Broke to Saving $1 Million in 5 Years: Achieving Financial Freedom with Grant Sabatier
Summary
TLDRIn this insightful conversation, Grant Sabatier shares his personal finance journey from having no clear direction in his early 20s to achieving financial independence. He discusses the importance of viewing money as a tool for freedom, the psychological aspects of wealth, and strategies for managing finances. Grant emphasizes the value of simplicity in financial planning, the impact of climate change on investments, and the need for adaptability in an uncertain future. He also shares his experiences with money mindset shifts as his net worth grew and offers advice on building resilience and making the most of the current opportunities.
Takeaways
- 🌟 Money mindset is crucial, and scarcity or abundance mentality can significantly impact one's financial journey.
- 💡 Personal finance is often misunderstood, with many outdated or scammy pieces of advice available.
- 📚 Financial education, through books and resources, can be life-changing and shift one's perspective on money.
- 🚀 Entrepreneurship and side hustles can lead to financial success and independence.
- 🧠 The psychological aspect of money is powerful; how one views and manages finances can change drastically with experience.
- 🏠 Real estate and index funds are considered solid long-term investment strategies.
- 🔄 Money is a tool that, when managed well, can provide freedom and reduce stress.
- 🌍 Climate change poses a significant risk to investments, and adaptability is key in preparing for its financial impact.
- 🤔 Over-optimization in finances can lead to money addiction; it's important to balance knowledge with action.
- 💼 Running a business allows for direct control over investments and can lead to significant financial growth.
- 🔮 Future uncertainty calls for resilience and adaptability in both personal and business finances.
Q & A
What was Grant's initial perspective on money and how did it change over time?
-Initially, Grant viewed money as a source of stress and something to run away from, as it was a constant topic of discussion and struggle in his family. However, after becoming broke and having no other options, he started to explore the concept of money deeply and realized it could be a tool for freedom and happiness. This shift in perspective led him to build a successful career in digital marketing and eventually achieve financial independence.
How did Grant's parents' financial struggles influence his money mindset?
-Grant's parents' financial struggles instilled a sense of scarcity and stress around money in him. He grew up with the belief that there was never enough money and that life wasn't fair. However, he was able to overcome this mindset by educating himself about money management and personal finance, leading to a more abundant and empowered relationship with money.
What book had a significant impact on Grant's life and financial philosophy?
-The book 'Your Money or Your Life' by Vicki Robins and Joe Dominguez had a profound impact on Grant. It introduced him to the concept of trading life energy for money and the importance of valuing time over money, which became his life philosophy.
How did Grant manage to save $1.25 million in 5 years, 3 months, and 6 days?
-Grant achieved this by working in digital marketing during its infancy, saving 80% of his $52,000 salary, starting a side hustle, and eventually launching two different companies. His disciplined approach to saving and reinvesting his income allowed him to accumulate significant wealth in a relatively short period.
What is the 'Perennial Kid' fire movement story that Grant mentioned?
-The 'Perennial Kid' fire movement story refers to Grant's journey of saving over 80% of his income, living extremely frugally, and eventually saving $1.25 million in about five years. This story is an example of the 'financial independence, retire early' (FIRE) movement, where individuals prioritize saving and investing to achieve financial independence at a young age.
How does Grant currently manage his money in terms of short-term and long-term investments?
-Grant keeps two years of living expenses in a high-yield savings account, which he uses to cover his monthly expenses. For his long-term investments, he primarily invests in index funds, owning a significant portion of his net worth in them. He also has a small percentage of his investments in real estate and his business. Currently, he is focusing on reinvesting back into his business rather than adding more to his index fund holdings.
What are Grant's thoughts on the impact of climate change on investments?
-Grant believes that climate change is the biggest risk to every individual's investment portfolio. He suggests that the impact of climate change will be significant and could affect the entire supply chain and infrastructure, potentially leading to shifts in what are considered sound investments. He emphasizes the importance of building adaptability and resilience into one's life and investments in light of these changes.
How does Grant view the role of money in his life now compared to when he was younger?
-Now, Grant views money as a reflection of who he is and as a powerful tool that, when used wisely, can bring joy and freedom. He manages his finances with a focus on intuition and ensuring that his spending aligns with his values. Unlike when he was younger, he doesn't overoptimize his financial decisions and instead seeks to minimize friction, allowing money to flow where it's needed without causing stress or friction in his life.
What advice does Grant have for people who are new to managing their finances?
-Grant advises people to first understand their net worth and have a baseline level of financial knowledge. He suggests reading a few key books or watching educational videos to gain this knowledge. He also emphasizes the importance of seeking out specific advice from experts when needed and focusing on the big picture rather than getting lost in the details.
How does Grant approach the concept of financial independence?
-Grant's approach to financial independence involves building a business to sell, structuring it in a way that the sale will be taxed at capital gains treatment, and reinvesting profits back into the business. He also focuses on keeping his taxable income low and building a company that can provide him with enough income to live comfortably without needing to withdraw money from the business.
What are some key takeaways from Grant's conversation about money and personal finance?
-Key takeaways include understanding the importance of money as a tool for freedom, the value of educating oneself about personal finance, the significance of building adaptability and resilience in investments considering climate change, and the evolution of one's relationship with money as they grow and change. Grant also emphasizes the importance of aligning financial decisions with personal values and intuition.
Outlines
💡 Introduction to Financial Mindset
The speaker discusses the common misconceptions and stressors surrounding money, particularly among young adults. They highlight the societal pressure that equates success with wealth and the resulting stress of not having enough. The conversation then shifts to an interview with Grant Sabatier, who shares his unique perspective on personal finance and the journey he took from financial struggles to becoming a successful entrepreneur and advocate for financial freedom.
🌱 Growing Up Amid Financial Struggles
Grant shares his personal story, starting with his upbringing in a financially strained household. He talks about the pressure he felt growing up as an only child with parents who made significant sacrifices for his opportunities. Despite academic success, Grant found himself lost and struggling financially after college, which led to introspection about the nature of money and its role in his life.
📚 The Turning Point: Reevaluating Money
The speaker describes a pivotal moment when Grant began to question the societal obsession with money. After finding himself broke and unemployed, he started to research and rethink the conventional wisdom around money. He discovered that much of the information available was outdated or misleading, leading him to a philosophical exploration of money's true value and its impact on personal freedom.
🚀 From Broke to Financial Independence
Grant details his journey from financial instability to saving over $1.25 million in just five years. He explains how he transitioned from various unfulfilling jobs to finding success in digital marketing. His philosophy shifted to viewing money as a tool to acquire freedom, leading him to save aggressively, invest wisely, and ultimately achieve financial independence.
