Pro-Wall vs Undocumented Immigrants: Can They Agree? | Middle Ground

Summary

The video script presents a raw and emotional dialogue on immigration, highlighting the complexities and human aspects of the issue. Participants, including undocumented individuals and those supportive of stricter immigration policies, share personal stories and viewpoints. The conversation touches on the fear and marginalization felt by the undocumented community, the perceived infringement on rights by those who support a wall, and the broader implications of 'America first' rhetoric. The discussion underscores the need for empathy, legal reform, and a collective effort to address the flaws in the immigration system, emphasizing that solutions should be sought over problems.

Takeaways

• 🌐 The script features a diverse group of individuals sharing their personal stories and perspectives on immigration, highlighting the complexity of the issue.
• 🏠 The conversation revolves around the concept of 'home' and the right to live with loved ones, with some participants feeling threatened by others' presence.
• 📢 The script addresses the fear and tension that have arisen post-Trump's policies, particularly among undocumented immigrants and their families.
• 🚫 The 'Muslim ban' and its impact on people's legal statuses are mentioned, illustrating how policies can affect different communities.
• 🤔 The script questions the idea of legality and its application, suggesting that laws can be unjust and that legality does not always equate to morality.
• 🇺🇸 The 'America first' concept is discussed, with some participants arguing it is exclusionary and prioritizes certain groups over others.
• 🏢 The script touches on the economic implications of immigration, with some arguing that undocumented immigrants contribute to societal burdens.
• 🚸 The conversation highlights the challenges faced by those who come to the U.S. both legally and illegally, emphasizing the need for a more compassionate and understanding approach.
• 🏛️ The script criticizes the notion of a border wall, viewing it as both a physical and symbolic barrier that does not address the root causes of immigration.
• 📈 There is a call for a more open dialogue and understanding of the immigration system, with participants urging for solutions rather than focusing on problems.

Q & A

What is the main theme of the discussion in the transcript?

The main theme of the discussion is the exploration of perspectives on immigration, focusing on the experiences and opinions of undocumented immigrants, legal immigrants, and those in favor of stricter immigration policies.

Who are some of the individuals sharing their stories in the transcript?

The transcript features stories from Ernesto Rocha, an undocumented storyteller; Juan Camillo Gonzalez Chorio Lara, a singer and actor; Danyeli, a spoken word artist and paralegal; Jonathon Miranda, who is pro-wall; Julie, a grad student who is undocumented; and Jazmina Savetra, an immigrant who came to the U.S. legally.

What is the significance of the statement 'You deserve to be under one roof, with the people that you love' in the transcript?

This statement emphasizes the human desire for unity and family, suggesting that everyone deserves to live with their loved ones, which is a common motivation for immigration, regardless of legal status.

What does the term 'pro-wall' signify in the context of the transcript?

In the transcript, 'pro-wall' refers to an individual who supports the construction of a physical barrier along the U.S.-Mexico border, often as a symbol of stricter immigration control.

How does the discussion reflect the diversity of opinions on immigration within the Latino community?

The discussion reflects the diversity of opinions by including individuals who identify as Latino and have different stances on immigration, from those who are undocumented to those who support stricter immigration laws.

What historical policies are mentioned in the transcript that impact the immigration debate?

The transcript mentions policies such as the Muslim ban, birthright citizenship, and the history of segregation, which are used to highlight the complexities and injustices within the immigration debate.

What is the argument against the concept of 'America first' presented in the transcript?

The argument against 'America first' is that it is seen as a dangerous and divisive concept that prioritizes certain groups over others and can lead to war and inequality. It is also criticized for being synonymous with 'white America first'.

How does the transcript address the issue of legality in immigration?

The transcript addresses the issue of legality by discussing how the concept of legality is used to dismiss the humanity of immigrants and by highlighting the fact that laws can be unjust and change over time.

What personal experiences are shared regarding the impact of immigration policies on families?

Personal experiences shared include the fear and uncertainty after Trump's inauguration, the struggle to prove humanity and deserve basic rights, and the impact of losing a loved one due to a crime committed by an undocumented immigrant.

What is the perspective on the role of religion in the immigration debate as presented in the transcript?

The transcript presents a perspective that religion, particularly Christianity, should be about compassion and recognizing the humanity in all people, regardless of their immigration status.

What are the differing views on the effectiveness of a wall as a solution to immigration issues?

