Global Journalist: Gender quotas on the march
Summary
TLDRThe script from 'Global Journalists' discusses the impact of gender quotas in politics worldwide, highlighting the U.S. Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Brett Kavanaugh as a backdrop. It examines the voluntary quota system in Sweden, which has significantly increased women's parliamentary representation, and contrasts it with mandatory quotas in countries like Rwanda and Zimbabwe. The conversation includes insights from Swedish MP Ausa Eriksson, Zimbabwean journalist Tendai Marima, and researchers Jennifer Piscopo and Anna Catalfamo Weeks, who explore the effectiveness, controversies, and potential long-term necessity of such quotas in achieving gender equality in politics.
Takeaways
- 🗨️ The US Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Brett Kavanaugh revealed a significant divide in American society's perception of sexual assault and harassment accusations.
- 🔢 A notable statistic highlighted was the 23% share of women in the US Senate, which is lower than many countries, reflecting a broader issue of gender representation in politics.
- 🌍 The US ranks 103rd in the world for the proportion of women in its national legislature, behind countries like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Iraq.
- 📊 Over 60 countries have implemented formal quotas for women in politics, either mandating a minimum number of female candidates or reserving legislative seats for women, a trend that began in the 1990s.
- 🇸🇪 Sweden has achieved gender equality in its parliament without legal quotas, through a voluntary system adopted by political parties that alternates male and female candidates on their lists.
- 🏛️ In Sweden, the voluntary quota system has led to increased competence and education levels among elected officials, contrary to initial fears of a decline in merit.
- 👶 Family policies in Sweden, such as generous parental leave, have contributed to a more equal society where both parents share responsibilities at home.
- 🇷🇼 Rwanda stands out with over 60% female representation in its parliament, enforced by a 30% quota, which has impacted laws related to domestic violence and women's issues.
- 🇿🇼 Zimbabwe's constitution mandates 50% representation for women in Parliament, but in practice, only 26 women were elected in the 2020 elections, indicating mixed results in implementation.
- 💡 Gender quotas have been shown to be effective when they require alternation of male and female candidates on electoral lists, ensuring that women are in winnable positions.
- 🤔 Despite the global spread of gender quotas, the US has been hesitant to adopt such measures due to unique electoral systems and historical anxieties around affirmative action.
Q & A
What was the main topic of discussion in the 'Global Journalists' episode featuring Jayson McClure?
-The main topic of discussion was gender quotas in politics and how they operate around the globe.
What percentage of women in the US Senate and House of Representatives was mentioned in the script?
-The script mentioned that 23% of the US Senate and just over 19 percent of the House of Representatives are women.
How does the ranking of the US compare to other countries in terms of women's representation in national legislature?
-The US ranks about 103rd in the world for the share of women in the national legislature, behind countries like Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Iraq.
What is the concept of gender quotas in politics and when did it begin to take off?
-Gender quotas in politics is the idea of mandating a certain percentage of female candidates or setting aside legislative seats for women. This concept began to take off in the early 1990s.
How does the voluntary quota system work in Sweden as described by AUSA Eriksson?
-In Sweden, political parties have formed a voluntary system where they alternate male and female candidates on their lists. This has been in place since 1993 and has significantly impacted gender equality in the Swedish Parliament.
What was the impact of the voluntary quota system on the competence level in the Swedish Parliament according to the Uppsala University study?
-The Uppsala University study showed that the level of competence and education has increased with the implementation of the gender quota system in most of the parties.
What is the percentage of women in the Rwandan Parliament after the September elections?
-After the September elections, about 68% of the parliamentarians in Rwanda are female.
How does the quota system in Zimbabwe differ from that in Rwanda?
-Zimbabwe's constitution mandates a 50% representation of women in Parliament, but in practice, only 26 women were elected into Parliament in the 2020 elections, with most entering through proportional representation seats that have a limited term.
What are some of the criticisms against gender quotas in politics?
-Some criticisms include the argument that gender quotas are fundamentally undemocratic as they deny opportunities for men to contest seats, and the concern that women elected through quotas may not be seen as having achieved it on their own merit.
What is the situation regarding gender quotas in the United States?
-In the United States, the idea of gender quotas in politics has not gained much traction, partly due to the unique election system and historical anxieties around affirmative action.
