ICP.Talks: Trustless Multichain bringing ETH & BTC together | Ep. 9
Summary
TLDRIn this engaging conversation, Kyle Langum interviews Ashling Connelly, a researcher at Definity leading multi-chain efforts. Ashling shares insights on the evolution of the blockchain industry, particularly focusing on the multi-chain narrative at ETH Denver. She discusses the importance of standardization, the potential of Bitcoin integration, and the innovative projects being developed on the Internet Computer platform. The discussion highlights the maturity and vibrancy of the industry, showcasing the shift from mere replication of traditional systems to creating unique, blockchain-native solutions.
Takeaways
- 🌟 The Ethereum Denver conference highlights the growing importance of multi-chain narratives and the increasing interest in Bitcoin integration within the blockchain community.
- 💡 Ashling's mission at the conference was to understand the current multi-chain narrative and explain the efforts and achievements of Definity in this space.
- 🚀 The Internet Computer's integration with Bitcoin and Ethereum allows for trustless interactions, marking a significant step forward in cross-chain communication.
- 📈 The event showcased a maturity in the blockchain industry, with projects moving beyond mere token swapping to developing real-world applications and innovative use cases.
- 🤝 There was a notable shift towards collaboration and standardization, with projects seeking to work together and build on each other's successes.
- 🌐 The community vibe at the conference was dynamic and vibrant, reflecting a renewed optimism and energy in the blockchain space.
- 💬 Ashling's experience at the conference emphasized the value of face-to-face interactions and the importance of community building in the growth of the industry.
- 📊 The discussion around threshold signatures and verifiable randomness highlighted the technical advancements and potential applications in secure and decentralized communication.
- 🏆 Projects like dmail demonstrated the potential for blockchain applications to scale and retain users, showing the viability of web3 businesses.
- 🔍 The conference served as a platform for showcasing the progress made during the industry's recent challenging times, with many projects ready to release new advancements.
Q & A
What is the main focus of the conversation between Kyle and Ashling?
-The main focus of the conversation is the experiences and insights gained during the e Denver event, particularly around the multi-chain narrative and the developments in the blockchain industry.
How does Ashling feel about the atmosphere at e Denver?
-Ashling feels that the vibes at e Denver are awesome, with a lot of exciting things happening, and appreciates the community and business-oriented atmosphere.
What is Ashling's role at the e Denver event?
-Ashling is a researcher at Definity, leading multi-chain efforts, and her role at the event is to share insights on the multi-chain narrative, educate people on how their technology works, and discuss the trustless and decentralized aspects of their project.
What was the first event Ashling attended at e Denver?
-The first event Ashling attended was an event organized by ICP Hubs at the University of Colorado and Denver, where she gave a talk on threshold signatures and their significance in the context of the Internet Computer (IC).
How does Ashling describe the Bitcoin integration on the Internet Computer?
-Ashling describes the Bitcoin integration as trustless, battle-tested, and secure, allowing for read and write operations with Bitcoin and Ethereum, and providing a non-custodial solution for users to interact with the Bitcoin ledger.
What does Ashling find surprising about the interest in multi-chain at e Denver?
-Ashling finds it surprising that there is a lot of interest in the multi-chain narrative, with many people looking for tools and infrastructure to build on the Internet Computer and integrate with Bitcoin and Ethereum.
What is the significance of the CK BTC project for Definity?
-CK BTC is the fastest-growing synthetic Bitcoin on the Definity platform, demonstrating the momentum and growth of the project, as well as its position as a leader in the multi-chain space.
How does Ashling perceive the evolution of the blockchain industry over the past two years?
-Ashling perceives the industry as maturing and evolving from a focus on decentralization and replication to building real products and services that leverage the unique properties of blockchain technology, such as cross-chain integration and decentralized privacy tools.
What are some of the key themes Ashling noticed at e Denver?
-Some key themes Ashling noticed include multi-chain integration, chain abstraction, account abstraction, and the increasing interest in Bitcoin and its potential for innovation and cross-pollination with the Ethereum ecosystem.
What does Ashling find particularly interesting about the future of blockchain technology?
-Ashling finds it particularly interesting to think about how blockchain technology will integrate into everyday life, such as using it for payments, computation, and digital assets, and how it will change the way we interact with various services and systems.
Outlines
🌟 Introduction and Experiences at ETH Denver
The speakers, Kyle Langum and Ashling Connelly, discuss their experiences at ETH Denver, noting the exhaustion from the event and the dry air. They touch on the significant difference from previous years, with a focus on multi-chain efforts and the crypto world's presence in Denver. Ashling shares her role as a researcher at Definity, leading multi-chain efforts, and her mission to understand and explain the current multi-chain narrative.
📚 Ashling's Research and Talks on Multi-Chain
Ashling delves into her research and the talks she gave at ETH Denver, focusing on multi-chain technology, chain key, and the integration of Bitcoin and Ethereum with the Internet Computer. She discusses the importance of education in the field and the need to understand the infrastructure and features like threshold signatures, verifiable randomness, and the integration with other chains.
🤝 Engaging with the Community and Side Events
The conversation shifts to the various side events and the value of community engagement at ETH Denver. Ashling and Kyle discuss the significance of these events in driving the industry forward, with Ashling sharing her experiences at ICP Hubs and her interactions with developers and students. They also touch on the importance of standardization and the potential for cross-chain collaboration.
💡 Insights from Bitcoin Renaissance and ETH Denver
Ashling shares her insights from Bitcoin Renaissance and the main ETH Denver event, highlighting the focus on L2s, EVMs, and the Bitcoin economy. She discusses the energy and innovation in the Bitcoin community and the headstart that projects on the Internet Computer have in integrating with Bitcoin. The conversation also covers the potential for growth and the excitement around Bitcoin's future in the industry.
🌐 The Future of Blockchain in Everyday Life
The speakers ponder the future of blockchain technology in everyday life, discussing its potential integration into daily activities like payments, communication, and governance. They explore the idea of a digital town and the role of blockchain in voting and community decisions. The conversation emphasizes the importance of interoperability and the user experience in driving blockchain adoption.
🚀 Growth and Maturity of the Crypto Industry
Ashling and Kyle reflect on the growth and maturity of the crypto industry, noting the shift from short-term trends to long-term vision and the emergence of serious businesses. They discuss the importance of community and collaboration in building a successful ecosystem, the rise of multi-chain solutions, and the industry's move towards modular infrastructure.
🤝 Networking and Learning at ETH Denver
The speakers share their experiences of networking at ETH Denver, highlighting the value of face-to-face interactions and the opportunities to learn from others in the industry. They discuss the welcoming nature of the community and the strategic partnerships formed, as well as the recognition of the Internet Computer's capabilities and the interest from other projects.
🌐 The Ethereum Ecosystem and Multi-Chain Integration
Ashling talks about the Ethereum ecosystem's openness to the Internet Computer and the interest in multi-chain integration. She discusses the importance of community vibes and the collaborative spirit at ETH Denver, as well as the trend towards modular tech stacks and the move away from monolithic infrastructure. The conversation also touches on the potential for AI and blockchain integration.
