L&L with John Benson
Summary
TLDRThe speaker shares his journey from a corporate career to fractional consulting, focusing on change management in sales. He discusses the Kubler-Ross grief cycle's application to corporate change, emphasizing the importance of managing expectations during the 'honeymoon' phase and navigating the 'valley of dissonance.' Drawing from his experience with Sales QB, he outlines a six-step process for improving sales in SMBs and suggests tactics for fostering change adoption, including transparency, support, and leading by example. The talk concludes with an invitation for further discussion among fractional professionals.
Takeaways
- 😀 The speaker transitioned from a corporate career to living on a sailboat in Key West and working on Upwork, illustrating a significant life and career change.
- 📚 He authored a couple of books during his time away from the corporate world, showing a shift towards creative endeavors.
- 🔗 In January, he aligned with Sales QB, a fractional collective focusing on small to medium businesses, indicating a return to professional services with a fractional model.
- 👔 With 40 years of experience in sales, the speaker's expertise lies in this area, highlighting his long-term dedication to sales.
- 📈 He discusses applying change management consulting to CSO projects, suggesting the importance of managing change effectively in business transformations.
- 🎓 The Kubler-Ross grief cycle is introduced as a model for understanding individual reactions to change, which has parallels in corporate change management.
- 🏢 Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC) is mentioned as a major player in IT services, which acquired a boutique consulting firm to enhance their change management practice.
- 📉 The speaker describes the 'valley of dissonance, despair, or destruction' as a phase in change management projects where resistance and discomfort peak.
- 🛠️ He emphasizes the importance of managing expectations and preparing for challenges during the change process, rather than just focusing on the positive outcomes.
- 👥 The speaker suggests involving employees and stakeholders in the change process, and being vigilant about their reactions to minimize negative impacts.
- 💡 The script concludes with an invitation for further discussion, indicating an openness to sharing experiences and learning from others in the field.
Q & A
What was the speaker's professional background before 2007?
-Before 2007, the speaker had a background in corporate fractional SAS, working with companies to implement Enterprise SAS solutions, train their staff, and establish new channels.
What significant life change did the speaker make in 2007?
-In 2007, the speaker scheduled a midlife crisis, bought a sailboat, and moved to Key West, where he lived on a sailboat for a decade.
What did the speaker do during his time away from corporate work?
-During his time away, the speaker took a few years to become a writer and authored a couple of books.
How did the speaker get involved with Upwork?
-The speaker discovered Upwork in 2011 and joined the platform, through which he conducted a significant amount of business with hundreds of clients.
What is Sales QB and how did the speaker align with it?
-Sales QB is a fractional collective of individuals specializing in fractional practice at the small to medium business layer. The speaker aligned with Sales QB in January to work on projects involving companies with revenues between 2 million to 15 million.
What is the Kubler Ross grief cycle and how is it related to change management?
-The Kubler Ross grief cycle, developed by Elizabeth Kubler Ross in the 1960s, describes the stages of grief people go through after a significant loss. It has been adapted to describe how companies go through a similar cycle when change is induced.
What was Jim Champy's contribution to change management consulting?
-Jim Champy, who ran the Index Group and was later acquired by CSC, is known as the father of change management consulting. He pioneered the application of change management theory to corporate America.
How does the speaker describe the honeymoon phase in a change project?
-The honeymoon phase in a change project is characterized by excitement and positivity, where everyone is looking forward to the benefits of the change, such as improved business systems or increased revenue.
What is the 'Valley of Dissonance, Despair, or Destruction' in the context of change management?
-The 'Valley of Dissonance, Despair, or Destruction' refers to the phase in a change project where the reality of the change starts to set in, causing discomfort, potential project failures, and resistance among team members.
What is the speaker's approach to managing the amplitude of emotions during the change management process?
-The speaker aims to manage the amplitude of emotions by tempering excitement during the honeymoon phase and being vigilant for signs of dissonance, despair, or destruction during the valley phase, to minimize the depth of the negative impact.
What are some of the tactical activities the speaker suggests to encourage adoption of a change management cycle?
