Palmer Luckey Wants to Be Silicon Valley's War King | The Circuit

Summary

The transcript details a conversation with Palmer Luckey, the founder of Anduril Industries, a defense technology company. Luckey discusses the need for modernization in the U.S. defense industry, expressing concerns about the country's outdated and expensive legacy systems. He shares his vision of integrating Silicon Valley innovation with defense technology, aiming to compete for a share of the Pentagon's budget. The discussion touches on the historical relationship between the tech industry and the military, Luckey's personal journey from virtual reality to defense, and the challenges of working within the bureaucratic defense sector. It also explores the potential of AI in warfare, the ethical considerations of autonomous systems, and the current geopolitical landscape, particularly the conflict in Ukraine and its implications for future military strategies. Luckey emphasizes the importance of human accountability in the use of AI in warfare and the need for the U.S. to adapt quickly to emerging threats.

Takeaways

• 🚤 The Mark 5 Special Operations craft is a fast and advanced boat designed for Navy SEAL missions, symbolizing the push for modernization in military technology.
• 💰 Palmer Luckey's defense company, Anduril, aims to disrupt the Pentagon's $850 billion budget by introducing Silicon Valley innovation to the defense industry.
• 📈 Luckey criticizes the US for investing in legacy weapon systems that are not keeping pace with emerging threats, particularly from China.
• 🤝 The collaboration between tech and defense industries has a long history, with post-WWII investments fueling the rise of Silicon Valley.
• 🚀 Anduril's initial product was an autonomous security tower for border surveillance, which has since expanded to include a range of advanced military technologies.
• 🎮 Luckey's background in virtual reality and gaming has influenced his approach to defense technology, with applications in heads-up displays and augmented reality for the military.
• 🤖 Anduril is developing AI-driven systems like Lattice, which act as intelligent control centers for their hardware, emphasizing the importance of software in modern warfare.
• 🚀 Anduril's approach contrasts with traditional defense contractors by focusing on building and selling products that work, rather than getting paid for R&D.
• 🤖 The company is exploring the use of AI in autonomous vehicles and drones, with the potential for AI fighter jets and counter-drone systems.
• 🌐 The Pentagon's Project Maven is an example of the military's increasing reliance on AI, despite concerns about its ethical implications and readiness for combat.
• 🚢 Luckey's personal collection, including a Mark 5 warship and a 1967 Disneyland Autopia, reflects his passion for technology and innovation.

Q & A

What type of boat is Palmer Luckey driving in the beginning of the transcript?

Palmer Luckey is driving a Mark 5 Special Operations craft, which is a fast boat designed for Navy SEAL insertion and extraction missions.

What is the main concern expressed about the current state of the United States' defense technology?

The main concern is that the United States' defense technology is outdated, expensive, and not adapted to the types of conflicts expected in the future. There is a significant investment in legacy weapon systems that may not deter modern adversaries like China.

How does Palmer Luckey's defense company aim to change the Pentagon's approach to defense?

Palmer Luckey's company aims to bring Silicon Valley speed and innovation to the Pentagon by competing for a share of the Pentagon's budget and reinventing how they do business from the outside in, provided they can convince the top brass of their seriousness and capability.

What is the significance of the Disneyland Autopia vehicle in Palmer Luckey's collection?

The Disneyland Autopia vehicle is significant because it is a 1967 model designed by Bob Gurr and Walt Disney, and Palmer Luckey claims his is the only complete Autopia outside of the parks, with original mechanicals, gearboxes, and wheels.

What is the role of Anduril's AI-driven system called Lattice?

Lattice is an AI system that acts as an intelligent control center for Anduril's hardware, processing data for computer vision, machine learning, and creating an operating picture of the world to aid in decision-making for autonomous systems.

What is the 'Valley of Death' in the context of the defense industry?

The 'Valley of Death' refers to the challenging process that startups face when trying to bring new ideas from prototype to adoption within the defense industry. The lengthy and complex bureaucracy often leads to the failure of most startups.

How does Anduril's business model differ from traditional defense contractors?

Anduril operates as a defense products company that manufactures and sells functional products rather than being paid to conduct research and development. This model incentivizes efficiency and innovation, as faster development and production contribute to better profit margins.

