OpenBooks: The Internet Made Me Buy Lit
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful panel discussion, Kerry Bernal, author and CBeebies personality, hosts a conversation with industry professionals Elle Jones, Kerry English, and Mubarak Alma Barrack about the digital landscape of book publishing. They delve into the impact of the internet on book discovery, the importance of metadata and social media for publishers and booksellers, and the power of community in the book industry. The panelists share their experiences, the role of data in marketing, and offer advice for aspiring professionals, highlighting the dynamic opportunities within the digital book world.
Takeaways
- 📚 The importance of digital presence in the book industry is highlighted, with online platforms and social media playing a significant role in book discovery and promotion.
- 🌐 Metadata is crucial for online visibility, encompassing all elements seen on websites like Amazon or bookshop.org, which influence consumer decisions.
- 🎥 Video content and social media channels, such as YouTube and TikTok, are vital for engaging with audiences and showcasing books in the digital landscape.
- 💻 Data analysis is essential for understanding audience demographics and preferences, as well as for optimizing marketing strategies in the book industry.
- 📈 The use of data can inform publishers about which books to promote, how to engage readers, and can even revive interest in older titles through targeted marketing.
- 🛍️ Bookshop.org supports independent bookstores by directing a portion of sales to them, emphasizing the value of community and local businesses in the book industry.
- 👩🎨 The role of a book cover as a 'face' of the book is underscored, with its impact on marketing, recognition, and sales.
- 🔍 The script emphasizes the value of internships and continuous learning in the creative industry, as well as the importance of pursuing one's passion despite initial discouragement.
- 📝 The significance of reading widely and staying engaged with the book community is stressed for anyone aspiring to work in the book industry.
- 💡 Creativity and innovation within digital roles in publishing are encouraged, as they offer flexibility and opportunities to explore new ideas and passions.
- 🔑 The script suggests that persistence, research, and networking are key to breaking into the book industry and developing a career path.
Q & A
What is the event 'Internet Made Me Buy It' about?
-The event 'Internet Made Me Buy It' is part of Open Books and focuses on the digital landscape and the future of publishing, exploring the influence of the internet on book discovery and pop culture.
Who is Kerry Bernal and what are her roles?
-Kerry Bernal is the author of 'Wilder the Midnight' and other titles. She is also known for her appearances on CBeebies. In this event, she is the host, facilitating the conversation with professionals in the book industry.
What is the significance of metadata in the publishing industry according to Elle Jones?
-Metadata is crucial as it includes all the information seen on online retail websites like Amazon or bookshop.org, which is essential for book discoverability and online presence.
What is the role of Kerry English at bookshop.org?
-Kerry English is the Marketing and Editorial Manager at bookshop.org, an online platform that supports independent bookshops by directing a portion of the sale price to them.
How does Mubarak Alma Barrack describe his role in brand and digital marketing?
-Mubarak Alma Barrack is the Head of Brand and Digital Marketing at Penguin Michael Joseph. His role involves managing partnerships, brand presentation, messaging, and marketing strategies across digital platforms.
What advice does Mubarak give to those aspiring to work in the creative industry?
-Mubarak suggests that one should follow their passion and not be intimidated by the industry. He emphasizes the importance of internships and continuous learning in the ever-evolving field of digital marketing.
Why is the digital presence of publishers and booksellers important for book promotion?
-Digital presence is vital as it allows publishers and booksellers to connect directly with readers, participate in online communities, and leverage social media platforms to create new bestsellers and revive interest in older titles.
What is the role of bookshop.org in supporting independent bookstores?
-Bookshop.org acts as an online platform for buying books that supports independent bookstores by ensuring a significant portion of each sale goes to these local businesses, helping them compete in the predominantly online book market.
How can young people interested in the book industry leverage social media?
-Young people can use social media to engage with the book community, share their passion for reading, and demonstrate their knowledge and interest in books, which can be beneficial when applying for roles in the industry.
What is the importance of data in the book industry?
-Data is important for understanding audience demographics, tracking the performance of marketing campaigns, and making informed decisions about publishing and promoting books.
What are some of the challenges and opportunities in the digital roles within the book industry?
