Israelism Screening and Discussion with Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein, and Simone Zimmerman

Summary

The transcript captures a panel discussion acknowledging the Jewish holiday of Tu Bishvat and the significance of land recognition. It addresses the historical and ongoing issues of Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including the impact of Gold Corp's mining operations on indigenous communities. The panel, featuring Dr. Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein, and Simone Zimmerman, emphasizes the need for decolonization, challenging dominant narratives, and supporting Palestinian rights. They discuss the importance of education, solidarity, and the role of Jewish voices in promoting peace and justice.

Takeaways

• 📅 The event begins on the Jewish holiday of Tu Bishvat, known as the New Year for trees.
• 🌳 The location, Musqueam land, is acknowledged for its historical significance as a place of big-leafed maple trees and as unceded territory.
• 🏢 The venue, Gold Corp Centre for the Arts, is criticized for being named after a company with a legacy of harm to indigenous people and environmental degradation.
• 🌱 The importance of recognizing and renaming places in the spirit of decolonization is emphasized.
• 📽 The film screening is part of an effort to raise awareness and promote dialogue about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
• 👥 The panel features a diverse group of speakers, including Dr. Gabor Maté, Naomi Klein, and Simone Zimmerman, who share their perspectives on the conflict.
• 🤝 The event highlights the solidarity of Jewish and non-Jewish voices in advocating for justice and peace.
• 🔥 There is a call to action for the audience to engage with the material presented, seek out further screenings, and discuss the issues with others.
• 🌟 The film and discussion underscore the need for challenging narratives, recognizing trauma, and working towards collective healing and justice.
• 💡 The event concludes with a call to support organizations working towards justice in Palestine and to continue the conversation in communities.

Q & A

What is the significance of Tu Bishvat in the context of the discussion?

Tu Bishvat is the Jewish holiday of the New Year for trees. It is significant in the context as it relates to the acknowledgment of land and nature, and the speaker hopes to honor this holiday by recognizing the land where maple trees once stood before it was stolen.

What is the meaning of 'kcalay' and why is it mentioned in the script?

Kcalay is a word that roughly translates to 'the place of the big-leafed maple trees'. It is mentioned to highlight the historical and cultural significance of the land where the event is taking place, and to connect with the indigenous history of the area.

Why is there a call to rename the theater and cultural center named after Gold Corp?

The call to rename the theater and cultural center is due to Gold Corp's legacy of harmful practices, including environmental degradation, displacement of indigenous communities, and corruption. The speaker suggests that renaming the center is a step towards decolonization and recognizing the ongoing harm caused by such companies.

What is the role of Dr. Gabor Maté in the event?

Dr. Gabor Maté is a speaker at the event and is introduced as a bestselling author, a survivor of the Nazi Holocaust, and a longtime critic of Israel's policies that harm Palestinians. He is also recognized for his work with patients challenged by drug addiction, mental illness, and HIV in Vancouver.

What is the importance of the film being screened at the event?

The film is important as it serves as a medium to facilitate a conversation about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the role of Jewish voices in this conflict, and the need for acknowledgment and change. It is a tool for education and a catalyst for dialogue.

What does Naomi Klein mean by 'open warfare against objective reality'?

Naomi Klein refers to the denial of factual information and reality by certain groups or narratives that favor a particular agenda. In the context of the discussion, it likely pertains to the denial of the realities of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict by some Jewish leaders and the media.

Why is there a focus on the trauma experienced by Palestinians?

The focus on the trauma experienced by Palestinians is to highlight the ongoing suffering and psychological impact of the conflict. It underscores the need for understanding and addressing the human cost of the conflict beyond political discussions.

What is the connection between the Jewish Community Center and the Israeli flag mentioned in the script?

The connection mentioned is that the Jewish Community Center displays Israeli flags, symbolizing a conflation of Jewish identity with the state of Israel and its policies, which some participants take issue with as not representative of all Jewish people's views.

What is the significance of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the context of the discussion?

The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising is mentioned to draw a parallel between the resistance against oppression in the past and current resistance movements. It highlights the diversity of Jewish responses to oppression and the historical continuum of struggle.

What does the speaker mean when they say 'the never again for anyone'?

The phrase 'the never again for anyone' refers to the idea that the post-Holocaust sentiment of 'never again' should apply to all people, not just Jews. It emphasizes the universality of human rights and the importance of preventing all forms of genocide and mass atrocities.

How does the speaker suggest dealing with the rise of the far right and white supremacy?

The speaker suggests that dealing with the rise of the far right and white supremacy involves building solidarity across movements, fighting anti-Semitism within left-wing movements, and creating counter-power through community organizing rather than relying solely on electoral politics.

Outlines

00:00

🌳 Recognition of Indigenous Land and Jewish Holiday

The speaker begins by acknowledging the land they are on, recognizing it as the traditional territory of the Musqueam people, and noting the coincidence of the Jewish holiday of Tu Bishvat, the new year for trees. They express hope to honor the holiday by remembering the big-leafed maple trees that once stood there. The speaker also addresses the naming of the theater after Goldcorp, a company with a controversial history of environmental and social impacts, particularly in relation to indigenous lands and people worldwide. There's a call for the renaming of the venue in the spirit of decolonization. Dr. Adele Issaander is introduced, expressing gratitude for the support of independent Jewish voices and the presence of a large crowd, signifying the importance of solidarity during difficult times.

05:00

📽️ Introduction to the Film and its Importance

The speaker discusses the difficulty of the conversations surrounding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and emphasizes the importance of not negating anyone's tragedy. The objective is to use these difficult discussions as opportunities for learning, growth, and collective living. They mention the film's popularity, with many screenings across various cities, and encourage the audience to share the film with others. The speaker also introduces the panelists, including Simone Zimmerman, an organizer and strategist in the Jewish left, Dr. Gabor Maté, an author and activist, and Naomi Klein, an award-winning journalist and author. Each panelist is briefly praised for their work and influence.

10:03

🗣️ Personal Reflections on the Film and its Impact

Naomi Klein shares her gratitude for being part of an intergenerational conversation about stolen land. She discusses the influence of Holocaust survivors like Dr. Gabor Maté, who have consistently advocated for Palestinian rights. She also expresses her appreciation for the leadership shown by young Jewish activists and the importance of learning, unlearning, and storytelling in bridging divides. The conversation touches on the shame felt by犹太人 when their narratives dominate and overshadow the experiences of Palestinians, emphasizing the need for a reckoning with the supremacist narratives of the past.

15:05

🌐 Discussing the Trauma of Colonialism and Leadership

The speaker reflects on the film's portrayal of Jewish community leaders who use fear to maintain control, contrasting this with the leadership shown by the film's subjects. They criticize the conflation of Jewish identity with Zionism and argue for a separation of the two, citing historical examples of Jewish opposition to Zionism. The speaker also discusses the trauma caused by colonialism and the need to challenge dominant narratives that perpetuate this trauma.

20:08

📚 Book References and the Impact of Narratives

Dr. Gabor Maté discusses the concept of 'objective warfare against reality' from Naomi Klein's book 'Doppelganger' and relates it to the current political climate. He describes the normalization of dissociation between words and reality, particularly in the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He also touches on the shock that arises when events do not align with existing narratives and the difficulty of empathizing with the experiences of others, especially Palestinians.

25:09

🌿 Trauma and the Cycle of Colonial Violence

The speaker connects the trauma experienced by Palestinians to the broader history of colonialism and its impact on indigenous people. They discuss the retraumatization of Jewish people through the constant reminder of their own trauma, while ignoring the trauma inflicted on others. The conversation also addresses the role of the media and politicians in perpetuating colonialist mindsets and the importance of challenging these narratives.

