad si la influencia religiosa disminuyera, lo cual es paralelo a la exploración del hablante sobre la moralidad sin la religión.

💡Moralidad

La moralidad se refiere a las normas y principios que rigen el comportamiento humano en una sociedad. En el video, se discute cómo la moralidad puede existir sin la influencia de la religión y cómo se manifiesta en seres humanos y animales, como se ve en el comportamiento de los chimpancés y los elefantes.

💡Chimpancés

Los chimpancés son un tipo de primates que, según el video, muestran comportamientos que sugieren la existencia de una forma de moralidad, como la reconciliación después de peleas y la cooperación en tareas, lo que desafía la visión de que los animales son principalmente agresivos y competitivos.

💡Cooperación

La cooperación es el acto de trabajar juntas para lograr un objetivo común. En el video, se muestra cómo chimpancés y elefantes cooperan en experimentos para alcanzar una recompensa, evidenciando un comportamiento que va más allá del simple instinto de supervivencia.

💡Reciprocidad

La reciprocidad es el intercambio mutuo de favores o beneficios. En el contexto del video, se menciona que los animales, como los chimpancés, pueden mostrar reciprocidad, lo que implica una comprensión de justicia y equidad en sus interacciones.

💡Empatía

La empatía es la capacidad de comprender y compartir los sentimientos de otro. El video explora cómo la empatía es fundamental para la moralidad, y cómo se manifiesta en el comportamiento de los animales, como el consuelo que un chimpancés ofrece a otro después de una pelea.

💡Altruismo

El altruismo es el acto de ayudar a otros sin esperar nada a cambio. En el video, se relata un experimento que sugiere que los chimpancés pueden actuar de manera altruista, preocupándose por el bienestar de otros miembros de su grupo.

💡Justicia

La justicia se refiere a la idea de que todos deben ser tratados de manera equitativa. En el video, se discute un experimento con monos capuchinos que muestra una reacción negativa a la inequidad, lo que indica una percepción básica de justicia entre animales.

💡Equidad

La equidad es similar a la justicia, pero tiende a enfocarse más en la equidad en las decisiones y en la distribución de recursos. El video presenta un estudio que muestra que los monos capuchinos tienen una comprensión básica de la equidad, rechazando un trato desigual en un experimento.

💡Sincronización

La sincronización es la alineación de acciones o eventos para que ocurran juntas. En el video, se sugiere que la sincronización es una parte importante del mecanismo de empatía, como se ve en la contagio de bostezos entre humanos y en la cooperación entre animales.

💡Consuelo

El consuelo es el acto de aliviar el sufrimiento emocional de otro. En el video, se describe cómo los chimpancés pueden consolar a otros miembros de su grupo después de una pelea, un comportamiento que muestra una profunda empatía y conexión emocional.

Highlights

The speaker's fondness for Hieronymus Bosch and his contemplation of morality in a society with less or no religion.

The interpretation of 'The Garden of Earthly Delights' as a representation of humanity before or without the Fall.

Chimpanzees' power-hungry nature and the author's book on the subject.

The discovery of chimpanzees reconciling after fights, challenging the prevailing view of competition and aggression.

Bonobos using sex for reconciliation, highlighting the principle of mending valuable relationships post-conflict.

The shift in perception of human nature from competitive and aggressive to cooperative and empathic.

The pillars of morality identified as reciprocity and empathy, essential to human morality.

Experiments on cooperation in chimpanzees and elephants, showcasing their understanding of teamwork.

Elephants' intelligence in devising alternative techniques during cooperation tests.

The concept of empathy in animals, including emotional and cognitive channels.

Yawn contagion as a sign of empathy, present in humans and some animals.

Consolation behavior in chimpanzees as an example of empathy-driven actions.

The experiment on altruism in chimpanzees, challenging the assumption of human uniqueness in caring for others' welfare.

Chimpanzees' preference for pro-social behavior over selfishness in token-based food reward scenarios.

The impact of partner behavior on chimpanzees' choices in pro-social scenarios.

The fairness study with capuchin monkeys, revealing their sense of equity and reaction to inequity.

The philosophical and academic debate triggered by the fairness study, questioning the uniqueness of human morality.

The speaker's belief in an evolved morality supported by empathy, pro-social tendencies, reciprocity, and fairness found in primates.