-Challenges include keeping up with rapidly changing digital trends and technologies. Opportunities lie in the ability to experiment with new ideas, engage with online communities, and influence publishing decisions based on digital insights.
Outlines
🎤 Introduction to the 'Internet Made Me Buy It' Event
The script opens with a warm welcome to the 'Internet Made Me Buy It' event, part of the Open Books series. Kerry Bernal, the author and host, introduces herself and sets the stage for a discussion on the digital landscape of the book industry. She emphasizes the importance of the internet and social media in finding the next book to read and introduces the panelists, each with expertise in different areas of book publishing and marketing.
🔍 The Role of Digital in Book Industry - Metadata and Social Media
This paragraph delves into the specifics of digital roles within the book industry, with a focus on metadata and social media. Elle Jones, head of metadata and video at Pan Macmillan Publishers, explains the importance of metadata in online retail and her responsibilities for social media channels. The discussion highlights how digital platforms are vital for connecting with readers and influencing publishing decisions based on audience engagement.
📚 Bookshop.org's Mission and Digital Marketing Strategies
Kerry English, the marketing and editorial manager for bookshop.org, discusses the platform's mission to support independent bookstores through online sales. She emphasizes the significance of digital marketing in creating a community around books and the importance of being visible where readers are most active online. The conversation touches on the role of bookshop.org in curating lists and recommendations to surface both new and older book titles.
🌐 The Impact of Digital on Book Promotion and Community Building
The panelists explore how digital platforms influence book promotion and the formation of book-loving communities. They discuss the resurgence of older titles through social media and the importance of being present where book lovers are active. The conversation also covers the idea that young people can contribute to the industry by engaging in book discussions online, even before having a formal career in it.
📊 Understanding Data's Role in Book Marketing
Mubarak Alma Barrack, head of brand and digital marketing, discusses the concept of data in the book industry, covering audience demographics and advertising performance. He explains how data helps in creating effective marketing campaigns and emphasizes the balance between creativity and analysis in marketing strategies. The paragraph also touches on the importance of not getting lost in data and maintaining a broad perspective on marketing efforts.
🎨 The Significance of Book Covers and Data in Email Marketing
The discussion continues with the importance of book covers as the 'face' of a book and the role of data in email marketing. Elle Jones highlights the power of newsletters in engaging with an audience that is already passionate about books. The paragraph also touches on the importance of recognizing and leveraging the engaged community that subscribes to such newsletters.
🚀 Future Opportunities in the Digital Book Industry
Looking ahead, the panelists consider the future of the digital book industry, with a focus on the growth of ebooks, audiobooks, and the importance of social media platforms like Book Talk. They predict an increase in online book discovery and the continued growth of digital communities around books, emphasizing the need for publishers and booksellers to adapt to these trends.
💡 Insights into the Roles and Surprises in Book Industry Marketing
Mubarak shares insights into his role, highlighting the surprising extent of activities that constitute marketing in the book industry. He discusses the blurred lines between PR, press, and marketing, and how seemingly organic content can be part of a larger marketing strategy. The paragraph encourages aspiring professionals to deconstruct the marketing behind the books they read and to consider the various touchpoints that influence their reading choices.
🛠️ Skills and Advice for Aspiring Digital Professionals in the Book Industry
The panelists offer advice for young people interested in digital roles within the book industry. They stress the importance of reading widely, maintaining an analytical mindset, and staying imaginative. The conversation also includes practical tips for job applications, such as not being intimidated by job descriptions, researching roles, and reaching out to professionals in the field for insights.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Metadata
💡Digital Landscape
💡Book Industry
💡Social Media
💡Bookshop.org
💡Indie Bookshops
💡Digital Marketing
💡Community
💡Book Talk
💡Data
💡Careers in the Book Industry
Highlights
Introduction to the 'Internet Made Me Buy It' event, part of Open Books, hosted by Kerry Bernal.
Kerry Bernal is an author and a familiar face from CBeebies, setting the stage for a conversation on digital influence in the book industry.
Elle Jones introduces herself as Head of Metadata and Video at Pan Macmillan Publishers, explaining the role of metadata in online retail.
Kerry English describes her role as Marketing and Editorial Manager for bookshop.org, emphasizing support for independent bookstores.
