Greenomics Ep. 7 | Sustainability Trends to Watch for in 2024

Summary

El podcast 'Greenomic' de Oxford Economics explora la relación entre el clima, la naturaleza y la economía global. En este episodio, la anfitriona Sarah Nelson y un panel de expertos analizan las tendencias de sostenibilidad para 2024 en política, tecnología y negocios. Se discuten las elecciones de 2024 y su impacto en la política climática, destacando la importancia de los Estados Unidos. Se abordan tecnologías de bajo carbono, como vehículos eléctricos y turbinas eólicas, y se exploran avances en industrias pesadas como el cemento y el acero. Además, se destaca la importancia de la cooperación internacional y la transición hacia prácticas sostenibles en las empresas, con un enfoque en la regulación y la discusión de ESG. Los invitados destacan la necesidad de liderazgo mundial comprometido con la sostenibilidad y la transición hacia una economía verde.

Takeaways

• 🌍 **Relaciones Clima-Economía**: El podcast 'Greenomic' explora las complejas relaciones entre el clima, la naturaleza y la economía global.
• 📈 **Record Climático 2023**: Se menciona que 2023 rompió varios records climáticos, incluyendo la temperatura global media más alta desde que se tienen registros.
• 🔥 **Política y Cambio Climático**: Se destaca la importancia de las elecciones de 2024 en países clave como EU, Reino Unido, Estados Unidos, India e Indonesia, y cómo podrían afectar la trayectoria climática.
• 🇺🇸 **Elecciones en EE.UU.**: Se discute la posibilidad de que si Donald Trump gana las elecciones, podría haber cambios significativos en las políticas climáticas, incluyendo la posible renuncia al Acuerdo de París.
• 🇬🇧 **Elecciones en el Reino Unido**: Se habla sobre la diferencia entre los conservadores y el Partido Laborista en cuanto a sus planes para las políticas climáticas.
• 🇪🇺 **EU y Política Climática**: Se menciona que las elecciones al Parlamento Europeo en junio determinarán la política climática de la UE en los próximos cinco años.
• 🏭 **Industrias Pesadas y Tecnología**: Se aborda la necesidad de tecnologías de bajo carbono para alcanzar el Cero Neto, y se exploran las opciones para la industria pesada, incluyendo el acero y el cemento.
• 🔋 **Tecnología de Baterías**: Se expresa la esperanza de que en 2024 las baterías penetren en el mercado para abordar necesidades de calor industrial.
• 💼 **Desafíos Empresariales**: Se destaca la importancia de la colaboración entre departamentos y la responsabilidad de las empresas por el rendimiento ambiental de su cadena de suministro.
• 📊 **Reporte de CSG**: Se aborda la importancia de la nueva Directiva de Informe de Sostenibilidad Corporativa de la UE y cómo cambiará la forma en que las empresas operan.
• ✅ **Éxito en 2024**: Se define el éxito para 2024 como la preparación para las divulgaciones SG obligatorias, la mejora en la recopilación de datos y la gobernanza, y el progreso en la descarbonización de la electricidad y los materiales clave.

Q & A

¿Qué es el podcast 'Greenomic' y qué trata?

Greenomic es un podcast de Oxford Economics que explora las complejas relaciones entre el clima, la naturaleza y nuestra economía global. En él, se analizan aspectos de sostenibilidad y se discute lo que esto significa para los negocios en la economía actual.

¿Qué registros climáticos se打破了 en 2023?

En 2023 se打破了 varios registros climáticos, incluyendo la temperatura global promedio más alta desde que se tienen registros, que fue de casi 1.5° C por encima de los promedios preindustriales.

¿Qué temas de sostenibilidad son relevantes para seguir en 2024 según el podcast?

Los temas de sostenibilidad relevantes para 2024 incluyen la política, la tecnología y los negocios, con un enfoque en las elecciones de varios países, los avances en tecnologías bajas en emisiones y las regulaciones y marcos industriales emergentes.

¿Cómo podría afectar la elección de Donald Trump a las políticas climáticas de los Estados Unidos?

Si Donald Trump gana una segunda tanda, podría haber cambios significativos en las políticas, con la posible renuncia a los Acuerdos de París y el intento de desmantelar regulaciones ambientales emitidas por la Administración de Biden.

¿Cuáles son las expectativas para las políticas climáticas en el Reino Unido y la Unión Europea en 2024?

