How do we Fix Pioneer?
Summary
TLDRIn this discussion video, Doomwake examines the current state of the Pioneer format in Magic: The Gathering, focusing on recent ban list announcements and their impact on the metagame. He reviews the bans of K the Great Creator and Geological Appraiser, the unbanning of Smuggler's Copter, and the rise of Ratos Vampires and Amalia combo decks. Doomwake expresses concerns about the dominance of a few decks and suggests potential bans to increase metagame diversity, including Saurin, Wild Growth Walker, and Treasure Cruise, to foster a healthier and more varied Pioneer environment.
Takeaways
- 🚀 Pioneer format has faced challenges, but there's optimism for improvements.
- 🗓️ A look back at the December 2023 ban list reveals significant changes with K the Great Creator and Geological Appraiser banned, and Smuggler's Copter unbanned.
- 🔮 The ban on K the Great Creator was due to its broad range facilitating complex combos and suppressing other cards.
- 🚫 Geological Appraiser's ban was a response to its turn three combo potential, deemed unhealthy for Pioneer.
- 🛬 Smuggler's Copter's unbanning was met with mixed reactions but has since become a part of the metagame without major disruptions.
- 🏆 The March 11th announcement followed a Pro Tour win by Chainfire Ball and Seth Manfield, highlighting the impact of recent sets on the format.
- 📈 The May 13th announcement noted a continued health in Pioneer, with a rise in Modern Black Waste Knot decks utilizing The Punisher.
- 🔄 June 24th saw no changes to the format, but a close watch on the evolving Amalia combo deck for its negative play experience.
- 📊 Current metagame analysis shows Ratos Vampires, ABS Amalia, and Phoenix as dominant, occupying over 62% of the metagame.
- 🔍 The video suggests potential bans or restrictions on Saurin, Wild Growth Walker, and Treasure Cruise to diversify the metagame and address the dominance of certain decks.
Q & A
What was the main topic of Doomwake's discussion video?
-The main topic was the state and health of the Pioneer format in Magic: The Gathering, including a discussion on recent ban list announcements and the current metagame snapshot.
Which cards were banned in the December 2023 ban list announcement?
-In the December 2023 ban list announcement, 'Karn Liberated' and 'Geological Appraiser' were banned, while 'Smuggler's Copter' was unbanned.
What was the reasoning behind banning 'Karn Liberated' according to the script?
-The script mentions that 'Karn Liberated' was banned because its broad range could facilitate convoluted infinite combos, making the format less approachable with little to no opportunity cost.
How did the unbanning of 'Smuggler's Copter' affect the Pioneer metagame?
-According to the script, 'Smuggler's Copter' has been a relatively decent part of the metagame without having a warping effect, being adopted in various aggro decks.
What significant event occurred after the March 11th banned and restricted announcement?
-After the March 11th announcement, the Pro Tour happened, which was won by 'Channel Fireball' and Seth Manfield piloting 'Ratos Vampires', marking a significant impact on the metagame.
What was the outcome of the May 13th ban list announcement regarding the health of Pioneer?
-The May 13th announcement stated that Pioneer remained in a healthy state, with a diverse metagame and the breakout 'Ratos Vampires' deck continuing to be a significant part of it.
What was the percentage of the metagame share for 'Ratos Vampires' as of the recording date in the script?
-As of the recording date, 'Ratos Vampires' had a metagame share of 27.8%.
What decks were dominating the Pioneer metagame according to the script?
-The script states that 'Ratos Vampires', 'ABS Amalia', and 'Phoenix' were dominating the metagame, with a combined share of over 62%.
What are the three cards that the script suggests banning to increase metagame diversity?
-The script suggests banning 'Saurin, Imperious Blood Lord', 'Wild Growth Walker', and 'Treasure Cruise' to increase metagame diversity.
What is the script's opinion on the current state of the 'Phoenix' deck in Pioneer?