Views on the wall's effectiveness range from seeing it as a symbol of love and protection from the president to the people, to viewing it as an economically infeasible and morally incorrect solution that does not address the root causes of immigration.

Outlines

00:00

🌎 Immigration Perspectives

The paragraph introduces a diverse group of individuals sharing their thoughts on immigration. Ernesto Rocha, an undocumented storyteller, Juan Camillo Gonzalez Chorio Lara (JC), a singer and actor, Danyeli, a spoken word artist and paralegal, and Jonathon Miranda, who is pro-wall, all express their views. Julie, a grad student, and Jazmina Savetra, an immigrant who came through legal means, also share their experiences. The discussion touches on the fear and profiling associated with immigration status, the Muslim ban, and the broader implications of policies targeting specific groups. The participants grapple with the idea of 'America first' and its historical context, as well as the emotional and practical challenges faced by immigrants.

05:03

🏠 The 'America First' Debate

This section delves into the concept of 'America first' and its implications for both documented and undocumented immigrants. The speakers discuss the importance of community over country and question the notion of prioritizing one's own needs over those of others. They also address the historical and ongoing injustices faced by immigrants, particularly from Latin America, and the hypocrisy of the 'America first' policy in light of past American actions abroad. The conversation highlights the tension between individual self-preservation and collective responsibility, as well as the need for empathy and understanding in the immigration debate.

10:03

🚧 The Wall and Immigration Control

The final paragraph focuses on the contentious issue of building a wall and controlling immigration. Participants discuss the economic and moral feasibility of a wall, its symbolic meaning, and the practical challenges it would not solve. They also touch on the broader topic of immigration control, the need for a more compassionate and efficient legal process, and the importance of understanding the diverse reasons why people immigrate. The conversation concludes with a call for unity and problem-solving, emphasizing the potential of all individuals to contribute to America's greatness.

Keywords

💡Undocumented

The term 'undocumented' refers to individuals who reside in a country without the necessary legal documents or citizenship. In the video, this concept is central as it explores the experiences and perspectives of undocumented immigrants in the United States. The script features individuals who identify as undocumented, sharing their personal stories and the challenges they face, such as the fear of deportation and the struggle for basic rights.

💡Legal Process

The 'legal process' pertains to the official procedures and steps required to obtain legal residency or citizenship in a country. The video discusses the legal process as a point of contention, with some arguing that it is too difficult or inaccessible. For example, one participant mentions going through the legal process to immigrate, while others criticize the system for being exclusive and not accommodating the needs of all who seek a better life.

💡America First

'America First' is a policy and slogan that emphasizes prioritizing the interests of American citizens over those of other nations. In the script, this concept is debated, with some participants supporting it as a means of protecting American jobs and resources, while others criticize it as being exclusionary and discriminatory. The video uses this term to spark a conversation about nationalism and its impact on immigration policy.

💡Human Rights

Human rights are the basic rights and freedoms to which all individuals are entitled. The video emphasizes the struggle of undocumented immigrants to assert their human rights, such as the right to live without fear of persecution and the right to seek a better life. The script includes discussions about how policies and societal attitudes can either uphold or undermine these rights.

💡Immigration

Immigration refers to the act of moving to a new country with the intention of residing there. The video script discusses various aspects of immigration, including legal and illegal immigration, and the differing views on how it should be managed. It also touches on the personal stories of immigrants, the reasons behind their decision to move, and the challenges they face in their new country.

💡Wall

The 'wall' is a reference to the proposed physical barrier along the U.S.-Mexico border to prevent illegal immigration. In the video, the wall symbolizes the debate over national security versus compassion for immigrants. Participants express both support and opposition to the wall, with some viewing it as a necessary measure for protecting American citizens and others seeing it as a symbol of division and exclusion.

💡Citizenship

Citizenship denotes the status of a person recognized under the law of a sovereign state or local jurisdiction, and being a citizen typically grants certain rights and responsibilities. The script discusses the desire of many undocumented immigrants to become citizens and the challenges they face in doing so, such as bureaucratic hurdles and long waiting periods.

💡Identity Politics

Identity politics refers to political positions based on the interests and perspectives of social groups with which people identify. In the video, identity politics is mentioned in the context of how certain groups, such as Latinos or Muslims, are perceived and treated in the immigration debate. The script highlights how identity can influence political opinions and policy decisions.

