Stock Trading Millionaire Says Forex Is A Scam - Umar Ashraf
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful podcast, renowned trader Omar Ashra shares his trading philosophy and journey, emphasizing the importance of a strong mission and disciplined approach. He discusses the significance of learning from experience, the challenges of maintaining consistency, and the psychological aspects of trading. Ashra also talks about his ventures, including Trad Zella, a trading journal app aimed at empowering traders with data-driven insights and educational resources. His reflections on growth, both personal and professional, reveal a strategic mindset focused on long-term vision and value creation beyond financial success.
Takeaways
- 😀 The importance of having a strong mission is emphasized; success in trading often follows when one is driven by a purpose beyond just making money.
- 💰 A trader's reputation is built not just on profitability, but also on demonstrating value and proof of their trading strategies.
- 📈 The speaker reflects on the significance of transparency in the trading community, advocating for showing both successes and failures to build trust.
- 🧠 Mental capital is as crucial as financial capital in trading; losses can impact confidence and the ability to execute trades effectively.
- 🤔 The necessity of a systematic approach to trading is highlighted, as relying purely on luck or momentary judgment can lead to inconsistent results.
- 🔄 The idea of 'refining the game plan' is introduced, where traders should continually assess and adjust their strategies based on market feedback.
- 🚫 The potential pitfalls of public trading are discussed, including the psychological impact of audience reactions on a trader's performance.
- 🏆 The pursuit of becoming a better trader is likened to an athletic pursuit, where the goal is not just financial gain but achieving a high level of proficiency.
- 🤝 Networking in trading is not just about making connections but about offering value and learning from others who are at a similar or higher level of success.
- 🛠 The development of a trading tool, Trad Zella, is driven by a mission to empower traders with data and education, rather than just financial gain.
- 🏁 The concept of 'resetting' after each trading day or period is presented as a way to maintain objectivity and prevent complacency in trading.
Q & A
What is the significance of having a strong mission in trading according to the speaker?
-The speaker believes that a strong mission is essential because it attracts money even when you don't actively seek it. It's about having a clear goal and purpose that drives success in trading.
How does Omar define a 'bad trade' even if it results in profit?
-Omar considers a trade as 'bad' if it doesn't fit his game plan, playbook, or predefined criteria, regardless of the outcome. Even if it makes money, it's written off as bad because it lacks a systematic approach.
What does Omar mean by 'mental capital' and why is it important?
-Mental capital refers to the confidence, ability to execute, and trust in one's trading strategies. Losing mental capital after a significant loss can be detrimental as it affects future trading decisions and performance.
What is the importance of transparency and proof in building a brand in the trading industry according to the speaker?
-Transparency and proof are crucial for credibility. The speaker emphasizes that unless one has 'skin in the game', their opinions or advice on trading matters may not hold much weight. Demonstrating personal success through proof strengthens the brand.
How does Omar approach the learning process in trading?
-Omar believes in learning through experience and by putting theory into action. He suggests that understanding what works and what doesn't through personal experience is more valuable than just following others' advice.
What is the role of repetition or 'reps' in Omar's trading strategy?
-Repetition helps Omar refine his trading skills and make them second nature. It reduces hesitation and emotional interference during execution, leading to better trading decisions.
How does Omar handle the public scrutiny that comes with being a well-known figure in the trading space?
-Omar has learned to tune out external opinions, focusing on his own trading performance and personal growth. He doesn't let compliments or criticisms affect his trading decisions.
What is the significance of the 'reset' mentality in Omar's trading philosophy?
-The reset mentality allows Omar to maintain a clean slate daily, avoiding complacency after good days and quickly moving on from bad days. It's about consistently performing and not relying on past successes.
What is Omar's view on the role of luck in trading?
-While acknowledging that luck can play a part in individual trades, Omar emphasizes that long-term success in trading requires a systematic approach and consistent strategy execution.
How does Omar manage the risk in his trades?
-Omar manages risk by focusing on the amount he's willing to lose based on his account size and the trade specifics. He believes in risking an appropriate amount and being prepared for the outcome, whether it's a win or a loss.
What lessons has Omar learned from his biggest trading loss in 2020?
-The 2020 loss taught Omar the importance of maintaining control over risk, not being swayed by market conditions or public opinion, and the value of mental capital in trading.
What is the role of a trading journal in Omar's trading process?
-A trading journal serves as a tool for reflection and learning. It helps Omar track his trades, understand his performance, and identify areas for improvement outside of just win/loss ratios.
How does Omar view the relationship between his trading success and his social media presence?
-Omar sees his social media presence as a platform to share his journey transparently. He believes in showing both the highs and lows of trading to give a realistic view of the profession.
What advice does Omar have for new traders learning from online resources?
-Omar advises new traders to combine online learning with personal experience in the market. He emphasizes the importance of实操, or putting trades into action, to truly learn and understand the market dynamics.
Outlines
💰 The Philosophy of Trading and Mission-Driven Success
The speaker emphasizes the importance of having a strong mission in trading, which he believes attracts wealth even when not actively pursued. He discusses the concept of being a successful trader with an 80% win rate and the importance of not focusing solely on financial gains but rather on the process and strategy. Omar, a prominent figure in the trading industry, is introduced as a guest who exemplifies this approach, having experienced both significant earnings and the challenges of maintaining a systematic trading approach.
📈 Learning from Experience: The Evolution of a Trader
This paragraph delves into the journey of a trader's learning process, highlighting the transition from following others' advice to developing one's own strategies through experience and repetition. The trader discusses the importance of learning from both success and failure, the value of having a mentor, and the necessity of being actively engaged in the market to gain clarity and understanding. The conversation also touches on the role of prop firms and the benefits they offer to traders.
💼 The Impact of Public Perception on Trading Performance
The speaker reflects on the mental challenges of trading in the public eye, discussing the effects of public comments and opinions on a trader's confidence and performance. He shares personal experiences of both positive and negative feedback and how learning to tune out external noise has been crucial for his success. The importance of maintaining a clear mind and focusing on personal trading strategies rather than external validation is emphasized.
🚀 Growth and Reflection: A Trader's Journey Over the Years
This section provides an overview of the trader's growth over the years, discussing the significant milestones and lessons learned. The speaker talks about his biggest trading loss in 2020 and how it taught him the importance of risk management and mental capital. He also shares insights on how he has become more selective with trades to maintain momentum and avoid overconfidence, leading to a more mature and grounded approach to trading.
🤔 The Mental Game of Trading: Overcoming Insecurities and External Influences
The speaker discusses the mental aspects of trading, including the impact of public perception and the importance of self-belief. He shares how he has learned to ignore compliments and criticisms, focusing instead on his own trading performance. The conversation also touches on the trader's evolving approach to social media and public exposure, and the challenges of maintaining a clear head amidst the noise of public opinion.
🤝 The Art of Networking and Selective Relationships
In this paragraph, the speaker talks about his approach to networking and building relationships. He emphasizes the importance of having a small, selective circle of close contacts and the criteria he uses to maintain these relationships. The speaker also discusses his willingness to help others in the trading community by sharing advice and insights, based on his own experiences and lessons learned.
🧐 Analytical Mindset: Understanding People and Their Motivations
The speaker describes his analytical approach to understanding people, their motivations, and behaviors. He discusses how he pays attention to what people share and withhold in conversations, using these insights to assess their character and potential. The paragraph also touches on the speaker's views on networking and his belief in the importance of offering value in any relationship or interaction.
🌟 Vision and Passion: Building Beyond a Trading Journal
This section focuses on the speaker's passion for building Trad Zella, a tool aimed at helping traders become profitable. He shares his vision for the platform, which goes beyond being a simple trading journal. The speaker discusses the evolution of Trad Zella, its current features, and his aspirations for its future development, emphasizing the importance of mission and vision in driving success.