En el Reino Unido, si el partido Laborista gana, podría haber inversiones en proyectos verdes. En la UE, las elecciones a la Parlamento Europeo en junio determinarán la política climática de la UE en los próximos cinco años, con la posibilidad de aumentar la ambición climática.

¿Por qué son importantes las elecciones a nivel mundial para la lucha contra el cambio climático?

Las elecciones determinan a algunos de los líderes más poderosos del mundo en los próximos cinco a seis años, período crítico para abordar el cambio climático. Además, la cooperación internacional y la presión de pares son fundamentales para mantener la ambición y la acción climática.

¿Qué avances tecnológicos son cruciales para alcanzar el Cero Net en emisiones?

Las tecnologías de bajo carbono son fundamentales para alcanzar el Cero Net, incluyendo avances en sectores tradicionales como la industria del acero y el cemento, así como tecnologías más innovadoras como la captura y almacenamiento de carbono (CCS) y la eletrólisis.

¿Qué desafíos enfrentan las empresas en términos de sostenibilidad en 2024?

Las empresas enfrentan desafíos como la adaptación a nuevas regulaciones de sostenibilidad, la mejora de la comunicación y colaboración interna y la gestión de la cadena de suministro para mejorar la sostenibilidad a lo largo de toda la cadena de valor.

¿Qué cambios se esperan en la industria del cemento y acero para reducir sus emisiones de CO2?

Se esperan cambios en la industria del cemento y acero, como la sustitución de clinker con cal y yeso para reducir emisiones, y el uso de tecnologías de reducción directa de hierro (DRI) y eletrólisis para producir acero con menor impacto ambiental.

¿Qué papel juegan las regulaciones gubernamentales en la promoción de la sostenibilidad empresarial?

Las regulaciones gubernamentales, como la Directiva de Informe de Sostenibilidad Corporativa de la UE, son clave para promover la sostenibilidad empresarial, estableciendo estándares auditables para la información no financiera y fomentando la colaboración entre departamentos y la integración de la sostenibilidad en la toma de decisiones empresariales.

¿Qué aspectos de la estrategia de sostenibilidad están en la mira de las empresas para 2024?

Las empresas están enfocadas en la preparación para las divulgaciones SG obligatorias, la construcción de fundamentos de recopilación y reporte de datos, la estructuración de sistemas de gobernanza para temas ESG, y el fortalecimiento de la cadena de suministro para mejorar la sostenibilidad a lo largo de toda la cadena de valor.

Outlines

00:00

🌏 Política y Cambio Climático: Elecciones y Políticas Sostenibles

El primer tema aborda la política y su impacto en la sostenibilidad. Se discute cómo las elecciones de 2024 en países clave, como EU, Reino Unido, India e Indonesia, podrían afectar la trayectoria climática y las políticas ambientales. Se destaca la importancia de las decisiones políticas en la lucha contra el cambio climático y cómo los resultados electorales pueden cambiar los esfuerzos por alcanzar la neutralidad de carbono.

05:01

🚀 Tecnologías Bajas en Emisiones: Progresos en la Industria Pesada

Se exploran las tecnologías para alcanzar la neutralidad de carbono, con un enfoque en las industrias pesadas. Se mencionan métodos como el uso de acero reciclado, tecnologías de reducción directa de hierro (DRI) y el potencial de la eletrólisis en la industria del acero. Para el cemento, se discuten soluciones como la sustitución de clinker con cal y yeso, y la captura y almacenamiento de carbono (CCS). Además, se destaca la importancia de la innovación tecnológica para la producción de cemento y la industria química.

10:01

🌱 Innovaciones Tecnológicas: Retos y Oportunidades

Se discute la combinación de tecnologías exóticas y reaprovechamiento de tecnologías de otros sectores para la innovación en la industria. Se destaca la importancia de la eficiencia energética y la reducción de emisiones en la producción de bienes esenciales como el acero y el cemento. Además, se mencionan avances en la generación de vapor a partir de ladrillos cerámicos y la necesidad de soluciones para la industria química, especialmente en la producción de plásticos.

15:02

📊 Desafíos y Estrategias Empresariales Sostenibles

Se refleja sobre los desafíos y tendencias en los negocios sostenibles en 2023, destacando la importancia de la reporting de emisiones de alcance 3 y la expansión de estrategias ambientales hacia aspectos como la biodiversidad y el agua. Se aborda la necesidad de compromisos de neutralidad de carbono y la importancia de la reducción de emisiones y la consideración de opciones de eliminación de carbono.