🤔 Reflecting on Money and Relationships
The conversation delves into the psychological aspects of money, particularly how it affects relationships and personal growth. Grant discusses the scarcity mindset and the narrative of life not being fair, which he internalized from his upbringing. He shares how these perceptions influenced his adult life and financial choices, and how he managed to shift his mindset towards a more abundant and empowering view of money.
🌟 Leveraging Knowledge for Financial Success
Grant emphasizes the importance of understanding one's financial situation and having a basic knowledge of money management. He suggests that even a small amount of financial literacy can provide a significant advantage. He also talks about the value of seeking expert advice for specific financial issues and how this approach helped him in his business endeavors, illustrating the importance of leveraging expertise to fill knowledge gaps.
🛠️ Simplifying Finances and Focusing on the Big Picture
The speaker advises on keeping financial strategies simple and focusing on the big picture. He argues that understanding the inflow and outflow of money, managing expenses, and saving or investing wisely are the key components of both personal and business finance. He warns against overcomplicating finances and encourages learning from basic resources to gain the necessary language and understanding to navigate financial decisions effectively.
🌍 Considering Climate Change in Long-Term Investments
Grant discusses the significant risk that climate change poses to investment portfolios and the importance of adapting investment strategies accordingly. He highlights the potential for climate refugees and the impact of climate on infrastructure and supply chains. He also talks about his personal investments in renewable energy and property in areas less affected by climate change, emphasizing the need to build resilience and adaptability into one's financial and life plans.
🤖 The Impact of AI on Future Financial Strategies
The conversation turns to the impact of artificial intelligence on financial strategies and the potential for AI to disrupt traditional income streams. The speaker shares his concerns about the future of online money-making methods and the need to adapt quickly to changes in technology. He operates under the assumption that current methods of making money may not be viable in the future, leading him to focus on saving, investing, and exiting businesses strategically.
💬 The Evolution of Money Relationships and Personal Growth
Grant reflects on how his relationship with money has evolved over time, from the emotional high of achieving financial goals to the realization that money doesn't fundamentally change who he is. He discusses the freedom that comes with financial security and the importance of not over-optimizing or over-extending oneself financially. He emphasizes the importance of being intuitive and honest with oneself about money, and how his relationship with money continues to grow and change as he does.
🌐 Staying Connected and Moving Forward
In the concluding segment, Grant shares how he prefers to stay connected with his audience, primarily through his newsletter and Instagram. He encourages people to engage with him through these platforms to continue the conversation on money, personal growth, and mindfulness. He also invites people to explore his website for in-depth content and insights on these topics.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Financial Independence
💡Scarcity Mindset
💡Personal Finance
💡Mindfulness
💡Victim Mentality
💡Digital Marketing
💡Side Hustle
💡Retirement
💡Your Money or Your Life
💡Ego and Finance
Highlights
98% of what I was finding was either a complete scam or just really kind of outdated.
Rich are just getting richer and they're stealing everything from everyone else.
My money story really begins... I grew up in outside of Washington DC, really amidst the meritocracy but I wasn't born there.
My parents really struggled with money my entire childhood.
I saved $1.25 million in 5 years, three months, and six days.
Time is so much more valuable than money, so make sure that how you make, save, and invest money ultimately is helping you acquire more freedom in your life.
I ended up working at a digital agency and saving 80% of my $52,000 salary.
I think there's this real scarcity component, where I think a lot of people even in how we talk about money is there's never enough.
As you begin to make, save, and grow your wealth, and actually take the time to understand what that freedom means, you reclaim a lot of that brain energy back.
You have to understand where you're at, so many people complaining about their financial life but they don't know something as simple as their net worth.
I think we're at a remarkable time to be alive right now, like just having access to blueprints and there's a lot of amazing resources and communities.
It's really those three things (inflow, expenses, and savings rate) in both your personal finances and your business finances that matter, everything else is just noise.
I keep two years of my living expenses just in a high yield savings account and that's what I live on.
I think the biggest risk to every single person's investing portfolio is climate change.
The most successful entrepreneurs are the ones who are able to adapt the most and resilience is key to adaptation.
I'm operating under the principle that every way in which I'm making money right now won't be possible past the next five years.
Money is a reflection of who you are, and the more time you spend with it, the easier it all becomes.
Transcripts
98% of what I was Finding was either a
complete scam or just really kind of
outdated a lot of people in their young
20s you know I had no idea what I wanted
to do with my life for me to win someone
else has to lose the rich are just
getting richer and they're stealing
everything from everyone else you know
this is kind of like a victim mindset or
mentality why is it something that we
fixate so much on why is it something
that stresses us out why is it something
that you know everyone's really obsessed
with money was stressful we never had
enough you see a lot of people they
reach retirement or or they become a
successful entrepreneur and they're like
oh my God what am I going to do with my
life I remember when I was starting my
second company saving $1.25 million in 5
[Music]
years hey everyone welcome back uh now
I'm very excited for today's
conversation we're joined with Grant
sabatier uh Grant how's it going it's
good how are you I'm doing good uh we
were talking about this earlier outside
of being in a very rainy weather in
Vancouver uh I'm doing great um but I'm
also I'm looking forward to this
conversation Grant CU I mean there's
many reasons but specifically like we
were talking I think a few weeks ago and
something that's really stuck out to me
about the way that you talk about money
is just your overall perspective on this
entire world of personal finance and to
be honest I think it could be surprising
to some people if they were just to look
at your highlight reel of like where you
started where you're going where you
came from um and so before we dive into
you know the nitty-gritty and we go
through strategies and tips I do think
that it will be helpful for people to
understand just a little bit of your
your background to see like why it is
that you're so passionate about this and
why you have been I'm such an advocate
for personal finance yeah so my money
story really begins you know I grew up
um you know in outside of Washington DC
really amidst the the meritocracy but I
wasn't born there I was born in Southern
Indiana in a One-Stop light town and my
parents grew up with very very little
and they decided to leave their very
large families and and move somewhere
where they didn't know anyone really to
give me a new opportunity and I'm an
only child and so you can imagine being
told that story when you're when you're
a young child that your parents
literally uprooted their entire life to
give you a better opportunity you know
it really stuck with me and and created
a lot of pressure I I think in my life
and then it was something where my
parents really struggled with money my
entire childhood uh really really
throughout my my high school years as
well and it was always something that
was talked about money was stressful we
never had enough it was something my
parents fought about it was very present
in our life it was something that you
know I wish I could run as far away from
it as possible um and my parents really
embedded a lot of you know their hopes
and their dreams into me and so I had
was kind of that that perennial uh child
and you know I worked hard ended up
graduating number two in my class and
ended up going to the University of
Chicago you know good school where I
played soccer and got some academic
money and really was was Off to the
Races and you know when I got there I
