Is Diversity Killing Comics? (Response To Comicstorian)
Summary
TLDRThe speaker discusses the controversy around diversity in comics, criticizing the notion that comic book fans are against diversity due to racism. Instead, he argues that fans are upset because their beloved characters and storylines are being replaced or altered without their consent, leading to feelings of betrayal. He highlights past instances where character changes caused backlash and stresses that giving fans choices is crucial. The success of DC's Rebirth initiative, which restored old characters, is cited as evidence of fans' desire for continuity. The speaker concludes that diversity isn't inherently bad but should be offered alongside existing characters to respect fans' investments.
Takeaways
- 📚 The current debate on diversity in comics is often mischaracterized in the media as comic book fans being inherently racist.
- 🤔 Fans are upset not because of the introduction of minority characters, but because their beloved characters and histories are being replaced or erased.
- 📉 The New 52 initiative by DC saw initial sales success but eventually declined because fans felt disconnected from the new versions of characters.
- 🔄 DC's Rebirth initiative succeeded because it restored the histories of beloved characters, which resonated with fans.
- 😡 The backlash against changes like the new Wally West or Riri Williams is due to fans' long-term investment in the original characters, not their race.
- 💡 Comic fans, like all people, are resistant to sudden changes, especially when it affects something they've been passionate about for years.
- 📈 Diversity in comics is not inherently bad, but it should not be forced at the expense of beloved characters and storylines.
- 👥 Fans want choices in the stories they read, rather than being forced to accept new characters replacing old ones.
- 🕵️ Comic book fans' resistance to change is not new; it has happened throughout the history of comics with every major character transition.
- 🎭 The key issue is not diversity itself but how it's implemented, with respect to the existing fan base and their attachments.
Q & A
What is the main argument against the claim that comic book fans are inherently racist when it comes to diversity in comics?
-The main argument is that comic book fans are not against diversity due to race, but rather because they are invested in the characters they have grown to love and are upset when those characters are changed or replaced without their history intact.
What was the reaction of comic book fans to DC's New 52 initiative in 2011?
-Fans were outraged and felt betrayed because the New 52 initiative reset most characters' histories, disregarding the time, money, and emotional investment fans had in the original stories and characters.
Why did sales of the New 52 initiative initially do well but then drop off?
-Sales initially did well because of the hype and curiosity, but they dropped off as fans realized that the new versions of the characters did not resonate with them, and the stories did not feel authentic to the characters they loved.
What was DC's response to the declining sales of the New 52 initiative?
-DC introduced the 'Rebirth' initiative, which brought back the old characters and their histories, aiming to give fans the best of both worlds with the old and new elements combined.
How did the 'Rebirth' initiative impact sales compared to Marvel during that period?
-The 'Rebirth' initiative was a massive success, outperforming Marvel in sales significantly, with DC taking almost all the top spots in comic book sales, leaving Marvel with only a few titles in the top 30.
What is the common misconception about comic book fans' resistance to diversity in characters?
-The misconception is that fans are resistant to diversity because of the race or ethnicity of the new characters. In reality, fans are resistant to change when it comes to characters they have a deep connection with, regardless of the reason for the change.
Why did fans react negatively to the introduction of new characters like Riri Williams as Iron Man and Jane Foster as Thor?
-Fans reacted negatively because they were attached to the original characters, Tony Stark and Odinson, and felt that the new characters lacked the depth and history that made them invest in the original characters.
What does the script suggest is the key to handling diversity in comic books without alienating long-time fans?
-The script suggests that giving fans choices is key. Instead of forcing new characters onto fans, comic book companies should offer multiple titles featuring both new and old characters, allowing fans to choose what they want to read.
What historical example is given in the script to illustrate fan resistance to change in comic book characters?
-The script mentions the introduction of Barry Allen as the Flash, replacing Jay Garrick, and the subsequent backlash from fans who preferred the original character.