What is the significance of the war in Ukraine for the US defense industry?

The war in Ukraine has highlighted the need for the US defense industry to modernize quickly. It has also demonstrated the effectiveness of using AI and autonomous systems in warfare, which could influence future development and procurement strategies.

What is the role of AI in distinguishing between enemy and non-enemy targets?

AI is being developed to analyze data and assist in identifying targets more accurately. However, human responsibility remains crucial for the deployment of weapon systems, and AI is not intended to replace human decision-making in these matters.

How does Palmer Luckey view the potential misuse of technology on American citizens?

Luckey acknowledges the potential for misuse but emphasizes trust in the system and democracy. He believes that there are checks and balances in place, and that the focus should be on policy to control the use of technology appropriately.

What are the challenges faced by the US military in terms of technological competition with China?

The US faces significant challenges, particularly in shipbuilding capacity where China has a considerable advantage. The US must innovate and leverage its strengths in technology and AI to maintain a competitive edge in potential conflicts.

Outlines

00:00

🚤 High-Speed Navy Craft and Modern Defense Concerns

The speaker discusses driving a Mark 5 Special Operations craft, highlighting its speed and purpose for Navy SEAL missions. He expresses concerns about the outdated and expensive U.S. technology, suggesting that his defense company aims to modernize the Pentagon's approach. The narrative touches on the historical connection between Silicon Valley and the military, and the current need for innovation in the defense industry due to global conflicts.

05:01

💰 The Shift from Silicon Valley to Defense and the Challenges Within

The speaker, Palmer Luckey, reflects on his transition from the tech industry, where he created a prototype for modern VR, to the defense sector. He talks about the controversy surrounding his political donation and the subsequent rift with Silicon Valley. Luckey's focus on defense technology is driven by his experiences and observations of inefficiencies within the industry. He also discusses the difficulties that tech startups face in breaking into the defense market, which is dominated by a few large companies.

10:01

🤖 Building Autonomous Defense Systems and AI's Role in Warfare

The narrative delves into the development of autonomous defense systems by Anduril, including security towers, submarines, and drones. The company's approach contrasts with traditional contractors by selling products rather than receiving payment for R&D. The speaker emphasizes the potential of AI in warfare, predicting future engagements between AI-controlled systems. He also addresses concerns about AI misuse and the importance of maintaining human responsibility and accountability in deploying weapon systems.

15:02

🚀 Anduril's AI System, Lattice, and the Ethical Considerations of AI in Defense

The speaker describes Lattice, Anduril's AI-driven system that serves as a control center for their hardware. He outlines the process of using autonomous systems for military operations, emphasizing the value of牺牲ing these systems for intelligence. The discussion extends to the ethical implications of AI in warfare, including liability and the potential for civilian casualties. The speaker advocates for human accountability and better solutions to minimize unintended harm.

20:07

🌐 China's Technological Advancements and the US's Strategic Response

The speaker shares his insights on China's capabilities in AI and manufacturing, reflecting on the U.S.'s dependency on Chinese supply chains. He expresses concerns about China's military shipbuilding capacity and the potential for conflict in the Pacific. The narrative explores the necessity for the U.S. to innovate strategically to maintain its military edge, suggesting that traditional methods of warfare may no longer suffice.

25:12

🚢 Personal Arsenal and the Impact of Economic Realities on Innovation

The speaker showcases his personal collection of military and technological artifacts, including a high-speed boat and a video game collection. He discusses the impact of economic conditions on startup funding, suggesting that the scarcity of capital has led to more practical and necessary innovations. The speaker also contemplates the U.S.'s preparedness for global conflicts and the potential response to aggressive actions by China, emphasizing the need for agility and swift adaptation in the face of emerging threats.

Keywords

💡Palmer Luckey

Palmer Luckey is the founder of Anduril Industries, a defense technology company. He is known for his work in virtual reality, having created the Oculus Rift, which was later acquired by Facebook for $2 billion. In the script, Luckey discusses his transition from Silicon Valley to the defense industry and his vision for modernizing military technology.

💡Navy SEAL

Navy SEALs are the United States Navy's primary special operations force. They are known for their expertise in maritime, air, and land operations. The script mentions a 'Mark 5 Special Operations craft' designed for 'Navy SEAL insertion and extraction missions,' highlighting the advanced capabilities of the boat for these elite forces.