💼 Financial Freedom and Strategic Business Growth
The speaker reflects on his financial journey, discussing how he has reached a point of financial stability that allows him to focus on building and creating rather than purely on financial gains. He shares insights on his strategic approach to business growth, including the decision to reinvest profits back into the company and prepare for future challenges. The paragraph also highlights the speaker's long-term vision for his projects and his focus on value creation.
🎯 The Billionaire Mindset: Aiming for Excellence in Business
In this paragraph, the speaker clarifies his perspective on aiming for billionaire status, emphasizing that it is not about the money but rather the level of success and achievement in business. He discusses the importance of setting high goals and the potential for the projects he is involved in to reach significant valuations. The speaker also shares his thoughts on the competitive nature of business and the value of continuous learning and growth.
🔄 The Ebb and Flow of Trading: Adapting to Market Realities
The speaker discusses the lessons learned from his trading experiences, particularly the understanding that the market is always right and the importance of not trying to control it. He talks about the need to focus on controllable factors such as win rate and risk management. The paragraph also touches on the concept of resetting after both successes and failures to maintain a balanced approach to trading.
🏆 The Consistent Trader: Balancing Activity and Productivity
In the final paragraph, the speaker reflects on his approach to trading, emphasizing the importance of finding a balance between activity and productivity. He shares his strategy of focusing on quick wins and efficient trading setups, allowing him to achieve results with minimal effort. The speaker also discusses his preference for taking profits and stepping away rather than overtrading, highlighting the value of a relaxed and controlled trading mindset.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Trading
💡Profitability
💡Mission
💡Win Rate
💡Risk Management
💡Mental Capital
💡Execution
💡Transparency
💡Replication
💡Experience
💡Consistency
Highlights
Trader's belief in the power of a strong mission attracting wealth even when not explicitly sought.
Importance of having a systematic approach and a game plan in trading, rather than relying on luck.
The psychological impact of significant financial losses on a trader's confidence and decision-making.
Omar Ashra's introduction as a titan in the trading industry with a growing reputation.
The significance of transparency and proof in building trust and a personal brand in trading.
The evolution of a trader's strategy from following others to developing a personal methodology.
The indispensable role of experience in becoming a profitable trader, beyond educational resources.
The daily routine of a trader, including setting up game plans and reflecting on market outcomes.
The challenge of execution in trading and how practice helps to mitigate hesitation and fear.
Omar's experience with prop firms and the importance of finding those with a good reputation.
The impact of public trading on a trader's mindset and the importance of separating external opinions.
Omar's reflections on his trading journey, including significant profits and learning moments.
The importance of risk management and how a trader's perspective on risk evolves over time.
The mental shift required to view losses not just in financial terms but also their broader implications.
Omar's insights on the development of a trader's public persona and handling criticism.
The role of networking in a trader's career and the value of giving without expecting returns.
Omar's vision for Trad Zella as a tool beyond a trading journal, with future enhancements.
The strategic approach to business growth, focusing on building value rather than immediate profit.
The philosophical shift from being financially driven to being mission-driven in business.
Omar's thoughts on achieving a billion-dollar valuation not for the money but as a measure of success.
The personal preference for a stable trading approach, focusing on consistent wins rather than maximum effort.
The concept of resetting after each trading day or year, focusing on continuous improvement.
The idea of controlling the controllables in trading and accepting the market's inherent unpredictability.
Transcripts
a Trader who has proven himself to
profit over $20 million and probably one
of the biggest names in the trading
space I'm a strong believer when you
have a strong enough Mission the money
shows up even if you don't want it to
show up it's going to come imagine you
go and you're like I want to be the best
Trader that can have a 80% win rate
let's just say with a three R multiple
whatever the case is imagine you hit
that what will happen you will make
money simple but if you go and you're
like well I want to make $10 million
cool it's not just going to pop up here
well ladies and gents we have a big one
this week introducing Omar ashra a good
friend of mine Pioneer in the industry
and exactly what this show is about he
is a Titan of industry and he is not
only a Titan of today he's a Titan of
tomorrow because he's only on the uput
trajectory I've had days where I've made
tons of money and I've gotten purely
lucky and when I say luck I mean in
terms of there was no systematic
approach to that trade it was just
something that made sense in the moment
that I thought made sense but then when
I go back to it I'm like well it didn't
fit my game plan it didn't fit my
playbook it didn't fit any criteria that
I had so I have to say okay I'll take
the money but I have to write this off
as a bad trade it's not always the real
Financial Capital that you lose it's the
mental Capital that you lose when you
have such a big loss yes you lose the
money but alongside with the money what
else do you lose you lose confidence you
lose your ability to execute you lose
your ability to trust your setups and
Trust what you're doing and that is a
recipe for a big big mess I'm by Design
I've always been very lazy where in
trading I'm like okay well this is
working it's refined how do I make more
by doing the least amount of work okay
two ways
hey ladies and gents welcome back to
another episode I'm joined by a good
friend of mine and hopefully I think
this will be our best episode yet uh so
Omar ashra you've probably seen him
around uh taking over the Internet
especially in the trading space and he
became a good friend of mine a year ago
now through Riz Riz connected us on the
round table uh and then we just stayed
in touch um hung out often and because
we've built a friendship now I think I
can get a lot out of him that he hasn't
maybe said online so that's the goal for
this but yeah om thank you very much for
for making this happen thank you for
having me on man yeah that's why that's
one of the reasons I'm excited for this
pod cuz I go on some
pods and it's a lot of repeated
questions and I think people don't know
the depth of questions to ask me uh so I
think because of our friendship in the
past year I think it'll be a fun fun pod
for sure so what I want to do is skip
the life story by now they probably know
who you are and and seen it on another
bunch of podcasts uh so we can skip the
whole credentials who you are what
you've done and I want to just jump
right in uh first of all let's I want to
do it in phases so let's start off with
your trading itself and then obviously
you have a lot of other projects in life
you've done a lot of cool things so then
we can kind of uh direct and orientate
through that so just starting off with
trading you have probably the best
reputation in the industry and I think
you've LED with not just value but also
proof uh and the example that I've seen
is you want to learn something you can
learn it from your economics High School
teacher or you can learn it from Warren
Buffett they both tell you to in invest
in s SMP you want to learn from Warren
Buffett and I think that's probably why
your brand is grown in the way it has so
I just want to hear your reflection on
why you took the route to take social
media up and then be as transparent as
you have been and why you think others
aren't doing the same as you have
done I mean why others aren't doing the
same I think everyone can answer that
right that's not a that's not a hard one
to answer but uh my my Approach has
always been you know if I'm talking
about something I want to showcase that
I've done it right same thing in you
know when people talk about oh buy Tesla
Buy Apple buy this buy that make this
investment I think unless you have skin
in the game your opinion doesn't matter
right so if you come to me and you're
like hey bro buy this stock and I'm like
okay well how much skin in the game do
you have and you own nothing I don't
really care about your opinion right
same thing with if you come to me and
you're trying to teach me how to build a
certain business you're trying to teach
me how to you know do something at a at
a certain scale I want to see the proof
that you've done it because anyone can
read off a book and take that
information or watch a YouTube video and
kind of make it into their own opinions
and you know way they want to teach it
but I think people that have been
through actual War have the real wisdom
and I want to see people that have the
actual wisdom by going through War so if
I want to learn something the first
thing I look at is all right show me the
proof so for me for the past x amount of
years it's every year hey look this is
what I did every year and and for people
that don't know there's years that I
haven't done the best compared to the
year prior right I think in 20121 I did
7 and A2 and then the year after I did
under two 2 million in in profits
trading so I cut down 60 70% the next
year but I'm still showing it because
it's like hey this is my journey and I'm
just trying to show you guys what's
happening within my journey and how
trading really is and I think if you
want to build a legitimate business