30:12

🏗️ Reflections on Israel and the Reality of Occupation

Simone Zimmerman shares her experiences in Israel and Palestine, highlighting the stark contrast between life in Tel Aviv and the daily violence faced by Palestinians in the West Bank. She discusses the reality of Israeli apartheid and the need for Jews to confront the denial and celebration of this system within their own communities.

35:14

🌎 Challenging the Conflation of Jewishness and Zionism

The speaker addresses the question of separating Israel from Jewish affairs, arguing that the conflation of the two is a choice made by those who conflate them, not by those who seek to separate them. They discuss the history of Jewish opposition to Zionism and the need to build Jewish identity independent of Zionism.

40:15

🔄 Intergenerational Shifts in Jewish Identity and Activism

Naomi Klein discusses the intergenerational shift in Jewish identity and activism, emphasizing the need to move beyond an oppositional stance towards a confident and diverse Jewish identity. She explores the ways in which Zionism has historically ended conversations about what it means to be Jewish and the importance of reengaging with these多元 conversations.

45:17

🌱 The Roots of Fascism and the Need for Solidarity

The speaker connects the rise of fascism to the historical context of division and the need for solidarity among all oppressed groups. They discuss the importance of fighting anti-Semitism within broader left-wing movements and the need for a unified front against all forms of hatred and oppression.

50:20

📉 The Impact of Horror and the Potential for Change

Naomi Klein reflects on the potential for positive change emerging from horrific events, using the Holocaust as an example of how a collective trauma led to significant advancements in international humanitarian law. She emphasizes the need for a commitment to universal principles of equality, justice, and liberation.

55:21

🗽 Electoral Politics and the Fight Against Fascism

The speaker addresses the challenges of electoral politics, particularly in the context of rising far-right movements. They discuss the importance of building counter-power to fascism through grassroots movements and the need to make informed decisions in the voting booth.

00:23

🌟 Acknowledging the Filmmakers and the Importance of Solidarity

The speaker acknowledges the filmmakers and the importance of their work in raising awareness and fostering solidarity. They express gratitude for the opportunity to be part of the discussion and emphasize the importance of continuing the conversation and activism around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Keywords

💡Tubish fat

Tubish fat, also known as Tu Bishvat, is a Jewish holiday that celebrates the 'New Year of Trees'. It is mentioned in the script as a way to acknowledge the beginning of the event and to highlight the connection to nature and the land, which is a central theme of the discussion. The speaker uses this holiday to reflect on the historical and ongoing issues of land rights in Israel and Palestine, emphasizing the need to honor and respect the land's past and present.

💡Land recognition

Land recognition is a practice of acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land on which a meeting or event is taking place. In the script, the speaker performs a land recognition to honor the history and presence of the Musqueam people, drawing attention to the broader themes of colonization, displacement, and the need for decolonization.

💡Decolonization

Decolonization refers to the process of challenging and dismantling colonial power structures and ideologies. The script mentions the need for decolonization in the context of renaming a cultural center named after Goldcorp, a company with a history of harmful mining operations. This highlights the ongoing struggle for justice and recognition for indigenous peoples and the impact of colonial practices.

💡Goldcorp

Goldcorp is a mining company mentioned in the script for its negative environmental and social impacts, particularly on indigenous communities. The company serves as an example of the extractivist mindset and the legacy of harm that corporations can leave on communities and the environment.

💡Neocolonialism

Neocolonialism is the practice of influencing or controlling less-developed countries in ways that are reminiscent of colonialism. The script uses the term to describe Canada's relationship with other countries, particularly in the context of resource extraction and the exploitation of indigenous lands and peoples.

💡Extractivism

Extractivism is an economic model focused on the extraction of natural resources from a region, often leading to environmental degradation and social conflict. The script criticizes extractivism as part of the legacy of companies like Goldcorp, emphasizing the need for a more sustainable and equitable approach to resource use.

💡Indigenous rights

Indigenous rights refer to the collective rights of indigenous peoples to maintain and protect their cultural traditions, lands, and political rights. The script discusses the ongoing struggle for indigenous rights in the context of land theft and environmental destruction, calling for greater recognition and respect for these rights.

💡Zionism

Zionism is a political movement that supports the establishment and development of a Jewish state in the historic land of Israel. The script critiques certain aspects of Zionism, particularly its historical role in the displacement of Palestinian people and the ongoing conflict in the region.

💡Apartheid

Apartheid refers to a system of institutionalized racial segregation and discrimination. The script uses the term to describe the Israeli policies and practices that many believe unfairly target and marginalize Palestinians, drawing parallels with South African apartheid.

💡Solidarity

Solidarity is the act of standing together with others in support of a common cause. The script emphasizes the importance of solidarity among different communities and social movements, particularly in the struggle for Palestinian rights and against all forms of oppression.

💡Trauma

Trauma refers to the deep psychological or emotional distress caused by experiencing or witnessing violent or life-threatening events. The script discusses intergenerational trauma, particularly in the context of the Holocaust and its impact on Jewish identity and Israeli policies, as well as the trauma experienced by Palestinians due to ongoing conflict and violence.

Highlights

Acknowledgment of the Jewish holiday of Tu Bishvat, the new year of trees.

Recognition of the traditional land use by the Musqueam people and the impact of land theft.

Critique of the naming of the theater and cultural center after Goldcorp, a company with a history of environmental harm.

Call for the renaming of the theater as part of the decolonization process.

Introduction of Dr. Gabor Maté, a prominent author and speaker, and his work with patients in Vancouver's downtown east side.

Dr. Maté's background as a Holocaust survivor and his criticism of Israel's policies.

Naomi Klein's expression of gratitude to the organizers and the importance of independent Jewish voices.

Discussion of the difficulty of conversations around the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the importance of acknowledging different narratives.

Emphasis on the need to challenge the narrative of colonialism and the Western world's complicity.

Naomi Klein's call for a reckoning with the supremacist narratives that exclude Palestinian trauma.

Dr. Maté's critique of the use of Jewish trauma to justify current Israeli policies and the need to recognize the trauma inflicted on others.

The importance of telling stories that show personal and collective growth, unlearning, and the ability to change.

Simone Zimmerman's reflection on her experience in Israel and the contrast between Israeli and Palestinian realities.

The call to separate Jewish identity from the policies of the Israeli state and to build Jewish identity independently of Zionism.

Naomi Klein's emphasis on the need to challenge the exceptionalism in the Jewish narrative and to fight against fascism collectively.

The discussion on the impact of war trauma on children in Palestine and Gaza, and the potential long-term effects on mental health.

The importance of centering Palestinian culture and history in the dialogue moving forward.

The challenge of organizing around the rise of the right and the disenfranchisement with current political leadership.

Final thoughts on the need for solidarity, the acknowledgment of the filmmakers' work, and the call to support organizations involved in justice for Palestine.

