WISC V - Understanding the Verbal Comprehension Index Score.
Summary
TLDRDr. Cindy D, a specialist in learning disabilities with her own experiences of dyslexia and dysgraphia, discusses the intricacies of evaluating verbal comprehension in children. She explains the process of the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC), focusing on the vocabulary and similarities subtests. Dr. D highlights the importance of understanding the depth of a child's comprehension and the challenges they may face, such as expressive language issues, word retrieval difficulties, and auditory processing problems. She emphasizes the need for clinicians to query responses to elicit more detailed answers and the impact of these issues on a child's educational needs. The conversation also touches on the significance of assessing for auditory processing disorders and the varied reasons why children might struggle with vocabulary tests. Dr. D concludes by noting the potential for intellectual depth in children who score high on the similarities test, despite their challenges with reading and writing.
Takeaways
- 🎓 Dr. Cindy D is a specialist in learning disabilities with a PhD, who has been working with children from kindergarten through college for over 25 years.
- 📝 She conducts diagnostic evaluations, interventions, and advocacy for children with dyslexia, dysgraphia, ADHD, and other challenges.
- 💬 The verbal comprehension score on the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC) is determined by two main subtests: similarities and vocabulary.
- 🔍 In the vocabulary subtest, children are asked to define words orally, and precision in their answers can lead to further queries for clarification (indicated by a 'Q').
- 🙅♀️ Expressive language difficulties can impact a child's score on verbal comprehension, even if they understand the concept but struggle to express it.
- 🧐 Word retrieval issues and auditory processing problems can cause children to provide incorrect responses on vocabulary tests.
- 🕒 The 'tell me more' query allows children to give more detailed explanations, which can help clinicians understand their depth of understanding.
- 📚 Children who excel in the similarities subtest may have a strong ability to make verbal arguments, understand complex concepts, and need intellectual challenges.
- 🤔 Difficulty with abstract thinking and visualization can make the similarities test challenging for some children.
- 🧠 There are additional comprehension subtests (information and comprehension) that can provide a more comprehensive verbal index score.
- 👂 Auditory processing issues, such as not distinguishing between certain sounds, can be addressed through training and may require an auditory assessment.
- 🌐 Children who are not strong readers may still have a vast vocabulary and understanding of word meanings, using context clues to learn about words they cannot decode.
Q & A
What is the main focus of Dr. Cindy D's work?
-Dr. Cindy D specializes in working with individuals with learning disabilities, including dyslexia and dysgraphia. Her work involves diagnostic evaluations, intervention, advocacy, and she is also a reading and writing remediation specialist.
How long has Dr. Cindy D been working in her field?
-Dr. Cindy D has been working with children with learning disabilities from kindergarten through college for over a quarter of a century, which she realized recently.
What are the two main subtests used in the Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children (WISC) to measure verbal comprehension?
-The two main subtests used to measure verbal comprehension are 'Similarities' and 'Vocabulary'.
How does the vocabulary subtest work in the WISC?
-In the vocabulary subtest, a word is orally presented to the individual, who is then asked to define it. The individual is not required to provide multiple meanings, but a definition with enough depth will earn maximum points.
What does the 'Q' notation in the WISC manual signify?
-The 'Q' notation in the WISC manual stands for 'query', which is used when an answer is not precise enough. It prompts the individual to provide a more detailed definition or explanation.
How can an expressive language disorder impact a person's score on the verbal comprehension test?
-An expressive language disorder can impact a person's score on the verbal comprehension test because it may be difficult for them to find the right words or express their ideas with precision, even if they understand the concept.
What is the relationship between listening comprehension and oral expression?
-Listening comprehension and oral expression are closely related because one must listen before they can learn to speak. If there is a listening comprehension issue, it often results in an oral expression issue as well.
How does auditory processing play a role in vocabulary understanding?
-Auditory processing is crucial for vocabulary understanding because it involves the ability to hear and recognize the differences in sounds. If a child has difficulty distinguishing between certain sounds, it can lead to misheard words and incorrect understanding of vocabulary.
What is the purpose of querying a response during the vocabulary subtest?