Mubarak Alma Barrack discusses his position as Head of Brand and Digital Marketing at Penguin Michael Joseph, detailing the scope of his responsibilities.
Mubarak shares his journey from studying pharmacy to breaking into the creative industry through internships.
The panel discusses the importance of digital roles in publishing, highlighting their direct link to readers and influence on publishing decisions.
Elle Jones talks about the resurgence of older titles on platforms like TikTok, showcasing the power of digital communities in book discovery.
Kerry English emphasizes the significance of digital presence in the book industry, particularly the role of bookshop.org in connecting readers with indie bookstores.
The panelists discuss the value of having a book talk platform for young book lovers, suggesting it as a way to engage with the industry early on.
Mubarak explains the concept of data in the book industry, discussing its role in audience demographics and advertising effectiveness.
Elle Jones highlights the importance of email marketing and data capture in building a community of engaged readers.
Kerry English reflects on the revolutionary impact of bookshop.org and its growth, particularly during the pandemic.
The panel explores future opportunities in the book industry, focusing on the growth of digital platforms and social media's role in book discovery.
Elle Jones shares her enjoyment of her dual role in metadata and video, appreciating the flexibility and creativity it allows.
Mubarak surprises listeners by revealing the extensive activities that fall under marketing, often unseen by the public.
Kerry Bernal concludes the session with advice for aspiring professionals in the book industry, emphasizing persistence, research, and networking.
Transcripts
hello and welcome to the internet made
me buy lit which I just think is such a
brilliant and Jazzy and fun title this
event is part of open books My Name is
Kerry Bernal and I am the author of
Wilder the midnight and some other
titles and depending on your age you may
also recognize me from my ears on
CBeebies
today I'm delighted to be hosting a
conversation with three very talented
people across the book industry
just before we get started in the spirit
of inclusion I'm going to audio describe
myself so I am a white woman I'm in my
40s I've got a lot of makeup on because
I'm quite tired I'm trying to get up
um I identify as having a disability I'm
at home at the moment I've got long
blonde hair and I've got a lovely
background of butterflies behind me
let me tell you a little bit about open
Books open books will be bringing you a
wonderful and exciting selection of
online events and short videos
introducing you to careers within the
book industry it will show you how you
could put your interests passions and
creative skills to work whether it be in
art and design business or worldwide
travel which sounds amazing I would and
languages we'll also be diving deeper
into some of the jobs in the book
industry you might already know about
such as working as an editor or in areas
like marketing and publicity
this panel the internet made me buy it
is all about the digital landscape and
the future of publishing we all know
that the internet has a huge influence
on us and on pop culture and with the
rise of book talk which we all
absolutely love it's fair to say that
there has never been a better time to
find your next read online or via social
media there are so many exciting
developments in the digital space and in
this event we're going to take a deep
dive into exploring what it's like to be
working in this area so I'm really
pleased to be being joined by three
fantastic people who know a lot more
about this than me and I'm going to
start by asking each of them to
introduce themselves so L let's start
with you
hi everyone
um my name is Elle Jones and I am head
of metadata and a video at Panera Millen
Publishers house
um metadata is a rather boring term
um that kind of describes everything
that you will see on a website like a
online retail website like Amazon for
example or bookshop.org it's everything
that you see on that website it's all
sorts of behind the scenes stuff as well
and with video I'm in charge of our
YouTube channels and our Tick Tock
Channel which is really exciting
and do audio describe myself I'm a woman
in her 30s a white woman in her 30s with
long blonde hair sitting in a rather
boring little cubby hole in her office
it's actually not that boring and I yes
well done for audio describing yourself
and I think it was really good to get
that clarification around sort of meta
because that's yeah that term can mean
different things and it really can so
um I'm learning a lot today as well and
also where you are isn't that boring it
looks it's so exciting to me or to
someone who doesn't work in the book
industry
um let's come to Kerry next
yeah so hi I'm Kerry English I'm the
marketing and editorial manager for
bookshop.org
um to audio describe myself I am a white
woman in her 30s I'm wearing uh a black
polo neck jumper and I've got a blonde
Fringe and an orange cushion behind me
um should have a wall of books behind me
but um I don't today
um so bookshop.org just to quickly
introduce is
um an online place for buying books
um it supports independent bookshops so
it's instead of buying books from Amazon
or other online Outlets you can buy them