was like a lot of people in their young
20s you know I had no idea what I wanted
to do with my life and you know I felt
like there was something really really
wrong with me because of that and so you
know when you don't want know what you
want to be or where you want to you know
what you want to do uh you tend to to
bounce around a lot of things and so
after college I bounced around you know
four different jobs very very different
jobs didn't find the right fit ended up
being completely broke and having to
move back home with my parents these
parents that embedded so much of of
their life into me and their dreams into
me and I remember it was uh July 2010 I
was back home and they invited me to a
July 4th picnic and now my parents are
in their late 50s you know all their
friends late 50s early 60s and all
anyone talked about you know I was the
only adult child there quote unquote all
they talked about was retirement you
know everyone was talking about oh I'm
going to retire in 3 years 5 years 10
years and it was all they could really
talk about was money and you know I was
completely broke and didn't have a job
and you know it was a really beautiful
summer and I started thinking to myself
gosh you know what really is money like
why is it something that we fixate so
much on why is it something that
stresses us out why is it something that
you know everyone's really obsessed with
and I really you know paradoxically
hadn't thought about money much up to
that point uh until I was really really
broke and had no other option um and I
put on my you know philosophy major hat
and started thinking about money and
started going down the rabbit hole of of
what was written about money and
realized pretty quickly that you know
98% of what I was Finding was either a
complete scam or just really kind of
outdated and you know off and awkward
and um and then I started seeing
everyone talk about money as a tool and
you know happiness and all these things
wrapped up into one and I ended up
thankfully getting a book your money or
your life by Vicky Robins and Joe
Dominguez and I read it in August 2010
it completely changed my life it
introduced me to the idea that whenever
you're working you're trading your life
energy for money and time is so much
more valuable than money and so make
sure that how you make save and invest
money ultimately is helping you acquire
more freedom in your life this just
completely blew my mind uh and really
became my life philosophy so ended up
getting into digital marketing um at a
time you know when when Google ads was
was was you know pretty much in its
infancy and you know I ended up working
at a digital agency and saving 80% of my
$52,000 salary and then starting a side
hustle and starting a second and you
know I was kind of The Perennial kind of
fire movement story where you know I
saved over 80% of my income lived
extremely broke and ended up you know
through launching two different
companies uh saving $1.25 million in
five years three months and six days
from the day that I left my parents
house um effectively reaching Financial
Independence and really for that 5-year
period pretty much all I thought about
uh was money and really traded my late
20s mid to late 20s uh in the pursuit of
money but it's like anything else in
life you know while my friends were out
going to Chicago you know Bulls games
and having drinks and going to Coachella
I was sitting there figuring out how to
make more money and thinking about money
very very deeply and I popped out the
other end uh with with quite a bit of
money and some pretty unique Nuance
thoughts at least I think so you know
about money and energy and time and
Consciousness and all those things and
um started to share those with others
and launched a website Millennial money
and that grew and you know ended up
starting another business and you know I
feel very very grateful that you know I
finally found what I wanted to do and
that was you know help other others get
more freedom in their life but you know
it took me till you know I was a little
over 30 years old to to figure that out
I mean I I think that's great to hear
one just because there's like it's never
a linear Journey um but you brought up
two things that I think is interesting
which is so you said you grew up you
know only child money wasn't abundant
and uh your parents often fought about
money and I think that there's sometimes
this perception that like oh if we grow
up without very much that it means that
we are going to be a certain way with
money and what's interesting is despite
the pressure that you had from your
parents despite what you saw as far as
like oh my God I never want to
experience that for some reason you know
you you find yourself and which is so
common I think most of us have been
there you find yourself in the situation
where you're like wait this is exactly
what I didn't want how am I here and
then somehow you managed to switch it
but but I'm curious if youve had time to
kind of reflect on you know what were
some of the the triggers from when you
were younger that maybe seeped into your
your adult life um with managing money
yeah I mean I think there's just a real
kind of scarcity mindset you know is
kind of how we talk about it today where
there's just never enough and you know
there's this kind of life isn't fair
narrative that was really embedded along
with that you know there's there's never
enough money we're not going to have
enough money and you know I think that's
environment that a lot of people grow up
in it's kind of like well you know for
me to win someone else has to lose or
there's not enough for everyone to go
around you know money for every you know
for it to go around or the rich are just
getting richer and they're stealing
everything from everyone else and you
know this is kind of like uh victim
mindset or mentality and and certainly
um systemically the system is set up to
Advantage certain types of people based
on what they look like and where they
grew up uh more more than others um and
you know I'm the first one to to you
know recognize that you know I am a
white male you know and and and have a
lot of advantages that that others you
know haven't had uh but I think there
there's this real scarcity component
where I think a lot of people even in
how we talk about money so much of
what's talked about is you know
budgeting and saving and cutting back
and there's this real lack you know
there's this real like you got to cut
everything out of your life in order to
get where you want to go and so for me
switching from that to being like oh wow
I just made $50,000 building a WordPress
website you know in a week for a law
firm whoa I just made more money you
know in a week than I made you know in a
year in my full-time job gez that you
know is is there an upside here um and
really you know that's the beautiful
thing it's so nice people talking about
side hustles you know so liberally today
you know and I started writing about it
like there were 200 searches a month for
side hustling and now everyone's
figuring out how to make money on their
own terms and that's an incredibly
empowering thing right it's like you no
longer have to settle for someone else
controlling your time you have more
control over it yourself and so I think
for me that was a huge shift um and you
know I I think another one is just when
it comes to relationships generally you
know when money is really at the center
of your relationship and it certainly
was at the center of my parents
relationship and when you don't have a
lot of money that's really kind of all
you can think about and when you don't
have a lot it's like you know I think
probably 80% of your your your
day-to-day life is dominated uh you know
around money or thinking about money and
the Beautiful Thing is that as you begin
to make save uh and grow your wealth and
and actually take the time to understand
what that freedom means and take
advantage of some of it it's like you
reclaim a lot of that that that brain
energy back and so that's one of the
cool things too it's like now you know I
really think about money because I have
more than I'll ever need and so I have a
lot more time to think about other
things and I have a lot more space to do
other things and so I think there's an
element there where you see a lot of
people they reach retirement or or they
become a successful entrepreneur and
they're like oh my gosh what am I going
to do with my life and the big the big
reason is they're wondering is because
now they have like 80% of their brain
back um and they have to fill it with
something and so that that's another
piece where um you know I recognize even
in my friends you know I have friends
who are still really really stressed
about money and you know that's the
biggest thing that I see it's just just
dominates a lot of their energy and a
lot of their thinking time right and I
think that's a really great Point too as
far as the the conversations that you
have access to and I think you know like