How does the script differentiate between forced diversity and organic diversity in storytelling?
-Forced diversity is when new characters are introduced without considering the fans' attachment to the original characters, while organic diversity is likely to be more accepted if it grows naturally from the story and respects the fans' emotional investment in the characters.
What is the script's stance on the role of comic creators in relation to diversity and character development?
-The script suggests that comic creators should use their imagination to create new and interesting stories rather than simply replacing existing characters with diverse counterparts without considering the fans' connection to the original characters.
Outlines
📚 Comic Book Fans and Diversity Debate
The speaker addresses the misconception that comic book fans are against diversity due to racism. They argue that the real issue is the change in beloved characters, using the examples of Riri Williams and New 52 Wally West. The speaker criticizes the media for misrepresenting fans' outrage as racially motivated rather than a reaction to the loss of invested characters. They reference the DC's New 52 initiative and its aftermath to illustrate how forced changes, rather than diversity itself, lead to fan backlash. The point is made that fans are resistant to change because of their emotional investment in characters, not because of the race or ethnicity of the new characters introduced.
🔄 The Cycle of Change and Fan Reactions
This paragraph delves into the history of character changes in comics, such as the transition from Jay Garrick to Barry Allen as The Flash, and later to Wally West. The speaker emphasizes that fan reactions to these changes have always been passionate, regardless of the race or ethnicity of the characters involved. They discuss how DC Comics' attempts to innovate with 'Flash of Two Worlds' and the New 52 initiative were met with initial excitement but eventually led to declining sales due to fan dissatisfaction. The speaker also touches on the importance of giving fans choices, using the example of Iron Man and Riri Williams, and how forcing diversity without offering alternatives can alienate readers.
🌟 The Importance of Choice in Comic Book Diversity
The final paragraph reinforces the idea that diversity is not inherently negative, but becomes problematic when it eliminates choice for readers. The speaker argues against labeling comic book fans as racist for their resistance to change, drawing parallels to sports fans' loyalty to teams. They highlight that fans' attachment to characters and their narratives is the driving force behind their resistance to change, not the racial or ethnic background of new characters. The speaker concludes by advocating for a diversity of options in comic books, allowing fans to choose the stories and characters they connect with, and suggests that this approach is what has led to the success of DC Rebirth over Marvel's current offerings.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Diversity
💡New 52
💡Rebirth
💡Forced Diversity
💡Character Investment
💡Sales Trends
💡Continuity
💡Legacy Characters
💡Reader Choice
💡Fan Loyalty
Highlights
Comic book fans are outraged because their favorite characters are being replaced, not because of diversity.
Fans feel betrayed when long-standing characters with rich histories are suddenly changed or removed.
The New 52 initiative by DC caused fan backlash because it reset the history of beloved characters.
The success of DC's Rebirth initiative was due to restoring the original characters and their histories.
Comic book sales dropped when new characters replaced old ones without proper introduction or development.
Fans want to see new characters created alongside existing ones, not as replacements.
The issue is not with the introduction of minority characters, but with the removal of established characters.
Marvel's declining sales are attributed to their forced diversity approach, rather than giving fans a choice.
DC Rebirth's success shows that respecting fans' attachment to characters leads to better sales.
Comic book fans are compared to sports fans in their loyalty and resistance to sudden changes.
Introducing new characters like Riri Williams without building their backstory and connection to fans is problematic.
The transition from one Flash to another (e.g., Barry Allen to Wally West) has always faced fan resistance.
Diversity should be about giving fans options, not forcing them to accept new characters at the expense of old ones.
Fans value the development and growth of characters over time and feel cheated when this history is erased.
Effective storytelling in comics involves balancing the introduction of new characters while respecting the legacy of existing ones.