📈 The Evolution of Blockchain Beyond Web 2
The speakers discuss the evolution of blockchain technology beyond simply replicating Web 2 services, emphasizing the unique features and use cases that blockchain offers. They talk about the industry's shift in focus from decentralization as the sole value proposition to a more nuanced understanding of when and how to use blockchain technology effectively.
🎉 Highlights and Takeaways from ETH Denver
In the concluding segment, Ashling and Kyle share their personal highlights from ETH Denver, from insightful conversations to the validation of their work in the industry. They reflect on the maturity of the blockchain industry and its potential to reshape everyday life, expressing excitement for the future and the possibilities that lie ahead.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡multi-chain
💡Chapstick
💡hydration
💡threshold signatures
💡developer experience
💡Bitcoin Renaissance
💡standardization
💡gasless transactions
💡community vibe
💡monolithic infrastructure
💡web3
Highlights
Ashling Connelly, a researcher at Definity, discusses her focus on multi-chain efforts and the importance of educating people about the trustless and decentralized nature of the technology.
The Internet Computer's original goal was to decentralize the web, and with the integration of Bitcoin and Ethereum, it now allows for trustless communication with these chains.
Ashling's talk at the University of Colorado and Denver on threshold signatures and verifiable randomness was well-received, showcasing the industry's growing understanding of cryptography.
The Ethereum community is showing interest in the multi-chain narrative, with a focus on chain abstraction and account abstraction.
Bitcoin is gaining attention in the multi-chain space, with projects like CK BTC demonstrating the potential for synthetic Bitcoin and gasless transactions.
The importance of standardization in the blockchain industry was emphasized, with discussions on how to advise the building of compatible systems across different chains.
The growth of the dmail application on the Internet Computer, reaching 8 million unique users and 1.5 million monthly active users, highlights the potential for real-world impact.
The Ethereum community's welcoming approach to new projects and technologies, including the Internet Computer, fosters collaboration and innovation.
The shift in the blockchain industry from focusing solely on decentralization to embracing a variety of blockchain features that Web 2 cannot offer.
The potential for Bitcoin to serve as a long-lasting database, as demonstrated by Ashling inscribing her wedding anniversary into Bitcoin.
The emergence of decentralized AI and the potential for blockchain to revolutionize the AI industry by offering new innovative uses of the technology.
The importance of face-to-face interactions in the digital age, as exemplified by the value of meeting people from the blockchain community in person.
The maturity of the blockchain industry, with projects focusing on real-world use cases and building products that cannot be created on traditional web platforms.
The potential for Bitcoin to solve inheritance problems by automatically passing down wealth through smart contracts.
The excitement and energy at Eth Denver, with a focus on real innovation and a vibrant community of builders and thinkers.
The impact of the Internet Computer project and the direction it's heading, with a strong sense of community and a focus on practical applications.
Transcripts
I'm Kyle langum and I'm joined with
ashin Connelly how you doing Ashling
good to be here with you oh I'm I'm
exhausted we're a couple days into to
eat Denver you're got to be more
exhausted you've been here uh the whole
week longer than a week uh how you
feeling I have my Chapstick like
permanently in my hand I have my water
I'm like trying to hydrate as much as
possible I saw some tips on Twitter last
week before coming and I was like why do
they care so much about ChapStick and
now I realize I forgot my Chapstick
yesterday my lips are really chapped I
don't think I'm going to recover the air
here is really dry but the Vibes are
awesome yeah are you feeling the same
way for sure I think it's quite a bit of
a difference this year compared to yeah
a few of the events last year it's been
nice to see it so now so uh we're going
to recap I guess in this space we're
just going to have a conversation try to
basically catch everyone up on what's
going on at e Denver there's a lot of
exciting things going on so we're
probably going to jump topic to topic to
topic um but I think that's probably the
best place to start it's just uh this
year it seems like eth Denver is
happening there's not just eth Denver
itself but there's so many side events
um you know Bitcoin are showed up here
as well there's a lot going on like the
crypto world is in Denver right now um
are you catching the same thing yeah for
sure I think I mean always with these
events the thing that I've learned is
that the side events are where the real
action is shouldn't say say that I mean
of course but uh yeah it's uh like
jumping around town to all these
different events and then different
things in the evening all day all night
it's super cool like it's really cool to
see what's going on yeah yeah well just
starting off so you gave a talk uh
earlier this week right multi-chain um
focus do you want to kind of like recap
on what uh on in terms of just chain key
technology like give me give me give us
some like information on like where the
talk was held at uh and like what a high
level overview of like what you guys
were uh chatting about so yeah I mean
there's been a few things going on this
week um maybe I should introduce myself
also like this is maybe I don't know if
that's a good place to start yeah let's
start at the start so I'm Ashling um I'm
a researcher at definity and I'm leading
a lot of the multi-chain efforts at the
moment so I think our mission in coming
here at least for me was very much to
hear what is going on in this kind of
multi-chain narrative at the moment and
to also kind of explain to people what
we have been doing in this uh in this
situation so a lot of the kind of things
that I have been going to have been
around that focus and um like maybe just
to kind of recap a little bit our
multi-chain narrative and then we go
into the events sure um like because
maybe it gives some context I think with
the internet computer generally a lot of
the goal originally was to sort of
decentralize the web and I think having
built the infrastructure in the way that
we did and having you know daps that can
be hosted you know 100% on chain front
end back end everything kind of
decentralized and then having this
coupled with features like https alals
that allow you to actually communicate
directly with the internet kind of gives
you the situation where you sort of
realize this decentralized verifiable
web so we had this you know three years
ago now almost when the network launched
so this is great but then uh last year
and this year we kind of focused a lot
on integrating with other chains so with
bit coin and with ethereum so now we can
read and write with Bitcoin and ethereum
in a quite trustless way we'll move on
to other things later this year but yeah
so now we have a lot that we can kind of
talk around the internet very in a nice
decentralized way we can talk to bitcoin
and ethereum in a nice decentralized way
so the question is now a bit like how
can we package all of this together to
make like a super beautiful sort of
developer experience where people can
build dos that kind of cross like all of
the internet all of the block chains
this kind of stuff and so I mean in
trying to think about how to get people
on board with these ideas because it's a
lot of stuff like it's a lot of stuff
and um you know the fact that it's
actually there and usable now is kind of
a new idea to a lot of people and so I
guess for me like a huge part of this is
education so explaining to people what
this is actually how it works where the
ideas came from why it's actually
decentralized why we can make these
claims about trustless why we can make
claims of you know decentralized
communication this kind of stuff and so
one of the first events that I actually
I think the first day that I arrived was
um an event organized by ICP hubs at the
University of Colorado and Denver okay
um where I gave a talk about cheny
cryptography generally basically on the
IC how how do threshold signatures work
why does this give us the kind of
guarantees that we claim why does did
not just give us only signatures but so
much more like all this kind of
verifiable Randomness a lot of the um
yeah like the features like vet Keys
coming up a lot of the Integrations like
talking to bitcoin signing on E signing
on salana maybe later this year this
kind of stuff so that was really for me
the kind of it was a very nice way to
land actually like arriving in Denver
going back to school and like sitting in
a classroom with people and it was super