Transcripts

um I'd like to start this evening with

an a recognition a land recognition um

and I'd like to acknowledge that this

evening is actually the beginning of the

Jewish holiday of tubish fat uh so for

those who don't know tubish fat is the

new year of trees and I think it's

appropriate to point out that we now sit

with uh what was traditionally and still

is a space called k calay um I hope that

I'm getting the pronunciation correct

there uh I've only heard it a couple

times and hopefully that changes soon

which is a coish word um Kay roughly

translates to the place of the big

leafed maple trees uh while the Jewish

nearer of trees has long been used by

Israel in its effort to steal

Palestinian Land by planting trees where

villages once stood I hope we can

instead honor this beautiful Holiday by

marking the place where the maples once

stood here on musam sish and slay with

tooth territory where once these folks

uh use this space as their summer area

for fishing and Gathering and for uh

preserving as well um this land was

obviously to many of us uh stolen um

even even though it is unseated

territory and we need to make that

abundantly clear in all of our actions

especially when we're talking about

Palestine so let's just take a moment

for

that you may have also noticed that this

theater and Cultural Center is named

after the company gold

Corp uh yes who's been to a show here

before where it's been mentioned that

gold Corp is a company that does things

that aren't great for the world okay

that's great so I'm going to follow in

that

tradition uh so gold Corp despite it

have being uh having been acquired and

absorbed by another company in

2019 uh has a long Legacy uh that is

dark I'd be remiss if during this land

recognition I didn't also acknowledge

the ongoing harm and

Devastation uh of gold corp's mining

operations on indigenous people

throughout the world gold KP was part of

Canada's neocolonial and extractivist

project uh and still is to this day

their operations have resulted in Mass

displacement and poor health for

communities surrounding their minds

killing of activists rampant

environmental degradation and the

corruption of governments both at home

and abroad

shame it's time for SFU to rename this

place in the spirit of

decolonization um and so now to say a

few more words and to lead us uh to the

film here is Dr Adel isander who is the

head of the center for comparative

Muslim studies uh here at SFU which is a

co-sponsor for tonight's event thank

you thank you so much Armory uh welcome

everyone it's uh it's really inspiring

to see such a large crowd and for those

of you who don't know there's also an

overspill room in Harbor Center that's

also at uh or near capacity so this is

very exciting for an event of the sort

um there's not much I can say beyond the

fact that uh you know all of us are

immensely grateful for um independent

Jewish voices and so many Jewish uh

colleagues friends uh comrades uh who

have stepped up and uh and expressed

solidarity during these very very very

difficult times um those uh colleagues

are people who we know are having to um

you know swim against against the tide

and do things Against the Grain which in

the spirit of the most fundamentally

prophetic and Jewish tradition is

immensely courageous and a testament to

the legacy of so many remarkable Jewish

intellectuals throughout time and

history so I just wanted to you know

acknowledge

that

the while we may have helped book The

Room

all the heavy lifting has been done

largely by independent Jewish voices and

Kylie yes of course from the center for

comparative Muslim studies our unsung

hero who doesn't like her name mentioned

in these contexts but nevertheless Kylie

thank you for doing what you do and so

many volunteers thank you

yes disappears into into the night um

and so many volunteers who are here to

help and support both in this location

and at Harbor centers at Cent

um I do want to say that um a lot of the

conversations that are being had about

this subject matter are difficult and we

have to take us a moment to stop and

recognize how difficult they are and

they're difficult for everyone involved

um and so the objective here is to not

in any way negate anyone's tragedy and

Collective memory of trauma but

nevertheless to also tease open those

wounds to understand how they can be an

opportunity for learning for growth and

for Collective living which is what this

project is all about um I'm no gabber

mate you might be know my cin but I'm no

gabber mate you probably don't want to

hear from me and this film is really

remarkable I've heard a lot about it I

haven't seen it but uh but I want to

leave you with uh the thought that um so

many people wanted and contined to want

to see this film it's being being

screened in

45 there are 45 screenings in 40 cities

or the other way around and

proliferating remarkably there are five

screenings across the city in the coming

days if you like it recommend it to

others please tell people when these

screenings are happening this event is

brought to you not only by independent

Jewish voices but also by numerous um

departments across the University of

course um the uh SFU Van City for

Community engagement I have to look at

the logos to remember but they're all

cut off the uh labor studies program the

school for international studies the

institute for humanities and several

others who have supported so without

further Ado I wish to leave you with

israelism and the subsequent

conversation thank you

[Applause]

all yeah it's now my pleasure to say

that uh who these panelists are uh

unfortunately we're short on time and so

my introductions will be necessarily

incomplete

however the speakers tonight really uh

need very little introduction and many

of us have been fans of theirs for years

so uh in order of appearance uh in the

film uh we have Simone

Zimmerman Simone is an organizer and

strategist based in New York City she is

a co-founder of the anti- aparte

organization if not

now a leading GE group in the ceasefire

movement she is an emerg emerging

thought leader on the Jewish left and

I'll I'll say a really profound person

uh to to witness in her element on

screen so um we'll also welcome now uh

Dr Gabor

[Applause]

mate speaker bestselling author of five

bestselling books he also has received

an outstanding alumnus award from this

very institution and was awarded with

the Order of Canada

um perhaps a lot of hack politicians and

bag men so no big deal let's not applaud

the Order of Canada but the recognition

of Dr matate for 12 years perhaps more

importantly Dr matate worked just a few

walks away in Vancouver's downtown east

side with patients challenged by intense

drug addiction mental illness and HIV

including at the van at Vancouver's

supervised injection site North

America's first of its

[Applause]

kind another important note uh is that

born in Hungary to Jewish parents Dr

matate is a survivor of the Nazi

Holocaust and longtime critic of

Israel's policies that harm Palestinians

he is a member of independent your

voices Naomi

Klein award-winning journalist columnist

International bestselling author of nine

books published in over 35 languages no

logo shock Doctrine this changes

everything no is not enough on fire and

of course

doppelganger

her writing has appeared in leading

Publications around the world and she's

a columnist for the guardian she's an

honorary professor at ruers and of

course uh an associate professor of

geography at UBC and founding

co-director of ubc's Center for climate

justice so thank you for welcoming our

guests and I hate to do this uh but I'm

going to start with you Nami um if

you're able to uh give us your

impressions of the film to start yeah um

hi everyone I feel really grateful to to

be in this space with all of

you

um on these stolen lands talking about

stolen

land and I feel really grateful to be

part of this really beautiful

intergenerational

conversation um you know gabar has been

speaking out um for justice for

Palestinians as a holocaust Survivor

since as long as I can remember had a

huge influence on my um coming out uh um

as a uh as a as a post Zionist

Jew

um and you know these have been such

heartbreaking

months when I think all of us have seen

people who we had so respect for and who

did really great work in different

domains moral work suddenly excusing

genocide suddenly

rationalizing um bombing hospitals

and and

schools

and just retreating into

a kind of a trauma Loop and so I feel

particular gratitude for for um Dr mate

for your huge and unshaking moral

leadership and consistency and it's not

something that we can take for granted

um so I want to recognize that and

Simone I just I feel so grateful to you

you know watching the leadership that

you showed in building

the the moral Jewish youth Le movement

that we have seen in the streets over

these very very dark

months um you know it's

been a you know for me as a Jewish

person the um you know the single source

of Hope um has been seeing if not now

Jewish voice for peace independent

Jewish voices rise immediately you and

go into this breach in the thousands you

know um in the in in the tens of

thousands and so you know that doesn't

come out of nowhere that's the work of

Decades of often unseen work and thank

goodness that you invested in

institution building I feel so much

gratitude you know the end of this film

which I which is so

necessary

[Music]