-The purpose of querying a response is to encourage the individual to provide a more detailed and precise definition or explanation. This helps the clinician to better understand the depth of the individual's understanding and to ensure that the response is not just a superficial one.
How does the 'Similarities' subtest work in the WISC?
-In the 'Similarities' subtest, two items are presented, and the individual is asked to explain the relationship between them. The test starts with very concrete objects and becomes increasingly abstract, requiring the individual to demonstrate their understanding of the relationship at different levels of complexity.
What does a high score on the 'Similarities' subtest indicate about a child's cognitive abilities?
-A high score on the 'Similarities' subtest indicates that the child has a deep understanding of concepts and relationships. These children can often make strong verbal arguments and may need intellectual challenges to keep them engaged and prevent boredom.
What are the additional subtests in the WISC that can provide a more comprehensive verbal index score?
-The additional subtests in the WISC that can provide a more comprehensive verbal index score are 'Information' and 'Comprehension'. These subtests are about understanding social rules and can help paint a more detailed picture of the student's performance and skill set.
Outlines
📚 Understanding Dyslexia and Diagnostic Evaluations
Dr. Cindy D, a specialist in learning disabilities, discusses her work with dyslexia, dysgraphia, and ADHD. She emphasizes the importance of diagnostic evaluations, interventions, and advocacy. Dr. D, who has personal experience with dyslexia and dysgraphia, highlights her extensive experience working with individuals from kindergarten to college level. She explains the process of assessing verbal comprehension through subtests like vocabulary and similarities, and how clinicians may query responses for more depth. The paragraph also touches on the impact of expressive language issues on test performance.
🗣️ Expressive Language and Vocabulary Testing
This paragraph delves into the challenges faced by individuals with expressive language disorders during vocabulary tests. Dr. D explains how difficulties in word retrieval or precision can affect a person's score, even if they understand the word's meaning. The discussion also covers auditory processing issues, where children may mishear words, leading to incorrect responses. Dr. D stresses the importance of allowing children adequate time to think and respond, as rushing through questions may not elicit their full potential. The paragraph also addresses the need for auditory assessments in cases of consistent mishearing.
🧐 Exploring Similarities and Abstract Thinking
The focus of this paragraph is on the 'similarities' subtest, where individuals are asked to explain the relationship between two items. Dr. D outlines how the test starts with concrete examples and gradually becomes more abstract, requiring a higher level of thinking. She discusses how some children with learning challenges might struggle with abstract thinking and visualization, which can make the task particularly difficult. The paragraph also touches on the importance of understanding a child's thought process and expression, and how their responses can indicate a need for further assessment.
🎓 High Scores on Similarities and Intellectual Challenges
Dr. D talks about the implications of high scores on the similarities subtest, suggesting that such children often have a deep understanding of concepts and relationships. She notes that these children may not demonstrate their understanding through writing but can comprehend complex ideas when listening to podcasts or engaging in verbal discussions. The paragraph emphasizes the need for intellectual stimulation and challenges for these children to prevent boredom and underachievement. Dr. D also mentions additional comprehension subtests that can provide a more comprehensive view of a student's abilities.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Dyslexia
💡Dysgraphia
💡Diagnostic Evaluations
💡Verbal Comprehension
💡Vocabulary Subtest
💡Expressive Language Disorder
💡Auditory Processing
💡Similarities Subtest
💡Word Retrieval
💡Non-Readers
💡Bloom's Taxonomy
Highlights
Dr. Cindy D is a specialist in learning disabilities with a focus on diagnostic evaluations, intervention, and advocacy.
Dr. Cindy D has been working with children with dyslexia, dysgraphia, ADHD, and other challenges for over 25 years.
The Wechsler Scale uses two main subtests for verbal comprehension: similarities and vocabulary.
In the vocabulary subtest, multiple meanings for a word do not earn extra points; precision in definition is key.
Expressive language difficulties can impact a person's score on verbal comprehension tests.
Auditory processing issues can lead to misheard words, affecting vocabulary test performance.
Children with a lot of ear infections in early development may develop incorrect neural pathways for language.
Some non-readers can understand word meanings through context clues despite not being able to decode or spell words.