from bookshop.org and a big portion of
the sale price goes to Indie bookshops
so two-thirds of books are bought online
today and we want a big chunk of that
market to go to bricks and mortar
bookshops
we absolutely do I mean I think we all
love Indie bookshops and you you just
can't underestimate the power and
loveliness and warmth of having a local
Indie so that's amazing to hear about
and um yeah I'll certainly be checking
them out very soon
um Mubarak let's come to you you can
introduce yourself and tell us all about
you uh my name is Mubarak Alma Barrack
I'm the head of brand in digital
marketing at penguin Michael Joseph
um to audio describe myself I'm a black
man in my 30s I'm wearing a white shirt
and I have a
very boring I think the most boring
background of us all a great background
behind me
um so my role uh as head of Brandon and
digital marketing
on the brand side that's kind of
everything that you would think of when
you think of a brand so sometimes
um that's the Partnerships that we do
sometimes it's the logo how we present
ourselves what our messaging is
um as as as an imprint and then on the
marketing side it's everything from Paid
advertising the kind of advice that you
see on social media to content on social
media and um and everything on on
digital platforms
okay so that's actually quite a lot
um so it'd be great perhaps to just
unpack that a little bit more
um and really find out how you got
started Mubarak have you always wanted
to work in the book industry how did you
get started on this particular career
path
um so for me uh growing up the creative
industry was more of a
a pipe dream
um I was kind of
taught from various people from a young
age that you know if you want to have a
successful life you want to do a
profession in something like science or
engineering or something like that so I
was actually studying
um pharmacy in University
um when I decided to make a break for it
and and you know enter the creative
industry I was interested in publishing
um and I got put in touch with creative
access who offered internships
um and I started my internship at Pam
McMillan I learned a lot there and then
I got a permanent role there and then
from there kind of onwards I kind of
continued that journey of learning and
working and that really helped in terms
of marketing especially digital
marketing because it's one of those
things that changes
every year or every update or you know
very very quickly so that kind of nature
of learning and working kind of really
helped with that
so when you were a young person I'm just
really interested uh you know to to
briefly touch upon when you kind of you
turned and really decided to follow your
heart when you were you know perhaps 14
or 19 you know the age of some of our
audience did you really imagine yourself
working in Creative Industries or or had
that not crossed the mind at that point
uh it crossed my mind
um and then I was told a good intention
that it's something that's kind of very
difficult
um to get into so I should kind of look
for something that's kind of safer and
more secure and my grades were good in
terms of science and math so I was
headed into that direction
um and then in terms of why I made a
break for it
um I think it's got it it's amazing yeah
yeah I think it's also going to do with
the the nature of work in in Pharmacy I
just found myself
um I enjoyed studying but I found myself
kind of bored with that
um and then it was just a case of me
kind of
looking searching researching online
seeing if there was you know what
options were really there
um and the internship program really
really helped with that
um yeah
that that's really
um encouraging to hear uh and I you know
and I'm sure lots of the people
listening or tuning in will be really uh
motivated to find out about you know
brilliant internships that can support
creative career paths and dreams and Al
let's come to you now and I would like
to know why our roles in digital so
important for the book industry how does
digital inform the kind of things that
Publishers and booksellers do how do
they create new best sellers and also
shine a light on older and perhaps less
known but still very much loved titles
I think that digital roles are really
important in publishing because we are a
direct link to the readers because we're
involved with digital communities the
actual people who are talking about
books on their tick tocks on their
Instagram on Twitter on YouTube or
leaving their their reviews on sites
like storygraph and Goodreads we're a
direct we can have a direct conversation
with those people and we can feed back
into people who make decisions about
what books to publish they might want to
know if a book they're considering
buying
that author might for example have a
really big
um social audience they might have a
really popular Instagram Channel but how
often are they actually using it back
are they likely to talk about our book
on their Channel and other things like
that that can be really important
publishing decisions we kind of can help
help be a link between different
departments in the book industry and
also actual reader and in terms of
things like
um helping older titles see see the sun
again
um in addition to a lot of the wonderful
work that book sellers do with
displaying books
um in bookshops
is what we've seen particularly on Tick
Tock is this amazing phenomenon of books
that are are quite a few years old and