What are the two strategic reasons Anna Catalano Weeks found that could motivate political parties to adopt gender quotas?
-The two strategic reasons are the presence of a rising competitor on the left that is gaining traction, and the belief that implementing a voluntary quota would make the party more appealing to constituents, especially when local party leaders are not receptive to voluntary quotas.
Outlines
🗳️ Gender Quotas in Politics and Kavanaugh Hearings
The script begins with a discussion on the US Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Justice Brett Kavanaugh, highlighting the divide in public opinion regarding accusations of sexual assault. It introduces the topic of gender quotas in politics, noting the low percentage of women in the US Senate and House of Representatives. The script mentions that more than 60 countries have implemented gender quotas, either legally or voluntarily, to increase women's representation in politics. The segment features an interview with AUSA Eriksson, a member of the Swedish Parliament, who explains Sweden's voluntary quota system and its impact on gender equality in politics.
🌍 International Perspectives on Gender Quotas
This paragraph delves into the global context of gender quotas, starting with an examination of Sweden's voluntary system and its success in doubling the representation of women in Parliament compared to the US. It then contrasts this with Rwanda's legal quota system, which has resulted in over 60% female representation in Parliament. The discussion also touches on Zimbabwe's constitutional provision for 50% female representation and the challenges faced in achieving this goal. The segment includes insights from journalist Tendai Matare on the impact of quotas on policy and societal change in Africa.
📊 The Efficacy and Challenges of Gender Quotas
The script addresses the effectiveness of gender quotas in influencing public policy, with a focus on the experiences of Rwanda and Zimbabwe. It discusses the challenges faced by women in politics, including stereotypes and backlash, and the importance of financial inclusion for women. The conversation also explores the role of quotas in ensuring gender-sensitive policies and the limitations of women's political power, even in countries with high representation.
🏛️ The Strategic Adoption of Gender Quotas by Political Parties
This section examines the reasons why male-led political parties might choose to implement gender quotas. It discusses the strategic benefits of adopting quotas, such as appealing to a broader constituency or countering competition from other parties. The script features insights from researchers Jennifer Piscopo and Anna Catalán Weeks, who explore the conditions under which quotas are adopted and the impact on party dynamics.
📈 The Impact of Gender Quotas on Candidate Quality and Representation
The script challenges the criticism that gender quotas result in less qualified candidates by presenting research findings that show women elected through quotas are as qualified as their male counterparts. It discusses the importance of placing women in electable positions on party lists to ensure their representation. The conversation also touches on the technical and normative reasons why gender quotas may not be as prevalent in the US, including the unique election system and historical context around affirmative action.
🔍 The Future of Gender Quotas in Politics
The final paragraph contemplates the future necessity of gender quotas, considering whether they might become obsolete as societies achieve greater gender equality. It acknowledges the intertwining of inequality in the household, workforce, and politics, suggesting that quotas may still be needed for the foreseeable future. The script concludes with reflections from the researchers on the potential long-term impact of quotas on political parties and the importance of continued efforts towards gender equality in politics.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Gender quotas
💡US Supreme Court
💡Sexual assault
💡Legislature
💡Voluntary quotas
💡Electoral systems
💡Meritocracy
💡Discrimination
💡Affirmative action
💡Rwanda
💡Zimbabwe
Highlights
The US Supreme Court confirmation hearings for Brett Kavanaugh revealed a deep divide in American society's view on accusations of sexual assault and harassment.
Christine Blasi Ford testified with certainty of Kavanaugh's sexual assault during high school, while Kavanaugh denied the allegations with equal certainty.
Only 23% of the US Senate are women, a figure that ranks the US 103rd in the world for female representation in national legislature.
Sweden has achieved nearly equal gender representation in Parliament without mandatory quotas, through a voluntary system implemented by political parties.
Sweden's Social Democratic Party decided in 1993 to alternate male and female candidates on their electoral lists, significantly impacting gender equality.
A study from Uppsala University showed that the introduction of gender quotas in Sweden has not decreased the level of competence among politicians.
Rwanda has a 30% quota for women in Parliament and has seen women win more than 60% of parliamentary seats in recent elections.
Despite political representation, women in Rwanda still face challenges with financial inclusion and gender-sensitive policy implementation.
In Zimbabwe, despite a constitutional provision for 50% representation, only 26 women were elected to Parliament in the 2020 elections.
