Who created God? | John Lennox at UCLA

Summary

The transcript addresses profound questions about the nature of God, creation, and the universe. It explores the challenges faced by materialists regarding the universe's beginning and tackles the classic question of 'Who created God?' The speaker emphasizes that the Christian claim is that God is eternal, not created. They discuss mysteries in Christianity, like the Trinity, and compare them to unexplained scientific concepts like consciousness and energy. The discussion highlights how both science and faith deal with mysteries and argues that belief in God provides a coherent explanation for existence.

Takeaways

• 🌌 The speaker discusses the difficulty of understanding the concept of a beginning in a materialistic universe, referencing the Big Bang theory and the age-old question of what preceded it.
• 🤔 The question of what created God is explored, with the suggestion that it implies a misunderstanding of God as being created rather than uncreated or eternal.
• 🕰️ The concept of God being outside of time is mentioned, which is a way to express the incomprehensibility of God's nature to humans.
• 🔄 The speaker points out that the question 'who created God?' is a form of begging the question, as it assumes that everything must have a creator.
• 📚 Reference is made to religious texts, particularly the Gospel of John, to support the idea that God was not created but 'already was'.
• 🔢 The Trinity is acknowledged as a mystery, and the speaker uses the example of consciousness and energy to illustrate that there are many things we accept as real without fully understanding them.
• 👥 The speaker shares a personal analogy of marriage to explain the concept of the Trinity, suggesting that God is a fellowship of persons, which is a mystery but also magnificent.
• 🧠 The debate with Richard Dawkins is mentioned, highlighting the challenge of asking who created the universe if one believes that the universe created us.
• 🔬 The speaker emphasizes the explanatory power of concepts like God, even if we cannot fully comprehend them, drawing a parallel to scientific concepts like energy.
• 💡 The idea that God is not a solitary being but a community is presented as a profound mystery that offers a deeper understanding of God's nature.

Q & A

What is one of the main challenges materialists face regarding the origin of the universe?

Materialists often struggle with the concept of a beginning to the universe, as they are confronted with the question of what caused the initial cause. The Big Bang theory suggests the universe started at a certain point, but this leads to further questions about what initiated that event.

How does Christianity address the question of who created God?

Christianity claims that God is eternal and uncreated. Therefore, the question 'Who created God?' does not apply because God is considered to exist outside of time and was not brought into being.

What was Augustine's perspective on God's relationship to time?

Augustine argued that God exists outside of time. This explanation addresses the question of creation but is often difficult to fully comprehend because humans have no experience of what it means to exist outside of time.

How does the speaker respond to the idea that Christian mysteries, such as the Trinity, are just ways of saying 'we don't know'?

The speaker acknowledges that Christian mysteries, like the Trinity, are difficult to understand. However, he argues that just because something is mysterious doesn’t mean it lacks explanatory power. Mysteries like energy and consciousness are also not fully understood, yet they are accepted due to their explanatory power.

How does the speaker handle Richard Dawkins' argument from 'The God Delusion' regarding the creation of God?

The speaker counters Dawkins' argument by stating that asking 'Who created God?' assumes that God is created, which contradicts the Christian claim that God is eternal and uncreated. He also flips the argument by asking Dawkins who created the universe, which Dawkins claims created us, to highlight the limits of the question.

What analogy does the speaker use to help explain the Christian concept of the Trinity?

The speaker uses the analogy of marriage, where two people become 'one flesh' to illustrate a sense of unity and fellowship. He suggests that similarly, God is not a singular entity but a fellowship of three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), which reflects the unity within the Trinity.

Why does the speaker believe in concepts like consciousness and energy even though their true nature is unknown?

The speaker believes in these concepts because of their explanatory power. Although their exact nature is a mystery, their ability to explain various phenomena makes them valid beliefs, much like how the mystery of the Trinity explains certain aspects of Christian faith.

What distinction does the speaker draw between created things and uncreated things?

The speaker highlights that the Christian view distinguishes between created things (which 'came to be') and the uncreated (which 'already was'). God, according to Christianity, falls into the category of the uncreated, as God has always existed.

How does the speaker respond to a physicist’s critique of the Trinity as irrational?

The speaker turns the critique back on the physicist by asking if he knows what energy or consciousness truly are. When the physicist admits that he doesn’t know, the speaker argues that just because we don’t fully understand something doesn’t mean it isn’t real or rational.

What conclusion does the speaker reach about mysteries in science and religion?

The speaker concludes that mysteries are present in both science and religion. Just as scientists accept mysterious concepts like energy due to their usefulness, Christians can accept mysteries like the Trinity because they provide a coherent explanation for religious experiences and beliefs.