Transcripts

I was born in Den Bosch,

where the painter Hieronymus Bosch named himself after.

And I've always been very fond of this painter

who lived and worked in the 15th century.

And what is interesting about him in relation to morality

is that he lived at a time where religion's influence was waning,

and he was sort of wondering, I think,

what would happen with society if there was no religion

or if there was less religion.

And so he painted this famous painting, "The Garden of Earthly Delights,"

which some have interpreted as being humanity before the Fall,

or being humanity without any Fall at all.

And so it makes you wonder,

what would happen if we hadn't tasted the fruit of knowledge, so to speak,

and what kind of morality would we have.

Much later, as a student, I went to a very different garden,

a zoological garden in Arnhem where we keep chimpanzees.

This is me at an early age with a baby chimpanzee.

(Laughter)

And I discovered there

that the chimpanzees are very power-hungry and wrote a book about it.

And at that time the focus in a lot of animal research

was on aggression and competition.

I painted a whole picture of the animal kingdom

and humanity included, was that deep down we are competitors, we are aggressive,

we are all out for our own profit, basically.

This is the launch of my book.

I'm not sure how well the chimpanzees read it,

but they surely seemed interested in the book.

(Laughter)

Now in the process of doing all this work

on power and dominance and aggression and so on,

I discovered that chimpanzees reconcile after fights.

And so what you see here is two males who have had a fight.

They ended up in a tree, and one of them holds out a hand to the other.

And about a second after I took the picture,

they came together in the fork of the tree

and kissed and embraced each other.

And this is very interesting

because at the time, everything was about competition and aggression,

so it wouldn't make any sense.

The only thing that matters is that you win or you lose.

But why reconcile after a fight? That doesn't make any sense.

This is the way bonobos do it. Bonobos do everything with sex.

And so they also reconcile with sex.

But the principle is exactly the same.

The principle is that you have a valuable relationship

that is damaged by conflict, so you need to do something about it.

So my whole picture of the animal kingdom, and including humans also,

started to change at that time.

So we have this image in political science, economics, the humanities,

the philosophy for that matter, that man is a wolf to man.

And so deep down, our nature is actually nasty.

I think it's a very unfair image for the wolf.

The wolf is, after all, a very cooperative animal.

And that's why many of you have a dog at home,

which has all these characteristics also.

And it's really unfair to humanity,

because humanity is actually much more cooperative and empathic

than given credit for.

So I started getting interested in those issues

and studying that in other animals.

So these are the pillars of morality.

If you ask anyone, "What is morality based on?"

these are the two factors that always come out.

One is reciprocity,

and associated with it is a sense of justice and a sense of fairness.

And the other one is empathy and compassion.

And human morality is more than this, but if you would remove these two pillars,

there would be not much remaining, I think.

So they're absolutely essential.

So let me give you a few examples here.

This is a very old video from the Yerkes Primate Center,

where they trained chimpanzees to cooperate.

So this is already about a hundred years ago

that we were doing experiments on cooperation.

What you have here is two young chimpanzees who have a box,

and the box is too heavy for one chimp to pull in.

And of course, there's food on the box.

Otherwise they wouldn't be pulling so hard.

And so they're bringing in the box.

And you can see that they're synchronized.

You can see that they work together, they pull at the same moment.

It's already a big advance over many other animals

who wouldn't be able to do that.

Now you're going to get a more interesting picture,

because now one of the two chimps has been fed.

So one of the two is not really interested in the task anymore.

(Laughter)

(Laughter)

(Laughter)

[- and sometimes appears to convey its wishes and meanings by gestures.]

Now look at what happens at the very end of this.

(Laughter)

He takes basically everything.

(Laughter)

There are two interesting parts about this.

One is that the chimp on the right

has a full understanding he needs the partner --

so a full understanding of the need for cooperation.

The second one is that the partner is willing to work

even though he's not interested in the food.

Why would that be?

Well, that probably has to do with reciprocity.

There's actually a lot of evidence in primates and other animals

that they return favors.

He will get a return favor at some point in the future.

And so that's how this all operates.

We do the same task with elephants.

Now, it's very dangerous to work with elephants.

Another problem with elephants is that you cannot make an apparatus

that is too heavy for a single elephant.