nice like they were uh it was very
engaged and more than I expected
actually um there were a lot of great
questions and a lot of people asking ah
is this like that and is this like you
know so people actually have a pretty
good understanding of what is going on
in crypto and they kind of start to be
able to reason about what is yeah what
are the similarities and the differences
between different things and I think
this is really the start of like actual
understanding in the industry it's very
cool I think that's probably like that
is how I would describe so far eth
Denver is people having that aha moment
around the internet computer like across
the industry I think we'll probably
touch on some other points I do have a
question do they call you Professor when
you're in the classroom no not Professor
no not Professor someone was joking and
saying like should we call you Ash or
like Ashling or like Dr Connelly and I
was like I don't know you can call me my
dgen names if you know
that what about um so like the the
students were they mostly uh you know
develop
students like actual students at the
college like what was the audience of
the the talk it was mostly developer
focused I think um yeah like they were
students also some of them actually
studying cryptography some of them just
developers that came along for the event
um but yeah it was kind of developer
focused I guess the ones that know more
about infrastructure and things like
this rather than just applications I see
I see cool so that was Tuesday yeah and
then Wednesday uh e Denver the the main
event had an open Jets I'm trying to
even remember back what we did on
Wednesday I think I was flying in um
what were I like were you the party I
can't really remember what we were doing
on
Wednesday I can see on your face that
you don't remember it's been a long week
it's like the days just all kind of blur
into one yeah yeah then uh I know on
Thursday the no on Thursday there was um
yeah there were I met actually a lot of
so yeah I went around to various
different side events on on Wednesday um
I think most mostly there was some stuff
around the chain abstraction and yeah
there some privacy events as well so
these were the ones that I went to a lot
as well also talking about threshold
stuff threshold signatures and how we
can use them nicely and yeah met a lot
of cool people good good I mean it's
definitely chain abstraction is the
chain abstraction or account abstraction
depending on who you're talking those
are like the themes of e Denver this
year um at least it seems like and and
it's kind of funny cuz I feel like every
ation I have with somebody it's like
well this team is going to do this you
know in 6 months and you know it always
comes back around to like well I know
but we're kind of doing that already on
the internet computer like we we have
the eth integration now so uh we're
we're already there um have you found
similar yeah so I mean one of the kind
of nicest surprises for me was I mean
the reaction to this multi-chain
narrative like I was at another event I
think on Thursday um this open
information house it's a super nice
initiative um like you can check them
out on Twitter I guess but uh yeah they
had an event that's actually running
three days and it was super nice and
like the they had really a lot of great
talks and panels but uh I was on a panel
just kind of debating a bit why open why
do we need open information and there I
kind of introduced myself as kind of
somebody working on multi-chain at uh
definity and at the internet computer
and like the response was like yes you
guys are doing this and we were were
like yeah of course like uh how how have
you not seen this um but yeah like they
there was a lot of interest like a
surprising amount of interest um and so
yeah a lot of people are thinking about
building a lot of stuff and kind of
looking for tools and looking for
infrastructure I was like man guys you
are a little bit behind like I mean some
of the projects building on ICP at the
moment kind of already are using these
tools and are like integrating them and
so I think especially around Bitcoin
defy and I mean Bitcoin is getting a lot
of attention as well this is where we
kind of can shine very well and I think
the projects that are building on IC
already have quite a head start and so
it was kind of cool to see uh the
reaction from some of the builders here
like ah we we need to get on this yeah I
I spent Thursday so the main event
started on Thursday but I spent Thursday
at Bitcoin Renaissance uh which was I
know 10 minutes down the street
um they did a phenomenal job uh there's
probably like a thousand bitcoiners
there they're there to talk about l2s
and uh you know EVMS uh that you know
like root stock that talk uh talk with
Bitcoin um and but that the general
thing was there's there's two there was
like two classes of projects there was
those who had been building for like the
last five years right so like the root
stock is a great example Stacks was
there um and they're kind of like
they're trying to their Vibe was very
much like what is our place in this new
like this Bitcoin economy just blew up
in the last four months and they're
trying to figure out okay like how do we
how do we position ourselves because
it's evolved in the last four months it
is evolved more than it had the last
five years um and then you have all the
new players who are coming in and saying
you know we're going to have an evm uh
for Bitcoin in you know a year from now
or here's our three-phase plan you know
to build you know uh like um build on
bitcoin Bob is uh um uh a big project
that's going on and they presented their
three their three-phase plan and and you
get this feeling where like guys the
time is now like yeah Bitcoin is now and
if you're not building now if you're not
deployed now you're missing your window
um so that was really cool to see I ran
into Bob Bley uh and that I I love Bob
uh I make no no uh no no secret of that
and it was really cool to see um like
Bob in his element like he's always been
ICP but he has uh become a huge
technical voice in Bitcoin so just as he
and I are talking it's just person after
person coming up like hey Bob you know
just wanted to like say and and I won't
name drop but there some pretty big
names in Bitcoin that were coming up to
Bob to say thank you um but I I just
kind of felt like yeah I mean we've got
a head start because we had the
integration uh you know definity
definitely had the forward thinking to
do the integration at a time when nobody
was talking about building on bitcoin
for the most part um and I think already
that that shines in the sense that we're
not talking about we're not making a
pivot to bitcoin we've been there for a
year there's already projects that are
deploying um I don't know if uh you know
you definity wasn't there as like a
sponsor or anything so we maybe we
didn't get the chance to kind of
highlight everything that was going on
but there's like CK BTC is um the
fastest growing uh um synthetic Bitcoin
you know whatever that class would be
it's already the seventh largest in uh
cross chain TBL um on defi Lama um you
can see cbtc transactions have like
tripled in the last 30 days uh volume
has tripled like it's just actually no
I'm sorry it's actually it's 600% in the
last three months is um the transaction
so um you can kind of get this feeling
of like yeah we've got the momentum
behind us we're not we're not waiting
for you know for the integration to to
get there and then we'll start building
and you know that stuff like we already
have that momentum going in um and there
were a few people who who kind of know
I'm you know I had my definity shirt on
and there were a few people who were
like you got to explain ICP like I'm a
bitcoiner like i' I've lived in the
stacks world my whole life I keep
hearing ICP can you just kind of give me
like the tldr like why what are you guys
doing that's different so we there's
there's some traction there that that
was really cool to see I felt like a
little celebrity with my definity shirt
on like oh you guys are approaching me
um so anyways yeah theit the Bitcoin uh
um now they may be oversold they were
saying they painted the town orange you
go to the Bitcoin Renaissance and then I
went from there to the main event e
Denver is purple yeah and everything's
purple and I was like yeah there's
there's orders of magnitude more people
more uh um activities going on at the E
Denver uh at the on the ethereum side of
things but it was still it still really
cool to see so um I think uh yeah like
something to note there as well I mean I
don't want to drag it too much in the I
mean sometimes we we drag it too much in
the technical Direction but like
one of the things that I think is truly
special about our Bitcoin integration is
exactly that it has been done for a
while it is a bit battle tested it has
gone through like Security reviews and
like and it you know like it's it's good
like it's good to go there's no
like question marks or like holding your
breath to see what happens because I