100% a socioeconomic issue where if you
aren't around people that have money or
have you know advisers like I mean I
think it was within the last 50 years
there been 150,000 words added to the
tax code so you know this whole idea of
like oh the rich keep getting richer you
know if you pull back I think the
emotion behind that statement you know
just objectively if you have access to
resources accountants lawyers who
understand how this whole financial
system works you know you kind of do
have more time to think about you know
what do I want to do or how am I going
to use my money so that I have more time
for
myself however most of us don't have
access to an army of accountant and
lawyers uh even if you did grow up even
like you know middle class or upper
middle class um and this is something
that you have talked about in depth
right is like how do you leverage this
you know quotequote rigged Financial
system and I'm curious if there are any
specific strategies or even things that
people should be thinking through for
like how you actually even start to make
this work for you I mean the first thing
is you have to understand where you're
at so I see a lot of people complaining
about their financial life and their
financial situation but they don't know
something as simple as their net worth
or you know how much profit their
business you know their business is
making it's like remarkable how little
Clarity people have on just where
they're starting from today so if you
never have Clarity with where you're
starting from today you're just you're
not going to get anywhere right you're
you're you're at the the whims of the
market so you have to know ultimately
first where you're starting from and
then the next thing is you have to have
a baseline level of knowledge you have
to understand at least some of the
language to talk about money and this
doesn't mean you have to go read like 25
books it means you have to read like
three or four books or watch you know
five hours of YouTube videos or
something you know it's not like you
have to be get an MBA you know or PhD in
money but you know reading books like
mine or R sees or you know Morgan
howel's the psychology of money or you
know you can really a lot of the top you
know 100 personal finance books they're
pretty good they're going to teach you
kind of Ally what you need to know and
the same thing is true with your
business finances you know you can sit
and read um you know um just a few books
like you know traction or you know the
e- myth Revisited or you know there's
there there there's just a handful that
you can just read and just having the
Baseline language to be able to talk
about business then allows you to
rapidly seek out the pieces of advice
that are going to help you get an
advantage and what I mean by that is I
remember when I was starting my second
company and I was building an LLC and I
wanted to have business partners and I
was like gosh okay I know how an LLC is
structured and that I want to be taxed
as an S corp but I have no idea how to
structure you know an LLC pass through
Equity agreement right so I ordered the
$10 book you know Kindle book from some
expert guy who you know was was an
attorney in in in North Carolina and I
read that and I kind of understood but I
was like this is this is all foreign to
me I'm just going to figure F out you
know who's an expert in this so I just
Googled and found a guy who charges
$1,500 an hour and I ended up paying him
for 15 minutes of his time I actually
looked at this email recently you know
was like like eight years ago and I I
literally reached out I was like you
know your fees are very expensive I only
have one question I can send the
question beforehand can I buy 15 minutes
of your time and he was like yep sounds
good and so literally you know build me
for 15 minutes of his time I think he
talked to you for 17 minutes so he went
over a little bit but I was able to get
this very very specific question
that probably you know you'd need to
have this you know $1,500 an hour lawyer
New York lawyer you know like on
retainer in order to get it answered so
I think getting Clarity knowing a bit of
the basic language and then just seeking
out on a pay per hour or pay per
15minute basis that one person um who
has that expertise who can just fill in
that Gap in your own knowledge and so I
think that's really important as well
and you can just rinse and repeat that
really for anything um and it really
just perplexes me when you know I've got
a really good friend you know she was at
like uber for for 10 years and like had
all this equity and she's like super
smart PhD from California Berkeley
Economist like amazing and I was having
a chat with her one night and she's like
yeah you know like I really don't know
much about my money I just you know
outsourc all of that and and like really
couldn't even have a basic conversation
about it just because she didn't care
and I was like oh my gosh like you just
spent 10 years of your life making all
this money and getting all this freedom
and and and you haven't even just spent
a little bit of time thinking through
how it works like how do you even know
what to ask your financial adviser and
so I think it's important just to get a
Basel line level of language um and then
the final thing is like what an
remarkable time to be alive right now
like just having access to to Blueprints
and yeah there's a lot of like really
bad and crappy blueprints but but I
think we're like anyone listening to
this is is probably pretty smart and
pretty Discerning and you can kind of
sniff through you know the things that
are good and the things that are bad and
if you just search for a little while
like blueprints start popping out and
there's a lot of really amazing people
out there sharing their stories and how
they did things for free and a lot of
amazing resources and a lot of amazing
communities and um if if you really want
to find it and you're you're a little
bit curious it it's it's definitely out
there yeah it's I'm glad that you
actually that you you call like the
basic language because I've been so
fascinated with trying to learn about
money in the same way that you would try
to learn like literally another language
because I think that what's interesting
is that when you learn a language you
understand you know for the most part if
you're really diving into it you
understand like basic vocab or words but
there's also you know understanding of
the culture understanding of like why
certain words or phrases are said in a
certain way but then with money it's
like we try to memorize Concepts we try
like it's like basically when you're in
school like trying to memorize things
and I often see people go and myself
included going in and trying to learn
everything and then being like woof well
I'm not good with money but it's like
going into like an English 12 if you've
never even done English one right um and
so if we could just take a step back
when it comes to like maybe bucketing or
compartmentalizing the different aspects
of like okay I need to focus on this
first then I need to focus on this are
there like highle buckets that you
recommend people focusing on to start to
kind of build up that letter for ladder
rather for um understanding Finance yeah
first off I want to address the fact
that not knowing a lot about money
especially when it comes comes to you
know being an entrepreneur is actually a
real Advantage because I've had many
conversations with Wharton level NBAs
who because they're so in the weeds
they're so analytical they're
overanalyzing things that really at
their core are quite simple and I think
when it comes to money it's really not
that complicated and certainly when it
comes to business finances it's even
less complicated you know what I mean
it's like how much money am I making how
much money am I saving you know how much
money am I spending you know the levers
are are quite simple right so you need
to you know understand you know first
off you know the the the inflow of money
like how much money am I making where is
it coming from right you need to
understand your expenses where where am
I spending money the biggest thing you
know and there's there's so many
connections between your personal
finances and your business finances it's
like most people where they get in
trouble is that number one they don't
have enough cash flow coming in right so
they're not making enough money in their
personal life or in their business
number two their expenses are too high
in their own you know in in in your
personal finances you've got a mortgage
that's too expensive or a car payment
that's too expensive same thing with
your business you you've hired and you
know a website developer who's charging
you way above Market rates and you know
it's it's and that that's how you bleed
your money right so it's like your
expenses get out of control you know and
then the other thing is like what
percentage you know uh what's the
difference that that you're saving or