-The script suggests that while 'Phoenix' has a strong presence, it offers a lot of interaction points and is not as problematic as other decks like 'Ratos Vampires' or 'Amalia'.
What is the script's view on the impact of 'Ratos Vampires' and 'Amalia' on the Pioneer format?
-The script views 'Ratos Vampires' and 'Amalia' as problematic due to their ability to end games quickly and put pressure on the format to force early and frequent interactions.
Outlines
🃏 Pioneer Format Discussion and Ban List Analysis
The paragraph discusses the current state of the Pioneer format in Magic: The Gathering, focusing on recent ban list announcements and their impact on the metagame. The narrator, Doomwake, reviews the December 2023 ban list, which saw 'Karn Liberated' and 'Geological Appraiser' banned, and 'Smuggler's Copter' unbanned. The rationale behind these changes is examined, highlighting how 'Karn' was seen as too powerful and 'Geological Appraiser' as a turn three combo threat. The unbanning of 'Smuggler's Copter' is also discussed, noting its relatively benign presence in the metagame since its return. The paragraph sets the stage for a deeper dive into the health of the Pioneer format and potential solutions to its issues.
📉 Impact of New Cards and Metagame Shifts
This section delves into the influence of new card releases on the Pioneer format, particularly following the March 11th banned and restricted announcement. The paragraph discusses the performance of 'Chainfire Fireball' and 'Ratos Vampires' at the Pro Tour, which led to a reevaluation of the metagame. It also touches on the rise of 'Waste Knot' decks and their impact on the format, especially against 'Phoenix' decks. The narrator reflects on the diversity of viable strategies in Pioneer, suggesting that while the format was in a good place, certain decks like 'Ratos Vampires' and 'Amalia Combo' were becoming dominant, leading to a less diverse metagame.
🧛♂️ Vampires' Dominance and Combo Deck Concerns
The focus of this paragraph is the rise of 'Ratos Vampires' and its impact on the Pioneer format. The narrator critiques the deck's combo-oriented playstyle, which often revolves around 'Saurin, the Pureblood' and 'Veil of Summer', leading to quick game endings. The paragraph also addresses the issue of 'Amalia Combo', which, despite being a less prevalent deck, is criticized for its ability to draw the game, negatively affecting the play experience. The narrator suggests that the format's health is at risk due to the dominance of a few decks and calls for changes to increase metagame diversity.
🔥 Addressing the Health of the Pioneer Metagame
In the final paragraph, the narrator proposes potential changes to the Pioneer format to address the dominance of 'Ratos Vampires', 'Amalia Combo', and 'Phoenix' decks. Specific cards such as 'Saurin, the Pureblood', 'Wild Growth Walker', and 'Treasure Cruise' are suggested for banning to decrease the decks' consistency and encourage a more diverse metagame. The paragraph concludes with a call for community discussion and a desire to see a healthier, more varied Pioneer format that aligns with the goals set forth by the game's administrators.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Pioneer format
💡Ban list announcement
💡Metagame
💡Combo deck
💡Smuggler's Copter
💡Regional Championship qualifiers
💡Macro archetypes
💡Saurin, the Great Lord
💡Veil of Summer
💡Treasure Cruise
Highlights
Pioneer format is in a bit of a weird spot, with a discussion needed on its health and recent ban list announcements.
The December 2023 ban list saw K the Great Creator and Geological Appraiser banned, while Smuggler's Copter was unbanned.
K's broad range was cited as a reason for its ban, as it facilitated convoluted combos and suppressed other cards' playability.
Geological Appraiser was banned for enabling turn three combo decks, which are undesirable in Pioneer.
Smuggler's Copter's unbanning was met with initial hesitation but has since become a decent part of the metagame.
The March 11th announcement followed the Modern Pro Tour, aiming for a more diverse Pioneer metagame.
Recent sets have continued to impact the format, with cards like True-Name Nemesis and Vein Ripper making significant impacts.
