Paula Vennells was 'lying' about Post Office scandal, claims forensic accountant
Summary
TLDRThe Post Office scandal involved thousands of sub postmasters wrongfully prosecuted for theft due to issues with the Post Office's Horizon computer system. A public inquiry has revealed attempts by Post Office executives to cover up the problems, including trying to 'shut down' campaigns by affected sub postmasters and supportive MPs. There is evidence the Post Office knew Horizon could cause money discrepancies, yet still prosecuted sub postmasters based on false accounts. MPs and investigators allege the Post Office lied to government committees and inquiries. There are now calls for police investigations and criminal prosecutions over the scandal which ruined lives over many years.
Takeaways
- 😡 The UK Post Office scandal involved thousands of subpostmasters wrongfully accused and convicted of theft.
- 😟 Senior Post Office executives and lawyers knew of problems with the Horizon IT system but covered them up.
- 😠 Post Office executives tried to shut down MPs and campaigners investigating the scandal.
- 😤 The Post Office misled Parliament about evidence of miscarriages of justice.
- 😢 Subpostmaster lives were ruined by false accusations and wrongful convictions.
- 😠 The Post Office limited the information given to investigating forensic accountants.
- 😡 The Post Office CEO denied any evidence of miscarriages of justice despite being aware of such evidence.
- 🤬 An investigator believes the Post Office CEO lied to Parliament about miscarriages of justice.
- 😤 The Post Office tried to control and shut down an MP and subpostmasters' alliance investigating the scandal.
- 😠 There are calls for criminal investigations and prosecutions of Post Office leaders involved in the scandal cover up.
Q & A
What is the Post Office inquiry investigating?
-The Post Office inquiry is investigating the Post Office Horizon scandal, where thousands of sub-postmasters were wrongly prosecuted for theft, false accounting and fraud.
What evidence has been uncovered about the Post Office's knowledge of problems with the Horizon system?
-Covertly recorded meeting transcripts show the Post Office knew there were problems with the Horizon system and tried to cover it up, including attempting to shut down MP investigations.
How did the Post Office respond to MP inquiries about the scandal?
-The Post Office tried to shut down inquiries by MPs like James Arbuthnot, who were raising concerns about potential miscarriages of justice against sub-postmasters.
What did Paula Vennells tell Parliament about potential miscarriages of justice?
-In 2015, Paula Vennells, then CEO of the Post Office, told Parliament "we've had no evidence of" any miscarriages of justice against sub-postmasters.
What evidence contradicts Vennells' statement to Parliament?
-A 2006 confidential report into the case of sub-postmaster Joe Hamilton found no evidence of theft, despite Hamilton later being prosecuted - evidence the Post Office knew of problems years before Vennells' statement.
What was the involvement of Second Sight in investigating the scandal?
-Second Sight were forensic accountants brought in by the Post Office in 2012 to investigate the scandal. They found major issues with the Horizon system, which the Post Office tried to suppress.
How did MPs react to the transcript revelations?
-MPs like Lord Arbuthnot expressed shock and called for urgent police investigations into potential criminal misconduct by Post Office executives.
What were the impacts on affected sub-postmasters?
-Sub-postmasters suffered wrongful prosecutions, imprisonment, financial ruin, and health impacts due to the Post Office's false accusations against them.
What are the next steps for the inquiry?
-The inquiry will continue taking testimony and examining evidence, with a final report still to be published. Criminal investigations may also follow.
What are the wider implications of the scandal?
-Beyond individual injustices, the scandal reveals issues with government oversight of a national institution and institutional cover-ups of errors.
Outlines
🔍 The Post Office Scandal: An Inquiry into Injustice
The paragraph discusses the ongoing Post Office public inquiry, now in its third year, focusing on the testimonies of individuals whose lives were severely impacted by wrongful convictions of theft based on flawed evidence. Tracy Fell, a sub-postmaster wrongly convicted at 19, is highlighted as one of thousands affected by what is described as the greatest miscarriage of justice in British history. The inquiry has uncovered covertly recorded tapes of senior Post Office executives, revealing attempts to suppress the scandal and manipulate the justice process. Susan Kryon, a senior Post Office lawyer, is mentioned for her role in trying to manage the fallout and influence MPs and the Justice for Sub Postmasters Alliance. The involvement of forensic accountants from Second Site, who found that the issue lay in the Post Office's technology rather than the sub-postmasters, further complicates the narrative. The Post Office's efforts to control information and prevent investigations are criticized, underlining a systemic attempt to hide the truth.
🔎 Discrepancies and Denials: Uncovering the Truth
This paragraph delves into the responses and actions taken by the Post Office and its executives when faced with allegations of miscarriages of justice. Paula Venel, the Post Office boss, and her denial of evidence pointing to wrongful convictions are scrutinized, especially in light of evidence to the contrary, such as the case of sub postmaster Joe Hamilton. Despite Venel's apology and support for the inquiry, the narrative suggests a pattern of denial and suppression of evidence by the Post Office. The involvement of MPs, notably Lord Bunot, in challenging the Post Office's narrative and pushing for transparency and justice is emphasized. The paragraph exposes a culture of cover-up within the Post Office, highlighting the significant discrepancies between public statements and internal knowledge of the flawed Horizon system.