Now you can probably make it,

but it's going to be a pretty clumsy apparatus, I think.

And so what we did in that case --

we do these studies in Thailand for Josh Plotnik --

is we have an apparatus around which there is a rope, a single rope.

And if you pull on this side of the rope, the rope disappears on the other side.

So two elephants need to pick it up at exactly the same time, and pull.

Otherwise nothing is going to happen and the rope disappears.

The first tape you're going to see

is two elephants who are released together arrive at the apparatus.

The apparatus is on the left, with food on it.

And so they come together, they arrive together,

they pick it up together, and they pull together.

So it's actually fairly simple for them.

There they are.

So that's how they bring it in.

But now we're going to make it more difficult.

Because the purpose of this experiment

is to see how well they understand cooperation.

Do they understand that as well as the chimps, for example?

What we do in the next step is we release one elephant before the other

and that elephant needs to be smart enough

to stay there and wait and not pull at the rope --

because if he pulls at the rope, it disappears and the whole test is over.

Now this elephant does something illegal that we did not teach it.

But it shows the understanding he has,

because he puts his big foot on the rope,

stands on the rope and waits there for the other,

and then the other is going to do all the work for him.

So it's what we call freeloading.

(Laughter)

But it shows the intelligence that the elephants have.

They developed several of these alternative techniques

that we did not approve of, necessarily.

(Laughter)

So the other elephant is now coming ...

and is going to pull it in.

Now look at the other; it doesn't forget to eat, of course.

(Laughter)

This was the cooperation and reciprocity part.

Now something on empathy.

Empathy is my main topic at the moment, of research.

And empathy has two qualities:

One is the understanding part of it.

This is just a regular definition:

the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

And the emotional part.

Empathy has basically two channels: One is the body channel,

If you talk with a sad person,

you're going to adopt a sad expression and a sad posture,

and before you know it, you feel sad.

And that's sort of the body channel of emotional empathy,

which many animals have.

Your average dog has that also.

That's why people keep mammals in the home

and not turtles or snakes or something like that,

who don't have that kind of empathy.

And then there's a cognitive channel,

which is more that you can take the perspective of somebody else.

And that's more limited.

Very few animals, I think elephants and apes, can do that kind of thing.

So synchronization,

which is part of that whole empathy mechanism,

is a very old one in the animal kingdom.

In humans, of course, we can study that with yawn contagion.

Humans yawn when others yawn.

And it's related to empathy.

It activates the same areas in the brain.

Also, we know that people who have a lot of yawn contagion

are highly empathic.

People who have problems with empathy, such as autistic children,

they don't have yawn contagion.

So it is connected.

And we study that in our chimpanzees by presenting them with an animated head.

So that's what you see on the upper-left, an animated head that yawns.

And there's a chimpanzee watching,

an actual real chimpanzee watching a computer screen

on which we play these animations.

(Laughter)

So yawn contagion that you're probably all familiar with --

and maybe you're going to start yawning soon now --

is something that we share with other animals.

And that's related to that whole body channel of synchronization

that underlies empathy,

and that is universal in the mammals, basically.

We also study more complex expressions -- This is consolation.

This is a male chimpanzee who has lost a fight and he's screaming,

and a juvenile comes over and puts an arm around him

and calms him down.

That's consolation.

It's very similar to human consolation.

And consolation behavior --

(Laughter)

it's empathy driven.

Actually, the way to study empathy in human children

is to instruct a family member to act distressed,

and then to see what young children do.

And so it is related to empathy,

and that's the kind of expressions we look at.

We also recently published an experiment you may have heard about.

It's on altruism and chimpanzees,

where the question is: Do chimpanzees care about the welfare of somebody else?

And for decades it had been assumed that only humans can do that,

that only humans worry about the welfare of somebody else.

Now we did a very simple experiment.

We do that on chimpanzees that live in Lawrenceville,

in the field station of Yerkes.

And so that's how they live.

And we call them into a room and do experiments with them.

In this case, we put two chimpanzees side-by-side,

and one has a bucket full of tokens, and the tokens have different meanings.

One kind of token feeds only the partner who chooses,

the other one feeds both of them.

So this is a study we did with Vicki Horner.

And here, you have the two color tokens.

So they have a whole bucket full of them.