you know in your own life it's what
you're saving and investing right it's
your savings rate your investing rate
and that's the percentage of your income
that ultimately correlates to how
quickly you can reach Financial
Independence and then your business it's
what's percent of percentage of the
profit are you able to keep and and take
home and either decide to put it in your
bank account to spend put it in your
bank account to invest in some other
asset class or as a business owner
reinvest it back into your business and
it's really those three things in both
your personal finances and your business
finances that matter everything else is
just noise it's just finer detail on
those three points and so you can get
lost very quickly and I still get lost
and I run a multi-million dollar
business and I have a lot of money I
still get lost lost in cash flow
statements and in my balance sheet and
the these are things that like I know
how they work and I've created them and
they're tracking things that even you
know that that that are in my business
that I know and I still get slipped up
because the the more detail that you put
into anything um especially business
financial statements the more kind of
open to interpretation and and gray area
that you're introducing and so I know
how to look at them to make decisions
about my business but you know I think a
lot of people if they had a lot more
expertise and me would look at them and
probably overanalyze them and get so
lost in the weeds and you see this in in
in kind of the business sort of
Acquisitions and merger space a lot of
people just like focus on the wrong
things and so those are really kind of
the three things and then everything
else is just noise um and you can Google
it and probably find an Investopedia
article that you don't understand about
the topic and realize that you know I've
been doing this a long time and that
happens to me every other day you know
I'm I'm researching topics and I have no
idea you know what this means even after
reading it even after reading three or
four articles and that's okay um if it's
that complicated you probably don't need
to know it and you should just like pay
someone else for that expertise or it's
just noise and you know um you can just
come back to it later so I think keeping
it simple is really really important and
and is actually an advantage the less
you know going in because you don't have
all this baggage that you're bringing
you to the table to the conversation so
true it reminds me of I don't know if
you've ever spent time in the the
subreddits for credit card points uh I
knew people that were really into that
world and the perception that they give
of this world is that you need to know
so much you need to start enjoying
reading contracts and then you now with
oo and obviously we were creating
content and learning about this like I
was like wait a second this isn't
actually that it doesn't need to be that
complicated like yes you can do all
these like crazy things I'm like I just
book business class flights for $60 and
this whole time I thought that I need to
spend Years Learning it um but
it's yeah I'm glad that you bring that
up and also the point that you know your
business and personal finances are so
closely tied um I think there's this
idea maybe that not consciously but
unconsciously that maybe I'm not good
with my personal finances but like
business I got that like this time this
is how I'm going to look after it um and
on that note you were talking about you
know those three buckets one of them is
potentially
investing uh question that came up
yesterday one of our community members
was you know everyone talks about
retirement long-term investing you know
index funds ETFs all of that but how do
you grant think about investing when it
comes to even like shorter term and like
what are some of the things that you're
thinking through as far as like it
probably makes sense to consider these
types of Investments and um managing
that yeah I'll come to the side door
here uh the first thing it builds on on
the previous question which is I think a
lot of people try to over optimize their
financial life and even when they know
like the credit card points piece it's
like there is ultimately everything when
it comes to money there's a point of
diminishing returns there's sort of like
yes you can go deeper yes you can become
more of an expert yes you can figure out
this very nuanced thing but is your time
better spent doing that or actually
spent on going out and meeting some of
your customers or launching a new
product or launching into a new market
so I think that's a real thing with
money is that the people once you dig
into the rabbit hole you know over
optimization just becomes money
addiction you know in in another form um
and then I think you know to to kind of
build on that it really when it comes to
investing right now my life is like
quite complicated because the more money
that you do make just the more options
that you have right and so I can I could
literally spend you know 100 hours a
week just managing my money and try to
find the perfect place for it but that's
just not how I really want to spend my
time and so the way that I manage my
money is quite simple I keep two years
of my living expenses just in a high
yield savings account and that's what I
live on and so that's my cash that is
the money that goes It goes directly
every month from my high yield savings
account to my checking account and then
I pay my bills I pay my property
mortgages I pay my credit card off of
that I always keep this very large cash
buffer and I keep it in a high yield
savings account you know I'm getting a
little over 4 and a half% you know it's
a great time to have your money in a
savings account right now any money that
you're going to need for the next 5
years or less high yield savings account
is just a no-brainer put it in there
there's a ton of you know good options
and that that's where you should quote
unquote be be investing your money for
the longer term the answer is still
quite simple um you know the the tried
inure answer as you know is just invest
in you know a Vanguard Total stock
market index fund which is essentially
you know you're buying over two thou
pieces of over 2,000 companies in the US
and just and just let it ride right it's
going to go up some years and down some
years but you know over the the the next
25 years years even though it probably
won't perform you know as well as it has
in the last 100 which you know on
average it's about
7.2% uh dividend and inflation adjusted
returns you know per year it's probably
going to be a little bit less you know
probably in the four to 5% range and so
um knowing that you know plan your life
accordingly but I'm at a point now where
I'd say probably 90% of my net worth is
in index funds and then 5% is in real
estate I own three properties and then
5% is in my holding in my business and
right now I'm at a point where I feel
like I don't need to invest any more in
an index fund for the foreseeable future
I have enough stock exposure a big
enough pie there I could live off the
interest there forever right now every
dollar that I'm making I'm trying to
reinvest back into my company and the
big reason for that is I know exactly
how to use the money it's not like me
investing you know into Amazon and being
like hey Amazon you know Andrew jaffy
like good luck with this dollar you know
I hope you use it well right and they're
like what do we do we're not going to
finish our you know grants grants
investment would have built a you know
would have built a a great you know
conference room door at our new
Arlington Virginia headquarters but
we're not going to we're not going to
use that money anymore you know what I
mean it's like when you when you invest
in those companies you're like relying
on them to keep growing the business and
I think you know we're just in a lot of
uncertainty so I don't want to give my
money uh out to to any of those
companies you know specifically I want
to control as much of it as possible
because I know exactly how to invest a
dollar so right now I'm investing you
know 100% of the money that I make back
into my business and I'm at the same
time I'm doing it as a way to try to
keep my taxable income as low as
possible right so I'm using that
strategy to my advantage where it's like
yes I could take the money out and I
could spend it but I don't need the
money to spend I could take it out and
you know buy you know stocks with it but
I'd rather just reinvest it back into
the business and control it because I'm
running a company of which I own 60% of
and I know the best way to use my money
and so I you know I'm going to do that
and then the advantage of doing that is
that I'm building a company to sell and
so I'm I've structured it in a way that
when I sell the company uh you know that
that sale will be um you know taxed at
at cap capital gains treatment so you
know if I took the money out of the
business today that money I'm going to