-The speaker suggests acknowledging change, providing context, being transparent, supporting human resources, empathizing, listening, addressing fears, facilitating and exploring acceptance, providing resources, leading by example, involving employees, monitoring progress, and having a feedback loop.
How does the speaker handle resistance to change within a sales team?
-The speaker handles resistance by being disciplined and empathetic but also by having the authority to release team members who do not cooperate. In more difficult cases, they may change the compensation plan to encourage performance or 'starve them out' of the company.
What is the speaker's experience with fractional engagements and how does it relate to change management?
-The speaker's experience with fractional engagements involves working with small businesses to improve their sales processes. This involves a six-step process that maps into the change management curve, which includes conducting a sales audit, improving lead generation, developing repeatable sales processes, improving CRM systems, enhancing sales management, and coaching and training.
How does the speaker approach managing change in a company that has been traditionally resistant to it?
-The speaker approaches managing change by leading with honesty, transparency, and communication. They also emphasize the importance of having a clear end goal and understanding the business's needs for improved performance.
What is the speaker's method for dealing with teams that are resistant to change?
-The speaker suggests finding bottom-up pain points that the process improvements will resolve, which can help sell the changes to the team and gain their acceptance and compliance.
How does the speaker handle the emotional aspect of change management?
-The speaker uses humor and transparency to handle the emotional aspect of change management. They openly acknowledge the change and its potential discomfort, and they provide context to help team members understand the reasons behind the change.
What is the speaker's view on the importance of executive support in change management?
-The speaker believes that executive support is crucial in change management, especially when facing resistance. They suggest leveraging resources at the executive level and finding champions within the organization who can help push the agenda.
Outlines
🚀 Transition to Fractional Sales and Change Management Consulting
The speaker recounts their professional journey from working in corporate environments to becoming a fractional sales professional. Initially involved with enterprise software in the late 1990s to early 2000s, they took a sabbatical to write books and later discovered Upwork in 2011. They have since worked with hundreds of clients on diverse projects. In January, they joined sales QB, a fractional collective focusing on small to medium businesses. The speaker has 40 years of sales experience and shares a story about applying change management consulting to projects, referencing the Kubler Ross grief cycle as a foundational concept in understanding how individuals and organizations react to change.
📚 Insights into Change Management and Corporate America
The speaker delves into the concept of change management, drawing parallels between the Kubler Ross grief cycle and how companies respond to change. They explain that changes such as new divisions, software, or operational shifts can trigger a cycle of reactions similar to grief, including denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. The speaker then discusses Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC), a major IT services provider, and its acquisition of Jim Champy's boutique consulting firm, which led to the development of change management consulting practices. Champy's work suggested that the techniques used by psychiatrists to help individuals cope with grief could also be applied to corporate change management.
🛠 Application of Change Management in Sales Projects
The speaker outlines their experience with change management, particularly in the context of a sales project for USAA, a large insurance corporation. They describe the process of engaging with Holland and Davis, a boutique firm in Houston, to compete against industry giants like CSC for an IT project. The project involved applying change management principles to IT projects, observing the reactions of stakeholders and executives throughout the process. The speaker emphasizes the importance of managing expectations and preparing for the 'valley of dissonance' that often follows the initial excitement of a change project.
🔍 Navigating the Change Management Curve in Sales
The speaker discusses the application of the change management curve in sales projects, using the framework of a sales QB project as an example. They describe a six-step process that includes a sales audit, lead generation improvements, development of repeatable sales processes, CRM system enhancements, sales management improvements, and coaching and training. The speaker notes that the initial excitement of a project can lead to a 'valley of dissonance' where challenges arise, and it's crucial to manage expectations to avoid this phase becoming too severe. They emphasize the importance of transparency and setting realistic expectations during the project's early stages.
🤝 Human Resource Strategies for Change Management
The speaker focuses on the human resource aspects of change management, highlighting the importance of empathy, active listening, and addressing fears during the transition. They discuss the need to provide support and resources to help employees adapt to new processes and systems. The speaker shares personal anecdotes, such as helping an account executive adjust to new sales methods, and emphasizes the importance of transparency and proactive communication. They also mention the use of group sessions to foster a sense of community and shared experience among team members going through change.