haven't had that much promotion or
marketing around them recently really
coming to the fore and again that's
because of these communities
um readers who were maybe yeah maybe
everyone read that book 10 years ago but
there's a whole new batch of people who
have grown up and now want to read those
books there's always fresh audiences for
books and I think that's been really
fascinating when we've seen some
bestsellers that were published quite a
few years ago rising up the charts on
Amazon again I think it's really
exciting
and I I love your description of the
community you know that it's this kind
of very nurturing and warm and
encouraging place which is always how I
found it as an author and I think you've
maybe inspired me to finally join book
talk but we'll see we'll see to be
converted
um Kerry can I ask you a similar
question why do you think that digital
is so important for the book industry
um and how does it really help in terms
of promotion yeah so I'd say that it's
pretty vital everyone's online all the
time that's where we'll live now
um so sort of you have to be visible
um where where people are looking and
where people are sort of passionate
about books it's important to be able to
kind of make the connection and uh just
be be findable and and create spaces
where people can
um talk about books find books and be
and yeah form a kind of a digital
Community really
um that's really where bookshop.org
comes in without sort of forming this
bridge between Publishers and bookshops
and so working with um
with Publishers to say you know show us
the books that you're excited about that
are coming out soon but also show us
what's on your back list so the books
that are from um you know have
previously been published and that's one
of the exciting things about the the
lists uh that we surface so we sort of
surface lists of recommendations from
authors and from uh Bookshop owners
um and from book bloggers tick tockers
across the whole book loving Community
to try and sort of show a breadth of
titles so
um that is a really great way to surface
some of these uh titles that have may
have kind of fallen off the radar
um being where Book Lovers are really
and I suppose especially
um you know I don't need to prompt you
there but especially with the pandemic I
suppose there will have been you know
glorious books that have launched and
perhaps not found their true readership
yet
um so it's it's wonderful to know that
they can still have a platform and sort
of surface as you say which is a lovely
way of describing it I'm just wondering
what your thoughts are on um for any
young person who who you know adores
books you think that it's useful you
know perhaps if you're in your early 20s
to have your own sort of book talk
platform
um so that you can be learning and
feeding into that industry already
perhaps you know before you're even
thinking about having a serious career
absolutely yeah I think that the one
thing that I was always told
um if I wanted to work in any kind of
book industry uh was just a read why
really widely and so that sort of first
Port of Call read as much as you can
um and yeah to be able to talk about
those books and give your opinion on
those books online is brilliant because
any sort of anyone that might be hiring
you can can see that you're genuinely
passionate about uh the books that
you're um talking about or so if you're
going for a role in publishing it's
great to read some of the key books on
their list
um and then yeah sort of showcase them
on your social channels if you can but I
wouldn't say that it's an absolute sort
of must
um because if that's not something you
sort of feel comfortable with if social
isn't the thing that you're sort of
doing a lot of
um to do with books I yeah I don't
necessarily have to go beyond your
comfort zone but absolutely do read as
much as you can and yeah just show your
show your passion for it
I was really beautifully putting I think
you know it's really worthwhile just
um yeah just really stating you don't
have to be on socials actually if you
feel inspired to be and and if that's
where your passion is going you know it
certainly wouldn't hurt but it's as
you've you know already said it's really
not necessary
and Mubarak let's come to you we're
going to be talking about data for a
little bit so what exactly do we mean in
the book industry when we talk about
data and why is it important and how do
can we how can we leverage it how can we
use it
um today it is quite
um a broad term and it can cover
everything from your audience
demographic so she's you know where do
they live how old are they where do they
shop
um to also it can relate to your adverts
directly so for example if you uh on the
receiving end you know you may be
scrolling through Instagram and you get
served an ad
um you may click on it you may just
Breeze past it you may click on it the
second time you're served it but on the
other end you have data around that
advert so you can see how is that advert
performing are people engaging with it
are people clicking through our people
interacting with it and you can compare
different ads to see what it is that's
making that ad work so maybe one ad
um with a certain copy line with a
certain kind of message around the book
um May mean that a lot more people click
on it so know half of the people let's
say that's that's a very high number but