💡Legal Citizenship

Legal citizenship is the status of a person recognized under the law of a sovereign state, holding rights and duties. The video discusses the idea that becoming a legal citizen should be easier, reflecting a viewpoint that the current immigration system is overly complex and restrictive. Participants argue for a more accessible path to citizenship for those who wish to contribute to society.

💡Religion

Religion is mentioned in the video as a factor that can influence个人观点 and policy stances on immigration. For example, some participants might invoke their religious beliefs to argue for compassion and acceptance of immigrants, while others might use religious values to justify stricter immigration controls. The script shows how religion can be both a unifying and divisive force in the immigration debate.

💡System

The 'system' in the context of the video refers to the immigration system, which includes laws, policies, and procedures governing the movement of people across borders. Participants discuss the system as being flawed and in need of reform, with some arguing that it is too restrictive and others that it is too lenient. The script uses the term to highlight the complexity and controversy surrounding immigration policy.

Highlights

Ernesto Rocha introduces himself as an undocumented storyteller.

Juan Camillo Gonzalez Chorio Lara (JC) shares his perspective as a singer, actor, and undocumented immigrant.

Danyeli, a spoken word artist and paralegal, discusses her 12 years as an undocumented immigrant.

Jonathon Miranda, who is pro-wall, shares his stance on immigration.

Julie, a grad student and undocumented immigrant, talks about her experience.

Jazmina Savetra, a legal immigrant, shares her journey to the U.S.

The panel discusses feeling threatened by opposing views on immigration.

The impact of Trump's policies on various communities is explored.

JC challenges the misinterpretation of Trump's comments about Mexicans.

The discussion turns to the idea of 'America first' and its implications.

The concept of 'illegal immigration hurting legal immigration' is debated.

Participants share personal stories about the immigration process and its challenges.

The panelists discuss the rhetoric of 'good versus bad' immigrants.

The importance of language when discussing immigration and asylum seekers is highlighted.

The debate on the necessity and impact of a border wall is presented.

The idea that becoming a legal citizen should be easier is discussed.

The conversation concludes with a call for solutions rather than focusing on problems.

Transcripts

- Look at a human being and say,

"You deserve to be under one roof

with the people that you love."

- But does that give you a right to break into my house?

- Exactly. - To break into whose house?

- Yeah. - Our house.

- Because we can take that back and think about

whose house? - Our house.

(cymbal roll echoing)

(slow drumming music)

- Hello, I'm Ernesto Rocha

and I am a proud undocumented storyteller.

- My name is Juan Camillo Gonzalez Chorio Lara.

For the Gringos, JC.

I'm a singer and actor.

- I'm Danyeli.

I'm a spoken word artist and a paralegal,

and I was undocumented for 12 years.

- Jonathon Miranda and I'm pro-wall.

- Hi, I'm Julie.

I'm a grad student and I'm also undocumented.

- Jazmina Savetra.

I'm a immigrant.

I came to this country through the legal process.

(titles whoosh)

- [Producer] The first statement is,

"I feel threatened by the other side."

(footsteps echoing)

- Of course.

- The day after Trump's inauguration,

I found my mother at 6:00 AM trying to find out

how much it would cause to ship our washing machine

to the Dominican Republic.

She said, "I just want you to be ready

in case immigration comes."

Ever since it has felt like my family

and my community have been taking punches,

over and over and over again, trying to prove our humanity,

that we deserve basic human rights.

- I think it was never about a very specific country

and a very specific legal status.

I think it was a fear of everyone who is different.

He put forth the Muslim ban,

and through that process,

a lot of people lost their green card,

their their permanent resident status too.

And after that he came after birthright citizenship.

Undocumented immigrants,

and I think Mexican undocumented immigrants in particular,

were the first to take the hit.

But that category is gonna continue to grow

and it's going to consume a lot of us.

- Well, I feel attacked by the other side

just because I love this country.

Just because I respect the law here.

I feel attacked when I cannot feel free to support

my president because they profile me as a bad person

just because I want the best for the people in this country.

(percussion instruments tapping)

- All right, we said the T word.

As a Latino, I'm already put in this box

that I'm supposed to think this way.

I'm supposed to act this way.

I'm supposed to just assumedly go with my group.

Trump said very specific things

and they get twisted around and presented as, like,

"Well he thinks all people, all Mexicans rapist."

It's like, that's not what he said.

The Muslim ban, it wasn't a Muslim ban.

They're banning specific countries

that were already banned under Obama.

So to call it a Muslim ban is a very wide umbrella

of association.

- I only really feel threatened by is by media.