🌐 Cross-Functional Collaboration in Change Management
The speaker discusses the importance of cross-functional collaboration in managing change, particularly in the context of ethics and compliance. They share an example of engaging different departments to identify pain points and develop solutions, making the change process feel seamless. The speaker emphasizes the value of involving various stakeholders in the change process, leveraging their expertise and influence to drive the necessary adjustments and improvements.
🔧 Managing Resistance to Change in Sales Teams
The speaker addresses the challenge of managing sales teams that resist change, drawing from their experience as a turnaround agent for underperforming sales teams. They discuss the importance of honesty, transparency, and communication in gaining buy-in from team members. The speaker also talks about the tactics used to deal with resistance, such as leveraging executive support and finding champions within the organization. They acknowledge the difficulty of managing change in such environments and the need for a disciplined yet empathetic approach.
🤔 Overcoming Change Resistance: Perspectives from Sales, COO, and CMO Roles
The speaker invites input from a chief operating officer and a chief marketing officer regarding their experiences with change management. They discuss strategies for dealing with resistance to change, such as finding bottom-up pain points and leveraging executive influence. The conversation highlights the importance of aligning stakeholders and having open communication channels. The speaker also shares their approach to managing change, which includes being prepared to make tough decisions if necessary.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Fractional SaaS
💡Midlife Crisis
💡Upwork
💡Change Management
💡Kubler-Ross Grief Cycle
💡Computer Sciences Corporation (CSC)
💡Sales QB
💡Valley of Dissonance
💡USAA
💡Sales Audit
Highlights
Transition from corporate to fractional SAS, leveraging a Rolodex for enterprise layer consulting.
Midlife crisis led to a move to Key West and a decade of living on a sailboat.
Became a writer and discovered Upwork in 2011, leading to hundreds of clients and diverse projects.
Aligned with Sales QB, focusing on fractional practice for small to medium businesses.
Involvement in change management consulting, particularly for CSO projects.
Introduction of the Kubler Ross grief cycle as a model for understanding change processes.
Computer Sciences Corporation's (CSC) role in IT services and change management consulting.
Jim Champy's acquisition by CSC and the integration of change management consulting.
Application of change management theory to corporate America, including the honeymoon and valley phases.
USAA project win and the experience of living inside a change management project.
Sales QB's six-step process for fractional engagements in small businesses.
Correlation between the amplitude of excitement and the depth of discomfort during change.
Strategic management of emotions during the selling and early implementation cycle.
Importance of being vigilant during the dissonance, despair, or destruction phase of change.
Tactical activities for encouraging adoption of change management cycles.
Acknowledging change and providing context to executives and salespeople.
Human support during change, including empathy and addressing fears.
Facilitating acceptance and providing resources to aid in the transition.
Dealing with resistance to change, including strategies for managing non-adopters.