think like from Bitcoin friends of mine
I think you know like maybe one of the
reasons why development on bitcoin did
not take off so much is because the
Bitcoin Maxis don't necessarily want
that you know and like um even if they
do want it they also want it to be like
super secure and like uh if you have
Bridges and if you have whatever sort of
protocols that are not necessarily
threshold ised or not necessarily like
super secure cryptographically or
security tested or whatever they're just
not going to touch it like and so yeah I
think this is I mean for me one of the
things that I found whenever I talk to
bitcoin people is that I say like hey
look you can have this in a like
non-custodial way you don't you can get
off your centralized exchanges you don't
have to manage your own Keys even but
like you know you do have this kind of
trustless solution so I mean this I
think is a huge benefit that we have
over others because to build this I mean
it took us a while MH um but yeah it was
this kind of very forward looking thing
so I mean we're quite yeah it's it's a
good time to be here yeah well you like
you mentioned um the and that was one of
the things is as people approach um you
want flexibility right somebody comes up
and they're Maxi and they're like no I
don't want I don't want their I don't
want like a bridge solution like like
don't sell me a bridge solution and you
can flush that out really easily and
then you easily just have the
conversation of like look there's a
Bitcoin node running and if you want to
write directly like if you want to have
a smart contract that writes um that
signs transactions on the Bitcoin Ledger
you know here you go you you can do it
yeah and then you have other people who
are like the security model doesn't
really I don't I'm not so worried about
that I'm more interested in like you
know XYZ like scalability cost yeah yeah
like they have their own thing and
you're like well you know um you've got
CK BTC as a as a decent solution or you
know if you do want to um wait for your
six confirmations on The Ledger you have
the uh Native like we there's
flexibility there for people like it's
kind of nice cuz you feel like you're
not trying to sell them you you can meet
them where they're at as you're talking
to whether it's a Bitcoin or it's any
other person and you're like well you
know what's important to you and
actually our solution um fits in there
pretty well so um I think you know I
don't know I I think the the Bitcoin
side of things here at eat Denver was
was pretty exciting to watch um there's
a there is a lot of innovation going on
there and like incredible amount of
excitement the fact that they got a
thousand bitcoiners to fly out to Denver
um and go to this one day event is
pretty impressive Conference during an
eth conference yeah um um so yeah so it
was uh and and not only that um actually
like um there's a couple prominent
Bitcoin bitcoiners who are at the eth
conference um you know I know uh munib
Ali was tweeting that he didn't get
quite the warmest welcome um at eth
Denver but there's still it's still
you're starting to see a little bit more
of that like cross-pollination between
the two chains and maybe maybe we're
starting to see the early signs of uh
for sure I mean also I mean okay the eth
people are usually less uh ta than the
Bitcoin people but like a lot of eth
like projects that are based kind of
around the eth ecosystem are also really
asking a lot of questions about Bitcoin
now yeah and because I
mean they have a lot of experience in
building decentralized infrastructure
and applications and it's like well
surely we should be able to do this with
Bitcoin as well like we are the kind of
pioneers in this space so why not um
yeah engage with Bitcoin as well and so
this has also been a super nice um
talking point I think at our booth like
um so yeah we can also like you can do
your eat stuff but you can also now do
your Bitcoin stuff yeah on the IC yeah
and obviously if you're if you've got an
app and you're want extra liquidity
bitcoin's got a trillion dollars in
liquidity if you want you know brand
cach a Bitcoin you know when I talk to
my mom and I say she doesn't know what
ethereum is she doesn't know what crypto
is but if I say Bitcoin she's like oh
yeah actually now I know what you're
talking about and I think that
there's you know entrepreneurs who are
like actually I wouldn't mind tapping
into that brand recognition or that
liquidity or that you know a really
robust user community that Bitcoin has
so so a lot more cross-pollination there
um you had the chance to sit down with
with a few people from the ecosystem at
the booth right yeah I think mostly um
it was cool like it's uh like the
activity at the booth is pretty nice
pretty interesting um a lot of questions
about generally this multi narrative
like so what is CK e what is CK BTC what
does it mean to have gasless
transactions all this kind of stuff so
this is a lot of the uh conversation but
I think yesterday I think one of the
most interesting conversations I had
yesterday was actually with Austin um
one of the ecosystem members father
father father oh gosh now now my the
lips are so dry it's Austin's last name
is too hard to say with dry lips aat
this is
the so this is how I know him but um it
was super nice to talk to him actually
because he's working a lot with um IC
devs I think on
standardization and like when I talk to
let's say friends of mine from the
ethereum ecosystem or generally anyone
who's building kind of new tech stuff
and you try to see like what are the
problems that you face it's always like
a lack of clarity about what to do and
like the thing is like you want to build
fast and you want to build stuff that
you know you know will change but at the
same time you don't want to just build
random randomly so having some sort of
design patterns having some sort of kind
of Frameworks that you know you could
kind of build into so that like at least
some of the moving parts are removed and
so like having some sort of
standardization process like having some
standards for tokens for different types
of apps and like when you start thinking
about this in a cross chain World it
becomes very messy and so I think with
Austin a lot of the conversation was
about standardization and like how can
we advise things to be built so that
like we're all kind of speaking the same
language um so that not everything has
to not everything is built from scratch
basically um not everything is yeah
incompatible with each other um so yeah
like all of this I think is super
interesting and I think he's doing a lot
of work on this so I was super glad to
hear that because it really needs to
happen that's awesome yeah I was able to
have a beer with him last night and he's
I mean he's just uh well I didn't ask
how much we could share of what he's up
to but he's got he's got some plans um
uh that are pretty interesting and I'll
let him tell that story but that that
definitely you know that actually kind
of brings up um I hadn't really realized
this but I walking around the conference
I
like the story The Narrative the um the
the direction that the industry is going
is like so much different than it was
just two years ago and you're absolutely
right it does have this kind of chaotic
feel of like well what is important out
of all of this and what is how should
like you know think about some of these
multi-chain stuff and like how should I
compre like how should I frame this
within my own mental framework because
it's it's not just like I want to be
able to swap tokens back and forth like
people are starting to talk about like
like serious like this more morning I
was talking with uh two guys from two
different companies uh and both
companies are are um working on debit
cards physical debit cards that pay in
stable coin um and just the the you know
just talking with them and they said
actually gas is kind of a problem
because uh you know with a debit card
you want you want certainty in the in
the transaction fees and gas kind of
makes that a little bit more challenging
um so it's just kind of interesting here
and like I was like oh yeah actually I
never thought about I always think of
our gas lessness as like a developer
like a or a user experience um but
there's actually business uh
implications as well so there's all this
weird thinking about like hey how how
should we think in this new paradigm of
uh you know multi-chain for me this is
like super interesting like this is my
favorite part where you really get me
like on fire because like and it's not
so much talked about because it's hard
like it's hard to think it's a bit more
futur looking this sort of thing like
you know know I think a lot of the
conversations maybe this goes a bit off
Top This is a bit of a tangential
conversation now but I think a lot of
the topics that people discuss are very
kind of shortterm it's like we're
building now we're trying to like do
stuff it's like let's just play around
see how it goes see what catches let's
see what actually makes money see what