20:04

🔍 Responsabilidad y Transparencia en la Cadena de Suministro

Se discute la importancia de la responsabilidad y transparencia en la cadena de suministro, con un enfoque en la necesidad de colaboración entre departamentos y la integración de la sostenibilidad en la operación diaria de las empresas. Se destaca la importancia de la Directiva de Informe de Sostenibilidad Corporativa (CSRD) de la UE y el concepto de materialidad doble, así como la expectativa de un mayor intercambio de datos en la cadena de suministro para rastrear el progreso en la sostenibilidad.

25:06

🌟 Progresos Esperados en Sostenibilidad Corporativa

Se establecen las expectativas para un 2024 exitoso en términos de sostenibilidad corporativa, incluyendo la preparación para las divulgaciones SG obligatorias, la creación de estructuras de recopilación y reporte de datos, y la mejora en la capacidad de las empresas para involucrar a un mayor número de proveedores de manera cuantitativa. Se espera un progreso en la descarbonización de las redes eléctricas y en la reducción de emisiones en sectores clave como el acero, el aluminio, los plásticos y los electrónicos.

Keywords

💡Cambio climático

El cambio climático es un fenómeno ambiental que implica un aumento en la temperatura promedio global de la Tierra, causado principalmente por la emisión de gases de efecto invernadero. En el video, se discute cómo los registros climáticos de 2023 fueron打破 ('smashed') y se abordan las implicaciones políticas y tecnológicas para la sostenibilidad y la lucha contra el cambio climático.

💡Transición verde

La transición verde se refiere al proceso de transformación hacia una economía y una sociedad más sostenibles, reduciendo la huella de carbono y adoptando prácticas y tecnologías amigables con el medio ambiente. El podcast explora cómo los cambios políticos y tecnológicos afectan esta transición.

💡Elecciones políticas

Las elecciones políticas son eventos cruciales que determinan el rumbo de las políticas gubernamentales, incluyendo那些有关气候和可持终性 ('climate and sustainability') 的政策。El video destaca la importancia de las elecciones en 2024 en varios países, y cómo podrían afectar la trayectoria climática y la inversión en proyectos verdes.

💡Tecnologías de baja emisividad de carbono

Estas tecnologías son fundamentales para alcanzar objetivos de cero emisiones netas y son un tema central en el video. Se discute el progreso en tecnologías como los vehículos eléctricos, turbinas eólicas y la captura y almacenamiento de carbono, así como en sectores menos conocidos como la industria del cemento y el acero.

💡Industrias pesadas

Las industrias pesadas, como la producción de cemento y acero, son responsables de una parte significativa de las emisiones de CO2 globales. El video explora las opciones para reducir estas emisiones, incluyendo el reciclaje de acero y la sustitución de clinker en la fabricación de cemento.

💡Captura y almacenamiento de carbono (CCS)

La CCS es una tecnología que captura dióxido de carbono producido por la combustión de combustibles fósiles y lo almacena para evitar su liberación al ambiente. Se menciona en el contexto de la industria del acero y el cemento como una opción para reducir sus emisiones.

💡Estrategias de neutralización de carbono

Las estrategias de neutralización de carbono implican la compensación de emisiones de gases de efecto invernadero a través de la implementación de prácticas que absorben CO2, como la plantación de árboles o el uso de tecnologías de remoción de carbono. Se discute cómo las empresas están comenzando a considerar estas estrategias como parte de sus compromisos de cero emisiones netas.

💡Valor cadena

El valor cadena hace referencia a todos los procesos involucrados en la producción de un bien o servicio, desde la extracción de materias primas hasta el consumo final. El video destaca la importancia de la colaboración a lo largo del valor cadena para mejorar la sostenibilidad y reducir las emisiones de gases de efecto invernadero (también conocidas como emisiones de alcance 3).

💡Directiva de informes de sostenibilidad corporativa (CSRD)

La CSRD es una propuesta de ley de la UE que busca estandarizar y mejorar la información que las empresas proporcionan sobre sus prácticas de sostenibilidad. El video discute cómo esta directiva puede influir en la forma en que las empresas operan y se comunican sus esfuerzos de sostenibilidad.

💡Biodiversidad

La biodiversidad se refiere a la variedad de vida en la Tierra, incluyendo la diversidad de especies, hábitats y ecosistemas. El video aborda la importancia de considerar la biodiversidad en las estrategias sostenibles de las empresas y cómo la pérdida de biodiversidad puede afectar la capacidad de los negocios para funcionar en el futuro.