The similarities subtest assesses the ability to explain relationships between two items, starting with concrete examples.
Bloom's taxonomy can be applied to understand different levels of complexity in a child's responses.
Children with difficulty visualizing words or concepts may struggle with abstract thinking in the similarities test.
High scores on the similarities test may indicate a child's ability to make complex verbal arguments or understand deep concepts.
Children who can understand complex concepts despite difficulties in reading and writing may need intellectual challenges.
There are two additional comprehension subtests (information and comprehension) that can provide a more comprehensive verbal index score.
A comprehensive verbal index score can help paint a clearer picture of a student's performance and skill set.
Dr. Cindy D emphasizes the importance of understanding the interconnectedness of listening, speaking, reading, and writing skills.
Children's responses to queries during testing can provide insights into their thought processes and potential language or processing issues.
Transcripts
hi I'm Dr Cindy D I have a PhD in
learning disabilities uh I do diagnostic
evaluations a little bit of intervention
a little bit of advocacy and I'm also an
adult with dyslexia and dis graphia and
Kim with her giant mug of coffee today
again I'm a reading and writing
remediation specialist I've worked with
kids with dyslexia dis graphia ADHD and
other challenges uh for the last 15
years um kindergarten through college
and I think you've been once again I
think we need to go back and actually do
your calculation because you've been
doing it a lot longer than 15 oh have I
okay I forgot yeah that's okay but you
know you you lose track it didn't occur
to me that I've been doing this for more
than a quarter of a century until
recently which is kind of mindboggling
right if I if I think about it including
graduate school all right so enough
digressing let's talk about a high and
low set of scores on verbal
comprehension okay so on the Whisk you
have a verbal comprehension score and
there's two main subtests that they use
there's actually four available but
there's two main sub ones that we use
one is
similarities and one is vocabulary now
Kim I know you know what vocabulary is
so what's the vocabulary
subtest um and are you doing this all
orally it's not reading okay so you're I
think you're giving um
you're orally presenting a word yeah and
I I'm guessing that you're are you
giving it in a sentence or you're just
asking for them to give it in a you're
just saying what does this word mean yes
okay just plain and simple yeah and
there are words in there that have
multiple meanings do they get extra
points if they give multiple meetings
absolutely not so they as long as they
give one they got it as long as they
give a definition with enough depth they
get maximum points now there's multiple
points available okay and if your answer
is not precise
enough in the manual after certain
answers there's a letter q and Q means
quer and so I is a
clinician let's let's pick a random word
let's pick a word dog and if you said
furry I would then come in and say tell
me more about that because there are
lots of things that are furry from a
stuffed animal to a sheep to mold in
growing in your refrigerator right
so by you by you giving them um
additional query it allows them to
access in their brain a more precise
definition so you say tell me more about
that and what might you
say um oh uh people have them as pets
and they have four legs and they go woof
woof and okay that point you given me
enough detail that typically that would
be considered a two-point response okay
if you said legs and tail that might
also get another query or that might
just get uh you're done okay and you
unless you're unless you're qualified to
administer the test you don't get to
know the nuts and bolts behind how the
different answers work how many points
you get why certain questions get
queried or why certain responses get
queried and why others don't okay get
mad for asking this question but if you
have a person with expressive language
ulties this would also impact your your
your score on verbal comprehension do
you guys get that yes well let's talk
about that so an oral expressive
language disorder um so there's
there's Dr Doris Johnson would say
there's two kinds of oral language
disorders there is an expressive oral
language disorder and there is a mixed
receptive expressive language disorder
ah because if you have a listening
comprehension issue you're also going to
have an oral expression issue because
you have to listen before you learn to
speak okay so if we go back to this
vocabulary sub test and I give you a
word and you have a hard time finding
the words and you talk around it and you
can't give me the Precision even though
I as a clinician suspect that you know
what it is and that you know what the
word is I can't then give you credit for
it and this is
yes and and this happens all the time at
school and people it happens with
difficulty with written expression you
can maybe verbally express it but you
can't write it so a lot of people don't
understand these are Sydney taught me
these are all connected listening
writing expressing I I did it in the
wrong order but yeah so we learn to
listen to words first then we learn to