pumps we follow this we follow that we
ditch this we move on whatever like you
know this kind of
stuff um and like I think this is really
most of the narrative at the moment and
like there's kind of these short-term
trends that kind of um come and go some
of them stick like now for example pass
Keys is one everyone starts to realize
that pass Keys is like a hot thing right
now an NPC wallets and it's like okay
this one will probably stick around but
like everyone right now is talking about
NPC and pasis this is one thing but like
for me these are the things like okay
we've been doing this all along this is
like a normal part of the tech stack for
us but for me like the interesting thing
is like yeah when this thing actually
takes off like when the industry is
because it's clear it's going to now
like I think 2015 if you still had a
question mark over whether the industry
would survive or not is okay but like
it's 20 it's 10 years later now
basically and it's like the industry is
here like it's staying so like how is
the world going to look when we're all
using blockchains so and what does this
mean like you think about your
day-to-day life I get up in the morning
I make a c coffee I take a shower I go
on the train to work and you know I I
pay for yeah my stuff in the grocery
store I use my laptop at my desk I use
this and and it's like okay so where is
blockchain going to fit in all of this
and so like blockchain does payments it
does computation it does whatever so
like is my debit card exactly this thing
like is my debit card going to like come
from my bank account or from my crypto
account or where is this going to be
settled who's going to pay G ask like
what are the transaction fees going to
be like what is the speed going to be
like how would you like it to look all
this kind of stuff and the same when I
open my laptop I normally Google this
and that and I go on Gmail and I go like
I look at my centralized uh stuff I chat
on WhatsApp and I use slack and it's
like is this going to be the case like
will I use open chat or will I use
something else and um yeah how is it
going to be in the future in like
daytoday life I need to vote for
government stuff I need to vote for my
local football team how they should do
whatever you know like um I need to
participate in society how is this going
to be am I going to be a member of dows
that are not just some weird DG playing
with nfts and whatever like is my town
going to be a little da of its own that
makes decisions and yeah so I think for
me this is the like super interesting
conversation that's had only by a few
people like there are some events where
they really dig into these things here M
and like let's say at other like other
uh conferences like there's always one
or two events where you find these what
I think are like the real conversations
it's like okay we're going to build a
world
where I mean we want control over I mean
at first it was control over your
financials and then it was control over
your digital assets and now it's control
over your whole digital stuff which is
very much part of your day-to-day life
so how can we integrate those things and
how can we get around the annoying stuff
about crypto like gas or like um this
kind of lack of interoperability between
all the stuff and yeah so for me this is
the like yeah real this is real talk
yeah I you know like you mentioned like
the the towns the Dow towns like last
night uh we were at a party and uh I met
I'm trying to remember the city that
they're from but there it was guys from
City da um so City da is a well-known
Dow that has bought land in I think it's
Wyoming and um the Dow itself owns that
land and they mentioned that and I said
oh you know so I started talking about
that part of City da that I knew and
they said oh no no no no this is a
different site and a different like a
subsidiary Dow and it was just like that
moment of like oh this is spreading like
like and but you kind of hear that um
you know I mentioned the debit card you
know they were already talking about
like look they we're running a like
they're talking about running a business
and they're like it's not like it's not
that we go to the merchants and we say
hey instead of paying Visa 2 and a half%
you can pay us 1% I said no the the the
business model is you have to get the
users the merchants want whatever the
users have exactly and you have to get
somebody to swap out their credit card
in their wallet or their purse you have
to have them take out their credit card
and then put this debit card in the
place and they said that's a hard
problem but crypto you know cry crypto
can solve that we can do Point systems
you know like your credit card points we
can do that in a much better way we can
like incorporate nfts into this like we
can actually make this like a better
user experience for the users that's how
we're going to on board the users and
then the merchants will follow you know
the merchants will go wherever the users
are and you get the sense that you're
like oh we're actually going from that
messar around stage to the like actual
people building real companies that are
actually thinking about it from like a
market penetration perspective uh and so
it's just kind of really cool to to to
watch and and and see them explore you
see I mean even just maybe I always kind
of end up with you maybe I shouldn't be
saying this I love that you look over at
like the people who might be able to say
hey let's cut the mics off no but even
the people you see like I mean there are
people that you you've known from this
scene for years like and you see them
maturing and them growing up and them
being the sort of leaders of the field
now or of the industry basically and
actually forming the companies and
asking the hard questions and doing the
hard work that actually brings this
stuff to reality rather than just this
kind of playing around like testing this
and that and and like actually creating
a vision and building towards it and
it's really cool to see like that people
who started off as like these DJ crypto
kids now become the kind of serious
investors like um maybe it's uh silly to
say this but it's cool to see it
maturing for for sure oh yeah I had I
had a chance to interview um Dan from
dmail well I guess meet meet Dan from
dmail the CEO of um of dmail but also
chance to kind of interview him at the
booth and and get some content that way
um and he said a few things that I was
like just to like back up your point of
like that app uh so they built I mean
they they there's a bunch of story lines
there like they built on the internet
computer and then expanded um
multi-chain and that allowed them to to
scale their user base uh incredibly um
he mentioned a couple stats it was 8
million they've had 8 million unique
users uh and they've been only around
for two and a half years he said and 1
and a half million of them are monthly
active users and so you're like that's
pretty good retention you know 8 million
people have signed up one and a half
million are still using the app on a
routine basis um and then also those
kind of numbers like one and a half
million uh um users I'm like you've got
to be one of the biggest apps in crypto
he said yeah we're all we're often we're
all the time in the top 10 of dap radar
but he said there are some apps that are
getting you know getting better better
metrics of that but um he uh he it was
just a fun conversation to kind of like
hear how their business evolved to
multi-chain and how that basically just
unlocked all these communities and and
stuff and um and like what that's really
like meant for them and um I don't know
I was just really blown away he he uh I
can't remember I don't think he said
this on air but he jokingly was like you
know I I you guys don't ever like give
some stats on on dmail but I think we
actually probably have the most
canisters of of any
on the IC and cuz we always give open
chat the credit of that or hotnot we're
always talking about how much Cycles
they're burning and I was like oh you
know actually I probably should start
pulling up some stats I I don't think
I've ever analyzed Dil at all charts guy
I know well you have some work to do
yeah yeah well that's the problem you go
back home from this you're all energized
and then like I got to got to look at
the data um but yeah so it's it's just
kind of cool to see and that's I mean
again like dmail like they're just
they're not out to um you know they're
out to build an application they they've
got uh like this awesome like two-year
Vision in terms of like monetization and
target audience that they're looking at
they want to get into the Enterprise
World um like they really are clear of
like the value they bring to their users
it's not a d gen app like it's not like
they're just air they're airdrop farming
and and doing those like quick growth
hacks they're offering a product that
has a specific use case in a value
proposition and that's their like that's
how they're going about it so you get
this feeling of you're like okay this is