💡Silicon Valley

Silicon Valley is a region in Northern California known for its high-tech innovation and venture capital. In the script, Luckey contrasts the speed and innovation of Silicon Valley with the slower, more bureaucratic processes of the Pentagon, indicating a desire to bring the former's agility to the latter.

💡Legacy weapon systems

Legacy weapon systems refer to older, established military technologies that may not be as adaptable or effective in modern conflicts. The script points out that the United States has invested heavily in these systems, which may not deter adversaries like China effectively.

💡Anduril Industries

Anduril Industries is a new-age defense company founded by Palmer Luckey. The company aims to innovate the defense industry by applying Silicon Valley principles and technologies to military applications. The script discusses Anduril's efforts to secure a share of the Pentagon's budget and transform military technology.

💡AI-driven system (Lattice)

Lattice is Anduril Industries' proprietary AI-driven system that acts as an intelligent control center for the company's hardware. It processes data from various sensors and uses machine learning to create an operational picture of the environment, enabling autonomous systems to make informed decisions. The script highlights Lattice as a key technology in Anduril's arsenal.

💡Project Maven

Project Maven is a U.S. Department of Defense initiative that uses AI to analyze images from military drones and assist in identifying targets. The script mentions that Google initially won the contract for this project but withdrew after employee protests, while Anduril, Amazon, and Microsoft are among the main contributors.

💡Autonomous systems

Autonomous systems, as discussed in the script, are self-operating machines that can perform tasks without constant human intervention. Anduril Industries is developing various autonomous systems, such as security towers and fighter jets, to enhance military capabilities and reduce the risk to human personnel.

💡Electronic warfare

Electronic warfare involves the use of directed energy or electromagnetic spectrum to control the spectrum, disrupt enemy communications, or gather intelligence. The script describes an electronic warfare system developed by Anduril that can jam, hack, and secure communications in various powerful ways.

💡Unmanned systems

Unmanned systems, as mentioned in the script, refer to military vehicles or weapons that operate without a human onboard, such as drones. The script discusses the increasing use of unmanned systems in conflicts like the war in Ukraine, where they are used for engagements without risking human lives.

💡Replicator program

The Replicator program is a Pentagon initiative aimed at fast-tracking the development and deployment of thousands of low-cost autonomous drones. The script indicates that this program is part of a shift towards using commercial technology quickly and cost-effectively in warfare.

Highlights

Palmer Luckey, founder of Anduril, is driving a Mark 5 Special Operations craft, emphasizing its speed and design for Navy SEAL missions.

Anduril aims to bring Silicon Valley innovation to the Pentagon, challenging the status quo of expensive and outdated U.S. military technology.

Luckey criticizes the U.S. for investing in legacy weapon systems that do not deter modern adversaries like China.

Anduril is betting on a slice of the Pentagon's $850 billion budget by offering new approaches to military operations.

The transcript discusses the atypical appearance and demeanor of Luckey compared to the standard Silicon Valley founder.

The war in Ukraine and China's military expansion have accelerated the need for modernization in the U.S. defense industry.

Anduril's technology, such as autonomous security towers and submarines, is designed to be more cost-effective than traditional military solutions.

Luckey's background in virtual reality and gaming has influenced Anduril's approach to defense technology, particularly in heads-up displays and augmented reality for soldiers.

Anduril's AI-driven system, Lattice, serves as an intelligent control center for their hardware, enhancing decision-making capabilities.

The company faces skepticism about the use of AI in defense, but Luckey argues that it can lead to more informed and better decisions on the battlefield.

Anduril is developing an autonomous fighter jet called Fury, showcasing their commitment to unmanned and AI-driven military technology.

The Ukraine conflict has demonstrated the effectiveness of small unmanned systems and the need for rapid adoption of new military technologies.

The Pentagon's Replicator program aims to fast-track the development of low-cost autonomous drones, indicating a shift towards commercial technology in warfare.

Luckey expresses concerns about the U.S. falling behind China in military shipbuilding capacity, emphasizing the need for innovative strategies to maintain an edge.

Anduril's business model is focused on selling effective defense products rather than working on a cost-plus basis, which is common in the industry.