speak words then we learn to read words
which is like listening to words and
then we learn to write words which is
like speaking words but we add the gra
graphing component so um okay so on the
vocabulary test there can be a bunch of
reasons that you don't do well one is I
don't know how to express my ideas can
you think of another reason that a kid
might have difficulty on the vocabulary
test uh word retrieval or okay so that's
still an expressive language issue I
can't find the words that I'm looking
for I can't use a
Precision um so we do this frequently
where I say do these two words sound the
same
pet or oh are you talking about auditory
processing issues yeah or they're not
hearing the word distinctly enough and
they're not recognizing the differences
in the words and there are several words
on many of the vocabulary tests because
vocabulary tests are not just unique to
the westler scales where kids mishar
words there's no other support for it so
the clinician is then supposed to go
back and say listen carefully and repeat
the word again but we've had lots of
kids I mean my favorite one is kids that
think consonant means large land masses
on the earth of which there's seven yeah
continent continent continent and con
continent
means any letters in the alphabet other
than you just mixed it that's what kids
will do they will think a consonant is a
large land mass and a continent
is the any letters in the alphabet other
than a vowel or they won't know what a
consonant is that happens yeah we could
go in right depth on that but we won't
okay so if you mishear the
words then you don't provide an
appropriate response I also have kids
that when you query they're like I don't
know or I don't have anything else I
will
often sit and wait for kids now have you
ever noticed that if you say nothing in
a conversation it becomes uncomfortable
and so somebody will respond with
something yes so I'm not there to make a
kid uncomfortable but I'm there to give
them adequate weight
time and often when I give kids enough
time to
think and be relaxed I will get a much
more verbose answer um can you imagine
what would happen in a situation where
you got a lot of kids to Rack through
quickly you can't it's too it's too
disruptive right so will just kind of
move forward they didn't respond we're
just going to go forward and so you may
not actually elicit or get their full
response to know what they're truly
capable of can I clarify a word you used
for parents um you said Miss hear so
miss hear some people might think of
that as not hearing it right but what
you're really saying is the connection
between the symbol sound
discriminating right um it's not
recognizing the differences in sounds um
I have kids all the time that don't hear
the difference between s and Z right
even if you over enunciate it they can't
hear that difference and so we literally
have to go back and train them in
that dyslexia yeah it's linguistic and
yeah I mean I have kids that are very
angry at me in high school because they
think an ornament is an or
dummit the n and D sound are made in the
same part of the mouth but they heard it
differently when they were little and
they refus to believe it's not an
orament yes it's not hearing it's right
it's it's so when we hear sounds it goes
to lower brain stem and then it goes up
into your brain and it's doesn't have to
do necessarily with it can um which is
why we always say hey if a kid is
mishearing words you need to go get get
an auditory assessment and if they still
make those mistakes that's when we say
Hey you know you need to go do a an
assessment for an auditory processing
disorder otherwise previously known as a
central auditory processing disorder so
CPD or
APD um
but it is you have to dig deeper and
we're going to take a pause here for
just a second we'll be right back you
heard
it so sorry we were checking to make
sure that you couldn't hear any
background noise so Kim we were just
talking about the fact that you said
there can be lots of reasons that kids
missar and what was one of those reasons
well it's not necessarily an auditory
processing disorder or a hearing
disorder sometimes a lot of parents
don't realize in that early time of
development what is it baby through
three years if your kid has a lot of ear
infections if they hear something
incorrectly they'll say it incorrectly
they'll read it in I mean it all starts
when they're super little so that could
be a reason why that they've created
this neural pathway um to saying the
word wrong or the sound wrong now let's
also talk about the converse where we
have kids who are not readers but are
like vacuum cleaners in the world and
they pick up every word they have ever
heard and use context clues to figure
out the the meaning of that word and we
see that frequently for our non-readers
and you will ask them this bizarre
question and they'll like give you a
dissertation on it right but they have
no idea what the sounds are inside of
that word they may not they may not be
able to segment the word they may not be
able to decode the word they may not be
able to spell the word can't read it
write it they can know the meaning and
you and I frequently have this where a
word comes up and I'm like oh I think of
me instead and you're like how would you
know that
Cindy yeah it's it's a a gift you know a
gift and a in certain ways it can be a