like you're serious yeah yeah growing up
yeah yeah just yeah that maturity which
is which is awesome so um in terms of
like e Denver at the main event any
other things kind of stand out and uh I
think like uh I hate to say it and I got
a bit criticized for saying this too
much but like it's the
Vibes I mean of course there's more than
the Vibes like we talk about the
industry maturing and people becoming
you know like a serious businessmen now
and whatever but like it really is this
nice Community Vibe like where people
come together there's like you know like
all the talks and all the boots and all
the events and all the parties and all
the chill out spaces and all the
hackathons and all the prizes and all
the merch and all the stuff and it's
just like I don't know for me this is
like the real highlight just seeing like
who's around who's building stuff people
are open like and it's really nice and I
think um like for me in particular being
here and trying to think how can
we like we have a lot to offer like we
talk you know we always talk about like
the features that we have to offer other
ecosystems and different parts of the
industry but for me it's super nice to
see like what can we take like I mean
this is a relationship we're trying to
build like it's a give and take
relationship it's not like you know just
pushing your own stuff on other people
and you know rejecting everything that
they have it's like okay what is going
on in your community and like
seeing how people build together how
ideas are formed like how people
actually then kind of productize and
Market things and like seeing the kind
of full flow this for me is super
interesting to see here like seeing yeah
just I mean there are small like um
patterns let's say that have emerged in
the eat ecosystem over the past well
almost 10 years about how and again it's
a bit of about standardization building
stuff like having this composability and
you know having kind of support and like
having really strong Community like
close close Community Vibes this is I
think what really helped it getting
going and it's like if we want to engage
in this world we need to take this like
we need to be part of this and like we
need to yeah like facilitate this and
otherwise I mean uh it's just not going
to happen and like that's one of the
nicest lessons I think uh it's like an
absolute pleasure to learn this because
it's such a nice thing to have to do
yeah I have been um I shouldn't say
pleasantly surprised but um because I
probably should expect this more but
there's definitely been a lot of
projects that have approached and just
said you know how can we how can we work
closer with the Internet or with
definity how can we and it's not just
like how do we get started building on
the internet computer it's more like hey
like how what do you guys need from us
yeah yeah like we wanted we wanted yeah
what can we offer you guys to get you
strategically interested in our in in
our Direction um so yeah a lot of lot of
contacts there to follow up on and um I
don't know it's just uh uh cool to see
because I I you kind of do get this like
ether the ethereum ecosystem is is tends
to think about the ethereum ecosystem
the internet computer's not part of that
or we've only recently become part of
that with with our evm RPC um so it's
kind of cool though to see like
you know the the the definity name is
really well known around the space the
internet computer name is really well
known around the space and now that
people are hearing about um you know our
RPC capabilities they're like oh okay
well yeah you're come come on into this
club and and uh and let's talk about
like how we can work together yeah and
it it is quite welcoming it's like okay
come on in let's show you how this works
like let's let us show you around town
let's uh like if you want to if you want
to come and play with this in this town
basically here's what you need to know
and for me this is like super valuable
because this is kind of like the kind of
information or the kind of feeling or
the kind of I don't know you can only
get by coming to these things like you
can't pick this up on crypto Twitter
like this I mean there's no
documentation for how communities work
you know I mean maybe there are some
blog posts or whatever but like if you
want to actually work with a group of
people where is the where is the
documentation like where is the prot you
know right and so this is something that
you only get by being here and for me
this is like the real highlight of being
at these types of events yeah yeah you
can't um as much as we want to live
digitally in web 3 there's still
something to be said about being face to
face you know and I mean the the feeling
that you get when you've talked to
somebody for like years online and then
you actually meet them in person and um
so that's actually been a really cool
thing you know obviously anyone you know
the ICP ecosystem you know everyone from
our community who's been here at Eber
they've been stopping by the the
definity booth and you know and you're
they're like hey you know it's me and
I'm like I I don't I don't know and then
they say their Twitter handle I'm like
oh yeah we've been chatting forever like
like this is so cool to meet you in
person and like to put a a a physical
body behind a picture human thing yeah
yeah like that that's been so much fun
um I loved uh yesterday I got to talk
with uh some of the people from octopus
Network so they're building omnity um
which is really just like the case study
for multi-chain in my opinion like what
they're building is just basically the
the the the vision for what we want
multi-chain of like real seamless
experience across the web3 landscape um
they put out a tweet earlier on uh I
think yesterday that that um I'd
recommend everyone go ahead and find um
actually I think you can see octopus
Network in the uh they're in the space
so hello um yeah yeah so everyone check
out their Twitter handle they they've
got a tweet in there that does a real
great job of going in depth of why super
yeah and so it just is again going into
that like the the theme of this
conference is definitely multi-chain
it's going under some different it
depends on who you talk to they'll say
multi-chain I've heard Omni chain
mentioned a lot um cross chain cross
chain
inability yeah chain abstraction account
account abstraction which is like I
guess like just a subset um probably um
I've seen that the other theme I've seen
also is monolithic uh everyone in the
ethereum community is like monolithic
like we want just one Tech stack are
they're moving away no I think like I
also see like that they're moving away
to this module like they're moving away
from this monolithic infrastructure to
this modular infrastructure where I can
take pieces of this execution
environment I can take pieces of Solana
or near I can take pieces of ICP I can
take pieces of like Celestia data
availability I can take I can take my
consensus from here my execution from
there my settlement here and uh so I
think this is also a huge narrative that
I've seen as well but yeah it's really I
mean if you're a developer that's really
what you want you you want to use the
tools you already know you don't want
have to learn a whole bunch of new tools
um and you also just want it like you
don't want complexity cuz if you're
already trying to if you're already
trying to push the envelope on Tech uh
and then you add complexity into that
you're just going to be beating your
head against a wall like over over and
over again so yeah it's uh and I mean
all these different parts have different
pros and cons and maybe in different
situations and different types of apps
some of them are more or less relevant
and so I think having this sort of
flexibility to choose the bits and
pieces that you want from the different
uh layers of the stock this is this is
great yeah you know um another topic
that's been really interesting and I
think you know everyone tries to time
their their news releases around eth
they want they want the conference
everyone talking about it um obviously
you mentioned Pass Key already with
coinbase coming out with their Pass Key
option um R we have also had their AO
announcement um and I've had a few
people approach and say hey we saw you
know we heard about AO or we saw the
press release and I just want to see
what's what's different between what
they're trying to do and what you guys
are already doing and I just I mean I
answer like well it's not it's not our
job to tell to tell why they're
different than us like we we you know
we've been here like
go ask them like they're here their
Booth is just around the corner go talk
to them and find out like what what the
difference is um so I have kind of felt
like that little bit of vindication of
like you know we we have been ahead of
the curve uh and and really you know
people don't want to say it but we're
kind of trend setting and and there
other projects are looking to what we're
doing and being like Oh that's a great
idea let's let's go ahead and go down