Transcripts
started on a
story uh about one of the SB experiences
that that led to this area of awareness
um from 2000 or 1997 to 2007 I was just
a typical corporate fractional SAS was
just starting to come out at the
Enterprise layer um so I had a a good
Rolodex and I would work with companies
on on six and nemon uh uh trips to uh to
get their Enterprise sass up train their
people produce playbooks open up new
channels um I scheduled my midlife
crisis for May 3rd in uh in uh 2007 um I
bought a saleboat and moved to Key West
so I have lived on a sailboat in Key
West for a decade and uh took three or
four years out to be a riter and wrote a
couple books um found this little bitty
system called upwork in
2011 and joined upwork and have done
just a an enormous amount of business
through upwork um hundreds of clients
all sorts of stuff um uh most recently
in January I aligned with sales QB um
it's a sort of a fractional Collective
of uh individuals that enjoy the the
fractional practice at the small to
medium business layer so my typical
projects are joining companies that are
2 million to 13 to 15 million to account
Executives
468 um kind of Frontline of sales so um
uh I've been in sales for 40 years and
it's it's my thing and I'm going to tell
you a story about um applic applying um
change management consulting to cso
projects or um any other types of
projects so we have already been through
this all right and I've talked a little
bit about what's going on now this is
kind of where we're going to start right
here um and the the story of how I got
into this is um based on a a job
experience I had from 1990 to 1997 and I
got hooked up with a little bitty IT
consulting firm we had visions of
grandeur to compete with the big six at
the time and hit client server just
right and grew to 650 resources now this
is kind of the interesting way to start
this how many folks have heard of the
Kubler Ross grief cycle okay this was um
a a change curve that was pioneered by a
psychologist in the
1960s um by the name of Elizabeth Kubler
Ross and it's basically designed to of
all things describe the grieving process
if there is an event in your life or you
learn of impending doom or lose somebody
and it has been shown that statistically
most people go through a curve where
they have a denial phase and it's going
to be okay and then they go through
anger bargaining depression and
acceptance so an entire psychological
practice has been developed around kuer
Ross's grief cycle all righty so that's
kind of fact number one now here is fact
number two um there's a company called
Computer Sciences Corporation now in CSC
was started in the
1960s and it became a multinational
provider of IT services um operations in
North America Europe Asia Australia they
had just a a huge government presence
and they were inside of the military
NASA um the IRS and they also had a um a
a Consulting practice in the commercial
area and just so you know how these guys
ended up in 2017 a little while back
they merged with h HP the Enterprise
Services Group but back in the
1990s CSC was a major player it was said
in the same terms of Anderson at the
time and price and Ernst and deoe um so
that was the type of firm they had now
this is where it gets interesting in
1988 a gentleman by the name of Jim
champy who was running a boutique
Consulting organization called the index
group based out of a location very close
to MIT and MIT was a part of his
research lab was purchased by CSC so
essentially CSC said hey we're going to
go pick up the gentleman who is now
known as the father of change management
consulting as an acquisition so now we
have this company doing massive PR s and
they purchased this Boutique Consulting
and are literally on The Cutting Edge of
change management now what did this
gentleman do for us and this is just
super fascinating what he figured out
was that although this is the grief
cycle from Kubler Ross companies go
through the exact same type of cycle
when change is induced and what can
change mean it can mean opening a new
division it can mean hiring new
individuals it can mean putting in new
enterprise software it can mean changing
operations anything that has a
structural or human resources impact on
an organization is a candidate for the
change management curve and the great
realization of the industry is that the
techniques that
psychiatrists use to help people deal
with their change management grief cycle
also happens to work in Corporate
America so I'm going to explain this
briefly and then we're gonna we're going
to go to the story about how this worked
out okay so um the first thing that
happens um in a change project briefly
is there's usually a honeymoon period
wow this is great we're going to bring
in a new fractional coo and they're
going to get all of our business systems
working better woohoo let's go
wow this is great we're going to bring
it in a new CSO and he is going to
unlock with the golden keys to the
kingdom more revenue for us and as
you've been through these projects you
know people tend to get excited
everybody's talking faster and this is a
great thing and then they have the oh oh
my moment and the oh my moment is when
change actually starts happening we're
doing our very first development of new
processes we're starting to roll out new
software we have new marketing programs
that are impacting us and what often
happens is that we move down into what
is now called the valley of dissonance
despair or destruction and depending on
how deep you go you go from an area of
dissonance wow this is kind of