have to pay self-employment taxes on it
you know I'm going to have to pay you
know New York and Ohio uh income tax on
it you know it's like I get taxed you
almost 40% on that money whereas if I
let it Let It Go and Keep building the
business I can create a bigger business
and then I could sell that and you
hopefully be taxed it you know 20% you
know in a couple of years when I sell
that business and get that advantage and
so that's that's how I you know manage
my money right now I think it just goes
to the point of you know when you're
starting out you're like oh like I'm not
making very much money and I need to
budget but if you can get comfortable
with budgeting where wherever you're
starting you know as soon as your money
or your money as soon as your business
starts making more money to to your
point it's not like you actually
strategically don't want to be putting
in as much money into your bank account
um because you know you do have to pay
for those those taxes um now just kind
of going back to and maybe this is this
question is going to age well or very
poorly um but when it comes to managing
long-term Investments um just
conversations that have been coming up
lately uh you know just around just like
uncertainty you know whether it's like
the news of like China and Brazil no
longer training the US dollar or index
funds like it's not the way to be
because everyone's just automatically
reinvesting in them um are there any
like red flags or certain things that
would make you think differently about
like index funds or just long-term
investing or like kind of how do you
just like navigate that when you hear
those things come up I love this
question I think the biggest risk to
every single person's investing
portfolio that's listening to this is
climate change 100% And I think that now
just the past couple of years you know
you see people like Janet yelling you
see you know you know the larger Banks
being like hey um you know climate's
going to going to really impact you know
our investments and then you look at
places like Florida and you know how you
know the large insurers won't even
insure homes down there because of the
flood planes and you look at somewhere
like Houston where like if Houston gets
flooded again you know the insurers
won't even cover the rebuilding of
Houston right you look at some something
like the water in the Colorado River or
the saddest thing right now you know
Jess is all of the people in the US that
are moving to like the Phoenix sort of
Tucson Arizona area where there's
affordable homes and I just saw that the
world's largest subdivision just opened
up recently you know in that area and
people are just flocking to it but this
is a place that every single climate
model says will be completely unlivable
in the next 20 years there's just not
enough water it's going to be too hot
and there's not enough water and so
you're going to see massive climate
refugees moving from the southwest North
into the Northwest and so things are get
really wild in our in our lifetime uh
you know and so how you invest for that
is um in somewhere that you can live you
know thinking about more locally and so
one of the things that I did is you know
I spent you know
$52,000 putting solar panels you know on
my house in Ohio three years ago and I
just got an email from AAP the electric
company here that they're going to raise
the rates 70% this summer you know what
my electricity bill is for my house
every summer it's like $8 a month right
and now my neighbor going to have to pay
you know3 or $400 a month if not more
and so you start seeing these things
where on your everyday expenses just the
impact of climate you know most of the
tax revenue for most cities you know
it's not going to be enough money to
support the climate projects you know to
support you know the increased rain you
know across so many places in the US um
I mean you look at the Pacific Northwest
and like you know the salmon population
and just like somewhere like Whidby
Island you know Washington you look like
they're not going to have any like
spruce trees youan it's it's estimated
that the next 30 Years all the spruce
trees are going to die so it's like what
happens to that microclimate in that
region and I think you know five years
ago this conversation was like um you
know being had amongst more kind of like
older liberal kind of hippies right and
now it's starting to get a little bit
more mainstream right but I still think
the average everyday investor is just
just doesn't even understand the impact
that climate is going to have even just
on an index fund um a and you know yes
there'll be some companies that make
money and innovate and figure it out and
clean energy companies that do well but
I think that just throwing all your
money in a long-term index fund and
thinking everything is going to work out
in the future you know just completely
underestimates the impact that the
climate's going to have on just the
entire supply chain and infrastructure
so then the question becomes like how do
you build more adaptability and
resilience into your life move somewhere
based on you know or or at least
evaluate the climate model for locations
that you're thinking about moving um you
know I'm looking at property in Maine in
areas where it's like I can you know I
mean you can buy like a $40,000 piece of
land and just be a little bit more
insulated you know just as an insurance
policy and so I'm looking at you know
where I'm moving and then when it comes
to being an entrepreneur the best thing
about being an entrepreneur is that
ultimately you can you know you have
more control over your destiny and the
most successful entrepreneurs are the
ones who are able to adapt the most and
just key to adaptation you you know is
is resilience right so you're going to
see a lot of people taking control of
how they make money but needing to Pivot
more rapidly um and using ultimately
your business as insulation around your
life I think about this in concentric
circles it's like you imagine your life
in your home and your fames at the
center the next ring outside of that is
is going to be your business so you're
building a business ultimately in a way
to sustain your life Empower your life
and then the ring outside of that are
your other Investments so how are you
ultimately extending out into the world
and investing in a way that you know can
can can help you to the extent possible
kind of mitigate this this kind of risk
and I don't mean to sound like so Doom
and Gloom here um but it's it's it's uh
it's it's going to be really really
important to um you know right now while
it's never been easier in history to
make money try to make as much as you
can and save that money and buy a house
that you can live in or a couple of
houses and um perhaps be located near
you know a food system or learn about
permaculture and you know buy some grow
lights and throw them in your basement
and you know it depends on how preer you
want to get but um I do I do think that
people just are out to lunch when it
comes to estimating the the everyday
investor just the impact that the
climate can have well I think like even
just like Beyond like okay I need to
find like green companies to invest in
like I think just it reminds me of uh I
do chess lessons uh CU I'm horrible at
it and I I used to like when I was
learning my teach
I was trying to remember moves I was
trying to remember exactly like in this
situation I do this uh and she was like
in chess but also in life it's like
don't remember Mo or don't memorize
moves memorize Concepts and ideas and I
think that like to your point of you
know just looking at climate change is
happening whether like even like the
most whatever like whatever people
believe if you want to go like one side
or the other but like if you were just
to say like what we all can agree on
climate change is happening and so you
need to think like you know like what
would that mean for your life like
you're saying your business your your
Investments um and so I I'm glad that
you bring this up because I don't think
it's something that we can really like
like there's any like push back or you
can disagree on and I think that to be
able to be a few steps ahead is
incredibly powerful and just Harvest
harvest the money now I mean like look
at the time that we're we're we're alive
in right now like in terms of making
money online and just the the ways in
which you can make money it's just it's
mindblowing you know and it's not like
mind blowing in like the build all these
passive income stream ways it's like
mind-blowing in the like you know it's
actually legitimate and true and so for
me I'm operating under the principle
that every way in which I'm making money
right now won't be possible past the
next five years and so that's my
assumption every single thing SEO is
going to get cut by AI all my traffic's
going to dry up you know Tik tok's going
to get banned the social media platforms
are going to come under a lot of