product service when you are raw and
like real with it people will kind of
connect with you yeah and we've seen
your brand blow up I think Ju Just then
last year was 200k or below 200k you
ended the year at 600 so you tripled
your audience in the space of a year
year um and yeah so what I what I wanted
to get into with the trading element was
you obviously it's the stock side
whereas I'm in Forex so there is a bit
of a difference there but um when you
were coming to learn was there a lot of
information online that you could piece
together from or was majority of your
success and profitability through you
took the schools of thought information
but then you had to build your own way
and navigate through experience and Reps
as opposed to just learning was was it
that was it the latter uh I think when I
first started it was a lot of just
following one person doing what they're
doing and I think in 2013 it was a lot
of penny stocks like that was like the
big thing penny stocks especially the
way I was focusing on the market so I
went in in the route of trading penny
stocks midcaps small caps and then doing
whatever anyone on YouTube would tell me
to do because in my head I'm like oh
well they're on YouTube they have X
amount of views they must know what
they're talking about uh over time I've
learned majority of people have no idea
what they're talking about right they're
more so YouTubers than Traders
and for me to be good at this craft I
need to kind of make sense of the market
and what a lot of people talk about
doesn't really make sense and I have to
put it in I have to take Theory and put
it into action and kind of see so when I
started doing that I started getting my
reps in uh you know there's components
of the market that made sense there's
components of the market that didn't
make sense and from there I was like
okay well let's just try to gravitate
what is working and why it's working and
what's not working and why it's not
working and once I started puzzling that
together it started giv me giving me
more clarity in the markets MH do you
believe it's possible to just as a
newcomer become profitable become a
Trader through just online resources or
do you think that's the beginning but
you got to also then just spend an
extended period of time figuring it out
yourself I I think I think no matter
what course or what program you take it
can be the best trading program in the
world the best teacher you will have is
experience in the markets right it's
just it's it's given I like like I don't
think I can ever tell anyone hey give me
x amount and I will make you or help you
become a profitable Trader yes I can
guide you on the proper things to focus
on and the proper things not to focus on
but you still have to put the Reps in
like I can't help you get in shape right
without you going to the gym so as a
Trader you have to be on the field
putting on trades because also when you
put on trades with real Capital you
realize so many things about yourself
mistakes that you make fears that you
have that pop up on the trading screen
and you can't learn that without you
actually doing it and you putting it
into action mhm in that process for
yourself which is probably the best part
of a decade of just doing your reps
getting your own experience what were
you doing in that time frame to actually
do that cuz this this is a sentence that
people say you know go and find your own
experience but what does that truly mean
like dayto day what are you actually
doing to get that and um how do you
navigate yourself to know you're on the
right lines or not wasting time what
what does that day-to-day look like of
doing the Reps sure so early on the Reps
for me would be for example if if I'm
starting a trading session trading New
York session or you know 9:30 a.m.
eastern time uh I'm setting up game
plans just something simple as setting
up game plans and what I think is going
to happen in the market and why right
and then after the session is done I'm
done trading just going back to that
game plan and looking at how the market
act like what actually happened just
comparing that one kind of situation day
by day helped me grow help me learn
right help me learn oh wow you know a
week before big economic news is about
to hit the market we typically see flat
action cuz big players are on the
sideline yes someone can tell you that
and explain it to you but when you see
it happen and you experience it it
sticks with you right but the way you
make it stick with you is by putting in
the Reps of writing those things down
and then coming back to it and being
actively engaged in what's happening so
doing something as small as that uh
doing things that's terms of going back
to my trades and and looking at them
right and being honest where I've had
days where I've made tons of money and
I've gotten purely lucky like purely
lucky and when I say luck I mean in
terms of there was no systematic
approach to that trade it was just
something that made sense in the moment
that I thought made sense but then when
I go back to it I'm like well it didn't
fit my game plan it didn't fit my
playbook it didn't fit any criteria that
I had so I essentially got lucky so I
have to say okay I'll take the money but
I have to write this off as a bad trade
yes vice versa when I have I've had bad
trades in the moment I got in first
traded I'm like oh man I lost money this
was a terrible trade and then when I go
back to it I'm like no this wasn't a
good this wasn't a bad trade this was
actually a great trade right I have put
out the risk and it didn't work out
that's the market that's what I signed
up for I am required to put at risk I'm
required to have trades that I'm going
to lose money on I lost money it was the
appropriate amount that I was willing to
lose based on my account size based on
the trade I was taking whatever the case
is and it just didn't work out and there
was nothing that I could do in this
predicament to make it better and I have
to learn and live with that so doing
those reps doing those things over time
they become second nature to you and you
become very kind of fluid in the market
especially with your execution because
the biggest problem I think people have
is execution they can have they can have
a good road map a good game plan uh good
playbooks good setups everything but
when it's time to execute with real
Capital they hesitate they're scared
they double guess themselves they're
over whatever the case is so I think
when you get those reps in over and over
again you kind of reduce those feelings
emotions and and whatnot in this day and
age prop firms is the best opportunity
for Traders but the problem with prop
firms is a lot of them have major red
flags two large commission two large
spread huge percentage gain targets
Alpha capital on the other hand has some
of the best trading conditions in the
industry with Z commissions minimal
slippage very competitive spreads and
Alpha capital is one of the few prop
firms that has never denied a payout and
they have a clean reputation which is
why I'm proud to be working alongside
them using the link in the description
or the code to you can go ahead and get
any challenge for 30% off when it came
to your last 3 four years let's say in
your trading you've publicly mentioned I
forget the numbers but 7 mil 1 year 2
million another year so if you can just
give me a quick summary of the last
three years and I want to Peg it to a
question so the last three years roughly
what was your end of year all three
years probably 2020 2021 2022
three probably more than 15 just four
years probably more and how would that
be broken down because you said one was
a big year then it was less I I it was I
think 2020
was I don't quote me of the numbers but
I'll maybe mix up a year or two I think
one year was like two then one year was
like 7.5 I think one year was 1 14 I
think one was 4.4 last year was
4.4 uh but 2020 and 2022 maybe I mixed
them one was 1.4 and one was like 2
million I mean regardless big years and
big numbers
and just just something about two of
those years right uh I think it was
20120 is when I had my biggest trading
loss right MH uh and that was publicly
as well yeah I had my biggest trading
loss I still closed the year out
profitable over seven figures so that's
one and it's not to you know brag about
it or oh my God look it's more so to
Showcase that it's not the year that I
had it's the stuff that happened within
the year that as a Trader you're still
able to come out and I think the other
year which was
2022 uh I necessarily didn't trade for
majority of the year I even have like a
whole thing on my Instagram I didn't
trade for half the year uh primarily
because that was the year we were
building trade Z yeah right uh so so
that's what it was so it there were very
few years where I was actively day
trading every single day every single
month to month to month to month so
that's why you see the big difference in
2021 to the other years cuz people ask
me well you had such a big year in 2021
what went wrong the other one or two
years and it's like well wasn't a level
wasn't Level Playing Field in terms of
how active I was trading it wasn't the
same 2020 I was actively trading well
but just that big losing month just kind
of destroyed me for like four or five
months confidence wise so which year
would you say therefore is the year
you're most proud of given maybe it's
not the one that you made the most money
maybe it was climbing back from a big
loss or I think it had to be 2020
absolutely yeah because I think when
because I've never lost that amount of
money second it was public right I
showed the market which I was up on at a
point then when feds cut the raid and
started pouring money into the markets
for me to switch my position which is
what I should have done I doubled down I
was just so like I'm going to be right I
put it out publicly and every single
thing I touched after I lost money on I
remember I showed it Tesla I lost money
I showed it Zillow I lost money on
anything I touched because I was in such
a mentality of the market can't go up it
has to go down y
and uh you know from ment from a mental