uncomfortable to me to projects fall
apart initiatives are cancelled and
there is termination to work eorts
however after you get through this if
the change oriented project is
structured correctly regardless of coo
or coo or CSO or CMO we turn the corner
and we start um developing acceptance of
change the new systems kick in people
become acclimated to their environments
and we grow better and stronger than
where we started over here okay now
let's talk about what happened and why I
learned about this all right there's a
company called USAA I was working in
Houston for this little bitty at the
time 45 or 50 Resource company and we
heard about a project at USAA huge
multi- multi multi-billion dollar
Insurance Corporation and they had
brought our firm in to bid on an IT
project and since CSC had been so
aligned with the government a lot of the
executives knew these guys so they
brought in CSC and and champy and his
change management practice well our
company was about this big compared to
these guys and we did it inflammation we
didn't know anything about management
consulting so I found a little Boutique
firm called Holland and Davis in Houston
and I said hey let's team together and
put in a bid against these goliaths
right here and everybody said sure why
not let's give it a try so we took a bid
team into this now the fun part about
this is this these guys knew this guy so
they were kind of um what word am I
looking for colleagues and well-versed
in change management and they worked out
a deal with me they said John if you'll
sell this project as our sales guy um
and win we're going to bring you in as a
member of our change management team
you're going to get to carry briefcases
paish SHO sharpen pencils and create
PowerPoints but we're actually going to
involve you in this project in so much
as you have time for that so John and
his effervescent Sales Spirit going up
against some poor CSC account executive
won so we won USAA and it ended up being
um a couple $2 million IT projects so
now my consulting company is in and this
company is in and I got to live inside
of a change management project not once
but twice and watch how all of this
stuff that champy had pioneered and how
we took the application of change
management theory that we're about to
talk about into it projects all right
I'm going to pause for just a second
right now does anybody have any comments
or questions or things that they've
experienced and if nobody has anything
to say I'll keep going
ready onward we go now I have to have a
frame of reference um to talk about the
applications of the techniques that we
use here and I'm going to use the frame
of reference of a sales QB project um it
is a a standard fractional engagement
where you walk in at the beginning and
at the end we all all hope we're selling
better so my apologies to my CMO
colleagues my coo colleagues um this
will be in the frame of reference of a
sales project but it's so basic I think
um everybody's going to understand this
okay now just as a background this
little infographic is how sales QBs
position their project I'll cover it in
five seconds then we'll focus on the
change management side um when we come
into a small business we go hey we'd
like to do six things in about this
order the first thing we'd like to do um
is a sales audit and then after we have
those results the next thing we'd like
to do is we'd like to take a look at
your lead generation and how that can be
improved stabilized so that we have
opportunities to grow sales the third
thing we do is we start developing
repeatable sales processes the first
thing we do is we get inside of the CRM
and perhaps other electronic systems to
improve that the fifth thing we do is
improve the Sales Management by holding
meetings getting people used to quotas
things of that nature and the sixth
thing we do is is just coach and and
train and help people so that's our
basic six-step process what I have found
is that um this absolutely Maps into the
change management curve so let me
explain what is happening here I will
come in and do a a sales best practice
audit or come in and position all of the
good things that are going to happen
right here and clients get excited
they're really happy to be talking to
you they think this is going to be a
positive change in their organization
they're starting to count the dollars
saved by the COO or the leads generated
by the CMO or the revenue gained by the
the chief sales officer and that also
tends to extend through this second
phase that I do which is a focus on lead
inbounds now here is the secret to
success and it is absolutely
counterintuitive what can't be proved is
that the amplitude of excitement in the
honeymoon period tends to correlate to
the depth of the amplitude during the
valley phase so the recommendations from
these pioneers of change management is
counterintuitive and it's particularly
hard for a high energy sales guy like me
to do I
specifically bring down the emotions
during the selling and early
implementation cycle I don't tell them
oh my gosh this is going to be super
hard you guys have no idea what's coming
but I do say there are going to be times
where this may be uncomfortable okay not
everything is going to work perfectly
some of our staff may not transition and
have to go we're going to have growth
and development but it's going to be
harder than you think and I've actually
said that to clients and they kind of
blinked twice and they would say why are
you telling me that now and I say
because when it's harder then you will
expect it so the first thing I do in the