The May 13th announcement stated that Pioneer remains in a healthy state, with a decline in Phoenix's win rate attributed to the rise of Rats.
The June 24th announcement noted a flood of results from Regional Championship qualifiers, with a mixed bag of deck performances.
Amalia combo decks are being monitored due to their ability to draw the game, which is a negative play experience.
No changes were made to the format in June, as there was still room for the metagame to shift around the Amalia combo.
The metagame snapshot as of August 6th, 2024, shows Rats Vampires at 27.8%, ABS at 17.6%, and Phoenix at 12.2%, dominating the metagame.
The top three decks in Pioneer take up over 62% of the metagame, which is a significant concentration.
The discussion suggests that aggro, control, and mid-range decks are underrepresented in the current metagame.
Ratos Vampires are considered a combo deck due to their reliance on specific combos to win games quickly.
Amalia combo decks are problematic because they can force draws, which is undesirable in tournament play.
Treasure Cruise in Phoenix decks is a point of contention due to its history of being overpowered in other formats.
The video suggests banning Saurin, Wild Growth Walker, and Treasure Cruise to increase metagame diversity.
Weakening the consistency of decks like Amalia and Phoenix might be considered to improve the format's health.
The goal is to increase the diversity and health of the metagame, which has been a stated intention of previous ban announcements.
Transcripts
Pioneers got some problems but I think
we can fix
them what's up guys doomwake here and
welcome back to another discussion video
on the channel as you can see by the
title in the intro Pioneer is in a bit
of a weird spot right now and I wanted
to have this discussion to go over maybe
the history of some recent ban list
announcements where they stand on the
state and the health of the pioneer
format as well as a current metagame
snapshot uh all of those things combined
and we'll talk about what I think could
potentially help fix the format long
term first and foremost as with these
discussion videos please be sure to let
me know in the comments section down
below if you guys enjoy this type of
content let me know what you would like
to see as far as a discussion video is
concerned and with all of that said let
us start by taking a look back at the
December
2023 ban list announcement here is an
excerpt here now for context this is the
announcement where K the great Creator
and geological appraiser were both
banned and Smuggler's copter was
unbanned now I feel like a lot of people
expected the geological appraiser ban K
was not necessarily on everybody's radar
like I think a lot of people thought
that it was a possibility that K would
eventually go but I don't think people
necessarily expected it to go at this
particular time but just reading the
second paragraph here they said K's
range is so broad it can facilitate
convoluted infinite combos that make the
format less approachable at little to no
opportunity cost we might rehash that
statement a little bit later
additionally K's ability to naturally
suppress artifacts is likely keeping a
spread of interesting cards from being
played while it has recently been on the
decline in terms of metagame share it is
clear that the deck has had a warping
effect in the metagame for too long and
for these reasons car the great crater
is banned as far as The Smuggler copter
and geological appraiser are concerned
appraiser kind of obvious we don't need
to go into too much discussion about
that it was a turn three combo deck they
don't want that stuff in Pioneer and as
far as Smuggler copter is concerned I
think there was a bit of hesitation
myself included I was actually kind of
shocked when they unbanned copter but I
think for the most part it seems to be a
relatively decent part of the metag game
the initial builds of vampire I think
the channel Fireball list if I recall
correctly I think had two copies of
Smuggler copter I played a lot of it in
the gr Vehicles deck and various aggro
decks have adopted it over the past 9
months or so however long it's been
legal but I think overall it hasn't
really had a warping effect in the metag
game as much so as it was previously for
the reasons that it was previously
banned in the format in like the mono
black aggro deex so now let's fast
forward to the March 11th banned and
restricted announcement this was the one
directly after the modern prot tour
happened which for context Was Won by
chainel Fireball and Seth Manfield
piloting ratos vampires which was the
breakout deck of the tournament this was
protour murders of Carlo Manor which
means vain Ripper had just been released
and to be honest with you I don't think