💡Estrategias de reducción de emisiones

Las estrategias de reducción de emisiones se centran en la reducción de las emisiones de gases de efecto invernadero. El video destaca la importancia de estas estrategias para cumplir con los objetivos de cero emisiones netas y cómo las empresas están teniendo que adaptar sus planes para incluir la remoción de carbono.

Highlights

2023 saw record-breaking climate events, including the highest global average temperature since records began.

Significant progress was made at COP, with numerous initiatives, policies, and regulations announced and enacted.

The US, UK, EU, India, and Indonesia are among the large emitters with elections in 2024 that could impact climate policy.

If Donald Trump wins a second term in the US, there could be a withdrawal from the Paris Agreement and rollback of environmental regulations.

The UK's potential election could see a shift in climate policy, with the Labour party intending to fully decarbonize electricity by 2030.

EU Parliament elections in June will determine EU climate policy for the next 5 years, possibly setting a 2040 emissions target.

India's elections are not expected to change climate policy significantly, as the BJP and Modi government are likely to continue.

Indonesian presidential candidates have pledged to push for more progress in tackling the climate crisis.

The outcome of elections can be unpredictable in terms of their impact on climate policy.

Elections are crucial for determining powerful leaders who can influence the path to Net Zero goals.

International cooperation is key in the fight against climate change, requiring aligned collective goals and shared responsibility.

Low carbon technologies are critical for reaching Net Zero, but progress in heavy industries like cement and steel is crucial.

Technological innovation in heavy industries includes both exotic technologies and repurposing from other sectors.

Dr. Chris Bai highlights the potential of batteries and carbon capture and storage (CCS) technologies in 2024.

Scope 3 emissions and value chain reporting have become a focus for companies, moving beyond just internal operations.

The EU's Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive (CSRD) will bring significant changes to non-financial reporting.

Data exchange across value chains is expected to increase in 2024, with a focus on capturing progress in emissions reductions.

A successful 2024 in corporate sustainability would involve readiness for mandatory ESG disclosures and improved data collection.

Transcripts

[Music]