Zimbabwe's proportional representation seats, which were meant to enhance female representation, will become extinct by 2023 due to a two-term limit.
Latin American countries have widely adopted gender quotas in politics, starting with Argentina in the early 1990s, as part of democratic reforms.
Gender quotas are often more accepted in countries with a history of social movements and civil society protests leading to democratization.
Political parties in Europe have adopted gender quotas for strategic reasons, such as countering rising competitors or appealing to constituents.
Effective quota laws require not just a specified percentage of female candidates, but also their placement in electable list positions.
Critics argue that gender quotas are undemocratic and could lead to less qualified candidates, but research shows that quota-elected women are as competent as men.
The US has been hesitant to adopt gender quotas in politics due to unique election systems and a contentious history with affirmative action.
Sweden's experience with voluntary quotas suggests that even in highly gender-equal societies, such measures may still be necessary to maintain balance.
Research indicates that gender quotas may need to remain in place indefinitely until deeper societal inequalities in caretaking and workforce positions are addressed.
Transcripts
[Music]
from the Missouri School of Journalism
welcome to global journalists I'm Jayson
McClure the charged US Supreme Court
confirmation hearings for justice Brett
Kavanaugh highlighted the stark divide
in how Americans view accusations of
sexual assault and sexual harassment one
of Cavanaugh's accusers christine Blasi
Ford testified that she was 100% certain
that Kavanagh sexually assaulted her
when they were both in high school
Cavanaugh testified he was 100% certain
he didn't one percentage that jumped out
for many viewers was this figure 23%
that's the share of women in the US
Senate the body that voted to confirm
Kavanagh and the House of
Representatives the figure is even lower
just over 19 percent are women that
ranks the u.s. about a hundred and third
in the world for the share of women in
the national legislature behind
countries like Saudi Arabia Venezuela
and Iraq now one reason why there are so
many more female legislators in other
countries is that a growing number of
governments have formal quotas for women
in politics this is an idea that began
to take off in the early 1990s
today more than 60 have passed laws
either mandating quotas for the number
of female candidates or setting aside a
certain number of legislative seats for
women in dozens of other countries
political parties ascribe to voluntary
quotas
now these legally impose quotas of
course are almost always controversial
but they are growing in popularity so on
this edition of global journalists we'll
take a closer look at how gender quotas
in politics operate around the globe and
we've got a great lineup of guests to
talk about this to kick things off we're
joined from norburg Sweden by AUSA
Eriksson she's a member of the Swedish
parliament the Riksdag
from the center-left social democrats
also welcome thank you nice being on the
show well it's wonderful to have you
Sweden I understand just had
parliamentary elections women were
elected to 44% of the seats that's about
double their share in the US Congress
tell us just a little bit about how
Sweden sort of made this change
obviously Sweden's Parliament looked
much different 30 years ago yeah that's
true
and we don't have any law for gender
quotas so it's a voluntary system that
political parties has formed itself my
party the Social Democratic Party
decided I think it was 1993 that we will
have equal voting lists for all the
different elections in Sweden you not
only choose a ballot with a party you
choose a list of candidates that party
has decided itself and since 1993 we
have every second female and every
second male candidate on the list and
that has made a huge impact on gender
equality okay so just to clarify because
the system is uh it is a bit different
from the US so the party actually
decides which candidates from each
constituency will run and then depending
on your vote share there you can win two
three four zero of the slots available
there and that's why it's important that
you're they're sort of they alternate
male female male female then if I
understand exactly that's correct and
it's also important that we not always
have men on the top positions because if
you get three teats that will be two men
and one woman so we're trying to make
sure that in some concession see we have
female on top that's the case in my
constituency I'm number three and we
have three seats
so from MicroStation see we are two
women and one men okay and so your party
the Social Democrats adopted this back
in 1993 they're a center-left party have
parties across the political spectrum
adopted similar quotas well most of them
it's not hundred percent that of the
political parties that are using this
system but most parties are and we have
a more or less equal Parliament right
now but the parties on the far right
have more men than women and our green
party which is to the left they have I
think two-thirds women in their
parliamentary group right now are these
quotas even though they're voluntary
quotas are they are they
controversial was their resistance to
them when they were imposed yes in the
beginning definitely there were huge
discussions a lot of people both men and
women actually were against it and the
most common argument was that the the
level of competence would decrease when
we had more women on the voting lists