this deck was on anybody's radar it was
definitely not on mine I was somebody
who was playing a lot of pioneer at that
time Channel had mostly been Pioneer
focused and that is definitely an
interaction that I missed I'm sure a lot
of other people had missed it as well
but with them talking about the format
after the pro tour said we made a few
changes during our last announcement
with the goal of setting up the stage
for a more fun and diverse Pioneer metag
game which to be fair to their credit I
think they did achieve by Banning
geological and K I think it really
opened up the metag game a little bit
more recent sets continue to impact the
format with cards printed over the last
year appearing in top decks true no more
lies deduce meticulous archive Amalia
picklock prankster slight of hand Arch
jid's charm and vein Ripper all cards
from recent sets that have all made a
huge impact in the format the recently
unbanned Smugglers copter also made an
appearance in the aformentioned Rose
vampires as well as is it in Soul lists
with new cards impacting the format and
a slew of viable strategies Pioneer is
in a great spot for our upcoming
Regional Championship qualifiers
beginning in April now to their credit
when they made this statement right
before the Regional Championship
qualifier season had started I kind of
agree with that and back at that time
the metag game was a little bit more
diverse this was when vampires had first
been discovered and not become this
potential Terror of the metag game that
we might talk about in a little bit but
I think overall the format was
relatively healthy this was when Phoenix
started to pick up a little bit more in
popularity and then you had the amolia
deck that had just come out with lost
caverns of Exelon that was the set prior
to that but those lists were still a
little untuned and still not quite
refined to the point where they are
today I think overall at that point the
metag game was relatively healthy fast
forward a little bit to May 13th of this
year this is the announcement that was a
couple of months after the pro tour they
said Pioneer remains in a healthy state
after protour murders at colov Manor the
breakout ratos vampires deck from the
protor utilizing ve Ripper has proven
that it is not a fluke and continues to
be an important part part of the pioneer
medic game prevalence has contributed to
a decline in Phoenix's win rate which I
don't know if I necessarily buy that
100% I don't exactly know what sort of
data they use maybe they have like a
specific win rate Matrix for magic
online data but as a phoenix player I
think that match up is closer than a lot
of other people think a deck that we've
been monitoring coming out of the
protour given its large degree of
success there and then they said here
the biggest shakeup coming out of
Outlaws of Thunder Junction was a large
metagame increase in modern black waste
knot decks utilizing the brand new carc
The Punisher where those waste knot
decks today huh carc has a massive card
Advantage engine alongside all of your
interactions that commit crimes and
another strategy that can meaningfully
play four copies of go blank as a
powerful option against the front
running Phoenix now to be fair at the
time Phoenix was still one of the more
do if not the more dominant deck than
ratos vampires people hadn't really
necessarily fully made the switch to
vampires now this is an important piece
which we will see this trend continue in
the next band list announcement for now
Pioneer is in a great place for playing
any macro archetype is viable aggro
control mid-range or combo with tools
for each strategy to address one another
and now if we fast forward to June 24th
this was the most recent band list
announcement now they start off by
saying we are seeing a flood of results
in deck list stream in from Pioneer
Regional Championship qualifiers and
it's a mixed bag the biggest positive we
are seeing in the format is that almost
every macro archetype is viable one
thing that we are going to keep a close
eye on is the evolution of the Amalia
combo deck a creature combo deck we are
generally positive on it unfortunately
its ability to draw the game is a
negative play experience which I 100%
agree with we are making no changes to
the format today as we still see room
for the meta game to shift around the
surge of aalia combo and because
Regional Championship qualifiers for
Pioneer continue to Mid July we don't
like to disrupt those events mid-season
so that is the last couple of ban
announcements in including the Banning
of K and geological appraiser now with
all of that said it seems to me that
their big take away from these
announcements is that they like when all
macro archetypes are viable aggro
control mid-range and combo now for the