🚨 Calls for Accountability and Action
In the final paragraph, the focus shifts to the urgent need for criminal investigations and accountability. Lord Bunot advocates for immediate police action based on existing evidence, without waiting for the inquiry's conclusion. He emphasizes the injustice faced by postmasters, drawing parallels between the swift injustice they experienced and the slow pace of seeking accountability for those responsible. The paragraph underscores the gravity of the scandal, pointing to systemic corruption and mismanagement within a government-owned organization. The mention of Joe Hamilton's case, where evidence of her innocence was ignored, highlights the profound impact of the scandal on individuals' lives. Lord Bunot's call to action reflects a broader demand for justice and reform in the wake of the Post Office scandal.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Post Office Public Inquiry
💡Horizon Scandal
💡Covertly Recorded Audio Tapes
💡Forensic Accountants
💡Miscarriage of Justice
💡Sub-Postmasters
💡Justice for Sub-Postmasters Alliance
💡Cover-Up
💡Misleading Parliament
💡Prosecutions and Convictions
Highlights
Thousands of lives damaged by the post office scandal
Inquiry has given a window into the heart of the scandal
Revealed inquiry has 80 covertly recorded tapes of post office executives
Post office lawyer wanted to 'shut down' MPs investigating the scandal
Post office held back information from investigators
Investigator believes post office CEO lied to Parliament about miscarriages of justice
Post office had evidence years before CEO claimed no miscarriages of justice
Former MP says post office tried to 'kill off' the scandal and shut down investigations
Investigator accuses post office of 'cover up' and misleading Parliament
Former MP says criminal prosecutions should begin based on current evidence
Post office paid sub postmasters' union to prevent them getting help
Cover up by post office made the scandal much worse
Police should investigate perjury in courts by post office
Story reveals profound corruption at government-owned post office
Deeply shocking revelations continue to emerge
Transcripts
and affirm declare and affirm that the
evidence I shall give that the evidence
I shall give shall be now in its third
year the post office public inquiry
hearing testimony on a daily basis of
lives ruined I hadn't stolen any money
so why am I paying something that I
haven't
stolen the day of
sentencing the judge accused me of
stealing from old age
pensioners Tracy fell said at the
inquiry which is probing what's been
called the greatest Carriage of Justice
in British history the sub postmaster
was only 19 when she was wrongly
convicted of theft and sent to prison
for six months one of thousands of lives
damaged the inquiry has given us a
window into the heart of the Scandal and
tonight we can open it a little further
what did the post office Executives know
and
when it's been revealed that the inquiry
now has 80 covertly recorded audio tapes
of senior post office Executives during
this Scandal tonight Channel 4 News can
reveal some of the contents of what was
said by Susan kryon the then post office
senior lawyer the post office had called
in forensic accountants in 2012 to
investigate the Scandal a year later
those accountants issue their first
report and meetings are called which are
covertly recorded at one the post office
lawyer is worried about MPS in
Parliament who are campaigning to clear
the names of the sub postmasters we've
obtained a summary of some of the tapes
Susan the post office lawyer refers to
Paula Paula venel the post office boss
having a meeting with James R bunot an
MP tomorrow at 10:30 a.m. and then Susan
reports that Paula was concerned to shut
down the
MPS there is also a record here of
senior post office staff wishing to in
some way control Alan Bates and his
campaign on behalf of the sub post
Masters Justice for sub postmasters
Alliance as well as
MPS Susan the post office lawyer talks
about managing the justice for sub
postmasters Alliance and then again
Susan asks if there is any way of
shutting down the MP's
cases what's meant by shutting down
isn't explained we approached both women
for comment Paul venel declined Susan
kryon didn't respond but what about the
other people in the room also on tape
the forensic accountant second site
called in by the post office to
investigate the Scandal we asked second
site's co-director Ian Henderson what he
made of the summary of the tapes the
significance is it was yet another
attempt by post office to prevent these
matters being uncovered uh James ALB and
a small group of MPS um were determined
however that second site should be
allowed to investigate these matters
post office did not want these matters
to see the light of day and to be
investigated that's the same post office
of course who called in second site in
the first place to investigate this
whole Scandal and the more they
investigated the more they found that
the problem was in the technology the
post office was using not the sub
postmasters at all the post office would
end up severing its contract with second
s there is more the summary of the
covert recordings also show second s's
co-director Ron warmington failing to
get Vital Information from the post
office Ron says we haven't received
adequate information in any of the cases
other than Alan bates's own case Ron
says that in 15 out of 31 cases that
we've received through the office of
James Arnot we have in effect nothing so
no investigative work can realistically
commence then a possible reason for
holding back information is on the
summary it comes again from the post
office senior lawyer Susan kryon
secretly
recorded Susan has formed the view
already notified to Second site the
forensic investigators further cases
should not go through the second site
process but rather through a post office
limited managed process with senior
oversight we put this to Susan kryon and
Paula venel Paula venel declined to
comment Susan kryon didn't respond
Angela nice to meet you here to help the
recent ITV drama featured the key second
site post office
investigation the drama matches the fact