welcome to greenomic a podcast from

Oxford economics where we delve into the

complex relationships between climate

nature and our global economy I'm your

host Sarah Nelson and the economics and

sustainability team here at Oxford

economics and together we'll be

navigating the changing landscape of the

green transition each month we will be

joined by a panel of experts to discuss

one aspect of sustainability and unpack

what it means for businesses in today's

economy 2023 smashed a lot of climate

records we had the highest global

average temperature since records began

at almost 1.5° C above pre-industrial

averages we also had the biggest ever

cop with some notable progress made and

saw lots of initiatives policies and

regulations announced and

enacted now it's time to look towards

2024 I spoke to three guests about the

sustainability Trends to keep up with

this year across politics technology and

business the First theme that we're

going to look at today is politics 2024

brings a huge number of Elections and

with it a high potential for political

change joining me to discuss what that

might mean for sustainability is beatric

tanhan Bayer is a senior Economist and

our climate scenarios and modeling team

and has a finger on the pulse of how

politics might affect our climate

trajectory be thank you for joining me

thanks for having me back so a couple of

elections coming up this year what do

you think uh will be the most impactful

elections in 2024 yeah it's it's a big

year um so we have large emitters like

the US countries in the global North

like the UK and the EU and countries in

the South like India and Indonesia so in

the US Donald Trump is the Republican

front runner and if he wins a second

term there would be significant shifts

in policies the United States would

probably exit the Paris agreement again

and Trump might try to roll back

environmental regulations that the Biden

Administration issued and Congress might

also cut off climate spending in last

year's inflation reduction act however

the odds are that the tax credits for

the clean energy investment in the ira

would remain because these are quite

difficult to end or scale back now if

Biden wins he would likely support

climate initiatives but how successful

he would be in passing these initiatives

would depend on who controls the house

and the Senate

now across the pond we have the UK who

might have an election this year and

there's a bit of a gap between the

conservatives who are likely to dial

back climate policies and labor who

still have plans to invest in a large

sum of green projects so labor still

intends to fully decarbonize electricity

by 2030 so this would still require some

investment now we also have the EU and

voters will head to the poll in June to

elect the next EU

Parliament and this will determine EU

climate policy in the next 5 years the

last few years saw climate ambition

increase and the next year will be all

about seeing this true and perhaps

raising ambition so for example this

would be like deciding what the 2040

emissions Target should

be we also have important elections in

India and Indonesia and these are both

large economies big populations and top

emitters India is actually one of the

top emitters in the world following the

US and China but in India elections are

probably not going to change climate

policy they because we expect the BJP

and Modi government to continue now even

though the contesting parties haven't

released a formal stance climate

policies might not actually be top of

mind for India because at their

development level there are a lot of

other issues to talk about so climate

might actually take a backseat here um

in Indonesia which is another big one

particularly with emissions from land

use and

agriculture fortunately all candidates

in the country for presidency have vowed

to push for more progress in tackling

the climate crisis

so they generally believe the country

should shift away from fossil fuels

which is really good on a whole climate

might necessarily be the biggest concern

for all elections but it's entered most

conversations have a big impact on

climate policy and the way

forward so are there any of those

elections that you mentioned that you're

particularly concerned about from a

climate perspective yeah um so for from

all of these elections the most high

stakes one might be the US election it's

just that the dividing lines on climate

are simply bigger in the US um so and

they're also the world's second biggest

polluter and there's a big chance many

of the steps forward might be reversed

and this would not be good for morale or

for getting things done and if you

compare that with the UK who might go

into an election while the conservatives

are thinking of dialing back ambition

the direction of travel is still the

same and the country still hopes to

reach Net Zero so that's a big big

difference so a good caveat to note is

that these elections are not that good

at predicting what what will happen in

climate policy so for example in the

Brazil election of the Lula the Silva

where he won over

bolsonaro whose term weakened

Environmental Protection policies Lula's

win signaled a change in Direction but

so far they've really struggled to go

strong on climate and it looks like

they'll be going into the oil business

and on the other hand people were

worried that in Argentina they elected a

candidate who was skeptical on climate

but he introduced a cap and trade system

this year so it's really the elections

really don't necessarily signal the

direction climate climate policy would

take but it's always like um it'll

always be like a nice surprise

so I mean like you say it's hard to

predict but how important is this year

in these elections

for our Net Zero

goals well these elections will

determine some of the world's most

powerful leaders in the next five to six

years depending on the term and these

years are crucial because within that

time span we approach 2030 and 2030 and

2050 are important years in our climate

calendar so to speak because we expect

the carbon budget to run out around that

time so we need Leaders with the same

sense of urgency as we do now these

elections are also important because

some of the most important work we do in

our fight against climate change will be

done at the national level so this means

getting better at implementing

commitments so the cops are there to

provide Direction but the real work

begins at home now if we have a say a

climate denier leading one of the

biggest economies with a biggest source

of emissions it would be difficult to

reach a collective goal and I guess