Outlines

00:00

🌌 The Question of God's Creation and Time

In this paragraph, the speaker discusses the dilemma faced by materialists regarding the beginning of the universe. They touch on the Big Bang theory and Christianity's longstanding belief in creation, leading to a common question: 'If everything has a cause, what created God?' Augustine's explanation that God exists outside of time is mentioned, although it is acknowledged that the concept of being 'outside time' is hard to comprehend. The speaker explores the mystery of the Christian Trinity—how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit can be three and yet one—and reflects on the limitations of human understanding when grappling with these deep theological mysteries.

05:01

❓ The Philosophical Challenge of 'Who Created God?'

Here, the speaker delves into the frequently posed question 'Who created God?', especially popularized by Richard Dawkins in his book *The God Delusion*. They recount how this question is flawed, as it assumes God is a created entity, which contradicts the central Christian claim that God is uncreated and eternal. The speaker shares experiences from debating this issue with scientists and intellectuals, highlighting the distinction between created things and things that have always existed. They also turn the question back on Dawkins, asking, 'Who created your creator?' This section emphasizes that the question itself misunderstands the fundamental nature of God.

10:03

🔢 The Mystery of the Trinity and Its Explanatory Power

The speaker now tackles the concept of the Trinity—how God can be three in one—and reflects on the mystery surrounding this Christian doctrine. They share an anecdote about a physicist questioning how a mathematician can believe in the Trinity. In response, the speaker asks the physicist to explain consciousness and energy, noting that even though we don't fully understand these concepts, we still believe in them because of their explanatory power. Similarly, while we can't fully comprehend the mystery of the Trinity, it makes sense of the evidence of God's nature. The speaker compares the unity of God to the unity of marriage, where two people become one, suggesting that this analogy hints at the greater reality of God's relational nature.

🤝 God as a Fellowship, Not a Monolith

In this concluding paragraph, the speaker reflects on the idea of God as a fellowship rather than a solitary being. They propose that the concept of the Trinity—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—suggests that God is not alone or in need of creation for companionship. Instead, God's nature is inherently relational, existing as a fellowship within himself. This mystery, though beyond human understanding, reveals a significant aspect of God's character. The paragraph closes by promoting the Veritas Forum, encouraging listeners to explore further recordings and events.

Keywords

💡Materialistic Universe

The term 'materialistic universe' refers to the philosophical viewpoint that the universe is solely composed of physical matter and governed by natural laws, without supernatural involvement. In the video, this concept is challenged by contrasting it with Christian beliefs, which hold that the universe was created by a divine being. The speaker highlights that the question of the universe's beginning is a key difficulty for those who hold a materialistic worldview.

💡Big Bang Theory

The 'Big Bang Theory' is a scientific explanation of the origin of the universe, suggesting it began from a singular, extremely dense point and expanded. The speaker mentions it in the context of how Christianity and modern science both claim that the universe had a beginning, and the Big Bang aligns with the idea of a creation moment, sparking questions about what existed before the Big Bang or what caused it.

💡Uncaused Cause

An 'uncaused cause' refers to the philosophical idea that there must be something that caused everything else but was not itself caused by anything. This concept is used to explain God in the video, where the speaker discusses how Christians argue that God, unlike the universe, is eternal and uncreated, thus not requiring a cause. This idea is contrasted with the infinite regress problem, where one could keep asking what caused the cause, leading to no satisfactory explanation.

💡Mystery

'Mystery' in this context refers to theological concepts that cannot be fully understood or explained by human reasoning. The speaker points out that Christianity often invokes mystery to address difficult questions, such as the nature of the Trinity (three persons in one God) or how God could become human in the form of Jesus. The use of mystery is seen as both a strength and a limitation, as it leaves certain things beyond explanation.

💡Trinity

The 'Trinity' is a central Christian doctrine that describes God as three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—yet one in essence. The speaker discusses the difficulty in understanding this concept, acknowledging it as a mystery. The Trinity challenges human logic because it suggests God is simultaneously three and one, which appears contradictory but is fundamental to Christian belief.

💡Created God

The term 'created God' is a misconception often posed in questions like 'Who created God?' The speaker explains that Christianity rejects the idea of a created God, asserting that God is eternal and uncreated. The concept is brought up to refute the argument often made by atheists, like Richard Dawkins, that if everything needs a creator, God must also have one. However, the Christian position is that God exists outside of time and creation.

💡Consciousness

'Consciousness' is brought up as an example of something that scientists acknowledge exists but cannot fully explain. The speaker uses this as an analogy to justify belief in the mysteries of God, comparing the unexplained nature of consciousness to the unexplained aspects of the divine. The point is that just because something is not fully understood does not mean it isn’t real or valid.