that its team remains angry about
ordinary lives
ruined two years after second site
warned the post office that prosecutions
could be unsafe and two years after the
post office's own lawyers warned them as
well Paul lenel the post office CEO said
this to a select committee of MPS in
2015 and if there had been any
miscarriages of Justice it would have
been really important to me in the post
office that that we actually surface
those um and and as the investigations
have gone through so far we've had no
evidence of that and as you'll know
we're Bound by the disclosure act to
make known anything that we come across
that that might contribute to that
you're sitting next to Paul lenel in the
select committee and she is saying there
is no evidence of miscarriages of
Justice at that moment what went through
your mind she's
lying to the select committee yes
misleading Parliament misleading
Parliament you've no doubt of that no
doubt
whatsoever and her motives would be
cover up covering out what the truth
coming
out the truth being the truth being the
problems with um Fujitsu the problems
with the Horizon the fact that post
office had known about it for many years
and did very little about about it and
were able to recover losses directly
from sub
postmasters we put that opinion to Paula
venel she declined to comment when the
inquiry started 2 years ago venel said
she was truly sorry for the suffering
caused to wrongly prosecuted sub poost
Masters and their families she fully
supports the inquiry adding that because
it's still ongoing it would be
inappropriate to comment but in the
notorious case of sub postmaster Joe
Hamilton we know the post office had
evidence that her prose ution may not be
safe years before Paul lenel said that
to Parliament here's the investigation
report into Joe Hamilton carried out by
the post office marked confidential
having analyzed The Horizon printouts
and accounting documentation I was
unable to find any evidence of theft or
that the cash figures had been
deliberately inflated yet Joe Hamilton
would be charged all the same this
report was sent to the post office in
2006 that's 9 years years before Paula
venel told MPS the post office had no
evidence of miscarriages of Justice
simply one piece of evidence of many the
post office declined to comment saying
it fully supports the public inquiry as
Joe Hamilton has told the world the post
office very clearly new and new for
years but that was not what it told
Parliament or the post Masters
themselves Alex Thompson there well the
former labor MP now Lord bunot who's
campaigned on the horizon Scandal for
years joins me now from
Westminster um a conservative MP I beg
you pardon um Lord of bunner when
they're talking about shutting down MPS
they're talking about shutting you down
aren't they they are clearly and trying
to shut down Alan Bates and the justice
for sub postmasters Alliance they had
already let's not forget shut down the
post sub postmasters Union the national
feder Federation of sub postmasters by
paying for the whole of that Union and
as a result the sub postmasters got no
help at all from their own Union but
it's interesting isn't it because MPS
are supposed to be treated with respect
they're supposed to be listened to
they're supposed to be able to Lobby on
behalf of their constituents and they
were trying to shut you down yes um
because Second Sight were getting too
close to the truth and the truth was
very damaging for the post office so
they were trying to get rid of us
Troublesome MPS as quickly as they could
they were trying to kill off the Scandal
weren't they yes they were as Ian
Henderson has just said they were trying
to cover the whole thing up and it is
always the cover up that makes things
much much worse which is why Paula vel's
said in her evidence to the select
committee something that was simply not
true well exactly I mean Ian Henderson
is is perhaps Bolder or less polite he's
quite clear he says when he heard her
say that there was no evidence of
miscarriage of Justice she was lying yes
he's in no doubt about that do you agree
I do it's quite clear the post office
had instructed its own insurers two
years before she said that to the select
committee that there was a risk that
there were miscarriages of Justice am I
to believe that that didn't get to the
chief executive I'm not um so clearly
the post office was lying to the uh to
the select committee and I wrote to the
speaker two or three years ago to say
that that lie had been told and that
evidence needed to be and that something
needed to be done about it it is getting
worse and worse exactly on that point
about something needs to be done it is a
very serious issue isn't it to lie to
Parliament to lie to MPS at a select
committee very very
so what happens
now well I think it is time that the
police began to operate with rather
more speed and uh and Effectiveness than
they so far have it's now three years
since Mr Justice Fraser referred two
people to the police for uh
investigation into possible perjury in
front of the courts but I think that uh
we mustn't wait for the post office in
quiry to produce its results I think the
police should be acting now on the basis
of what we know right now that there's
no need to wait for the inquiry criminal
prosecutions criminal investigations
should be ongoing yes the post
postmasters deserve that Justice is
visited on those who did them so much
wrong as quickly as Justice was visited
on the postmasters themselves I mean one
of the other bits of the information in
the film really just asking you in terms
of your source of personal involvement
was your constituent Joe Hamilton you
know the information in the film shows
that there was no evidence of theft it
was written down but they prosecuted her
anyway that is well known it'll be well
known to you but I wonder does it still
have the ability to shock you what is
being uncovered at the moment the ground
that we're going over now this is a
story of profound corrupt
at an organization owned by and overseen
by the government I think it is deeply
shocking
yes Lord of bnot thank you so much for
talking to us this evening thank you
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