The company is not yet profitable and relies on venture capital, highlighting the risks and challenges of being a high-growth defense tech startup.

Luckey discusses the ethical considerations of AI in warfare, stressing the importance of human accountability and the potential for AI to reduce civilian casualties.

The transcript concludes with Luckey's reflections on the current state of global conflicts, the need for the U.S. to adapt quickly, and the potential implications of a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

Transcripts

[Music]

I'm driving Palmer luy's personal

warship and we're all about to

die sorry

guys so this is a mark 5 Special

Operations craft that I purchased from

the Navy are you sure I'm not going to

flip the boat y you're going to be fine

it's the fastest boat that the Navy ever

built it was designed specifically for

Navy SEAL insertion and extraction

missions it runs really fast and it's a

lot of

fun while this boat may be part of the

Old Navy lucky is trying to bring

Silicon Valley speed and Innovation back

to the Pentagon well some of the United

States technology is very bad it's also

extremely expensive and not necessarily

adapted to the types of conflicts we're

going to see in the future the United

States has a lot of investment in Legacy

weapon systems that are not necessarily

having China quaking in their booze

he's betting his new age defense company

can take a slice of the pentagon's $850

billion budget and reinvent how they do

business from the outside

in that is if they can beat the

incumbents and convince the top brass

that a billionaire founder sporting

Hawaiian shirts is just as serious about

rebooting America's Arsenal as they are

you're not the typical Silicon Valley

founder wearing a black turtleneck nor

are you walking around and talking like

a buttoned up defense contractor CEO

like how does that play I am a little

bit of a caricature uh but it's because

I just haven't changed it was really

easy when we started andall to say

conflict is over we're living at the end

of History this idea of putting our best

brains towards things that can kill

people is a waste of talent and a waste

of money and unethical and that's not

what anyone's saying anymore the war in

Ukraine and China's rapid military ation

have renewed fears that the US defense

industry isn't modernizing fast

enough that's brought a controversial

handshake between Tech and defense back

out in the

[Music]

open the military has a long and storied

history with the tech industry

[Music]

post World War II billions in defense

funding transformed California into

Aerospace and Technology boom

towns the first company to manufacture

microchips that guided missiles

satellites and helped Silicon Valley get

its name was funded by the

Pentagon founders of that very company

pioneered modern-day venture capital and

helped cultivate a vibrant tech

industry today there's a new generation

trying to bring back a America's past

proven by Palmer luy's collection of

unusual Vehicles you sure it still works

it should it

[Laughter]

should

yeah so this is a 1967 Disneyland

autopia uh designed by Bob gur and Walt

Disney as far as I know mine is the only

complete autopia that is outside of the

parks mine has the original Mechanicals

original gear boxes original Wheels the

whole deal when I got it though

uhoh technical

difficulties got a got got a flaad

screwdriver oh there we go look at

that we got to get

moving all right there we go back in

back in business so are you sure this is

street legal we're on the street aren't

we you grew up in Long Beach right not

too far from here that's right close to

the port and it was a place with a lot

of car culture a lot of Aerospace

culture a lot of Defense

activity I grew up watching the the

Marine Corps practice right offshore in

their helicopters watching Navy ships do

exercises and uh you know get it gets in

your brain and it doesn't

[Music]