early part of any project right here is
to try to bring down the amplitude of
everybody's let's get really excited
feelings okay now let's take a mid-stage
set of activities my mid-stage set of
activities are creating proven
repeatable sales processes and coming in
and probably realigning the CRM there
are mid-stage sales processes in the CMO
world the COO world that are different
but this is where we're trying to get
into the project and actually do the fun
fundamental work that will create the
change that we're doing now the issue
here is there are three levels of
amplitude here that are classically
called dissonance despair or destruction
and what I do is put myself on guard for
determining whether or not the
organization is experiencing
dissonance are key stakeholders
experiencing dissonance are key
Executives experiencing dissonance is
this just too much for them are people
starting to vibrate or
despair or destruction and it's
incredibly important to be vigilant of
this and reach out and take your
temperatures and the whole goal is to
minimize the depth of the amplitude of
this so that you don't get below the
despair dissonance line and into
destruction
now what happens after that in my
particular model um I get to uh
deploying The Proven repeatable sales
processes okay we can take a big breath
and now we're going to start doing this
and we're having our sales meetings and
we're building our culture and all of
the other things that do and I've got my
little sales training books that I get
everybody to buy and I'm telling them
turn to page 17 I'm going to teach you
about this and people are starting to
feel a little bit better about that and
the goal here is this has not gone as
deep so we can grow faster and on a
higher trajectory so in my world and I
would encourage in your world to think
about meta
Milestones the 1 two 3 four five six or
seven or eight or nine things that you
do that tend to be in a sequence to
start your projects or Implement new
initiatives and kind of set them off and
say okay I'm in the honeymoon period
right here what am I trying to do I'm
trying to reduce all of the giddy
feelings okay this is kind of where I
tend to be um in the um interim phase
rolling out new stuff what I'm going
going to do I'm going to be very aware
of people in organizational rack
responses from dissonance and bring it
up if there is Despair and here we have
the end point okay now let's see here so
those are the three boxes that I just
described and it might even be fun for
you folks in your own practice areas to
draw out a little bitty map like this
just to remind yourself okay I'm in
honeymoon here I've got to manage the
blue feelings I am in Valley here I've
got to manage the red feelings and I am
in stable growth here I'm trying to
manage the green feelings all righty
let's talk about where the rubber meets
the road here are Tactical activities to
encourage adoption of a change
management cycle all righty the first
thing that I do and I've already alluded
to this is I acknowledge change I start
by opening o openly acknowledging to the
executives in the in the organization I
work with and most importantly the
salespeople to say we're going to be
undergoing some change things are going
to be happening in different ways they
may feel uncomfortable there's going to
be eort on your part it may be a little
bit upsetting but let's be excited and
have a vision for 6 months from now and
I provide context I will give you an
example of this that I did today okay
account Executives we probably have been
a little laxed in the fast we're going
to start meeting every morning at 9:00
am for an amp up and ramp up meeting and
we're going to start meeting every
evening at 5:00 p.m. to talk about how
our sales day is gone now this is going
to make you feel a little comfortable
now you're going to have to be doing
things in a different way but give me a
couple months okay let's just understand
the context of meeting in a different
way and I am absolutely super
transparent um I have found that it's
better to give
clients harsh and bad and difficult news
than it is for them to find out for
their own so particularly in sales a lot
of people are always trying to be super
positive um I have just found they
completely appreciate transparency all
righty what are some of the other things
to do um
support um particularly for those of you
are working on the um HR side um human
support during this is incredibly
important I had to empathize yesterday
with my new account executive David
David likes to make sales calls walking
around that's just how he is we're not
going to be doing that anymore we're
going to be doing Zoom meetings not
phone calls so I need to get him to
learn to sit down and present on Zoom he
doesn't get to be a young man walking
around the office and and being a a
Traer for example and I said it's hard
David I know it's not as much fun but
this is just very important to do so we
add visual blah blah blah blah BL blah
um obviously the nature of listening
actively addressing fears again huge
human resource Factor one of the
greatest fears I experience is what's
going to happen to my income on
commission by virtue of your new
repeatable sales processes by virtue of
how this new CRM is going to address me
um a technique that I use is that Friday
at 4M um I host um a what I call Hunters
only session for all of the salespeople
across all of my clients to come we
crack open a bottle of wine or get an
iced tea or have a Jack and Coke and we
talk about our week what did it feel
like to lose those deals do we feel like