💡Energy

'Energy' is discussed similarly to consciousness—while it can be measured and used, its true essence remains unknown to scientists. The speaker uses energy to argue that there are many concepts in both science and theology that we accept despite not fully understanding. This supports the idea that mysteries like the nature of God or the Trinity can be accepted on the basis of their explanatory power, even if they are beyond complete human comprehension.

💡Fellowship

'Fellowship' in this context refers to the relationship within the Trinity, where God exists in a perfect, loving communion of three persons. The speaker contrasts this with a 'monolith' or a solitary being, suggesting that God's nature is inherently relational. This concept is used to illustrate that God’s existence as a Trinity reflects a deeper, communal nature, which is a key part of Christian theology.

💡Explanatory Power

'Explanatory power' refers to the ability of a theory or belief to make sense of observed phenomena or experiences. The speaker uses this term to argue why belief in the mysteries of God is justified. Even though humans cannot fully understand concepts like the Trinity or God becoming human, these beliefs offer the best explanation for certain spiritual and existential questions, much like how science accepts certain unknowns because of their practical explanatory value.

Highlights

The Big Bang theory supports the idea that the universe started at a specific time, aligning with Christianity's claim that the universe was created.

The question of 'Who created God?' is commonly posed but assumes God is a created being, which contradicts the Christian belief that God is eternal and uncreated.

Richard Dawkins raises the question of who created God in his book 'The God Delusion,' but the Christian view posits that God is outside the realm of created entities.

John's Gospel introduces the idea that 'in the beginning was the Word,' emphasizing that God has always existed and is not part of the created order.

Greek philosophy differentiated between created things and things that have always existed, and the Christian claim is that God is one of the latter.

The question 'Who created your creator?' can be turned back on materialistic views, such as Dawkins', which claim that the universe created humans.

God being 'three in one' is acknowledged as a mystery within Christianity, though it's not unique for important concepts to be mysterious (e.g., energy and consciousness).

A physicist may not fully understand energy or consciousness, yet believes in their existence due to their explanatory power, which can be analogized to belief in God.

Belief in God, despite mystery, can be justified by the explanatory power of the concept, much like belief in energy or consciousness in science.

The analogy of marriage is used to illustrate the Christian concept of God as three in one: just as a married couple is two persons in one flesh, God is three persons in one entity.

The concept of the Trinity shows that God is not a monolithic being but a fellowship, which reflects a profound and mysterious aspect of the divine nature.

The Christian view of the Trinity emphasizes relationality within God's nature, suggesting God was never lonely, even before creating humans.

The challenge of explaining the Trinity reflects the broader difficulty in understanding deep mysteries about reality, whether in theology or science.

Many scientific concepts, like energy and consciousness, are accepted without complete understanding, similar to theological concepts like the Trinity.

The speaker emphasizes that Christianity doesn't offer simplistic answers but rather engages with profound mysteries, much like science.