another way politics influence climate

action is that it's all about

consistency in the messaging so many of

the Investments we need for climate are

long-term Investments they have a

long-term investment Horizon so ideally

for this to happen policies need to be

stable and if we don't want a lot of

uncertainty in terms of the business

environment so for example we don't want

subsidies and tax breaks to suddenly

reverse if a if a car manufacturer

invests in developing EVS they don't

want the subsidies that make these EVS

more competitive to go away so electing

members of government to support climate

Ambitions reduces kind of uncertainty

and it can help with the

transition and what about International

cooperation well it's important that we

work together because we work together

we get things done faster um

International cooperation is difficult

when everyone's interests are different

and they do not align let alone they're

contrary to one another so if we elect

governments that do not believe in this

cost it'll be difficult to like raise

ambition and it might even set us back

but um being aligned in our Collective

goals is important because we keep each

other in check so the ndcs or the

nationally determined contributions are

self-determined goals but it's the

pressure from our peers that keep us in

line so it's like other countries act to

Ser as a check against other countries

so it's good that we're all thinking

same thing and another reason why

International cooperation is important

to do is um for climate Finance so we

need everyone to mobilize the funds we

need for the transition particularly to

help developing countries the financing

that we have so far is limited and we

need to basically pull our resources to

make sure that it us efficiently and

effectively we need public and private

Capital to move towards Greener projects

and we need the larger and wealthier

economies to contribute and to buy in

and they need to incentivize investment

in the necessary sectors but in general

the fight against climate change is um I

consider a group effort so emissions in

one country is the same as emissions in

another country it all goes to the same

place it all pulls together

so this is a global problem and we have

a shared Global responsibility to answer

it and it will definitely need a global

effort and presumably like-minded global

leaders exactly well quite a year ahead

um and looking forward to checking in at

the end of the year to see how that's

all gone thank you very much for joining

me bear it's been really interesting to

talk thanks our second theme today is

technology low carbon technologies will

be critical for reaching Net Zero and

rightly get a lot of attention as a

result so but some of the most touted

Technologies remain elusive I'm joined

today by Dr Chris Bai to find out where

the biggest progress might be made in

2024 Chris is an expert in the

Technologies and policies for achieving

sustainable energy systems he leads

research with the Deep decarbonization

Pathways project at Simon Fraser and

Columbia universities and was a lead

author on the most recent ipcc

assessment report Chris

thank you for joining me my

pleasure so as I mentioned a lot of the

decarbonization Technologies are

headline grabbing I'm thinking electric

vehicles wind turbines carbon capture

and storage but a big chunk of the

emissions reduction will come in the

less sexy heavy Industries like cement

and steel Chris I believe this is your

area of expertise so what are the

technologies that show the greatest

promise for decarbonizing heavy

Industries that's a great question uh

about a third 30% of global CO2

emissions come from heavy Industries so

that's steel cement chemicals and other

heat um all three of those have you know

right up front if we're just a little

bit if we're a little bit more careful

about how we use them we use about 20 to

30% of all more than we really should

have all 30 if we just think about those

the initial design so that's the kind of

first 20 30% we look for but each of

them also has a fairly simple op option

with steel it's just using more SEC

doing more secondary recycled steel and

that means more carefully sorting the

scrap we have putting a little extra

fresh iron in with it and then making as

much steel as we can in electric art

furnaces but beyond that we get into

much much more exotic Technologies we

have a couple of commercial options

today uh it's a technology developed in

the 1970s called direct reduced iron um

it requires um the way it's done today

is made we use methane or coal to create

a Singas of hydrogen and carbon monoxide

the hydrogen takes away most of the

oxygen and iron ore leaving the

elemental iron which is where most of

the emissions come from um and then the

carbon monoxide takes provides much of

the heat but there are options to do

entirely hydrogen-based drri making uh

and you know that that's the pathway

most of the European steel makers are on

right now uh we've talked about applying

ccs to to Steel for about 30 or 40 years

it really it hasn't go gone uh anywhere

after drri we're probably looking at

electrolysis Technologies where we

directly use electricity to take oxygen

off off of iron or leaving Elemental

iron there's several Technologies to do

this several companies doing this on

both sides of the Atlantic and and in

China and I think one of them is going

to surprise us sooner or later they

manage to get they manage to get to a

pilot scale and then to a commercial

scale cement it's again there are cheap

options we can eliminate about half the

emissions by substituting what we could

clinker is the stuff that it's the main

component of cement which holds together

sand and concrete which is the glue that

holds concrete together think of Rice

Krispie squares where the marshmallows

hold the Rice Krispies together um it

most of the emissions are in the cement

and they're in the clinker making and we

can substitute about half that clinker

with ground Limestone and Cal what we

call caline Clays and that could cut

emissions in half by 2030 using it it

meets building codes today but we just

have to build the equip and find the

Clays and what have you um after that

you start needing car carbon capture and

storage on the back end we've got a

couple plan there's one should be

finished in Norway this year 60% capture

um there's a couple that are at much

higher capture rates that should be done

by about 20 25 2026 they double the cost

of making clinker but they only add a

couple of percent to you know at you

know to the concrete and the cost of

making a building U and that's something

that needs to that needs to move quicker