um to watch you change your mind you you

know this is such a polarized moment and

you know I think particularly for young

people people feel expected to already

be in the place right to already know

everything and so just to model learning

to model unlearning to model uncertainty

that I you know as a as an educator I

can tell you there's nothing more

important right now than than for people

to be able to be on that kind of Journey

with you we need more stories like that

those types of stories where we see

ourselves change right we're all

prisoners of our own stories and none of

our stories are complete right we're all

we all need to be learning and be porous

to one another's stories and tell new

stories together that are more complete

that's the work of life right and we can

get so locked into our own stories so

it's a very very important thing that

this that this the work that this film

is

doing and I also feel you know to um

to Echo one of the one of the voices

from breaking the silence you know one

of the leaders of that remarkable

organization who talked about the shame

I also feel shame a lot of Shame and

have felt a lot of shame in these months

and even being here tonight because we

are in a genocide and there is a way

that Jewish stories are taking up too

much space there is a way in which our

um our talking our traumas our Loops are

not leaving space for Palestinian

Humanity

still

so so I think as we you know tease this

apart we have to hold that tension and

that reality and also think

about how when we do take up space when

we do speak in this moment that it has

to really be a process of Reckoning with

the way the story stories that so many

of us grew up with um were stories that

created a supremacy of trauma that did

not allow us as Jews to recognize to

know the trauma of others specifically

the trauma of

Palestinians

and that is impossible I don't want any

part of it you know and I think that

that is you know I was so struck in the

film just a more quick reaction is just

you know these so-called leaders in the

Jewish Community who entire work is the

work of terrorizing the people they

claim to to to to to represent they want

to keep Jewish people

terrified um that is not leadership that

is the opposite of leadership and there

is a generational shift you're a part of

it I'm so grateful for it and part of

this work now is just to Simply say

nobody elected them much of the the the

you know there there is no

accountability um for this leadership

they do not represent us we refuse to be

led um through mechanisms um of Terror

and I just just one that you know I

think the part of the weight of this

film is knowing that it's from the

before times you know and that final

lyrics know that was not The Darkest

Hour um it it can always get darker and

we are in a much much darker moment

right

now as we know and it always can right

it always can and those images you know

I've never been so chilled by the images

of Charlottesville I was chilled the

first many times I've seen it but now we

know they're on the March again and we

know that Trump is on his way back in

and we know that Israel is making

alliances with Marine Leen in France

with Georgia Malone in Italy with Victor

Orban in Hungary with every fascist

force in this country that does not

represent Jews this is deadly serious we

have to liberate ourselves from this

death machine it's

[Applause]

time well thank you Naomi

um I'm just reading a really good book

it's called doel ganger

by and um when I read books I always um

note down phrases that appeal to me so I

like to frame this initial remarks of

mine somewhere around some phrases out

of Naomi's book she talks about open

Warfare against objective

reality that's what we're facing right

now objective Warfare against objective

reality she talks about that's on page

five on p on page 156 she talks about

the normalization of the dissociation

between words from

reality now yesterday I took part in an

online debate you can find it on YouTube

with a rabbi WP l o

p um who was Rabbi from Los Angeles and

was at Brooks at

Harvard and

um we had to be polite and and you know

civil and I think I kept it together

pretty well but part of me wanted to

grab him by the neck and say what the

[ __ ] are you talking

about because he was denying

reality it's illegal in this country to

deny the Holocaust it's not illegal to

deny the

NBA if there was

a if there was a law against history

denial then most Jewish professors in

this country would be in

jail because they deny

reality and most Jewish spokesmen not

only Jewish by the way all the other um

acolytes and opportunists and

politicians you know the hypocrisy is

incredible

Ukraine we bring in any number of

Ukrainian refugees they limited the

number of Palestinian Gaza and refugees

to

1,000 and uh the the

uh comparison you can't even compare the

devastation between the two

countries you can't even compare it I

want to grab part of me as much as we

engage in civil discourse I'm so enraged

by what I see happening every day let's

go on with Naomi's

book she talks about shock is the gap

that opens up between the event and

existing narratives to explain the event

it's a gap between the event and the

existing

narratives being creatures of narrative

she says humans tend to be very

uncomfortable with

vacuums what's happened right now if

there's any if there's anything to be

gleaned that's positive from the current

horror is that a lot more people are

waking up is that the old narrative are

no longer covering the reality and

there's a shock right now for a lot of

people a lot of people of Goodwill not

even not necessarily Jews or

Palestinians are just so

uncomfortable there such heaviness in

people's hearts and the narrative that

they've been fed not just from the

Jewish Community or the official Jewish

Community but also by the

media by the

governments you know the same media that

brought us to Vietnam War and lied about

it for

years and the same media that brought us

the weapons of mass

destruction now brings us Israel's right

to defend

itself the shock the gap between the

narrative and

reality

and then Hannah or Naomi quotes Hanah

rent the great Jewish

intellectual who says that the

difficulty of making present to my mind

the standpoints of those who are

absent the utter

inability of most people for one second

to put themselves into the mindset of

Palestinians this Rabbi I was talking to

yesterday he said how come after three

generations they're still about

refugees unbelievable meanwhile he talks

about the Jews after 2,000 years being

Exiles I mean the disconnect the

dissociation

is let alone the hypocrisy is utterly

unfathomable Naomi qus quotes Philip

Roth the author as uh saying it's too

ridiculous to take seriously and too

serious to be ridiculous the great

prophet no sorry I said the great

prophet yeah

now when Simone is told or when Naomi is

told or I'm told that us as Jews

speaking out against Israeli I don't

what to call it policy I want to call

it it's not just a policy genocide it's

a whole

ideology it's a whole historical um

aggression it's not just a

policy but when we speak out against it

they're telling us you were promoting

anti-Semitism well that's too ridiculous

to be taken

seriously because I'm saying to these

people what what's between your

ears the whole world is watching

Palestinian children having to have

amputations without anesthetic on

kitchen tables that's the reality and

all the Jewish leaders are supporting it

in the name of the Jewish

people well how does that look to good

to non-jews of Good Will and what do you

think promotes

anti-Semitism

you and the state of the Jews doing this

in our name or Jews actually speaking

out against it it's too Ser

it's it's

um but unfortunately it's also too

serious to be ridiculous

it's it's

not it's a CRI it's criminal is what it

actually is it's criminal these polite

conversations about

Israel

actually what's actually going on is

mass murder and how do you have polite

conversations about mass murder how do

you have it but that's what we have to

do isn't

[Applause]