It is by identity politics as you were,

JC was saying, like first off,

I don't have a problem with the stories you guys have.

You come to America for betterment, but, sadly,

you're a minority of another minority of people that do come

across the border for other, not good intent, purposes.

The reason why you talked mostly

about Mexico is because it's right on our southern border.

It's right there and our border is totally whack.

It's weak, it's nothing there.

That's why I voted for Trump and want a wall

is because, even though,

even coming through the legal process,

I still want you to be protected.

- But also, you know, president Trump had been saying

that he want to help the good illegal people,

the people who really love this country.

I mean because you need to accept not everyone is good.

I mean, you can be here illegally

and be respectful to this country and love this country.

- I think there's a theme here, this theme of legality.

The way in which Trump supporters have used this idea

of legality has been completely incorrect

and dismissive of this country's history.

If you were to use that same argument 60 years ago,

when segregation with legal, you could have said,

"I don't want black people in this restaurant

because the law says that white people and black people

shouldn't be in the same spot.

I have the right to impose that law."

Laws change.

Laws can be unjust.

(titles whoosh)

- [Producer] "I believe in America first."

(footsteps echoing)

- I actually believe America first

but I believe every country should have that anything.

I do want America first,

'cause even though these people are not undocumented

the moment I hope that they gain citizenship

which is hopes ASAP, that they come to a country

that is prepared to give 'em opportunities

and to go for their goals and dreams

that they wish to aspire.

- It's like America first.

It's like we start with the individual.

So, is your life more important than my life?

In my world, my life is more important than your life,

and I do my best to take care of myself.

I fill my cup up,

so that I can fill up your cup.

(percussion instruments tap)

- That's what's first, for me, is community.

I don't stand behind any country.

I can't say that I think Dominican Republic comes first.

I don't.

I think it's people come first.

- America first is such a dangerous concept.

I don't know if you realize

but that's the reason why the world is constantly at war.

America first is about white Americans first.

It's white America first,

versus the few people from all around different countries,

different colors, who are okay with white America first

because they're gonna get the seconds.

And there's always the temptation for me to align myself

in that place and say, "If I just keep my head

down a little bit, then I will be next in line too."

'Cause, guess what?

I am more privileged than undocumented immigrants who come

from Latin America who have crossed the border.

And that is shameful to me.

And I have to, every day, train myself

to put that thought down

because I wanna align myself with people.

And I know you said, "How can I think about another family

when my own family is hurting?"

But why wasn't America thinking

about that when it came into the Dominican Republic?

When it created incredibly uneven trading deals with Mexico?

When it bombed the hell out of my country?

Right? Wasn't that for America first?

Isn't that why I'm here?

(titles whoosh)

- [Producer] "Illegal immigration hurts legal immigration."

(footsteps echoing)

- It's like you're waiting in line to get into this place,

and for you to, you know,

go to the back of the line, stand in line and wait,

and to watch people cut in line in front of you.

It's a big "fuck you" to my family.

It's a big "fuck you" to the whole system.

It's a whole, it's not about a wall.

Fuck the wall.

It's about principles.

- Like, you said it's based on principles.

If even even waited, there would be no need

for a wall, in general.

When you come here legally and you got cut off, now you're

in a position of being like in the middle class or even

in the wealth class where now you're paying more taxes

for someone to not pay taxes

and now you're paying for their education,

and that could have gone for your children.

That could have gone for American citizens

and now we're giving it to them.

(percussion instruments tap)

- 'Cause we had a process for a green card in place.

And guess what?

We waited those two years

and what happened was we were denied because they said,

"Your parents aren't making enough money."

That happened two more times.

Every time we were denied,

my parents decided to stay

'cause our entire lives were here.

Our entire community, our church community, our friends.

When you say there is a right way to immigrate here,

and there is an illegal way,

and you use a big fat label on all of that,

you're really obscuring all these diverse details

about people's lives.

- It's a really dangerous rhetoric when you begin

to put good versus bad, legal versus illegal.

Listen, I crossed into this country, I migrated.

I walked with my brothers and my mother.

I was a poor kid who had no shoes.

How could I know that there was a legal process?

And when I came into this country, I absolutely found

out what it was to be entering into that legal process.

I'm in that process now, 11 years and counting.

So what you're doing is instead of looking up

to the systems that are putting all of these situations

into place, you are looking down to the people

most downtrodden.

We did nothing to deserve this.