that road so I've heard people start
talking about like Hey we're going to
try to do a native Bitcoin integration U
that was been brought a few times um
it's and it's it's one of those things
um like in my opinion it uh and I think
this has been borne out time and time
again when you're the only one doing it
uh it doesn't it it's not it's not as
interesting as when other people do it
so for example like Bitcoin integration
is a great example of um you know we did
it and then all of a sudden ordinals uh
kind of kicks off this new interest in
it and and that only helps us it it's
not a like you know Stacks but they're
not release is not um it doesn't hurt us
that actually brings more awareness of
of our Bitcoin integration and both both
projects can benefit from it and you're
seeing it with um R weave AO as well
bringing this idea of you know storage
and compute in in a single platform is
very powerful and it's like yeah that's
that's right and so the more the merrier
because like that just brings more and
more validation to um you know the the
tech act that we've built and it brings
just more awareness of of what we've
done so it's been really fun to watch
that happen as well yeah it's
interesting actually um yeah to see it I
think validation is a nice thing because
I think at the you know like earlier on
in the kind of blockchain industry you
know
decentralization was God like this not
even decentralization but like numbers
like big numbers like uh huge amounts of
validators or huge amounts of
replication at least you had to have a
high Nakamoto I mean yeah like I mean
not that many people achieve a very high
Nakamoto coefficient but like at least
uh having numbers of replication uh
somehow was good and now it's like okay
well actually I mean if we do want to
use these things and if we do want to
have them in reality like having you
know I mean other things are needed and
it's cool to see that the kind of design
decisions that were made in the internet
computer in the early days are kind of
now
being um realized and accepted and maybe
even mimicked or whatever so it's really
cool to see uh it's yeah it's so like
you mentioned like the decentralization
that's a great example of what you're
talking about with maturity in the sense
of it was almost like we as an industry
we wanted decentralization because we
felt like that was all we offered the
world like that was our value
proposition and so the the more
decentralization the better and we had
to that's all we had to offer but now
you're starting to hear all these like
like decentralization is only a tool
right it like if you need to build a
product that needs decentralization then
it's an important tool but if your
product doesn't require a lot of
decentralization then sometimes that
replication Factor can slow you down and
and hurt your user interface like
there's other aspects to blockchain that
um that have now started to rise and
people starting to see like okay like
it's not all just about having a
decentralized version of something that
already exists it's actually more about
using this Tex act for you're so right
cuz I remember like when I was doing my
PhD so I studied cryptography and like
at the time blockchain is like obviously
super interesting to a cryptographer but
at the same time they were like but why
like why why do this okay it's
interesting sure but why does anybody
need this and like is this going to last
and like you know why not just use a
database like why not just why do you
need a distributed Ledger why not just
use a database and why not just use like
there was there were other ways to do
sort of decentralized payments where you
didn't need like a full blockchain or
whatever it's was like why not just use
these simpler things whereas now it's
like okay we've gone beyond like and it
was always the question about what's the
real use case here like when when
someone comes up with a real use case
then I'll care about blockchain this is
what a lot of the like cryptographers
were kind of saying at the time and um
but now it's like Aha and it was also
like also people within the blockchain
industry kind of as you were saying like
decent centralization was the thing that
we could offer so like it was always
about these were the metrics that we
chased and the same with like um and
like and the competition was what we now
call Web 2 like a cloud services or what
right and so when we talked about
computation or speed or whatever there
was always the comparison against oh
it's only you know 10x more expensive
than Amazon but you still get this you
know you get decentralization right
right so like these arguments were kind
of not very compelling because it's like
okay why do I need decentralization and
why do I have to pay 10 times more for
it and like no one really had the answer
and like maybe there isn't a good answer
to that question but now we start to see
that with all these kind of other
features that come around with this
maturity it's like aha these are the
things that Amazon cannot offer and
these are the things that are now
becoming so efficient that they can
compete in price and speed with like
traditional cloud service providers and
like uh this is kind of one of the other
things that a bit came out of um like a
few of the conversations during the week
that's kind of something that emerges as
an idea in in the community now that
like we we we're Beyond web 2 like we
are actually realizing web 3 and it's
not just about tokens or payments or
whatever but it is like let's say the
sort of Dow style thing like web 2 can't
really offer you a Dow right like you
can't really have I mean you need it's a
decentralized system like you can't have
this on a centralized system like it's
just it's as simple as that but the Dow
now is the use case for this and there's
also things like um like this open
information question this kind of came
up a lot there as well like um we need
open information because if you think
about even I mean so many things but
even for example AI models coming up
like in the future if these are all run
and closed systems I mean who knows what
is going in who knows what is happening
who knows what is coming out but these
whatever it is that's coming out is
training you is educating you is
informing you is you know is your friend
whatever so if this is all closed I mean
this is just crazy so I think yeah these
sort of use cases that emerge now and
even something like vet keys I think
this is are like having privacy like
decentralized priv privacy tools yeah
this is something that web 2 cannot
offer either like and so for me these
are the things that kind of web to can't
do that we now start to see being
realized in an efficient way yeah that's
that's like that's the perfect framing
right it's we've moved from an industry
that you know we're just basically
replicating what already existed on web
Tu and then calling it and then being
decentralized um to now one where we're
like actually we're building products
that can't be built on web too and it's
not like a decentralized version of what
already exists um yeah you know when
when you mentioned AI actually I'm
surprised there's not a lot of AI hype
at eat Denver I don't know if you've
heard heard I have seen some stuff but I
talked to people who
said that they saw a lot of cool stuff
so I haven't seen it myself but maybe
I'm just looking more too much at the
multi-chain uh narrative um I have my my
interests but uh I've heard that there's
a lot of cool stuff and like people
doing some serious uh decentral actually
there are some friends of mine who have
a small company who do like ZK ml so
like zero knowledge machine learning
they've been here giving some talks I
heard of another few companies that are
doing some like really interesting
decentralized AI stuff as well so I
think a lot of it is maybe it's kind of
Starling it's like maybe at the research
stages at the kind of prototype stages
at the proof of concept stages mhm but
not really um fully used and tested yet
so it's getting there I imagine maybe
next year you see really really a lot
but I think from the kind of research
perspective it's happening I see okay it
makes sense and I mean it it's a new
Avenue right it's a new um segment and
just as crypto and blockchain took you
know was given 10 years to find kind of
that like hey instead of just copying
the you know what already exists and and
moving it onto this Tech stack let's
actually find out new Innovative uses of
the tech St AI is going to need that
time on AI and blockchain at least right
to to kind of evolve we do have like El
Elna I know I was talking about them
this morning with um uh um it was a I
don't I don't know I don't want to say
too many I'm not going to say names but
it was a it was a um a a director at a
uh for director of basically blockchain
technology at a major US Financial
Institute and she was saying like yeah
I'm really disappointed and I was hoping
AI would take off and I'm not I haven't
seen it yet so far um although she was
on her way to uh Ani Summit so uh maybe