sake of argument let's go ahead and take
a look at the metagame snapshot of the
last 30 days as of recording today last
30 days from August 6th
2024 ratos vampires coming in at a
whopping
27.8% and if you look there's ratos
vampires there and then ratos mid-range
three slots later at 5.8% I went through
the deck lists and I really couldn't
find that much of a difference so if
anybody has any ideas in the comment
section let me know down below but
realistically vampires is at over 33% of
the metagame ABS Animalia 17.6% is it
Phoenix 12.2 now if you combine the
metagame percentage share for those
three decks those three decks alone take
up over 62% of the metagame for context
if you look at the Modern metagame
snapshot over the last 30 days this is
the Nadu format by the way it's right
about half it was around 31% of the top
three decks in modern so if you look at
the top of the metag game it is
extremely topheavy when it comes to
those three decks and I think a lot of
the people's negative complaints that
towards Pioneer specifically revolve
around those three decks now as far as
every macro archetype being viable aggro
control mid-range combo I don't see
aggro I don't see control and I guess
you could argue that Phoenix is this
weird like control mid-range hybrid
right it's really hard to classify is it
Phoenix as a deck by the way there's
definitely games where it can feel like
an aggro deck where you Mill over two to
three phoenixes in the first couple of
turns and start attacking your opponent
for six or nine damage on turn three
there are games where it feels like a
control deck where you just kill all
their stuff and draw a bunch of cards
and even in post boort games you can
play mid-range esque fights with stuff
like crackling drinks Phoenix is good
because it has the ability to adapt
between those three macro archetypes and
maybe that's what they're saying when
they say this but as far as macro
archetypes are concerned I'm seeing a
lot of combo now I might get a lot of
flack for this but ratos
vampires it's a combo deck whether you
want to believe it or not if you go back
and look at the history ratos mid-range
was the best deck for the longest period
of time and even when it was the most
played and the most winning deck I don't
really remember seeing a lot of
complaints about it sure there was the
occasional maybe you want to ban Fable
here and there but for the most part
everybody was kind of just okay with
playing against ratos mid-range because
it was a mid-range deck a true mid-range
deck that played creatures and removal
and four drops
now if you take a look at the vampires
decks nowadays they have some elements
of that but realistically a 100% of the
time their plan a in every single
matchup is just find saurin plus F
Ripper uh also known as show Andel plus
atraxa there's not a lot of differences
there and I think the other big issue
with with saurin plus v Ripper is how
quickly it ends games the ruus mid-range
deck of old used to have to play much
longer games with stuff like blood TI
Harvester and graveyard trespasser and
all these three drops and there were
relevant interactive points and now it's
just oh here's my saurin here's my vein
Ripper if you don't have the very
specific answer that you need to kill my
creature that has Ward sacrifice a
creature on the spot you're just going
to die next turn because bin Ripper also
synergizes so well with the plus
abilities on saurin to sacrifice mols
and it also synergizes with blood tithe
Harvester it's not very difficult to
kill your opponent on turn four with
vampires basically is what I'm saying so
at the end of the day vampires is for
all intents and purposes in my opinion a
combo death now as far as amoia is
concerned the amoia metag game if you're
comparing it to vampires specifically is
much much less than that 17% compared to
around 33
32% but I think the biggest issue for
Amalia which is something that they
addressed in a prior band announcement
that we talked about earlier is the fact
that specifically red archetypes that
have monstrous rage a lot of the plans
in that matchup is specifically the goal
of the red player wants to draw the game
if you go into a match of magic with
your intent on being I want to draw the
game we have kind of a bit of a problem
there all you have to do is go back and
watch the pro tour murders of carof
Manor top eight where Simon neelon
played a seven game match that's all you
need to know on that subject it's just
not good for tournament magic for paper
tournament magic but I think for that
reason alone I would like to see a
little bit of a change and then then as
far as Phoenix is concerned now it it
breaks my heart to say this because I
have been playing a lot of is it Phoenix
over the past two or three months it's a