leave Southern California unlike a lot

of places is a place where almost

everybody knows someone who has served

in the military or has a family member

who served in the military when that's

the case because of the density of

military population here you don't

really have the crazy political ideology

that you get in places like the Baran

but when I started andril of course it

was a totally different world uh defense

was not cool and it was definitely not

the hottest

thing before launching andil lucky

worked on virtual reality headsets in

his parents garage by age 18 he had a

prototype that kickstarted the modern VR

movement and caught the world's

attention including mark Zuckerberg

Zuckerberg bought Oculus for $2 billion

lucky was later ousted the thing is I'm

I'm actually not nearly as political of

a person as people think I am I mean

people think you got kicked out of

Silicon Valley yeah I got kicked out of

Silicon Valley because I made a $99,000

political donation the reason that

people pay attention to it at the end of

the day is because it's novel for a

person in Tech to have supported the

person who became president that year to

be clear he means this guy meta disputes

that lucky was fired for his political

views but whatever the reason the result

was a rift between lucky and the valley

so he turned his attention to defense

and set up shop in Southern

California this my extraordinarily tall

door the house was built in the 1980s

and I've kept all the bones the same I

think it's a pretty cool place has some

good Miami Vice

Vibes I've got my my 2-in uh teal shag

carpet this is my fish tank it's about a

6,500 gallon

aquarium this looks like a Dungeons and

Dragons table oh no this is just my

coffee table although it does have a map

of our Dungeons and Dragons campaign

what kind of character are you in

Dungeons and Dragons I aan chaotic

neutral wizard uh named nrim 5 he's from

the Lost Nation of Atlantis how much

success have you had with that pretty

limited so far pretty limited so

far I know you're a big gamer what are

the connections between navigating a

virtual Battlefield and a real

Battlefield probably the the main

similari is are some of the technology

that we're applying to things like heads

up displays and augmented reality for

for soldiers and Airmen to allow them to

see where the danger on the battlefield

is it's also worth noting that really

virtual reality came out of military

research in the first place and the

games industry and the military

industrial complex have always shared

kind of back and forth

[Music]

how'd you get interested in defense

technology I briefly was able to work as

a lab technician on an army project

called Brave mind that it was treating

veterans with PTSD using virtual reality

exposure therapy and that was actually

before I started Oculus I kept in touch

with a lot of friends in the defense

industry and what I heard over and over

again is that it was broken the

incentives were wrong they were being

punished for doing the right thing

rewarded for doing the wrong thing they

made more money when they were over

budget and uh that really got me worried

especially in a world where we were

running a new experiment as a country an

experiment where for the first time in

American history tech companies were not

working with

[Music]

dood the relationship between Silicon

Valley and Washington splintered after

the Cold War top talent caught the do

wave ditching government jobs in

windowless rooms for positions at shiny

Tech firms everybody used to work on

Capitol Hill or the government for the

military now everybody works for an

internet St up the defense industry

Consolidated power around five big

primes to supply the military's hardware

and software it's a large complex

oligopoly with a strict chain of command

that filters ideas through layers upon

layers upon layers of

bureaucracy for Tech startups looking to

get a piece of the action welcome to the

Valley of Death the government tries to

nurture new ideas but the amount of time

it takes to go from prototype to

adoption puts most startups in the

defense Market graveyard it seemed

impossible for Outsiders to compete

until SpaceX and paler sued the

government claiming the bidding system

unfairly favored the incumbents paler

co-founder Peter Teal's Venture firm was

the first to invest in andero it's no

coincidence that the only two companies

to break through in the last 35 years

since the winding down of the Cold War

really uh were both founded by

billionaires it's it's it's unfortunate

but it reflects the reality that we've

created where this muscle we used to

have as a country of turning small

Innovative defense companies into large

scale providers of weapons uh we we lost

it and the only way to bypass that was

to already have made billions of dollars

somewhere else as a as a country we need

to do

[Music]