Transcripts
diversity in comics is an interesting
topic right now it's kind of a funny
situation and the reason why is because
I've been going through these news
articles looking at people who are I
guess looking at these these posts that
people are making you know talking about
oh you know comic book fans are lashing
out of diversity yet again and what I'm
seeing is this common theme that these
news articles are basically making the
case that well comic book fans are
against diversity because they're
inherently racist you know they're
against Riri Williams because she's a
minority and they don't want to see a
minority succeed they're against the New
52 Wally West because he's a minority
and they don't want to see minority
succeed that's stupid and that's
probably one of the most irresponsible
instances of Journalism if you can even
call it journalism but it's one of the
most irresponsible instances of
Journalism that I've ever I've ever
heard of or ever seen in any form or
fashion the reason why comic book fans
are so outraged right now is because the
characters they're invested in are going
away that's why they're mad what's
happening is people are saying well no
it's like they're taking the notion of a
character's race they're slapping it on
and saying No this is the why they're
angry it's not because the characters
changed it's because they changed into
minorities no no no no the way you want
to know how I know that you want to know
how I know that fans were so outraged
that their characters changed the new 52
DC's New 52 initiative in 2011 when DC
came along and they said everything
stops except for Batman and Green
Lantern their their history is kind of
stay intact but everything gets re reset
whether you were a Spider-Man fan I'm
sorry Superman fan whether you were a
Wonder Woman fan regardless of what kind
of a fan you were people were lashing
out they were angry why because they
were invested because they started
reading comics in 1990 and they'd read
you know good Superman stories they'd
read bad Superman stories theyd read
great Wonder Woman stories they read bad
Wonder Woman stories but they were there
through thick and thin they were a loyal
fan to DC and now they felt betrayed
they felt cheated because all that
history was gone all that money that
they had spent all that time they had
spent reading those characters was all
gone and they were angry they were they
were outraged about it comic story and
did a really really good video where he
talked about the notion of diversity and
one of the problems that he addressed
was this idea of forced diversity
basically saying yeah the heroes changed
and you have to read the new Heroes now
DC did that and the new 52 sales did
amazing for like the first two issues of
almost everything and then after that
they started dropping off the only
exception to that was like Justice
League you know some of the more Premier
titles or like Batman as it was written
by Scott Snider because it was done so
well but for like 90% of their roster
sales were falling Swift and fast and DC
tried to change it up they said well
we'll do virgin we'll bring back some of
these old characters for alas tah you
know we'll bring back we we'll do like
DCU where it's just stories that revolve
around you and there's no continuity
it's just it's wherever you want it to
be and it was confusing and it was
ridiculous and sales fell even further
so you know what DC did DC said stop the
presses rebirth we're literally going to
bring back all these old characters that
you loved all those histories for those
individual characters are going to be
intact and we're just going to go from
there we're just going to keep on going
on you know and you're basically going
to get the best of both worlds and you
know what happened d rebirth took the
World by storm it literally set the
world on fire in 2016 and crushed Marvel
in sales I mean obliterated Marvel there
was one point I think I don't remember
if it was like July or August or
something like that Marvel had three
titles in the top 30 Publications
released in a month three DC took
everything else just throwing it out
there he was insane how well it did and
the reason why is because people felt
like they hadn't been cheated anymore
people got the histories in those
legacies back when F fan sat down and
they said hey there's this new 52 Wally
West I don't like him it wasn't because
he was a minority it wasn't because he
was African-American it was because when
they started reading Wally West they got
into him because of Justice League the
cartoon show because of Justice League
Unlimited the cartoon show because that
was the Wally West that they love
because they were reading Wally West
when he first became the flash they've
been reading him ever since and they
just liked him comic book comic book
fans are as resistant to change as your
average human being is I knew a guy at
the old job that I worked at who ate his
blueberry muffins for his morning snack