but we have a recent study from Uppsala
University that has shown that it's the
opposite the level of competence and
education is much higher now when we
have this gender quota system in most of
the parties okay and I think we'll talk
more about this later but in other words
there were these fears that among other
things that women who wouldn't have
gotten into Parliament on their own
merit would be making it because of this
quota system you're saying there's some
research showing that that's not in fact
the case yeah that's right and we've
seen that this has spread to several
sectors of the society to the private
sector to the civil society nowadays in
Sweden I mean you would be ashamed to
propose a group of candidates that are
only from one sex you need to have some
kind of gender mixed in in the private
sector in the civil society everywhere
well can you point to sort of specific
public policies or laws that have
changed in Sweden as a result of this
well really because we try to do it the
the voluntarily way we don't have any
laws where we do have laws against
discriminations of course you cannot pay
different wages for men and women doing
the same job for instance but it has
been more of a grassroot movement people
don't tolerate male dominance anymore we
want to make sure that we have both men
and women on all kinds of positions but
what about what about in other areas of
public policy like child care Family
Leave
sexual harassment things like this yes
there we have very big reform
that have been has a big impact on the
society we have I think the world's most
general loss when it comes to parental
leave in Sweden you get 12 months paid
time to stay home and at least three
months needs to be used by one of the
parents so in every family at least
three months the father will stay at
home to take care of the newborn child
and in most families there are most like
50/50 both parents take care of the
household and the kids and that of
course has an impact on all other parts
of the society and let me ask you do you
do people in Sweden view these quotas as
being sort of a permanent feature of
public life I mean given that you know
Sweden it's as you mentioned it's close
to parity at least in terms of women
being represented in Parliament or this
is something that people expect to be
phased out over time no I think most
people are convinced that it's here to
stay there are small groups though on
the right wing who are against this but
they're quite few and I think when you
have lived in a society when there is so
natural with more or less gender
equality we do have our problems here -
I need to agree on that but but if you
had seen all the good things when it
comes to sharing the the burdens in the
household and and also take equal
responsibility when it comes to the
professional life I don't think you want
to change that
well AUSA Eriksson thank you so much for
taking the time to join us well thank
you what's my pleasure this is global
journalist on today's program we're
talking about gender quotas in politics
more than 60 countries around the world
now mandate that a certain number of
each party's candidates be women or
reserve seats for women in their
national legislatures and we just heard
from Swedish Member of Parliament AUSA
Eriksson she talked about how a
voluntary quota system operates in her
country to broaden our discussion we're
going to turn now to Africa we'll talk
about Rwanda where more than 60% of the
our house of parliament is female we'll
also talk about Zimbabwe where the
figure is about 32% in the lower house
and 44% in the Senate and for this we're
joined from Bulawayo Zimbabwe by the
journalists Tendai my Reema
she writes regularly for outlets
including al-jazeera attend a welcome
hello thank you for having me a new show
well it's a pleasure let's start by
talking about Rwanda there were
parliamentary elections there in
September women won more than 60% of the
seats it seems like there's sort of a
positive story to tell about women's
participation there Rwanda we should say
does have I think it's a 30 percent
quota for women in Parliament yes is one
country that's an exception in the sense
that there is greater political
visibility of women and in the elections
that were held just now in September
about 68% of the parliamentarians that
were elected are female so that's
something that's quite significant and
it's not often a situation that you
might find in Africa or even in other
parts of the world and so has this had
sort of a significant impact on Rwandan
society on laws for women I think in
some sense yes it has in terms of trying
to push through laws that are sensitive
towards domestic violence and also in
ensuring that women's parliamentary
representation remains as it is however
I think the challenges that they may
face is in ensuring that the policies
that are the government crafts our
senses are also gender sensitive because
that's the majority of the population
and the second challenge that is also
faced up in a country of Rwanda is also
question of financial inclusion even
though women may be politically
represented they still this question of
financial inclusion and how to extend or
to increase women's economic
participation so that they play a
greater role in the country's economy so
in other words in part Rwanda it is a
relatively poor country but it's still
very often the men that control the
money in the family but I want to ask
you just a bit more about the parliament
because rwanda has also been rule
by president Paul Kagame essentially
since his army took over following the
genocide back in 1994
he's a very strict authoritarian ruler