in the wings we have more exotic

Technologies to make cement so there

Sublime that uses electricity to make

the make the the key mineral that we

need and brimstone which uses acid

leeching to get out the minerals we need

to make cement and those two there's

those two are probably the most public

facing technology companies right now

but there are a couple of European I

think Asian companies working on this as

well one of the and in 2023 one of the

things that kind of jumped out Out

jumped out and surprised everyone is we

thought that lower temperature heat was

going to be really expensive so Steam

for food processing textiles what have

you um but a couple of tech companies an

Tor and I believe Rondo in the US and I

think there other companies as well they

just basically use ex bricks ceramic

bricks and you heat them with excess

solar and wind electricity when it's

available and then you run a a heat

transfer fluid through to get the heat

out and that gives you as much Steam and

often uh you know the the the the the

the higher temperatures that you need to

do CH chemistry and what have you so

those those are two things that we're

watching Pretty carefully probably the

sector that's going to be hardest is

chem is chemicals there are seven big

feed stock chemicals that make over that

are the subcomponents for making over a

100,000 different chemicals there you

know in most societies only need so much

steel only need so much cement only need

so much heat but what we don't seem to

satiate on is chemicals especially

Plastics we just use more and more of

um the key to doing that is to

decarbonize the the the the carbon

hydrogen oxygen that goes into those

Plastics but we're a bit of a ways away

from that and it's going to be quite

expensive to do it we know how to do it

in the lab but we don't know how to do

it commercially so if someone's got some

bright ideas out there about how to make

ethylene how to make ethylene at room

temperature with non-toxic materials

they could probably build a business out

of

that I think one of the really

interesting things about what you've

just said is that there the sort of

technological innovation in these sector

seem to be a combination of the Exotic

Technologies and the kind of repurpose

Technologies from other sectors and and

historical context which I think is

fascinating are there any Technologies

or particular Industries or sub sectors

that you think are on the cusp of major

progress in

20124 uh I really hope um that the

batteries come along in 2024 we see

those heading into the marketplace

because over 30% of our industrial heat

needs is you know roughly about 100

degrees Celsius just for steam a little

bit above that and they're perfect for

that so if we started seeing those

penetrate the market that could really

make our lives simpler using uh you know

off PE off peak electricity I really

hope we see CCS on cement plants this

year

operating um I hope we with steel I want

to we want to see some final investment

decisions on more primary facilities um

I'd love to see Boston medals in the

states actually get its first you know

pilot plant off the ground in Brazil um

those those are the things I'm looking

for but I'm always happy to see upside

surprises well we will check back with

it you in December to see how your

predictions have panned out so no

pressure uh but thank you very much for

joining me Chris and we'll touch base

later in the year my pleasure Sarah

finally return to business 2023 saw

several major pieces of Regulation come

into Force along with lots of new

Frameworks and Industry groups but we

also saw a push back against ESG from

some Corners I have Dr Anna Gonzalez

Hernandez on the phone to discuss what's

on the cars for businesses in 2024 Anna

is director of sustainability at Emison

where his she has been leading the

company's Net Zero strategy and

coordinating their ESG disclosures for

the past 3 years Anna thank you for

joining me happy to join you on the show

today reflecting on 2023 what do you

think was the biggest Trend or challenge

in sustainable business over the last

year I think as as most sustainability

professionals would uh would know I

think it's a little hard to to pick a

few uh but I I'd say that uh in the

topic of greenhouse gas emissions

specifically there's been a shift around

the world I think towards scope three so

our our value chain reporting um in our

case uh you know we we started our

journey in 2022 with with our Net Zero

value chain emissions that were set and

so we've been calculating and modeling

our scope 3 emissions now for a number

of years um which I think is what most

companies have been doing um but I think

initially a lot of the focus had been on

driving actual tangible improvements in

uh company's own facilities whereas now

everyone is putting a lot more effort

intentionally into engaging their value

chain Partners um to build capacity in

their supply chain um to help them

improve their data um and sharing best

practices because at the end of the day

we all have to show progress across our

entire value chains if we want to meet

our our targets so I think that kind of

scope three uh and um kind of outward

focused um efforts have been um

expanding over the past year for most

companies um I think also there's been a

shift towards um thinking more about the

impact that corporations have on

biodiversity and and uh vice versa you

know how how biodiversity and and nature

um impact um our ability to do business

in the future um and I think more

broadly uh the broadening of the scope

of environmental strategies in companies

I think a lot of us started very focused

on emissions and energy perhaps looking

at waste in our own operations too and

now we're

exploring the relevance of other

environmental aspects um such as water

and and biodiversity which um gets a lot

more uh complicated frankly um and I

think the last thing maybe is is the

focus around uh the net in Net Zero

commitments um I think at least in our

case but I think for many companies it's

it's the same um and increasingly more

so uh we are focused on reductions um at

first uh but we're having to get our

heads around around what carbon removal

um means and the options that are

available out there for us because even

if it's something that we will have to

be working on in the next couple of

years um we do need to start making

upfront um commitments now uh to ensure

that there's uh Supply uh in the in the

next couple of years so I think most of

us are now having to Think Through what

our neutralization strategies may look

like it sounds like I mean that shift

from scope one and two to scope three