And they have to pick one of the two colors.

You will see how that goes.

So if this chimp makes the selfish choice,

which is the red token in this case,

he needs to give it to us,

we pick it up, we put it on a table where there's two food rewards,

but in this case, only the one on the right gets food.

The one on the left walks away because she knows already

that this is not a good test for her.

Then the next one is the pro-social token.

So the one who makes the choices -- that's the interesting part here --

for the one who makes the choices, it doesn't really matter.

So she gives us now a pro-social token and both chimps get fed.

So the one who makes the choices always gets a reward.

So it doesn't matter whatsoever.

And she should actually be choosing blindly.

But what we find is that they prefer the pro-social token.

So this is the 50 percent line, that's the random expectation.

And especially if the partner draws attention to itself, they choose more.

And if the partner puts pressure on them --

so if the partner starts spitting water and intimidating them --

then the choices go down.

(Laughter)

It's as if they're saying,

"If you're not behaving, I'm not going to be pro-social today."

And this is what happens without a partner,

when there's no partner sitting there.

So we found that the chimpanzees do care about the well-being of somebody else --

especially, these are other members of their own group.

So the final experiment that I want to mention to you

is our fairness study.

And so this became a very famous study.

And there are now many more,

because after we did this about 10 years ago,

it became very well-known.

And we did that originally with capuchin monkeys.

And I'm going to show you the first experiment that we did.

It has now been done with dogs and with birds

and with chimpanzees.

But with Sarah Brosnan, we started out with capuchin monkeys.

So what we did is we put two capuchin monkeys side-by-side.

Again, these animals, live in a group, they know each other.

We take them out of the group, put them in a test chamber.

And there's a very simple task that they need to do.

And if you give both of them cucumber for the task,

the two monkeys side-by-side,

they're perfectly willing to do this 25 times in a row.

So cucumber, even though it's only really water in my opinion,

but cucumber is perfectly fine for them.

Now if you give the partner grapes --

the food preferences of my capuchin monkeys

correspond exactly with the prices in the supermarket --

and so if you give them grapes -- it's a far better food --

then you create inequity between them.

So that's the experiment we did.

Recently, we videotaped it with new monkeys

who'd never done the task,

thinking that maybe they would have a stronger reaction,

and that turned out to be right.

The one on the left is the monkey who gets cucumber.

The one on the right is the one who gets grapes.

The one who gets cucumber --

note that the first piece of cucumber is perfectly fine.

The first piece she eats.

Then she sees the other one getting grape, and you will see what happens.

So she gives a rock to us. That's the task.

And we give her a piece of cucumber and she eats it.

The other one needs to give a rock to us.

And that's what she does.

And she gets a grape ...

and eats it.

The other one sees that.

She gives a rock to us now,

gets, again, cucumber.

(Laughter)

(Laughter ends)

She tests a rock now against the wall.

She needs to give it to us.

And she gets cucumber again.

(Laughter)

So this is basically the Wall Street protest that you see here.

(Laughter)

(Applause)

I still have two minutes left --

let me tell you a funny story about this.

This study became very famous and we got a lot of comments,

especially anthropologists, economists, philosophers.

They didn't like this at all.

Because they had decided in their minds, I believe,

that fairness is a very complex issue, and that animals cannot have it.

And so one philosopher even wrote us

that it was impossible that monkeys had a sense of fairness

because fairness was invented during the French Revolution.

(Laughter)

And another one wrote a whole chapter

saying that he would believe it had something to do with fairness,

if the one who got grapes would refuse the grapes.

Now the funny thing is that Sarah Brosnan, who's been doing this with chimpanzees,

had a couple of combinations of chimpanzees

where, indeed, the one who would get the grape

would refuse the grape until the other guy also got a grape.

So we're getting very close to the human sense of fairness.

And I think philosophers need to rethink their philosophy for a while.

So let me summarize.

I believe there's an evolved morality.

I think morality is much more than what I've been talking about,

but it would be impossible without these ingredients

that we find in other primates,

which are empathy and consolation,

pro-social tendencies and reciprocity and a sense of fairness.

And so we work on these particular issues

to see if we can create a morality from the bottom up, so to speak,

without necessarily god and religion involved,

and to see how we can get to an evolved morality.

And I thank you for your attention.

(Applause)