every morning at 9:30 on the dot didn't
miss a beat it was 9:30 a.m. you could
walk in he's sitting at that table and
he's eating his blueberry muffins woe be
tied the poor soul who walked in there
and said hey man give me your blueberry
muffin sorry you can't eat those today
he would lose his like he would
freak all right that's just how people
are well I've been doing it this way for
20 years and it just works and I don't
really see a reason to change it's
always been that way Comics that's
nothing new this whole diversity
initiative it adds a new dynamic because
of the fact that these characters are
minorities but the fact that they are
minorities is not why fans are adverse
to them in 1940 Jay Garrick appeared for
the very first time he was the flash the
first Flash and he was the flash for
like eight years or something like that
and then his Comics was were tanking
because science fiction was becoming
more popular and so DC canceled his
title in 19 1956 they introduced a new
Flash named Barry Allen and you know
what Jay Garrick fans said Barry Allen
sucks Barry Allen doesn't need doesn't
need be the flash Barry Allen is
absolute trash I hate Barry Allen give
me Jay Garrick back now Barry Allen
sales did good for a little while but
then they started slumping off and so
what did DC do in 1961 they wrote flash
of Two Worlds and said here's Jay
Garrick now and then the sales the the
sales of The Flash comics started going
back up again because now Jay Garrick
fans got Jay in Justice Society of
America and they had wall or they had
Barry Allen so now they had the best of
both worlds they could just kind of pick
and choose which one they wanted to read
this lasted for 19 years until 198 85
when Barry Allen died in crisis UND
definite Earth and Wally West who up
until that point had been a sidekick was
Now The Flash and you know what Barry
Allen fans said Wally West sucks Wally
West is trash Wally West does not need
to be the flash now this lasted almost
20 years or it lasted a little bit
longer than that actually lasted until
2011 you know when Barry Allen was the
flash again the main Flash the only
flash with the new 52 and you know what
Wally West fan said
so it's not like it's something brand
new it's not like it's something that's
just now happening it's something that's
been around this entire time but comic
storian had a damn good point when he
said here's the issue Iron Man fans sit
down and they say yes Tony Stark's done
everything Tony Stark found out he had a
long lost brother Tony Stark found out
he was adopted and met his biological
mom Tony Stark's been part of the
Guardians of the Galaxy Tony Stark's
pissed off the whole superhero community
in Civil War Tony Stark decided to be a
dick just for the sake of being a dick
and Superior Iron Man Tony Stark has suc
comeb to alcoholism and lost everything
and demon in a bottle Tony Stark has
done it all so they say yeah sure okay
there's only so much you can do with a
Tony Stark story but don't just suddenly
get rid of him make something new that's
literally your job as a comic Creator is
not to rehash old stuff but to make good
stuff make new stuff use your
imagination that's that's what you're
paid to do that's what we as comic book
readers buy comics 4 is new things if
that wasn't the case we'd all just be
reading crisis on infinite Earth over
and over and over again in DC Comics
instead we get new and we get incredible
and we get Amazing Stories and Ben has
did a great job with Iron Man and he's
kind of you know coming back around
again but the reason why fans are upset
is because they sit down and they say
but I've been reading Tony Stark forever
like I've been reading him for so long I
love Tony Stark I want to see Tony Stark
come back and even if he can't just let
me kind of you know say bye man it's
been real don't just make me read Riri
Williams because I don't know her
character I don't know anything about
her I don't know I can't relate to her
you know there's nothing about her that
I find interesting I find Tony Stark
interesting but I don't find her
interesting and so because of that now
they're like well why am I going to read
Iron Man if if Tony slark's not there
they don't have a reason to not only
that they feel cheated they feel like
Marvel's coming along and saying you
need to read this all right this is the
only thing you're you don't have any
options here you don't have any choices
name me the last time you were okay with
somebody coming along and telling you
you didn't have a choice in a situation
no one's ever okay with that it's just
the way people are but it's like that
with with every facet of comic books you
know it's not a racial thing Jane Foster
became Thor and you know what Odin Sun
fan said the same thing that Barry Allen
fans said when Wally West became the
Flash oh Jane Foster sucks Jane Foster's
trash Jane Foster does not need to be
Thor I've been reading Odin's son since
before Ragnarok or maybe there were some