other people are selling better than us
and we have almost like a kind of a
group therapy for this so the way to
deal with change is work the HR side
empathize listen address
fears okay and facilitate and explore
acceptance provide resources okay I'm
taking you into a new sales process but
here's your sales um here's your sales
Playbook these are all the steps I want
you to take I've provided templates for
you to use here are emails for you to
use so these are all the techniques that
you can do to encourage adoption and
lead by example involve employees
monitor progress have a feedback loop
and so forth and so on now I've kept it
really short I just want to open up the
floor to discussion and I'm going to go
one by one so nobody just sits there
quiet Darcy tell me one example of a
change project that you're in and did
this apply and what did you do share one
experience with
us um yeah so I'm I'm not actively
working on any at the moment but my
previous employer was uh you were
talking about um getting into SAS and my
previous employer was a software company
that had a long history with on premise
and was moving into into cloud and SAS
and so I was working in a transformation
office where we were trying to help
everyone internally um kind of get to
that stage and I think there was a lot
of understanding that that there was
acceptance that that was the way the
company was moving and that we needed to
go there but when we started getting
into gra brass tax around you know this
is this we we've got to change some
processes here and you got to start
working with other functional partners
and you know you have what you have in
your head for how it worked in the past
is not going to work moving forward and
I think that was where I started to
experience as a person who was coming in
with the you know the flags for
championing the change I started getting
a little bit of you know foot dragging
and resistance and things like that
where it was like okay I get that we
need to do this but I don't want to
specifically change what I'm doing I
know what I'm doing in my head and I
don't want to do it differently so you
know that that curve very much resonates
with me I had experienced it before but
never thought about it in the context of
of all this um sure so yeah that that
definitely resonates um one of the uh
the fun things that I do is and it's a
little bit dangerous because you never
know a person's home life but I will
actually print out the Kubler Ross curve
and I'll print out the change management
curve and I will hand them the change
management curve and I say we're in the
Valley right now and then I will hinder
the Kubler Ross death and dying and go
but nobody's going to die and everybody
laughs and has a good time with that and
there's a little bit of risk there
because you never know if somebody's
grandmother is sick or not um get and
jolly what would you like to contribute
do you have anything that you would like
to add what has your experience
been um so I'm in the business as I
mentioned earlier ethics and compliance
which is the soft touchy things that
touch culture so there's a lot of change
management I think the way that I've
tried
to get folks on board is to bring in
those cross functional Partners the
different department so I mean one
example is a policy on third-party risk
yeah bringing in the commercial teams
bringing in the procurement teams asking
them to find their pain points um and
then bringing the solutions right having
them drive but then also having them
lead the trainings and what it is that
we're trying to adjust and so that it
feels seamless as if it's always been
there yeah yeah you know there's
something you just said that that I'm
gonna I'm going to put in the computer
and keep there um during the honeymoon
period it it may be something for me to
do to actually put together a formal
risk document and say okay guys as we go
into the valley here are the risks that
I see and share that as part of reducing
the amplitude um on the honeymoon period
Chris um any comments things that you'd
like to say um areas that you can
share
um just a different a different angle um
is in trying to put process improvements
in place uh try to find pain points even
for the people that are going to have to
be dealing with the process so it's not
a necessarily a top down thing but try
to find uh you know bottom up pain
points that are going to be resolved by
the process so I had an example of an
engineering team that was that was
pretty bad at estimating
projects and um and that caused problems
for the for the company um having
disappointed customers
um and uh but it also caused problems
for the engineers because they ended up
having to work overtime and and that
sort of thing to uh to make up for their
poor estimates so in putting a process
in place I was able to kind of sell it
to both you know the engineers hey it's
going to be more work for you up front
and it's going to feel a little bit
rigid but it's going to save you pain on
the end that helped with acceptance and
compliance as well
C is it cabon did I pronounce that
correctly ma'am hey there it's h sioban
shobon Gallaher uh just calling dialing
in from London so hi everybody um very
interesting to hear your presentation
John um so I'll give you a bit of
background around my situation I have
worked for a number of private Equity uh
firms who have
acquired uh SAS companies that's s I'm a
SAS go to market leader um with 20 odd
years experience and so I I basically
come in and I'm a turnaround agent I am
hard to ramp up under performing sales