point of view it's kind of like oh
I think I'm about to have my first red
year this was like in May of 2020 I was
like I'm going to have my first red year
and then it went into well do I not know
how to trade this Market because you
know you start listening to what people
are saying comments people like oh well
he's been trading in bull market for his
whole life so that's why he's been
making money and then you you go
wait and then you know when you take a
step back you're look well it doesn't
matter as a Trader if it's a bull market
or bare Market because I made money both
ways but then you still let those things
start bothering you so for me to come
out of that year green and not just like
break even green over seven figures
green was kind it gave me the confidence
booster of like okay well I now realize
even more that this stuff happen in
trading and I realize even more that my
risk has to be on top of everything cuz
that big loss could have been avoided
but I let my risk go out of control
because I wasn't looking at how much I'm
risking I was looking at what I could
make if if I'm right and I was so
anchored towards I'm going to be right
so the more money and more risk I put in
the more money I will make so I factored
out that I'm going to be wrong and that
kind of just put things that I already
knew in perspective like this is
what happens when you do that and the
biggest thing I learned from that wasn't
the mental Capital right it's not always
about the it's not no not me it's not
always the real Financial Capital that
you lose it's the mental Capital that
you lose when you have such a big loss
yes you lose the money
but alongside with the money what else
do you lose you lose confidence you lose
your ability to execute you lose your
ability to trust your setups and Trust
what you're doing so every trade
afterwards like I said I hesitated on am
I sure is it working you know so things
just got really messy so that's why now
when I look at trades I'm like okay well
I'm risking 30 grand of trade okay
well let me not look at the trade from a
perspective of oh I will make 90 grand
or I will make 100 Grand what else will
I lose if I'm wrong and I look at every
trade
going so that shed my mindset so you
don't consider the loss just in the
dollar amount it's the L plus the other
Domino effects of the loss it depends
where I am but yeah a lot of times yeah
cuz like if I'm doing really really well
right like let's say I'm on a hot streak
uh I kind of start getting more on the
tip of my toes then because I'm like
okay well I'm on a hot streak if I
overplay my hand on the wrong spot one
or two times I don't want to give up too
much profits I don't want to lose too
much money and I also don't want to
immediately destroy this momentum I have
so I want to get more selective because
when you do really really well as a
Trader you start developing more blind
spots right and I've seen that happen
like I've seen myself go like a
three-week winning streak and then the
week after I have the worst trading week
and I'm like how do I even take this
trade and I realize it's those mental
blind spots because you start winning
for so long that you stop doing the
things you were originally doing you
stop looking at trades from a different
perspective you start looking like I
can't be wrong and that's happened to me
so uh ju just kind of taking those
lessons and compiling them together was
was big for me in in those years that
You' mentioned were you also public as
public the whole time yeah okay so I
wanted to ask upon that element too
because you're talking about the mental
real estate taken up by a loss but then
you got a whole other Cloud on top of
you mentally which is the public domain
the opinions the comments and so forth
which is both ways probably where when
you are going through the winds you get
that euphoric high of I've made profit
but then you also get the validation of
the whole world saying you're a legend
so that can that can skew you in one way
and the other that's never that that's
never when I was younger sure 22 23 now
I if anyone says anything to
me it it doesn't it doesn't boost up my
ego at all like I I I've learned to shut
that off like I like someone can come to
me and say oh you're you're this you're
that I don't care I I don't want to hear
it I'm I'm I'm it's going to go in one
year out the other and I think you need
that
whereas previously when you were younger
it yeah of course yeah you you know
you're younger you hear things from
people cuz it it puts you at a point of
you get very comfortable mhm that's
number one number two it Alters how you
think to a certain degree especially if
you're trading you start getting
comfortable relax you start going oh I
know what I'm doing I got this down and
that is a recipe for a big big mess yeah
right so I now I don't like people say
things I'm just like great I I want to
tune it out is it easy to that yeah very
easy because also you have to mentally
know who you're anchoring off cuz
like you have to Anchor off people that
are at a very high level and are doing
extremely well and obviously when you
get there you then anchor of higher and
higher people and there's always stages
in life right so for me it's always been
looking at things from that perspective
like for example when I was I think 24 I
bought a I bought a car and people like
oh my God you got this car so great
great great you know and I'm like okay
well it's cool but there's people that
have $60 million jets $70 million jets
and it's not the idea isn't the jet I'm
not trying to make it all about that but
it's to Anchor yourself and to keep
yourself grounded at what stage you're
at right so I I don't listen to I don't
like to listen to compliment so
therefore is it easier for you now than
before because as you've ascended in the
social media sphere and you've kind of
were lower down and you've worked your
way up and now you're you're kind of up
there is it therefore the compliments or
the bad comments of the people in the
industry don't affect you because you've
achieved what you came out to achieve
yeah I mean the bad comments did affect
me early on now they don't unless it's
coming from someone that's doing really
really well and better than me sure but
if you're not doing better I not an
egotistic way depends on where it's
coming from is it like healthy criticism
to help me improve which I'm open to
listening to from all angles or is it
pure hate and most of the time it's pure
hate and I'm like you can't please
everyone yeah exactly so this year so
this is coming into my eighth year so
it's only only this year is the first
time I've decided to take a similar step
which is try and put my neck on the line
a little bit and and be a bit public so
that's why I wanted to mention is
because it's actually I've been
performing really well which is kind of
like could have gone either way I could
have performed really bad or really well
and as we know your wins and losses are
randomly distributed it's not just going
to be win loss win loss so I've been on
I've been on a good streak and it's so
nicely that it's been publicly uh so as
we're filming now it's week 12 and I'm
up 40% on on the public signals a lot of
people are talking about that I remember
I spoke to someone uh they brought that
up like yeah yo what are you's doing on
on live it's cool yeah so for me
the the trading performance and the
profitability is what what I've been
doing for a while not to that level it's
only in the last 2 three years that I've
got very strong but that was always
behind the scenes so now when I'm doing
it publicly I thought probably naively
that I could just keep doing it and it's
not going to affect me um and it hasn't
affected my performance at all which is
good but I it's kind of like it's
something I'm avoiding but I know it's
coming where it's it's I'm seeing the
comments and when I'm winning a trade
the comments are sick so then that is
affecting me like okay cool you know I'm
getting that approval people see that
I'm Legit I've been saying I'm Legit for
years now they're seeing it but then it
happened to me where I had like it was
when I was around 35% up I had three
losses in a row and you're the worst
Trader you're the worst Trader in the
world y yeah and I was like because I
get it people are like following along
so they didn't join on day one they've
joined on week 10 week 12 whatever so
they just see me three losses in a row
so those comments they hurt it didn't my
trading yet but they hurt and then then
I had a trade the next day that I took
myself and I didn't put it as a signal I
was like what if it's another fourth one
whatever but it ended up being a win
which would have covered those losses so
I can already see early on how it can
cloud and affect performance and then
maybe if I'm doing this for a year how
it's going to affect other things um cuz
it is very sensitive and for me I it's
annoying but the compliments I don't
feel but the Nega I don't know why maybe
I should feel them the odd comment from
a ghost account I feel and then the same
thing that you said of like maybe he's
right I'm like how can he be right I've
been doing this for years but he's like
oh you don't know how to trade I'm like
maybe I don't so that when you say to me
that um it doesn't affect you at all why
not kind of thing it doesn't affect me
all now that that's the thing in 2020
2021 maybe it affected me that was my
seventh or eighth year I think I've I've
gotten to a point now where
I've kind of just been hyperfocused here
and I'm like okay this is where I'm
going so if you think I suck at trading
then cool I suck at trading I don't
really care at the end of the year when
I have a p&l to post unless you have a
bigger p&l to post your comment to me is
irrelevant about if I suck at trading or
not and I'm also not trading for you and
I'm not trading for you I am trading
solely for myself so if you think I suck
then great I suck I don't care I'm not
arguing now me at 2020 was very
different okay it would it would mess
with me in both ways right um if some r
random comment on Instagram or whatever