let's just say half the people are are
clicking on it but then you have
something else with a different line
that's maybe a quote instead of a
description about the book and not that
many people click on it so when you look
at that data you can say okay for this
maybe just for this specific book or
maybe for other books
um let's try let's try the more
successful version or you can do
something with visuals maybe there's a
red background and yellow background and
and the other one's more successful so
you can do more ads with that color
palette
um but in terms of the data you have to
especially with marketing you have to
kind of balance the your creativity with
your analytical mind so you want to be
kind of creative and open-minded when
you are creating the ads when you are
creating the the marketing campaign what
is it about this book that really kind
of will connect with these people what
is it about the audience that you know
know that that draws them in and then
you want to be analytical when you're
reviewing what's working and what isn't
working maybe your digital ads just
aren't working at all and that's because
people of of that Community or people or
your audience don't like to interact
with us instead they like to interact
with
um content with Community with more
organic content on tiktok so maybe your
your money is better spent your time is
better spent
um sending
um books to tick tockers or to YouTubers
or to bloggers
um and then you can kind of see so you
have that analytical mind in terms of
your reviewing but you still keep your
creativity in terms of ads
um but data in general is kind of one of
those things that's used as a backdrop
for your campaigns I think it's
important not to get lost in data
um and kind of just you know just
looking right down to just the numbers
and figures and not looking at the
broader picture of a conversation and
the community and and everything else
around your marketing campaign
yeah I completely agree that sometimes
the beta
way of looking at things
um so that it was a lovely reminder that
actually it's yes it is really useful
but you always have to be really Broad
in your approach
um and just one uh last little Point how
important do you think it is to have an
absolutely dazzlingly stunning front
cover for a book I think it's very
important
um I think it's really important shout
out to illustrators then yeah uh I I
think it's really important I mean the
cover is
the
I mean this this may be a bad way of
putting it but in my mind the cover is
is it it's the face of a book like if we
think of a person who we know and who we
like and who we admire when we think of
them we think of their face you know
it's that so the cover is what we're
showing on our adverts the cover is what
people are holding up on Tick Tock the
cover is what you're walking in and
looking for in a Bookshop
um so yeah so the cover is really
important to to to make the book stand
out but also something that's
recognizable
yes the door to the story I guess really
isn't it and all the face as you so
beautifully said
um Elle is there anything you would like
to add uh to the conversation around
data and and why you think it's
important
um I would say that data is quite
essential in terms of what we call email
marketing
so you know maybe you're on a website
and it it says do you want to subscribe
to our newsletter
that creates the small community of
people that you know are already engaged
if someone is signing up to a newsletter
about books they love books they really
do if they're willing to make that
decision so you kind of in a sense have
a really powerful tool at your disposal
so a lot of the time people will try to
build in what's called Data capture into
campaigns where they'll try and get more
people subscribing to email newsletters
because it is so powerful because you
know these people love books it's not
just so sometimes for competitions you
might just get
um entries by people who are called
Compass people who just love
competitions and love to win things they
maybe aren't readers and maybe not that
they don't care
um especially if the prize maybe isn't
maybe the prize isn't a book maybe a
prize is a trip to a city that a book is
set in that sort of distances it away so
you can get more of a risk of people who
aren't that engaged being involved but
if you can get things like newsletters
where it's all about books and you know
that that audience is really engaged and
it's such a powerful tool to have oh
amazing yes I haven't really considered
all of those points so it's it's just
really wonderful to hear about them
um Kerry let's come to you my love
um
so in the time that you've been working
in your specific area what kind of
changes have you noticed and for you
what have been some of the most exciting
developments
well I would say this but I think the
the existence of bookshop.org is is
quite revolutionary in itself so it was
set up in 2019 in the US and then
launched in the UK in 2020 when there
was a pandemic happening so the the
timing was pretty great for book sellers
um in terms of them being supported but
also really great for uh people that
were looking to support independent
bookshops
um online and also get their books in a
kind of convenient way
um so because of that launch and because
of yeah the fact that we sort of now
exist I think that's made a huge
difference to the conversation around
independent bookshops and I think that