gift in certain ways it would be helpful
if I could read and spell all of them
but such is life yeah okay so that's
kind of vocabulary now let's talk about
similarities do you remember the
similarities
test I think you're asking um you know
how is a brush like a um broom or
something yes okay so we give you two
items and we ask you to explain the
relationship between them and initially
it starts off with what we call being
very concrete like it's very obvious so
like if I said scissors and a knife you
would say well they both cut right okay
and just like in vocabulary we have
responses that if you give a response
it's got a cue after it you're supposed
to quer and say tell me more about that
to see if the kid can expand upon that
and give more depth to their
understanding now this is another place
where um I often see kids where will'll
say tell me more about that
and they will tell me more about the
answer that they just gave
me without it giving new information
about their understanding of it so let's
go back to in what way are knife and
scissors alike and let's say you said
metal and I said tell me more about that
and the kid would say well there's metal
in the in both blades a knife has metal
and scissors have
metal which is not improving the quality
of the response you're just explaining
the answer that you gave me which
doesn't
then explain the relationship better
let's say a two-point response or the
most point response would be they're
both used to cut
objects and metal get you a query if you
don't go into that blade is used to
there's metal in them and the metal is
used to create a cut then you wouldn't
get the points well and it's also very
literal which a lot of kids with the
suia happen to be sometimes but is it
also difficulty with abstract thinking
going to a different it going higher up
in the category level is that right yeah
and and there's a whole thing on Bloom's
taxonomy which you can go in and dig
into it another time which is
understanding different levels of
complexity um but it starts off so the
similarities test starts with very
concrete objects kind of like the one
that we use with knife and scissors and
then it gets more and more and more ract
and many of the kids when they get to
hire items would say there's no
relationship they're
opposites and time test or not
untimed and when a kid says that I will
just sit and wait because saying their
opposites doesn't get a
query like if you
say
um uh oh I'm trying to think
of uh something that would be
opposite oh plus and
minus if you said those are
opposite yeah sit there and try and give
you time to think about and try and
determine a
relationship that goes beyond their
opposites because their opposites
doesn't tell me how they're
alike okay one more weird
question many more weird questions from
me if if a kid has trouble with
visualization which a lot lot of our
kids do they don't see the words they
don't see the literal letter I see the
letters I see the pictures if they don't
see the picture of the word and they
don't see the letters doesn't that make
or they can't visualize whatever it is
can't visualize doesn't that make this a
very difficult exercise it depends on
the kids yes some kids won't be able to
mentally think about or think through
relationships um I will also have kids
tell me that the words begin with the
same letter they end with with the same
letter again you're not telling me how
the words or the concepts are
related okay and so uh at that point
that's telling us something is going on
there in the way the kid thinks and the
way the kid that expresses what they're
understanding and that normally means we
need to dig more like yeah that this is
very important so this verbal
comprehension um score could a very of
very variety of different things that we
haven't looked
at let's talk about kids that score very
high on
similarities these are the kids
that I don't want to overgeneralize
these typically are kids that can make
great verbal arguments or they
understand deep Concepts or they
understand relationships there's a lot
of depth and breadth to what's going on
there so even though they may not show
that in their writing or even they
though they may not show that in um
other ways in Reading yeah they can have
depth and breadth in their understanding
that indicates that they need
intellectual challenge that they need to
be asked to think deeper Express more
ideas explore and can get bored very
easily when it's just kind of
straightforward a plus b equals c it is
quite fascinating when you get someone
very sophisticated in this you know you
know but then they can't they have
difficulty with reading and writing but
they can listen to podcasts absorb the
concepts and repeat the words it's crazy
it's crazy so um and we'll do
another uh video on this later but
there's two additional comprehension
subtests there's information and
comprehension which is about
understanding social rules and you can
actually administer all four and get a
comprehensive verbal index score which
very few good clinicians do but it can
also help paint another picture of how
the student is performing and what it
means and their skill
set so you could actually go and get
additional those additional subtests
elsewhere you can dive deeper and know
more there's always more than enough
okay all right thanks
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