people that read Thor Ragnarok were like
damn man Thor is dead and then J Michael
shinski picked up the title brought Thor
back they watched him recreate Asgard
they watched him find the spiritual
Essences of all the asgardians return
them to the normal bodies they they read
all that stuff as it all just kind of
progressed and then suddenly Odin son's
gone and Jane Foster's Thor and they
felt cheated and they felt angry because
they felt like all that time and money
all that energy had been invested was
just basically thrown away but comic
storan had a great point when he said
this only goes so far diversity is not
an inherently bad thing what you have to
do is give people choices you have to
sit a person down and say Here's two
titles here's Tony Stark and here's rby
Williams pick which one you want now in
my mind for me if Marvel sat me down and
said hey Rob here's a Riri Williams Iron
Man title and here's a Tony Stark Iron
Man title which one do you want to read
I'm reading Riri Williams because
there's nothing in that comic book they
can tell me that I probably haven't seen
before in some form or fashion maybe
they can and if I do I'll just kind of
skim through it but my interest will be
in ruy Williams I will read that from
front to back and take my time so it's
it's not a racial thing amadas Cho you
know it's really just about the fact
that people become invested in
characters they become attached to those
characters they watched the characters
grow they watched the Mythos grow Mark
Wade introduced the speed force Mark
Wade basically established the
chronological order of speedsters talked
about how it all came into existence how
it all happened how speedsters got their
powers now Jeff John's changed a lot of
that when he took over the flash title
but the fact remains that fans were
there when they were learning how the
speed force functions that with Speeders
it's not because they were just D with
chemicals one day and they could run
super fast there's this you know
enigmatic energy force out there that
they draw all their speed from and when
they die they merge with it that's their
Heaven that's their afterlife it was it
was great storytelling and they were
there for all that and then now they're
suddenly being told no no no no that's
not there anymore you know and so
because of that this is why diversity is
really kind of a big thing is because
it's not fans who are inherently against
comic book changes because of because of
race and so I don't really like the
notion of diversity because what
diversity indicates is that fans are
against these characters because of
their because of their minorities
they're against these characters because
they're black or because you know
they're of of Asian orientation you know
because they're they're a woman or
something like that that's stupid
they're against this change because the
characters that they know in love are
suddenly just not there anymore as it
stands right now in Marvel Comics Peter
Parker is the last man standing he's the
last guy who Spider-Man and you know why
he's still Spider-Man because there's a
movie with him coming out in July so
it's it's just one of those weird things
I
mean stop referring to comic book fans
as racist because they're against
diversity comic book fans are just like
anybody else comic book fans are like
NFL fans if somebody had been following
the Chicago Bears for years and years
and years and years I don't even know if
they're a team anymore but they've been
following the Chicago Bears forever and
then suddenly the Bears uprooted and
went to a different city they'd feel
betrayed because they were loyal fans
they were there through thick and thin
it's just like anything else it's just
like anything that people get attached
to they don't want to see it change not
because they're adverse to change but
because they love the character that
they have because they they're attached
to that character they don't want to see
it go away but anyway guys uh I'm going
to go ahead and bring this video to an
end I just want to kind of get my two
cents out there um I was you know um I
haven't looked at the comments on comic
story's video I imagine there might be
some kind of people who were detractors
or or something like that but in truth I
stand with with Benny on this one I mean
I stand with comic story and I think
he's right you know diversity is not a
bad thing in and of itself it becomes a
bad thing when you don't give people a
choice but to read diversity give people
a choice let them choose what they want
to read let them choose stories they
like and stories that they don't like
let them stick with the characters that
they know and love after all that's why
DC rebirth is crushing Marvel you know
if the diversity of initiative of Marvel
Comics was so great then why are their
Comics selling so poorly in any event
guys we're going to bring this video to
an end and I will catch you all later
peace
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