it Naomi further furthermore quotes

frienders who's one of the founders of

uh Jewish horses for peace Cecily

seski

who in Israel right now Simone was

telling me tonight over dinner and you

read about this in is Israeli press they

don't show any pictures of

Gaza they show pictures of Israeli

soldiers but they don't show what's

happening to the

Palestinians what they show night after

night after night is pictures of October

the 7th and the victims of October the

7th and they were victims they were

genuine

victims it's like trauma pornography is

what it is and CES said

and and and keep talking about Jewish

trauma you know the Holocaust and and

and uh all that Jews have suffered but

we've

never healed that trauma we've

sublimated it we've as noi points out in

their book we've created the opposite

the tough muscular tanned Israeli

soldier who rides rough shod over 12y

old

children the of the hostages or the in

this conversation yesterday the the

so-called neutral moderator you can

watch this on YouTube uh was asking

about the

hostages but what about the thousands of

Palestinian hostages tortured in Israeli

jails I was there I was there last year

I I I worked with some of them

amongst the Israeli prisoners I should

say the Palestinian prisoners exchanged

for the hostages the majority were

between 12 and 17 years of

age and these kids get beaten in in

Israeli jails you know what the crime is

their crime is painting as

anti-occupation

graffiti throwing stones at an Israeli

tank posting anti-occupation messages on

the internet they get arrested for for

it and taken for

jail well as CES seski said it's

retraumatization not remembering there's

a difference we keep wallowing in our

trauma in order not to have to recognize

the trauma that we've

inflicted on another people and we

continue

to and finally uh there says something

that um is not just applicable to Israel

and Jews and and this particular

conflict it's true in

general

because we live in the Western World now

the Western world has got a long history

of

colonialism you know the belgians killed

10 or 12 million

Africans about 120 years

ago in a few years years did you ever

read read about that in your

schools did you know that after after

the second world war the Dutch killed

nearly 300,000

Indonesians in an attempt to hold on to

their colonies anybody ever teach you

that anybody ever teach you that in the

1990s raise your hand if you've heard

about this and this is probably a

progressive audience but have you heard

that in the 1990s 100,000 Guatemalan

indigenous people were massacred by the

army that was trained by the Israeli

Army raise your hand if you knew about

that even in this audience it's a

minority these are the things we never

talk about if you went to school in

Canada raise your hand if anybody ever

told you when you were in school that

here in this province in the 1960s an

indigenous child if they spoke their

native tongue they could have a pin

stuck in their tongue raise your hand if

they told you that in school in in

school did they tell you that very few

so we live in a world where the attitude

and the denial of the

colonialist is

dominant and so naturally Israel's

colonization of Palestine is just taken

for granted it's not a crime it's just

the way it needs to

be and so Naomi says very articulately a

version of the same poisonous

deal all who are relative relatively

fortunate on the part on this partition

Planet are being offered take the gun

accept the cages foress your Escape pod

and your borders perfect your kids

protect your brand ignore the shadow

lands play the

victim the reason the media and the

politicians protect Israel so much cuz

it fits in so well with this privileged

colonialist globalist mindset so we're

not just up

against

the official Jewish leadership the

uh the Jewish trauma Vortex that a lot

of people are still totally caught in

we're also up against a system um that

is much larger than this political issue

and so that in uh challenging this

narrative we also have to challenge The

Narrative and the colonization of our

own minds thank

[Applause]

you well I I said I didn't want to go

first but now I'm like how do I go after

that um I I first wanted to just thank

uh JV and the incredible group of

organizers who just threw together five

screenings here this week and brought us

out and it's

just um I'm going to tell a

story um I've been thinking a lot about

where I was uh at this time last year

because a year ago is the last time that

I was in Palestine in

Israel

and I've I've been thinking a lot about

what what it was like there um a year

ago I went and I sat with an Israeli

friend who's a radical left activist in

Tel Aviv and she took me to her favorite

new coffee shop which is

built

alongside what used to be the train

tracks to D

dcus

and it's now this beautiful

open walkway where people walk with

their strollers and their dogs and we

had a really nice

cappuccino and she told me that uh at

these new democracy protests where

hundreds of thousands of Israelis were

going out and

protesting uh against the dismantling of

the Israeli Supreme

Court uh to protect their democracy of

course um that there was this fight

about if uh activists should be bringing

Palestinian flags of course Very quickly

the Israeli police actually banned it so

this then became a criminal act to bring

a Palestinian flag to one of these

protests

um and you know she showed me there's a

a new train station uh there the tel

aviv's new light rail was about to open

all looked very nice

and then I went and visited um some

friends and colleagues in

rala where they were seeing the news

about these Israeli democracy protests

um but they were a bit consumed by death

every single day in the West Bank last

year the Israeli military shot someone

and while I was there

visiting everyday life was usually shut

down often shut down um the Army there

were certain days where you know there

was a massacre in Nabis uh there was the

pagram in

haara

and these things you know barely make

the

news

20 whatever an hour drive

away

um

and

that I remember thinking how badly I

wish that my friends in rala could sit

in those coffee shops with me in Tel

Aviv and how Stark it was that the

reality of that place is built so that

the people the indigenous people of that

land can not

actually

um participate and benefit

from the society that has been built on

the ruins of their

Villages now that reality is what a

normal day under Israeli apart looked

like uh before October

7th

now here we are in a new reality

it um one that is far more

horrific and

scary and but I've been I've been

thinking a lot about just what it for me

as you just saw in this film I come from

a community where the the reality of

Israeli apartheid

is um you know at

best something that people can

conveniently look away from at worst

it's something that's very actively uh

systematically denied and even in some

parts

celebrated

and since October 7th what has just

become very present for me is as as I've

been you know I it literally manifests

like on my social media feed right it's

like two sides of of my screen

um you know on one side of my Feed My

People in the Jewish community that I

grew up in and Jewish Israelis who have

long been in denial of the reality

around them literally still cannot

understand the reality that they see

that that they are now living through

history started for them on October 7th

they were living in a normal country

before October 7th and now that sense of

safety and normaly is completely

shattered

um

and and as gor said

um there are so many people who are

actually having a moment of like hold on

a second something's not right here um

those of us on social media it's almost

impossible to avoid the just horrific

images coming out of Gaza if you know

even one person who's you know putting

it on your feed um breaking breaking

into your reality

[Music]

um I guess what I want to say to all of

you who came out to see this film and

those of you maybe I hope in the

audience there are people who maybe are

having these conversations for the first

time are having these conversations in

your communities maybe have people in

your life who

are yeah asking hard questions for the

first time as they're horrified and

heartbroken and

and what I I I don't feel that my story

is I don't think that I'm special I

think that this film is about telling

the story

of something first of all that it has

hap is a is a story that uh thousands of

tens hundreds of thousands of Jews

around the world have undergone I'm

feeling Beyond honored to be sitting on

a stage with two people who underwent

that process when it was much harder

than it was for

me and to be in that

lineage

and yeah for me as also as you said this

is not necessarily something that is a

uniquely Jewish story there's there's a

big Spotlight on them on Jews right now

to be asking hard questions about the

um the oppression that we are part of of

course Jews are not the the only ones

who are complicit in horrible systems of

Oppression and so I also hope that

there's there's a way that people

watching this film can can see in it a

very Universal message of what does it

mean to ask hard questions to allow

yourself to be transformed by heartbreak

and by grief at witnessing such

unspeakable oppression and violence and

and to take this the the very basic step

of like allowing yourself to be

shattered and reconstituted by by

stepping towards um a different vision

of of

Truth so thank you to all of our

panelists that was moving and profound

and I'm sure it will stay with you as

it's going to stay with me for weeks uh

we're going to move into the Q&A session

but uh you know in a cheeky move I might

ask the first question uh on behalf of

independent Jewish voices and then we'll

open it up to the floor I think we're

going to take two other questions after

I ask mine and then uh we'll go to the

panelists uh respond that sound okay

okay so um obviously this film is mostly

centered around the United States and

we're in a different nation state right

now regardless of what we might think of

that nation state uh in 2002 uh Pro

Palestine students successfully shut

down a talk by Benjamin Netanyahu at

conc CIO University and my son was a

part of that there's

[Applause]

a the there's a there's a film you can

watch um an nfb film called

discordia about that particular incident

yeah so um this was a huge game Cher and

a lot of Jews in this country from The

Establishment were completely upended by

the fact that this could happen and so

Heather ricean and Jerry Schwarz who we

might know the owners and Founders CEOs

of Indigo books can I get a

shame uh so they created what they

called the Israel emergency cabinet

which their task was to transform

Canadian Jewish institutions into

pro-israel advocacy

organizations uh and in a in a way that

was described by many Jews as a coup

within the Jewish Community the Israel

emergency cabinet uh managed to repl

place the 90-year-old Canadian Jewish

Congress in

2011 with their own organization called

the center for Israel and Jewish Affairs

which still exist to this day can I get

a shame sh my question for the panelists

tonight how do we as Jews separate

Israel from Jewish

Affairs well I'm Jewish and I used to

have affairs but I'm not

sorry here all night

um well it's that's not for us to answer

the question is why the hell are they

confused in the first place you know um

when I

uh there's this place called the Jewish

Community Center but I don't call I I go

swimming there you know and

uh two months ago I was just parking my

bicycle to go you know outside and this

woman comes up to me and says are you

and I said yes I am and uh she said well

what are you doing in the Jewish

Community Center I'm swimming well do

you know that a lot of people are

uncomfortable in fact they hate your

guts you know I said I'm sorry to hear

that no you're not when you go when you

when you go in the Jewish Community

Center you see Israeli

Flags so and many years ago there used

to be an organization called um juice

for just peace it was really a huge

organization of about 10 people here in

Vancouver and we had some events now one

of the events that we held was we

invited many of you have seen videos by

mik pelled have you mik ped is wrote a

book called The General's son uh his

father matatu mati pad was a member of

the Israeli general staff in

1967 and his mother's n pad his sister I

think was called in a killed in a

terrorist suicide

[Music]