better so this is the old LA Times

Printing plant it was the old LA Times

Printing Press I started Oculus in

Orange County and it was a place where I

could hire people from all over the

country when I moved up to the Bay Area

it actually became a lot harder to hire

people who weren't already in the Bay

Area but this is a place where you can

build great companies that draw from all

of America not just from that one tight

little isolated bubble well I was

actually wondering is it is it is it

hard to poach people from sort of big

tech companies oh no no the way that you

poach people from Big tech companies is

to tell them that their career is

meaningless and that they're wasting

their lives on something that doesn't

matter a decent trick of people when you

can kind of shock them out of the Matrix

being what are you doing with your life

there's big problems in the world and

you're not part of solving them that's

been behind a lot of the people who

leave big tech companies come to work at

andil anderl has been clear from the

get-go to come here is to build weapons

and surveillance

systems they started with this tall

autonomous security tower that sits on

borders in the US and abroad launched in

the early days of the Trump

presidency they've expanded their

Arsenal to autonomous submarines counter

drones and other robots that are cheaper

to build with menacing

names this is a halfs scale model of

Fury which is an autonomous fighter jet

that we're

building this is wisp this is scanning

infrared imager that's able to detect

aircraft by building a 360° sphere that

it integrates as

scams and uh this is an electronic

warfare system it can jam and hack and

make sure that you're able to talk and

the other guy isn't in a whole bunch of

really powerful

ways you're trying to run a defense tech

company like a startup how does that

compare to like lockie Martin and Boeing

and how do you get Washington to accept

that most new R&D is down on a Cost Plus

basis meaning the contractor gets paid

for their time their materials and then

a fixed percentage of profit on top of

course that incentivizes you to come up

with expensive Solutions and to drag it

out as long as as long as you can andal

we're the opposite because we're a

defense Products company that makes

things that work and sell them rather

than getting paid to do work uh it means

that when we do something faster it

helps our profit

margins You're Building Products that

the government doesn't even know it

needs yet right very often it's pretty

rare that we work on something that is

consensus in the government where

there's widespread belief that what

we're doing is the right solution to the

problem often we're building things that

they've written off as not feasible or

not viable there was a lot of skepticism

about applying artificial intelligence

to defense a lot of skeptic about

artificial intelligence in general chat

GPT was one of the most helpful

Technologies to us because it helped

convince people that AI can do things

they didn't believe computers could

do are we getting to a point where

battles could be fought by Ai and

counter AI only we're not going to have

systems that are acting entirely on

their own without human Direction but

will we see dog fights between AI

fighter jets that don't have people in

them yes absolutely in fact in Ukraine

there's been a variety of engagements

where you had uh unmanned systems

destroying other unmanned systems it

seems like what's happening in Ukraine

has marked a shift in in Warfare

strategy what's happening in Ukraine is

is fascinating because they can't afford

to treat Warfare as a thing to be think

tanked or as a thing to be debated in

white

papers they have to actually win today

and that means that a lot of barriers to

trying new ideas have been lifted and

that's one of the reasons you've seen

for example the proliferation of small

unmanned armed quadcopters it's why

you've seen the proliferation of a lot

of really interesting counterd drone

systems things that were not nearly

mature enough to be deployed let's say

by the United States uh but they are

willing to deploy them in a very early

stage maturity because they know they

can't win doing things the old

[Music]