she's going to hear more about it today
but you know so I was mentioning Elna
and uh she was like oh wow you know an
llm in a smart contract like is that
possible and I was like yeah it's
possible so like we're still at that
like is it possible here somebody proved
it's possible exactly and now we have to
maybe start figuring out what's the
what's the product from there and so um
kudos to them I know for my I was able
to give a talk yesterday and that was um
that that idea of like thinking about
blockchain as uh Technologies with
interesting properties not just like a
token Ledger right is kind of a key key
part um of like look and you know pick
and choose just like how Uber was able
to say you know um GPS plus instant chat
messaging Plus credit card payments
online those three things can be
combined to form you know to something
that can replace taxes um that same like
concept is like I think where people are
starting to get to of like it's not just
about Bitcoin transactions
or holding holding Bitcoin it's actually
so like here's a great example I've been
showing people people really found this
uh impressive and I think I might be
giving away my million doll product idea
here but I'm gonna say it anyways
because I've been showing people that
I maybe yeah maybe I I'll delete the
Twitter space after this um but I've
been showing people that i' I inscribed
my wedding anniversary into Bitcoin
right and that's just one of those
simple things the reason I did it was
because I believe Bitcoin is the
database that will outlive all databases
and now my wedding date is on bitcoin
and so it'll outlive any other way I
could store that that kind of that
artifact of of my life and so um I know
it's kind of a cool cool use case of
thinking of the you know using Bitcoin
as a database yeah actually I mean I
also when I got married I also talked
about like we should have like a wedding
registry service on I'm sure it exists
but like a oh like a like a web 3
service just no I mean like some service
to do these sort of inscriptions or to
so yeah yeah okay so now I now there's
two people who agree this is a good
product uh this might be something I
also talked to somebody else during the
week who also thinks this is a good idea
are they building something no okay so
I've got a window of open yeah but
another thing I heard about actually now
that you say this kind of real world
life events um another thing that I
heard a lot this week multiple times is
about inheritance like solving this
inheritance problem in like uh physical
inheritance like uh passing down wealth
fromation like exactly like Bitcoin like
I mean suppose you hold a lot of Bitcoin
and you want um it to be released to
your kids or something if something
should happen to you um I think this is
also like a quite nice I mean this can
be all done
automatically um this yeah and I think
this is quite a nice way to have the
smart contract I think like very early
on in the like conversations about smart
contracts there was a lot of like talk
about okay they'll replace legal
contracts s because this is what people
knew and you compare it to what people
know and I think now it actually starts
to happen that people uh do start to
replace legal contracts with these kinds
of things but again it's because the
industry is maturing and it is because
we expect Bitcoin to last and it is
because we expect it to still have value
yeah it definitely it definitely feels
like it has gone from the uh like let's
just try around but really who knows if
this industry like it's the conversation
is very much like
we're we're here like there's real
Innovation going on and um I don't i'
the vibe is just so Dynamic and vibrant
it's it's been incredible and it it
comes like we it was just like four
months ago like we were in the doll
Drums of like the toughest time in
crypto right like the there has never
been a harder time for developers don't
talk about the past yeah but it doesn't
like exist anymore like when you're here
talking with people like it's almost
like that memory is is long gone and and
we're uh I don't know like how quick and
it and I think a lot of it is that
people kept building they kept their
head down and now that um you know mood
has changed uh everyone's popping their
head up and being like by the way this
is actually I've made these these
advancements in that time yeah exactly
and everyone's like wants to kind of
show off their their awesome work during
the during the hard times yeah it's very
cool actually I've seen a lot of
projects doing exactly this and I mean
people I don't know it didn't feel like
people disappeared from the or anything
while while there was this kind of hard
times yeah but uh it somehow it seems
yeah that they pop up and it's like whoa
you've been busy like this is so cool
like and they have like a long list of
stuff now to start releasing that
everything is kind of picking up again
right right it'll be it'll be
interesting to see what this this event
is like next year I think they might
have to expand to a new new building
I've heard rumors uh that they are and
so I mean it there's a lot of PE I don't
know what the numbers are but there's a
lot of people here in Denver ready to
talk about what they've been building
yeah it's cool I like to see it yeah any
uh I anything else so what has been the
uh highlight of your week what have you
learned what is like uh really what is
the memory that'll stick in your mind
forever oh gosh that's a hard question
what what what is the memory you would
inscribe what memory do I want to
inscribe um I had a chance to have lunch
with uh Bob Bley and Jordan last
yesterday and just some of the
conversation in term terms of like ways
to use Bitcoin uh was was really cool um
I got to see uh I feel like Jordan is
like top class uh knowledge but Bob was
Bob was kind of schooling him on some of
the things like the two of those minds
are going back and forth was really cool
um but I think honestly probably my
favorite part is just like meeting these
meeting meeting people who I've
interacted with online all these times
and like meeting him in real life and
seeing them as a like a human being and
not a pfp and um I don't know but you
know it's easy to kind of just you know
live in the digital world and then you
get out and you start seeing people and
what's going on and you're like holy cow
like it feels like um you know I don't I
have a lot of like Memories Back you
maybe many of the people who listen to
this or watch this uh won't um won't
know this time but like the early
internet when is that early I mean like
when you had AOL when you had to install
a DSP back in my day called in with the
modem and I remember just being like uh
like I'd read the news online and there
was like it was nobody was really
putting news online you know and then I
would uh go in a chat room and talk but
like that was the extent of the internet
and then and I would tell my parents
like this thing is like really cool and
stuff and my dad would be like well why
would I read the news online why would I
spend the time to log into a computer
and takes 10 minutes to get online so I
can read something when the newspaper's
going to come and and just not really
having the answers then to be like well
no this seems like the future cuz I was
too young but now it's gotten to where I
feel like our industry was in that state
maybe a couple years ago and just
getting that feeling of like oh actually
there's like legitimacy here and the
world is really about to like start to
experience it in a real way yeah that's
cool yeah I think for me one of the kind
of highlights someone actually I was
just walking yesterday with a web3
friend who know know me as my pfp
basically and then someone stopped me
and was like ah you're the vet Keys Girl
and I was like yeah I'm the vet Keys
girl um so it was really cool like that
to see that people are paying attention
to like the stuff that we're doing also
it's not just um the multi-chain stuff
but also a lot of the other tools on the
internet comp yeah oh gosh we didn't
even touch into like some of the other
stuff we're doing but I know we're
running out of time and uh I don't know
just everyone listening this just uh
it's a lot of excitement going on um you
know I feel really honored to be part of
the internet computer project and and
and the direction we're heading in and
um I don't just excited that I get to
watch everyone building out these
awesome tools uh that that uh that are
building out real businesses so I any
any closing words that uh no I think uh
yeah it was very nice thanks for having
me I think I'm excited for the year I
think a lot of stuff is going to happen
everyone's super bullish and uh yeah I
think it's going to be super great year
awesome well everyone Thanks for uh
tuning in and uh you'll hear more from
all the interviews and talks we do from
E Denver but a lot of content coming out
and and you'll hear you hear more uh
throughout the coming weeks so take care
thanks Ashen bye
bye
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