so are these women in Parliament do they
actually affect public policy or are
they there more as window dressing for
an authoritarian ruler who happens to be
a man I think in some sense is yes
because women have been able to push
through certain changes like for example
like I've said them in the area of
domestic violence or trying to shape
certain policies that are sensitive
towards the needs for public health
system and also sensitivity towards the
elderly however in some areas it doesn't
seem to be that case that women have
that much power because in the example
of you know opposition voices that have
risen up against Paul Kagame the
parliamentarians themselves haven't had
much of a say in in in sort of trying to
prevent some of the things that have
happened like their risks of female
opposition critics that have dead have
spoken out against President Kagame
that's right actually I believe you
interviewed this woman's rights activist
named Diane lugar who tried to run
against Kagame and presidential
elections a year ago but because our
time grows short let me move us to
Zimbabwe talk to us about how quotas
operate in your home country
okay you have a completely different
situation although we have a
constitution that was drafted and put
into law in 2013 that provides that
women should have a 50% representation
in Parliament right now we had elections
in July of 2020 18 and what we've had is
that only 26 of the women were were
chosen into Parliament and the rest of
the women who they were in make up a
total of about 118 parliamentarians and
most of those women brought in through
the proportional representation seat we
should explain this under Zimbabwe
system from this 2013 Constitution
something like 60 seats and a 270 person
Parliament were specifically set aside
for women then
yes the assess the situation but the
reality on the ground is that women are
not being elected into positions of
power but most of the women are getting
in through this proportional
representation seat which were only
which which only has a life of two terms
so by 2023 this this policy is going to
become extinct okay and so so it sounds
like it's sort of mixed results there in
this effort to achieve sort of a 50
percent female Parliament there because
as you mentioned women have only won a
small share of sort of competitive seats
so far yes yes definitely there's only a
small number of women that have been
elected into Parliament and there are
Christians where the Parliament should
still continue with this policy beyond
2023 although women's groups are pushing
for it and they are trying to show that
there is a need for it among
parliamentarians there really is a very
lacks attitude and you know I think the
case has to be really presented to them
very strongly as to why this is right
the continuation of the jay baer what
are some of the challenges for women
running for Parliament in Zimbabwe like
are there some stereotypes yes certainly
because the way that some women are
repeated for example in the media or
even just amongst ordinary citizens
themselves a woman who represents
herself in Parliament is seen as who
runs for office is seen as too strong
too outspoken she's too much of a
feminist or if a woman is strongly
critical of government it can get to
situations where a woman is actually
slandered and caused and caught a name
such as a prostitute or and we saw
this happening
continuously in the run-up to this
year's electoral campaigns particularly
towards presidential candidates and also
towards the head of the Election
Commission happens to be a woman she
again was lauded because the results
were described as being fraudulent and
not in favor of those who were
supporting the opposition said although
the opposition is a greater voice for
democracy in Zimbabwe there are still
people that are very sexist as well and
it sounds like in Rwanda
women who run for office may face
similar types of pressure yes certainly
because we saw this in the case of dan
regatta
when she was running as a presidential
candidate in last year's presidential
elections as soon as she announced her
candidacy there were pictures of her
that were leaked online nude pictures of
her you know just in a way to sort of
you know give her a bad reputation and
make her seem like she wasn't fit for
office you know however she's a very
strong character and she said you know
she wasn't going to be weakened by
threats such as that and you know she
forged ahead and did a file for for
defending the elections although in the
end she wasn't able to run because her
candidacy was disqualified on other
terms
well tender Marina thank you so much for
taking the time to join us thank you
a reminder that you're tuned in to
global journalists I'm Jason McClure on
today's program we're talking about
quotas for women in politics a
phenomenon that has spread to at least
66 countries over the past 25 years now
to broaden our discussion we're gonna
bring in two researchers who have
studied this issue closely joining us
from Los Angeles is Jennifer Piscopo a
professor of politics at Occidental
College Jennifer welcome thank you good
morning thank you for having me and with
us from Bath England is Anna Catalano
weeks a professor of comparative
politics at the University of Bath Donna
welcome well Jennifer if I could start
with you you've done a lot of research
on gender quotas in Latin America I
think it was Argentina was the first
Latin American country to require these
back in the early 1990s tell us how
these came about and sort of how this
idea spread sure so many Latin American
countries had recent transitions to
democracy and so one countries of