three and looking at a broader nature

challenges um along with the kind of

offsetting uh question itself it sounds

like you know it's getting more and more

difficult or these are are bigger and

broader and more complicated challenges

so what do you see as the key priorities

going

forward so I I think I I would like to

focus on on three things I think going

into a topic that you've discussed here

before uh related to disclosures um it's

a very predictable and unsurprising

topic I think for for people in our

field um but you know more specifically

eu's the eu's corporate sustainability

reporting directive which is the first

and I think most comprehensive version

of this that companies are facing today

um you know it brings non-financial

reporting to the same auditable level as

financial reporting and it's a

gargantuan task for most companies to to

even start thinking about how it's going

to be imp implemented um I think in the

case of csrd to um the concept of double

materiality is providing companies with

A New Perspective um by forcing them to

think about the impact in multiple

directions um not just in terms of how

ESG topics impact a company's financial

performance but also how a company

impacts ESG um and I think you know for

for my own sanity maybe I've had to keep

reminding myself about the end goal uh

of these regulations and what they're

trying to drive towards and not the

immediate task that we have at hand in

the next 12 months to get ready for this

reporting which for us will be in 2026

given that we're not EU listed um and

you know I I think thinking that the

impact of these disclosure policies is

really in how they will change how

companies operate they'll have to think

about targets actual strategies um and

and the hope is that even though the the

regulations are on Communications and

external reporting um it'll have a

ripple effect on on how on how companies

actually operate and and how they think

about their their future and and and

their role in in this space so I I think

these are are really important even

though a lot of us are very

frustrated um with having to think about

how we're going to implement them um and

related to that the second point I think

what csrd and ESG disclosures in general

are triggering to is an increased

collaboration across

departments and I I think within the

sustainability profession we've always

known that sustainability is a cross

functional and

transformational um issue um but I think

today we are starting to see that partly

thanks to these ESG Broad regul ations

um sustainability is permeating other

departments that maybe to date haven't

been as impacted or or engaged um

sustainability teams and are bigger and

better integrated in into organizations

than they used to be even two years ago

um but I think regulations are really

pushing um other departments like

Finance internal audit legal it Human

Resources um investor relations uh to

really have to fly information if we

want to succeed in this um um and I'd

say maybe the the third and last topic

um would be touching on on supply chain

and um being held accountable for our

supply chain CSG performance which in a

way relates back to disclosure again

because the EU is is also forcing

companies to report on their entire

value chain efforts and not just our own

um and to think about materiality across

our entire value chain and not just our

four walls um and I think you know going

back to what I was

saying earlier we we have a lot of

companies have started reporting on

scope 3 emissions but these have been

based on models um on industry average

data um which in some cases remain um

you know not really representative of

what your supply chain looks like but

also you know as years pass and we have

to all show progress on our targets we

have to really work with our suppliers

to make sure we can capture their

progress in our numbers and so I think

in 2024 there's going to be a lot more

data exchange across value chains um I'm

kind of hopeful that the data exchange

will also not just be in One Direction

Where suppliers provide their customers

with Upstream emissions data but that

our customers also provide us as

suppliers with their information because

at the end of the day you know the the

the targets cover both directions of our

value chain and the progress has to

happen in both directions and um it's

it's common to have customers requesting

things of suppliers but maybe the other

way around is less um is less common um

so I I think that data exchange um and I

think across the board I mean I'm

focusing on emissions here because it's

I think where most companies are are

putting their efforts now at given their

commitments but I think it'll be across

the board there's going to be a lot more

data exchange um at least I hope

so and so what would a successful 2024

look like when it comes to to corporate

sustainability I think I'd probably say

it's one where we're ready as

organizations um for the mandatory SG

disclosures that we have to comply with

um where we set up the right data

collection and Reporting foundations

which will be a big challenge for many

companies and also the governance

structures I mean ESG isn't a single

bucket of topics and so figuring out who

is responsible for what um is is going

to take take um time and and um and

thinking um I think it'll be one where

um on the supply chain front um we do

start to be able to as companies broaden

our ability to engage more and more

suppliers and do so in a more

quantitative way um reflecting their

progress in our in our in our reporting

by collecting primary data for the first

time we continue to see progress in the

decarbonization of electricity grids

which is an area that uh most companies

rely on to make their progress uh as

well as progress in in key materials

like steel aluminium Plastics

Electronics uh which a lot of companies

use to to build their products and

consumers use in their daily lives so I

think really seeing emission reductions

and overall sustainability progress in

those um energy and material sectors

will be key in in the next year well

that touches nicely actually on what we

covered uh earlier in the podcast on

sort of policy progress in 2024 and

Industrial decarbonization so I also

hope we get to see all those things

coming uh over the next 12 months Anna

thank you very much for joining me today

um and for sharing your insights from

Amon thank you for having me thank you

to all our guests and to you the

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that's it for today on greenomic from

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