constraints Young consumers are you know
dropping down and and and going more
analog and so people who are interested
in money concepts are going to be using
flip phones and so are they even going
to be you know even in terms of how I'm
writing my next book like will people
even be reading money books you know in
in in the next five years and and how
will they be reading them and so I'm
operating like on a really accelerated
timetable you know when it comes to my
own business of like get in save as much
invest as much as possible sell it and
then get out so it's all it's all very
very intentional from that from that
aspect I honestly I feel like this is
could not come at a better time cuz I
was going to ask you about AI I was like
okay we got climate change yeah maybe
got a few years for that until it starts
really like happening but you know AI it
is the worst it will ever be now and
that is both like incredible but also
slightly terrifying as far as like
literally it could even replace like
people right learn the best sales calls
what they're saying replicate voice so
um that's a really interesting just
perspective of like you know fiveyear
window does that like are are you
thinking long term of like what your
next business will be or is it like what
can I do in 5 years to like maximize
this effort and then potentially pivot
when the time comes yeah I mean that's
the really beautiful thing about where
I'm at in my life is you know I just
I've already accomplished way more than
I thought I ever would in my entire life
and so what I was trying to prove to
myself or my parents or whoever was
around me I've done that a couple of
times now and so so now I'm in this very
sort of expansive open free place in my
life where you know a lot of it's more
just you know seeing something in the
immediacy taking advantage of it working
with really cool people you know just
creating building you know I feel like
I'm just on a playground just like
hanging out you know you know while the
cool kids are out there you know hanging
out playing and I say that through the
lens of like I think the future is so
uncertain that any trying to plan Beyond
any 5-year timeline is just it's not
only unrealistic it's just like a waste
of time and a waste of energy and so for
me it's just like I try really hard to
get as much Clarity and think about
where we're going to be in five years
but obviously the further out that you
get the more sort of murky that it gets
right and then the question just becomes
like how much time do you want to spend
thinking about that so I'm saying that
through the lens of like I thought that
the last business that I built and sold
would be the last business that I built
and sold and now that you know and I
thought I spent a year and a half
thinking about whether I even wanted to
do anything again right and then once
the opportunity fell into my lap and was
so clear you know it was like it was
like seeing something very very clear I
was like oh I can do that and I know
exactly how and I know who I'm going to
do it with that's when I decided to do
it you know so I I'm I'm really drisking
my businesses as much as possible by
making sure I have enough Clarity uh
upfront and that it's just worth my time
and my effort and that it's helping me
as a person expand and grow in some way
I think I really really suffer uh which
just thinking too small in my life you
know it's just something when you grow
up with nothing and it's like you know
literally was just like number one goal
save a million dollars as quickly as
possible I'm like I don't know how long
this is going to take me I thought it
might take me like 15 years right and
then I did it in five and then it was
like oh crap like what's the next goal
right and I looked out and I'm like
become a billionaire oh no that sounds
like way too much work I don't want to
manage like 50 companies like I
literally went down the path of reading
like every book I could by billionaires
and I learned quite a bit but I realized
like I'm not going to be this and I
don't want to be this like great so so
like I don't need a billion dollars I
kind of want more than a million but I
don't need a billion and then I was like
how much money do I even really need
right and and it really does start
having diminishing returns or like you
know literally if you gave me like $100
million tomorrow like I don't even know
how I would spend it and I don't think
that I'm sure I just give it away like
it's it doesn't really like you know I
don't see how it add value in my life
and so then the question is like why am
I doing this thing what could I get on
the other end and then like what's the
limited time window you know for it and
so um you have spent a year and a half
like kind of just like not wanting like
trying to convince myself in every
single way not to start another company
at all and then just like everything
lined up so perfectly where I was like
all right fine guys let's do it you know
um and so yeah I'm launching this
company and I have like a whole crazy
model every single person at my company
is a full Equity partner like really
cool model and like trying out all these
new ideas and like hypotheses like you
know as I'm building it um but yeah I I
don't know if I'll do it again um but
look you know you Chang a lot yeah no
but you changed a lot in five years you
I think that's what people underestimate
about money too is like a lot of the
goals and the dreams that you have today
like you won't have in 5 years like
without a doubt like I encourage
everyone like I always say this I'm like
just go back in your email just go back
in your Gmail or whatever and like look
up an email you sent 5 years ago and
read it like to anyone like you
literally won't recognize any single
word you won't remember sending the
email you won't recognize any word that
you said it'll seem like this person's
crazy like who is this person right but
it's you it's like you sent this email
so it's like we change so rapidly and we
don't even recognize it that like who
you want to be and what you want to
become like if you kind of hold on too
tightly to that narrative you're just
going to miss like who you've already
become and so you know I try to create a
lot of open space in my life for that
and just like I have no idea what I'm
going to like maybe I maybe I want to be
a billionaire in five I know that I
won't but like maybe like things will
change because like that's the whole
thing about like saving like up enough
money for the rest of your life like get
getting to any level of certainty around
that like you have no idea who you're
going to be or what you're going to want
to do or where you going you know so
it's just kind of like try to save as
much as you can and move towards that
because there's a lot worse things like
people tell me like oh like a million
dollars is not going to be enough you
know when you're 30 and it's sort of
like okay maybe it's not going to be
enough but like there were like a lot
worse problems than like figuring out
like how to start from a million dollars
at 30 than like you know you who just
like you know save nothing you know what
I mean so it's kind of like I'd rather
just give myself more options and space
and time and freedom in my life to just
like expand my thinking cuz I really do
think really really small like some
people think like really big you know
know but I think like really small and I
think that's just because of how I grew
up and like I climb One ladder and I
look at the top I'm like oh my gosh
there's like other ladders and there's
like other people and like you know what
I mean it's like I've had breakfast with
like so many of my Idols now and like
every time I meet them I'm just like
like that that's been the reward you
know what I mean it's like being able to
like be a part of a conversation that
you want to be a part of and around
people that you want to be around like
that is like figure out what
conversations you want to be a part of
and then just like move towards that as
opposed to just like chasing money and
then like everything else kind of falls
into its place you know um I think a lot
of people are like really really
close-minded you know when it comes to
it um so interesting uh gr I talked to
you for for hours um I do have one final
question if um if you do do you have
time for that one more question let's do
it yeah let's do it okay okay um just
because I think to kind of close things
out and I know I I almost wish we could
have like a whole dedicated conversation
about this topic in particular which is
about the psychology of money the
emotional aspect and just like the the
relationship that we have with it and
something that you know I am just like
so intrigued by which is how our
relationship with money when we start to
where it is now and just the the
patterns that happen and I'm curious
because you know someone who went from
as you put it you know I went from broke
to a million dollars in 5 years um
there's a lot like you have a perception