says this guy sucks I want to prove him
wrong yes right and it's exactly that
where you know I I I've traded well for
x amount of time and then when that when
I had that bad
period I am now the worst Trader in the
world to everyone right so that is how
people are that's how you know humans
are going to react but it's ultimately
you have to kind of create a separation
from that yeah keep doing it publicly
keep posting but just you have to kind
of put this wall up to not let the
comments come in cuz if they start
coming in and it really builds a space
and also you have to keep in mind you
haven't had a two three week losing
period right exactly and when it comes
which it will so what happened was I was
always then as you say the comments come
so I'm just jumping to defend my
position I'm like no you don't make
sense because of XYZ so I was always
just replying to these odd hate comments
and someone just commented he was like
what have notice you only reply to the
negatives and all the positives you
don't even reply to so it's a bit of
reality check I was like he's right I'm
focusing on the negative and that will
breed more and and it will just end up
worse but the reason I bring all of this
up is
because as you grow from year one as a
Trader to a decade and Beyond uh it
seems like in your case it's evolved a
lot not just from mental maturity but
also the externals so I think when
everybody starts you have a chip on your
shoulder because you're doing you're
entering an industry that is
non-conventional and therefore it comes
with stigma and usually parents don't
support it friends around you are like
oh you trying to be some Trader now so
it's always negative in the beginning so
then you therefore come with a frame of
I want to prove everyone uh wrong mhm uh
not only yourself but also the people
around you and then as you grow and you
start to enjoy it and you get you know
you find some profitability maybe you
don't care so much about the friends
opinions but you might still care about
your parents opinions CU they are still
checking in like hey are you still you
know you still trying to for me trying
to be a dentist or what is going on uh
and then it seems like you reached the
stage where you've blocked it all out or
maybe there is someone's opinion that
you're still trying to maybe it's your
parents maybe it's someone around you or
is it just now you versus you and it's
on yourself I at this current stage I I
don't think any I don't care about
anyone's opinion it all it also comes
with it doesn't just come from
affirmations and you telling yourself
stuff it comes with the level of
success right okay like when you get to
a level of success
consistently you start having this level
of belief within yourself that becomes
so unshakable from the outside even
within the inside someone in your family
someone close to you you're like okay
well this person doesn't know me then if
this is what they think they don't know
me but that is only that only comes when
you get that success to a point where
you feel very confident like even though
I've had success in 2019 even though
I've had success in 2018 to a certain
degree I didn't feel that confident or
comfortability within myself until maybe
20122 right and what what changed in
that I think I think for me one thing
that changed is when I went back and I
paused and I looked at every year I'm
like well I've been profitable for seven
years out of the nine 10 years at that
certain time and I'm like I've posted a
p&l people say their comments in between
areas people question
things okay I'll have a bad month I know
I'm going to have a bad month I'll have
a bad quarter but I have proven time
over time that I do come out winning at
the end of the year for myself not for
you so I think that gives you a level of
comfortability like for example if I and
I trade live tomorrow and I'm and I
trade terribly for two weeks okay in the
back of my head I'm like okay well this
two week doesn't determine my whole year
yes yes and I've done it for x amount of
years in the past year and then also
when you get so many hate comments CU
I've gotten it from so many people from
friends from certain family members and
so on especially in the trading world
and then you see everyone trying to do
what you're doing after knocking you
down it also shows you that people's
hate or people's dis liken towards what
you're doing isn't about you it's more
about them it's their lack of knowledge
about what you're doing they maybe have
a bad stigma and trading does have a bad
stigma right I I I hate to admit it but
trading is not like I'm not proud to go
out and be like yeah I'm a day trader
I've seen it when we go out for din you
know so it's it's it it's become such a
bad stigma because of how certain
influencers have made it so when people
look at it like oh you're trying to do
this scam nonsense I get where they're
coming from so I have to accept that
their opinion and point of view is only
to the you know experiences they've had
so I just don't take it personal and it
is it is a rough road even for you like
I said when you go through that two
three week uh losing period and it's
going to happen everyone goes through
that public losing period right that's
when the comments will mess with you
that's when what everyone says will put
you in a in in a terrible state of mind
so I'm not that guy that is going to
sell out and throw promotions at you
throw this link that link you've never
seen it from me but trade Zeller is a
little bit different this is a
journaling software that I've been using
myself for about a year now and you've
seen it on my YouTube videos many many
times going back months and months and
because I'm friends with the founder
Umar he's actually given me an exclusive
offer to pass on a discount to you guys
because I told him that it's a valuable
gift I want to give to my audience as a
Trader it's very simple you have to find
an edge and then you have to have a mind
so you can follow that edge but how do
you know if you're performing correctly
or not you have to know your data and
trade Zeller is going to show you
everything that you need beyond the
surface level win rates and performance
and Equity curve it's going to show you
detailed reports it's going to be your
back testing tool strategy testing tool
playbooks notes and it's going to be a
full Journal it makes your journaling
easier faster and more meaningful
whereas if you were just documenting on
Excel spreadsheet or taking screenshots
on your iPhone you wouldn't be able to
pull out the data that you need the
correlation is that the AI within Trad
Zella is pulling out for you there's so
much variety and utility within the
software that I think it's essential for
any Trader so the link somewhere below
is going to take you directly to the
trade Zella website I'm not getting paid
this is for you if you want it if you
like it go ahead and explore it and
probably you'll be using it for years to
come I've noted from you uh from seeing
you online first for however many years
I was following you it was more than 5
years and then meeting you and obviously
you've changed a lot as everyone does in
their 20s um and you've reached a very
like mature spot and and you're very
comfortable in your own skin and so
forth whereas you've also mentioned to
me previously you were maybe more
insecure or trying to prove or trying to
you know all these other things that is
normal that when someone in at the age
of 22 has all that money it's natural um
I want to understand because you've
mentioned you are an introvert by Nature
um and I've also noticed how you carry
yourself at least in Dubai which is very
very small circle by design it seems but
you have a huge Network where whenever
someone's coming to Dubai they know you
they hit you up and then you will you
will always give someone time of day too
and go for lunch go for a dinner whether
you then stay in touch after is another
thing but I wanted to understand is that
a intentional decision of want to have a
small circle of people you speak to but
being on social media therefore everyone
trying to get access to you um and
therefore having a huge network but a
small circle is that by Design is that
anything to do with your trading with
the with the ego conflation and so forth
uh no I think it's my circle has you
know continuously stayed small and it
has actually went smaller year after
year I think this year last year was the
smallest year prior to that was the
smallest until that year year prior to
that was the smallest every year it's
been cutting more and more people down
and it it's been like people that are
close to me I've I've learned
where number one if you are close to me
I I I want to make sure you're at a
certain standard and it doesn't have to
do with money it doesn't have to do with
Finance it doesn't have to do with
status it has to do with how you carry
yourself how you are as an individual
like I've had people that have been
caught up in some real dumb dumb
problems and I'm like if I am next to
you every day and you are doing so much
dumb your bad smell is going to
come on me so hence you don't respect
mine and your relationship understanding
what I'm trying to build and you want to
be like you know what I'm saying so I
have to keep a distance from you same
thing with people coming and asking for
things like if someone in a certain
circle of mine and and I've had people
in the past years ask me for stuff like
hey can you give me money for
example that's that's that's a real big
turnoff because it depends where it's
coming from if you're someone that's
started a business and is a close friend
of mine and you're pushing to be better
and you run into problems I understand
but if you're someone doing nothing with
your life and you have you come to
someone that is pushing and trying to
you know move forward in life hey can I
get money and you're lazy and you're not
doing anything okay well I don't I want
nothing to do with you I don't care who
you are just stay away so you know the
circle wise that's by Design and I'm
very comfortable in having very minimal
people in my life right just I am so