um Publishers have always supported
independent bookshops in really
meaningful ways but this has just
created a whole new channel for them to
support and in terms of
um the sort of data and digital side of
things to Elle's Point
um like our newsletter is
um pretty crazy it's got 300 000
subscribers and um those are really
dedicated uh book clubs that are really
plugged into reading about books and
that is an incredibly powerful tool
um so yeah in terms of sort of the
changes and um
uh developments within the industry in
that time I feel quite honored to have
been able to be part of the team that
has
um really spearheaded that kind of
digital movement towards supporting
bookshops in the last couple of years
um so yeah we're just looking to kind of
grow that community
I'm sure you'll have more subscribers
after today
um I'll just come to you with the next
question as well what do you think might
happen in this area in the future are
there new opportunities that you can see
arising
um particularly in connection to social
media or digital roles within the book
world
definitely I think that the whole
movement is is heading this way it has
been for a long time
um I feel like uh there's all sorts of
new technologies that are kind of
getting plugged in as you mentioned book
talks really huge
um so we've just become an official
retailer on book talk so you can
actually buy through bookshop.org on
booktalk and book talkers can talk about
books and link to us but I absolutely
feel like
um yeah it's all about digital
everything is moving that way so in
terms of
um sort of developments I guess that uh
you know ebooks and audio books have
been uh growing with great speed
um over the last few years so I think a
lot more of that will be happening
um and yeah I suppose people will just
become more and more Savvy in terms of
um looking for books online and looking
for new places to to look for them
online
um and yeah hopefully just keep talking
about them sort of on their on their own
socials and uh you know growing the
community that way
well that's super exciting to hear about
book talk and how I would like to come
to you to find out what do you like best
about working in your particular area
and what are some of the challenges
gosh that's a tough one
um I think for me because my role is
quite uh unusual in the sense that I've
kind of got two two hats on I have a
metadata hat on and I have a video hat
on
um and I kind of have that role because
I asked for it I initially started in
metadata and I wanted video I wanted it
so I kind of pursued it and I asked for
it and I said I'm interested in this can
I take on more responsibility here so
what I really enjoy about my role is
that I get that opportunity to be two
different people I can be really
creative and I can also be really like
detailed deep down analytical I can do
both of those things and that kind of
Suits who I am and I really really enjoy
that whereas I think some other roles
maybe maybe more traditional roles in
the book industry they don't get to
switch things up that way so I really
like that about my role
no just it's really encouraging to hear
you say that you actually initiated the
role in a sense and and you asked for
more and you were given that
responsibility and it's you you really
nurtured your creativity and your talent
um with video so do you want to just
talk about how that happened briefly
yeah
um I would say in digital roles in
particular there's a lot more
opportunity I think for flexibility if
someone has a particular interest if
someone in my team has a particular
interest that maybe is slightly outside
of their remit that they they feel
passionately about it then I'm more than
willing to give them that space to
experiment and try new things and their
career paths can grow that way because
in more traditional
um publishing roles there's kind of an
established career path
you know you might go from editorial
assistant to Editor to senior editor
it's kind of blotted out for you and in
newer roles
like in the digital sphere it's not
plotted out there's so much more
opportunity for you to say oh actually I
really care about influencer marketing
I'm really fascinated by this or well I
really love
um writing blog pieces for the website
you know whatever your kind of passion
is there's space for that in digital and
I think you kind of have to chase it
down and maybe you might have to ask a
few times like I did
um but if you can show
that you care about it and that you can
help support other people in roles
similar to that and that you can be
useful teammate to them that can be a
really good way of showing
um that you want to you want to develop
your role in a different path
wonderful
um and Mubarak what might surprise
people about your job
[Music]
what surprises you about it I think I
think what might surprise people about
the job
um particularly people who don't work in
the industry or in marketing
um I'd say it's the amount of activity
that we do that they wouldn't
necessarily think of as marketing
um I mean we're all used to you know
seeing a billboard or seeing an advert
um whether it's on video on demand on on
TV
um on Instagram
[Music]
um and and we tend to kind of think that
we're
Savvy enough to kind of know what you
know what is marketing and what isn't
but there's there's a lot of things for
example let's say for example you go on