of a million dollars when you're at the
beginning and then when you have it it's
like you don't magically just become
another person you manage money
differently um have you actively changed
any patterns of how you spend money how
you operate with money um and if not
like what was a natural like transition
or how did that changed once you started
getting bigger yeah so you know saving
the million dollars like I remember
crying like being so overwhelmed
emotionally that I'd actually
accomplished this intense goal that I'd
set that a lot of people around me
thought was just like really crazy um so
that that was really there's a lot of Mo
motion there and then then you quickly
become used to like oh wow like now I
just really don't have to think about
like how much this dinner cost or like
flying first class or you know it's like
you're going to talk to REM me obviously
and it's like you know I really learned
this from him right CU like I'm a
different generation right I'm like the
you know a millennial you know compar
compared to him and I remember reading
you know I teach you to Rich and I was
like yeah like cool like spend on those
things that bring you Joy and the first
thing that I thought once I had a
million dollars I bought Alexis I like
huge biggie fan and so I I got rid of my
$800 Nissan Maxima and I and I bought
Alexis hybrid SUV uh a 2007 so it was
used right it was like 3 years used but
it was like I love it and I still drive
it today right it's like now now I still
drive like you know what a 16-year-old
car but I like I bought the car like
gave myself the reward it was like yes
and that was really just like at that
point I realized that just having enough
money to buy something was enough I
didn't actually need to buy it you know
what I mean like I could wake up any
morning and fly anywhere in the world
immediately just having that ability is
incredibly freeing I don't have to
actually go do it um but you know I
really hate flying and so I only fly
first class that was one of the things
once I saved a million dollars I was
like I'm only going to fly first class
right but like I still buy you know my
groceries you know at like Aldi and try
to you know spend like $300 a year on
clothes you know what I mean so because
like the things that I value are very
different but like you're going to see
me on first class and any flight you
know whether it's a you know a 45 minute
flight from from here to New York I'm
going to be in that first class seat or
I'm flying around the world you know and
yes I use points and yes I use miles but
to your point I definitely don't over
optimized for it you know what I mean so
so I I but that's just something I so
that was one thing and then once I once
I had over $5 million that was when
things like you know I sold sold sold my
first company and that was when it was
like really mind-blowing where like I
literally had to go to Palm Springs and
sit by a pool for a month and a half
because I like could not like I like
couldn't put my brain back together it
was like so surreal you know what I mean
and so I I had to like literally like
like there's just so much energy coming
out of me that I had to like let it like
cool off and dissipate for a while you
know what I mean and so I so I let that
happen um and then after that no but now
but now so now that you know that's been
like you know almost five years or
something since then so you know my my
money has continued to grow um now
spending a million dollar I just
recently sent a million dollar wire for
something and sending it like I remember
like the first time I ever uh it it was
it was for it was personal um oh and and
so yeah it was personal and so I
literally went into like my little Chase
Bank uh you know here where I live and
my bank banker and I was like here I
need to send a million dollar she's like
what you know and I don't keep all my
money you know I have all my money in
Vanguard right so I don't keep all my
money at Chase so I've got to like move
money into my checking account there's a
lot of money in my checking account and
then it's like U yeah I'm getting ready
to send this wired it's like like I like
I didn't even sweat you know what I mean
I'm like rolling in there like in my
sweatpants and my birken stocks like you
know my like you know I I like you like
I could just like rolled off you know
literally just rolled out of bed and
went and did it you know whereas like I
remember before like you know when I
bought my first apartment and like
sending that you know like $112,000 wire
and being like sweaty like oh is it
going to arrive and like you know is it
you know so there there's something
where now like money is very much like
water like I'm good at making it I have
a lot and I let it flow through me into
the places that it needs to go and I
don't think you know I try to minimize
the friction like my life is so
intuition driven now that it's like if
something feels really good and right
like you know I I I just I I I do it um
but I never put myself St in like you
know a precarious situation right so I'm
never spending you know more than like
you know 5 or 10% of my net worth on
anything um and so that really helps too
right it's like because you're and I
don't take risk I take huge risks like
you know this was this was me you know
wiring money to to buy buy an apartment
to buy to buy another home somewhere
that I just really want to go you know
just a vacation property um but yeah
just it just uh you get better at it you
know money really is a relationship it's
like anything you spend a lot of time
thinking about um and being honest with
yourself about it it gets easier um and
that's something that we just don't talk
enough about we really don't like people
you know money is energy it really is
and so like the more time that you spend
with it the easier it all becomes um but
you know you have to have that
experience and start moving towards it
right because it's like the more mind
you know I always say money is a
reflection of who you are it's like if
you're really stressed in your life like
money is just going to magnify that in
some way right but if you like realize
like how much energy it took you to make
all the money that you have and then you
spend it on those those things that like
really make your life or other people's
lives better like it's it's very very
powerful it's very very freeing um you
know at least for me um and my
relationship with it continues to change
um just like you know any type of
relationship does Grant thank you so
much for for sharing this um this is
such a fascinating conversation and I
think for those of you listening you
know I I hope that this has one inspired
you to you know Venture off into the
different areas in the pockets of this
conversation and see you know is there
anything there that you can dig into a
bit more or reflect on or even apply um
but yeah I I thank you for your time I'm
so excited to you know keep following
the work that you're you're doing um and
just for people who maybe are meeting
you for the first time um what would be
the best place for people to to stay in
contact with you that's a really great
question because I don't really
participate on social media I you can
follow me on Instagram um Grant sabatier
I I respond to all my DMs there it's a
great place to DM me but you probably
won't see me post um that that's a great
spot um and then yeah you can you can
join my newsletter at grant.com or
Millennial money.com I send a newsletter
out uh every other Tuesday with uh with
kind of my deep thoughts you know on
money so it's really kind of at the
intersection of money and and
mindfulness and so kind of what we
talked about today like the one that
went out this morning is is kind of on
the the the Paradox of the Paradox of
the ego and finance Independence and so
I dig into this idea of like trying to
be someone who you're not in the pursuit
of money and ultimately how that might
help you make more money but you're
going to be left empty inside at the end
of it so that's something popped in my
head you know I spent a couple hours
writing about it and so you know I
really like to move the conversation
forward um that's kind of what I'm into
is just kind of diving deep into this
and to myself and and and and just you
know I'm kind of on the outskirts of the
money conversation and that's that's
where I like to to be so yeah subscribe
to my newsletter and it's all it's all
free and um you know there there's a lot
of content to explore on on Grant
saa.com as well so I've written written
about a lot of topics and gone pretty
deep on a lot of this stuff and and um
yeah would love to connect with you love
it and I will say one caveat make sure
that it is the uh verified version on
Instagram uh storry for another time but
out of conversation with another Grant
um but also Grant thank you so much uh
and for those of you watching we will
see you next time thanks Jess
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