way the old way meant having the biggest

most expensive weapon on the

battlefield now it's about having a

swarm of commercial technology available

quickly and

cheaply to that end the Pentagon

recently announced the replicator

program to FastTrack thousands of

lowcost autonomous drones startups and

Venture capitalists who historically

shunned military work declared it's time

to build to get in on the action the old

school way of working through five six

large primes and developing technology

just doesn't work you have to work with

the private sector to bring new

technologies in big Tech firms have had

more long-term success offering Hardware

Ai and cloud services in exchange for

billion dooll deals but there's been

friction on the tech company side from

Engineers who don't want anything to do

with the military some tech employees

have pushed back on working with the US

government and the US military do you

see where they're coming from

fundamentally I think it's an emotional

thing they came to a company to work on

consumer Tech they weren't told that

their work would be used for potentially

violence and they don't like that and I

I I empathize with that because to them

it feels like a little bit of a bait and

switch critics see the technology You're

Building worry it could be misused on

American citizens for example are they

right to worry oh of course anything can

be misused but like if you want to point

to things that can be misused against

American citizens I mean the military

has a lot of guns the military has a lot

of aircraft you have to have trust in

the system you have to believe that

democracy works and you have to believe

that the right way to control these is

on the policy side there are actually

things I would like to build that the

dod would not use and would not deploy

that they do think are beyond the pale

and that's the way that it should be US

foreign policy and military policy

shouldn't be in the hands corporate

Executives the heart of ander's

Technology isn't its Hardware but it's

software Engineers here have developed a

proprietary AI driven system called

lattice that acts like an intelligent

control center for the company's

Hardware lce is our AI system for

controlling distributed robots we're

doing processing and computer vision

machine learning on that data and

producing an operating picture of the

world so we understand the chessboard so

to speak and then the autonomy can apply

those very logical decisions about what

to do and move forward and act so walk

me through the process from

identification to decision or decisions

so we've got a manned crew that's going

to try and fly in and land somewhere

they have some Mission they need to do

on the ground but there's threats that

are unknown so we're going to send the

autonomous systems forward they're going

to try and draw out any enemy fire and

with the autonomous systems you're okay

if they if they die you're okay if they

get taken out because that tells you

more information about the the

battlefield so that you can make

informed decisions interesting but

there's still a long way to go still a

lot to build y there's the old saying

Hardware is hard the United States used

to be able to build things that would

fly twice as fast as our adversaries and

we'd be twice as fast for a decade those

days are gone Hardware advantages like

that are going to be quickly copied by

our adversaries so a lot of the most

durable advantages we build for example

using software to make decisions twice

as fast or 10 times as fast is a is a

capability that I don't think our

adversaries are close to to

copying Lattis is just one example of

the military's increasing use of

AI the Pentagon has been developing

project Maven an AI system that analyzes

images from military drones and helps

suggest targets Google initially won

this contract in 2018 but backed out

after thousands of work workers

protested the deal paler Amazon

Microsoft and anderl are currently among

the main

contributors Maven is now deployed but

there are still open questions about

ai's combat Readiness at the end of the

day you just have to be correct and

you're doing it from

afar and so uh yes I would still submit

that that is one of the toughest things

that my organizations have encountered

is that idea of distinguishing enemy

from non-enemy or combatant from

non-combatant and the scale of it is

impressive there are concerns that AI

could deepen the fog of War what do you

think about that no I I super I super

disagree I think AI is going to be a

tool to put all the cards on the table

for everyone my hope is that you're

going to have dictators who make better

decisions because even they have better

information from AI let's use Putin as

an example I don't think he would have

launched this invasion in Ukraine if he

would have understood what was actually

going to happen remember they believe

this is like a 3 days Special Operation

they were going to roll in it was going

to be over very very quickly if he had

had a better understanding of what he

had and what they had I think he

probably would not have made the

play there are a lot of thorny ethical

questions we're talking about a possible

future of self-guided bombs and Killer

Robots who is liable when a human isn't

in the loop the key is that a person is

responsible for the deployment of those

systems the existence of an algorithm

cannot replace human responsibility for

deploying that weapon system and it has

to be a person who deeply understands

the limitations of that system and who's

going to be held to account when it goes

wrong but or as hell and it's not going

to be perfect there will be people who

are killed by AI who should not have

been killed that is a a certainty if

artificial intelligence becomes a core

part of the way that we fight Wars we

need to make sure that people remain

accountable for that because that's the

only thing that'll drive us to better

Solutions and fewer inadvertent deaths

fewer civilian casualties I don't want

AI to do these things but a lot of times

the existing Technologies are much

worse China and Taiwan how does this

play out it can play out in a lot of

different ways everything that Andel is

working on on the R&D side is oriented

towards that fight right now China

believes that they can take Taiwan they

believe that the United States is some

combination of won't stop them isn't

willing to stop them won't win if we do

try to stop them they believe Taiwan is

in a similar position with their own

military we have to change their minds

I'm probably going to eat these words

but if China ends up invading Taiwan I'm

going to feel like we've really failed

in our

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mission you actually spent a lot of time

in China working on Oculus headsets what

do you know about China's capabilities

in AI what don't you know I spent time

in China back in the Oculus days because

that's where we did our Manufacturing

and we didn't really have a

choice I deeply understand how dependent

our country has become on Chinese

manufacturing Chinese engineering

Chinese supply chain materials it's

really extraordinary how they've pulled

themselves up from almost nothing to

being an economic superpower and we did

this too we're the ones that gave him

the blueprints we're the ones that gave

them the tech we're the ones that

shipped it all overseas and I'm part of

the problem I'm one of the guys who did

it what a do you worry that China is

outpacing the US on technological

innovation like could the US military

lose it its Edge to China well depending

on who you ask China has between 50

times and 300 times the military ship

building capacity of the United States

this is a huge problem especially if

you're fighting a war where you lose all

your ships and it takes you decades to

rebuild they lose all their ships and

they rebuild the same year this is

really inarguably an area where China

has outpaced the United States now they

haven't outpaced us everywhere but in a

lot of the areas that matter for a fight

in the Pacific they are kicking our ass

and the United States is not going to be

able to win by following the same

strategy they do we're not going to be

able to build enough shipyards and train

enough welders to build 300 times more

ships that's off the table so we have to

win with our brains despite all its

Innovation andal and other defense Tech

startups are still bit players in the

world of military

suppliers Venture capitalists plowed in

a hundred billion doll between 2021 and

2023 but only a handful of companies

have won meaningful

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contracts right now Ander is very much