It is actually the systems that are at play,

that you have to look and reflect and say,

"Why is this happening to your family?

Why is it that your people..."

- But why people doesn't fight to their own government?

Why they wanna fight and demand America.

- And that is insulting.

- [Jazmina] Why?

- That is insulting. - [Jazmina] Why do you guys

victimize yourself?

- There is no victimization. - [Danyeli] Victimize?

- Why can I- - How can you say,

how dare you say that there is a victimization

between my mother making a very real strategic decision

and logical, to say I am going to reunite my kids

together to live under one roof.

- Everyone have their own story and I'm fine with this.

But now we talking about the thousand

of people trying to jump our territory.

- Language is important.

Language is important.

How you discuss the people who are

seeking asylum. - I mean, I'm just

getting tired to, to feel like,

"Oh I cannot say this because they gonna get offended."

I mean I'm offended because I'm an American.

Because I'm follow the law.

I'm offend because I'm a Christian woman,

because I'm a woman with principle, with moral.

With faith.

- Something that's very interesting to me

is when religion comes into place, right?

And we say, "I am an American, I am a Christian."

Yet you are unable to put aside the political

and look at a human being and say, you deserve to be

under one roof with the people that you love,

regardless of what the government decides to call you.

- But does that give you a right to break into my house?

- Exactly. - To break into whose house?

- Yeah. - Our house.

- Because we can take that back and think about,

"whose house?" - Our house.

- Look, whose house? - Whose house?

(titles whoosh)

- [Producer] The next statement is,

"Becoming a legal citizen should be easier."

(footsteps echoing)

- If you look at the way that the government issues visas

it's in a completely political system.

Who gets it?

What time?

How many years?

And so when you think about citizenship,

it absolutely should be easier in the legal process.

But let's not lose sight.

The citizenship also means the way that you move about

in your values and say, "I can be a citizen

of this country because I am a human being."

- And I think we have to recognize

that undocumented immigrant don't want to be undocumented.

If it were up to undocumented immigrant,

that will go, show up, apply for a green card,

and then apply for citizenship and that's it.

The system is currently failing because we are not

appointing people who are able to understand why

people are coming, people who are able to connect

with the different stories that people are bringing forth.

- But the problem is we need all to agree.

But even legal or illegal immigration need to be controlled

because you can see what is happening here in California.

We see our street looking like a third world.

- You know, I would respect that.

I would respect that opinion if I didn't know

that more people were leaving the US than coming in.

That undocumented immigrants are not the one predominantly

committing crimes in this country.

You see that people are more likely to leave now

than come in. - This is funny.

Let me tell you this, I'm sorry to disagree.

When people are complaining about guns, they say,

"Oh we need gun control because even one life matter."

Well the same thing.

Even if they undocumented people having committed a crime,

even one life matter.

And let me tell you this, I have a sister who became a widow

at the age of 34 with two little boys,

because her husband got killed for an illegal alien.

And my brother-in-law's life matters.

(percussion instruments tap)

The wall for me is a message of love from our president

to his people because he want to protect the people

from this side of the wall.

Even you guys.

He wants to protect everyone from this side of the wall.

But we need to understand home is first.

How can I help someone far away

if I'm not able to help the people who is close to me?

- The reason why I am so against the wall,

number one, economically, very infeasible.

And number two, I don't see the wall

as being a physical barrier between two countries.

I see it as a very symbolic barrier between people.

People who are running

for their lives are still going to come.

'Cause, trust me, your desire to live is going

to help you find a way to get over some wall.

You know that's not the problem.

Walls, barricades, barriers

are not the economic, moral answer.

- Everyone in this room can make America great

by finding solutions rather than finding problems.

That's what a lot of people like to do.

We like to point out what's wrong and not trying to figure

out what we can do to make it better.

And we all agree that the immigration system sucks.

Like you do what again?

Like you're into the field of?

- I'm a paralegal but I've been a legal representative.

Okay, and so you know more about it than I do.

I don't know shit compared to you.

So, I want to hear you more,

your perspective and I'm open to that.

That's what America needs more of.

You have something I don't.

You're superior in that field.

And if we look at intellect

before skin tone or before politics

that would open up more doors to make America great

or make America even better.

It's people who are in this country,

who wanna fight for the betterment of it,

is what's making this country great.

(musical chimes ringing)

- I'm kidding! - Come here.

- [JC] I really appreciate that.

- I have so many questions

but I really appreciated your input.

- Yeah.

(musical chimes ringing)