okay with that I I don't want a lot of
people when I was 23 I actually wanted a
lot of people in my life and then as I
got older I was like I I I don't enjoy
having tons of people a few close people
that I I can speak to St in contact with
is fine uh in terms of the network of
Traders
um it's primarily because when I see
certain Traders I see what they're doing
and they may be doing something the
wrong way right let's say running their
business running the brand whatever and
for me one of the biggest things when I
was 22 was having a mentor and I never
had a mentor I never had a person I can
go to to be like hey where am I messing
up so when I see some of them and and if
they reach out to me and they ask me for
advice I'm always willing to give that
as long as I know you're willing to take
it and and and do something with it
right if you're just coming and just I
think you're BS you're not actually
going to take the advice serious you're
not going to take the time seriously and
do anything with it then absolutely no
right so for me it's I I think it comes
more so from that CU at 22 or even 23 I
was lost even at 25 it's certain things
I was lost like let's say starting
trades all I wish I had a person to be
like hey how do I build this ass company
right like I remember Alex Becker at 25
uh I used to watch his stuff I still do
here and there but I was like oh I wish
I could reach out to this guy and just
have a 30 minute conversation on how we
built hos right just something small and
I realized that goes a long way for some
people that are trying to build and I I
I don't see where it would hurt ever to
help someone give them 20 30 minutes and
you know and I I always believe things
get reciprocated one way or another yeah
so that that's something I've noted too
where your your position in the industry
is like you're you're very seen also not
seen at the same time it's weird uh
thing but whenever I meet a Trader uh or
your name obviously always will come up
and they've always said oh yeah yeah I
spoke to them he helped me out whether
it's literally everyone whether it's
from Kimmo to Paladin to Jesse or
whoever like they're all like oh yeah
yeah Omar helped me out with this Omar
gave me this advice and it seems like
you're supporting everyone you're you're
pulling everyone up but also you're kind
of also a bit removed uh which for me
then posed the question of do you
believe in networking in general I mean
I don't consider that networking to be
honest um like all the people the people
you've mentioned and so many other
people I genuinely think they're great
people just like putting the trading
aside I think they're great people like
Kimble I ran into me yesterday uh at the
mall great guy um uh Paladin Jesse Omar
every single person and and my thing is
I'm always open to whatever experiences
I have that you don't have and if I can
help you avoid making those mistakes
sure uh I may need something for you I
may need some help from you you know
same thing goes in that way so it gets
reciprocated in so many different ways
and I'm a big believer on just giving
and giving and giving right and and give
with not without looking for anything in
return I think when you give with
looking for something in return it just
it doesn't come off pure it's just not
the way so it's like hey you need help
with this sure I've done this this see
where I messed up this is what worked
this see what didn't work here you go
take it I don't care and I'm I'm not
really uh I'm not really too I'm not
I've never been the P person where it's
like oh I'm scared of building a comp
competitor oh my God if I give you
opinion on how I'm growing my YouTube or
how it worked I'm scared of you becoming
I don't care good luck I hope you do
well phenomenal I it doesn't bother me
to to that point I think I think it's
very true that trading the industry is
not a or space it's not like Omar or
someone else it can be and and you
usually collab and amplify each other so
it's it's it's a benefit for everyone
you know we've had in at least in Dubai
in in the last year we've had some
adventures of uh meeting different
people going out for dinners um and
networking outside of the Traders uh
space and I've noticed your approach has
always been uh you're very calculated
let's say no that's the wrong word
you're just more observant okay you're
more observant you kind of listen what
they have to say you maybe direct them
in a certain way to kind of see what
they're about why would you know why are
they saying certain things to you and
then always after we've met someone we
have a bit of a debrief of like what do
you think what do you think and you're
always analyzing of like he told me this
why do you think he felt the need to
remind me of that so bring this up or
mention this small thing uh is that
something you've always been like like
very analytical and understanding why
people move in the way they do and and
or is that just we just have a fun
conversation no I mean I'm I'm I always
like to analyze people I'm breaking
bread with or even meeting in general uh
I like to know I like to know you on a
deeper level than what you portray I
think a lot of people that portray
something they have so much more depth
behind it and when I analyze them
through conversations what they share
what they don't share like for example
if you and I have a conversation about
cars and you have to remind me of how
how much money you made last year even
if you've done well and I've met people
that do extremely well it comes from
okay why does this guy feel so insecure
or why does this person feel insecure
that they need to bring this up it also
shows you because I think the biggest
flaw humans can have is insecurity if
you get into business with someone a
relationship friendship whatever and
they're insecure that can be a big big
mess down the road right because they
need to feel that they're doing well or
showcase the world that they're doing
well it becomes a big problem so I I
just like to analyze people uh look at
things they're saying how the
conversations going and just kind of pay
attention to that always it's it's it's
not something I do actively it just
subconsciously happens and I also if I
don't have anything to add to a
conversation I'm like when I was younger
I did now I'm like I have nothing to add
I'm not going to just say things to say
things fair enough and in general
networking outside of the trader space
which you still participate in do you
feel like there's any benefit in it or
why why do you still entertain it uh I
mean I I I I enjoy meeting people right
I think especially people that are doing
very very well I I would love to sit
down and and talk for an hour or two
just to pick up things even if you and I
are talking about let's say we're
Traders we're not talking about tra
trading we're talking about horses I can
still learn a lot about you just through
conversation that I may not learn if we
only spoke about trading so I think it
gives you insights it gives you ways
people look at stuff I think it's great
but I I I've never really been the
biggest fan of networking I just had a
different approach not to say networking
is bad or you're too good to network
with people absolutely not uh I think if
you want to be taken serious you have to
have something to bring to the table and
if you are networking you can't like if
you're making I don't know half a
million dollar a year you can't go to a
guy doing a 100 million a year and say
Hey I want to network with you yeah from
a respect point of view
you have nothing to offer I'm not making
it offering or not offering game but you
have to come to you know uh any sort of
game and and level out the playing field
even if it's not what can I offer this
person that they don't have or they may
need to network with them and that's the
idea of networking with either meeting
with people at your level or higher so
you have to kind of you know be able to
balance that out and for me it's always
been hey these are things I want to
do uh I understand that if I do them
exception exceptionally well and I put
all my energy into being the best at
this whoever I want to meet eventually
they will want to meet me it can come
from an ego standpoint of view or
whatever standpoint of view for me it's
just been make my position so much more
stronger that if I want to meet with
this individual they will eventually
want to meet with me instead of me going
after them not that I won't or what not
but it's just strengthening my
position let's say 10 years from now you
you've come a long way in the last let's
say decade in your career where in
multiple vertical whether it's uh with
stock market labs and black line trading
and establishing a floor and all of
those Ventures it's within your own
personal trading and and excelling in
that and then it's also now with s SAS
with Trad Zella and all the complexities
that come with that and it's basically a
separate industry of tech and SAS and
managing scaling a team but it's applied
to the trading space so when you have
all these multi multiple vertical which
do all cross over but they are
independent skill sets and independent
projects um number one what are you most
passionate about moving forward
because that's probably going to change
and and maybe already has changed and
let's say 10 years from now when you're
in that networking environment and
you've you've met some someone you look
up to what would you want to tell them
that you're most proud about or what
would you want to lead with moving in
the in the future I mean 10 years from
now I I I don't know like I can't
mentally think 10 years ahead okay I
just I just I can't do it I think uh so
many things happen throughout the years
that it's hard to think 10 years ahead
at least for me I I can't so I don't
know about 10 years ahead uh I think the
thing I'm most passionate about would be
trade Zella uh the reason is because
everyone still thinks we are aiming to
be a trading journal which we're not
that's like phase one right uh I've said
this I've said this countless times by
mid 2025 maybe end of 2025 we are going
to be something completely different uh