in a high- growth stage we've done a lot

of things that I'm very very proud of

but I'm very aware of the fact that we

are not a profitable business we are

living on borrowed time and so I I I

it's hard for me to come and feel like

I've made it when I know that you know

anyone can raise money from VCS buy a

really big office and fill it full of

people the question is are those people

building the right things and will those

things pay

off it's not your average Newport Beach

Boat no it's not is it most of my

neighbors like it and a handful hate it

but that's good enough we've got a mock

M2 heavy barrel 50bmg machine gun have

real ones that I can that I can throw on

but I I I keep I keep the fake ones on

most of the time one of the other cool

features of the boat is these shock

mounted seats you'll notice they bounce

up and down so we're going to go below

deck into the Navigator's

room this is also where we run all of

our Communications gear processing gear

computer gear radio gear you've got all

of your rifle racks here so that you can

rack them

up so these are twin MTU engines the

boat's got a little over 5,000

horsepower this whole thing is basically

a big giant jet

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ski so what else do you have in your

personal Arsenal oh I got a whole bunch

of stuff got a uh60 Blackhawk 1985 X

Marine Corp hanvey how many helicopters

I used to have seven but I only have six

now I do hear that you have a vault

where you have every video game

ever created a while ago I purchased the

world's largest video game collection

and I I also collect US Air Force

nuclear missile bases so I put that in

one of my missile bases 200 ft

underground where's that oh I can't tell

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you all

right we're going to do some turns

everybody hold on

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all right what was that that was one of

our own weeks but we're going to go find

one of the other ones hold

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on you want to try steering I'm good all

right we'll bring us down to

zero so as we accelerate uh you're going

to hear first the first turbocharger

kicked in and then after we get at about

20 knots you're going to hear the second

turbocharger kick in and that's when the

engine changes

pitch I try a starboard turn you're

going to move your stick over to the

right and then watch your positions

here I'm turning a

warship when I say Center Center center

now there you

go we're going fast like the the beach

is approaching all right we're going to

do a a little bit of a fast stop you're

going to pull on the throttle just pull

pull keep going give it here we go all

right leave it

there there you go oh my

God so am I hired

no you started endural in 2017 and

you've lived through Silicon Valley in

the era of zerp and easy money sure what

do you think about the frenzy the zero

interest rate phenomenon yeah there's a

lot of companies that shouldn't have

existed they never should have been

funded all that money went to paying

people to do things that were a waste of

time I know lots of young Founders who

were working on crypto art nonsense and

a fifth delivery app or a 10th delivery

app and now that money has become harder

to come by you know what they're working

on they're working on energy they're

working on National Security they're

working on transportation and uh I I

think that I I see people working on

real problems because the market forced

them to and that's a good thing in my

opinion so it's time to build it's time

to

built the war in Ukraine it's been 2

years now how are we going to look back

on it well I think that we're going to

look back on it as one of the best

examples of the hubis of the modern era

thinking that we lived at the end of

History the end of conflict the large

scale War was a thing of the past that

artillery is irrelevant that Manpower is

irrelevant that sternly worded letters

from the United Nations mean anything at

all to expansionist dictators like Putin

or X that's I think going to be the

legacy of this

fight is the US government working fast

enough to like Foster the agility we

need to to survive or win Global

conflicts it depends on what kinds of

fights we fight hopefully we have enough

time uh we might not why not well let's

say that China starts making moves on

Taiwan and moves on other countries in

the next 24 months I think we're going

to be in

trouble I think in 36 months 48 months

we're actually still kind of in trouble

if it takes long enough I think that the

United States military has recognized

the problem uh but you know like you're

steering this boat when you turned how

long did it take for the boat to respond

a while it was a bit of a lag time the

US military is the same way it's a large

machine it takes a long time to move

even once you've applied the control

even if once you've applied the input I

think that's the phase we're in the

government has realized the problem

they've applied the input we're waiting

for the system to adjust

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