transition to democracy in the modern
era there has been a lot of discourse
about the importance of equality
particularly gender equality as a key
plank in being democratic and so many
women in Latin American countries who
had participated in the democratic
transitions in their countries were able
to leverage those discourses introduced
quotas as part of the democratic reforms
and say we have
hittin the social movements the civil
society protests that led to
democratization the political parties
are reforming we now want those seats at
the table for electoral politics and
that this is important to do because in
becoming democratic we need to
demonstrate our commitments to being
equal and having equality in society and
so Argentina was the first but many
Latin American countries quickly
followed and they virtually they spread
to virtually all of South America most
of Central America Mexico as well but
let me turn this to Anna Catalano weeks
you've done some research on why
political parties led and controlled by
men would choose to enact gender quotas
what what did you find to be the
rationale since it would seem to be sort
of like self-defeating for male
politicians to set quotas for women yeah
it's this interesting puzzle because
sort of unlike in the case of South
America or Central America Europe has
seen kind of a more tempered spread of
gender quotas and there's a lot of
voluntary political party quotas but not
all countries have adopted laws so
there's this question of well you know
what motivates party leaders to adopt
them and at the end of the day in Europe
it's been all male party leaders who had
kind of the final word and we're the
ones responsible for pushing the
provisioning through and my research
uncovered two different strategic
reasons why it could be beneficial and
of course you know men can be feminists
too they can support gender equality and
quotas for that reason but there are
also certain conditions under which
passing a quota law can be beneficial
for their political party and one of
those is if there's a rising competitor
on the left so one of these sort of new
Left parties or Green Party is gaining a
lot of traction and perceived to be
stealing votes from perhaps a mainstream
live social democratic party my argue
this was the case in Portugal before
they passed a gender quota law and
another reason it could be that actually
a party wants to implement a voluntary
political party quota and they think
that doing so would make it more
appealing to more constituents but
because of the way kin selection works
it's controlled by
local level and local sort of mail party
leaders are not receptive to the
voluntary quota they won't actually
comply with it passing a law can be the
only way to get their own party to make
significant changes then again we're
talking about systems similar to what
also was talking about in Sweden where
political parties are choosing the
candidates and that's sort of a major
distinction from the United States then
but Jennifer if I could move this back
to you what kind of quota laws have you
seen to be effective and which ones have
haven't worked you know we heard we
heard some of Tendai talking about sort
of the mixed results in Zimbabwe and
Rwanda so on the idea that political
election systems will differ from the
United States so in Latin America most
of the election systems are similar to
Europe the parties are running lists of
candidates and in most cases voters will
simply choose the party so the party
creates the list the list is presented
as a done deal to voters and voters just
say I want this party and therefore I
get that list versus the other party so
a really important aspect of quota laws
is that they not simply require that
political parties run the specified
percentage of candidates whether that be
30 40 or 50 percent but that they
require as awesome mentioned that women
be placed and what we call the electable
list positions so they be alternated
with the male names because of course if
you let the parties run the specified
percentage of women but then cluster
their names at the bottom of the list
the parties would have to win a lot of
the vote to get to those lower list
positions so having the alternation of
men's and women's names on the list has
been absolutely critical in Latin
America for turning the proportion of
candidates into the proportion of women
elected and that has also been true not
just in Latin America but in other
countries where the quota is introduced
with these list systems well on if I
could ask you opponents of these laws
have a number of criticisms one is that
this practice of setting aside seats for
a certain gender is fundamentally
undemocratic because it denies the
opportunity for men to contest these
seats another is that women who win
these seats won't be seen as having
gotten there
their own merit how do you respond to
those criticisms yeah this is really
popular probably the most common
argument you see against gender quotas
so you saw it again with the recent
legislation that was passed in
California for corporate board quotas
this this contention that well it's
gonna lead to less qualified candidates
for office and I think you have to
really think about what's your
definition of merit if you think that's
the case there's been actually a lot of
research done on this in many different
countries I've done research on the case
of Italy with my co-author Lisa Valdez
and there's been research done in France
in different a lot of different
countries around the world which finds
that no matter kind of which
qualifications we look at education
professional background previous
experience within the party etc the