even now we've added back testing we
added replay we added so many other
things where we're evolving from a
trading journal and that done by Design
why we're taking that route and what we
are trying to to become which I don't
want to share yet is something way
bigger right and this is just step one
so that's why I'm I'm passionate about
that not because oh my God it's the
trading journal no it's what we're
aiming to build and what we're trying to
become in the trading space uh that has
to be I think is is probably where I'm
the most passionate with and I think I
will be and it has nothing to do with
money or dollar value it's just even if
trade Zell went to a point where in
three years I made Z from it I I'm okay
with that because I'm so passionate into
building the idea because I think
whenever you have any sort of idea or
Vision in your head and you can make it
come to life I think that to me is like
the the most exciting thing I've seen
you speak on podcast before and like uh
the Journey of Trad Zeller and the early
days and when you had no idea you were
just interviewing other uh what's it
called Tech providers just to learn what
to ask and that kind of stuff so we
you've mentioned that before but how
about now like 2023 and now and 2024
where I just remember cuz I see it the
long hours and also the different
challenges week to week uh things get
delayed things get pushed back you hit
roadblocks one thing for me was just
crazy when you mentioned that simple
feature of night mode where everything's
white and then you can turn turn
everything black it sounds like a quick
thing but then you were like no no it
took I think two weeks in the end right
yeah it took some time you know cuz the
thing is you need designs you need to
incorporate the right way especially if
you didn't do it from day one we didn't
do it from day one so with design
updates and making the color palette
similar and then incorporating it on all
the different pages cuz we're a much
more evolved product was way long
because I thought it was going to take a
day just something very small yeah but
it was like it takes a few weeks so now
coming into this year obviously you have
like a bigger road map for 25 2025 and
Beyond but let's say by the end of the
year what do you want trade Zella to
have and mean to people Beyond just the
journaling app I mean by the end of the
year the the one of the big features is
the uh Z AI which we're working on right
now it's to give you complete feedback
we have so many data sets uh where if
you put in your information right you
upload your trades we will be able to
give you very accurate information on
areas that we think that you need to
improve on just right off the bat that's
like the one big core feature uh second
is we're trying to incorporate tons of
different educational models into it so
much education all free like you don't
have to subscribe to trade zel to get it
it's going to be free for everyone right
so even if you're like I don't want to
join trade Dela we believe in the
mission of we want to empower Traders
and we want to help Traders become
profitable so we don't want to be like
well for you to get this education you
need to pay us x amount of month or x
amount of year to get it no if you don't
want to use us it's fine you can still
use the education so the Education
portal the way we are aiming to build it
and how the a Ai and the third thing
which that's the third thing I don't
want to share just because it gives
people a Competitive Edge and I think
that that part is important and I'll
tell you off camera but yeah those those
would be three things um we added a back
testing a very basic back testing but I
think to evolve that into automated back
testing as well where you can put in
your strategy and structure it however
you want write it out and the AI model
can kind of put that into words and kind
of take those trades in a certain time
period but like I said every two we
build it comes off with one idea of how
do we help the trader that's it you know
and like I said even now we're not a
final finished product we're far from it
I I still think we're like 5% or 10% of
where we where we're trying to get to MH
when when I see trade Z forward facing
in terms of what you're putting online
and content wise is just a phenomenal
tool people can benefit and and it's uh
it's just brilliant but behind the
scenes I also see the other side which
is the Strategic businessman who's
calculating moves ahead chess moves
ahead and then just simple things of
like um obviously is doing great
business-wise Revenue wise but you're
not taking a penny out for yourself uh
yet
and it's been a while and and and then I
asked you and you were strategic you
were like okay because one day a
competitor will come I need to have a
war chest ready to make sure we are the
best and then also keep investing in
your team and the best tech to keep
growing it um so the it leads to my
question which is I think by now you've
achieved everything you wanted to
financially in terms of you have more
than you could probably spend and
therefore your generation below also um
and you've done cool things like you
just bought your family house for $4
million you're doing incredible stuff
the schools in Pakistan that you're
building so now when you've reached that
point where you're doing the cool stuff
and you've taken care of yourself are
you still financially driven or is it
now just building and doing cool things
uh I I think it stopped being
financially driven from
2020 okay yeah I I I think I stopped I
stopped I think 2020 or 2019 was the
last time around then where I've set
Financial goal I've not had a financial
end of the year goal okay since then
even now I don't have a goal of any
monetary number at all it's all hey
trade dollar we want to build a tool
that can help Traders become profitable
right you go to my content there's a
mission behind it every video that we
make for trading or any video we make at
all is for the 18-year-old Umar that is
watching or trying to get into trading
so everything has to resonate with that
so any video we make that's why you'll
see my content there's no fluff there's
no there's no go buy my course
guys 18-year-old Umar didn't like that
that's not what I want to put out to him
that's not what I want him to watch I
want to give him raw real value so
everything we have is Mission oriented
right and I'm a strong believer when you
have a strong enough mission in any
company anything you do the money shows
up yeah you don't I like you even if you
don't want it to show up it's going to
come like imagine you go and you're like
I want to be the best Trader that can
have 80% win rate let's just say with a
three R multiple whatever the case is
imagine you hit that what what will
happen
you will make money simple right but if
you go and you're like well I want to
make $10
million cool it's not just going to pop
up here yep right so I I I don't set um
I'm not really driven by money I know
money is a byproduct and that will
always drive humans to want more because
it's a competitive game but any any
goals I have or anything I set are not
around money I I also think after after
you have a set amount whatever that
number is and I think everyone has a
different number where it's like well I
H live a very comfortable life at this
number everything over that is just go
crazy like you know that's why with
trade Zell I think the superpower I have
and someone told me this is I Don't Need
a Dollar from it and I will not ever
really need a dollar from it so I can
keep pouring money back into it I can
keep letting the war chest build up as
much as possible I don't have to go
outside and raise Capital uh I don't
need you know any any Partners besides
it being family-owned and just growing
that 100% and uh I think that puts us at
a a very strong place because there's no
need for money out of it and I think
most companies like you know when you
have to pull money out and you have to
start doing and and the other things I
can pour more money if needed yes yes I
mean it's a strategic advantage to grow
um do you think when I look at the
people around me in my circle and stuff
uh there's very few people that I think
could hit 100 million 500 million a
billion uh I think you have so much time
left in your career and you're already
at a you know very very good position
that billion dollar Mark is that
something you have your eyes on as a
long-term Target or yeah and no actually
I remember now you said um I want to be
a billionaire not for the money more for
the rooms that can make me enter
something those lines it's you know when
people hear someone say they want to be
a billionaire or they want to kind of
get there I think everyone looks at as
like oh my God this guy's so full of
himself or girl whatever they care so
much about money I don't it's not it's
not about the money I think it's it's
cuz when we play business that's our
trophy that's our what we're playing the
higher degree we play
at the better we are if you want to do
it right and it is a competition at the
end of the day like when you go to
sports the top athletes are winning
rings winning championships winning
Super Bowls whatever the case is right I
think for for business having the B Mark
is that trophy so I think going after it
and building after isn't what I'm
directly doing but when I go into like
hey we are getting involved in this
project or that project this project has
the potential to be worth a billion
MH right we see it it's there it's
possible right I'm not actively waking
up and saying I want to make a billion
dollars but if you are on a on a train
track that is going to take you
potentially to a billion if done
correctly then you can you can see it so
I with two of the projects that we are
working on I I can see that happen now
will it happen I don't know uh will I
work towards building the company to be
at that value sure right but it's not
like oh my God I want a billion dollars
in cash cuz I you know what I me me but
it's just a byproduct of something you
build the more valuable something is
especially in in business the more it's