Transcripts

one of the most basic difficulties for

those who hold the view of the

materialistic universe is the question

of a beginning and as you pointed out

before uh Christianity has long claimed

that the Universe was created and now we

have the big bang big bang theory that

suggests at least that it started as at

a certain time and um

and

yet then there's always the issue yes

but I if there can't be an uncaused

cause then what created God uh and uh

and and I guess Christianity perhaps

gives different answers to that as I

understand it Augustine's answer was

that uh God is outside time and in a way

that's a good answer but it seems to me

that that's a way of saying we don't

know what the explanation is because

none of us has the slightest idea of

what it means to be outside time or

Christianity says that the father and

the Son and the Holy Spirit are three

but they are one and from those

statements many wonderful things follow

and yet it seems to be a way of saying

we don't know what it is because we have

no idea of what it means to be three and

to be one and how uh a God as powerful

and as amazing let's say as the god of

job

could appear in the form as a human

being and be the holy spirit so so my

point is this and as I say I think this

may be a strength or a weakness but it

does seem as if many of the difficult

questions are just explained by

Mysteries which is a Christian word uh

that uh that in a way are saying we

don't

know so I don't know if that's a whether

that's a challenge or a suggestion or

help it's a wonderful challenge but I'd

be interested in your response to it yes

yes I I I I love this particular uh

thing and I've had to think about it a

great deal because of course it's is

absolutely obvious that um replacing one

Mystery by another is not always a

helpful Way Forward sometimes it might

be yeah well let let well it's a more

sensible mystery um let's let's unpack

this because there are three or four

questions which is why I wrote them down

because with my dying brains I can't

remember everything but let's come to

that first question which has interested

me because it's become a great Focus

recently um both in North America and

Britain and in Europe everybody's

talking about it I thought I'd left it

behind in Russia and that's the question

who created

God and Dawkins has made it the heart of

his book The God Delusion I was

staggered when I find it there what I

mean about Russia ladies and gentlemen

is I used to get this all the time in

the Academy of Sciences when I was

traveling out to Russia in the in the in

the late 1980s the early 1990s you see

that it was almost the first question if

you believe that God created the

universe then logically you've got to

ask the question who created God and

then you have to ask who created the god

that created the god that created the

god the created God the created God and

so on ADD

infinitum and that was the of God of

course and that's exactly what Dawkin

says in The God

Delusion well let's analyze it for a

moment who created

God if you ask that question it shows

you've

immediately categorized God as

created so you're talking about a

created God now you imagine if Richard

Dawkins had written a book called The

created God's delusion I don't think

many people would have bought it because

I don't need him to tell me that created

gods are a delusion we usually call them

Idols

incidentally but you see this

question this this this question is

extremely interesting because it's an

illustration of a question that

already rules out the explanation that's

most likely to be true because the

Christian claim is that God wasn't

created so if God was

uncreated in the beginning was the word

and I'm coming to your three and one now

and I'm bringing it in obliquely in the

beginning was the word the word was with

God and the Word was God he already

was so the Central Christian claim is

and in Judaism and Islam of course

equally is that God is eternal so the

question by definition doesn't even

apply to

him and that's immensely

important the only way you can get

anything out of it then in the negative

sense is to assume that everything is in

the category of the created but that's

just begging the original question and

the Greeks were interested in it and

that's why John's gospel starts with

those words in the beginning the word

already was and then it says all things

came to be through him the Greeks were

interested in a question of two

categories the things that came to be

the created things and the things that

already were and the the question

resolves down to this is there a thing

or a being that never came to be and

that is the Christian claim and he's

called God but there's a little cissal

to this you see Richard Dawkins and I

had a debate with him on this very Topic

in Oxford and uh I said said to him

Richard you say that who created God is

a legitimate question I don't think it

is but let me assume now that it

is you believe that the universe created

you so I beg leave now to ask you using

your own question who created your

creator I'm waiting still for the

answer so that's the first point very

briefly to the second Point God is three

in one is it a mystery yes it is and am

I allowed to tell a little story yeah

think we should we on okay but do tell

the story yeah yeah yeah yeah I was

talking to about a thousand scientists

and a man came up to me afterwards uh

physicist and he said that was very

interesting all that talk about God but

he said do you know I detect you're a

Christian and I said

you're very astute

gentleman well that's what I said I said

you're pretty sharp and he said he said

come off it he said now look as a

Christian you're obliged to

believe that God is a

trunity that Jesus was God and

man and he said no come on you're a

mathematician at Oxford this is absurd

can you explain it to

me well I said can I ask you a question

first he said sure so I said tell me

what is

consciousness and he thought for a

second and then he said I don't know I

said that's okay let me try an easier

one what is

energy well he said I'm a physicist I

can measure energy I could use it I said

you know that's not my question what is

it he said I don't know oh I said that's

very interesting you don't know tell me

I said um do you believe in

Consciousness yes he said

do you believe in energy yes he said so

I said you believe in these two things

you don't know what they

are I said should I write you off as an

intellectual and he said please don't

and I said but that's exactly what you

were going to do with me five minutes

ago now I said if you don't know what

energy is and nobody does and if you

don't believe that you physicist read

Richard

feeman if you don't know what energy is

don't be

surprised if energy light

gravity and Consciousness are a mystery

don't be surprised if you're going to

get an element of this in God you're

bound to get it but now I pushed him a

bit further you see and I

said why do you believe in these things

if you don't know what they

are and that was a bit difficult so

being kind chap I try to help him out

and I said um you believe in these

things because of their explanatory

power as Concepts and he said that's

exactly right now I said look of course

I can't explain to you how God became

human but I said it's the only

explanation that makes sense of the

evidence as I see it now I said I've got

a simple analogy that might help you

it's a very low-level analogy but at

least is

biblical I'm married

I've been married for 42 and a half

years to the same person and

uh

and my wife and I are in a sense

one we're two persons in one flesh the

Bible would say but in one

unit and it seems to me that at the very

least don't misunderstand me when I say

this that this mystery is telling

something Magnificent about God God is

not a monolith who to put it crudely was

lonely so he made a few people so he

could have somebody to talk

to God is himself a

fellowship now that's undimensioned and

we can't grasp it but there is a sense

in which I I feel it's got to be

something like that

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