women who come in through the quota laws
are just as qualified as a man and in
fact my research in the case of Italy
showed that you know subsequent to their
election the quota women who came in
were actually more competent in office
in the sense that they were their
attendance levels were higher so they
were more likely to actually show up to
the Parliament and do their jobs so I
think that it's really unfounded and we
should consider that you know if we
think that there are equal top equal
talent pools for both men and women and
then we should question you know this
this idea that there it is the thing
that women quarters gonna lead to less
qualified candies for office well
Jennifer Piscopo if you could pick up on
this in the United States of course this
idea of gender quotas in politics seems
not to have much traction even as it's
spread sort of globally why why do you
think that is what do you think people
in the u.s. seem to view things
differently I think there's a technical
reason and then there's a normative
reason and so the technical reason is
that gender quotas would be difficult in
the United States given the uniqueness
of our election system so in the United
States
anybody can step forward and become a
candidate candidates Reggio them
register themselves with the local
Election Commission and
really have very little control over who
steps forward and says I'm a Democrat I
want to run for office or I'm a
Republican and I want to run for office
and the vast majority of other countries
parties register the candidates parties
control the candidates in primaries that
are often closed just to the parties so
they're not these open primaries the way
we think of them in the United States it
wouldn't be very feasible to try to
control how many men or women go into
congressmen really anyone can run and
anyone can vote for whom they choose to
in the u.s. then exactly we could think
about ways to introduce those kinds of
controls but they would require a lot
more building on some deep-seated norms
about how our election system works
I think the second reason is in the
United States we have a particular
historical background around affirmative
action we have a particular set of
anxieties about it that come out of a
history of racial discrimination in the
US and so we think about affirmative
action in in different ways and in very
contentious ways now to underscore what
honest said there really is no grounds
for the criticism that quotas bring
forward less qualified women in the
United States and in other countries we
see that women were 50% of political
party members women were extremely
active in politics the difficulty very
similar to the corporate environment was
being selected to stand for a powerful
position because of course those
positions are largely held by men and
they want to preserve their power by
having folks like them but I do think
given the United States's racial history
and the very difficult conversations
around that affirmative action for women
has also been a very difficult
conversation and Latin America for
instance benefiting groups based on
their identity be it race via gender is
a much more accepted part of how they
think democracy and social democracy and
equality and fairness work so even
though there is contention over quotas
and affirmative action there is a higher
level of understanding that there is
structural discrimination against groups
and that the law can be used to remedy
that discrimination in the United States
that's much more contested well on a
week's our time does grow short do you
see that these sorts of laws
are something that might be likely to be
needed sort of indefinitely in a number
of countries or is the idea that they
will face out over time we heard AUSA
talking about the case of Sweden which
of course is ranked as one of the most
sort of gender equal nations nations in
the world and yet also saw the need for
these sorts of quotas these rules to
continue yeah I think we're not there
that yet I think that ideally in the in
in the perfect world we wouldn't we
wouldn't need any quotas but we have to
think about inequality in the household
in the workforce and in politics as sort
of things that are intertwined and so
it's just for me you know just so long
as you know there are unequal caretaking
roles in society and unequal positions
of power in the workforce this suggests
to me that we're still going to need
those quotas for women in politics for
sometimes it comes it basically in the
future when you can see a world in which
men women take on all kind of
responsibilities equally then you think
well there wouldn't be any need for a
quota because there shouldn't be that
discrimination and being selected or
coming forward but but I don't think
we're there yet and you know and also
political parties once they must they
have a quarter don't seem to mind it so
even parties of the far-right that I
spoke to in Belgium for example they're
happy the law was implemented now they
think it's improved the political party
even though they were very much against
it at first well we're out of time for
this edition of global journalists a
production of the Reynolds journalism
Institute at the Missouri School of
Journalism and KBI a mid Missouri Public
Radio many thanks to also Eric psin
Tendai marina jennifer Piscopo and anna
Catalano weeks our assistant producers
this week are Elliott bellman and
Shirley Tay our supervising producer is
Yan Chi Xu with visual editor Maggie
Duncan Erinn Hayes audio engineer Travis
McMillan is director I'm Jayson McClure
thanks for tuning in
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