bomb and moiko is a powerful um speaker

on behalf of Palestinian rights and he's

got very clear on no meaning of Zionism

he comes from really um high class

Zionist stalk you might say now his

father after he retired from the

military started this is

before Israel spoke to the um

PLO

because it's Shamir who was a terrorists

who murdered hundreds of Arabs and man

and bean another terrorist another prime

minister of Israel also responsible for

many many children and women being

killed in 1948 they said we don't

negotiate with

terrorists by the way there was a

wonderful cartoon uh the other day Joe

Biden says we don't negotiate with

terrorists we fund

them in any case Matti pet came out for

negotiating with the Palestinians the

Jewish Community Center would not allow

him to speak

there because it threatens Israel's

security the Jewish Community Center in

Vancouver knew much better how to

protect Israel's security than an

Israeli

General so this conflation between

jewishness and

Zionism we don't have to separate it

it's just reality the two have nothing

to do with each other we just need to

build our own Jews have uh sorry I said

we need to build our own swimming pools

yeah they're the ones who should explain

why they confuse the

two you know there were there were Jews

all

along since the beginning of the Zionist

movement who opposed

Zionism one of my great hero

unfortunately many of them were murdered

by the Nazi

Holocaust they

were there was um I'll finish talking in

a moment there was a one of my heroes is

a man called or was is a man called

meric Adelman meric Adelman was the

second in command of the Warsaw Ghetto

Uprising now you may not know this but

the PLO resistance actually idolized the

fighters of the Warsaw

Ghetto and Mar

Adelman was the only surviving leader of

the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising he escaped

under the sewers and joined the Polish

resistance against the Nazis and after

the war he became a

cardiologist and was always a very

principled um stand for justice

he stood against the Communist

government's suppression of the labor

movement and he was a lifelong supporter

of Palestinian resistance and rights he

criticized them for the anti- civilian

terrorism but he actually said that they

are the ghetto fighters of

today so we're not the ones who should

say how do we separate the two they

should explain why the two should be

conflated that's my point of view

[Applause]

so I you listening to

to

to this resurfacing of of other ways of

relating to to Judaism I think this is

going on in many quarters and this is

one of the things that I find most

hopeful about this generational shift

that's going on is that you know when I

got involved in um in in Palestinian

solidarity activism in the 90s during

you know the first intifada um it was it

was like those groups of 10 people it

was and it was it was Jews against the

occupation then it was Jews against

aarid but it was it was only an

oppositional it was only oppositional

and I think that we have to continue to

oppose

genocide but we also have a right to be

Jewish in our own ways and that is the

biggest thing that I see shifting in

these new um this intergenerational

shift is that it's it's not apologetic

it's not just

oppositional it's confident in its

identity and part of the confidence

comes from

relinking with the many ways of being

Jewish that predates the creation of the

state of Israel you know one of the

things that I

explore in in in in doppelganger which

Gabor was very kindly um exciting you

know it has to do with the this

exploration of the many different ways

of being Jewish and the way Zionism kind

of ended the conversation but

specifically the way the Holocaust ended

the conversation because as Gabor is

saying many of the people who who

believed in Liberation through a

socialist Utopia um who or the labor

Bond who believed in protecting Jewish

culture within a workingclass movement

they were destroyed in the in the

Holocaust or in in Stalin's camps um and

so it was Zionism won by default it's

not like it won the argument and people

were like yeah that is that that that's

that's actually how to keep Jews safe

it's that the whole field of debate was

wiped out by by different kinds of

genocide and so it was in response to

the horrors of the Nazi

Holocaust that political zionists were

able to claim in this very pessimistic

way um that I think is you know

rightfully understood as a kind of judeo

pessimism that the only thing you can do

in the face of Jew hatred which is

presented as totally outside of history

and primordial and just a pure evil

force that you can't understand in

connection to any other force is just

put a gun to its head and force it into

submission right and build the wall WS

that we saw in the film you know so

struck by Simone describing going to

Bethlehem just surrounded by walls and

what what the Israeli government is now

is now trying to do is exponentially

increasing precisely the model that

failed on October the 7th right many

more walls a buffer zone in Gaza um you

know just just a an like it's doubling

down is not enough just an exponential

increase of the idea of a fortress state

that has completely failed and will not

make anyone safe but what I want to come

down come back to is this

um this pessimistic idea that the

Holocaust proves that that is the only

way to keep Jews

safe I think it's I think it is an

answer to the wrong

question the real question is how did

the Nazis rise in the first place yeah

because once fascism gets its hooks in

and it's making some real progress

nobody's safe nobody is

safe once that force is Unleashed nobody

is safe so we have to figure out how we

fight them and we fight them together

right and every history of far right

Victory is also a history of left-wing

and Progressive splintering and Division

and successful pitting of working

classes against one another often using

race and ethnicity so you know Gabor was

talking about the dismemberment and the

retraumatization so what would it mean

to remember right to put ourselves back

together and I don't think we do it just

as Jews I think we do it in solidarity

with everybody who is othered and we

stop exceptional liing our story right

know when when when Simone was talking I

was just remembering this remarkable

quote and I'll just share this from my

friend Molly Krab Apple who's been who's

writing a book about the labor Bond she

just recently translated this quote from

Hinrich ER she taught herself Yiddish to

write this book who was leader of the

Bund in Poland in

1933 and he said one of our greatest

sins in the eyes of the Jewish Bourgeois

has been that in the course of the 35

years of our existence as a party we

have not ceased to defend the simple

idea that we Jews are not chosen people

neither in the positive nor in the

negative sense but a people just like

any other nation and that even through

our history and our social economic

circumstances of our lives are unique

the same rules apply to us that regulate

the lives of all other nations in the

world I think that might be how we get

free thank you um yeah Simone did you

want to make a comment or should we go

to questions we can go to questions okay

sorry to intervene there um yeah so we I

think have two

people yeah uh who are going to to help

with moderation I don't know if you want

to since you have both have mics just

say your names and then uh yeah we'll

take the questions I'm Sasha and I'm Ria

but um I think we already have our first

question ready

um okay sounds

good hello my name is Omar I'm here with

my younger brother we are

both uh Mexican and

Palestinian my grandfather was born in

Gaza in the

1920s that is the only preface I'll I'll

give um I'd like to

say Gabor you're a

champion uh you are very a humble man

but I generally think you're a champion

um and behind uh a champion there's

always a very strong woman carrying that

champion so I would like to thank you

and your

wife I would personally like to extend

the thank you to your daughter Hannah to

Aaron and Daniel for their great work

and you are my hero gab to be honest and

I've been reading so many of your books

and you have pursued I have pursued

um such a wonderful path towards

enlightening myself

with uh a lot of your wisdom uh I would

my main question I'll get to the I'll

get to it

um is how would you connect your your

previous statement or

rather a phrase that you were told that

Palestinian children do not experience

PTSD because the trauma is never

posted and connecting that to the inter

generational trauma that has been

experienced on this indigenous

land thank

[Applause]