worth the the other thing that we were
kind of mentioning off camera was the
idea of what trading will hold in in
someone's life and right now for me I'm
just as passionate as I was in the
beginning and I think it's because I'm
still um uh hopeful that I can achieve a
lot more as in I still see a lot more
upside in my career uh and I'm also
still learning a lot and and refining
and find you know doing the Reps so for
me it's still I feel like in that
Curative creative space whereas now
you're a little bit further so you've
also now achieved the big Milestones
financially so that kind of box or that
desire is kind of ticked off it seems
like you're in a very stable place where
you have your models you have your
systems and you're not trying to change
it too much so that hope of like how
much better can I get is also ticked off
so when you reach that stage of you've
been doing it for years at a stable
level and you've hit you've TI these
boxes do you then also then get kind of
it's just repetitive and and and
monotonous and therefore you want to
exit one day or is it something that's
always going to be a piece of your life
and being active in the markets uh I I
have phases of being active in the
market so I I think that's why I get
through with it uh like I'll have two
months where I'm a day trader and then
I'll have two months where I don't even
look at what's going on in the market
right uh but I think with me it's
um I'm I'm design I've always been very
lazy I'm still very lazy I know it
sounds very it sounds weird cuz like how
are you lazy I know I'm very lazy uh
where in trading I'm like okay well this
is
working it's
refined how do I make more by doing the
least amount of work okay two ways find
these similar setups that I'm good at
put in more risk if I can find that
trade the least amount of days and I can
make more money cool I I'm not a fan fan
of doing so much active work I've
learned over the years activity doesn't
always engage in
productivity right and we as humans are
wired to think more activity means
higher productivity levels where I've
learned and I've seen it happen
firstand proper activity in the proper
direction and proper things will and
always have create more productivity MH
right so it's finding those areas is
that you can go okay well I have this
table where can I win on the 80% table
where can I take 80% of this I don't
care about the other 20% right now let
me take the majority of it that's a
quick win so I I naturally look for okay
immediately quick wins okay where's the
quick win cool where do I pour money
into driving this quick win now I can go
into the 20% but the remaining 20% will
require 89% of effort to achieve that
that's when you go to like perfectionist
level but if I can take that 80% of
something something and put in that
minimal effort not that I'm only putting
minimal effort then imagine what I can
do if I do that over and over and over
again so in trading it's it just for me
it comes comes down to that look at the
similar setups that I'm comfortable with
uh obviously you know go back back to
strategies go back look at what's
happening in the market get comfortable
put in reps get familiar over and over
again those things have to be done but
in terms of when I'm in front of a in
front of a screen if I achieve something
in an hour or two I'm done I'm not going
to sit here for another 5 hours trying
to make more gotten my 80% okay and that
to me I think also mentally allows me to
be more at ease as a Trader than for me
to be like oh I've traded an hour and I
made 35 Grand imagine another hour like
no it's okay I'll walk away you to walk
yeah I'll walk away I'm good we we
mentioned the beginning of the podcast
kind of what you've done for the last 3
four years in your end of year profits
and I forgot to get the question out of
it um so do you first of all do you
always start off with the same amount or
do you just use the profits of the year
before or has each year the starting
balance grow grown no I've always
started with uh roughly about 200 Grand
actually very small relative to your
profit at the end yes and I'll tell you
why cuz so I trade options very heavily
right so if I have my account goes to a
million or $2
million it's it it's very hard for me to
trade option contracts with that much
capital and find liquidity I can't get
in and out as quickly right now if I was
trading equities or if I'm trading
Futures sure you know more money more
profits but in
options I haven't went more than 1,000
or 1,200 contracts which is a lot of
contracts if you ask anyone that trades
options a, or 1,200 contracts on a
position is a lot right and most of the
time that position size equates to 2 to
500 Grand depending on date of
expiration depending on you know uh what
what your trading the cost of the
contract so 2 to 500 Grand is like my
super max position size I'm not I'm not
going above that I don't think in the
past few years I've went above that on
options right and even when I hit 500k
that's when I'm on a hot treek I'm
comfortable uh the Market's in movement
I'm putting out size and putting out
some good trades I'll go to that number
but typically some days it's like 60
Grand 80 grand 70 grand in in you know
position size and with options you're
able to generate 30 40% so if I am going
into a position with 100 Grand and I
don't have you know liquidity problems I
don't have problems getting filled entry
exit all that stuff and I can walk away
making 20% I'm good I I don't need to
scale heavier than that so that's when
when people go well okay well if you did
this much why aren't you starting next
year and I'm like I wish I could I see
it's not that I don't want to I wish I
could I wish I could go into an option
contract tomorrow and put in $6
million and get filled without a problem
I can't that that's just the nature of
options there's not that much open
interest not much liquidity available
so that's why my starting account
balance is to a certain degree that I'm
like okay well I'm not going to go more
than this even when my account goes to
let say a million or 800 Grand or 1
Point whatever I take it out because
it's just Capital sitting being unused I
think there's a cool lesson in there too
that you're not just growing an account
infinitely endlessly for no like you
also take it out every year and you have
a cut off date so the reason I I asked
all of that was to kind of understand
that you've had the ups and downs you
start off at as similar points one year
is huge and next year is still big but
it's not not as um as crazy as the year
before so you've had these es and flows
in your trading Journey over the last
few years and you've also matured as a
lot of as a person going through your
20s which we've covered and I want to
kind of end the podcast on what have you
learned each year in in a trading sense
I mean like at the end of 2020 this is
my biggest lesson 21 this was my biggest
lesson and so forth because when I look
at myself I definitely have my one major
lesson of the year if I could condense
it down do you have something equivalent
for last year I still don't have a
lesson I remember someone asked me uh I
think I think uh Nan asked me uh a
couple of days what was your big I was
like honestly I don't know I haven't
processed it yet cuz so much happened
from like December till you know January
I didn't I didn't process it but uh
there are typical lessons um I usually
write down what what it is like I I do
like a recap for myself on like the
biggest things and whatnot uh I just
learned that you know ultimately the
market is always right in the past few
years as much as you try to justify that
the market is overbought oversold
whatever you want to you know put a bias
on the market will do what it wants to
do right and I've seen that happen with
me countless times I'm like well this
Market is way too overbought or this
particular stock is way way too
overbought you know it has to go down
okay it has to go down but now I have to
time it you know I have to find the
proper entry there's so many other
criterias that go along with it so it's
like okay well unless those things align
and make sense whatever the market is
doing is right cuz that's how the market
is going to function so I think taking
that away
and then the big the second biggest
thing is um you know just because you
had a a big year or big month last month
or last year does not mean you are going
to or you are or the market is going to
lie you to have a big year again right
it's it's like uh in one of Drake's song
he goes do that again right so it's
like a mentality that I follow with
trading and everything again so it's
like that's where when you do get
compliments you do get hides you do get
everything it's like well do it again do
it again okay you had Good Year great
doesn't mean you're going to have
another seven figure year doesn't even
mean you're going to have a profitable
year you had a great week cool reset
again that's trading and then when you
apply that concept to your personal life
where you have a bad day and at the end
of the day you hit reset okay I had a
bad day move on it allows you to move
with a cleaner slate and that works in
during bad days and it also benefits you
during good days because when you have a
good day and you get ahead of yourself
it's very easy to get comfortable and
complacent but if you reset like okay
well for me to achieve what I had
yesterday they have to work twice as
hard it keeps you going and keeps things
moving that lesson that you've just
mentioned was actually my when I have my
list was my lesson from 2 years ago it
was the idea of that I was trying to
control the uncontrollable which is the
market the market is always right so
rather than trying to control that let
me control what are my controllables and
then when I started to understand these
are the things in my control my win rate
my risk reward and XYZ focus on that and
and uh not on the market so that's cool
uh but bro thank you very much I think
this was a fun one and I think let's go
off for lunch and talk thank you app man
thank you
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