little strange because you can point to
certain cards in the vampires Animalia
Decks that are problematic like there's
a very specific combo piece it's like
saurin plus ve Ripper or Amalia Plus
Wild growth Walker with is it Phoenix
there's not really a combo going on it's
just a bunch of can trips some card draw
and the creatures but when people talk
about is it Phoenix they all always seem
to talk about one specific card and that
card is treasure Cruise which to its
credit has quite the history of being
broken in multiple different formats
modern Legacy it's restricted in vintage
I believe to my knowledge I think
Pioneer is the only format where you're
allowed to play four copies so yeah it's
got a track record on it so for the sake
of changing the metag game if I am of
the opinion that I think something from
vampires needs to go and something from
mamalia needs to go where is the 44% or
sorry 27 yeah 44% of metagame share
where's that going to go if we don't
remove anything from Phoenix it's
probably going to go towards Phoenix to
be honest with you for the sake of
competitive diversity prior to this
upcoming Regional Championship cycle
preferably am I my wish list again this
is personally if I was in charge of
changing the Pioneer format with the
goal to specifically increase metagame
diversity because three decks taking up
64% of the metagame it's just
unacceptable the three cards that I
would ban are saurin imperious blood
Lord wild growth Walker and treasure
cruise see it's weird because I think
that the Phoenix gameplay and let me
know in the comment section down below
your thoughts on this but I actually
don't mind the Phoenix gameplay maybe
that's because I have become a Phoenix
main myself and I'm sort of taking a
blind eye and being oblivious to the the
fact that what I'm doing is kind of
messed up but there's a lot of
interaction points there's graveyard
hates good against it now obviously Cruz
might be a bit out of bounds and
something that maybe the deck shouldn't
have access to but as far as the Phoenix
gameplay it's not that bad especially
when you're comparing it to stuff like
oh show and tell my vein rer to play on
turn three or literally kill you on turn
three with my Amalia deck in closing
that's one thing that I really want to
bring home about specifically if you go
back to the last B announcement in
December of 2023 the last time they
banned cards from the format geological
appraiser was banned because it was too
consistently able to end the game on
turn three and they only had four copies
of geological appraiser it's not like
you had eight effective copies of that
card and ratos vampires and Amalia also
end the game on turn three a lot of the
time now it's in a different fashion for
sure but they really do put so much
pressure on the format to force you to
interact early and often and then these
very unique ways like you need a
specific removal speed for amolia but
those removal spells are definitely not
good against ve Ripper so I think it's
putting a little bit too much pressure
on the format in terms of the answers
that it's requiring you to play the
speed in which your deck has to operate
the number of creatures that you play in
your deck there are certain Decks that
you just cannot play into a field of
amolia like Grill Vehicles the other
consideration potentially is maybe you
want to just weaken the decks a little
bit maybe weaken their consistency and
if you don't want to kill the decks
outright perhaps there's maybe an
argument to say I don't know Banning a
blood tie Harvester perhaps there's an
argument to Banning collected company or
Court of calling or some other
consistency piece for Amalia maybe with
Phoenix it's really tough because if you
ban a random canant trip they're just
going to like say okay whatever I'll
just play less can trips maybe you could
talk me into the picklock prankster and
make them go back to playing pieces of
the puzzle because three Mana sorcery
versus two minut instant that's a huge
difference maybe there's something you
can do there but I really do think that
if your goal is to specifically increase
the diversity and the health of the
metag game overall which they've said in
previous ban announcements that they are
trying to do I really think that we need
to be addressing all three of those
decks now again not sure if you want to
kill them out right maybe you just want
to decrease their consistency but
something is got to happen let me know
what you thought in the comment section
down below but that is my personal
opinion as someone who has played a lot
of pioneer over the past 9 months or so
anyways let me know what your thought in
the comment section down below like
subscribe and I will see you guys in the
next one adios
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