you in

2005 there was this uh article in the

world Journal of

Psychiatry about war trauma around the

world and the impact of War trauma on

children and um

the highest percentages of

trauma were in Gaza and

Palestine children having

nightmares children weding their

beds children acting

aggressively children having behavior

issues that was in

2005

and since then there's been a series of

massacres of Palestinians especially in

Gaza but of course ongoing in the West

Bank as

well the one of the founders of Hamas

who was subsequently assassinated by the

Israelis was a

pediatrician who was 8 years old in

1956 when he watched his uncle being

killed during a mass execution of

Palestinian boys and men by the Israeli

Army

[Music]

unarmed and he said they planted hatred

in my

heart since 2005 it's only got a lot

worse and I don't have to tell you

what's going on right

now now

the the young men who streamed into

Israel and by the

way humam must today or yesterday give

an explanation of why they did what they

did without

justifying the killings of

civilians but their rationale wasn't to

go out there and kill a whole lot of

Jews their intention was to seize

hostages to to um exchange for their

prisoners I don't say they had the right

to to to seize

civilians to strike a blow against the

Israeli Army which they did

brilliantly and to wake the world up

which has been ignoring their plight for

all these

decades and Saud Arabia was about to

sign a sweetheart deal with Israel that

once more bypassed the

Palestinians so I'd say as political

aims there was very legitimate

aims but the the young men who streamed

into Israel that day who were they they

were those traumatized children grown

up are we surprised that some of them

might have committed some

crimes not to justify anything but if we

want to understand something now what do

we expect to happen in this

generation that's witnessing there's

30,000 18 thou the last time I saw the

figures there was something like 18,000

or 20,000 orphans in

Gaza and there and when you look at that

study in

2005 it had to do with watching their

parents being beaten in the hum

ated themselves being

beaten bombings killings

insecurity well this is happening on an

exponential scale right

now what can do what do we have to look

forward to in terms of

traumatization it's going to be

horrendous

and

traumatized

people are more likely

to and especially if they trauma I mean

just for a

moment imagine what Jews would be

feeling if the whole world denies the

Holocaust who said this never

happened or if it did happen it was your

own damn fault

which is pretty much what the official

media you know singing the Israeli

chorus is telling the

Palestinians now Jews still haven't

healed the trauma of the Holocaust you

see that coming up in their response to

what's happening in

Palestine you know more Jews have been

killed in one day than every anytime

since the Holocaust as if those people

were killed because they were Jewish as

somebody said if they had been Elephants

or dinosaurs or Dutch or English but

doing what the Israelites did to the

Palestinians they would have been killed

nothing to do with being Jewish but in

the traumatized mind those distinctions

don't exist that the past completely

defines the

present what kind of present are these

Palestinian kids are going to have

Israel knows that very very well and

that's why they're think think of

getting rid of all of them from Gaza if

they could they would if they don't it's

only because the world won't let

them 52% of Israelis right now believe

that Gaza should be settled by Jews

again and those 21 Israeli soldiers that

died dead yesterday now me mentioned it

what Israel is doing now is building a

buffer zone between Gaza and Israel and

they were what they're doing is

demolishing a building yesterday hasn't

if they if they haven't bombed enough

buildings into

Oblivion yesterday they were demolishing

a building and some Hamas Fighters shot

at them and they were blown up by their

own

explosives so Israel know this very well

so Israel may think it can get away by

building a buffer zone by expelling the

Palestinians but those Palestinians that

that survive they'll be severely

traumatized

and for reasons we can understand

possibly very much driven towards hatred

again and my own

surprise and maybe Naomi as well and and

and and um

um what's your name Simone

sorry I'm getting old uh

Simons is

not that some Palestinians would hate us

but how many of them don't hate us at

all that's the big surprise but the

future doesn't look good for mental

health for physical health or for

politics that's how I see

it uh Simone or

now

um you both are going to wait till next

okay um could we actually do two

questions and then we'll we'll get some

responses just uh get more

people hi thank you for the talk and

thank you for the movie uh I guess my

question kind of centers around the

dialogues we have moving forward a lot

of the conflict leading up to now and

especially in the past 100 and so days

has been framed in the negative sense

we're uh critiquing the Israeli

government we're critiquing the iof

moving forward whether it's to heal or

to educate ourselves how ort it is it to

paint to look at the positive sense in

the way the movie did and kind of Center

it around the Palestinian people one of

the lines that really is uh I point in

for the movie was the land without a

people without a land for a land for a

land without a people and how when you

kind of talk about the culture talk

about the history of the Palestinian

people you show that before 1948 it was

rich and vibrant so in that sense moving

forward talking about how we can whether

it's educating ourselves people

educating others how important is it to

Center the Palestinian people and

culture in that dialogue okay and second

question

um I um hate to pose a what is to be

done in this sort of situation but can

we can we actually get a woman or

someone who's not male identified I'm

not sure what your identity is no sure

fair enough I I'll happily pass the mic

on I I just want to you know we only

have so many questions um my

apologies um sorry I feel like I just

stole the mic from someone but um so

this is a bit of a weird question for me

because I've always considered myself to

be an anarchist but it's about electoral

politics and so it was kind of directed

at Naomi and Simone um we're facing an

election cycle where in Canada we're

looking at Pierre PV who is essentially

Donald Trump and in the US of course

you're looking at Donald Trump how do we

organize right now when so many of us

are completely disenfranchised with um

the liberal government and with um Biden

in the US over their stance on Israel

Palestine and when the option

potentially plunges us into the white

supremacy that gave rise to the current

conflict so how do we organize right now

around um the rise of the right

converging in this in in this time

[Applause]

thanks will start

off um yeah I'll start um I wanted to

answer the the the first question first

but there's something that kind of

connects uh both of them for me which is

um

I okay I'm going to tell a little story

about the us but it's relevant um so we

just had I'm sure many of you have seen

this

um ridiculous uh theater in Congress

where the heads of the three Elite

universities were uh brought in for

questioning by a white supremacist uh

Senator and um

the woman uh she's a republican uh I

actually don't know if she's a

congresswoman or a senator but whatever

she opened up the hearing by um talking

about um she literally said she she went

after uh Senator Chuck Schumer who had

just spoken out against anti-Semitism

and she um she chastised him for not

being very explicit about what the

source of anti-Semitism

was the

University she literally said that and

she then proceeded to list examples of

courses that teach

anti-Semitism uh I think at Harvard or

at a the list of schools that she was

going after and um they were literally

just classes about uh racism and

colonialism like literally nothing to do

with Jews nothing to do with Israel

Palestine um and it's it's so Stark that

like how

explicitly um these movements are

actually H how clear they are about the

fact that they're using anti-Semitism

and they're using Jews as part of this

wider authoritarian effort to just

dismantle public universities and

private universities the teaching of any

critical history and um and you know

that as as a as a part of this broader

effort to you know attack um all of our

safety and well-being and histories and

communities so that's I mean so I think

for me there's

there's obvious to to answer the first

question I mean it feels essential to me

um you know part of what is very

meaningful to me about this film is that

it's also a tool it's both of it's it's

doing two things at once right it's like

giving people a blueprint for unlearning

and for crossing a bridge

um towards uh a deeper understanding and

critical engagement with reality and

then at the same time it's also about

giving voice to to these people who and

their stories and their histories and

their their lived experiences and and

also trying to put that in the center at

the same time so I feel like doing both

of those things at the same time always

um

feels really essential and and I think

it's also kind of part of

like what it means to try to imagine

something more hopeful for the future is

that it's through telling these

histories through

[Music]