YouTube to look up a particular product
or to find out more about a particular
product
um you may skip the ads because you're
not interested in the ads but what
you're actually looking up and and
watching is content marketing whether
it's something that that the person who
creates the product
um paid for or it's something that they
sent the item or whether it's uh or to
that particular YouTuber or Creator or
whether they're you know it's it's
it all of it is is is marketing to to an
extent
um and I think that there's a lot of it
and I think what would help as well for
someone looking to get in in the book
industry and particularly in marketing
is we're thinking about a book try and
kind of deconstruct it you know where
did I first hear about this what is it
about this that piqued my interest what
is it that reinforced it you know was
there a conversation someone had and you
say I've heard a lot about that you know
where did you hear a lot about that and
when you kind of bring all those pieces
in together
all of that is is marketing and and when
we tend to kind of work side by side
with PR and press and a lot of those
lines kind of blurring together so maybe
you hear about something on the radio
and then you see an advert for it and
then you you know someone in your in
your reading group is talking about it
and all of those kind of things feed
into one another until you decide which
book you're gonna buy next and read next
and then you know your decision is made
there
um so yeah I think what would surprise
people is the amount of work that's
involved in in marketing behind the
scenes
it's a really really great advice there
um is there anything else you would
quickly like to add about the kind of
skills that young people might need if
they are interested in digital roles in
the book industry
I would say reading is essential um
regardless of kind of where you want to
work you really want to be reading
um you never have enough time to read
all the books and so make sure that you
don't lose your love of reading trying
to read everything and see what it is
that you like
um
uh there's a lot that you can do I mean
even if you don't I'm not someone who
likes to post a lot on social media but
I do a lot of lurking uh I'm on Tech
talk I'm a lot of things probably a
terrible word for it
um but I'm I'm on Tech talk a lot
um I'm kind of seeing what's posted I'm
seeing kind of the way people connect
with it
um uh on on Instagram as well on YouTube
um and that and I think there's a lot
that you can do before you get a chance
to actually put things into practice so
there's a lot of kind of deconstructing
and reversing engineering with the ads
that you're being served you know how
you're hearing about about the book
um and then in terms of skills in
general I would say an analytical mind
would help
um so kind of keep that part alive
um
you know however that is whether it's
kind of I I YouTube is a really good
source
um especially for things you had no idea
about
um just to get kind of get that top
level understanding oh is there anything
you'd like to add
um I would say stay imaginative uh there
are all sorts of different career paths
available in the book industry and as I
said before you can kind of change and
develop that how you like but also you
can explore new ideas within within
whatever your role may be I find it
really inspirational to see my other
like other colleagues coming up with
amazing ideas that we haven't thought
about new things to try and it keeps
things exciting
yeah that's a really generous and lovely
um reply thank you is there anything you
would like to um add or any seeds of
advice that you would like to give sure
yes I've actually typed out some sort of
top five things to think about
um
um so I applied for tons of jobs
um and the key is like not to don't give
up
um don't be set back too much if you
don't get the job
um don't be intimidated by job
descriptions there's a massive one they
can seem really overly complex and you
can learn a lot on the job like so I
think that was a big one sometimes job
descriptions just seem ridiculously
intimidating so don't be disheartened by
them go go for it anyway
um research the roles you're looking at
read some of the key books as I
mentioned before
um on published websites
um think about skills you already have
from social media to being a good
communicator and in terms of
communication that seems really obvious
but listening and being interested in
other people's roles and their work
makes a huge difference to how you're
received
um and reach out to people in similar
roles you can use LinkedIn or sort of
Social and just say you know would you
mind jumping on a 10 minute Zoom to
explain to me a little bit about
um about this job or about what you do
um people can be sort of amazingly
receptive and
um yeah I think those those are the key
bits of advice that I would give anyone
well thank you they were all absolutely
golden
um and and just really impactful so
thank you for that and a huge thank you
to all of our amazing panelists thank
you so much for joining us today
um if you would like to find out more
about careers in the book industry make
sure to check out one of our open books
online events and of course all of the
videos will be on the website thank you
so much for joining us today and we hope
you have a wonderful best of your day
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