teams and I'm interested to
know uh basically how do you manage
teams that actually don't want to change
um
because I you're post that seems very
simple but um you know for me I've had
teams that are just there's no buying
and there's not really a lot of buying
from the founders either and quite
frankly there's been quite a lot of push
back sometimes uh or people are
sometimes actively working against me
where if I've been brought in and the
incumbent is still in place and you know
very difficult situation to manage
so how do you how do you operate I mean
for me um I'm I lead with honesty
transparency um and
communication sometimes the business is
not quite clear where what the end goal
is apart from improved
performance any advice that the group
can give i' be very uh open to receive
we're going to do a roundabout on that
and I'll do the sales one and then
perhaps Jessica or one of our Coos can
do a COO version and then I believe
Nadia you're a CMO um or whomever is a
CMO can do this I will shend the sales
version for five minutes and and you're
about to see me take a extremely sad
demeanor now do keep in mind I work in
small businesses 2 million to five or 15
million so I have a vastly more flexible
human resource his environment to do
this um there is sadness on my face
because on average one out of the four
account Executives that I adopt in a
sales QB sales turnaround doesn't make
it literally I have uh 25% on average
attrition ratio and I never know who
it's going to be when I walk in um but I
do know that some of them are going to
fight with me over this and I have an
arranged with the executives in advance
that I have higher and Fire Authority um
and about a week and a half into this I
let the sales team know that I
absolutely can release you and we'll do
it professionally um but this is due or
go um with me so I have um a disciplined
empathetic approach but I fire people if
they don't play ball with me um that's
number one in cases where it's more
difficult to fire people um if they
don't cooperate I simply starve them out
of the company okay I change their comp
plan and make their base go way down and
I make their commission go way up and if
they're not selling it starves them out
of the company we um divest from EOC and
all of those things that is the horrible
ugly side of my business that is what
keeps me going back to my um Episcopal
church every Sunday and asking myself in
front of those that should evaluate me
am I doing the right thing um salese
have to deal with people that don't
adopt a change in very severe ways let
me get that ugliness out of it right now
is there a chief operating officer Among
Us who would speak to how you deal with
companies that are not accepting change
that are putting up blocks something
that can positive and bring our spirit
back up Jessica I'm looking at you and
hoping you have some words to share here
yeah it's it's interesting because I
think similar to you John a lot of the
compan comp I've been at have been
smaller kind of early stage startups
high growth startups so my ability
to I don't know maneuver or you know
influence the change is higher than if
you're at like a larger
organization
um but I I tend to try to go back to
some of the tactics we were already
talking about I think um it was Chris
who made a good point about what's that
bottom up approach and how can you like
continue to find the ways that someone
can get bought into the
change um and then also leveraging your
resources at the executive level if
you're especially if you're coming in
from the outside and you're getting
pushed up against resistance like who
are your Champions within the
organization who have influence and can
push the agenda as needed so if it's you
know in your case like the private
Equity firms or whoever is hiring you
that have to come in and and you know
throw some weight around I don't think
that's necessarily a failure on you it's
it's the support that you need to kind
of get to the outcomes you're you know
are right for the business um sure I
don't know if that's helpful but no
that's very helpful and I think maybe um
that's that's one of the key things
where um the private Equity Fund we're
still not quite uh they were aligned to
the CEO and he I I didn't have her or
far I had har in par but not far in
par I think that's the critical
difference
because um if I had it might have made
it easier but yeah all very valid points
thank you absolutely um I'd love to hear
from one of our chief marketing officers
marketing and change management you're
literally changing to the world how
companies are being presented they're
messaging their positioning um the types
of inbounds that you create is there a
chief marketing officer Among Us that
has been through a change project and
either had challenges that they had to
solve who among the CMOS will speak with
us you know the CMOS are the quietest
ones on the planet really they really
are they're going to let their Google
sponsored ads do the talking so we're
just going to let them do with that okay
I'm going to go ahead and wrap it up now
but before everybody leaves I'm going to
type in my um email address it's john.
Benson
salesqb
docomo please send me a note I think it
would be great to just go have an iced
tea somewhere near downtown there are
only a few fractionals in Nashville we
can get to know each other so um I'll
buy the first round of ice tea um
anybody that would like to talk to me
later about whatever topics are welcome
to call me okay thank you so much for
your time and I hope
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