um history art writing culture that

there is something for us to hold on to

that gives us a blueprint for what for

what we want so I'll I'll let you

actually say something about the

Electoral part of

it because I I don't know about that

part

yeah I mean what when I I think there's

there is a need for a lot of different

kinds of stories and I think that

this um this I think the beauty of this

film In This Moment is that is that I

think a lot of people are looking for a

kind of off-ramp from this ideology that

is that that is so um treacherous a um

and and and violent and it's a story

it's a story you know and that that's

the the strength of the film is that it

it shows what it's like to grow up

inside the story and it's shows what

it's like to change the story and and

like I said at the start I think that

that that

is um we need examples of that we need

examples of seeing people change their

mind but then what the next story is

that's a story that that of course is

not just you know diaspora Jews to tell

um and there are many there there's the

story that we're going to tell here

there's the story that they're going to

tell there from The River To The Sea um

I think that we can be clear about

standing for principles um

and you know one thing I found myself

thinking about is you know coming back

to the the first question about trauma I

mean that that that is that is going to

reverberate through the generations it

doesn't get magicked away you know there

isn't a fix there isn't a solution um

but what we do know is that there are

examples of tremendous horrror

producing

change

and the from the fires of of the

Holocaust there were there was a fork in

the road in that moment right there was

the never again for anyone right there

was the horror of we the world let this

happened and out of that horror was born

the entire architecture of international

humanitarian law that Israel is

violating so systematically before our

eyes including the 1948 Geneva

Convention

1948 the same year as the state of

Israel was created by the same

institution that passed the universal

declaration for human rights in 1948

also so all of these

key these key commitments except there

was an asterisk next to them they said

except for we're just going to create

this one ethnostate over here um because

we're going to exceptional eyesee this

particular form of hatred and we're

going to pass the mantle of whiteness to

the Jews who get to do settler

colonialism as a twisted form of

reparations for genocide um so no you

actually have to choose it turns out you

have to go all in you have to go all in

for the universal principles of equality

and justice and Liberation and we have

one more day folks until we know what

the verdict is in the hke tomorrow is

the last day before we

know whether South Africa's

extraordinary case extraordinary for all

the historical reasons of thinking about

the fact that it was South Africa

bringing the case um itself a product of

an incredible Liberation movement

um

and I don't know what's going to happen

Friday morning when we wake up the

decision will already be

made but it's going to be real I know

it's going to be a really important day

for all of us to decide what principles

we want to govern our

relationships uh we don't have that much

control over how our relationships are

going to be cont are going to what's

going to happen there but we have some

control over how we're going to behave

here how we're going to treat each other

here and it's a dialect IC right the the

argument for Zionism is that Jews can't

be safe here they need the Fortress to

dat so if we have uh left movements that

don't take anti-Semitism seriously if we

aren't fighting anti-Semitism here and

we're sort of off that we're offloading

it to the Sia and saying okay this is

the one ISM we don't have to care about

that's a gift to them because actually

it feeds Zionism we have to have a model

where everybody is safe right we have to

build those bridges between our

Liberation movements at least here and

that's part of how we fight the farri

you know I this is the hardest election

of my lifetime in order to to provide

this advice I will not sit here and say

it doesn't matter it can always get

worse I'm sorry that's part of the moral

of the story okay I'm going to quote my

late friend Howard Zin um who in another

tough election when both the Democrats

and the Republicans supported a horrific

War in Iraq and Afghanistan after

9/11 he

said think about it for the 2 minutes

you're in the voting booth and the rest

of the time build the movements that we

need um don't get too hung up about it

it's probably going to be obvious when

it comes down to it that's that decision

in the voting booth is not the work of

building the counterpower to Fascism

that's what we have to do and then we're

all going to have to make our decisions

in the voting booth and let it take the

two that it takes to vote but let's not

confuse that for the politics that we

need to build and I do

yeah

okay

so I think on that note uh before we all

get kicked out of here uh we got to end

it um and uh yeah I have a couple words

but yeah did you want to speak for a

second can we get a giant round of

Applause for everyone

[Applause]

here all right I'm going to take a photo

of the

[Applause]

standing the reason the reason I'm

taking a photo of the standing Applause

is because those who are not with us uh

today are the remarkable filmmakers that

made the story possible so I just wanted

us to acknowledge the incredible work of

Aaron axelman who is just a force of

nature in every possible way who will be

here at some of the subsequent hearings

sorry

hearings Everything feels like a

tribunal um and also uh Sam um ersson

ersson am I butchering his name uh

Daniel chelen Nadia saah and so many

others who are responsible of this film

this is a 7year production it took a

very very very long time what you're

seeing is a very abbreviated and yet

extremely impactful provocative and

Powerful distillation of a remarkable

life's work for every single member of

this community um as a non-jew I hereby

say that I am humbled to be in your

presence to be in solidarity with you I

know that these are extremely difficult

times as they are for Palestinians but

also for Jews and to be able to say what

you say today tomorrow the coming months

and the years in the future it's

landmark and for many of us who are here

listening to a lot of this stuff for the

first time these SE are eye openening

moments of rapture and from moments of

rapture comes growth and I thank you for

contributing to not only sewing the

seeds but also watering the soil thank

you all for coming thank you for being

here and uh just to take Naomi's words

seriously let's uh list a few of the

organizations that youall can get

involved with if you aren't already

there is of course the Palestinian youth

movement who are leading us right now in

so many

ways there's samyun doing really great

work in this

city I've really also got a plug uh

independent Jewish voices which we do

have a table outside and then we're

there with uh students for justice in

Palestine so make sure to talk with them

as well uh and uh yeah I don't know if

there's any final words from you folks

before we all get turfed but but just

one word I haven't acknowledged um

Simone

um my own Awakening happened a few years

before being a few years older than she

is in

1967 when up to that point I was sort of

still in the Zionist um Camp although I

was getting a foot out of it and then

the Vietnam War happened which woke my

eyes up to the reality of

this

Society but when the war broke out I

still sort of sighted with poor Israel

surrounded by all these enemies and all

this

stuff then I began to notice something

that the same press that cheered on and

lied about through the teeth every day

about the mass murder of Vietnamese by

the Americans was so supportive of

Israel and I thought what's going on

here so then I did the research about

that War and who started it and what led

up to it and what was the background

that was my Awakening so in October of

67 I wrote an article for the student

newspaper at UBC about the war who

started it and that Israel occupied

territories and I implied that they're

never going to give it

back I'm still waiting to be wrong on

that one

but there weren't too many I'm not

trying to paint myself as a Pioneer here

because long before I was born there was

Jewish voices opposing Zionism but I was

in a

tradition but it was pretty isolating

and

isolated and to see now this whole

movement that you're a part of and that

your movie represents

and

the impact that you're

having and that there's a whole new

generation now

that one could imagine would someday

happen but see it actually taking place

The

Awakening that's

happening it's still in the early stages

but it's so much more advanced so I just

want

to extend to you my deep appreciation

for your own Awakening and for your

courage and standing by it and I know

it's cost

you it costs all of us but even today it

cost you so here you are with this film

and touring throughout North America and

I don't even know that when you made the

film you could even imagine the horrors

that are taking place right now but what

a there's no better time for your

message to

be put in front of the public is right

now so really my deep acknowledgement to

you

Simone thank

[Applause]

you okay and uh with that uh we'll just

have another round of applause for our

guests here and good night

ofuse